Which department/s cut you the most slack in the hiring process?

[not-a-deputy-yet]

iiiiiiiiiiiii

[zombo]

Most departments I've spoken to say that it would be an issue for 3-7 years, which you are beyond. Remembering to differentiate between once and ones will probably ameliorate the issue entirely. ;)

However, it could still count against you when coming up against a candidate who has said they've never taken illegal drugs... Try all the departments you want, but larger ones will probably be more accomodating. Real shortage right now, so...

[hbliam]

Smoking cocaine is an auto DQ for just about every agency in CA no matter how long ago it happened. Injesting it normally by snorting it they usually will let it slide after 7 years if it was just once or twice.

Sorry. Some decisions you make in your life will DQ you from a LE job.

[willpolice4food]

Injesting it normally by snorting it

Does it even matter? ANY ingestion of ANY illegal drug should be abnormal.

You HAD to know this was coming!;)

[hbliam]

Does it even matter? ANY ingestion of ANY illegal drug should be abnormal.

You HAD to know this was coming!;)

:) , I've seen DQ list's that allow the "normal" snorting mode while auto DQ'ing for smoking it.

[willpolice4food]

:) , I've seen DQ list's that allow the "normal" snorting mode while auto DQ'ing for smoking it.

That's hilarious! I bet if you powderize pot and snort it you would get DQed just in the psych portion alone.:eek:

[MSoCal]

Hey wait, Maywood PD might take ya ;)

[willpolice4food]

Does Maywood even hire recruits? Their website only mentioned Laterals and Academy trained.

Hey wait, Maywood PD might take ya ;)

[zombo]

Well, you work for the tow truck company and lateral over from there...

I have a question about auto D/Q... what do you mean exactly? Because I've talked to recuiters and they'lll say oh, wait 5 years, and when I ask here I'm told it's an auto D/Q... So just to clarify for me, by auto D/Q you would mean that's it's permanently going to immediately result in rejection for the job, or just that it's likely going to lower your marks such that you won't be accepted, or that it's an auto D/Q for a duration?..

I suppose what I've come to understand is that every agency seems to be quite different with their standards and all you can do is try them all... ah well...

[ElDiabloJoe]

It varies by agency and their desperation for candidates. I know of two So Cal agencies that allow *some* cocaine use.

No, I will not elaborate either publicly or privately on which ones, please do not bother asking me.

EDJ

[GB0610]

I remember being told myself one time that because I admitted to injecting steroids, I was Dq'ed from one dept. for good. I was told that if I had used METH 1 time like I had the roids, I would be good to go with the dept, seeing that it was over 5 years prior (at that point in time).

Even the investigator said he didn't agree with the policy, but that's how the current chief wanted it.

So sometimes, although decisions may not make sense, they are ones you have no control over and must learn to live with.

If its meant to work out for you like it did me, it will. If not, the Lord has other plans for you.

Good luck...

[Blackavar]

Remembering to differentiate between once and ones will probably ameliorate the issue entirely. ;)


+1

[ateamer]

Which departments cut you the most slack in the hiring process?

The departments that will settle for less than only the very best.

[not-a-deputy-yet]

@@@@@@@@@@@@@

[not-a-deputy-yet]

@@@@@@@@@@@@@

[hbliam]

Lets see...I can spell "once" and haven't smoked crack and I'm the ignorant one? :rolleyes:

[GB0610]

Which departments cut you the most slack in the hiring process?

The departments that will settle for less than only the very best.

Although I agree with your statement for the most part, I have to say that it is a little narrow sighted.

The VERY BEST is extremely subjective. What makes "the best" applicant? I think you would get a different answer from each recruiting officer/hiring board you speak to. Each seem to be looking for different things in their ideal candidates.

To suggest that a department that will take a candidate that doesn't have the "cleanest" background is somehow settling for less than the best is a little vague. There are many factors that go into making a candidate a viable, good or great.

But as I said, I do agree with you that I would not want to work for a dept. that "cuts slack" in the hiring process. Just one that is realistic and looks at the whole applicant and what they have to offer beyond one or two past indescrepencies...

[ateamer]

You know what, many departments settle for "less than perfect" recruits, and your little ignorant quote does not make sense. Someone who has done drugs like once or twice when they were very young and stupid can still be "very best" when it comes to be a LEO, they were not however perfect.
You aren't a deputy. You haven't even gotten through the hiring process yet. Why do you have a user name that implies you are a deputy? I have earned the title Deputy Sheriff, and have been on the job for 19 years. I have a few friends with Sac SO and they wouldn't think too highly of you posing, either.

[not-a-deputy-yet]

@@@@@@@@@@@@@

[not-a-deputy-yet]

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[johnnyReb]

Having the name "DeputyV" implies you are a cop. That in and of itself is misrepresenting who you are. Not everyone looks at profiles. A reasonable person on a law enforcement forum would assume that a poster with "Deputy" in their screen name is a deputy.

You knew exactly that when you created that name. You are nothing other then a poser. When you EARN the privelage to call yourself a deputy, and you see someone using "Deputy" in their screen name who has not earned that privelage, its nothing more then a slap in the face.

You are simply a poser.

[not-a-deputy-yet]

@@@@@@@@@@@@@

[ask80]

yes there are agencies out there that "might" have lower standards. i mean i did have an academy classmate get picked up in a city way out in the middle of no where in southern CA... and more like south east.. and he was kicked out of the previous academy class for evading, wreckless driving, failing to yield. etc... long story... and now he lateralled into a San Diego agency...

[mcguire4]

How exactly do you admit to smoking crack on a law enforcement forum and expect POSITIVE responses? We don't give advice to drug users...we ARREST them..

[spikeone66]

Sacramento Sheriff:

http://www.sacsheriff.com/organization/assistant_sheriff/recruiting/drug_standards.cfm

Cocaine,
Amphetamine,
Methamphetamine

No use within 5 years from application date and no more than 5 times.

[spikeone66]

You knew exactly that when you created that name. You are nothing other then a poser.

Have to call you on this one.... so "JohnnyReb" are you a racist... a member of Ku Klux Klan or just another poser?

So now we are way off topic... As far as names are concerned, it doesn't matter it's the goal he's set out to obtain... and I wish him luck.

[SgtCHP]

Age:

20-35 years of age (as of written test date).


Vision:

The candidate must read from a standard Eye Test chart.
If eyeglasses or hard contact lenses are worn, uncorrected vision must be no less than 20/40 in each eye and corrected to 20/20 in each eye. Applicants who have successfully worn soft contact lenses for the past 12 months are not required to meet an uncorrected standard, as long as their corrected vision is 20/20 in each eye. Normal color vision is required as assessed by the Farnsworth-Munsell D-15 test. An X-Chrom Lens is prohibited.


Health:

Good health. Must be free from any physical, mental or emotional condition that would prohibit the full performance of all the essential duties and functions of a CHP officer.


Education:
High school diploma, GED, or California High School Proficiency Examination.

Highly desirable: possession of a degree, Associate of Arts or higher, from an accredited college; also, additional course work or advanced skills in the following areas: English, including grammar, spelling, punctuation, vocabulary and composition; reading and comprehension; mathematics (used for traffic accident calculations); typing and computer skills (many officers use computers for reports, and most patrol vehicles currently have or will have computers); bilingual; physical fitness; other helpful courses may be social sciences such as sociology and psychology.


Conduct:

No felony convictions and good personal conduct; must possess a California driver license upon appointment to the Academy. The CHP has strict guidelines relating to the personal characteristics required for employment as a law enforcement officer. During the QAP Oral Interview, and later during the Background Investigation, a candidate is evaluated relative to an established set of automatic disqualification criteria. Candidates are asked questions relating to the RECENCY AND FREQUENCY of traffic citations, at-fault automobile collisions, illegal drug usage, arrests and convictions.

If you have any concerns regarding whether you may have an issue in your background which may lead to disqualification, it is highly recommended that you contact the CHP Applicant Investigation Unit for assistance PRIOR TO beginning the selection process. While our investigators cannot divulge the CHP's specific disqualification criteria, through a candid dialogue with you they can provide guidance and assistance in helping you evaluate your personal characteristics as they relate to the CHP's automatic disqualification criteria. The Cadet Hiring Unit can be reached Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. through 5:00 p.m. (Pacific Standard Time) at (916) 375-2180.


Citizenship:

United States Citizen or permanent resident immigrant who is eligible and has applied for citizenship; must be a United States citizen at time of appointment.

[hbliam]

Have to call you on this one.... so "JohnnyReb" are you a racist... a member of Ku Klux Klan or just another poser?

So now we are way off topic... As far as names are concerned, it doesn't matter it's the goal he's set out to obtain... and I wish him luck.


He might just like their food:

http://www.johnnyrebs.com/JR_Main.html

[MSoCal]

He might just like their food:

http://www.johnnyrebs.com/JR_Main.html

COOL, COMING SOON TO MY NECK OF THE WOODS ACCORDING TO THE WEBSITE!
Im hungry now
What the heck does this place have to do w/ the KKK you guys got me all confused now.

[ateamer]

If you think Southerners are all racists, you need to get down there and find out what it's really like. I bet you also believe the Civil War was mainly about slavery.

[johnnyReb]

If you think Southerners are all racists, you need to get down there and find out what it's really like. I bet you also believe the Civil War was mainly about slavery.

+1

[johnnyReb]

And for what it is worth, I'm white and my Girlfriend is black.

[mcguire4]

congrats....

[DOAcop38]

Does Maywood even hire recruits? Their website only mentioned Laterals and Academy trained.

small Dept- 25-35 officers min. but I think they are going closer to 50-60 officers due to expanded service area.they occasionally hire recruits when the officers leave or retire,but its just easier and sometimes cheaper to hire laterals and pre service personnel

[DOAcop38]

I am just wondering which one's will cut you the most slack, I mean I see some departments say if you ever done cocaine you will be automatically DQ some look at how long ago and how often and so on. I am in the process with a few NO California departments, and no I don't have a problem with drugs or ever had one. I've done/tried (smoked) cocaine ones when I was 16 (now 26) and tried marijuana like2-3 times at the same age. My main reason for asking this question is exactly what the title says but not just drugs, everything else.

If you are telling the "truth",then I don't think you will have a problem ( especially If you have never been arrested or in any other trouble) I really feel nowadays its about how you "present" yourself- yo go in and be truthful,but also able to show your maturity,then i think you can still do it.but be prepared to apply around and have your background seriously scrutinized. A H.S. bud of mines used to hang out and act "cool" with the trendy kids,and he used cocaine several times -when he was in his early '20s and applied for local depts (LAPD and LASD),he got turned down-it took several yrs working as a city park ranger(unarmed peace officers) before he went to a municipal PD-he's now a detective at a local so.Calif dept.you might have to work at an agency that might not be your first choice-maybe a small school PD,a state peace officer position other than CHP or fish and Game(ala DMH Hospital Police) then work for a better position later. One thing in your favcor is the fact that you were a "juvenile"-a big difference than if you wee an Adult and claiming those mistakes....

[spikeone66]

And for what it is worth, I'm white and my Girlfriend is black.

Ya'll miss the point... doesn't matter what you call your self... Doesn't matter if your black, white, brown, green or purple. A screen name means NOTHING; it's the person behind that name that counts...

:o

[spikeone66]

... Thank you for your comment HBliam. Sorry...

I'll just deleting my comment... and leaving the topic where it belongs... Thanks for putting it back into perspective

[hbliam]

OK guys take your argument to PM's. It's getting ***yawn**** boring.

[Garbage Man]

Deputyv,

I have read al the threads and agree you have been getting your balls busted. these guys are definitly screwing with you, just like the guys you will be working with if you do get hired. I am not saying its right, but it is reality nonetheless, and if you cant take it, it will severely undermine the amount of enjoyment you get out of the job. When someone busts your hump the first thing you have to do is laugh, then try to come back with a funnier retort. If you cant come up with one, a self dreprecating joke that is a little less funny will suffice.

[Whrzmud]

wow ya'll blew this one out of the original topic, does this forum have a Off Topic Board? cuz that is where this one belongs..

[MSoCal]

wow ya'll blew this one out of the original topic, does this forum have a Off Topic Board? cuz that is where this one belongs..

Indeed there is actually here's the link:
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72376



:D

[barkalot]

How exactly do you admit to smoking crack on a law enforcement forum and expect POSITIVE responses? We don't give advice to drug users...we ARREST them..

Straight up, mcguire, have you ever used marijuana? If so, you are a drug user, too. Those who live in glass houses...

Even if you haven't, I bet you also admire someone in your agency, who if they were honest, would admit to some kind of drug use or illicit behavior in their past.

As for him using "deputy" in his username, there are "deputy directors", "deputy sheriffs", "deputy editors", "deputy marshals", "deputy assessors", etc., etc., etc.

[hbliam]

This thread died the death it deserved a week ago. Why are you guys rehashing this crap? (no pun intended)

[ElDiabloJoe]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/eldiablojoe/dedhorse.gif

[ejay]

Ha! @ the above.

I used this ol' boy in the freemasons thread last year.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6457/beatdeadhorseaj3.gif

[Whrzmud]

Ha! @ the above.

I used this ol' boy in the freemasons thread last year.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6457/beatdeadhorseaj3.gif

that looks alot like me old horse......
/cry

[DOAcop38]

:D that looks alot like me old horse......
/cry
HEY!!! I "Know" that routine- thats wat my dept does to older(and MORE experienced)officers- currently its "better" to have EGO and be new and dumb as a rock,than actually "know" what to do(ditto if you are young and trying to learn the job--you get thrown under the bus with the old heads):eek: ..........

[s315346]

:D
HEY!!! I "Know" that routine- thats wat my dept does to older(and MORE experienced)officers- currently its "better" to have EGO and be new and dumb as a rock,than actually "know" what to do(ditto if you are young and trying to learn the job--you get thrown under the bus with the old heads):eek: ..........

Talk about a morale booster for the force:p

[not-a-deputy-yet]

@@@@@@@@@@@@@

[Rogerthump]

ok so I am back my former screen name of DeputyV was banned, now I am "not-a-deputy-yet" because some officers got offended :( how sad......anyways thanks to all who had my back in this thread, and to those who called me a "drug user", how pathetic and ignorant was that...I tried weed 3 times 11 years ago and I tried cocaine 11 years ago one time...oh my God!! I am a drug user I don't deserve to be in LE... oh well like one of the posts here said I should not be offended by this. I'm not offended anymore, I just know that there are many normal police officers out there, more normal officers and deputies then "not so normal" it has always been like that and always will be like that, that's life

And yet you've come back to complain. I don't think it was your screen name as much as it was your maturity level. Reading the above post reaffirms that. But heck, I'm not your BI so don't listen to me, or any of the other sworn peace officers on this forum. What do we know about maturity?

[ElDiabloJoe]

ok so I am back my former screen name of DeputyV was banned, now I am "not-a-deputy-yet" because some officers got offended :( how sad......anyways thanks to all who had my back in this thread, and to those who called me a "drug user", how pathetic and ignorant was that...I tried weed 3 times 11 years ago and I tried cocaine 11 years ago one time...oh my God!! I am a drug user I don't deserve to be in LE... oh well like one of the posts here said I should not be offended by this. I'm not offended anymore, I just know that there are many normal police officers out there, more normal officers and deputies then "not so normal" it has always been like that and always will be like that, that's life
YMMV and FWIW, I concur with RogerThumps statements.

Like your D.I. will tell you the first day, we have EARNED the right to that title and to wear that star. You have NOT EARNED that right. Yes, we take offense to your calling yourself Deputy-anything.

Your thin-skin and your constant whining are going to be your biggest obstacles (both traced to your apparent immaturity) in getting hired, through an academy, past FTO, and into your own radio car.

Good luck.

PS-- If you don't think that BIs from most major agencies aren't aware of this site and peruse it occasionally, you are living in Fantasyland. They are and they do, and they look at people here who are applying with their agencies, and they take impressions and opinions away with them from what you have written and how you have written it. FWIW.

PPS-- I'm not one to do this, but if you sufficiently ticked off someone here, don't think for a minute they won't cut/paste a link to this thread into an email and fire it off via email to Sacramento County's and CHP's Backgrounds Units, and whatever other agency they feel so motivated (how many have you mentioned being interested in in other posts?) against you. You would be wise to tread carefully. In fact if it were me, I'd mea culpa til the sun fell and then fall on my sword humbly, that's me. You do as you wish.

EDJ

[MSoCal]

Dont listen to them Not a deputy yet. They just bustin your testies, My honest advice to you would be to apply for Maywood CA PD. Worse Case Scenario you can apply for San Manuel Indian Reservation Casino and Bingo PD too. Heck you dont even need to be POST certified to get hired w/ them so your glass pipe crack cocaine experimentation 10 plus years ago wont affect their hiring decision. Dont worry, Im sure most "NORMAL" LEO's have smoked crack cocaine or maybe injected heroin one time or another in their lives because not doing so would cause an abnormality.

Good luck in your future endeavors

[DOAcop38]

deputy to be or not to be- please ,if you were NEVER arrested or sought treatment for smoking "rock" or meth -whatever-please DON'T admit to it-especially if you are "cured".Sadly I watch alot of folks along century blvd,near inglewood smoked out on rock-alot of them became addicts after the "first" hit,so please understand why that is a real scary issue in terms of hiring someone who has done that.in youth there are dumb "mistakes"(joyriding a stolen bucket,boozing while underaged) and then there are PLAIN JACKAZZ pitifully WRONG actions- smoking cocaine is one of them.Being a LEO isn't the only job in the world-there are civilian jobs in L.E.,but those also require a modicum of a decent background values...

[mcguire4]

ahh... DOAcop38, the voice of reason!!! PM ME I HAVE A QUESTION

[jt32485]

DOA, although you advise the original poster not to admit his prior drug use, that is not an option due to the fact that he already admitted it to one department, therefore his BI will have easy access to the info anyway, unless he just decides not to tell his new BI of his application with the dept he was DQ'ed from... and the web gets bigger and bigger...

[not-a-deputy-yet]

Just an FYI to all who may be interested I took a poly today and passed it with flying colors. I passed it by simply telling the truth to what I have already disclosed, specifically about my cocaine smoking that 1 time 11 years ago and for smoking marijuana around same time. This in it self is NOT an auto DQ with most departments, especially if that person has no criminal records, has never been arrested and is a good person over all. I have answered all questions truthfuly in other matters, and the poly administrator was satisfied my results.

[hbliam]

Just an FYI to all who may be interested I took a poly today and passed it with flying colors. I passed it by simply telling the truth to what I have already disclosed, specifically about my cocaine smoking that 1 time 11 years ago and for smoking marijuana around same time. This in it self is NOT an auto DQ with most departments, especially if that person has no criminal records, has never been arrested and is a good person over all. I have answered all questions truthfuly in other matters, and the poly administrator was satisfied my results.

You smoked crack, told the truth, and passed a poly? Whoop de do. You looking for some kind of award or something? Just means the standards at the department's you are looking at suck.

I think you ought to go back to your old posts like this one.

"@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@"

Which by the way didn't appear until EDJ gave you a clue about the ignorance and arrogance of your past posts. But alas you are right back to it.

[Bearcat357]

You smoked crack, told the truth, and passed a poly? Whoop de do. You looking for some kind of award or something? Just means the standards at the department's you are looking at suck.

Note to self....If I ever go back to uniform.....find out what agency he applied for....and not apply with them.....

WoW.... :eek:

[not-a-deputy-yet]

Obviously I left a bad taste in all your mouths. The good thing is that you guys work great as team on this forum. If anyone thinks I am proud of my mistakes in my past, let me tell you, I am not. This forum does give me an inside look about what kind of people I will be working with one day. Some mistakes haunt people for life, however is some cases people that made mistakes are still given a chance I think to prove them selfs in all other aspects of life. Thank you all for letting me know what kind of people I will face at work, that just helps me build thicker skin and go on and get the career that I want.

[hbliam]

Obviously I left a bad taste in all your mouths. The good thing is that you guys work great as team on this forum. If anyone thinks I am proud of my mistakes in my past, let me tell you, I am not. This forum does give me an inside look about what kind of people I will be working with one day. Some mistakes haunt people for life, however is some cases people that made mistakes are still given a chance I think to prove them selfs in all other aspects of life. Thank you all for letting me know what kind of people I will face at work, that just helps me build thicker skin and go on and get the career that I want.

So you are insulting us again?

You just don't get it do you? You told us your deal and we told you how we felt about it. Since you didn't like the answer you insulted us. Now you come back bragging that you passed a poly even though you smoked crack and want us to embrace you with open arms? I never said you should never be "forgiven" for smoking crack. I said I doubt you will get hired having done that. I am more concerned with your attitude at this point then stuff you did 10 years prior.

You have to understand that you can't just show up amongst cops and demand to be accepted. You need to earn it. You seem to think we owe you something.

[not-a-deputy-yet]

So you are insulting us again?

You just don't get it do you? You told us your deal and we told you how we felt about it. Since you didn't like the answer you insulted us. Now you come back bragging that you passed a poly even though you smoked crack and want us to embrace you with open arms? I never said you should never be "forgiven" for smoking crack. I said I doubt you will get hired having done that. I am more concerned with your attitude at this point then stuff you did 10 years prior.

You have to understand that you can't just show up amongst cops and demand to be accepted. You need to earn it. You seem to think we owe you something.

Insult YOU hbliam? ! God forbid I do that, it sounds like you are the BIG man here. It also sounds like you are perfect and have been perfect when you were young too. We need more cops like you, cops that have thick skin, have been through alot and do not get offended or insulted easily. As far as insulting anyone else on here, I don't think that's my intention. I don't think anyone here owes me anything, well maybe some of them could go ahead and arrest some drug users, I am sure there are a few in every department, I don't mean that they use drugs right now, but have in the past. That still makes them drug users right? Of course it does, one of the posts said that on here previously. One last thing for those cops here who are and were perfect and never tried any drug, I am jealous, I really am. I wish I never would have either, and to show my regrets, after I have tried the drugs, I have never ever tried them again, never been around them, heck never even saw any drugs.

[madchiken]

I love it, there are guys who are having trouble getting a job due to traffic tickets and this guy thinks departments are just gonna overlook smoking crack...

Do you not realize you admited to commiting a felony? Im not sure how CA's POST works, maybe someone could chime in, but in FL even if the dept OK's your BI the state can still DQ you.

[not-a-deputy-yet]

I love it, there are guys who are having trouble getting a job due to traffic tickets and this guy thinks departments are just gonna overlook smoking crack...

Do you not realize you admited to commiting a felony? Im not sure how CA's POST works, maybe someone could chime in, but in FL even if the dept OK's your BI the state can still DQ you.

Chicken I mean "madchicken" It works the same in CA, that's why I am "not a deputy yet" state or the hiring board can still DQ me, I hope they won't, but they may. Does that mean I should give up? No that's not what it means to me. I have been on few ride alongs with a few different depts. I have went on a ride along with an excellent Sgt. who said he had a DUI before. I have talked to officers and deputies who had used drugs before and are execellent cops right now. The only reason that they became LEOs is because they admitted to their wrong doings, showed improvement and remorse for what they did, and changed their lifestyle. Man I keep on telling mydelf I should let this thread go, but can't, anyways I am done with it.

[Stugotz]

Perhaps a moderator should close this thread.

It's devolved into insults and bickering, not discussion.

???

[Bearcat357]

Obviously I left a bad taste in all your mouths. The good thing is that you guys work great as team on this forum. If anyone thinks I am proud of my mistakes in my past, let me tell you, I am not. This forum does give me an inside look about what kind of people I will be working with one day. Some mistakes haunt people for life, however is some cases people that made mistakes are still given a chance I think to prove them selfs in all other aspects of life. Thank you all for letting me know what kind of people I will face at work, that just helps me build thicker skin and go on and get the career that I want.

You smoked crack.... I don't want to work with you....and I am sure the folks that work for the agency you are trying to get on feel the same way....

Big difference btwn a crack smoker and a drunk driver..... Both shouldn't work as a LEO......but one isn't as bad as the other in my book......

[MSoCal]

Well, Congrads for passing the poly.
Moderator: pls close this thread. :eek:

[DOAcop38]

DOA, although you advise the original poster not to admit his prior drug use, that is not an option due to the fact that he already admitted it to one department, therefore his BI will have easy access to the info anyway, unless he just decides not to tell his new BI of his application with the dept he was DQ'ed from... and the web gets bigger and bigger...

maybe I should have rephrased it- I meant that bad part of their life shouldn't be "harped on" to much until it has to be revealed-anyone that comes out saying first off ,"I'm really interested in becoming a LEO,but I smoked crack", or would "I have worked hard to become a mature person,have a good job record,and completed my education,oh- and yes- I was immature in my earlier yrs and had a moment of experimentation with narcotics" sound alot better.I was just saying-and considering- the "i'm free to do what I want generation", this is what we are going to be in a patrol car with .I was riding with a newbie a few months back and saw a gangster blasting his car radio-I wanted to pull the punk over but the newbie I was riding with ( Who happened to be driving) had every excuse in the world for NOT stopping the thug,including" I play my music loud when I'm off duty"-this is just a paycheck to this new generation-plain and simple....