What is the best Hicap 45acp?

[Nightshift va]

I love the XD45 Tactical but for the price now that went up I might just might as well get the USP or the MK23 H&K. SO here are my choices give me some input and opinions especially those who have shot them.

XD Tactical-H&K anything-Taurus Pro24/7(Price just too hard to ignore at $419!) and finally the new Para LDA Hi-cap .

[stangfather]

Para-Ordnance?

[SGeringer]

Kind of depends on what your needs are I guess......the HK Mk23 is joked at as being the "original crew-served handgun" and probably isn't cross-shopped much with the XD45, which is my favorite high-capacity .45. That grip size and balance makes it oh-so-easy to shoot, and that trigger is to me much easier to shoot well than GLOCK's (though I love GLOCKs).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/SGeringer/xdpics005.jpg

[Old Dog]

I have carried a 1911 in one variety or another for nearly 20 years. GI models, Mil-Spec models, Operators, Kimbers, Colts, Springfield Armory. I've carried a Sig P220, early on (wish I had that one back).

I've held but never fired a G21. I own and shoot the XD 45 ACP in the long slide and compact models (I own them but don't carry them on duty). They come very close to the "crew-served" catagory because they are fairly large weapons . . . even the compact . . . but I have never fired any 45 ACP that is as accurate, soft recoiling and utterly reliable as the XD 45 ACP (at least the two that I own).

Ask some of the guys from Tucson PD how they feel about the HK handguns. I can't comment because I have no personal knowledge of them but I was the victim of volumnious tirade by a lieutenant from Tucson PD one day at FATs 4 school in Phoenix (edit: back in 2001 or 2002). I thought this guy was going to cry before he ceased his childish tirade and all I did was make the mistake of asking how they liked their HKs. I pity the guys who work for that dude.

XDs are big but they work.

[SRT936]

I love the Glock 21. I carried one for years and is probably my favorite handgun of them all. I have yet to experience the XD45, but am very intrigued by it. As far as the Para LDA, don't. It seems like a good idea, but the trigger falls very short in practice. Its nearly impossible to get it to fire smoothly. If you want a 1911 style gun, you can get a high-cap version in a standard SA. Its much better then the LDA.

[boomstik45]

The LDA has a nice trigger, but I don't have much experience with it. In a 1911 configuration, I'd still go with a single action.

The HK USP is a very nice gun, but the trigger is not (in my opinion) nearly what it should be for that price or what you'd expect from an "elite" brand name. Sig, Springfield XD, Glock, Smith and Wesson M&P, Beretta....all better triggers. The MK23 is easily bigger than all of these too. Even the XD tactical, which is shorter than a glock 34 or 35.

The XD went up in popularity, and so it did in price. Especially the tactical version. But it's still not in the HK price range. And like some others have said here, it's a very sweet shooting pistol. The tactical is just as nice if not nicer. I'm considering getting the compact tactical. You get a ten round mag and a 13 rounder with the grip sleeve. The grip sleeve works so much better on the XD than it does on the glock (glock 30 w/glock 21 mags). I say go with the XD if you like it's features.

[132nBush]

Another vote here for the Glock 21, or, the new Glock 21 SF if that suites your hands better. If you are looking for a 1911-style gun, you can't go wrong with an STI, although they are significantly more than Glocks and SAs.

[Enikad]

The Mark 23 is a huge gun, just massive. And last time I looked into it, at least in California, its Military Only. I'd be surprised to see one, well ever. Only time I've seen them is in photo's of SOCOM Operators.

The XD is really nice, but since i discovered the .45 Barrel for the M&P I can care less, since I like my M&P so much better. The XD however has a big quip with me, its loud as all hell! I mean I know its silly complaining about a gun being loud but good god, that four inch barrel kills your ear drum, even with double plugs and muffs the thing is like being punched in the face. Its why I prefer the Springfield Armory 1911's, not to mention I have dumb luck with em everytime, removing the center of my targets, after the first two shots I shoot wander off to the left, the rest are just dead center, its like the weirdest thing, happens everytime too.

[Bigg Dogg]

Another vote for the Glock 21.Been carrying the same 21 for 9 years now.Love the gun.

[Sleuth]

I carried .45's for years, usually a 1911 style until we became 'retroactivly incompetent' and Single Action guns were a no-no. I went to the SIG 220. If it has to be a high cap, I like the S/A Para Ords. If it has to be D/A, SIG 220. I never saw the need for a high cap D/A .45, but I was an investigator.

If this is a carry gun, choose the one that fits your hand best - you are only betting the rest of your life on it. A toy can be anything you like.

[EMVAMPYRE]

I've been carrying an H&K USP for the past 6 years or so. I don't see any problem with the trigger as listed by boomstick45. It's a great gun, and I, personally, shoot it very well. One thing I like quite a bit, are the factory trintium night sites. Very solid and deputy proof, if you know what I mean.

Glock makes a fine weapon, about as idiot proof a design as you can ask for. I have not personally used one, but know a number of folks who have and they swear by it.

Find a range in your area where you can rent some guns and put some rounds down range through a variety of weapons. See for yourself.

Oh, as for the H&K MK23, you wont find one very easily, and you sure wont find a duty holster for it. It's pretty huge, and not really sutible for uniformed duty carry. Unless you are in 10-8 in Iraq!

[Ghostrider_RSA]

GLOCK 21/21SF
HK USP 45/45 Tactical
No experience with the Springfield XD, however any of these three as standard stock firearms would be good choices.

A good custom 1911 would be nice too.

[jwise]

I started off my career carrying an H&K USP 45F. It was a beautiful firearm (stainless steel slide), but it failed me ergonomically. I opted for the Glock 21 and have been carrying one since.

[boomstik45]

EMVAMPYRE,

it's just my personal opinion. I feel like the HK trigger could be better. Now the LEM trigger they have IS better. When it came to DA, I've always liked the Sig triggers better than the HKs. Same with the Beretta PX4. Don't know why, just how I see it.

As for the Glock 21, I've had a hard time keeping hold of it since the XD .45 came out. I can handle either weapon just fine, but the XD is slimmer. The Glock probably still shoots a bit softer, but I've not had a chance to compare them side by side. I WOULD, however, love to get my hands on a 21SF and see how it feels. My hands are big enough for just about any pistol I pick up, but the XD feels pretty darn good and shoots great. Still, never had ANYTHING bad to say about a G21. Damn fine gun. And I may have to just come back to it one day....maybe soon.

[EMVAMPYRE]

That LEM trigger is pretty cool. I would need to have quite a bit of range time with it before I was truly comfortable with it though.

I understand about personal preference and the H&K trigger. I personally like it when compared with the trigger on the Beretta 92FS that my department issues.

[stangfather]

oops i took the title to mean .45 1911 style handgun...

Glock, Sig and Xd get my vote..

since the German made Walther P99 doesnt come in .45 :(

S&W 99 does tho.. :mad:

[sig fan]

oops i took the title to mean .45 1911 style handgun...

Glock, Sig and Xd get my vote..

since the German made Walther P99 doesnt come in .45 :(

S&W 99 does tho.. :mad:

I take it you feel that the Walther version of the 99 is better than the S&W version? What makes it better?

[jwise]

That LEM trigger is pretty cool. I would need to have quite a bit of range time with it before I was truly comfortable with it though.

I understand about personal preference and the H&K trigger. I personally like it when compared with the trigger on the Beretta 92FS that my department issues.

I really liked the LEM trigger on my USP45F. Perhaps moreso than the tirgger on my Glocks.

I just couldn't get the slide to lock back reliably.

[Bearcat357]

I like my G-21.......actually love it.....

I have buddies that USPs and SIGs.....

You should go try to fire a couple and see what fits your hands best and what you feel good at shooting....then go from there.....

[Bighead]

+1 for the Glock.

I actually just borrowed an XD45 to try it out, and the reason it is so popular is the reason it doesn't work as well for me. I'm 6'5 and have large hands. The slim frame on the XD puts my index finger to far forward for what I'm used to. I think its an excellent weapon, and with some use I would get used to the grip to trigger distance. (When I was in police academy I went from Glock 21 to issued Glock 22 and had the same issue. After 2 weeks on the range and 2000+ rounds fired, the 22 felt right and the 21 felt kinda alien...its all in what you're used to I guess.)

After the Glock and the XD, I would have to say the H&K USP. Like other posters here, I don't see the MK23 in this league.

[Austin HiPowers]

Perhaps the new H&K 45 (seen a pic from the 2007 Shot show)

[KenW.]

To me, a high-cap .45 is a 1911 with an 8-round mag.

[boomstik45]

Ken,

Now I just was not at all surprised to hear that from you. :D Although, considering the fact that most full size 1911s have standard 7 rd mags, if hi-cap means an 8-rounder...I can only laugh! But it's a laugh of amusement, not ridicule.

Bighead,

Did you notice the difference in triggers between the XD and the Glock? I suppose that's my only real hang-up with the XD. The Glock has a quicker, more precise trigger reset. THe XD's reset is noticeably longer, at least to me. I found myself not able to fire as quickly. Although, as you mentioned, with time that can and will change. The crank of it is, to get the same kind of performance trigger-wise, I'd have to send the XD in and have it worked on. Bummer...

All in all, it's hard to not go with the Glock. I can work on it if required/desired, it's a great .45 platform, and it's a very durable .45. I may have just talked myself into another one. :rolleyes:

[KenW.]

Now I just was not at all surprised to hear that from you. Although, considering the fact that most full size 1911s have standard 7 rd mags, if hi-cap means an 8-rounder...I can only laugh! But it's a laugh of amusement, not ridicule.

CMC makes a good 10 rounder too.

[boomstik45]

Didn't know that. Good to know, though. Been looking lately at a Springfield Loaded 1911 with night sights.

[stangfather]

I take it you feel that the Walther version of the 99 is better than the S&W version? What makes it better?


i dont know if its better per se, but i know i like action better.. i shot them both back to back and the Walther felt more refined and better assembled, i dunno...

the grip isnt exactly the same either, jsut look athem side by side and you can tell, the SW99 looks alot more like the Steyer than the W99..imo

kinda like the difference between a GMC and Chevy, i just prefer the German made version...


i own the .40 right now.
ill probably buy a 9mm version too, once i get some other stuff paid for.

[Kashihara]

1. HK USP in .45

2. HK Mk 23, although incredibly expensive, excessively large and not easily found.

3. Kimber Custom II series of 1911s

[boomstik45]

The Walther is probably the better version mostly because it's parts are better matched. The Smith version has more Smith parts that don't match as well (refinement-wise) with the German parts. Let's just say that the engineering isn't the same, so what you get is not identical twins...more like fraternal twins.

[boomstik45]

J-Wise,

Had a friend with a USP .45 that had the same problem. It turned out to be the mags. We took them apart and stretched out the springs: problem solved. I personally had the same experience with a Walther P99 QA. I sold it for the same reason. I got tired of a weapon that was expensive, with expensive mags to boot...not having the quality that I expected. Never, ever had that problem with any Glock, oddly enough.

[stangfather]

J-Wise,

Had a friend with a USP .45 that had the same problem. It turned out to be the mags. We took them apart and stretched out the springs: problem solved. I personally had the same experience with a Walther P99 QA. I sold it for the same reason. I got tired of a weapon that was expensive, with expensive mags to boot...not having the quality that I expected. Never, ever had that problem with any Glock, oddly enough.


certain early build factory Walther mags had some issues with the followers or springs, they were warrantied by the factory if i remember correctly..

should have gotten new mags, ive put over 1000 rounds thru mine and ive NEVER had failure, from Cor-Bon to Wolf and everything in between.. :D

[jwise]

J-Wise,

Had a friend with a USP .45 that had the same problem. It turned out to be the mags. We took them apart and stretched out the springs: problem solved. I personally had the same experience with a Walther P99 QA. I sold it for the same reason. I got tired of a weapon that was expensive, with expensive mags to boot...not having the quality that I expected. Never, ever had that problem with any Glock, oddly enough.

Funny you mention that. I replaced all my mag springs w/ Wolff Xtra power springs, and still the slide would not reliably lock back. I was left with the probability that my thumbs were hitting the (stock) extended slide release inadvertently.

I dumped the pistol for a Glock 21 when I started having dreams of pulling the trigger on a badguy, but only "short-stroking" the trigger. The LEM trigger pull was still a lot longer than the Glock trigger. I never actually short-stroked the trigger during live fire drills, but it did happen with my S&W 5906. Being a 1911 fan, I was used to the short, crisp, trigger-pull of my Kimber Pro CDP.

The last reason I prefer the Glock over the H&K (and Sig for that matter) is the low bore heighth. The H&K and Sig handguns have more "muzzle flip" due to this, and I always look "under" the sights when coming up on target. Again, being used to my 1911 pistols (which have a similar bore heighth as the Glock), I had a hard time transitioning to the H&K or Sig.

In the end, I don't think there was ever anything "wrong" with my H&K, it just failed me "ergonomically" on three major points.

[boomstik45]

J-Wise,

hey, the gun just wasn't for you. If it doesn't fit you right all the way, why have it? Much less carry it....Especially if you haven't had the same problem with other weapons. And I'm with you on the bore axis thing. The first time I fired the USP, I was like "WHAT recoil reduction system?! This thing is hopping all over the place compared to the Glock!" In fact, although there's definitely more force felt, the G20 with full power loads seemed to flip less than the USP. Had no problems controlling either weapon, seeing as how I'm a not a small fella and have paws for hands. But the HK does flip more. Funny, although the Sig has a not-so-low bore axis, I always shot it good, better than the HK. OH well. Just got my hands on the first M&P .45 to get to the shop. Ooohhhh...nice. Still probably going to get a G21 or G21 SF though. But that Smith is Niiiiice. Too bad mag capacity isn't as good yet.

[sig fan]

J-Wise,

hey, the gun just wasn't for you. If it doesn't fit you right all the way, why have it? Much less carry it....Especially if you haven't had the same problem with other weapons. And I'm with you on the bore axis thing. The first time I fired the USP, I was like "WHAT recoil reduction system?! This thing is hopping all over the place compared to the Glock!" In fact, although there's definitely more force felt, the G20 with full power loads seemed to flip less than the USP. Had no problems controlling either weapon, seeing as how I'm a not a small fella and have paws for hands. But the HK does flip more. Funny, although the Sig has a not-so-low bore axis, I always shot it good, better than the HK. OH well. Just got my hands on the first M&P .45 to get to the shop. Ooohhhh...nice. Still probably going to get a G21 or G21 SF though. But that Smith is Niiiiice. Too bad mag capacity isn't as good yet.

Do tell about the M&P 45. I'm very curious about it. Did you shoot the one with the frame mounted safety?

[boomstik45]

Haven't shot it yet, planning on Monday morning or afternoon. Haven't shot the 9mm, only the .40 version. Beats the dog crap out of most .40s I've shot, and I've shot some of what I consider the best. I'll put it like this: shot it next to the HK compact .40, Beretta PX4 .40, Glock 22, SigPro 2340, and Walther P99QA .40. The HK and Glock were closer than the others. The XD .40, which I previously failed to mention, was even closer. But the Smith was clearly handling the .40 better than any of the others, even the low-bore axis Glock. Clearly. And the mags appear to be rather high quality. If for some reason I don't really fall in love with this .45 version, I'd have absolutely no problem with an M&P .40 in lieu of several .45s. It's one of the few .40s I'd take over several .45s. And for me, that's saying something.

[Nightshift va]

SRT936 I wanted the XD TACTICAL 45 After shooting it in a department T/E but they got greedy on their prices and went up $100 which is why i considered H&K. But Ive owned the Glock 21 and trust me on this one. Im probably going to bite the bullet and get the XD anyway regardless because both 45's I shot the Tactical and the Standard size were a dream to shoot. You know that little mini corner target on the B27's on each side at the tops of the target? At 15 and 20yrds me and my buddy were knocking them out like a laser. I like glock also but after shooting all sizes from subs to tactical 5 inchers they blow them out of the water on every category I can think of regarding evaluation of small arms. I still tote around my 27 only because I already qualified with it but Im gonna add a sub xd to that range book as well for off duty and my little Kahr..

[boomstik45]

Now I do have to say this: as far as .45s go, it's hard to beat the XD .45. Just shot the M&P .45 though. The XD has some serious competition on it's hands. That dang M&P was making it really easy for me to make "quicker than normal" head shots at 15 and 20 yards. Very Accurate, very mild recoil. For those of you who like Novak sights, your dream poly .45 just got here. Just like many 1911 sights I've looked through.

[Nightshift va]

Thanks for all yall imput. I bit the bullet and bought the XD Tactical the other day and ran 100rounds out of it at the hunt club. Unreal shooter. I have to break in the trigger it isn't as smooth as my well shot XD 40 but it will be after 500rounds. Once I break it in I'll take my rail light off the 40 and put it on the 45tactical for those late night critters that torture my dogs and spill my garbage in the yard.

[boomstik45]

Glad to hear it, Nightshift. I traded my .45 xd 4" for a compact tactical version. I liked shooting the full size 5" tactical but liked the idea of having a shorter grip on occasion. You'd think that would defeat the purpose, but the cool thing is, you can have glock 30-like grip length and still have the 5" barrel. Niiiice. The reason it sold me in the end? It's more comfortable than the glock 30 in my big ol' mitts, and the grip sleeve for the 13 round mag is not only easily removed/installed...it is just about seamless. Ever shoot a glock 30 with a G21 mag in there with the grip sleeve installed? Ridiculous...