Questions From a New Officer

[rmag]

Hello, I am a newly certified CO for the state of Florida. I have a couple of questions regarding firearms. Can we carry concealed off duty with only our badge and state id ? What about carrying a weapon visible to and from work?
I have heard that we don not need a concealed weapons permit as we are sworn law inforcement. I have also heard rumor that the PBA and our new governor ( Grist ) will be trying again to give us arrest powers. I donr know how true that is. Hopefully it will come to a point where we will be issued a firearm.

Thanks in advace
Rob

[Bowles]

This is going to start a long lengthy thread that has been beaten to death in this forum but since it's new to you I'll jump in.

I am not familiar with any FL law but under the Federal Law "The Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act of 2004" if you meet the criteria as a qualified law enforcement officer then you have the authority to carry a concealed weapon anywhere in the country on your badge and ID.

You MUST meet each and every one of the following criteria to qualify:


Qualified law enforcement officer means an employee of a governmental agency who--

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

`(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

`(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

Now, please do not take the word of someone on an internet forum regarding this or any other legal issue. Anyone can claim to be anything here. There are Thugs, Trolls, Former Inmates and generally stupid people who post here as well as your fellow officers. Me, I'm actually a Vietnamese Prostitute :)

[BillP]

Me, I'm actually a Vietnamese Prostitute :)

I thought there was something...eh...different about you :D

Seriously, this issue has been run through a couple of times already.

A bit of research in the archives will save a ton of new postings, and will provide pretty much the entire spectrum of probable answers to this issue.

[Matt-NC]

Yeah, here in NC, HR 218 doesn't apply to us C/Os, as we do not have powers of arrest off our facility grounds. We can detain any perpetrator anywhere in the state until law enforcement personnel arrive, but we cannot arrest anyone. Thus we have to go through the whole CCW process like anyone else if we want to carry concealed.

Matt

[Arkansas Red]

Best advice from me would be to research HR 218 yourself. Ask around your work place (from compentent employees) and if your still in doubt go get your CHL if you feel its necessary.
I agree that a clause should be put in for Correction Officers stating they can carry on badge and id for protection only but until I get elected... :p
You also need to check department policy to make sure your department will back you should you be stopped or have to draw it.

Just my opinion.

[grumpyirishman]

If you don't have arrest powers, you are a Correections Officer, not a Law enforcement Officer.

[hankrearden2000]

Yeah, here in NC, HR 218 doesn't apply to us C/Os, as we do not have powers of arrest off our facility grounds. We can detain any perpetrator anywhere in the state until law enforcement personnel arrive, but we cannot arrest anyone. Thus we have to go through the whole CCW process like anyone else if we want to carry concealed.

Matt

If you possess any statutory powers of arrest at all, no matter how limited, and meet the other conditions, you are qualified under LEOSA. We in the Bureau of Prisons possess very limited statutory arrest authority. Consequently, we are covered under LEOSA. So says the Attorney General of the United States. The agency hates it that we can now protect ourselves from former and future thugs, but it's the law and there's nothing they can do about it.

[hankrearden2000]

If you don't have arrest powers, you are a Correections Officer, not a Law enforcement Officer.

Many COs in many jurisdictions do have arrest authority. LEOSA does not grant arrest authority. Think of it as a concealed carry permit that's valid in all 50 states and all US Territories and Possessions. It's purpose is to allow you to protect you hide against criminal attack. Nothing more.

[Bowles]

NC Correctional Officers do have one power of arrest, the arrest of a escaped inmate. This is a statutory power of arrest granted by Chapter 148-4 of State Law. However, I do not feel comfortable carrying under this law without a definite yes or no answer from an official source. I have written to the State and Federal AG's office and to the NC DOC Legal Dept. This has been going on for over a year and so far no one has given me any answer.

FYI when the FOP was lobbying for passage of this bill one of the examples used to show the need for it was one of a North Carolina Correctional Officer beaten to death by two former inmates from the facility he worked at. Seems strange that the death of a NC Officer would be used for passage of a bill that wouldn't apply to NC Officers.

Last December a inmate spit in my face. That's a felony in NC "Malicious Conduct by a Prisoner" I alone obtained the warrant and alone presented the case to the Grand Jury. This inmate is now servering an additional two years for this. There were no police involved at all. My question is if Correctional Officers aren't law enforcement who exactly arrested this guy?

[hankrearden2000]

Strange indeed. Until you understand the mentality of the people who run prison agencies. Remember, we're just guards, expendable, like a pair of flex-cuffs that you use and throw away. When the agency holds you in such high esteem, you can't expect the Attorney General to buck the wishes of the politically appointed agency head and make a decision that said head finds objectionable. The only way to remedy the situation is to organize. If the majority of NC COs would join the FOP then you would have an effective voice.

[hankrearden2000]

You also need to check department policy to make sure your department will back you should you be stopped or have to draw it.

Just my opinion.

If you are qualified, whether or not your department backs you is irrelevant. Have your I.D., a copy of the statute describing your arrest authority, and whatever documentation your department uses to document that you have qualified to its standards with a firearm. If you are arrested anyway, see an experienced civil rights attorney because you are probably looking at a Section 1984 civil rights violation against the arresting officer and possibly the department if it is a county or municipal agency. The only possible backing you need from your agency is their confirmation that you work for the agency in such and such position or capacity.

If you have to draw your weapon, your agency is even more useless. Plan on being arrested and held in custody until the incident is investigated and charges declined or dropped, or until you are arraigned and can post bond. Remember, if you must pause and wonder if your life is in danger, it isn't.

[Matt-NC]

If you are qualified, whether or not your department backs you is irrelevant. Have your I.D., a copy of the statute describing your arrest authority, and whatever documentation your department uses to document that you have qualified to its standards with a firearm. If you are arrested anyway, see an experienced civil rights attorney because you are probably looking at a Section 1984 civil rights violation against the arresting officer and possibly the department if it is a county or municipal agency. The only possible backing you need from your agency is their confirmation that you work for the agency in such and such position or capacity.

If you have to draw your weapon, your agency is even more useless. Plan on being arrested and held in custody until the incident is investigated and charges declined or dropped, or until you are arraigned and can post bond. Remember, if you must pause and wonder if your life is in danger, it isn't.

We were taught that (at least here in NC) drawing on someone is considered use of deadly force, as is shooting and missing.

You can be legally and technically correct when armed with all the appropriate paperwork; however you will likely be suspended without pay until the investigation is cleared up. Gonna be tough to hire an attorney without an income.

Easier method is to get a CCW permit.

To even bring a properly licensed weapon onto State Property (ie.: prison facility) you have to have a form approved by the Superintendent. So if you have a CCW permit and keep it locked in your vehicle's trunk, you can be disciplined/terminated/arrested for bringing a weapon onto state property if you don't have that form allowing you to do so. Tells you how much confidence our Chain of Command has in their staff...

Matt

[P.A. Cracker]

We are not authorized to carry a visible weapon going to and from work. We are allowed to have a firearm in the vehicle at the institution so long as it is in a locked container excluding the glove box.

In regards to carrying off duty we are exempt from the concealed weapon law.

Section 790.06(5)(b), Florida Statutes, states that a Florida Law Enforcement Officer, Correctional Officer, Correctional Probation Officer as defined in s. 943.10 who holds an active certification from the CJSTC is exempt from the concealed weapon licensing requirements of s. 790.06, F.S.

This exemption applies only to the carrying of a concealed weapon or firearm as a "private citizen."

[DaytonaBeachCO]

Section 790.06(5)(b), Florida Statutes, states that a Florida Law Enforcement Officer, Correctional Officer, Correctional Probation Officer as defined in s. 943.10 who holds an active certification from the CJSTC is exempt from the concealed weapon licensing requirements of s. 790.06, F.S.

This exemption applies only to the carrying of a concealed weapon or firearm as a "private citizen."
Thanks Cracker

[PRIME EVIL]

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