Domestics Question

[rx8racr]

I wanna preface this by I am 3 weeks out from taking the TCLOESE certification test...so I wanted to post here and ask this even though im not quite certified yet.

We did Domestic situations the other day and there was one thing that really gave me trouble and I couldnt seem to fix. When you are separating the parties and talking with them separate while still keeping your partner in site and all that, how do you keep the subject focused. These actors were acting all crazy and wouldnt listen to anything. They kept moving and talking towards the other subject and I felt like the whole time I was keeping that from happening, opposed to finding out what happened.

I know alot of it is your professional presence and all that but if you are trying to talk with someone and all you get it crap and F you...what the hell do you do.

any seasoned LEOS have any tactics that seem to work or ideas? thanks

[SRT936]

These actors were acting all crazy and wouldnt listen to anything. They kept moving and talking towards the other subject and I felt like the whole time I was keeping that from happening, opposed to finding out what happened.

First off, you have to take control of the situation. If they're acting out like that, you do not have control. The longer that goes on, the better the chance that you, your partner, or a subject are going to get hurt. If they refuse to listen and obey, they get hooked up. Period.


I know alot of it is your professional presence and all that but if you are trying to talk with someone and all you get it crap and F you...what the hell do you do.

Then they get hooked up and taken off to the car. Once they're removed from the scene, you can go about getting the information from each person without the distraction of the other.

[just joe]

Agree with above. They need to be out of sight and communication with each other so they can calm down and you can gather your info.

[Nightshift va]

You should demonstrate how to take control of the situation. There needs to be a great deal of leeway and discretion when you are in a subjects home versus a public place however if the conversation gets directed towards you and you are threatned, cussed at or in anyway talked to in a manner where one of the homeowners uses comments in an attempt to intimidate you arrest them for obstruction. Some states also recognize profanity directed at you as a seperate violation as well. either way, learn your code book and apply it to keep control of the situation otherwise it will get out of control and you will be downgraded for failure to act and maintain control. Welcome to the world of Law Enforcement. If you actually become a police officer not only will you get to deal with situations like this you will get to sell it to a judge and at times a jury as well. :cool:

[hemicop]

Both GREAT answers---May I also add from a tactical point----positiion yourself & your compl/susp so he can't see the other party, yet you can see your partner. Briefly expalin what you need from him (how emphatic you are is up to you), there's where you're taking control comes in. Once you have the info you need, decide on your action, communicate that to your partner (hand gestures work well) do what you need to & get out. What you've done then is solved (hopefully) the situation, worked safely with your partner, and made a safe and (hopefully) uneventful arrest.

[Garbage Man]

put them where they cant see each other and they will stop talking to each other. Put the guy on the lawn and the female in the living room. No kitchens or garages (too many weapons) stand just outside the open front door your partner stands just inside. Get them to focus on you. out of sight out of mind.

If they are too amped, hook them up. hook the man up first then the female. They can scream all they want then and pose no harm to anyone.

[Caspertoo]

Also keep in mind that just because they are seperated and you can't physically see your partner, it doesn't mean it's wrong. I'll often be talking to one person inside the apartment in the living room (just inside the door) and my cover guy will be talking to the other half on the front porch. If either of us were to get in trouble, the other would know about it almost instantly.

The other advice above is spot on, gotta take control.

[Gene L]

Yeah, like Caspertoo, I'd much rather interview each one alone. Just make sure they aren't where they can grab a weapon easily.

Keep them separated from sight and hearing, if possible, and act sympathetic to the one you're talking to. Nod your head and say things like, "I understand what kind of stress people go through," which is a neutral statement but sounds sympathetic. Ask questions, but don't make accusations until you're sure you're ready to make an arrest, by which time things will have calmed down.

If there's only you (I hate those, but it happens) be neutral and as was said, take charge by saying something like, "Hey! Something important has happened here between two loving people, and I'd like to know why....one person at a time. So let's get this sorted out." Chances of this working if you're alone are slim, but what else can you do?

Most of the time they're F-Uing each other, and that can't be allowed. That's why it takes two. And most of the time one of them (usually the principal aggressor) is feeling bad about the cops showing up, and is ready to calm down. He or she just needs to vent a little to a third person who will lilsten, so I let them vent, and never patronize them.

And our rules are if one is bleeding, the other goes to jail. Unless there are celar exigent circumstances.

[Smurfette_76]

Since my partners are more often male than female, I generally have them confront the female half of the domestic while I take the male. This is for two reasons. One, I've been a victim of domestic violence and thought in the beginning of my career that I could be more compassionate and deal with the victims better because I understood. While part of that is true, I find it easier to deal with the men so that I'm not in danger of becoming emotionally involved in an incident. No, I'm not saying that men are always the agressors, so nasty PMs from anybody. Two, I find that I can calm men down faster than my male partners can, as they don't see me as a threat AND they don't feel the need to physically confront me as frequently as they do my male conterparts.

I used to show up on domestics and end up have to double team a confrontational man because they ended up bowing up on my partners...then you're having to fight with them, while you still have a female in the area (and possibly children). You never know if she's going to turn on you when you start dealing with him...blah blah blah...I've just found it easier if I take the male half and left my partner take the female half. Side note: I don't know why, but when it's been myself and a second woman that are first on scene at a domestic, men act worse. My honest opinion is that a man automatically goes into defense mode in assuming that two female Officers are naturally going to take the side of the woman and that he's screwed. He then becomes a PITA to handle. Sorry, had to throw that in there.

The second thing is that I don't hesitate to lock someone up. I'm not scared to lay hands on anyone and I'm not scared to make a mistake, either. If I show up on scene and it's apparent that one or more of the parties laid hands on each other, I arrest them. However; general statute in NC is very specific on domestic violence related incidents. It is our only law that mandates that we SHALL arrest, not that we could or should, but we shall. If, during my investigation, it shows that one party acted in self defense, that's fine, I'll handle it from there. The biggest mistake I see inexperienced Officers make is they wait too long to lay hands on someone. Domestics are about emotions and violence and nothing good (IMHO) is going to come from allowing the two parties to hash it out while the Officers try to figure out who is "most" at fault. I'm not Oprah and I'm not Dr. Phil. I'm not going to give you an hour to express your emotions to a willing audience and I'm not certified to fix your problems (I will tell you how f-ed up they are, though). My job is to stop the current problem because I can't fix in five minutes, what it took you months or years to create.


As for the original question, I just don't normally find it hard to get people to speak to me. I show up on scene, I explain what will happen, and I do my job. Period. I think that experience gives you that ability to walk the line between ballbuster and pushover. Also, please remember that while this isn't personal for YOU, this is very personal for the ones involved. It's far too easy for an Officer to become desensitized to what they see and expect the victim to return to the aggressor over and over again; you never NEVER know that what you say to someone or the small bit of compassion you show a victim MIGHT just be the very thing needed to make a change. I'm not suggesting that you become emotionally involved in your domestic cases, but don't treat the victim like "just another one" because if they feel that no one cares, they will never rise above their current situation.

Just my .02.

[grumpyirishman]

If the situation cannot be controlled, and you have pc for a charge, just lock them both up and let the family court handle it.:mad:

[Gene L]

If the situation cannot be controlled, and you have pc for a charge, just lock them both up and let the family court handle it.:mad:

Then call DFACS to take charge of the kids, and wind up spending 4 hours on a 20 minute call. Sorry, Irish, but that's an awful solution.

State law requires us to identify the Primary Aggressor. The other party may have defended him or herself, but there's always someone who starts it, and that's who needs to go to jail. No locking them both up for convenience sake, and transferring the problem to the jail.

And finally, once you remove the primary aggressor, the problem is solved. No need to lock them both up, since the other one has no one left to argue with.

Unlike Smurfette, we don't lay hands on people, generally. That usually exacerbates the situation, and sometimes provokes an attack from the other party. We ask them to comply, and if they don't they get a dose of Edison Medicine.

[grumpyirishman]

I have determined that they are both primary aggressors. Both go to jail. There were no kids on the scene. You didn't understand my scenario. :p

I am not here to solve problems that have festered between a couple for eons. Call a social worker. I don't do counseling, nor do I care to.

Also, I have found that if both go to jail, you rarely ever get a call at that residence again! They are in shock!

But I know! You are still working on your conspiracy theories and do not understand us in the DC area......:eek:

[Smurfette_76]

LOL. Since when is it wrong to lay hands on people? What I mean by that is making an arrest...IE laying hands on them. I'm certainly not going to stand around and listen to the BS if it's obvious that there's been an assault.

[Gene L]

I have determined that they are both primary aggressors. Both go to jail. There were no kids on the scene. You didn't understand my scenario. :p

I am not here to solve problems that have festered between a couple for eons. Call a social worker. I don't do counseling, nor do I care to.

Also, I have found that if both go to jail, you rarely ever get a call at that residence again! They are in shock!

But I know! You are still working on your conspiracy theories and do not understand us in the DC area......:eek:


There can't be two "Primary" aggressors. The definitioin of "primary" doesn't allow for that.

I don't know what you do up there, but my State makes certain requirements of me. Arresting everyone in sight isn't police work, it's just mindless reaction. Also, if everyone knows they're going to jail, you get a lot more fights on your hands. And that fact that they don't call back doesn't mean abuse is still not going on in the house. To be abused and THEN arrested is not my idea of justice.

I'm not a LEO to serve myself, or to make my job easier at the expense of others.

[Gene L]

LOL. Since when is it wrong to lay hands on people? What I mean by that is making an arrest...IE laying hands on them. I'm certainly not going to stand around and listen to the BS if it's obvious that there's been an assault.


Down here in Georgia, we call making an arrest making an arrest. "Laying hands" means contact with an individual who is no cooperating.

It's just not necessary to lay hands on them. If they're cooperating, no reason to lay hands until you handcuff them. If they're not, time to bring out Mr. Taser.

Fighting with someone on a domestic, whicih I have done several times, is a scary thing for me.

[grumpyirishman]

I'm not a LEO to serve myself, or to make my job easier at the expense of others.


Ah, but I am. I am the most important person in my life!! :rolleyes:

[Gene L]

I think you're about ready for the Airport Detail.

[grumpyirishman]

I think you're about ready for the Airport Detail.

Wow, look at the big silver birds....:confused:

[Smurfette_76]

:D Speaking of domestics... ;)

[mdrdep]

Ok Rx here is your next scenario. Gene and GrumpyIrish are fighting on an internet forum. How do you separate them, determine the dominant aggresor (that's the term we use in Ca), and resolve the situation using the least amount of force?

[CityCopDC]

Domestics and Traffic Stops are "statistically" the most dangerous encounters. You absolutely have to be on your p's and q's. All the above answers are very good answers but for me, the very first thing I ask when entering someones home "especially" a domestic, "are there any knives or guns in the house." Of course everybody has knives in the house. It generally helps if you can sit one subject down in a room, on the bed, keeping an eye on your partner and the subject you have stopped. Under no circumstances are you to lose sight of your partner. Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous, thats what domestic calls for service are.....

[SRT936]

Domestics and Traffic Stops are "statistically" the most dangerous encounters. You absolutely have to be on your p's and q's. All the above answers are very good answers but for me, the very first thing I ask when entering someones home "especially" a domestic, "are there any knives or guns in the house." Of course everybody has knives in the house. It generally helps if you can sit one subject down in a room, on the bed, keeping an eye on your partner and the subject you have stopped. Under no circumstances are you to lose sight of your partner. Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous, thats what domestic calls for service are.....

I never sit people on the bed. That's always where we end up finding the gun. Under the bed, under the mattress, in the headboard, or in the nightstand. Bedrooms are, in general, a bad place to do business. Too many nasty surprises hiding in there.

I also don't sit people on the couch in the living room. I found more knives and guns in the cushions of peoples couches than I care to remember.

[Gene L]

Officer me a Mars Bar and the Irishman a shot of whiskey, and let us go at it.

[JDCOP]

Well each domestic situation/person takes a different response see how they talk and act react accordingly. But the practicals usually for training always seem to be people wanting to act really crazy so practice the safety standards but seems like they are always doing stuff that is off the charts.

I tell you another thing I'm not the best domestic violence person I don't hesitate to ask sgt. or someone for an opinion. If there is some doubt or hesitation ask questions!

[grumpyirishman]

Officer me a Mars Bar and the Irishman a shot of whiskey, and let us go at it.


Looks like we just settled our differences....;)