hospital duty no firearms for c/o's

[ftlaudcop]

state of idahoe

prison system ????

guard prisoners w/o firearms ????

tell me this ain't happening !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

[robeans]

state of idahoe

prison system ????

guard prisoners w/o firearms ????

tell me this ain't happening !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

Maybe it's just me, but what are you talking about?

[ArkansasFan24]

where the heck is "idahoe?" lol ;)

and i'm with robeans

[ignignokt373]

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69040

[aqfyn3st]

in nYc hospital police dont even carry paper spray if this hapened in ny it would have been worse

[Mr. CO]

When I am sitting at the hospital, only thing I have is handcuffs for protection. Although the inmate is handcuffed to the bed but we all know how good that can be. I am not armed with anything that would do major damage. Unless you talk about my size 11 shoe coming out and open a can of whoop *****.

[VtCo]

We don't have any weapons at all in the state of Vermont except for I believe two outside perimeter posts (they carry Glock pistols). The rest of us are unarmed at all times. A very special few get to carry OC but that's it.

[SHU]

When I did hospital trips in N.C we had a side arm, baton and pepper foam. The I/M was cuffed on one arm and one leg on the opposite side from the arm. If he acted up he got beat up and then placed in four points for the duration of his stay or returned to the prison hospital to die. Sadly if these steps were taken this officer would probably still be alive. God bless him and his family.

[UTCorSGT]

Sadly it is obvious we use firearms in Utah for hospital transports.

I will say there is no reason you should not be armed when transporting one of these pieces of work. They are willing to do anything to get what they want.

Really starting to believe in the "shoot first ask questions later" mind set.

[hankrearden2000]

At the Federal Correctional Institution in El Reno, OK from 1992 to 2002 we were not allowed to routinely carry weapons on transports, and it was a medium level institution. BOP policy does not require weapons for In Custody inmates, so the administration would not authorize them except in a few special cases. El Reno had a strong union and Bureau administrators hated the officers there for that reason and disarming them was one of the ways that administartors could punish the staff because administrators were such inept negotiators.

Unfortunately, under federal labor relations law, the security practices of an agency is not a subject that the agency is required to negotiate with the union on, so it was impossible to fix. Impossible until the ****birds were finally replaced with administrators who are a bit more pro-staff than those who came to power in the late '80s and early '90s.

[TexasAggieOfc]

Nebraska DCS: No firearms, except on 'special' cases, but those 'special' cases were relayed to the Nebraska State Patrol and the local agency (LPD, OPD, etc.)

I won't discuss my current county's set up

[TX_DTO_77]

I won't discuss my current county's set up

You mean we got to keep quiet corporal??

[SheriffJailer1]

Anytime we leave our facility on a hospital transport, we are required to have 2 armed officers. Inmate is cuffed and shackled at all times. It amazes me that there are agencies that will not arm their officers when they are out in the community with an inmate. God bless this officer and his family. Hopefully justice will be served.

This inmate looks just like one that was interviewed by that show Lockup. I saw it a few days ago. I believe at the time of the interview, this inmate was in seg for being a highly active gang member. I don't know if it is the same animal, but if it is, why was this officer by himself on this transport?

[CO1259]

Where I work, there are also 2 ARMED officers sent on each trip. Plus the driver to get us to and from the hospital. Inmates wear cuffs, a waist chain and leg irons. And it's up to OUR discretion whether or not to uncuff for procedures, not a doc, nurse or anyone else.

[ksbrewer]

Not only do you have to worry about the POS you're watching, but you also have to worry about his family or friends showing up.

[TexasAggieOfc]

You mean we got to keep quiet corporal??

I'm keeping quiet, you say whatever you want! :D

[correctionsguy]

well said KSbrewer. That's the part of this whole "no firearms in community/public" issue that I will never ever be able to wrap my mind around. The logic to these administrators is that if there is no weapon, the inmate can't get it away from the CO. What they fail to realize with this retarded way of thinking is that the CO is now naked and cannot protect themselves from an attacking family member, friend, random person etc. The crazy thing is that you'd think the hug a thug admin types would at least arm their CO's and say it's for the inmates protection from adversaries or victim's families. I guess I'll never understand the type of person it takes to put a CO in a facility with hundreds of convicts without the proper tools and will also send that CO on a transport with a convict with no protection or firearm. This should be illegal.

[AM101]

I dream of the day that technology will enable us to have weapons that can be outfitted with thumb/fingerprint identification. Gun would automatically lock in cons hands and taser the **** out of them until they drop the gun.

If we can send people to the moon and float satellites in space and have gps in every soldiers helmet (already in iraq) this cant be too far off. All Law Enforcement should have military grade technology at their disposal.

[AM101]

Check out the cornershot:

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/future-weapons/weapons/zone1/corner-shot-40.html

combining a swivel barrel with a video sighting array, this aptly named weapons system allows the operator to observe and fire at a target around corners without exposing himself to enemy fire. The barrel can rotate up to 63 degrees to the left or right, and the video/thermal imaging feed can be transmitted to team members.

In the latest version (shown here), the weapon is fitted with a 40mm grenade launcher, but the stock and mount can actually accept a range of small arms types, including 9mm handguns, the M-16 and smoke grenade launchers. Its Israeli designers and other experts see great potential for the weapon in anti-terrorist operations.

[ab04]

Well being an Idaho officer I can tell you, we dont even wear are duty belts most times. We do have side arms when transporting to the hospital but once they are admited and in a room the on duty officer just watch's no fire arm or OC.

AB

[Kiss Me Deadly]

My county does medical transports with two officers. The officer in the room has cuffs and OC, and the officer in the hallway has the good ol' H&K 45.

If transported by ambulance, an unarmed officer rides along and is joined at the hospital by an armed deputy from patrol.

[PRIME EVIL]

During transports, we are armed with an ASP, pepper spray and a glock model 22 (.40 cal). During high security transports we also take a shotgun or two (when those ER doctors see the shotguns, we get expressed right along) =)

[SHU]

No firearms on transport? Man I would quit that job. They are not going to send me into my death. Have any of these retards ever heard of a set up?The stupidity of correctional administrators across this country is mind-boggling.

[Hack]

No firearms on transport? Man I would quit that job. They are not going to send me into my death. Have any of these retards ever heard of a set up?The stupidity of correctional administrators across this country is mind-boggling.

There are both inept and good correctional administrators. However, right now we're suffering.

[kc7vlu]

I work for a county Jail in Idaho and we always do transports to the hospital or for a doctor's appointment armed we also can carry OC when we are certified. I wouldn't want to do a transport without being armed. that is a personal decision on my part.

[USPKY]

At the USP we usually had 5 armed officers on transport. Ive seen more than one case where the SORT team was on transport armed with MP5's.

[TX_CO]

We do transports all the time, I carry OC spray, S&W .357 mag revolver as the armed officer, the unarmed officer carries OC spray and remains in the room with the I/M I am posted outside the door.

When we do transports between units both officers are armed with pistols and shotguns.

Use of force to include deadly force is authorized to prevent escape or serious bodily injury. It is my duty to protect the public from the I/M and the I/M from the public as well. Our post orders state that if we do not use our weapons when necessary then we have failed in our primary responsibility of safeguarding the general public.

The incident that claimed the life of that Officer should serve to reinforce the need for more firearms and tactical skills training for CO's in addition to better equipment.

I qualify with my weapons every 6 months and regularly work armed posts, our administration requires that freeworld transports be done by experienced officers assigned to the Perimeter Security Team, who work with the weapons on a regular basis.

[onceamarine]

state of idahoe

prison system ????

guard prisoners w/o firearms ????

tell me this ain't happening !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

This is insane, why would you guard a prisoner in the hospital without a weapon?
A prisoner is a prisoner, hospital or not, he will try an escape attempt. Lets just say a prisoner in the hospital does try to escape. Well, it would be hard to prevent him from escaping WITHOUT A WEAPON! :eek:

[robeans]

The problem is that they don't teach most CO'S any weapons retention, so if your the only dude with the inmate and you have a weapon, it's his skills/strength against yours. This happens to cops very frequently, and they live and breath weapon retention/proximity. "Nearly one in five officers killed as part of a crime last year were shot with their own (or a partner’s) weapon" (quote from a 2004 study).

That's why the best, and only system in my mind, is to have two officers at all times, one with a weapon that always keeps distance, and one unarmed officer to interact with the inmate. That's how we do it here in WA and it seems to work well. The one officer with a weapon thing doesn't work well as we have seen over the last couple of years.

BTW I'm not speaking for individual skills, some of us could roll by our selves with a weapon, but over all it's a bad idea.

[VACOP1]

SheriffJailer,,
Anytime we leave our facility on a hospital transport, we are required to have 2 armed officers. Inmate is cuffed and shackled at all times. It amazes me that there are agencies that will not arm their officers when they are out in the community with an inmate. God bless this officer and his family. Hopefully justice will be served.

Sounds Like you work for Onon Co. The do it the way it should be done

[NCDOC3740]

On hospital transports we have 2 officers.
1 armed with (now) a s&W 40.
and pepper foam.
the other officer who is in the room with the inmate carries pepper foam.
the inmate is usually shackled. (or cuffed) depends on why he is in
the hospital. and we call back to the prison every hour and report in.

[Dawg]

I know here in Oklahoma the only time we go armed to a hospital is when the inmate is medium security or higher.

[GoHard]

When I am sitting at the hospital, only thing I have is handcuffs for protection. Although the inmate is handcuffed to the bed but we all know how good that can be. I am not armed with anything that would do major damage. Unless you talk about my size 11 shoe coming out and open a can of whoop *****.

In TX we can't handcuff inmates to a hospital bed or any stationary object inside the hospital or inside the prison.

We can carry foam based chemical agents and an officer will be armed outside the hospital room.

[Mr. CO]

GoHard,

I don't know if I would trust an inmate who is not handcuffed to the bed. Especially, if I am not in the room. We sit right there with the inmate, we are not allowed to sit out in the hall unless the inmate is extremely sick.

If an inmate is in SEG, he is even handcuffed to the bed if he is in our own infirmary.

[correctionsguy]

robeans,
there is a flaw in your practice. What happens when there is an escape attempt and the armed officer is taken out? Now there is an unarmed officer with no personal protection weapon. The same question could be asked if there were an attempt on the inmates life. What would you do if you saw to officers, one with weapon and one without? Wouldn't you take out the one with the weapon first?

The sound policy would be to have two armed officers, one keeping away from the inmate and the other exercising sound weapons retention/proximity procedures.

It doesn't make sense to send an unarmed officer with an armed one, all that does is place the unarmed officer in a position to depend upon the other officer for protection, which is silly if you ask me. Each officer should be able to depend on themselves, i.e. be armed, as well as each other.

[robeans]

robeans,
there is a flaw in your practice. What happens when there is an escape attempt and the armed officer is taken out? Now there is an unarmed officer with no personal protection weapon. The same question could be asked if there were an attempt on the inmates life. What would you do if you saw to officers, one with weapon and one without? Wouldn't you take out the one with the weapon first?

The sound policy would be to have two armed officers, one keeping away from the inmate and the other exercising sound weapons retention/proximity procedures.

It doesn't make sense to send an unarmed officer with an armed one, all that does is place the unarmed officer in a position to depend upon the other officer for protection, which is silly if you ask me. Each officer should be able to depend on themselves, i.e. be armed, as well as each other.

I think you make a good point, but what I'm talking about is policy and procedure that currently exists. Until all CO's are trained in weapons retention and have proper training on deadly use of force, the 1 armed 1 unarmed is still the best system. I think 1 person is a horrible idea, and a weapon is a great deterrent. One armed and one unarmed is the best practice out there until training is up to par.

One thing to also think about is what's more important, officer safety or stopping an escape? I think that plays into some of this.

[TXCO1]

It is quite obvious that we are all expendable. Look at your own riot policies. Our number one job is to prevent escape.

In Texas we do the one armed and one unarmed officer routine. If you are in a room that is only slightly bigger than a cell, why would you want to be armed with anything more than pepper spray? All the training in the world is no match to an imate that has nothing to lose. When we do ours, the armed officer sits right outside the open door so he can see the inmate and the other officer. The one inside checks the hand and leg cuffs every 15 minutes. We have to get supervisor permission to take them off, or the Dr. has to sign a medical order. The officer with the weapon should always have his body between the inmate and his weapon.

I do not like the idea of having weapons for both. If you have an inmate take out both officers with only two shots, you then have a loose inmate with 10 rounds left.

The only perfect solution is to never let them go to a free world hospital.

[correctionsguy]

the two armed is a good idea, here's a perfect example:

you go to the hospital on a run. The inmate says he's having chest pain, which we all know are the magic words to get out the gate. You the unarmed officer ride along in the ambulance and your partner the armed officer trails in a vehicle. You arrive at the hospital emergency dock area and prepare to exit the ambulance and your armed partner parks close by and prepares to trail you into the ER.

Your partner steps out of the vehicle and boom, ambush by the inmates gangbanger homeboys. He takes a hit and goes down, what do you do?

Well, if you had a firearm you would draw and protect yourself, your partner, and the stupid inmate, but since you are unarmed you just get shot.

This situation isn't far fetched. There are plenty of inmates that could set this up in a days time, Two armed officers if not simply for personal protection, is the way to go.

[TX_CO]

We go armed on the ambulances and life flight when necessary, there is no chase vehicle, inmate in full restraints, unarmed officer with EMT in back armed officer up front with driver.

if it is a seg inmate then there is a Sgt and 2 CO's that go.

[lifesaver1]

I don't know what facility AB04 works at but at the maximum facility we always wear our duty belts. I had to pull my spray numerous times and would not have been anywhere ouside the control room w/o my belt.

I worked at max for a year and when trips to the hospital are need by a staff memebr at Max at least one Glock is in tow the whoile time the inmate is not in a cell.