Off-Duty and Post Office??

[FalconRider]

I tried to search this but the page kept coming up "done" and blank so I didn't get far.

When I come home from working a shift its not uncommon for me to swing through the post office (our small town has noone deliver mail, po box only) and grab my mail.

I got to thinking about this the other day and realized I may very well be breaking federal law as I'm not sure that as an off duty officer I'm allowed to step foot inside with a weapon.

Does anyone know a valid answer on this?

[cowbucs]

I asked this same question of my supervisor the other day. His reply was (in Florida) a LEO is allowed to carry his/her off-duty weapon into a post office. Everyone else is in violation of federal law.

[FalconRider]

I asked this same question of my supervisor the other day. His reply was (in Florida) a LEO is allowed to carry his/her off-duty weapon into a post office. Everyone else is in violation of federal law.

Makes sense BUT... that would mean that being in Florida is a non-issue as a state couldn't make it legal. It would have to be a federal allowance. I've tried googling this and come up with nada.

[Tim Dees]

When I come home from working a shift its not uncommon for me to swing through the post office (our small town has noone deliver mail, po box only) and grab my mail.

I got to thinking about this the other day and realized I may very well be breaking federal law as I'm not sure that as an off duty officer I'm allowed to step foot inside with a weapon.As a practical matter, I think you're okay. You would have to encounter a postal inspector with a serious case of terminal boredom before there would be an issue, and I expect that the first wave would be asking you not to enter the post office while armed.

This is obviously dated experience, but the post office lobbies in Reno were open 24 hours a day, so that people working odd hours would have access to their lockboxes and could pick up their mail (the customer service counters were open during the usual hours). We had a standing request to do walk-throughs in the evening and on the graveyard shifts to encourage the residentially challenged folks that had tried to establish living quarters there to move on. I don't think any of the post office folks thought we were going to do this unarmed. I also walked into the post office during business hours numerous times in uniform and in street clothes, and all of the staff knew who and what I was. They never did anything but wave hello.

[Hey There Chief]

Yes you can carry your weapon into the post office. That is if you're a certified SWORN officer. Just like you can carry you weapon in any state in the United States if you are a SWORN officer.

[FalconRider]

Yes you can carry your weapon into the post office. That is if you're a certified SWORN officer. Just like you can carry you weapon in any state in the United States if you are a SWORN officer.

Not sure I see your logic. I'm a sworn officer but can't carry into the DOC facility that I also work at. I can't carry into a courthouse. As far as I know, I couldn't carry into the basement of the St. Louis Arch when I visited there a few months ago. Being a sworn officer doesn't give us free reign to go anywhere we'd like with a weapon. I'm going to the hospital tomorrow morning with my wife. I'm not allowed to carry there either. The hospital down the road is fine with it.

All of this being said, I did find an interesting article that I'd like opinions on.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html

[Airforcop]

As a LEO you can carry just about anywhere legally. However, on private property a property owner does have the right to not allow you to carry a weapon, LEO or not (if you're off duty). Hence, you can't carry at Disney, etc...

[PPDMO373]

When I worked as a LEO at a decent sized Airport in the Midwest, we were tasked with doing lots of security checks....and one of them was the Mail Processing Station that was next to one of the taxiways.

I have been all over the place, armed up, in uniform and in plan clothes (depending on my assignment) and never, ever did anyone say a word to me about being armed.

Further, I was in there off-duty/armed up all the time because I had a PO Box there....everyone knew I was a LEO....and never did I have an issue with anyone.

[Miller Time]

Not sure I see your logic. I'm a sworn officer but can't carry into the DOC facility that I also work at. I can't carry into a courthouse. As far as I know, I couldn't carry into the basement of the St. Louis Arch when I visited there a few months ago. Being a sworn officer doesn't give us free reign to go anywhere we'd like with a weapon. I'm going to the hospital tomorrow morning with my wife. I'm not allowed to carry there either. The hospital down the road is fine with it.

All of this being said, I did find an interesting article that I'd like opinions on.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html


I don't think anyone can carry inside a DOC facility. The courthouses here let you as long as your a sworn officer, they are happy to have more LEO's present. Maybe it's the area I'm in, but most places allow us. I haven't had a problem yet. The post office should be ok though to answer your question.

[beachcop05]

I tried to search this but the page kept coming up "done" and blank so I didn't get far.

When I come home from working a shift its not uncommon for me to swing through the post office (our small town has noone deliver mail, po box only) and grab my mail.

I got to thinking about this the other day and realized I may very well be breaking federal law as I'm not sure that as an off duty officer I'm allowed to step foot inside with a weapon.

Does anyone know a valid answer on this?


Just keep it concealed and don't tell anyone, who's gonna know?

[ppd101]

As a police officer, you are allowed to carry a gun anywhere. Although exceptions and common sense will come into any situation. 1. Most DOC buildings won't even allow on duty officers to carry their weapon inside. Safety issue due to the closeness of inmates. 2. You are not allowed to carry a gun in the state of Missouri if you are under the influence of alcohol or drugs. 3. Some courts will not allow guns past the check points whether your on or off duty. 4. You can't bring a gun onto airplanes unless you are escorting a prisoner or have gone through the gun safety course approved by the FAA.
As a certified sworn police officer, you can carry a gun concealed, in your vehicle and into any business whether there is a sign posting "no guns allowed". However, this may very from state to state. You may be asked not to come into a concert carrying your gun, but as long as you carry your commission card, Badge and ID you aren't breaking any laws.

[SoCalFed]

Not to rehash what others have said, as they are generally on the money. Remember just because you're a cop, it does not give you the right to carry anywhere. Generally you can carry MOST places, but not all. HR218 has exceptions clearly written into it which still allow states to restrict carrying. In addition, certain federal laws still bar the carrying of weapons by those not on official business (i.e. off-duty LEO). Take for instance in a national park like Yosemite. If you're an off-duty local LEO, you (like the rest of the public) can't legally carry a loaded firearm in the park. HR218 or not. Just like the post office, could you get jammed up? Yes, to the letter of the law, but in the spirit of the law, 99.9% would say no as long as you keep it out of sight and handle yourself in a professional manner. Good common sense being used on the part of the off-duty LEO and the on-duty officer whose jurisidction you're in will make these issues literal non-issues...


Straight from the text of HR218:

This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

`(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

[lowdrag]

Just start picking up the mail while on your shift if you worry about it. Problem solved.

[Reapp]

As a LEO you can carry just about anywhere legally. However, on private property a property owner does have the right to not allow you to carry a weapon, LEO or not (if you're off duty). Hence, you can't carry at Disney, etc...

They cannot prohibit you from carrying in Texas... (sections 46.02 and 46.03 are the weapons offenses)

§ 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03
do not apply to:
(1) peace officers or special investigators under
Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section
prohibits a peace officer or special investigator from carrying a
weapon in this state, including in an establishment in this state
serving the public, regardless of whether the peace officer or
special investigator is engaged in the actual discharge of the
officer's or investigator's duties while carrying the weapon;

[FalconRider]

Asked the postmaster and she said she'd let me know. Picked up the mail this morning and in the mail was a note that said "I was told by the higher-ups that the answer is no".

So, gots me.

[nrneuha]

We the Police, we can to whatever the ###k we want!!

[Hey There Chief]

Not sure I see your logic. I'm a sworn officer but can't carry into the DOC facility that I also work at. I can't carry into a courthouse. As far as I know, I couldn't carry into the basement of the St. Louis Arch when I visited there a few months ago. Being a sworn officer doesn't give us free reign to go anywhere we'd like with a weapon. I'm going to the hospital tomorrow morning with my wife. I'm not allowed to carry there either. The hospital down the road is fine with it.

All of this being said, I did find an interesting article that I'd like opinions on.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html

I certainly don't want to work in your county. After all the incidents in court, you are not allowed to carry a weapon? That's crazy.

[GoldBadge]

Here is the law, interpret it as you will:

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 930

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—

(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

[SoCalFed]

They cannot prohibit you from carrying in Texas... (sections 46.02 and 46.03 are the weapons offenses)

§ 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03
do not apply to:
(1) peace officers or special investigators under
Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section
prohibits a peace officer or special investigator from carrying a
weapon in this state, including in an establishment in this state
serving the public, regardless of whether the peace officer or
special investigator is engaged in the actual discharge of the
officer's or investigator's duties while carrying the weapon;

They may not be able to prohibit you from carrying (in regards to non-federal locations in Texas), however I believe they could deny you entry if it is private property. Regardless of state law and HR218, other federal laws are still in full effect, which ban just about anyone, including off-duty local LEO, from carrying in certain federal facilities.

[beachcop05]

Asked the postmaster and she said she'd let me know. Picked up the mail this morning and in the mail was a note that said "I was told by the higher-ups that the answer is no".

So, gots me.


Dude don't ask or tell anybody, just carry it concealed and don't do anything stupid.

[FalconRider]

I certainly don't want to work in your county. After all the incidents in court, you are not allowed to carry a weapon? That's crazy.

Federal courthouse unless on official duty.

[J_Mann]

If I have my uniform on, I have my gun on. Plane and simple. When you're in uniform, whether on duty or not, you're a police officer. As far as you carrying your weapon to those other places, I suppose that's up to your department policy.

[jeffIL]

Asked the postmaster and she said she'd let me know. Picked up the mail this morning and in the mail was a note that said "I was told by the higher-ups that the answer is no".

So, gots me.

Why would you even ask for permission to carry your gun when you walk into the post office for five minutes?? Carry it concealed. No one knows and if you need it, you have it.

[jrothen4]

Wow reading this gives me a headache. I think the answer is common sense!

When I went to DC this past May for police week, I carried everywhere. I mean everywhere. National Archives, the Museums, Arlington National Cemetery, even onto the grounds of the US Capitol building when the president was speaking! Then again it was police week and was the best time I've had as a cop.

[SlowDownThere]

Asked the postmaster and she said she'd let me know. Picked up the mail this morning and in the mail was a note that said "I was told by the higher-ups that the answer is no".

So, gots me.

They have to say that to cover their butt. Believe me, nobody, including the post master, has a problem with you carrying in the manner you describe.

While they may not give you explicit permission, they implicitly want you there.

[GoldBadge]

If I have my uniform on, I have my gun on. Plane and simple. When you're in uniform, whether on duty or not, you're a police officer. As far as you carrying your weapon to those other places, I suppose that's up to your department policy.

Carrying a firearm (especially off duty) on federal property has little to do with your department policy. In some federal court houses no one except for deputy US marshals can be armed, this includes federal agents.

As to other federal buildings, if you are summoned there on a call, you can probably keep your firearm even though there are general prohibitions against it. If you are on personal business, you have to lock it up. Forget this "I'm a cop 24/7" stuff. You are a cop 24/7, but that doesn't entitle you to be armed everywhere you go.

As to post offices, the way I read the statute, any on duty LEO can carry. Other persons can do so if they are lawfully carrying and do not commit a crime (or do not intent to do so) on postal property.

For those who were allowed to carry in certain DC landmark buildings, consider it as a courtesy that was given to you. When I worked for the Secret Service, if the president was in a building, no off duty LEO's could carry at all. Those allowed to carry was severely restricted.

[PPDMO373]

Carrying a firearm (especially off duty) on federal property has little to do with your department policy. In some federal court houses no one except for deputy US marshals can be armed, this includes federal agents.

As to other federal buildings, if you are summoned there on a call, you can probably keep your firearm even though there are general prohibitions against it. If you are on personal business, you have to lock it up. Forget this "I'm a cop 24/7" stuff. You are a cop 24/7, but that doesn't entitle you to be armed everywhere you go.

As to post offices, the way I read the statute, any on duty LEO can carry. Other persons can do so if they are lawfully carrying and do not commit a crime (or do not intent to do so) on postal property.

For those who were allowed to carry in certain DC landmark buildings, consider it as a courtesy that was given to you. When I worked for the Secret Service, if the president was in a building, no off duty LEO's could carry at all. Those allowed to carry was severely restricted.

Only folks that can carry in our bldgs (DOJ) are LE from DOJ....ie FBI, USMS, BOP, ATFE, etc.....all others lock them up. We do allow a few exceptions.....but not very many......

I have never had a problem carrying anywhere in DC.....only places I haven't tried were the WH, USSC, and USC. Not sure about the Courthouses out here....but back in KC, no one was allowed to carry in the Federal Courthouse but USMS. We could carry in the Federal Buildings.....but not the Courthouse....

[nesgarcia]

I have accidently carried in the Social Security Office off duty and was asked nicely to just place it back in my vehicle. Even if you are in uniform unless you have federal authority you will not be allowed to carry.

I have been to the Post Office in uniform and out of uniform (I had my weapon out with badge displayed) and have not been said anything to. I have been to the counter to purchase stamps and then went to pickup mail from my box. The Post Office I go to is a very busy one.

[ArmouredSainT]

I've been to federal court and told by the retiring marshals there to make sure it is left in the car. :o

[Taylor1430]

LOL...I never even thought of this as an issue. I too get my mail in a post office and never gave it a second thought about carrying in there. The post office is in my 'post' so I stop in on and off duty. When on duty, I get the 'How is officer so-and-so doing?' and the friendly wave or smile from other employees. Our departmental policy dictates that when carrying off-duty, it MUST be concealed. I get my mail all the time off-duty and never gave it a second thought.

The only time I have ever had it being an issue was when a relative was having a baby in the hospital at Ft Belvoir in Virginia (I'm a LEO in Maryland). The guard saw the bulge in my side and asked about it...He called his supervisor. They requested that I secure my weapon in the trunk of my vehicle while inside the hospital. The officers were very cordial to me and professional and never gave me an attitude when they realized I was entering the base with a firearm...they asked, I answered, they checked my credentials and requested it be secured. On the way out, I pulled off the road, stuck my holster back on my belt and they all gave me a wave as I pulled off.

[towncop]

Dude don't ask or tell anybody, just carry it concealed and don't do anything stupid.

I like your mentality here. :rolleyes: If it's against the law, do it anyway, just be quiet about it? Niiiice. :rolleyes:

[jeffIL]

I like your mentality here. :rolleyes: If it's against the law, do it anyway, just be quiet about it? Niiiice. :rolleyes:

Beachcop is right. Do you really think anyone cares if he carries off duty and he is the police?? If you do it right, no one knows you have a gun on you. Thats the point of carrying concealed.

[towncop]

Beachcop is right. Do you really think anyone cares if he carries off duty and he is the police?? If you do it right, no one knows you have a gun on you. Thats the point of carrying concealed.

That's not the point. If it is in fact "AGAINST THE LAW," just because we're cops does not mean it's ok to do it anyway, concealed or not.

[cityblusuit]

Asked the postmaster and she said she'd let me know. Picked up the mail this morning and in the mail was a note that said "I was told by the higher-ups that the answer is no".

So, gots me.


I am just being difficult here, but sometimes the problem comes simply fom asking the question. Any cop who legally carries his weapon off duty I am certain has walked into a Post Office. I am not saying you should intentionally break the law but in the days before HR218 officers carried out of state with the attitude that no one will know I have a gun unless I use it and regardless I had better be justified if it is used. That being said, I cant help but point out that you said the Postmaster stuck a note in your mailbox telling you that answer is no. Is that not a violation of law in that the note was placed in your box and I presume no postage was paid. Its the same type of trouble letter carriers got into when citizens left a christmas card for the carrier in their mailbox. I doubt if the postmaster is gonna turn herself in, accordingly, I dont think she will turn you in either.

IN response to those other who correctly say "its against the law" ...I have been dispatched to the Post Office many times for after hours alarms, medical calls, disturbances etc and let us not forget the white powder calls shortly after 9-11 and nobody told you or I to check our gun or that you couldnt enter and everytime somebody "went postal", there were the cops and they were darn glad we had our guns!!!

[chaser266]

Beachcop is right. Do you really think anyone cares if he carries off duty and he is the police?? If you do it right, no one knows you have a gun on you. Thats the point of carrying concealed.
Nobody knows you have the gun UNTIL you have to use it. In which case the criminal (and/or his family) will demand that you be charged with any conceivable violation connected to your actions. Hence the discussion.

And if you think that nobody would prosecute an off-duty cop because he is a good guy protecting himself (or the community) -- you have a lot more trust in the system than I do.

[cityblusuit]

Nobody knows you have the gun UNTIL you have to use it. In which case the criminal (and/or his family) will demand that you be charged with any conceivable violation connected to your actions. Hence the discussion.

And if you think that nobody would prosecute an off-duty cop because he is a good guy protecting himself (or the community) -- you have a lot more trust in the system than I do.


And if you think that nobody would prosecute an on-duty cop because he is a good guy protecting himself (or the community) -- you have a lot more trust in the system than I do.

Yes, I digress, but the simple fact is that inherent in this job is risk, not just to your safety and well being, but to your freedom and independence as well. How many cops doing their job, doing the right thing, have been prosecuted by an aggressive prosecutor looking to put a feather in thier cap as he/she approaches an election season?? How many cops have done the right thing and not be backed by their department. Whether you like it or not, everytime you put on a uniform, strap on a gun, or put your flat badge in your pocket, you place yourself, your family, your home and your financial security and survival in the balance. Again this job entails risk, all kinds, and we are all held accountable for both our actions and inactions.

[chaser266]

And if you think that nobody would prosecute an on-duty cop because he is a good guy protecting himself (or the community) -- you have a lot more trust in the system than I do.

Yes, I digress, but the simple fact is that inherent in this job is risk, not just to your safety and well being, but to your freedom and independence as well. How many cops doing their job, doing the right thing, have been prosecuted by an aggressive prosecutor looking to put a feather in thier cap as he/she approaches an election season?? How many cops have done the right thing and not be backed by their department. Whether you like it or not, everytime you put on a uniform, strap on a gun, or put your flat badge in your pocket, you place yourself, your family, your home and your financial security and survival in the balance. Again this job entails risk, all kinds, and we are all held accountable for both our actions and inactions.
That's exactly the kind of thing I'm referring to. I can definitely envision a situation in which an off-duty cop shoots somebody in self-defense at a post office, is 100% justified, but ultimately gets hit with some bogus charge as a result of (irrational) community outrage. And the same type of thing could happen in an on-duty shoot, although that is not really germane to this thread. (The statute already posted clearly indicates that it does not apply to on-duty cops.)