More troopers in Rochester

[mark7777]

So Spitzer says he is sending 60 troopers to the city. That will be good if they are really going to the city not the xpressways and they are permanent. Operation impact works ok while it lasts but has that really made a impact at all? If the troopers are going to be permanently assigned to the city of Rochester from now on great.It will be interesting to see where these troopers are going to come from. He could always just cut troop T down to bare bones.:D

[SlowDownThere]

They won't be coming form Troop "T", that's for sure.

[2411Show]

This is a temporary solution to a longstanding problem in Rochester. There is still murders/shootings, etc despite more officers - they should of started this *solution process* years ago.................

[mark7777]

They won't be coming form Troop "T", that's for sure.

Spitzers gotta find them somewhere. He keeps forgetting the state is what a few billion in debt? talk about a 1 term governor.

[skibum81]

Spitzer is an idiot!

[SlowDownThere]

Spitzers gotta find them somewhere. He keeps forgetting the state is what a few billion in debt? talk about a 1 term governor.

Yeah, but not from the Thruway. All the Rochester Impact Troops will come from Troop "E", not Troop "T".

[tactical208]

Maybe Duffy should tell the police chief to get those officers in the building do civilian jobs and put them on the street, or maybe not have a 5th platoon, multiple narcotic units or better yet...............how about taking BS complaints from citizens and let the officers be proactive again. They are more reactive than ever due to the fear of going to IA. This is nothing more than a political band aid.

[Dave2886]

Anyone know if they're planning on pairing up RPD with these extra troopers, like they've done in the past?

[mark7777]

Yeah, but not from the Thruway. All the Rochester Impact Troops will come from Troop "E", not Troop "T".
True but according to the spitz these new assignments will be permanent. So do you really think troop E can just give up 60 plus troopers to the city like that. Hey ontario county you lose.. Just does not seem like spitzer thought this out maybe it's all political BS. Spitzer says this will be a permanent reassignment not Impact troopers. They will be assigned to the city from now on whenever he supposedly finds them.

[mark7777]

Maybe Duffy should tell the police chief to get those officers in the building do civilian jobs and put them on the street, or maybe not have a 5th platoon, multiple narcotic units or better yet...............how about taking BS complaints from citizens and let the officers be proactive again. They are more reactive than ever due to the fear of going to IA. This is nothing more than a political band aid.

True paying a police officer to do a job you could be paying a public safety aide 8 bucks a hour for makes no sense at all.

[OTVFD18]

True paying a police officer to do a job you could be paying a public safety aide 8 bucks a hour for makes no sense at all.

As a college student, this was always my theory. Put the officers on the street where they want to be and hire college students/future LEO's to take complaints, do paperwork, answer phones, etc. This way, the students get experience and a job they love and the officers are happy not dealing with BS.

[tactical208]

RPD uses their injured officers in 311 for that stuff. Problem with RPD now is, the admisnistration has forgotten how to effectively police. They are gun shy from all the church groups etc...... They on't know how to tell these people "we are going to do our job, there may be some feelings hurt along the way, but public safety is more important.

If they wanted to make an impact they should go back to the ROPE program and develope a gang unit, beef up the tactical unit a bit and get them out there to be visible and making a difference. 4th platoons could go back to focusing on crime patterns in the section and they could have plain clothes details going all at the same time.

wasted manpower is all it is.

I like to know where these 60 troopers are coming from, Spitzer have a mouse in his pocket...

[mark7777]

RPD uses their injured officers in 311 for that stuff. Problem with RPD now is, the admisnistration has forgotten how to effectively police. They are gun shy from all the church groups etc...... They on't know how to tell these people "we are going to do our job, there may be some feelings hurt along the way, but public safety is more important.

If they wanted to make an impact they should go back to the ROPE program and develope a gang unit, beef up the tactical unit a bit and get them out there to be visible and making a difference. 4th platoons could go back to focusing on crime patterns in the section and they could have plain clothes details going all at the same time.

wasted manpower is all it is.

I like to know where these 60 troopers are coming from, Spitzer have a mouse in his pocket...

great points. You can not police scared of what the church is going to say.

[mark7777]

I am surprised that Rochester has not started online crime reporting for minor things such as a broken car window ect yet. Charlotte NC I think and some depts in Florida have been doing this for awhile now.

I know people would rather see a officer show up but If told they would have to wait for 10 hours or just file online what do you think most people would pick.

[2411Show]

Spitzer made a huge mistake with his proposal of giving driver licenses to illegals what makes you think this new idea will come to pass...............

[tactical208]

Online reporting would be great except Duffy would lose even more credibility with it. At least with injured officers in 311 taking reports he can say there still is an officer handling it. The insurance company could care a less about a report, they just want a damn CR #.

They should take the injured officers and put them in assignments within the building. They stay in that position depending on the length of recovery time it will take to get them better.

Better yet, RPD should check their books and see how many officers are out on extended injury leave and either put them in for medical retirement or give them a position inside and tell the able body officer in that position to hit the streets. Of course that's a union issue too.

No easy fix, but these clowns better figure something out fast or the church will be running the city and McFadden will be the leader of the group.

[mark7777]

Online reporting would be great except Duffy would lose even more credibility with it. At least with injured officers in 311 taking reports he can say there still is an officer handling it. The insurance company could care a less about a report, they just want a damn CR #.

They should take the injured officers and put them in assignments within the building. They stay in that position depending on the length of recovery time it will take to get them better.

Better yet, RPD should check their books and see how many officers are out on extended injury leave and either put them in for medical retirement or give them a position inside and tell the able body officer in that position to hit the streets. Of course that's a union issue too.

No easy fix, but these clowns better figure something out fast or the church will be running the city and McFadden will be the leader of the group.

I see duffy being a one term mayor just like the spitz.

[2411Show]

I work in the city and live in the suburbs. The city should of started this *Operation Zero Tolerance* long time ago.... Now that they *understand* they have one - everyone has a solution but nothing gets done...........

[hxd]

2411Show - Don't be fooled. Zero Tolerance is nothing short of poorly implemented political grandstanding. Believe it or not, at this stage in the game, it's actually LESS effective than it could have been when it was first launched.

Getting the criminals off the streets is only ONE small part of a complex solution to a very large and complex problem. The problem being created now is that the other supporting resources (DA's office, courts, jail, probation, etc) are being taxed to the limits. As a result of doubling and tripling caseloads, more deals are being made to avoid drawn-out trials, the courts are handing out lighter sentencing in order to keep the jails from overflowing, and criminals are getting less supervision due to increased probation/detention officer to criminal ratios.

Mayor Duffy and Chief Moore give the appearance of being hell-bent on reducing crime rates in the city. If they were serious about it, they would address at least a portion of the challenges that the City of Rochester and the RPD are facing.

One of the problems is a lack of anchoring in the city. Rochester is FULL of rental properties that are really run by slumlords who only care about collecting their rent check every month. They don't care about keeping their properties up to code, let alone keeping them in good "friendly neighborhood" condition. A great number of these people don't even live in the city! One of the things that goes hand-in-hand with that is the large number of renters in the community. This isn't to say that renters are necessarily bad. But when something belongs to you, you have a tendency to take better care of it than you do when you're renting it. These people just don't care about the condition of their homes because (a) they can just pick up and go to another rental property if they have to or (b) they fear retribution (eviction) by the landlord if they complain about the substandard conditions. In order to address this problem, we need to encourage home ownership in the city, require landlord registration, and enact and enforce some type of standards for upkeep of residential properties. This requires bolstering an already overburdened code-enforcement office.

Another problem is a poor relationship between the RPD and the community. Do cops screw up? Sure they do. They wouldn't be human if they didn't. But there's absolutely no need to throw them under the bus every time it happens. Every time a police officer is forced to deploy a high level of physical force (not necessarily deadly physical force), there is SOMEONE on the 6pm news complaining about how the police overreacted. Community activism is good and police oversight is necessary, but the court of public opinion is not the place to play these issues out. There's no doubt in my mind that Raymond Graves had every news reporter in Rochester on speed-dial on his phone. And the news media and the "community activist" groups aren't the only ones throwing good cops under the bus - RPD administration is doing it as well. What would your attitude at work be like if you had to be worried about being the media's "flavor of the month" and you knew full well that your boss would turn his (or her) back on you if you did your job and attention was drawn to you as a result? Duffy needs to get off his throne, dump Moore out of his lap, and try to drum up some hard-earned good publicity for the RPD while Moore stand by his men and women and enabled the cops to do their job and be PROUD of the job they do. They need to create an environment where people look forward to coming to work every day instead of fear the microscope of the administration, the church groups, the media, or Internal Affairs. For cryin' out loud, LET THE COPS BE COPS!

And while we're talking about letting cops be cops, let's get rid of this eastside/westside crap and go back to five or six, or even eight beats. Rather than sit in cars and run hell's half-acre taking radio calls all night, let's get officers back into the community, interacting with the people and building relationships with the businesses and the citizens. In order to do that though, we need to put more officers on the street. Sure it'll cut back on Otto Harnischfeger's $50k in overtime in the last three months. But it'll also make for less fatigued officers, it'll help with morale, and provide for a little "down time" that officers can use for PROACTIVE police work.

And the other big thing that needs to happen is that we need to empower the CITIZENS to make a POSITIVE impact on their communities. What happens when you take a drug dealer off the streets in Rochester right now? Another one is there to take his place within a day. Status quo is maintained, and there is no real positive impact on the community. What if you were to focus on a particular community? You take a bunch of criminals off the streets, and then there's a power vacuum. It's VERY similar to what's happened in Iraq. It may not be the best for the community, but at least it's stable. What they should do is enlist these church groups that just sit around and pis$ and moan about the state of the community to replace the criminals the cops take off the streets with a POSITIVE force. And then the rest of the community needs to back up the positive forces that are put into place. We do this by building pride in the community and helping the citizens take a stand against the things that have enabled this infestation to go on for as long as it has.

Zero Tolerance would have been infinitely more effective if Duffy had reached out to the community and approached it from a number of angles, including the ones I listed above. He should have been working with all of these groups, getting everyone on the same page, and saying "We'll get these bad guys off the streets, but it's up to YOU to take the lead in keeping them off the streets. This is YOUR community too, and you need to play an active part in making it what YOU want it to be."

But then again, what the hell do I know? I are only a lowly college student.

[95mercury]

Man, I'm wondering if the 25 bucks I spent to take the RPD test was worth it. I hope working conditions aren't as poor as I'm inferring from this and other theads....

Also, 60 troopers is a lot of manpower to commit. Wonder if other cities will start demanding the same??

[OTVFD18]

Also, 60 troopers is a lot of manpower to commit. Wonder if other cities will start demanding the same??

Good point. It will be interesting to see if this problem arises.

[Standing_Tall]

hxd - Well put. The problem with your "rentals" is that due to crime, no one wants to live in those neighborhoods, so the property sells cheap to the landlords. Landlords rent them out to whoever dares live in the neighborhoods. They are caught between a rock and a hard also. Why put money into them if they are only going to get damaged again. Besides being a police officer, I am a landlord (why, I don't know - slap me, would you!) so i can see both sides. Although I am not a "slum lord", I do not want to live in the neighborhoods I buy houses in either. I think a stronger uniform police presence is always good. Although it would have been easier starting earlier, you can't bring back the past, so all you can do is try. Good luck over there at RPD! Although I don't live/work in the area, I come and visit a few times a year, so i have seen how things have gone downhill over the years.

[hxd]

The problem with your "rentals" is that due to crime, no one wants to live in those neighborhoods, so the property sells cheap to the landlords. Landlords rent them out to whoever dares live in the neighborhoods. They are caught between a rock and a hard also. Why put money into them if they are only going to get damaged again.

And so perpetuates the cycle of deterioration in the city. SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE needs to break this cycle. Who and how? That's not for me to decide. That's why there is an ELECTED Mayor. But hey, who has time to do their job when they're busy running a police department?

...Although I am not a "slum lord", I do not want to live in the neighborhoods I buy houses in either.

Nor does a landlord necessarily need to live in the neighborhood where he or she owns the properties. The landlord SHOULD, however, regularly look after the property. The landlord, should also be available to the tenant (and the City) when necessary to correct immediate problems. We have houses in Rochester that are in such disrepair that they should be condemned. And there are families living in these houses, sending their monthly rent check to a PO box in Florida. Complaints to the landlord go unanswered for months, until the rent check stops coming. When the landlord finally shows up, he discovers that his house has burned to the ground because he failed to provide a working smoke detector. But why should he care? His insurance will cover his loss and he gets his money anyway.

[Dave2886]

As for cleaning up areas, I have seen 1st hand what happens when this is attempted: All you do is move the crime from one area to another. Here in Charlotte, NC, there have been many attempts at this, and we have many "integrated" neighborhoods. These neighborhoods have section 8 houses right next door to high dollar condos and houses. Right now there are several neighborhoods that have traditionally been some of the worst areas in the city. People have been buying up these crack houses and bulldozing or renovating them, and turning them from $45k properties into $450k properties. Then the yuppies who buy them wonder why their houses keep getting burglarized and their cars keep getting stolen.

On top of this, the powers that be have decided section 8 shouldn't just be kept in certain areas, so now they're buying houses all over the county, including in areas that used to be really nice, and putting section 8 people in them. I don't want to hijack this thread and make it a section 8 discussion, but we all know what kind of trouble goes hand in hand with section 8. All this "revitalization" effort is really just polishing turds, but it doesn't actually get rid of any crime. It just spreads it out all over the city. The end result is there are very few areas in this county now that you can expect to be totally crime-free, and the traditionally "bad" areas are still bad because not only are they still infested with section 8, but now those few bad apples have lots of easy targets because of the yuppies who move into the area.

So, HXD, while I see your point about someone having to bite the bullet and try and improve the area, all that really accomplishes is sweeping the dirt from one corner to another. In order to actually clean the dirt up and dispose of it, that will require steps that I'm sure neither Rochester, or any other city, would be willing or able to take. But I do agree with a lot of what you said in your earlier, longer post, about the lack of preparation in the other links in the criminal justice chain. If you don't provide for an increased caseload in the court/jail/probation system, tripling arrests won't have much of a long term effect.

[2411Show]

Duffy should stick to Mayor's duties and let Moore handle what he is getting paid to do. Too many hands in the pot and nothing gets done!

[tactical208]

95Mercury if you get hired for the RPD and you have other choices, take the other choices. This has become a political string yanking contest and nothing more.

It's true what e are saying, I just retired in 2003 and spent many days and hours in the ghetto while wearing an RPD uniform.

Chief Moore is controlled by Duffy..........PERIOD. I know Moore wants to do more within the department but Duffy won't let him. There is the underlying problem again of having political ties to law enforcement, it doesn't work.

The Chief of police should be voted on by his peers within the department. That way the little suck holes won't always get their way or their man in a position to elevate them later. The Mayor should stay right out of it,it was better when the Mayor and the Chief of Police didn't always agree then at least there could be some compromise on both sides.

I vote that I should be chief.................of course the city may not be ready for real police work and the go get em attitude, but that's what this city needs.

[2411Show]

I vote for you to be ChiefTactical208 - it would be nice to see someone (with a real police background) take the controls of this mess and start the process to clean up the city!

[tactical208]

Thanks 2411 show !!!

Ok the first order of business..........No more satellite issues in IA

second.............We take back the streets, and if that means good clean agressive police work, then so be it.

third......If you are a criminal and don't like the new police chief, then you are fair game.

fourth.....all that dead weight in the building will be hitting the streets

[Dave2886]

Hey Tactical, call me crazy, but for all your talk about how bad RPD is, I kinda think you miss it, the way you're always talking about it! :D Maybe you need to come out of retirement...

[2411Show]

Chief Tactical208 do whatever it takes to clean this city up - you are so right on everyone of those points - you are a true police officer even in retirement...................:)

[tactical208]

I miss the guys, and I miss some aspects of the job, but I don't miss the political BS that RPD has hovering over it's head. I would be foolish to say I didn't miss the job.

[mooseman]

Man, I'm waiting for the letter to attend the academy. However, after reading all this, I'm having second thoughts!!

I have a pretty good job now. I'm wondering if I should accept the offer!!!:eek:

[tactical208]

The job itself is fun, but the BS is ridiculous with the administration. Look at this way, if you do get on the RPD, you can witness first hand just how far a head from a suck hole can go up an supervisors ***. I never thought they could go up that far, but they do.

[2411Show]

Tactical208 If you had a chance to voice your opinion to some of these *people in charge* what would you tell them in 1 paragraph or less?

[hxd]

mooseman - It may be worth taking the job with a five year goal of moving on to another department. RPD is good for experience - not just experience in police work, but also for experience in navigating turbulent political waters. I wouldn't make a career out of it though. Hell, I won't even apply!

2411Show - I'm only speculating, but it on this board, it would probably look something like:
"What the ****** ***** *********** *********!? You *** ***** son of a *****! Take it and go ******** *******! Get your head out of your *** you ******* *******!" :D

[tactical208]

Simple:

It's time to do some real police work here, let's stop the political band standing, do aggressive law enforcement, dump satellite issues with IA and let's take back our streets with good hard hitting police work. Save your political views they aren't wanted here, this is about having a good safe, clean community.

[2411Show]

Tactical208 Forget about chief, I say your the Mayor!!

[tactical208]

I'll have to see what I can do about that, I would have to run as an independent though. I hate suck hole photo ops and events. Hell if I was chief or Mayor I would be on the streets making sure things were getting done. Like they say though, promote them to their highest level of incompetency. Never did like seeing those *** kissers get promoted.

[2411Show]

Tactical208 You know they will never be on the streets making sure things are getting done........they need someone like yourself that has been in the thick of things for so long and know what RPD is facing..............maybe being Major/Chief would be better and then you can handle BOTH areas of concern..........you have my vote!!

[AllGoNoShow]

Man, I'm waiting for the letter to attend the academy. However, after reading all this, I'm having second thoughts!!

I have a pretty good job now. I'm wondering if I should accept the offer!!!:eek:

While I certainly respect tactical's insight, I wouldn't base my career on one person's opinion. For what it is worth, I know a few officers and they do not share the same feelings that he does (or, at least, certainly not to the same extent.)

You are probably going to find underqualified supervisors willing to throw you to the sharks to save their butt in any job.

[tactical208]

That's fine, but they must be rookies and haven't done an honest days worth of police work in their life.

I busted my *** for that department and was fairly well decorated for my efforts. I can tell you that the administration is weak and has been for over 10 years now. Ever since Urlacher was arrested the departments morale sucks. Sure you can do police work and have fun at it, but it's gonna bite you in the butt sooner or later.

I have nothing against the department as a whole. I just don't like how it is run politically and how fas you are thrown to the sharks. As far as the supervisors go, there are more than a few that will throw you under the bus. Thank god Hickey is gone, he was one of the biggest offenders of this.

The chief is motivated by politics, and with Duffy at the helm, it's just plain ugly. Here you had an individual that was a rat, lost in court after he testified against his fellow officers and now he runs the city.

I can also tell you, the gay bashing incident was a farce as well, but the department entertained it and played along and put the officers on administrative leave. I know the officers involved well, they aren't the monsters that they were portrayed to be.

Bottom line, there aren't may veteran officers happy with the RPD, keep the new jacks out of it, they are still wet behind the ears with excitement.

Ask your buddies when was the last time that actually did any real proactive police work ie: clearing corners on a regular basis, getting out and locking the loud mouths up, filed for a search warrant on a drug house, did a backyard surveillance of a drug house and actually made a worthy arrest, made V&T stops to get dope and guns, stopped people and did fruitful FIF's. Then ask what they do more in their down time on the job, sit in a parking lot talking to their buddy or put in a good 8 hours of good hard police work. I still see way too many officers sitting in lots shooting the breeze for an hour or more.

Find out what your friends do exactly and where they work. If they work in the building or the neutered SIS then they can save their breath, no offense, but things are so neutered in that department it isn't funny, how long have they been on te job ?

[2411Show]

Tactical208 - great explanation from a retired PO that loved what he did but not the politics - good for you.....too bad for RPD that you are retired!

[2411Show]

Tactical208 - you must have a crystal ball! More internal cops are taking to the streets and OUT of the offices..................

Rochester's police chief is out with Phase-2 of his "Zero Tolerance" policy on crime and it includes placing 100 more officers on street patrol. The chief says police patrols are the backbone of the city’s plan to cut crime, so that means more officers out of the office and on the streets.

48 Rochester police officers from internal positions are moving to the patrol division. Moore says this was based on seniority. 10 other officers who are finishing their training join them next month and in April, 40 recruits in the police academy finish up their training six weeks early. The deputy chief says Rochester calls for 3 times more training than the state requires so the rookies should be prepared. As for taking officers from special investigations, the chief says he’s looking to promote more investigators to that unit so things like drug raids, warrants and such won’t be hurt by this change.
There are 748 officers in the Rochester Police Department, by April, nearly 500 of them will be on patrol. Mike Mazzeo of the Locust Club Police Union had this response, "While we understand the need to put more officers on the street, we have some concerns. Not only about contractual issues but support services and meeting the needs of the community."

[tactical208]

GEEEE maybe someone is starting to listen, but I doubt it. It all sounds good on paper, but until there is a reduction in violent crime, then nothing will change. They need an anti gang unit, I did extensive work on the Latin Kings and Florida Boys. In fact I help put most of the Florida Boys away for a long time. Start the ROPE program again, this focused on felons recently released from prison and were on parole. RPD would focus on them to get them sent back to prison once they violated their parole.

[2411Show]

Florida Boys and Latin Kings - in Rochester?? Living in the suburb, we don't hear about specific issues within the city................

[hxd]

That's because Rochester doesn't have a gang problem. At least not one that the brass will admit to in public.

A buddy of mine at RPD worked some gang cases. In a presentation he did for one of the classes we had together, he stated that there were over 25 active gangs on Rochester. Many of them are offshoots of the national organizations, and a number of them are hybrids.

Go spend some time at the HOJ or Rochester City Court. Walk in to the courtrooms and sit in and observe some of the cases. Before long, you'll start hearing a lot of the same names. A defendant in one case may be named as a witness or a victim in another case, and vice versa. These account for a lot of the gang cases.

Problem is, these guys are only taken off the streets a couple at a time when something happens. RPD doesn't have a lot of (if any) officers doing proactive work trying get as many of these guys off the streets as possible.

[tactical208]

That is true hxd, so true, you would think they would focus on thee organized gangs and go after them under the RICO statute. The you can put a lot of them away for criminal enterprise. Oh, hell what do I know LOL.

Yes there are Latin Kings and Florida Boys here. The Florida Boys are a original gang that was created here in Rochester by a family that I will not name at this point. I spent many , many days, hours , V&T stops, FIF's and wiretaps with this group. Gangs are prevelant here.

[2411Show]

Tactical208 I never knew there was so many gangs/issues in Rochester........RPD has their hands full..............I hope they are properly trained for all that they have to endure everyday....seems to me gangs require speciality officers.

Thank God in my suburb we don't have any of that and don;t want it.....

[hxd]

Tactical208 - Will there be a job for me in YOUR department when you become Chief? :D

I've been around the public safety arena (albeit mainly FF and EMS) long enough where I already have a lot of the lights and sirens and "glory seeking" out of my system. Don't get me wrong; I still get a rush taking a car up Main Street in rush-hour traffic on the wrong side of the road, but it's a different rush now. I WANT to do proactive police work. I WANT to work a beat and build a relationship with the residents and the merchants on my beat. I WANT to work the traffic stops that will turn up the bangers, tweakers, and dealers. I WANT to be able to take care of the little problems before they turn into bigger ones. I WANT to be the one who communicates with the citizens after the initial report is taken so that they know their case is being worked on.

But I also want to work for a department that will allow me to do these things. And I want to work for a department that will back me up rather than throw me under the bus. I want to work for a department that will ALLOW me to do REAL police work.

Call me idealistic. Call me altruistic. Call me crazy. Just let me be a good cop.

[6Tango]

It is interesting how RPD can just $h!t out 101 cops! It is almost like someone else is reading and applying this post. Of course putting more officers on the street corners will help prevent some crimes from occurring, and will undoubtedly produce more arrest, which in turn, as hxd has stated
“results in doubling and tripling caseloads, more deals are being made to avoid drawn-out trials, the courts are handing out lighter sentencing in order to keep the jails from overflowing, and criminals are getting less supervision due to increased probation/detention officer to criminal ratios.”

Eventually we will experience classic crime displacement as the hoodlums move from corner to another to avoid the cops. It is a FACT that there are numerous gangs in Rochester, and this displacement will also spike gang violence as territories are renegotiated.
Unless we place officers on every corner to combat displacement. But then we would experience a sort of Marshal Law- city wide lockdown. Reminds me of a movie-
Again hxd is right- crime prevention begins with the community. After all, a gang is a mini community with its own specific values and customs. If the communities would come together and share their values and customs, then the crime and violence would be mitigated. The community needs to have strong bonds with everyone. They need to stop tolerating the crime and hold people responsible to the community.
Instead of sending criminals off to prison, maybe we should bring back banishment and exile. You would probably not steal a car if it meant that you would get kicked out of the country.

[2411Show]

Since the *higher ups* know what the city has in the way of crime - it is time to step up the force with speciality skilled officers to combat these problems NOW!

[AllGoNoShow]

tactical- One is relatively new on the force and another has, I think 8 years or so on. They do express many of the same frustrations that you do-but I think they would be comfortable telling me not to bother with RPD if they really felt the same things that you do to the extent you do (and they have not).

Hey, hopefully I'll get accepted and I can post back in 2 years to see if I feel the same way you do then!

[tactical208]

Well, they haven't been there long enough to have gone through the Urlacher scandal and then how we went through Chief's like they were swiss cheese. So I don't expect either one of them to know what I know or to feel the way I feel or to know about the department as I do.

I'm not saying don't bother with RPD, just don't expect much. RPD was one if not the top agency in New York State and everybody wanted in, now, the vast majority wants OUT !!!!! I would have to say over the past 10 years there have been at least 100 officers that have left RPD for other agencies. That's not a good track record. And when you go through 5 chief of police in 12 years, that's not a sign of a stable department.

The former police chief of Rochester was sentenced today to four years in Federal prison for embezzling more than $200,000 in Police Department funds.

Judge Michael Telesca of Federal District Court also ordered the former chief, Gordon F. Urlacher, to repay $150,000 to the city and to spend 12 years on supervised probation.

I would take advice from somebody with 25 plus years on the job over a person with 8 years any day, he just see's this as normal behavior.

[mark7777]

while the political bs is crap its not limited to RPD. I have one brother in Durham NC PD and he says durham has similiar crap with the church and politics ect. but yes The changeover in chiefs is never good and why they could not find a chief inhouse rather than bring some outsider in-- but Rpd is not all bad It has to be better off than buffalo pd still.

[Dave2886]

Tactical, I'm not doubting a single word you say. But I will also say this: just about every old-timer (i don't mean that in a bad way!) I've talked to at my current agency talks almost exactly like you do. I've got a feeling it's kindof a universal sentiment among long-time cops everywhere--the job ain't what it used to be, they don't let us have any fun, they don't back us up when we're complained on, and they don't hire the same quality people as they used to. So for all the guys reading this who are thinking about, or in the process for, RPD, listen to what Tactical has to say. He's a gold mine of information about the department. But at the same time, keep in mind that almost any cop you talk to anywhere in the country who has at least 25 years on the job will tell you the same kind of things about their agency. Tactical, no disrespect meant at all....

[ChrisF202]

Where are they finding all these troopers to reassign to Rochester and as part of Operation Impact?

Oh let me guess, I bet they gutted Troop L to the bare bones and now theres hardly anyone to patrol the state parkways of America's most populated metro area, not that there were many troopers here to begin with .... its almost like Albany doesnt see us as being part of New York state which is one reason why we had the Long Island State Parkway Police until the 1980s.

This is all one reason why I heavily oppose centralization of police services. Back when we had the Long Island State Parkway Police they were assigned to Nassau and Suffolk and Nassau and Suffolk only. Back when we had the Town of Islip Police they were assigned to the Town of Islip only.

[95mercury]

Where are they finding all these troopers to reassign to Rochester and as part of Operation Impact?

Oh let me guess, I bet they gutted Troop L to the bare bones and now theres hardly anyone to patrol the state parkways of America's most populated metro area, not that there were many troopers here to begin with .... its almost like Albany doesnt see us as being part of New York state which is one reason why we had the Long Island State Parkway Police until the 1980s.

This is all one reason why I heavily oppose centralization of police services. Back when we had the Long Island State Parkway Police they were assigned to Nassau and Suffolk and Nassau and Suffolk only. Back when we had the Town of Islip Police they were assigned to the Town of Islip only.

Lol. Live in the Buffalo metro area for a few years and you'll see what its like to be forgotten by our great capital.

[tactical208]

Dave,
No offense taken, but I'm not as old as you think I am, I'm only in my mid 40's. I started when I was young and got out while the getting was good. It's not just the political crap I'm talking about, it's about the whole mix. The reverends have a list of officers names and they go to the administration with that list and try to get the officers fired. You have a mayor that picks his chief of police so that he can control him. Then you have some supervisors that are totally clueless and unfortunately there are quite a few in the RPD. Or their promotions list, it's not about getting promoted because your good at wha you do and your capable, it's about who you know or who you blow that gets you promoted.

Here's a great example of the BS complaints that IA takes and then gets a stat for it. An officer was fighting with an armed felon who has a gun. The fight went on for about 5-8 minutes before backup arrived. The felon who tried to shoot a fellow officer was choked out by the other officer. The suspect filed a complaint from jail saying the officer choked him. The suspect admitted he had a gun. IA entertained that complaint, the officer was brought into IA and was later exonerated. The officer should have never had to go to IA, A should have told the suspect, "You have no complaint".

Here's a better one, Christopher Hurd case where he tried to run officers over with a vehicle and the officers shot and killed the suspect. The family made such a ruckus that IA was forced to do something. They brought the officers back to the scene and asked each one "where were you standing?" One officer says "Right about here", where says IA, officer says "Right about here somewhere". IA says, nope , according to ballistics you were standing right here exactly. The officer says says ok, like I said it was right in here somewhere. IA wrote the officer up for "untruthfulness". That officer left the RPD for another agency as did the other officers involved.

Want another....A particular african american is caught cheating in the academy, what happens.....NOTHING, instead the officer goes through FTO and 2 months later is in the narcotics unit and they had NEVER made a drug arrest yet. The same officer about a year later says they want to leave the narcotics unit unless they get an undercover take home car, cellphone, and pager. That officer got it and is still a worthless pile of flesh.

There's more and I could go on and on, ok 1 more, an officer makes a proactive stop of a male who is soliciting a prostitute. The officer arrests the male and later finds out that he is a politician. Guess what, the charges go away, the officer gets written up, forced to apologize and then sent for re-training of how to spot "JOHNS". Oh yeah, got to love em.

Like I said, there's a whole lot more where that came from. I'm not saying it's an RPD thing, it happens at most large agencies, but I know RPD.

[NYSP61]

I'd like to jump in and ask a question.

Regarding some of the stories below where the officers are clearly doing their jobs (based upon the stories below), did the union step in and protect them?

I have always been under the impression that unions are very strong in LE so I would think that they would step in and help, specifically with regards to situations like "IA wrote the officer up for "untruthfulness". That officer left the RPD for another agency as did the other officers involved."

I know unions can sometimes hurt more than they help, but in this situation it seems as though they could have helped.

Maybe this is an off topic question, but I am just curious.

Thanks!



Dave,
No offense taken, but I'm not as old as you think I am, I'm only in my mid 40's. I started when I was young and got out while the getting was good. It's not just the political crap I'm talking about, it's about the whole mix. The reverends have a list of officers names and they go to the administration with that list and try to get the officers fired. You have a mayor that picks his chief of police so that he can control him. Then you have some supervisors that are totally clueless and unfortunately there are quite a few in the RPD. Or their promotions list, it's not about getting promoted because your good at wha you do and your capable, it's about who you know or who you blow that gets you promoted.

Here's a great example of the BS complaints that IA takes and then gets a stat for it. An officer was fighting with an armed felon who has a gun. The fight went on for about 5-8 minutes before backup arrived. The felon who tried to shoot a fellow officer was choked out by the other officer. The suspect filed a complaint from jail saying the officer choked him. The suspect admitted he had a gun. IA entertained that complaint, the officer was brought into IA and was later exonerated. The officer should have never had to go to IA, A should have told the suspect, "You have no complaint".

Here's a better one, Christopher Hurd case where he tried to run officers over with a vehicle and the officers shot and killed the suspect. The family made such a ruckus that IA was forced to do something. They brought the officers back to the scene and asked each one "where were you standing?" One officer says "Right about here", where says IA, officer says "Right about here somewhere". IA says, nope , according to ballistics you were standing right here exactly. The officer says says ok, like I said it was right in here somewhere. IA wrote the officer up for "untruthfulness". That officer left the RPD for another agency as did the other officers involved.

Want another....A particular african american is caught cheating in the academy, what happens.....NOTHING, instead the officer goes through FTO and 2 months later is in the narcotics unit and they had NEVER made a drug arrest yet. The same officer about a year later says they want to leave the narcotics unit unless they get an undercover take home car, cellphone, and pager. That officer got it and is still a worthless pile of flesh.

There's more and I could go on and on, ok 1 more, an officer makes a proactive stop of a male who is soliciting a prostitute. The officer arrests the male and later finds out that he is a politician. Guess what, the charges go away, the officer gets written up, forced to apologize and then sent for re-training of how to spot "JOHNS". Oh yeah, got to love em.

Like I said, there's a whole lot more where that came from. I'm not saying it's an RPD thing, it happens at most large agencies, but I know RPD.

[tactical208]

The union was involved and tried to fight it, but the administration prevailed with their dictatorship style. That's why it's such a joke.

[AllGoNoShow]

Dave,
The officer arrests the male and later finds out that he is a politician.

Name! I want a name! haha

[tactical208]

I'll give you intials D.G.

[hxd]

Doh!

He's one of the ones who SHOULD be locked up!

[AllGoNoShow]

I'll give you intials D.G.

Ahhhhh. State representative perhaps? How long ago did this happen?

I could give you an equally interesting story involving another state rep. who represents the city and a certain police officer in monroe county coming home a little too early from his shift......

[tactical208]

The mid 90's....do you mean to tell me you didn't hear about ? LOL of course not the officer didn't know what he was doing for crying out loud....yeah right.

[OTVFD18]

http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=23ed6370-b2ed-4572-894e-01c9f42f47ac

May have found where some of the Troopers are coming from...make sure you read to the bottom of the article.

[GrayState]

I had heard about the possibility of doing away with SROs. Sounds like they are actually going to do it according to that article.

[GrayPatriot]

I know a few guys and gals who will be retiring then.

[fedny]

Why not just send the rookies up there?

[ML75]

http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=23ed6370-b2ed-4572-894e-01c9f42f47ac

May have found where some of the Troopers are coming from...make sure you read to the bottom of the article.

Yeah according to the Executive Budget Recommendations they will reassign School Resource Officers and Investigators from the Video Lottery Unit.
http://publications.budget.state.ny.us/eBudget0809/agencyPresentations/appropData/statePoliceDivisionof.html

I like Sptizer's statement that he would "... leave that to the Superintendent, I’ve asked him to figure out how to reassign troopers."

Assign the mission and let the Superintendent and his staff make it happen without being micromanaged.