What traffic citations can you write on private property?

[CruiserClass]

In Indiana we can only write certain cites, such as DUI, fire lane violations, or handicap parking, on private property like mall parking lots. We can't enforce private stop signs and the like without a contract with the property owner.

Is this the same in California or can you write tickets for private stop signs at malls? If at all possible, could you list the appropriate code for me?

This came up on another forum recently and I think the poster is talking out his rear.

Thanks in advance.

[ElDiabloJoe]

In California, any private parking lot held open for the use of the public (i.e.-not gated) is open to Vehicle Code Enforcement. That means grocery stores, malls, strip centers, etc. It would NOT mean driveways, private individually owned, or for use solely by a private person/firm's customers (such as doctor's office).

EDJ

[Berlioz]

Unless contracted to that city's police dept. Ie - schools.

[mdrdep]

21107. The provisions of this code shall not prevent any city from
adopting rules and regulations by ordinance or resolution, regulating
vehicular traffic on privately owned and maintained roads located
within the boundary of such city, except that no such ordinance or
resolution shall be effective until signs giving notice thereof are
posted on the roads affected. The provisions of this section shall
not apply to any city in which there are publicly maintained city
streets.



21107.5. (a) Any city or county may, by ordinance or resolution,
find and declare that there are privately owned and maintained roads
as described in the ordinance or resolution within the city or county
that are generally held open for use by the public for vehicular
travel and which so connect with highways that the public cannot
determine that the roads are not highways. Upon enactment by a city
or county of the ordinance or resolution, this code shall apply to
the privately owned and maintained road, except as provided in
subdivision (b).
(b) No ordinance or resolution enacted under subdivision (a)
shall apply to any road on which the owner has erected a notice of a
size, shape, and color as to be readily legible during daylight hours
from a distance of 100 feet to the effect that the road is privately
owned and maintained and that it is not subject to public traffic
regulations or control.
(c) No ordinance or resolution shall be enacted under subdivision
(a) without a public hearing after 10 days' written notice to the
owner of the privately owned and maintained road involved.
(d) The department is not required to provide patrol or enforce
any provision of this code on any privately owned and maintained
road, except those provisions applicable to private property, other
than pursuant to this section.


21107.6. (a) Any city or county may, by ordinance, find and declare
that there are privately owned and maintained roads as described in
such ordinance within the city or county which are generally held
open to the public for purposes of vehicular travel to serve
commercial establishments. Upon enactment by a city or county of
such an ordinance, the provisions of this code shall apply to any
such privately owned and maintained road. No ordinance shall be
enacted under this section without a public hearing thereon and 10
days' prior notice to the owner of the privately owned and maintained
road involved.
(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of subdivision (a) no ordinance
enacted thereunder shall apply to any road described therein on
which the owner has caused to be erected a notice of such size, shape
and color as to be readily legible during daylight hours from a
distance of 100 feet, to the effect that the road is privately owned
and maintained and that it is not subject to public traffic
regulations or control.
(c) The department shall not be required to provide patrol or
enforce any provisions of this code on any privately owned and
maintained road subjected to the provisions of this code under this
section, except those provisions applicable to private property other
than by action under this section.



21107.7. (a) Any city or county may, by ordinance or resolution,
find and declare that there are privately owned and maintained roads
as described in the ordinance or resolution within the city or county
that are not generally held open for use of the public for purposes
of vehicular travel but, by reason of their proximity to or
connection with highways, the interests of any residents residing
along the roads and the motoring public will best be served by
application of the provisions of this code to those roads. No
ordinance or resolution shall be enacted unless there is first filed
with the city or county a petition requesting it by a majority of the
owners of any privately owned and maintained road, or by at least a
majority of the board of directors of a common interest development,
as defined by Section 1351 of the Civil Code, that is responsible for
maintaining the road, and without a public hearing thereon and 10
days' prior written notice to all owners of the road or all of the
owners in the development. Upon enactment of the ordinance or
resolution, the provisions of this code shall apply to the privately
owned and maintained road if appropriate signs are erected at the
entrance to the road of the size, shape, and color as to be readily
legible during daylight hours from a distance of 100 feet, to the
effect that the road is subject to the provisions of this code. The
city or county may impose reasonable conditions and may authorize the
owners, or board of directors of the common interest development, to
erect traffic signs, signals, markings, and devices which conform to
the uniform standards and specifications adopted by the Department
of Transportation.
(b) The department shall not be required to provide patrol or
enforce any provisions of this code on any privately owned and
maintained road subjected to the provisions of this code under this
section, except those provisions applicable to private property other
than by action under this section.
(c) As used in this section, "privately owned and maintained roads"
includes roads owned and maintained by a city, county or district
that are not dedicated to use by the public or are not generally held
open for use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel.



21107.8. (a) Any city or county may, by ordinance or resolution,
find and declare that there are privately owned and maintained
offstreet parking facilities as described in the ordinance or
resolution within the city or county that are generally held open for
use of the public for purposes of vehicular parking. Upon enactment
by a city or county of the ordinance or resolution, Sections 22350,
23103, and 23109 and the provisions of Division 16.5 (commencing with
Section 38000) shall apply to privately owned and maintained
offstreet parking facilities, except as provided in subdivision (b).

(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of subdivision (a), no
ordinance or resolution enacted thereunder shall apply to any
offstreet parking facility described therein unless the owner or
operator has caused to be posted in a conspicuous place at each
entrance to that offstreet parking facility a notice not less than 17
by 22 inches in size with lettering not less than one inch in
height, to the effect that the offstreet parking facility is subject
to public traffic regulations and control.
(c) No ordinance or resolution shall be enacted under subdivision
(a) without a public hearing thereon and 10 days prior written notice
to the owner and operator of the privately owned and maintained
offstreet parking facility involved.
(d) Section 22507.8 may be enforced without enactment of an
ordinance or resolution as required under subdivision (a) or the
posting of a notice at each entrance to the offstreet parking
facility as required under subdivision (b).
(e) The department shall not be required to provide patrol or
enforce any provisions of this code on any privately owned and
maintained offstreet parking facility subject to the provisions of
this code under this section except those provisions applicable to
private property other than by action under this section.



21107.9. (a) Any city or county, or city and county, may, by
ordinance or resolution, find and declare that there are privately
owned and maintained roads within a mobilehome park, as defined in
Section 18214 of the Health and Safety Code, or within a manufactured
housing community, as defined in Section 18801 of the Health and
Safety Code, within the city or county, or city and county, that are
generally not held open for use by the public for vehicular travel.
Upon enactment of the ordinance or resolution, the provisions of this
code shall apply to the privately owned and maintained roads within
a mobilehome park or manufactured housing community if appropriate
signs are erected at the entrance or entrances to the mobilehome park
or manufactured housing community of the size, shape, and color as
to be readily legible during daylight hours from a distance of 100
feet, to the effect that the roads within the park or community are
subject to the provisions of this code. The city or county, or city
and county, may impose reasonable conditions and may authorize the
owners of the mobilehome park or manufactured housing community to
erect traffic signs, markings, or devices which conform to the
uniform standards and specifications adopted by the Department of
Transportation.
(b) No ordinance or resolution shall be enacted unless there is
first filed with the city or county a petition requested by the owner
or owners of any privately owned and maintained roads within a
mobilehome park or manufactured housing community, who are
responsible for maintaining the roads.
(c) No ordinance or resolution shall be enacted without a public
hearing thereon and 10 days' prior written notice to all owners of
the roads within a mobilehome park or manufactured housing community
proposed to be subject to the ordinance or resolution. At least
seven days prior to the public hearing, the owner or manager of the
mobilehome park or manufactured housing community shall post a
written notice about the hearing in a conspicuous area in the park or
community clubhouse, or if no clubhouse exists, in a conspicuous
public place in the park or community.
(d) For purposes of this section, the prima facie speed limit on
any road within a mobilehome park or manufactured housing community
shall be 15 miles per hour. This section does not preclude a
mobilehome park or manufactured housing community from requesting a
higher or lower speed limit if an engineering and traffic survey has
been conducted within the community supporting that request.
(e) The department is not required to provide patrol or enforce
any provision of this code on any privately owned and maintained road
within a mobilehome park or manufactured housing community, except
those provisions applicable to private property other than by action
under this section.


21108. Local authorities may adopt rules and regulations by
ordinance or resolution regulating vehicular traffic on privately
owned and maintained roads or ways within the boundaries of a
privately owned airport, when the roads or ways are expressly open to
the general public for purposes of vehicular traffic.
The rules or regulations shall not be effective until appropriate
signs giving notice thereof are posted along the roads or ways
affected.

[nobody33]

On private property generally only DUI, Reckless, hit and run, handicap parking are enforceable. If it is an open public lot you can also enforce registration/equipment violations.

As the above vehicle code states for moving violations there must be a county ordinance or muni code allowing for the enforcement, then signs posted- Vehicle Codes enforced in private lot. I have seen this generally in malls. The biggest place I have seen it is at Laguna Seca in Monterey.

I could see there being a problem in court though because most private lots don't have the full signs or ground markings.

[LeeRoy]

I think you guys are a little too broad here.

In California, any private parking lot held open for the use of the public (i.e.-not gated) is open to Vehicle Code Enforcement. That means grocery stores, malls, strip centers, etc. It would NOT mean driveways, private individually owned, or for use solely by a private person/firm's customers (such as doctor's office).


If it is an open public lot you can also enforce registration/equipment violations.


The parking lots described above are known as an "Off Street Parking Facility." My understanding is that only 4000(a) CVC, 12500 CVC, and 23103(b) CVC specifically apply in those places. Some Division 11 :

Quite a few violations of Division 12 (driving offenses) can apply on private property "23100. The provisions of this chapter apply to vehicles upon the
highways and elsewhere throughout the State unless expressly provided
otherwise." While many sections in Division 11/Chapter 12 refer to highways DUI and many other sections do not specifically say "on the highway." For example the infamous temple width section referring to eyeglasses, 23120, would apply on private property as would the new hands free cell phone law, 23123, would apply on private property.

Equipment laws, Division 12, specifically applies to vehicles operated on the highway.:

24001. This division and Division 13 (commencing at Section 29000),
unless otherwise provided, applies to all vehicles whether publicly
or privately owned when upon the highways, including all authorized
emergency vehicles.

[LuvedMyMotor]

Seems like there's some disagreement here. I was always taught that only a very few VC sections applied on private property...DUI, reckless, hit-and-run, and maybe a few others. A number of years ago the law was amended to make 4000(a) applicable on private parking lots that were open to the public, and I think that served more than one business (that last part might not be totally accurate). That suddenly made the mall fair game for registration cites and impounds. I don't believe you can cite for a stop sign violation, for instance, or, say, failing to signal for a turn, at the mall.

[CruiserClass]

Thanks for the answers, guys. It looks like its similar to here, there are certain ones you can always enforce (DUI, etc) but for the majority you need a specific code and signs that advise the motorist.

[Fuzz]

Seems like there's some disagreement here. I was always taught that only a very few VC sections applied on private property...DUI, reckless, hit-and-run, and maybe a few others. A number of years ago the law was amended to make 4000(a) applicable on private parking lots that were open to the public, and I think that served more than one business (that last part might not be totally accurate). That suddenly made the mall fair game for registration cites and impounds. I don't believe you can cite for a stop sign violation, for instance, or, say, failing to signal for a turn, at the mall.

My thoughts as well..... DUI, reckless,hit and run all have sub-sections in the vehicle code detailing their enforcement on a off street parking area. Government,city,county property can be posted for enforcement and then all vehicle code sections apply, but from everything I've been taught and have been able to find we are very limited on private property.

[LeeRoy]

My thoughts as well..... DUI, reckless,hit and run all have sub-sections in the vehicle code detailing their enforcement on a off street parking area.

Actually if you read 23152 there's nothing in the language of the statute that says where the section applies versus many other CVC sections that say "on the highway." You get statewide enforce anywhere authority from 23100 CVC:

23100. The provisions of this chapter apply to vehicles upon the
highways and elsewhere throughout the State unless expressly provided
otherwise.

[Mabbottusmc]

You can not ticket for running a stop sign on private property because it's not a city/county approved sign. It's put in by the property owner.

[Blackavar]

There is a CVC that I can not remember right now that if posted on a sign upon entering the property all CVC's are enforceable. Luvmymotor is correct according to my limited knowledge.

[LeeRoy]

Here's your sections Pickle

21107.6. & 21107.7 for private roads to apply the whole vehicle code (requires a city or county ordinance enactment, not just a sign).

21107.8 CVC for parking lots and also requires an ordinance. The only portions of the code that can apply are speeding, reckless, speed contest/exhibition, and off-highway vehicles.

[Blackavar]

I thought there was a code though that did not require a city to pass an ordinance. Oh well. Thank you for the codes.

[Bully]

I didn't read all the posts so I don't know if anyone said it yet. But, besides the vehicle code, a city or county can adopt muni codes relating to traffic. In the city of L.A. there's one for speeding on private property without the property owner's permission. We would use that on the school service roads when some idiot kid decides to play Ricky Bobby.

[Fuzz]

Actually if you read 23152 there's nothing in the language of the statute that says where the section applies versus many other CVC sections that say "on the highway." You get statewide enforce anywhere authority from 23100 CVC:

23100. The provisions of this chapter apply to vehicles upon the
highways and elsewhere throughout the State unless expressly provided
otherwise.

Good catch:D

[326Charlie]

In Va, they can write for reckless, DUI, and fire lane violations on private property