Question for troopers/officers (esp NJ) What are the guidelines for a pacing ticket?

[MobyMud]

Officers and gentlemen: I need help understanding the rules of a writing pacing ticket as I find myself in a situation of "mistaken identity."

My question up front before the detail: what does an officer need in order to write a pacing tocket? Pacing for a certain amount of time? Distance requirements? Clear line of sight? Able to read the license plate? That sort of thing...

Any other advice would be also appreciated!

Story:
I was on the Garden State Parkway around midnight before Thanksgiving last year. There were force 8-9 winds (full gale) and heavy rain so I was driving my pickup truck at 60-65 MPH, any more and I'd be pushed off the road, any less and people would be passing me all the time. I was trying to keep to the left to avoid occasional puddles on the right.

A speeding car comes up from the right lane at 100+MPH, passes me and almost hits me. A state trooper comes from the local lanes, crosses the grass and enters the express lanes, confuses me for the speeding driver, and pulls me over.

When he pulled me over, I tried to tell him that there was a car speeding but not me, instead he hit me with three tickets, careless, 95mpg and for my gps blocking my sight (I tried to explain to him my GPS shows my max speed which was only 68, and it has a log file which shows my speed and position ever 1/10th of a mile...but he wouldn't let me speak...)

So, the question is, since he didn't have radar on me, and he wrote a pacing ticket, how can I defend myself? I've spoken to an officer in the family and he says that he wouldn't write a pacing ticket unless he was right behind me the whole time, and he paced me for at least 1/4 mile. This officer was on the local side of the parkway, I was on the express lane. He could see the car driving at insane speeds for the conditions, but he wasn't close enough to differentiate the car from my truck, so he must have been a distance away or only seen the speeder for a second.

Also, the EZ-Pass receipt that I have places me 18 miles away 18 minutes before, thus using 60 miles per hour is 1 mile every 1 minute, it corrobrates my statement to the officer.

FYI: I'm very respectful on the law. I have nothing at all on my license for over 10 years, I teach boating safety and sailing so I'm very safety aware, and I own a business so the last thing I would want is a lawsuit for driving like a nut and hurting someone.

The video plays back and forth to show the speeding car in front of my truck... which is only visable for a second:
<object width="425" height="353"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1wzrbB_3Kfk"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1wzrbB_3Kfk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="353"></embed></object>

I also was able to do a calculation from the frames on the video which do show the other car, and based on the fact the other car made it around a corner in 10 seconds, places the speed of the other car over 100 MPH.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bajB71JDRY

[SgtCHP]

Plead NOT GUILTY and present all of this as evidence. Let the judge decide!

[Stare]

To write you a speed ticket he didn’t necessarily have to be right beside you. If he testifies that his speedometer was going whatever speed and you were still rapidly pulling away from him then he can write you. I seriously doubt that any judge will listen to anything about the GPS information. But take it to court. Its all up to the judge. There are people found guilty and not guilty everyday by one judge and another judge would haven given the exact opposite ruling.

[CruiserClass]

Can you save your GPS log file? Keep that and your EZ-pass receipt and take it before the judge.

As far as pacing goes, I pace all the time. In construction zones, especially, because I don't initiate a stop until we're both clear of the zone. Its safer for the workers, you, and me. The chances of you checking your rear view mirror in the Interstate are basically none, so I can camp out there as long as I need to. I normally pace at least 2/10s of a mile on the highway, less in the city, and I obviously keep the vehicle in view the entire time.

[exComptonCop]

I didn't watch the video, but according to your transcripts, you were asked by the Trooper(several times in fact) to remain in your car, yet you chose not to. Also, according to your transcripts, you continuously interrupted the Trooper during the contact. I understand you had valid concerns, but the side of the road is not the proper place to argue your case.

Seems like you have enough evidence to win in court, what's the problem?

[MobyMud]

I need to know the exact rules of the pacing ticket, because obviously the officer pulled over the wrong vehicle. From what I understand, the law isn't that clear, which is why troopers prefer to get radar after pacing as a "hard" evidence backup. In this case, the officer proved on video that he was not behind me while I was speeding, as he crossed over from the 3 local lanes, across the divider, to my express lane, and then he caught up to me in 4/10 of a mile from almost a stop: hardly possible of I was speeding over 90 MPH(unless he had a rocket ship).

So, it is possible for an officer to glance up from his crown vic, see a car driving at high speed, and before getting a chance to use radar or pacing any distance to simply pull over a car and claim a pacing ticket, because he "felt" that the car was speeding?

Thanks for the suggestion re the GPS, but I didn't save the log. I can't imagine that the GPS log would be admissible, too easy to fake after the fact, but during it stop it would have been compelling evidence. The EZ pass reciept is good, but I'm thinking that the prosecuter might not allow it, as it can also be faked. Of course I could bring in my computer and access the EZ pass site, that would be more compelling.

Thanks one and all for your help. I appreciate all of your work, every day, protecting me. I also appreciate the officer who risked his life on that rainy night to stop a crazy speeding person, but he simply made a mistake in difficult conditions.

[MobyMud]

Thanks for your comment.

If you notice in the transcripts, I was trying to tell the trooper that the actual speeding car was still out there and could hurt someone. I was only answering specific questions:

State Trooper:Why are you going … as fast as you are going down the highway?
How fast do you think you were going?
Gene Hirschel: I had my cruise control set at about 65.

You see? I was responding to questions. It was only after he wrote me the tickets that I was frustrated in trying to tell him that the car could hurt someone, but I was never given the chance. I agree with you 100% that it would have been much better for me to keep my mouth shut there, if I didn't care about other innocent motorists and I was thinking to my court case.

Gene

[SgtScott31]

You received this ticket almost a year ago and now you're asking us about pacing laws and how to fight it for you?

If you have video and evidence indicating you were innocent, then hire an attorney and present your case to the judge.

#1 - Whether the officer is wrong or right, this forum is not here to fight battles against other police officers when we were not at the scene.

This is one long, drawn out post where you act like you were charged with rape or murder. It is a traffic violation, not the end of the world. Present your evidence to the judge. If you are found innocent, kudos; if not, tough luck, can't win them all.

[MobyMud]

Thanks for your feedback.

This has been drawn out because I have a lawyer who has had date conflicts, in fact today was my court date. It has also been postponed by the court because they didn't have the pacing discovery, then again because the non-trail part lasted too long and the officer couldn't stay any longer.

This last delay may have been a delay tactic from the prosecuter who is upset with me as I posted the video on youtube so I could get feedback from fine folks like yourself. The question remains, what burden does the officer have when writing a pacing ticket.

[PABear31]

Unless an officer from New Jersey choses to answer your question you won't get a valid answer. What is required in NJ may not be the same as what is required in PA, TX, CA or any other state. It seemes to me that if your lawyer can't answer your question that you need to find a competent lawyer who can.

[SgtCHP]

I am not familiar with New Jersey, but I would imagine that it is pretty stable throughout the nation. Any officer who is specifically assigned to enforce traffic laws can be, and usually is, accepted in court as an expert in estimating speed. That means that the officer does NOT have to pace you or use radar/lidar to write you a ticket for speed. S/he can simply estimate it and use that as the keystone for enforcement. That issue is certainly challengable in court; and, the court simply goes outside and asks the officer to make specific estimations of a passing vehicle driven by an officer of the court.

Pacing involves the officer driving at a speed equal to the vehicle in question and checking his/her speedometer - which is periodically calibrated - and making a determination as to the speed of the subject vehicle.

As I stated in my previous post, along with a few other responses, go to court and plead NOT GUILTY. Allow the judge to hear the case and make the determination. That is the appropriate manner to contest the violation.

[Beanstick]

If my memory serves me correctly, (I would need to find this just be 100% sure), but based on case law, the courts have ruled that a citizens' speed estimation is permissible in court, therefore, a trained officer would be more than qualified to do the same. Pacing is just one of several methods used to detect speeding. I usually try to pace no less than 1/2 mile before establishing a driver's speed.

[SgtScott31]

Thanks for your feedback.

This has been drawn out because I have a lawyer who has had date conflicts, in fact today was my court date. It has also been postponed by the court because they didn't have the pacing discovery, then again because the non-trail part lasted too long and the officer couldn't stay any longer.

This last delay may have been a delay tactic from the prosecuter who is upset with me as I posted the video on youtube so I could get feedback from fine folks like yourself. The question remains, what burden does the officer have when writing a pacing ticket.

Your habit of choosing to bold certain text out of an officer's post is irritating. Your question has already been answered, so stop asking. You have an attorney, let him deal with the violation. Stop asking officers on a PRO-police forum to defend your case for you against another brother officer when none of us were there. In my opinion, posting the video on youtube shows some immaturity on your part, mainly because you have yet to go to court. You are crying "foul" on the internet and seeking some sort of plight against the officer that stopped you, so stop implying that you have great respect for us...

[tactical208]

Kind of difficult to pace you from the other direction don't you think, especially coming across the median. Sounds like the officer saw his radar and then decided to write you a pacing ticket. Let the judge decide and ask for a supporting deposition if you haven't done so already.

[deputyryan]

Maybe its because the video isnt that clear but I tried watching it several times. I wasnt able to see any other vehicles except for yours. Which is the same vehicle that he stopped. Could be wrong but I dont see the other car...

[MobyMud]

Maybe its because the video isnt that clear but I tried watching it several times. I wasnt able to see any other vehicles except for yours. Which is the same vehicle that he stopped. Could be wrong but I dont see the other car...

Thanks for watching it. When the video first starts, you can see the car in front of my truck, as a light moving away from me.

It is more clear in this video, along with my explanation:

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[deputyryan]

To be perfectly honest with you all I can see is a bright object. It could be a street sign, could be a street lamp. Theres no way to tell if the object your showing, which is only a tiny spec on the video is a car. Further, you cant tell with certainty that the spec is even a moving object. Yes the position of the spec appears to change, but keep in mind the video camera is also traveling at the same speed as the officer's car. Not to mention there is a curve in the road which changes the line of sight. I dont see this video as something that will exonerate you. But if youre truely innocent the most you can do is try.

Im not saying there wasnt a car. Im not claiming youre a liar. At this point it still seems like your word against the officers. I have yet to have a judge rule against any of my speeding citations. I personally think the outcome of your situation will depend solely on the officer's testimony. If he testifies that he saw your car and your car alone pass him and was able to pace you I dont see much room for wiggle. Its going to be hard to convince a judge that spec of light was infact a speeding car.

That being said this officer is fully convinced your car was the one speeding. Cops are humans too and now and then there are mistakes made. Weather or not this is one only you will know.

[MobyMud]

To be perfectly honest with you all I can see is a bright object. ...
Cops are humans too and now and then there are mistakes made. Weather or not this is one only you will know.

Cops aren't just humans, they are humans that protect other humans! And as such, they can occasionally make a mistake...

Thank you very much for your considered feedback. I was able to find the other car not from looking at the video, but by knowing it was there, knowing where to kiil for it, and finding it. It wasn't easy! I acknowledge that the judge may say that the moving lights against the stationary signs aren't conclusive, but consider also: 1) The EZ pass places me 18 miles away 18 minutes before. Yes I could have driven 45 MPH then spped up to 90, but that isn't likely 2) I tried my best to show the officer my GPS which would have proved my innocense, why would I provide evidence unless I was innocent and had nothing to hide 3) I had NO motivation to drive that fast, in fact with a high profile vehicle like mine with 45 MPH crosswinds that night, it was not even possible to stay on the road and speed 4) The officer never hit me with radar... perhaps because he couldn't as he didn't have a clear line 5) the officer would have to take his eyes off the speeding vehicle to find and negotiate driving across the divider and it would be possible to confuse two vehicles at that time.
I'm hoping that all this together would create enough reasonable doubt.

Thanks again for you comments!

[MobyMud]

Your habit of choosing to bold certain text out of an officer's post is irritating.
You have an attorney, let him deal with the violation.
...mainly because you have yet to go to court.
You are crying "foul" on the internet and seeking some sort of plight against the officer that stopped you

Sgt Scott... I was doing the "bolding" because I didn't know how to use the quote icon, I hadn't noticed it... I apologise, but it was my way of simply quoting the comment that I wanted to reply to. I don't see why bolding is more annoying than using the quotes.

My attorney is a dufus, but I already paid him and I'm stuck with him. It doesn't matter to him if I win or loose at this point, and I'm taking it upon myself to understand what happened and defend myself.

I was also hoping that this can help other officers because there are, in fact, times when you can make a mistake when pulling someone over, and when someone is offering technical evidence such as a GPS, it may be OK to take a look at it if it is offered freely, and in plain sight. Also, in a case of mistaken identity, the speeding car is still on the road, perhaps the guy was drunk (why else would he be running from the trooper at over 100 MPH in a nor-easter storm?) and should have been apprehended by another trooper, which could have happened if the trooper who pulled me over at least considered the possibility I was being truthful.

So it isn't a plight, or anger, but my desire to help and perhaps in a situation like this somewhere in the US, stop an innocent from getting killed because the perp escaped and continued to speed. And, OF COURSE, I'd like to learn about the police rules, guidelines and the law to protect my rights!

Thanks for responding!

(BTW, I've been to court twice now, once to plea and once for trial, but as I stated the prosecuter postponed the trail after I waited for 3 hours).

[deputyryan]

Cops aren't just humans, they are humans that protect other humans! And as such, they can occasionally make a mistake...


Im not sure exactly what you mean by that. Bottom line, I am a human just as you. Bear in mind I understand, as do all LEOs, that our actions have reactions and effect people. I dont take it lightly. I actually took offense to the line "Cops arnt just humans". We ARE JUST humans. Neither I nor anyone else here knows if you are being truthful or not. If I believed everyone that told me "Im innocent" or "It wasn't me" I would be very bad at my job, and so would the cop who stopped you. Just because you tried to show him your GPS doesnt show that youre innocent. Based on that theroy an innocent person wouldnt allow me to search their car. Guilty people often try to "present evidence" that they claim will exonerate them just in an effort to appear innocent. Even when ther know they are guilty.

I am not going to start looking at some GPS that I know nothing about on the side of a major highway. I have had plenty of people give me the line "Well my GPS said I wasnt speeding, so youre wrong". Im sure the officer that stopped you has gotten the same line in the past as well. And Im fairly certain as soon as he heard the GPS line he became annoyed. Keep in mind, even if you are telling the truth here, the cop is already convinced in his mind that it was your car that sped past him.

Back to the video...Your car did pass the troopers car. Which is how im fairly sure how he determined your speed was in the 90's. The officer knew how fast he was going when you passed him and based on that determined you were speeding. I can clearly see your tail lights and then your break lights come on when you pass the officer. But I dont see any 2nd car anywhere. All I see is an very very tiny light in the distance that you claim is a moving car. If it is I didnt see it near your truck.

Also if you were going 65 with cruise control why were you breaking right as you passed the trooper?

Ill say again, Im not calling you a liar. Only you know the answer to that. But honestly I dont see this other car. I dont see much of an argument in court. But you can always try. You at least get an A for effort in my book.

[SgtCHP]

(BTW, I've been to court twice now, once to plea and once for trial, but as I stated the prosecuter postponed the trail after I waited for 3 hours).

Well, welcome to the criminal justice system. :rolleyes: It does take time to adjudicate an issue. :o Your day will come in tme. :eek: Be patient.:D

[MobyMud]

Well, welcome to the criminal justice system. :rolleyes: It does take time to adjudicate an issue. :o Your day will come in tme. :eek: Be patient.:D

Time.... patience....

I am.... I breathe and feel the justice coming into my body, passing through my energy, into my thoughts. I feel the patience, taking the time it needs, allowing it to do it's work like the rain on a spring planting... on the seeds sprouting into the fresh soil...

g