LWRC M6A1 w/ AAC M4-2000 mod 7

[jwise]

Here she is:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/TC%20Drills/LWRCM6A12.jpg

I'm taking her to the range tomorrow AM, and plan on shooting her till the suppressor turns colors...

[ThursCo]

absolutely beautiful

[JTShooter]

I've heard nothing but praise for the AAC M4-2000 mod 7. Throw in some subsonic rounds and it's nothing but beautiful silence (well, comparitively) I look forward to your range report.

Quick question, why'd you pick that can over say, Surefire or some of the others out there? Was it because the quick release or it's glowing reviews?? (no pun intended) Also, what type of mount are you using? Did you have change anything out??

Sorry, silencers and the like make me giddy like a school girl...

[Blackdog F4i]

happiness is a searing hot suppressor:
http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/9534Weapons-046.jpg

[JTShooter]

happiness is a searing hot suppressor:
http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/9534Weapons-046.jpg

And which supressor is this Blackdog??? My only experience has been with Surefire and KnightsArmament.

[bikecop136]

Grrrrrrrrr, i want one.................

[Blackdog F4i]

It's a custom CTS 5.56mm.

Here is the QD Mount:

http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/9534Suppressor-001.jpg

It only adds 4" to the OAL of my M4.

[JTShooter]

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

[Blackdog F4i]

jwise...How do you like that Gladius?

I have seen the strobe feature and wonder how well that would work in a tactical application. I know it's disorienting as hell on the receiving end, but I wonder how Target ID would work with it on strobe.

[jwise]

Alright. I got back from the range, and I have good news and bad news. But first, let me give you a quick overview on the morning.

I woke up with temps in the 50s, and rain. Who cares? I train like I fight, and I fight in the rain, so off I went.

I set out with ~400 rounds of ammo, and about 1.5 hrs to kill. I started with the suppressor off, and sighted in the Eotech and iron sights. After that, I shot with and without the suppressor from the 50yd line for accuracy with Winchester 62gr Penetrator (Green Tip), Winchester Ranger 69gr BTHP, and Wolf 55gr HP. I then detached the suppressor and ran through as much ammo as I could before I had to leave, testing for reliability.

In all, I emptied 326 rounds. 300 rounds of Winchester 62gr Penetrators (which is what my old upper choked on during the rifle class in September), 20 rounds of Wolf 55gr, and 6 rounds of Winchester 69gr BTHP. The suppressor was attached for approximately 120 rounds, and 180 was shot without the suppressor (the very first few rounds and the last 150 or so.)

Here is the "evidence" regarding how many rounds were fired.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/LWRCafteraction.jpg

All those magazines were unloaded very methodically... BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG!!!!

On to the good news. Other than one occurrence of the bolt not going completely back into battery (on the second magazine of the day), it ran flawlessly!! I put NO lube on it whatsoever, relying solely on the slick finish on the bolt carrier. The recoil was much less than my old upper, and the rear sight was sighted in somewhere in the middle range of its adjustments (not squished all the way to the right side like the last upper.)

I personally fired all 326 rounds, and the following picture is my evidence for this claim...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/DirtyFace.jpg

Suppressors really throw a lot of soot back in your face. :D But they also throw a lot of soot all over your rifle's upper receiver. See below:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/LWRCafteraction1.jpg

Now for the bad news. At 50yds, with Winchester 62gr Penetrator, I was shooting 6-8" groups from the prone position. Bear in mind, the rain had soaked my Eotech, and the glass was wet with rain drops. My visibility sucked, but I could still put the 1moa dot right on the money. Unless the refraction of light off the rain drops is the culprit, I have no explanation for this DISMAL accuracy other than the barrel. Ok, that's a strong claim, so I went to test all other factors to eliminate them one at a time.

I removed the Eotech and shot with iron sights from the 50yd line, proned out (laying in the water SUCKED!) The groups weren't any better, and appeared to be buckshot hits from 25yds.

I kept shooting, and actually started to get slightly better groups. I started thinking the barrel just needed to be "shot in", so I kept going.

I removed the suppressor and shot for groups at 50yds with 62gr Penetrator. No improvement was seen.

Since neither the suppressor nor the optic was the culprit, I decided to switch ammo to see if the 62gr penetrator was causing this horrid accuracy problem. I put the optic back on (since I shoot better with the Eotech) and I shot a 6 round group of Winchester Ranger 69gr BTHP (our duty ammo.) This was also shot from the 50yd line.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/Target50yd69grBTHP.jpg

I loaded a 20rd mag of Wolf 55gr HP ammo (my practice ammo), and this is what I got from the 50yd line.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/TargetWolf55gr.jpg

Since these groups were actually REALLY good compared to what I WAS getting, I decided to throw a mag of the Winchester 62gr Penetrator back in, and see what I could put up. This was the result:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/TargetWinchester62grpenetrator.jpg

Pitiful...

Before you start thinking I just don't know how to shoot, I put up a 2" group at 100yds (not just at 50yds) with the old upper (11.5" LWRC), so that ain't it.

I did see improvement over the first 100 rounds, so perhaps the barrel was a little rough and just needed to be smoothed out a little. I am still mortified by these horrible group sizes, and need to see some SERIOUS improvement and SOON! My plan is to wait for this week's weather to blow over, and get back out to the range on a better day. First, I will shoot another hundred or so rounds through it in case the barrel just needs to be "smoothed out." I will be sure to bring a scope with me, and shoot for groups off a bag.

Here's a couple more pics of the rifle and suppressor "afterwards." :D

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/LWRCafteraction2.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/AACM4-2000mod7afteraction.jpg

[Blackdog F4i]

I dunno. Sounds like there is problem to me.

If it isn't
"smoothed out" after the first couple hundred than I don't know what will smooth it out.

What brand barrel is it?

[jwise]

Quick question, why'd you pick that can over say, Surefire or some of the others out there? Was it because the quick release or it's glowing reviews?? (no pun intended) Also, what type of mount are you using? Did you have change anything out??

Sorry, silencers and the like make me giddy like a school girl...

My local dealer is a AAC stocking dealer. I like the quick connect suppressors better than the thread-on for a couple reasons. The thread-ons sometimes "unscrew" themselves as they are shot and are slower to remove and attach. I like shooting my rifle both ways, as long shooting sessions will REALLY foul up the rifle.

The AAC M4 2000 comes with a proprietary flash hider made by Yankee Hill Machine (YHM.) It looks like a Phantom flash hider with course threads.

[jwise]

jwise...How do you like that Gladius?

I have seen the strobe feature and wonder how well that would work in a tactical application. I know it's disorienting as hell on the receiving end, but I wonder how Target ID would work with it on strobe.

That's a Night Ops Falcata 9v, not a Gladius. As a weaponlight, I'd rather have the brighter and farther "throw" of an incandescent over the LED in the Gladius. This one puts out 125 lumens.

No fancy electronics, but no ridiculously high price either!

[jwise]

I dunno. Sounds like there is problem to me.

If it isn't
"smoothed out" after the first couple hundred than I don't know what will smooth it out.

What brand barrel is it?

I hear you. I'm just not wanting to jump to conclusions until I test it further.

I don't know exactly who made my barrel, but it is the stock barrel used by LWRC. I believe they use Lothar Walthar barrels, or at least used to. I should definitely check...

Other LWRC users claim to be getting very good results, with only a small few stating otherwise. I'm not sure what level of accuracy I should expect. Probably 2moa? 4moa would be the outside limit of what I would consider acceptable. But heck, that's AK accuracy...

[Bigun]

Clean it really good with a good copper solvent if there is a rough spot in the barrel your patch will drag on it and let you know where it is. If it really is a Lothar Walther barrel it should be top notch and I'd think that your flash suppressor/quick disconect is messing with your barrel harmonics and in that case if you want better accuracy a change is in order. Shooting that many rounds through a new barrel without cleaning is generally not recommended but at the same time you dont have to go through the meticulous barrel break ins that a bench rest shooter would. I typically clean them after every 30 rounds untill I have 150 or so down the pipe then just clean after every range session no matter how many I put through them.

[Blackdog F4i]

Oh IC. For some reason it didn't register at first that it was a piston upper. That adds quite a few new variables. I have exactly no experience with the piston system. Of course I have no experience with any of the LWRC weapons.

I guess I was confused because of the picture of the soot on your face. I didn't think pistons had the blowback that DI rifles have when using suppressors.

[jwise]

Yeah, suppressors on piston rifles blow soot in your face just like on DI guns. It's not coming from the gas tube, but the barrel.

I found out the barrel is an ER Shaw barrel, not Lothar Wolthar. Not sure if that was just an option or what.

I'll try to clean it really good with a patch and see if it snags. Thanks for the tip. I usually just use a bore snake on my chrome lined barrels.

[Bigun]

ER Shaw barrels are a lower priced alternative to premium barrels, no better than a factory barrel in most regards and lower quality than most of the higher end manufacturers use. My guess is thats your accuracy problem. I would be really suprised if you dont have several rough spots. It may get better after it breaks in and smooths out.

[Blackdog F4i]

If you have just been "bore snaking" it, then I would definitly suggest that you grab a brush, some patches, CPL and a good copper solvent. I like Hoppes, but I am getting ready to try Remington 10x.

Clean that puppy till the patches come out white and try again. Also take a look at your crown and make sure there aren't any nicks or gouges. If you have one, you can get reamers from Brownells to clean it up. The next time I have to pull the muzzle device off of my HBAR I am going to kiss the crown with a reamer to clean it up.

As for the Bore Snake. I would consider using one on my AK, but I would never use one on any rifle from which I expect better than 2 MOA accuracy. With a bore snake you are just dragging the same crap through the barrel each time. I also now only use a brush when necesarry. I don't use the brush all the time. I run a wet CLP patch through the bore, let it sit while I clean the rest of the weapon, then run dry patches through until they come out clean. Also make sure you are using a Jag, not an eyelet. Eyelets will work, but Jag's are better.

[Bigun]

I normally use a nylon brush soaked in Hoppe's and work it through the bore really good then let it sit for a while run a couple of patches through it then do it over again untill the patches come out white usually 3 cycles will get it spotless. If the bore is rough or you are running into especially tough fouling JB bore paste will do a good job and help polish the bore, use it sparingly and make sure to follow it with hoppe's to get any of the left over grit out of the bore before firing or you will accelerate wear.

[jwise]

I took my rifle out again this morning to test for accuracy. I dressed her up for the occasion:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/TC%20Drills/CSC_0058.jpg

Here are the results from today's range trip. All shots taken at 50yds, off a bag, prone. Scope was set to 10X, lower has a RRA NM 2-stage trigger, suppressor was attached.

Winchester Ranger 69gr BTHP Match:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/LWRC50yds.jpg

Winchester 62gr Penetrator Green Tip:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/LWRC50yds1.jpg

Dallas Reloads 55gr FMJ:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/LWRC50yds2.jpg

I shot different numbers of rounds for each group. Oops. I don't count rounds very well. I just "shoot a few."

I didn't bother measuring the groups, but the white square in the middle of the target is a 1"X1" square.

I went straight from the range to my local gunshop/gunsmith and had the smith take a look at the barrel. He couldn't see anything wrong with the crown, or any burrs in the barrel that would cause this.

I have been in contact with the company, and they have stated they are committed to "making it right." If this was a Colt, I'd be SOL. I really like doing business with Darren, Jesse and Joe at LWRC, but I just wish I didn't have to call/email them so much! [I bet they would say the same!]

Standby everyone. We'll see what happens...

[Blackdog F4i]

Let us know how it goes.

[jwise]

ER Shaw barrels are a lower priced alternative to premium barrels, no better than a factory barrel in most regards and lower quality than most of the higher end manufacturers use.

Well these are the standard barrels, so I guess it's not surprising that they aren't considered to be "premium." Still, a little disappointing, as I thought they were better than this.

[jwise]

If you have just been "bore snaking" it, then I would definitly suggest that you grab a brush, some patches, CLP and a good copper solvent. I like Hoppes, but I am getting ready to try Remington 10x.

Clean that puppy till the patches come out white and try again.

I will definitely do this.

Also take a look at your crown and make sure there aren't any nicks or gouges.

Per my gunsmith, it looks to be fine.

As for the Bore Snake. I would consider using one on my AK, but I would never use one on any rifle from which I expect better than 2 MOA accuracy.

I use a boresnake on any rifle with a chrome lined barrel and all my pistols. I use a brush and powder/copper solvent (as opposed to just CLP) only every now and then.

I also now only use a brush when necesarry. I don't use the brush all the time. I run a wet CLP patch through the bore, let it sit while I clean the rest of the weapon, then run dry patches through until they come out clean. Also make sure you are using a Jag, not an eyelet. Eyelets will work, but Jag's are better.

I use an eyelet, as the shop towels I use for cleaning rip when I use a jag. My experience has been that jags really require the "cloth" type patches. Otherwise, this is pretty much my same cleaning regimen. Now I just need to go DO it!