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Joe45
01-23-2008, 12:05 AM
How many of you are allowed to carry off duty by your department or carry under conceal weapons permit?

My Department does not allow, so would have to carry by permit.

kcsd823
01-23-2008, 12:16 AM
We are allowed to carry since ALL are sworn deputy sheriffs. This includes patrol, Corrections, Court Security, and Animal Control for example.

Stewie
01-23-2008, 12:41 AM
I carry my Glock 19 off-duty and I am a Sworn in Deputy.

TX_CO
01-23-2008, 01:23 AM
We take the oath of office at graduation (or did when I went to the academy), but in order to carry off duty we have to get a handgun license (we hire 18 year olds). There are a lot of my coworkers that I would not want to see with a weapon on or off duty.

VtCO84
01-23-2008, 01:32 AM
We aren't sworn peace officers, but in Vermont you don't even need a concealed weapon permit (scary huh?). I've been thinking about picking a sidearm for off duty, any suggestions?

Kokoro
01-23-2008, 03:54 AM
We take the oath of office at graduation (or did when I went to the academy), but in order to carry off duty we have to get a handgun license (we hire 18 year olds). There are a lot of my coworkers that I would not want to see with a weapon on or off duty.

+1000

bcdep1799
01-23-2008, 04:06 AM
Sworn Deputy, yes I carry off-duty.

Kokoro
01-23-2008, 04:48 AM
I cannot carry on my correctional officer status as state correctional officers are not considered law enforcement in IN. I am allowed to carry on my credentials of being a reserve police officer.

NJPrisonCop
01-23-2008, 06:44 AM
NJDOC has full arrest powers. We carry. I carry as much as I can. Can never be too safe.

Iowa #1603
01-23-2008, 07:47 AM
Iowa-
NO we are not LEO's in IOwa
Many officers have ccw permits but here it is totally up to the county sheriff where you live if he wants to give you a permit. One of our weapons instructors lives in a county where the sheriff refuses to give out permits.
I don't carry myself. I could get a permit if I wanted one based on my prior LEO status but choose not to.

"There are a lot of my coworkers that I would not want to see with a weapon on or off duty." +1001
Unfortunately a few of them live in a neghboing county where the sheriff gives them out like candy....especially if they work in corrections!

VtCo
01-23-2008, 12:09 PM
We aren't sworn peace officers, but in Vermont you don't even need a concealed weapon permit (scary huh?). I've been thinking about picking a sidearm for off duty, any suggestions?

Scary? No.

Not to hijack, but VT not only has the least restrictive gun laws in the us, we also happen to be the 2nd lowest state with violent crimes (I believe Maine has us beat, but only because no one actually lives there).

I always carry everywhere I go when I'm not in the facility. It's not so much because I'm afraid of running into a former inmate on the streets, but because I know that to become an inmate you must commit a crime first. I don't want to be the person that they commit said crime on to become an inmate.

d10mack
01-23-2008, 12:33 PM
post-deleted

d10mack
01-23-2008, 12:54 PM
post-deleted

VtCO84
01-23-2008, 01:13 PM
Scary? No.

Not to hijack, but VT not only has the least restrictive gun laws in the us, we also happen to be the 2nd lowest state with violent crimes (I believe Maine has us beat, but only because no one actually lives there).

I always carry everywhere I go when I'm not in the facility. It's not so much because I'm afraid of running into a former inmate on the streets, but because I know that to become an inmate you must commit a crime first. I don't want to be the person that they commit said crime on to become an inmate.

i thought it was a little weird, but you do make a valid point.

MDC74
01-24-2008, 08:15 PM
Yes, we carry on our badge. We are sworn Law Enforcement Officers here in Miami-Dade. And we fall under LEOSA (HR 218).

DAL
01-24-2008, 09:38 PM
Not to hijack, but VT not only has the least restrictive gun laws in the us, we also happen to be the 2nd lowest state with violent crimes (I believe Maine has us beat, but only because no one actually lives there).

I thought that some cities in Vermont do not allow the carrying of weapons, and there is no way to get a permit.

TexasAggieOfc
01-24-2008, 10:01 PM
In Texas, most COs are not peace officers. However, in the last Legislature, they expanded the "castle doctrine" and now any person in Texas who is not a convicted felon, member of a criminal street gang, or convicted batterer can carry a gun concealed in their car and concealed on their person while going from their home to their car, as long as the person is not committing an offense other than a traffic offense.

DAL
01-24-2008, 10:45 PM
In Texas, most COs are not peace officers.

Even if you are not classified as a peace officer, you may fall under HR 218, which only requires that you have the authority to make arrests and carry firearms while on duty.

Besides, you're in Texas. Why would any police officer care about your carrying a gun? If you are a C.O., you must meet the standards for getting a permit anyway, so why make your spend the money?

TexasAggieOfc
01-24-2008, 11:52 PM
Most COs in Texas do not have the authority to make arrests because they do not hold a peace officer license under TxCCP 2.12 and they are not in another special classifcation. They do not have the authority to make arrests. Only certain jailers are authorized to carry firearms while on duty, but the Texas Penal Code only allows them to be certified to do so while in the 'actual discharge of duties'

As far as spending the money, if you don't have a CHL you can't carry other than in your car and to and from your car.

PJ06
01-25-2008, 12:46 PM
NJDOC has full arrest powers. We carry. I carry as much as I can. Can never be too safe.

Same here with NYSDOCS

PRIME EVIL
01-25-2008, 12:55 PM
We aren't sworn peace officers, but in Vermont you don't even need a concealed weapon permit (scary huh?). I've been thinking about picking a sidearm for off duty, any suggestions?

I don't carry alot, only when I go to a $h!thole area. We fall under the HR 218.

I have a Glock 30 (compact 45).

Graydog
01-25-2008, 06:44 PM
Ca. Corrections allows staff to carry provided they keep up their qualifications and of coarse carry their ID.

With your ID you can now carry across state lines with the revision of HR 218 last year.
I also have a state CCW where I now am retired and live.


Graydog,
Retired form CDC

Joe45
01-25-2008, 11:01 PM
Isn’t it interesting how some departments allow us can carry while “on duty” doing transports, working a tower or perimeter patrol, etc and have the same interest to “ protect the public”, But the same can not carry off duty with the department credentials.

Hack
01-26-2008, 01:16 AM
Bureau Of Prisons CCH on credentials while off duty in all States and US Territories. This is not only by Title 18 USC Sect 926B but also by BOP Director Memorandum to all Bureau staff members.

MI_CO
01-26-2008, 01:24 AM
We cant carry on cred's in MI we are not LEO's. One reason is because the MDOC hired ex cons years ago. But I can get a state ccw, I just havent gottin it yet.

Bowles
01-26-2008, 02:29 AM
There is some debate about our LEO status in NC. Depending upon which law you're reading we are or are not LEO's. We have no law enforcement powers outside of the facility, except for the arrest of an escaped inmate. However inside the facility we do "arrest" in the strictest sense of the word and charge inmates for crimes.
The official position of the NC Attorney Generals Office is we are Criminal Justice Officers. However we meet the qualifications to be considered as LEO under HB-218. It is the line in HB-218 which says "And has statutory powers of arrest" that causes me to question. We have only one as I said before, the arrest of an escaped inmate. Statutory as I am told by the NC AG's office means that there is some statue in law that gives you some power of arrest. My question has been is our sole arrest power enough to cover us under this Federal Law. I have fought this battle for about 3 years now trying to obtain a simple yes or no answer. I can accept a no if that is the answer but thus far I haven't even gotten that. I was told by the NC AG's office they could not interpret Federal Law. The US AG's office hasn't responded, and all my congressmen thanked me for writing them and asked me to contribute to their reelection campaigns.
Not wanting to be a test case I do not presume that I am covered under this law and do not carry under it.

Since I am also extremely stubborn and can not understand why I need to take a State approved firearms class for $100.00 minimum to obtain a CCW on my own when I already take a State approved firearms class every year with the DOC I do not have a CCW.

ford123
01-26-2008, 04:01 AM
Hello Big House people.

I just want to say I appreciate the work you do, and I certainly would not want to do it.

Bowles, your agency might never confirm that you are covered under LEOSA.
If you think about it, why should they? In thier eyes, it is only a liability.

With my agency, officers can carry off duty in all of the US. But they never spewed a peep on LEOSA. (of course it applies)

The law is really quite clear. Read it, and do not read things in to it.

It does not say how many laws you can enforce, on or off duty, only that you have Statutory Powers of Arrest. (amongst other criterea)

This law was passed for the individual LEO. It has nothing to do with any agency. It is a personal privilage, given by congress, signed by the president, = law. It is essentialy a federal CCW, for LEO's.

Hack
01-26-2008, 11:01 AM
Office of the Law Revision Counsel, U.S. House of Representatives
Home Search Download Classification Codification About

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-CITE-
18 USC Sec. 926B 01/02/2006

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS

-HEAD-
Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law
enforcement officers

-STATUTE-
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State
or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a
qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the
identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed
firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or
foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).
(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the
laws of any State that -
(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict
the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any
State or local government property, installation, building, base,
or park.

(c) As used in this section, the term "qualified law enforcement
officer" means an employee of a governmental agency who -
(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the
prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the
incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has
statutory powers of arrest;
(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the
agency;
(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which
require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a
firearm;
(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another
intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

(d) The identification required by this subsection is the
photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for
which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.
(e) As used in this section, the term "firearm" does not include -

(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National
Firearms Act);
(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this
title); and
(3) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this
title).

-SOURCE-
(Added Pub. L. 108-277, Sec. 2(a), July 22, 2004, 118 Stat. 865.)

-REFTEXT-
REFERENCES IN TEXT
Section 5845 of the National Firearms Act, referred to in subsec.
(e)(1), is classified to section 5845 of Title 26, Internal Revenue
Code.

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Home Search Download Classification Codification About
Office of the Law Revision Counsel, U.S. House of Representatives

Hack
01-26-2008, 11:14 AM
The above is the law that applies to LEO. If your agency doesn't back you and your State doesn't recognize you as LE, and you attempt to carry on the above law, you could be in a bushel of trouble for doing so, if caught by a LE in his/her jurisdiction. If the law in your State is vague on the subject of whether you are working in a LE position, then my suggestion would be for your union, or you yourself personally, or a group of people willing to share the expenses, have a lawyer look into it. This means looking for any applicable law, any applicable case ruling within your State judicial system courts of law. Then if there is still nothing to apply, my next thought would be that you work with your State legislative body to get a concrete law passed concerning your LE status.

As to not getting a CCW/CCH permit/license because of personal feelings concerning that, look at something from a different angle. If you were to have a disciplinary hearing that didn't come out in your favor, but was still allowed to keep your employment, you wouldn't be able to carry under LEOSA for the simple reason that you would be considered under punishment until the terms of your punishment was over with. You would need to carry under a CCW/CCH permit/license, even though you would otherwise be allowed to carry while in the performance of your duties, while on the clock.

jeaster
01-26-2008, 09:20 PM
I am a sworn Deputy Sheriff in Illinois. I have power of arrest on all County Property but our Sheriff will not allow us to carry off duty.

NYSJAILER2008
01-27-2008, 09:19 AM
I never knew so many sworn brother and sister officers could not carry off-duty on thier shield. What is up with this country? If you can carry and put your life on the on the job, you should be able to protect yourself and family off the job

TexasAggieOfc
01-27-2008, 12:52 PM
I never knew so many sworn brother and sister officers could not carry off-duty on thier shield. What is up with this country? If you can carry and put your life on the on the job, you should be able to protect yourself and family off the job

Texas State and most County COs are not sworn

Nebraska State COs are not sworn, though tey have the authority of arrest for loitering about a penal institution

Joe45
01-27-2008, 01:04 PM
That is why I started the topic to see how many Corrections Officers were in this boat. Trust me I believe in having to be qualified with the weapon in order to carry. With all the shootings that have been happing it would be nice to have some protection.

A few months ago a shooting happened in a mall in Omaha, Nebraska.. The mall had a sign out front “ no weapons allowed”. However those that are going to commit crimes like the shooter don’t really care what the sign says... So why cant a person who has had a background check for a CCW be allowed to carry ?

Now there is talk holding a place/someone responsible if something like this would happen and if weapons would not be allowed.

I will try to look for the article...And there talking nationwide CCW/CWP....

So does this mean if a known felon, who you supervised was to see you on the street, then assault or even kill you, does the agency have liability because they do not have or do not allow you to posses protection? After all a lot of Cos statues only reflect while they are on duty...

nemesis
01-27-2008, 01:57 PM
Where I live, it's not much of an issue. Most of the violent crime lately has been around the Quad Cities, especially Davenport. My county has been historically liberal in issuing CCW permits and I would have no problem acquiring one. Even the mouth warriors at my facility that talk about wanting to see me on the street totally change their tune when it actually happens, so that's not much of a concern either.

Jabrim
01-27-2008, 04:21 PM
I am always carrying off-duty, on a handful of times I can think of where I haven't carried. I look at it as simple as this, I'd rather carry and not need it than to not carry and end up needing it one day.

ICE Offcr
01-27-2008, 05:57 PM
DAL

I'm not sure they would qualify to carry, HR 218 says the have to also be authorized to carry by thier dept. HR 218 was mainly passed to allow local or state cops to carry across state lines as well as continue to carry after retirement. It was not designed to give those that do not have carry authority that authority.

`(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

`(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

`(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

ICE Offcr
01-27-2008, 06:04 PM
here is a good view of HR 218:

Okay, what is HR 218?

...an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).



For whom does HR 218 apply?

This law applies to persons who meet the definition listed below of a "Qualified Law Enforcement Officer."

qualified law enforcement officer means an employee of a governmental agency who--

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

`(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

`(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.



What kind of "Identification" is Necessary Under HR 218?

(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification [emphasis added] issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.



What Does HR 218 Prohibited me from Carrying?

(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

`(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

`(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

`(3) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).



What About us Retired Guys?

Yes, HR 218, the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act of 2004, applies to retired officers who meet the law's definition of "qualified retired law enforcement officer."



How does the Law Define "Qualified Retired LEO?"

(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified retired law enforcement officer' means an individual who--

`(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;

`(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;

`(3) (A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or

`(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

`(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;

`(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;

`(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.



What about Identification for Retired Officers?

(d) The identification required by this subsection is--

`(1) a photographic identification [emphasis added] issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

`(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and

`(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

RAMEDIRK
01-27-2008, 06:05 PM
I'm a DoD SA w/ OSI, according to HR 218 we should be able to carry off duty anywhere in the country but agency policies restricts it to no carry off duty.

ICE Offcr
01-27-2008, 06:28 PM
RAMEDIRK I'm a DoD SA w/ OSI, according to HR 218 we should be able to carry off duty anywhere in the country but agency policies restricts it to no carry off duty.

HR 218 then is your authority to carry even if agency policy says no. thats the way I read it. As long as you meet these qualifications:

`(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

`(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

`(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

robeans
01-27-2008, 08:00 PM
HR 218 then is your authority to carry even if agency policy says no. thats the way I read it. As long as you meet these qualifications:

Never go against department policy, that is just crazy talk right there.

ICE Offcr, are you arguing that CO's shouldn't be covered under HR218?

Most CO's meet all of the basic components of 218, that's why many are covered. I have the feeling this is all about are CO's LEO or are they not. I always refer people to the BOP. BOP CO's are more LEO than 75% of federal "LEO's" (meaning they get pay and retirement vs folks not getting reginized with such).

Anyway the topic of HR218 has been beat to hell down. Let it die, for the children.

Kokoro
01-27-2008, 09:02 PM
I tend to agree with robeans. This topic comes up quite frequently and it usually is an LEO that comes around and basically says the same thing. It may not be intentional, but it comes off as being a bit "I'm better than you" sounding

RAMEDIRK
01-27-2008, 11:52 PM
[QUOTE=robeans;1083074]Never go against department policy, that is just crazy talk right there.

DIDO--AGREE %1000

I'm not that foolish, if it is such a big deal I'd rather leave my agency than to defy it's policy

robeans
01-28-2008, 12:26 AM
[QUOTE=robeans;1083074]Never go against department policy, that is just crazy talk right there.

DIDO--AGREE %1000

I'm not that foolish, if it is such a big deal I'd rather leave my agency than to defy it's policy

BTW, I was really surprised that you guys aren't allowed to carry 24/7. Your considered federal agents with full arrest powers and the such right? Does it depend on being a GS or .mil? Hey, as long as you still get LEAP it's all good I guess.

I really thought about OSI when I was on active duty, but was really turned off by the desk time, kind of regret it now though.

frenchcamp49er
01-28-2008, 12:39 AM
We need a CCW

Borntexan
01-28-2008, 06:52 AM
Carry, you bet I do … with a very expensive CHL from the fine state of Texas. My Department does not allow CO’s to carry, we are not LEO’s. We cannot even carry with a CHL while in uniform, to or from work. Be careful to all who have a CHL or CCW, department policy shall over ride CHL or CCW laws if you remember in class. It takes a 10 hour class to obtain a CHL in Texas.

RAMEDIRK
01-28-2008, 10:40 AM
[QUOTE=RAMEDIRK;1083313]

BTW, I was really surprised that you guys aren't allowed to carry 24/7. Your considered federal agents with full arrest powers and the such right? Does it depend on being a GS or .mil? Hey, as long as you still get LEAP it's all good I guess.

I really thought about OSI when I was on active duty, but was really turned off by the desk time, kind of regret it now though.

Unfortunately there is a lot of desk time at every agency. Yer it is really a weird carry policy. I don't want to go into exact details but it's weird. It is discretionary carry policy but the exceptions restrict it so it isn't 24/7 carry. And OSI is a pretty conservative agency since the majority of our agents are military. Therefore your SAC can restrict your carry even more.

ICE Offcr
01-28-2008, 11:14 PM
No not at all. I too worked in the prisons and jails and I believe the corrections jobs is actually very desrving of the ability to carry off duty in some cases more deserving than a street cop.

The post as I put in was to show as long as you meet the guidelines established by federal law then you can carry off duty.

krushmoto
01-29-2008, 02:37 AM
I'm surprised how many CO's are not authorized to carry off-duty. But then again I was surprised that Ct. DOC does not have arrest powers.
Well those of us in NY all have arrest powers so we fall under HR 218. NYC DOC allows us to carry only authorized weapons off duty and that is after the Warden of the facility authorizes your request.

But in my opinion as a wise senior officer told me...."If you're on probation don't get a weapon. In this dept. if you get a gun allegation on probation you'll probably lose your job. Wait till you get off probation before getting any guns."

NYSJAILER2008
01-29-2008, 05:35 PM
I'm surprised how many CO's are not authorized to carry off-duty. But then again I was surprised that Ct. DOC does not have arrest powers.
Well those of us in NY all have arrest powers so we fall under HR 218. NYC DOC allows us to carry only authorized weapons off duty and that is after the Warden of the facility authorizes your request.

But in my opinion as a wise senior officer told me...."If you're on probation don't get a weapon. In this dept. if you get a gun allegation on probation you'll probably lose your job. Wait till you get off probation before getting any guns."
Same here with NYS DOC. They advise new CO's to wait 6-8 months for your Peace Officer Status to get registered with the DCJ or finish your 1 year probation. But unlike NYC DOC, we do not have to carry dept. issue off-duty firearms. We can purchase any sem-automatic handgun or pistol revolver we choose, and our captain and/or superintendent signs off on the form and sends it to NYS police pistol permit dept.

TexasAggieOfc
01-29-2008, 10:39 PM
Carry, you bet I do … with a very expensive CHL from the fine state of Texas. My Department does not allow CO’s to carry, we are not LEO’s. We cannot even carry with a CHL while in uniform, to or from work. Be careful to all who have a CHL or CCW, department policy shall over ride CHL or CCW laws if you remember in class. It takes a 10 hour class to obtain a CHL in Texas.

I'm under the assumption you and me work for the same boss. Here's my message on carrying a concealed weapon while in uniform. I WILL carry my weapon, concealed, on my person from my house to my vehicle. I WILL carry that weapon concealed in my vehicle. No, you may NOT see it, and unless you have lawfully stopped me for a traffic infraction, I will NOT tell you it's even in the car. It is none of HIS damn business if I have a concealed weapon in my vehicle. If HE wants to keep me from carrying it, he can post a 36.06 sign on the entrance to all county parking lots. I won't quit carrying it, but I'll go back to parking at a meter.

Borntexan
01-30-2008, 04:14 AM
If HE wants to keep me from carrying it, he can post a 36.06 sign on the entrance to all county parking lots. I won't quit carrying it, but I'll go back to parking at a meter.

...LOL...I park on a meter...!!!

Jabrim
01-30-2008, 09:30 AM
Well I know at my agency it is common practice to carry off-duty. Most supervisors actually recommend it, very few people I know don't actually carry off-duty.

VtCo
02-02-2008, 03:32 PM
I thought that some cities in Vermont do not allow the carrying of weapons, and there is no way to get a permit.

Nope, VT has complete preemption of all handgun laws. The state is the final and only authority on weapons, the city's, counties and villages can do nothing.

Also there is no way to get a permit because VT has no permits.

creolecop
02-02-2008, 05:28 PM
If your a LEO the state can't stop a LEO from carrying, Federal law says an Officer can carry concealed or otherwise anywhere in the U.S. and US territories.

Joe45
02-04-2008, 12:51 AM
This is why I am going to get my ccw. My department ( corrections) does not allow us to carry off duty on the badge. When dealing with felons in prison and needing to enforce prison rules, state and federal laws most dont like it and of course the first thing you hear is " im going to kick your a--, I am going to kill you and the family when i get out, watch your back, etc,etc,etc... You just never know when the threat is real!!!!



Quote:Originally Posted by LA DEP
Well, since we (LASD) have had two Deputies executed when they were identified off duty by suspects, I ALWAYS make it a point to carry a weapon off duty; even when I go to church.

Go to the Officer Down Memorial Page (ODMP.ORG) and look up Deputy Shayne York from the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department. He was murdered while off duty in August 1997.[/U]

robeans
02-04-2008, 09:10 AM
If your a LEO the state can't stop a LEO from carrying, Federal law says an Officer can carry concealed or otherwise anywhere in the U.S. and US territories.

Your wrong. States can add too but not take away from a federal law. This means that if a state adds a law or code that limits are restricts LEO off duty carry, then that's exactly what happens.

TexasAggieOfc
02-04-2008, 03:19 PM
Your wrong. States can add too but not take away from a federal law. This means that if a state adds a law or code that limits are restricts LEO off duty carry, then that's exactly what happens.

Actually, LEOSA pre-empts any state law regarding off duty carry by sworn LEOs, which is defined in the statute. Your agency can tell you not to carry, but then it would be a policy violation. And, depending on the state, a lot of COs are not LEOs... Nebraska DCS is not, most Texas COs, either state or county are not LEOs. So LEOSA is moot in this conversation anyway.

robeans
02-04-2008, 07:14 PM
I stand corrected, I went back and looked and creolecop and Aggie are right, my bad.:o

WSR707
02-04-2008, 09:52 PM
I carry a Glock 22 in a FOBUS paddle holster under my shirt. I have a CCW permit in the county I live in. Carry it whenever I go off the beaten path. I don't believe there's evil in everyone or that the world is going to end anytime soon. Just like being prepared. My wife will probably shoot me with it before I have to use it to defend myself.

TexasAggieOfc
02-04-2008, 11:15 PM
I stand corrected, I went back and looked and creolecop and Aggie are right, my bad.:o

SURGEON'S GENERAL WARNING: Prolonged exposure to Harold Clarke result in decreased brain function.

robeans
02-04-2008, 11:38 PM
SURGEON'S GENERAL WARNING: Prolonged exposure to Harold Clarke result in decreased brain function.

Oh that is funny.

I will say that we ran him out of town. He is now the DOC director in Mass.

WSR707
02-04-2008, 11:50 PM
Is the rest of Nebraska going with???

robeans
02-05-2008, 09:01 AM
Is the rest of Nebraska going with???

Not ours at least. But hey, it's baby steps.

ftlaudcop
02-05-2008, 01:06 PM
Well I know at my agency it is common practice to carry off-duty. Most supervisors actually recommend it, very few people I know don't actually carry off-duty.


I know's what ya mean my brother, when i was up their the county had
a population of maybe 291,000 people and a jail capacity of 250,
and cop's runnin around at $6 a hour.

i used to run across quite a few at the nite clubs , never any problems,
the aspiring rap star's i used to tell them, get caught in cocoa beach
at nitetime yr gonna get shot ,go to the hospital or jail by hook or crook.

in fla....carry off duty as much as ya can, and just be aware of yr surroundings.

TexasAggieOfc
02-05-2008, 03:07 PM
Not ours at least. But hey, it's baby steps.

Wow, when Clarke left the vast, treeless, snow covered prairie, he was the longest serving DOC director in the US (15 years, three governors, two parties). He didn't even make it three years in Washington? Funny... So let me guess robeans, you have the ever delightful Kenney?

Funny story about Mikey, once of his job as Warden at the Nebr. St. Pen. was to carry out executions, but because of Nebraska's small death row, he never did. The question in my mind was could he, especially with the Nebraskans for Life bumper sticker on his car. (N4L is the anti-death penalty, pro-abortion, anti-war crowd in Nebraska) Just seemed like a conflict of interest to me.

correctionsguy
02-05-2008, 11:28 PM
Joe45,

Colorado CO's are technically covered under LEOSA, the CDOC will deny it to the day that they die, however it's supported by case law and state statute. The problem for you guys is the fact the CDOC will can that a** in a heartbeat if they found out any of you were carrying on the badge, however, if you could get one of the sympathetic state senators to send a nice little request for clarification to the attorney general you'd be golden.

Here's the statutes that give CDOC CO's the stautory arrest authority and peace officer status respectively:

17-20-103. Wardens and others - conservators of peace.

The wardens of all correctional facilities under the supervision of the executive director and the staff of such correctional facilities shall be conservators of the peace. As such they shall have the power to arrest or cause to be arrested, with or without process, upon any grounds owned or leased by this state and used by such correctional facilities, any person who breaks the peace, has an outstanding arrest warrant, or is found upon said grounds violating any criminal law of this state and to turn such person over to local law enforcement for detainment and disposition. Local law enforcement authorities are obligated to respond at the facilities' request to carry out the provisions of this section.

16-2.5-135. Executive director of the department of corrections - warden - corrections officer.

The executive director of the department of corrections, a warden, a corrections officer employed by the department of corrections, or other department of corrections employee assigned by the executive director, is a peace officer while engaged in the performance of his or her duties pursuant to title 17, C.R.S., whose primary authority is the supervision of persons in the custody or confinement of the department of corrections and who may be certified by the P.O.S.T. board.

Below is a case in which a CO was charged with aiding and abetting an escape. The theory of defense was that the CO was conducting undercover operations. The court ruled a jury instruction for such a defense was no good because the CO's arrest authority is limited to the grounds of the prison and did not include undercover operations. Basically the court upheld the fact that CO's do have arrest authority on prison property, which is a good piece of case law to shove in the CDOC's face when they preach that you'r'e not law enforcement.

People v. Roberts, 43 Colo. App. 100, 601 P.2d 654 (1979).

MAKE YOUR DEPARTMENT ABIDE BY THE LAW!!! Now go forth with knowledge. lol. Good luck!!

Joe45
02-09-2008, 04:44 PM
I hear you,if it is like florida law it would not be bad. Something is better then nothing:

Florida Dept Of Corrections Off Duty Carry Info

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello all,
I am trying to settle an ongoing question at work, I am a Florida State Certified Sworn Correctional Officer, and this is all about our right to carry off duty. This is straight from the Florida Statutes:

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

790.052 Carrying concealed firearms; off-duty law enforcement officers.--

(1) All persons holding active certifications from the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission as law enforcement officers or correctional officers as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (6), (7), (8), or (9) shall have the right to carry, on or about their persons, concealed firearms, during off-duty hours, at the discretion of their superior officers, and may perform those law enforcement functions that they normally perform during duty hours, utilizing their weapons in a manner which is reasonably expected of on-duty officers in similar situations. However, nothing in this subsection shall be construed to limit the right of a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or correctional probation officer to carry a concealed firearm off duty as a private citizen under the exemption provided in s. 790.06 that allows a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or correctional probation officer as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or (9) to carry a concealed firearm without a concealed weapon or firearm license. The appointing or employing agency or department of an officer carrying a concealed firearm as a private citizen under s. 790.06 shall not be liable for the use of the firearm in such capacity. Nothing herein limits the authority of the appointing or employing agency or department from establishing policies limiting law enforcement officers or correctional officers from carrying concealed firearms during off-duty hours in their capacity as appointees or employees of the agency or department.
The 2007 Florida Statutes

Title XLVII
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AND CORRECTIONS Chapter 943
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT

943.10 Definitions; ss. 943.085-943.255.--The following words and phrases as used in ss. 943.085-943.255 are defined as follows:


1) "Law enforcement officer" means any person who is elected, appointed, or employed full time by any municipality or the state or any political subdivision thereof; who is vested with authority to bear arms and make arrests; and whose primary responsibility is the prevention and detection of crime or the enforcement of the penal, criminal, traffic, or highway laws of the state. This definition includes all certified supervisory and command personnel whose duties include, in whole or in part, the supervision, training, guidance, and management responsibilities of full-time law enforcement officers, part-time law enforcement officers, or auxiliary law enforcement officers but does not include support personnel employed by the employing agency.

(2) "Correctional officer" means any person who is appointed or employed full time by the state or any political subdivision thereof, or by any private entity which has contracted with the state or county, and whose primary responsibility is the supervision, protection, care, custody, and control, or investigation, of inmates within a correctional institution; however, the term "correctional officer" does not include any secretarial, clerical, or professionally trained personnel.


As I read this correctly, Basically , we can carry a weapon off duty concealed, but we are exempt from the concealment permit. We are carrying as a private citizen, we do not have any arrest or police powers, and our agency will not back us.
Any Input would Be greatly appreciated
Thank you all !!
Lets all be safe out there

ESU CO
02-11-2008, 09:18 AM
In New York State all Correction Officers are peace officers and may carry on their ID card. However I know of certain county jails where the Sheriff requires Correction Officers to obtain carry permits before they are allowed to carry off duty.

Joe45
02-11-2008, 09:28 PM
Thanks ESU CO, I guess the sheriff Depts does not to be held liable?

kodger
02-11-2008, 11:44 PM
And yes we all carry 24 hours a day just not inside the C.C.D.O.C

Uhh....we DON'T carry "inside"....