Sovereign Citizen

[KenW.]

There is a self-proclaimed "Sovereign Citizen" in my County that I'm having difficulty understanding.

He wants the Sheriff's Office (he says; the only actual, constitutionally authorized law enforcement), to do his evictions for him. Yet he routinely interferes with deputies working warrants in his mobile home community.

I've seized his real property (trailer park) in the past; now I have to seize one of his cars. I intend to do it AFTER he pays us for his upcoming 15 evictions.

I have to explain that he can't have it both ways. To use the Courts and the Sheriff to perform evictions for him, then try to refuse the enforcement jurisdiction of the Sheriff is total hypocrasy.

Oh, and I forgot... He's recently been diagnosed with Alzhiemer's.

[pkagel]

I just figured I'd get a front row seat on this topic. This one looks like it is going to get darn funny.

[MountainCop]

Yep!

And IMHO, if it were me, and he interfered with anything I was doing, I'd nail him for obstruction.

Good times!!

[retired]

Yep!

And IMHO, if it were me, and he interfered with anything I was doing, I'd nail him for obstruction.

Good times!!

He probabaly wouldn't remember it if he has Alzhiemer's, nor would I guess he would care. :(

[HolyRoller]

Ken, I feel for you.

The sovereign citizen crowd is already mentally ill. Alzheimer's is just the candle on this guy's cake. They are closely related to the tax protestors who say they don't have to pay taxes because Federal Reserve Notes are not legal currency, but they sure will sue you to be paid in Federal Reserve Notes if you owe THEM.

In my criminal defense and civil rights days, I talked with a LOT of inmates who had the legal system all figured out and knew for a fact that they were illegally imprisoned, meaning that they could sue whoever put them there for false imprisonment. My favorite was: "I'm suing for a hundred million, but I'll settle for ten million." Other jailhouse lawyers believe that a writ of mandamus can fix most anything, and a writ of prohibition can fix anything else. TRUST ME, they are wrong and anybody who took an hour to learn the law would know it.

There's no reasoning with these boneheads. My oath of office says I will preserve, protect, and defend the U.S. Constitution and enforce all laws not inconsistent with it, and the Constitution does not allow anybody to form an independent sovereign republic inside the United States. Do what you gotta do to live up to your oath.

[MountainCop]

He probabaly wouldn't remember it if he has Alzhiemer's, nor would I guess he would care. :(

Sad but true.

And as HolyRoller said - there's no reasoning with these people, so it's useless to debate them.

[KenW.]

He's also been ordained minister from the internet (Universal Life Church or something like that), and the car I'm looking to seize is registered to him AND the Church.

This will be interesting...

[HolyRoller]

Then buy some time on your local gospel radio station, anoint yourself as the Reverend Apostle Ken, and start preaching. After a few sermons, he'll be hooked. Then you start working in stuff like: "I'm getting a word from the Holy Spirit ... there's somebody out there with a car that the government is trying to take away, yes YOU sir, with all the mobile homes. But thus saith the LORD, do not give in to that sheriff, instead, God says you are to donate that car to this ministry. Just make a vow and pay it, and the Bible says you will be blessed sevenfold. Praise the LORD!!!! I know it's been done in Jesus name!"

I'm only half kidding.

[warrior_oh58d]

Then buy some time on your local gospel radio station, anoint yourself as the Reverend Apostle Ken, and start preaching. After a few sermons, he'll be hooked. Then you start working in stuff like: "I'm getting a word from the Holy Spirit ... there's somebody out there with a car that the government is trying to take away, yes YOU sir, with all the mobile homes. But thus saith the LORD, do not give in to that sheriff, instead, God says you are to donate that car to this ministry. Just make a vow and pay it, and the Bible says you will be blessed sevenfold. Praise the LORD!!!! I know it's been done in Jesus name!"

I'm only half kidding.

ok now that is hilarious

[jeffIL]

Go to ulc.org and get ordained yourself! Its free.

[MountainCop]

Go to ulc.org and get ordained yourself! Its free.

Nah, I'd rather be ordained here :D :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius

[Jack Price]

I once reminded a similar self-centered nut that Jesus said "Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasers.", and then asked him "Do you put yourself on a higher plane than Jesus?" He walked off without answering and we didn't hear from him for 3 weeks!

[djack16]

Just be careful. Remember what happened to Randall Vetter. Crazy old constitutionalists with alzheimers spells trouble.

[KenW.]

Crazy old constitutionalists with alzheimers spells trouble

But, the internet ordained him a minister. I'll leave the TASER home...

[KenW.]

I found my Soverign Citizen's car; the one I need to sieze. Unfortunatly, it's not in my county. I'm not allowed to go get it. Our statewide powers do not extend to civil matters, or I'd go get it.

Looks like I get to serve the execution without siezing the property.

On the plus side; His evictions are being signed by the Judge today! He's having me evict 12 or 14 people from his mobile home community.

Now he is a sovereign citizen, ordained internet minister, Alzhiemer's and Dementia patient, and part of something called a "pure trust".

[johnny_bravo]

So in order to be a "citizen" of the "United States" one must be in the "United States".

Does anyone here have FACTUAL knowledge of what the UNITED STATES is? (Evidence that would stand up in court)

I assert NO.

[Bing_Oh]

Be very careful when dealing with members of the Sovereign Citizen's movement, KenW. These guys can turn into a major pain in the behind! There's a local deputy who arrested a Sovereign Citizen a few years ago who is now dealing with accusations of tax evasion (the Sovereign Citizens group filed false claims with his SSN and now the Feds thinks he has more income that he never paid taxes for) and have been trying to put their pseudo-liens on his property and serve him with "subpeonas" to their kangaroo courts.

[(S)Sgt Elmer]

So in order to be a "citizen" of the "United States" one must be in the "United States".

Does anyone here have FACTUAL knowledge of what the UNITED STATES is? (Evidence that would stand up in court)

I assert NO.

You're going to school, but apparently aren't learning anything.

[L-1]

So in order to be a "citizen" of the "United States" one must be in the "United States".

Does anyone here have FACTUAL knowledge of what the UNITED STATES is? (Evidence that would stand up in court)

I assert NO.

Hi Johnny,

A lot of your posts sound familiar. By any chance are you related to Ralph Wiggam?

[L-1]

Be very careful when dealing with members of the Sovereign Citizen's movement, KenW. These guys can turn into a major pain in the behind! There's a local deputy who arrested a Sovereign Citizen a few years ago who is now dealing with accusations of tax evasion (the Sovereign Citizens group filed false claims with his SSN and now the Feds thinks he has more income that he never paid taxes for) and have been trying to put their pseudo-liens on his property and serve him with "subpeonas" to their kangaroo courts.

If you continue to have a problem with that you might want to contact the California Highway Patrol's Legal Coordination Unit. On behalf of their officers they deal with a lot of Soverign Citizen's phony IRS reports and proprty liens. They've been doing it for so long that they can usually resolve things with a few well placed phone calls to IRS. If you give them a call I suspect they can point you to the right people.

[johnny_bravo]

Hi Johnny,

A lot of your posts sound familiar. By any chance are you related to Ralph Wiggam?

I have never heard of Ralph Wiggam, until now.

Google is my friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wiggum

Have you heard of MARC STEVENS?

Here is a link for you.

http://www.adventuresinlegalland.com/index.php?/content/view/27/33/

[KenW.]

As it turns out, the vehicle I am to sieze from him is out of my reach; somewhere in another county. The Attorney had me send the writ back to him.

I may be siezing his real property instead.

Just how seperate from the USA he really is, I just don't understand... He's flying a U.S. Flag in his yard (without the fringe).

[Hack]

I have dealt with inmates who are into this mess. Watch out for them. They will use U.C.C. to get to you if they think they can get by with it.

[KenW.]

I stop in to see him about once a week concerning the evictions I'm doing at his request, for the Sheriff's Office. He doesn't know I was looking to seize one of his cars. Since that car is out of my reach, I'm expecting the Lawyer to get a Writ of Execution for me to seize his real property (Trailer Park). I've that to him before, he even compliments me on my professionalism!

He is aware that it's not me, it is our legal system that is misconstrued; using illegal courts and the orders issued by them. According to him, the Office of Sheriff is the ONLY constitutionaly authorized law enforcement in this country. He has no use for city or state police.

He cooperates with the Sheriff's Office, just not with any Court in our fair state. That's what Alzhiemer's and related dementia will do to you.

[Taylor1430]

I stop in to see him about once a week concerning the evictions I'm doing at his request, for the Sheriff's Office. He doesn't know I was looking to seize one of his cars. Since that car is out of my reach, I'm expecting the Lawyer to get a Writ of Execution for me to seize his real property (Trailer Park). I've that to him before, he even compliments me on my professionalism!

He is aware that it's not me, it is our legal system that is misconstrued; using illegal courts and the orders issued by them. According to him, the Office of Sheriff is the ONLY constitutionaly authorized law enforcement in this country. He has no use for city or state police.

He cooperates with the Sheriff's Office, just not with any Court in our fair state. That's what Alzhiemer's and related dementia will do to you.

As others have said...excercise caution when dealing with them. I once made a traffic stop where I got the "I do not recognize your authority as a police officer" line...and that a sheriff has the powers (as your guy has said). Whats funny is our police departments are seperate than our sheriffs office (our SO typically does warrants, peace orders, and other documents of the court). When I was on the stop, a sheriff's deputy recognized the vehicle these guys were in and pulled over to assist. It was not a pretty incident in the end.

[KenW.]

I responded tonight to back a city officer on a domestic inside his soveriegn trailer park. When he arrived at the scene, I headed him off so the city guys could handle the police call.

He insists that as a soverign citizen that owns those trailers, he can go inside any one of them, at any time, to search for anything he considered contraband. I told him that sounded kind of like nazism or communism, and he didn't like that much.

[ray8285]

[QUOTE=johnny_bravo]So in order to be a "citizen" of the "United States" one must be in the "United States".
QUOTE]
Ummm no...you don't have to be IN the United States. In order to be a citizen of the US you need be born here or naturalized. I can go any where in the world and still be a citizen of the US.

[nr5667]

Interestingly, if you are born to two American citizens outside U.S borders you are not a citizen. Obviously it's easy to get the citizenship, but it highlights how interesting laws and the way they function are.

[KenW.]

The 77 year-old Soveriegn Citizen assaulted his adult daughter. She convinced him to let her take him to his Dr. The Dr. saw what was happening and had him committed for a 72 hour mental observation hold. If they send him to a center straight from where he is now, I'll get to do the transport. It's my week on call for mental commitments...

I'll still get to do the evictions at the trailer park. Most likely get another 5 next week. We'll get them in batches of 5 until the park is cleaned up. It's under more sensible management now.

His diagnosis is Alzhiemer's, dementia, and some kind of paranoid disorder. It brings me no pleasure to see him sent away... But it is for everyone's good.

[KenW.]

At his competancy review hearing last week, they decided to SET HIM FREE.

His ailment is not behavioral,,, it is medical. Alzhiemer's.

[tony.o]

Interestingly, if you are born to two American citizens outside U.S borders you are not a citizen. Obviously it's easy to get the citizenship, but it highlights how interesting laws and the way they function are.

Who told you that?:confused:If you are born to an American parents outside US borders, a Report of Birth of an American Born Abroad is filed and your birth certificate is issued by The US State Department. I believe one who is born abroad is a US citizen even if only one of the birth parents is a US citizen. Other nations don't have birthright citizenship just because one is born within their borders. I think even Canada stopped doing that because of all the anchor babies.

[MDS]

[QUOTE=johnny_bravo]So in order to be a "citizen" of the "United States" one must be in the "United States".
QUOTE]
Ummm no...you don't have to be IN the United States. In order to be a citizen of the US you need be born here or naturalized. I can go any where in the world and still be a citizen of the US.

Unless you're tony.o, who is of the belief that if you are naturalized, your citizenship is not of the same status as US born peoples.