Veterans Affairs

[tacmedic141]

Hey guys/gals, just posting a question for a friend. He is thinking about applying for a couple of Veterans Affairs police jobs, and was wondering if there are any he should avoid(too political) or definitely go for(great depts). He likes the south-Texas or West Washington state areas due to family, but just about anywhere would be fine, he has a wife who is an RN so they are flexable. Any suggestions/comments/tips to include the application process length, resume tips would be greatly appreciated.

[PhilipCal]

I believe we have one or two V.A. Officers on the forums. I've heard some horror stories concerning V.A. Police, but don't really know whether those are location specific,or nation wide. We have a large V.A. Facility here in Montgomery Ala, and their Officers are unarmed. Might be a thought for you to consider in your decision.I 'm not certain if this is nationwide policy, or again, whether or not it's location specific.

[kc12]

From what I've seen the head of the facility determines many of the policies the VA police must live with. Some are very pro LE others aren't. As far as weapons it is local policy. The one in St. Pete, FL carries weapons and for all intents and purposes appear to be LE. As far as the hiring process length I called the HR a couple weeks ago, after I sent my application package in, and was advised it normally took from 8 -10 weeks. The HR person also said that it could be shorter if they were eager to fill the position.

[MPSoldier84]

All VA's are now armed unless there is some fluke department out there that I haven't heard from. There are almost 3,000 VAP Officers nationwide, so a lot of positions to be filled. A good ammount of departments have high-turnover right now (A lot use the VA as experience building) and are offering a lot of incentives. The VAP is a great organization if you go to the right Medical Center, so do research into the departments.

Jurisdiction is limited to V.A. Controlled property.. which is usually the Main Campus, sometimes a cemetary, and the Community Based Outpatient Clinics (CBOCs). Only a handful of VA's are exclusive jurisdiction (strictly federal). Most are concurrent, where you can charge either state or federal depending on your local rules of court. A lot of your authority comes from Federal Magistrates. Some U.S. Magistrates are hardcore and issue bench warrants, stiff fines, and even up to 6 months in Federal Confinements on U.S. District Court Citations. Some.. your lucky if you get a 10 dollar fine issued. Again, this is only because your talking about 160+ VA's from Guam to Puerto Rico to Hawaii to Alaska to Maine.

Your training is comprised of 2 weeks in-station training upon arrival on local SOP's and basic information for Little Rock LETC. You'll usually spend however a month to three months conducting light training/quasi-internship. Than you go to the VA Law Enforcement Training Center in North Little Rock for 6 weeks. PT is pretty simple, 1 mile run and some push ups/sit ups. It's no sweat.

VA is very anal about equipment/weapons. The Beretta 92D 9mm is the standard issue handgun. It's not a bad weapon, get used to DA only though. PR-24 Side Handle Baton and OC Spray are intermediate weapons. You'll get good training from Kellog the instructor down there, and a nice beating out of it.

We're not covered under FLEO retirement or LEAP pay... though they are relentlessly trying to get us covered. And we're classified as 0083 series police officers. The VAP does have 1811 positions available though.. so if your station has the slot, it's at least worth trying for (cause than you can go wherever you want in the Federal Law Enforcement Realm.) You can even try for the VA OIG's office.

I like it.. especially in PA where it's impossible to get a Full Time Police Gig.. plus we're the only agency other than PSP that can use RADAR (and still issue state tickets :D). Pay's pretty good, and I like working for Uncle Sam.

Requirements are pretty simple. Most VA's you either have to be a Federal Transfer or Prior-Service to get in. 2 years LE experience necessary too (MP/SP/SF/MA Experience counts).

Hope this helped.

[tacmedic141]

Hey thanks guys :D , I'll give him the heads up! By any chance do you know anything about which areas/cities to avoid. I was browsing the USA jobs site and saw they were looking for 5 officers = :confused: at the VA in Seattle, I'm even a little interested now, but I'm a little concerned about the large number of openings. Just wondering if you have heard anything through the grapevine. Anyway thanks again.

Tac

[roadkingcop28]

I can say on good authority that the VA in Seattle is VERY squared away (good chief). The positions advertised are for supplemental personnel, not folks leaving. To play off of the info MPSoldier has already posted, I'm a VA cop, and I enjoy it as well. It's honestly what you make of it, and I previously worked for a LARGE metropolitan police agency, so I've gotten the "**** and vinegar" out of my system already. And to comment on the Montgomery, AL VAMC, I'm not sure what the earlier poster saw, but a VAP contact (academy buddy) verified that they are indeed armed and have been, as ALL VA Police now are. Just wanted to clarify with an inside source. Be safe out there......


Keep on rollin',
RKC

[tacmedic141]

Hey thanks for the inside info :D . I don't suppose you have any "magical tips" for applying besides patience, damn government, lol, ie interview tips ect.
Thanks Tac

[MPSoldier84]

I'd give you tips, but I'd probably be wrong. Unfortunately hiring is left up to the Human Resources Department of each hospital. I do know of one guy who got a job by giving the ladies in HR coffee and danishes alot. :rolleyes:

Good luck though

[VACOP1]

Just to let any VA Police current or in the hiring process. The PR-24 baton is going to be phased out. All officers are going to ASP's by Oct 1.

This was told by are DC Inspector during the yearly inspection.

[MPSoldier84]

Yeah my Training SGT said that. If it's true, it would be nice. I only break the damn PR-24 holder every two months.

[VACOP1]

MP, me too. They can say anything they want. Until the VA actually does it are two different things.. ITS THE VA WAY

[five04zog]

When did this rumor about the VA retiring the PR-24 start? I hope it’s true. Not that the PR is a bad baton, it’s just a pain to carry for as little as you need it. A lot of us are already certified from past LEO jobs. I bet we can’t carry it until the VA certifies us. This could take a long time before all DT/Baton instructors get certified by LETC.

Now my input about duty stations; I now that VISON 20 (WA, OR, ID, AK) is a good Region to work. The Chiefs are good and the Super Chief if good. Some of the Directors are not pro LEO but this is VA wide. Any new rumors about the Officers going GS-07 VA wide?

[VACOP1]

Five-0

We at the VA in Visn 2, just had and inspection. Our CO advised us that the PR-24 was going to be phased out by OCT .

In reference to the GS-7. Baffa stated he wanted to try and get ALL VA Police Officers GS-7 by the time he retires. Well he is leaving effective May 1st.

I also was told the VA is not restricted by what Washington says, but by the Lawyers at OPM. There are a few old timer left that will be retiring in a few years. These same old timers are what tied our hands at law enforcement. Again this was explain by our CO.

[MPSoldier84]

I just want the 6c coverage... I could care less about anything else.. I want that retirement....

[VACOP1]

MP,

I do too. Congress has the paperwork, they wanted to vote on it before Easter Break.

[Barbrady]

What are the shifts/days off? Are all the pay steps automatic? Are you allowed to work other LE jobs, for example, local reserve officer?

[five04zog]

Work shifts can change from station to station. We work 10 hour shifts (4 on 3 off) but are going to twelve’s in a few months do to manning issues. You are allowed to work as a Reserve or part-timer with the local PD/county but are not allowed to act with your local LEO authority on the clock with the VA. Pay steps are automatic from step 1 thru 10.

[PhilipCal]

Glad to hear the Montgomery V.A. Facility is now armed. Thanks for the update.

[five04zog]

The U.S. Dept. of Veterans Affairs Police is the uniformed police service of the U.S. Dept. of Veterans Affairs. They are responsible for the protection of the veteran’s hospitals and medical centers and other facilities operated by the U.S. Dept. of Veterans Affairs.

This is a SPECIAL PURPOSE AGENCY with powers of arrest for federal, state & local violations of law, Traffic, etc. The VA Police, make arrests, may transport arrestees to Jails or Federal Courthouses under the direction of the US Marshal Service. VA Police operate as individual services in VA healthcare facilities throughout the U.S. and are ultimately under the direction of the individual facility directors.

This can be a problem. Most facility directors have no law enforcement knowledge and care much more about their health care staff. This can lead to pay differences from facility too facility even within the same VA districts (VISN). Many within the VA Police feel that the GS pay grade should be 5/7 with special pay nation wide and should be ran as one dept. from Washington DC(centralized). This will likely not happen soon if ever, but you never know.

The VA police have POLICE POWERS and are empowered under Title 38 of the U.S. Code to enforce rules and regulations on VA controlled property and have LIMITED law enforcement powers off VA property facility and NO FEDERAL authority while off-duty. The VA Police occasionally provide bodyguard services for the Secretary of Veterans Affairs (special unit in DC) and comprise over 2700 "appointed" personnel.

The US Dept of Veterans Affairs was started as the Veterans Administration in 1930. The VA Police began as the VA Protective Service. They were assigned the role of maintaining order, protecting persons and property, and providing fire safety services. As the VA evolved, the fire safety role was turned over to Engineering Service and the Protective Service became a security guard force (0085 series).

By a 1973 federal law, the guard force was abolished and the VA Police (0083 series) was established. This evolution was brought about due to the changing needs of the VA and an increase of police related matters that could not be handled by a guard force or community law enforcement agencies.

The VA Police started out as police in name only. They did not start arming the VA police until 1998. By approximately 2004, all VA Police were armed. This finely came about due to a steady increase in crime and violence at VA facilities. Some VA police and medical staff were getting hurt and even being killed starting in the 80’s. Approx. 8 VA cops and even some medical staff have been killed on duty.

A new type of veteran is showing up at our VA hospitals. They are young, fresh from the Middle-east/Iraq, and trained in CQB, basic Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu / H2H, and many have PTSD. Many of our so called VA medical professionals are not VETS and do not understand, respect, or communicate well with this new generation of combat VETS. You do the math.

The majority of VA Police applicants have a minimum of two years law enforcement experience with arrest authority obtained through federal, state, or municipal Police experience or through service as military police, or have an Associate's or Bachelor's Degree in Criminal Justice. Applicants must also undergo a physical examination, MMPI psychological evaluation (yearly) and background investigation. Many VA Police are retired municipal officers or Military Police and a majority are military veterans in general.

Upon selection, VA Police Officers go through a home-station 80 hours course of training and then attend a basic six-week training course at the Law Enforcement Training Center in North Little Rock, Arkansas. This is more of a lateral equivalency academy designed to supplement training most have already received in previous occupations.

LETC is not as good as the 12 week Mixed Basic Police Academy at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Brunswick, GA. It is DOJ approved but most LE Agencies will not take it as a lateral academy. VA Police Officers do receive continuous in-service and specialized training. Some VA Police Services are better then others.

If the LETC Instructors had their way, it would be much longer and tougher. Off the record, some LETC instructors will tell you that the VA needs to increase hiring standers and let them do their job and teach the academy the way it should be (as long as FLETC and to the same standards). They do a great job with the time they are given. The firearms week, Law week, and DT week are great but should be much longer.

Like most Leo’s, VA Police Officers are certified in CPR (as First Responders), use of Chemical Irritant Projector (O.C. spray), the PR-24 Police side handle baton, and the Beretta 92D 9 mm firearm. Currently, officers must turn in their firearms at the end of shift but are allowed to carry their personal weapons to and from work and off duty (see LEOSA). Many rumors are circulating that the VA Police will be switching to the ASP, but this may not happen for a few more years.

The VA Police are not members of the Law Enforcement Retirement System (LERS or 6c), and do not enjoy the same retirement benefits as many other federal law enforcement officers. Legislation has been proposed to change this but the last effort failed to make it out of committee.

The working conditions will change from station to station. Some have outstanding chiefs and directors that support them and some don’t. My chief is the best. He sends us to training and will help you build your career. The VA is a great place to start or end a career as a police officer. It is also a great way to start a federal LEO career.

The bigger the station the more law enforcement you will do. Some stations are monstrous big and are much like military bases. Some VA’s have large amounts of building, roads, graveyards, golf courses, stores, warehouses, housing/hotels/ billeting and more. Some are so big they have their own fire departments.

All this is a combination of fact and personal opinion. Take it with a grain of salt. I hope it helps job seekers with the hunt. In short, the VA can be a great place to work if you go to the right police service. Do your homework, ask lots of questions. I was in corrections for 6 years. I took a job with the VA police to get police experience. It is my second federal agency. I like it but am looking for more.

I got a conditional offer of employment from an other federal LEO job. I feel it was my Police experience with the VA that helped (wish me luck). I was in military law enforcement but never a full time cop as a civilian. The VA can be a good resume builder. If you are looking to go 1811/federal criminal investigator, the VA has a great OIG. They often recruit from police service.

GOOD LUCK with your job search!

some reference from-Wikipedia

[VACOP1]

Hey five04 , did you happen to read the email that Baffa sent on his last day (4-26).

What did you make of it. If any of that goes through I think it will be a big morale boost for the VA Police.

[five04zog]

I’ve always felt that the VA Police has some big changes on the horizon. I suspect that in the next five years, you will see some important changes. The type of changes that will put V.A.P. at the level of FPS-Police or in the same ballpark.

We need to chance too a Police Service that applicants would like to make a career, not a stepping stone or a retirement gig. I would stay with the VA if the stuff Baffa talked about (and a few other key things) came true. The LEO retirement for one and centralized management in DC. We need to take the VA police away from the abusive power of the Directors (for the record, some are good).

I’m leaving the VA and going to a LEO covered 083 job with better pay. I would live to live on real food and not microwave noodles and beans when I retire. We all deserve better. I hope the stuff Baffa was talking about comes true. Baffa is acting like a final term president. It’s like he is trying to get a few pardons on the way out. Funny stuff! I hope it works.

Don’t get me wrong, I am glad to have worked at the VA. I have a great Chief and a great training officer in my service. We train and shoot all the time and he is a wealth of knowledge. I’m one of the lucky ones. I like my co-workers and like coming to work (in general). We do have two “dips” in our service that have NO business being cops. We all have at least one. This goes back to sticking with OPM hiring standards.

Sorry for venting. I must sound like a broken record. As I stated before, The VA is a great steppingstone or a great retirement gig. I hope that will change for the better soon.

[MPSoldier84]

Leaving the VA? And than there was two...

I didn't get the letter Baffa sent out, what did it say?

[five04zog]

In a nutshell, he was saying goodbye and good luck. He implied that DC was going to support the GS-07 for all Officers and said that the last questioner that was sent out was a disaster (the one about rotating shifts and shift work). He also implied that we may be getting more flexibility concerning our overall law enforcement powers and it also sound like we may be able to serve local warrants (not just federal) soon. Time tells all.:confused:

[MPSoldier84]

In a nutshell, he was saying goodbye and good luck. He implied that DC was going to support the GS-07 for all Officers and said that the last questioner that was sent out was a disaster (the one about rotating shifts and shift work). He also implied that we may be getting more flexibility concerning our overall law enforcement powers and it also sound like we may be able to serve local warrants (not just federal) soon. Time tells all.:confused:

They will get all that once they supposedly Centralize us out of VACO in DC

[orlandofed5-0]

They will get all that once they supposedly Centralize us out of VACO in DC


Which the directors will fight tooth and nail!

[VACOP1]

Which the directors will fight tooth and nail!

you may be right, but it gets to be a conflict with them. We just arrested a guy for Discon (x2) and aggravated harrasment (NY LAW). We dealt with him for over 21/2 month same crap all the time.

This guy called the Associate Director, almost daily. Associate Director told our Capt. to drop the charges. Guess what he did.

I will tell you the US Attorney was furious.

[five04zog]

you may be right, but it gets to be a conflict with them. We just arrested a guy for Discon (x2) and aggravated harrasment (NY LAW). We dealt with him for over 21/2 month same crap all the time.

This guy called the Associate Director, almost daily. Associate Director told our Capt. to drop the charges. Guess what he did.

I will tell you the US Attorney was furious.

THE VA WAY!

[VACOP1]

THE VA WAY!

LETC told us there was no such thing!

[MPSoldier84]

It could go either way. Some directors will support it because they know if we screw up. It's Central Office that get's the summons for a law suit and it doesn't reflect their facility. BUT.. They will be hesitant because it's just like a small town city council and mayor. They don't want to lose the authority of having a Police Dept. So it will take years of arguing between VACO and the Directors before they come to an agreement.. assuming they just don't quit and spend all that money on painting walls.

[VACOP1]

It could go either way. Some directors will support it because they know if we screw up. It's Central Office that get's the summons for a law suit and it doesn't reflect their facility. BUT.. They will be hesitant because it's just like a small town city council and mayor. They don't want to lose the authority of having a Police Dept. So it will take years of arguing between VACO and the Directors before they come to an agreement.. assuming they just don't quit and spend all that money on painting walls.

Ours is floor buffing.

Also the US Attorney expressed his dis-pleasure with the situation. He bascially told our Capt. once its on his desk/ or in his office. NOBODY but him/her will dismiss the charges.

[oneunder]

Does anyone know the schedule for the LETC this second half of the year.
What are the P/T requirements? eg. number of push-ups/sit-ups(time) and mile run (time). Oh, by the way, it's for the ove 50 y/o set. thanks all.