Professional Courtesy To Out of State LEO's

[Tackleberry]

Hello All,

Being a LEO I have a question that has been brought up several times. If you were on duty and happened to pullover an out of state LEO and he notified you he was carrying regardless of your state's laws would you arrest him or show him a little profesional courtesy and let him go?

This should be intresting.

Stay Safe and wear your Vest!

Tac

[dkiefner]

Well, since I'm in Vermont, the question is really moot (unless it's a deer rifle) http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif.

However, hypothetically speaking, would probably verify status, and wish them a nice day.


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Dave Kiefner
[i]Die Wahrheit ist eine Perle. Werfen sie nicht vor die S

[R.White]

Being in a popular tourist area of Fl, this happens fairly regularly. Most officers I know grant the courtesy, unless the guy is a real jerk, which is very seldom. Most dept. heads I know know it happens and don't make an issue of this either. RW

[7@NGHS]

Ditto Dave,

A little officer discretion needed here.

"Discretion is the better part of valor" http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Eddie

[Roman]

I'm going to be *completely* honest here and say that I have absolutely no idea what the law technically says here in California. I'm assuming that the right to carry a concealed weapon applies only to within state officers, but in my book an officer is an officer (yeah, even some of those backwater county yokels down south http://www.officer.com/ubb/wink.gif ) I really cannot imagine that I would arrest and book an officer for carrying a gun! Of course, if the guy was a real jerk, I'd probably shoot a nasty letter off to his agency instead. I'm a firm believer in and practitioner of professional courtesy... but it is a *courtesy* reserved for *professionals*. I once had an off-duty DEA agent hang his credential out of the window....before I even got out of my car... as if I was supposed to just see that and drive off! He had such a lousy attitude, I ended up stacking two mechanical violations on top of his (very blatant) moving violation... just doing my job, sir.

[Nick]

Officer, have a nice day..........a cop is a cop is a cop, even when s/he is crossing state lines..........

[TC]

I was very fortunate on a trip to Virginia last year. I had this idiot in front of me that I would pass. He would then pass me, get in front of me and slow down. I would pass again. He would pass again. It totally ****ed me off, so I decided to put some distance between us. Well, come over a hill and there sits a county deputy running his picture taker. I pull over before he so much as turns his lights on. He walked up and I said, "Sir, for your safety and mine I have a handgun under my seat." The dude was really cool. He immediately asked me what department I worked for. I told him and explained the situation with the knucklehead further back. He was very nice and asked me to watch my speed more closely. People that know me will tell you that I NEVER speed, so this was an EXTREME rarity for me.

[BP309]

It doesn't matter what agency they work for(after I've verified that they are an LEO)I will not arrest an off duty officer for carrying a weapon. There's been too many times the same courtesy has been extended to me. There's been a few times when I've been outnumbered on a traffic stop and had an off duty officer back me up. Besides, criminals take vacations to.

Be Safe - Wear The Vest

Billy

[radar]

I agree with this but have a warning about Wyoming. I was stopped there by a State trooper last Sept and promise you if he had known of a weapon he would have arrested me.
I have traveled all over the US, Canada Mexico and Europe and this was the rudest officer (even after he saw my badge) I have ever encountered. I was doing 65 in a 60 mile zone outside of Buffalo, he took my license and registration and went to his vehicle spending about 10-15 minutes to write a warning ticket. His attitude was very cold and almost treated me with animosity. I had pulled over when he u-turned and was extremely courteous to him not knowing what was going on. God help me if he had found a weapon. Yes he could have written me a ticket I suppose, the 5 mph in a work zone on Sunday when no one was working was a serious offense.

[Tackleberry]

LEO's

Please be extremely careful if you are carrying and going throught the state of NJ and offer to disclose this information. I have a friend and a fellow officer who was traveling about 2 years or so through NJ towards NY and was pulled over by a NJ State Trooper for going 68mph in a 55mph zone on U.S. Interstate 78, the Trooper asked him for his driver's license/registration, upon retrieving his DL the trooper noticed his badge at which point my friend notified him that he was a LEO, the Trooper then casually asked him if he was carrying which he replyed that he was and where it was at. At this point the trooper asked him to exit the vehicle and brought the officer back to his cruiser as several other trooper's pulled up. He disarmed the officer and made inoperable his G22 w/hicap LEO mags and federal HP's. He then placed the officer under arrest for carrying without a permit and possession of Hollow points in NJ which I believe carries a 3-5yr state sentence just for the bullets!! To make a long story short my friend almost lost his job and went to prison and in fact did spend the weekend in jail until our union bailed him out of jail. He made a deal with the prosecutor and his department. His department was not happy in the least that his duty weapon was confiscated and had to pull alot of red tape to get it back. My friend was suspended from work without pay for 30days on top of the $3500.00 lawyer's fees and subsequent fine. Please be very carefull going through NJ if you are carrying, My friend regrets ever telling the Trooper he was carrying thus making it as easy as it gets for the Trooper to arrest him. I know who this Trooper is and if he ever shows up in my jurisdiction he better not be doing anything illegal! I cannot speak for other Trooper's in NJ only this one and that they are very, very strict on gun laws LEO or not. In fact I have a friend who is a NJ State Trooper and he said please keep your gun at home in NJ!


Stay Safe!

Tac

[DesertRat]

Boy can I relate to your Woming Highway Patrol experience Radar. I had one write me for 4 mph over. Was the rudest SOB I ever met in my life. I've always told people they must have done something to tick of an officer that treated them offensivelly until I met this guy. It was unbelievable. I'd been a cop for 11 years and had never worked with anybody like this and would have called them on the carpet if I had. Oh well, just makes up for all the ones I should of gotten in my life and didn't I guess.

Originally posted by radar:
I agree with this but have a warning about Wyoming. I was stopped there by a State trooper last Sept and promise you if he had known of a weapon he would have arrested me.
I have traveled all over the US, Canada Mexico and Europe and this was the rudest officer (even after he saw my badge) I have ever encountered. I was doing 65 in a 60 mile zone outside of Buffalo, he took my license and registration and went to his vehicle spending about 10-15 minutes to write a warning ticket. His attitude was very cold and almost treated me with animosity. I had pulled over when he u-turned and was extremely courteous to him not knowing what was going on. God help me if he had found a weapon. Yes he could have written me a ticket I suppose, the 5 mph in a work zone on Sunday when no one was working was a serious offense.



[This message has been edited by DesertRat (edited 03-30-2000).]

[radar]

To Desert rat- the really bad thing about Wyoming is I am building a retirement home there, better stay on the backroads, huh.

[TC]

Those officers mentioned above are the ones that used to get beat up in school a lot and finally found a way to abuse power over people. This is the public perception that we'll be fighting forever just because of knuckleheads like these. Luckily I've never come across a rude officer, but if I ever do, I'll be filing official complaints.

[John from Maryland]

The posts about New Jersey are frightening. I've been to NJ a couple times for IALEFI regional seminars. I was off duty and paying my own way. If I'd been stopped for traffic, I'm not sure if I'd be allowed to have my weapons or not (high capacity magazines, HP ammo). Of course, I'm from Maryland, so who knows what out of state cops can expect in the future. Be safe.

[Badgeman]

I would let them go... I know if my behind was in a tight spot they would stop and help so I hope he is carrying... This is Texas though and it is within the law to carry for off duty LEO in or out of state. I have been stopped plenty..never in N.J. and have always said yes sir, no sir, sorry sir... and had no problems... If that N.J. story is true somebody ought to go up there and flatten their tires cause they are no kind of cops.

[DesertRat]

Radar: We were considering Wyoming too but the Black Hills of South Dakota are looking better all the time. Actually, I lived up in that area the majority of my youth and loved it. You will too. Great bunch of people, they just need to train the troopers to have a personality. I've worked traffic enforcement too and the philosphy is of course no breaks, everyone is equal etc., but come on. I've never stopped anyone for doing 4 over in my life.

As far as out of state off duty LEOs stopping to back officers on the job. Before I saddled up to a desk, I used to patrol the I-15 corridor between Las Vegas and L.A. and was often the only officer on that Southern Nevada end of the beat at night. Twice I had CA LEOs stop when I was out with large groups on the side of the freeway. I guarante y'all my first thought was "Thank God," not, gee I wonder if they have any illegally concealed hang guns on their person I should investigate. I guss that's the difference between working a 50 mile stretch of desert scrub and the packed freeways of New Jersey.

[Cartman]

As long as everything checks out, who cares, there is enough "bad guys" that get away with breaking the laws every day. Until a federal law is passed to allow off duty officers to cary in other states, I will not cary. As far as the officer that was prosecuted in NJ, he should not have offered up the fact that he was carying. The constitution applies to him as well.

[fanter]

Definately cut him loose and tell him to have a nice day. No need to be a knuckle head with other cops when there are real bad guys out there to bust.

Stay Safe

[KenM]

I don't understand the comments about Wyoming. They have an open carry policy. Anyone that is not a convicted felon can openly carry a weapon (minus the usual places--bars, govt bldgs, etc). You can only carry concealed if you have a permit or are an LEO. Never had any trouble there and never been stopped but I do have to admit the troopers I spoke to were just a little on the dry side!
I worked up there in Casper for a VERY SHORT time but had to return to Texas due to the low pay. It's definitely a "whole other world" up there.

[klar]

I think that a off duty LEO should be given all the respect that any on duty LEO is given. If he was speeding just a freindly reminder and a have a good day is all that is needed. I have not traveled to a lot of the states under arms but the ones I have traveled I was never pulled over. I am one who would stop to assist as best I could to back up a lone LEO out on the highway or in town. I feel we are all brothers/sisters in this fight against the bad guys and that we all need to rely on each other. There are enough bad guys to go around and the fact that there are some "brothers/sisters" who have seem to forgotten this then maybe they can be reminded of this fact. I would like all to enjoy the fact that no matter the time or day you never know when your going to run into a bad guy. It is much more refreshing to be able to relax knowing that the person you have pulled over is a fellow LEO and that your job is a little easier. You all have a good day and be safe out there.

[Porcupine]

Sometimes, since our Ohio Municipality has 6 miles of IS90 (northern), I run into LEO traveling east and west. A few times, I got that 'feeling' that this person wanted to tell me something more. I would ask more and more questions, until they would finally say they were LEO. After checking their ID, only once confirming with dispatch calling (we was a NARC LEO and looked the part...)his Station, I'd let them go with a warning.

Seeing the static some of you guys (or gals) have received elsewhere, I better understand the resistance to disclosing. http://www.officer.com/ubb/frown.gif

My wife and I showed dogs (Afghans) for a number of years in my youth (as an Officer) and now with our businesses we attend functions quarterly across the region.
I personally do not carry. I have been considering doing so though, especially since attending the Street Survival 2000 in Columbus this year.

I have reacted to situations and have backed up other officers while on vacation or relaxation. Ignorantly, I had gotten into a foot chase with two store theives in Southern Mississippi about 6 years ago... at 2am. Wow, what was I thinking... besides "get the bad guy". My poor wife sat in the van, shaking her head. http://www.officer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

This is a great forum. Just found it tonite. I'll be back and forth often. C-ya

Porcupine - (as referred to by the truckers in the region, by-passing the State scales). http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Irish]

Out of state LEO's are more than welcome to carry off duty weapons in Ohio.

I have had occasion to stop off duty LEO's, both in-state and out. I have yet to meet one that his been nothing less of courteous. We all need to keep this in mind if we are ever stopped by brother or sister officers, we all do the same job and have the same stress. Let's make it as easy and pleasant as possible for each other.

We're all in the same battle, let's back each other up.

[Sparky]

I've never know an officer to have a problem with this. I, and all of the officers that I've ever known (as far as I'm aware,) don't have a problem with OD LEO's carrying....we're all on the same team.

I've always figured, "The more good guys with guns, the better!"

Except in NJ! From what it sounds like! I don't think I'll be going there ever at all period!

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-Sparky

[radar]

To KenM about Wyoming, DesertRat and I were off the track a little on the carry issue but we both encountered totally unfriendly treatment by Wyoming Troopers to out of state LEO, 5 and 4 miles over and they are stopping us, in my case I had just been blown away by numerous tractor/trailers and he had to pass them (no exits). I have met some great deputies out there but the troopers I have encountered, have the personality of cardboard boxes.

[awf]

I believe the laws in Oklahoma allow this, however, I don't care one way or the other. If another officer is passing through my jurisdiction I want him to have his weapon as it may be my butt in a crack when he comes through as you all know you can't always get to your radio for assitance. I know on several occasion I have stopped on the highway with troopers of different states, identified myself and offered assitance, and would do it again for any LEO. I feel that we all are out to catch the bad guys whether you are from Oklahoma or not. P.S. thanks for the note about N.J. http://www.officer.com/ubb/eek.gif Now lets don't squabble with each other we have too many bad guys out there to do that amongst ourselves. http://www.officer.com/ubb/cool.gif

[Irish]

We're all discussing travel by road. Have you ever tried to travel by air with your handgun. What a friggin' nightmare that is! Unless you are on official duty, with a letter from your chief acknowledging that, your gun must be 1)unloaded, 2)locked in a FAA approved box, 3)the ammo must be locked in a seperate FAA approved box, and 4) it cannot be carried on.

You'd think the FAA would ease up the restrictions for any LEO traveling and with the proper credentials.

[Roman]

I'm not sure I agree with you, Irish. Bringing a firearm into the passenger compartment of an airplane is a no win situation. The risk of either the pilot being killed, or the fuselage or other essential piece of equipment damaged by gunfire and resulting in a massive amount of deaths is far too great.

Don't quote me on this statistic, but I heard that there are something like 17,000 law enforcement agencies in this country. Without any way to verify the authenticity of law enforcement ID's, there would be too much risk of an imposter with a Gall's badge hijacking a plane.

I also think that if I was armed and on a flight which was hijacked, I would probably (stupidly) try to be a hero. Most hijackings I know of have resulted in the plane landing somewhere and negotations ending either in a peaceful resolution or some casualties. A gunfight in the skies, however, would inevitably end in everyone being killed!

I feel safer with the guns locked away in the luggage compartment.

[This message has been edited by Roman (edited 04-08-2000).]

[Irish]

Good point, Roman. Hadn't looked at it that way.

[sgt. eddie]

new to forum.......howdy!

I worked extradtions for some time and have had experience with the aircraft/gun thing. Never did it off duty.....quite frankly I wouldn't want to unless it was a must. I don't like to fly in the first place......I wouldn't even THINK about shooting at 30,000 feet. I always told the morons I was bringing back that I would simply beat the hell out of them and after we landed I'd shoot them then.
Seriously, when checking on to the flight, you have to tell the flight crew who you are, what you are doing, etc., and usually the pilot will want to talk to you. They will tell you where to sit and what is expected, and most importantly......SECURE THE BAD GUY IN RESTRAINTS because you CAN'T shoot and risk opening up a vacuum in the aircraft.

As for giving a brother a hard time for having his heater in my state........no. Period. I strongly believe an leo should be able to carry anywhere. The bad guys do.

I can tell you first hand that NJ has extreme gun laws, but that is no excuse for north end troopers taking the hard line on a brother leo unless he did something really stupid to deserve it.

[John from Maryland]

The FAA requires that police officers flying while armed complete a short class on (D'UH!) flying while armed. Officers need to have a reason to be armed on the flight: on active surveillance, protective duty, immediate involvment in investigation,etc. I can't say I disagree with the policy.

[Sparky]

The issue of flying armed is not only one of needing to be armed in flight, which is rare. Reasons to remain armed during flight operations is to be armed immediately prior to boarding and after debarkation. Depending on circumsatnces, you need to remain armed between check-in and the gate, and after landing prior to picking up luggage and going off to the restroom to put on your sidearm. plus, it's still a problem to be armed even in the terminal.

That weapon is safer on my side than in my clearly marked luggage, or in my carry on. Luggage containing a firearm is clearly marked "FIREARM" and subject to theft or the usual loss as with any other peice of luggage. Leaving it in your carry on subjects it to loss or theft as well. If it's on my side, then I know where it is and it won't go off unless I shoot the thing.

Carrying in flight can be done, it just takes a little planing ahead of time.

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-Sparky
Fiat justina.

[Tackleberry]

Sparky,

Recently FAA rules prohibit the Airlines from marking luggage containing your Firearm as "FIREARM" This is due to a very large spread problem of these items being targeted for theft due to the fact that they are easy picking's from being marked and thus stolen. The weapon must be unloaded and broken down and transported in a hardshelled locked case. Ammunition must also be stored in a serperate hard/locked case and in the original manufacture's boxes. You must declare that you wish to transport your firearm in this method and here's the really scary part...The untrained Airline people at check-in will handle and inspect the gun for compliance, several of which I have been told have no idea what their doing! The airlines themselves must be reminded not to place this tag on your luggage as they sometimes do so anyway in spite of the new change in the law, I carry a copy of the new FAA guideine just in case. If you must travel in this fashion with your firearm or any weapon it's a good idea to contact the FAA which I have and obtain a special packet containing the way to carry firearms in your luggage and how to declare them at check-in, keep this packet on you when checking in!


Tac

[Sparky]

Excellent Tac! I appreciate the update. I will contact the FAA soon to get those materials. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif

Be vest! And wear a safe!

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-Sparky
Fiat justina.

[Kevin]

A cop is a cop...have a nice day! Let me asure you all, you will be safe in the great "crime free" city of Baltimore

Originally posted by Tackleberry:

Hello All,

Being a LEO I have a question that has been brought up several times. If you were on duty and happened to pullover an out of state LEO and he notified you he was carrying regardless of your state's laws would you arrest him or show him a little profesional courtesy and let him go?

This should be intresting.

Stay Safe and wear your Vest!

Tac

[sgt. eddie]

Sparky........Very true, very true. The actual flight part is not that much of a risk factor cause even the bad guys really don't want a problem at 300,000 feet. The flight crew always had us assigned to rear seats....one officer with the bad guy in the same seat and the other in front or, preferably, behind. We would always board first and leave last. The flight itself is not as much a security factor as the transport to the plane and the debarking and transport to jail. It is simply more practical to carry the whole time than to have to wait for luggage to get your gun.

[sgt. eddie]

That's 30.000 feet!!! Sheesh.....I have yet to transport on the space shuttle. http://www.officer.com/ubb/redface.gif

[Patrick]

I would let him or her go unless they gave
me a hard time, and was being an *********.

pat

[Don]

My LE career spaned twenty plus years. In that time, I made a lot of traffic stops. I ran into a lot of od LE officers. Most were courteous and I wished them a nice day.

Buuut-there was one from Mexicalli Mexico that was such an A-Hole that I would have booked him on any excuse. I still find it hard to believe that I wrote a ticket to a fellow officer, but he just didn't deserve any kind of "professional courtesey".

It's been said before, but bears repeating, we are all doing the same job, lets make it as easy as possible on each other!

One of the joys of being retired is not having to carry all the time. I always have one in the car, even on vaction in other states. I will try to not put an officer on the spot by identifying myself as law enforcement (retired or otherwise).

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Stay safe out there,
6P1

[tk9nacho]

Roman...Being a "backwater country yokel", http://www.officer.com/ubb/tongue.gif, I think officer to officer, we are all the same. Someone may have to help me in the woods when it is me vs. the dirtbags. I hope an off-duty, or out of state officer has a weapon to help me. Lets all remember, that we need to help each other, and if on the receiving end of a traffic stop, put yourself in the place of the one doing the stop....Roman, stay safe, and visit us in North Florida when you can...we have white sandy beaches........ http://www.officer.com/ubb/cool.gif

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I believe there are still responsible people out there...be one of them!

[glee]

being an officer in NC I always give PC. And hope if I need help there will be an od or on duty off. around and I could care less where the work.

GLee
DPD

[k9fto]

I work in Texas and stop numerous od out of state officers as well as our own. A cop is a cop is a cop no matter what color the uniform. There is still a badge that sits over the heart.

I work speed step and yes, stopping an officer can be a inconvenience to the stats we maintain but I always say "seeya and be safe" no matter what the circumstances. It could be your behind he pulls from the fire one lonely night in the middle of nowhere. I have stopped more than once off duty to assist a brother officer on the side of the street, one time keeping a turd from taking his handgun while on a DWI stop, and Ill stop again if needed.

be safe out there....

[tcsd1236]

I don't care, once I confirm their status.

[THE BRONZE]

I'm with you, glee. In thirteen years, I have stopped several Lead Footed Leo's, and I have been able to give all of them PC. What has surprised me is how rude some of these have been while I confirmed their ID.

As for carrying off duty from out of state, I don't think many from my department would say anything other than "Have a nice day." I would like to say everbody has that opinion, but as does every agency, we have a few who don't know anything other than going by the book.

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Jim

[Traffic Dog]

I'd show him or her some PC. There are too many "bad" guys out there to pick on our own.

[Don]

I just can't understand why any officer would "cop an attitude" at being stopped. It just doesn't make any sense. As I posted earlier, I had one (out of Mexicalli Mexico) that was such a jerk that I did scratch him. I still feel bad about doing it, but he didn't leave me any choice.

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Stay safe out there,
6P1 (retired)

[POINTERCOP]

I continue to provide PC to all officers I come in contact with. However, I can assure you that is NOT the case with every officer. I have been treated rudely by Tennessee and Arkansas State Police and even some locals. I will NOT be rude to a Police Officer when s/he stops me. I generally know I have screwed the pooch with my lead foot. And, I carry when I am in a vehicle. I carried (in luggage) for the first time on a plane this year to Police Week. No problem. Followed the rules. My only concern about not having it on my person is theft, but since they now put the red tags in the guncase...not on the luggage...it does not appear to be such a problem.

BE SAFE

[BIGR]

I have stopped other LEOS in the past from other states and always have extended them professional courtesy. As I recall I have been extended some nice courtesy in TN one time by a city policeman. The way I see it we are all in this together and we need to stick together regardless if you are a city LEO,County LEO or a state LEO.To me a LEO is LEO regardless of state. Unless I stop a man and he is an absolute jerk I am going to treat him the way I would want to be treated and that would be with respect and professional courtesy. Happy traveling and your always welcome in my home state of NC.

[Ray]

Twelve years of Law Enforcement and I've twice wrote a fellow officer. Once I stopped a man from out of state for speeding. After I wrote the ticket and I returned to his car I happened to notice an ID case on his seat, when I asked him was he an officer he told me. Had he told me up front I wouldn't have written it. I did help him in court.

The other one was another story. A complete jerk and A hole. He was from another local agency. Being new on the force I didn't know he was a cop. When I did finally get him stopped.

He ignored lights and siren for nearly a mile, before he stopped at a convienence store. When he did he got out and began pumping gas before I even got out of my car. Upon approach he was beligerent ****y and rude. This in front of everyone in the parking lot. So I wrote him. http://www.officer.com/ubb/mad.gif

PC requires some PC from the stopped officer

[Don]

Aaaaamen Ray!
I stopped one in the desert one day. This fella beat me to the street (Wrong!) and then when I contacted him he asked "and just what is your problem?" (Wrong again). He then told me he was on the job in New York. After checking his ID, I chewed on him until I'm sure he would have rather had a ticket, then let him go. He was only doing about 25 over the speed limit on a road with blind curves and lots of tourons who like to stop in the middle of the road!

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Stay safe out there,
6P1 (retired)

[This message has been edited by Don (edited 05-29-2000).]