bureau of diplomatic security-opening

[tripledouble]

Well, I took their online test and did not pass. :(

Anyway, if you go to their website, they have openings for special agent now. Do a Google search on "Bureau of diplomatic security". Check out the job announcement.

[SOCALCOP]

What kind of life would that be???

[qixfeet]

It could be ok if you don't have a family. I seems it would be pretty tough if you do have one.

[FinnGuard]

What kind of life would that be???

correct me if I´m wrong, but they are first assigned to U.S for a couple of years, jobs include security functions, investigating visa and passport frauds and protecting secretary of state and foreign diplomats. After this they are assigned to foreign missions where they are responsible for security in embassies. Usually they work as a assisting regional security officers for one or two missions, and after that they work as regional security officers. That means basically working as a security chief of the embassy.

[iflyaaord]

What kind of life would that be???
*Qualifications*

* U.S. citizenship
* BA/BS degree at time of appointment
* 20 years of age to apply.Candidates must be at least 21 years old but must not have reached their 37th birth date at time of appointment.
* If required, registration under the Military Selective Service Act
* Successfully undergo written and oral assessment
* Successfully undergo a thorough background investigation and qualify for a Top Secret security clearance
* Pass a stringent medical exam, be available for worldwide assignment, and qualify for a Department of State Class 01 medical clearance
* Pass physical fitness tests and be fit for strenuous physical exertion
* Possess a valid U.S. driver's license
* Be willing to carry and use firearms and qualify with firearms throughout career
* Be willing to travel and accept assignments throughout the world. Officers are required to live and work a substantial portion of their career overseas.
* Foreign language ability is desirable, but not mandatory
* Successfully complete all aspects of 6-month training

The men and women of Diplomatic Security are specially trained federal law enforcement professionals. Diplomatic Security special agents are Foreign Service security officers assigned domestically and overseas to ensure that American diplomacy is conducted in a safe and secure environment. Overseas, they advise ambassadors on all security matters and manage a complex range of security programs designed to protect people, facilities, and information. In the United States, agents investigate passport and visa fraud, conduct personnel security investigations, and protect the Secretary of State and certain foreign dignitaries.




*Training: Comprehensive and Specialized*

A substantial training investment is made in each candidate selected for this program.

Six months of training begin with an orientation period in Washington, DC, followed by basic and specialized training at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Brunswick, Georgia. Training continues at State Department facilities in the Washington area. Candidates must pass all required tests at FLETC.

Initially, candidates are trained in personal protection techniques, criminal law and investigation, background investigations, first aid, firearms, and defensive driving. To prepare for specific overseas assignments, officers are trained in security management, post operations, counterintelligence, electronic security, and languages. Other instruction includes advanced firearms techniques, explosive devices, ordnance detection, arson investigation, and medical assistance.




*First Assignment: Practical Application of the Basics*

Special agents are most frequently assigned first to a domestic field office for 2 years. Here, they receive practical experience performing the variety of security functions for which the Bureau of Diplomatic Security is responsible in the United States, including background investigations on personnel, passport and visa fraud investigations, counterintelligence, and other criminal investigations.

Domestic assignments also can include protection services for the Secretary of State and certain visiting foreign dignitaries or temporary assignment to an overseas post to perform a specific task.




*Overseas Assignment: On to Greater Responsibility*

Special agents spend a substantial portion of their careers abroad serving at diplomatic posts. While assigned abroad, special agents are often referred to as regional security officers (RSOs).

Overseas assignments offer great opportunity for career growth and usually occur immediately after the initial tour of duty in a domestic field office. Assignment abroad can, however, occur much earlier depending upon needs of the service.

At U.S. embassies and consulates abroad, RSOs develop and implement the various aspects of a comprehensive security program designed to protect personnel, property, and information against terrorists, foreign intelligence agents, and criminals.

With proven aptitudes and on-the-job performance, a Diplomatic Security special agent may advance to the position of regional security officer, responsible for managing security operations for an embassy or for several diplomatic posts within an assigned area. RSOs work closely with top State Department officials and serve as operational supervisors of U.S. Marine Security Guard detachments.

Domestic assignments are equally challenging and rewarding. An officer can aspire to managing field office programs or a Department headquarters office responsible for support operations.



*Salary and Benefits*

Starting salaries range from $37,413 to $51,788, depending on qualifications, location of assignment, and related specialized experience. Upon successful completion of all training, special agents become eligible for Law Enforcement Availability Pay (LEAP), equal to a 25 percent increase of their base salary.

Satisfactory performance earns employees automatic grade and pay increases during the first 3 years. Thereafter, promotions are competitive based on the recommendations of annual selection panels.

An excellent benefits package includes:

* Group life and health insurance
* Annual and sick leave accrual; retirement plan
* Law Enforcement Availability Pay (LEAP)
* Government-provided quarters or housing allowance overseas
* Home leave to the United States between overseas assignments
* Rest and recuperation leave, with transportation partially paid, when employees and their dependents are assigned to designated hardship posts
* Cost of living allowance
* Educational allowance for dependents under certain circumstances
* Danger pay at designated posts
* Moving expenses for assignments

A high level of responsibility, good opportunities for promotion, and an excellent benefits package await you. Make the most of your unique skills and abilities as a Diplomatic Security special agent.


******IMHO. These guys/gals are badasses! 4 year probationary period! FBI is only 2.******

[PPDMO373]

What kind of life would that be???

It sucks. My buddy has worked for them for the last 4 years and is looking.

His first 2 years was domestic......and he was never at his home station. He has been to Iraq, Afganistan, Liberia, and every other craphole country in the world on 2-4 month assignements.

He's now out here in DC and is going wherever the Secretary is going....

He basically has no life at all.....and he's not happy with that.

So, they maybe "bad ***" to work for....but you need to think about quality of life if you are married or think that you will ever get married....and if that's going to work for you...

[Gibbmusic]

Well, I took their online test and did not pass. :(

Anyway, if you go to their website, they have openings for special agent now. Do a Google search on "Bureau of diplomatic security". Check out the job announcement.

How long did it take them to tell you that you failed the online test? I took it a few days ago and haven't heard anything.

Gibbmusic

[tripledouble]

How long did it take them to tell you that you failed the online test? I took it a few days ago and haven't heard anything.

Gibbmusic
After you get to the end of the written test, it goes over your answers and determines whether or not you passed. You are told whether you passed or not.

[MrJustice]

If only to be young again. Sounds fasinating! Certainly a rewarding career for a young man/woman with no family. Instant recipe for divorce, however, if married...LOL....go for it guys!!

[mjcek]

How long did it take them to tell you that you failed the online test? I took it a few days ago and haven't heard anything.

Gibbmusic

It tells you right after you finish....

[Gibbmusic]

Well in that case I must have passed because it told me that someone would go over the results and would contact me with further information if I was selected to participate in an assessment, or something to that effect.

Gibbmusic

[intheair]

I took the test and received the same message.

[syloi]

has anyone heard anything back from them yet?

[intheair]

Not a thing bt I have been wondering if anyone else out there has

[orangeshirt]

I passed the written test, too........just waiting to hear something. it would be such a cool job, but I'm not expecting anything!

[orangeshirt]

has anybody heard anything yet?

[Ammo22]

I took the test and passed too, well I didnt get anything that says I failed. I remember when this job was last posted after the test was taken a notice appeared on the Department of the State website that stated a mean score was being established and those that made the cut score will be notified. I also read that this process will take up to two years to complete. I really think that things will be set in motion after the new year. This is just what I think though I have no valid concrete information. Definately a cool job though. So just like any other law enforcement job it is all a process that takes forever.

[orangeshirt]

I checked another forum, and apparently, people started getting calls for BEX back in November and December from the early October test...not the one that we took, in late October.

Ammo22 is right, I think that BEX calls will be going out after the 1st of the year. Good luck, everybody!

[zxcvbnm]

The job announcement is no longer up correct?

[PPDMO373]

The job announcement is no longer up correct?

Correct.....there is not a active announcement.......

They only put it out once/twice a year at best. You just have to keep checking the DSS homepage.....

http://www.state.gov/m/ds/career/

[zxcvbnm]

Correct.....there is not a active announcement.......

They only put it out once/twice a year at best. You just have to keep checking the DSS homepage.....

http://www.state.gov/m/ds/career/


Damn, bad luck.

Well hopefully I'll catch it next time around.

Do you happen to know how they hire inexperienced candidates versus other LE agencies? Is it reasonable to try and get in with just a 4 year degree?

[PPDMO373]

Do you happen to know how they hire inexperienced candidates versus other LE agencies? Is it reasonable to try and get in with just a 4 year degree?

I have no clue....sorry...

[tripledouble]

Damn, bad luck.

Well hopefully I'll catch it next time around.

Do you happen to know how they hire inexperienced candidates versus other LE agencies? Is it reasonable to try and get in with just a 4 year degree?
Minimum requirements are similar to other 1811 jobs. In your case, I think the answer is no. Either get more education or get some work experience.

Check www.usajobs.opm.gov on a regular basis for other criminal investigator/special agent job openings. Good luck.

[PPDMO373]

I will say that my buddy that works for them has 4 years military (Infantry), a 4 year degree in CJ, 3-4 years as a LEO (he worked at a very large State University) and was about done with his Masters in CJ when he got picked up by them.

Most of his co-workers that I have talked to have not only the 4 year degree that they require buy either LEO experience or military experience.....and a lot of those have both.

Very, very competitive to get on with them.....

[HeavenSoldier]

I passed the text and have a BEX exam scheduled march 26 in georgia. It took about 2 months from the time I applied. I totally disagree that the DSS is a bad job, its a great job if you ask me just look at this post http://www.911jobforums.com/showthread.php?t=42372&highlight=dss+update. But some may not enjoying traveling, but thats a hobby of mine. Plus the salary and benefits is a plus. I would goto 911jobforums.com and type in DSS and their is a lot of information there. But the DSS may not be for everyone, which is why they may not like the job. But I agree if only there was a option not to travel as much. Because I'm was raised in a single parent home and try my best to stay close to my mom, as much as possible. Thanks and God Bless.

[PPDMO373]

I totally disagree that the DSS is a bad job, its a great job if you ask me

Once again...I am going off what my buddies that are trying to have familes are telling me. For someone single it would be a great job (in my opinion if you like to travel a lot)....

One is here in DC and the other one just left DC after a 2 year stint here and is back in Houston.

Both have traveled a ton of miles and are never home......and it's getting to them.....even though they are supposed to be on Domestic Assignments right now.

My buddy from out here is now in the ME for the next 45 days (he left 2 weeks ago)....and the one in Houston is about to go to somewhere in Africa for 60 days......I just talked to him this afternoon and he's dealing with a ****ed off wife because he was told he wouldn't be traveling for a while.....but yet he is......

Both are looking to go elsewhere but with hiring freezes at where they want to go (ATFE/DEA) that's not going to happen anytime soon.....

[HeavenSoldier]

I'm young so visiting foreign countries may be exciting for me. But I agree with your friends at times the DEA, FBI, CIA may be better for some people because you at times have a flexible schedule where you aren't totally neglecting your family (tommorrow is not promised to us, so its best to make the best of your time and life). But I still think the DSS is interesting based on the job description and etc. http://www.state.gov/m/ds/ :)

But do your friends think the job is pretty dangerous, if I can re-call I know about two DSS agents died in iraq and it may be more

[PPDMO373]

But do your friends think the job is pretty dangerous, if I can re-call I know about two DSS agents died in iraq and it may be more

Yeah...it's pretty dangerous....as you will travel to the Middle East, Africa, Asia, etc.....on behalf of the US Gov.....looking for Terrorist, folks trying to enter the country illegally on bad passports, protecting foreign and US diplomats, etc.....

They have had (4) KIA in the line of duty. (2) on Pan Am Flight 103 and (2) in Iraq since this stuff has started.....


http://www.odmp.org/agency.php?agencyid=3957

[zxcvbnm]

.............

[PPDMO373]

I'm interested to know the backgrounds of some people who get into the DSS. I'd like to know what kind of things they look for, prior LE or maybe more internationally based stuff such as Peace Corps...

The two that I am good friends with that work for DSS have military/college/and local LE experience before they got on.

One was enlisted infantry, college grad at a pretty good school in the Midwest, worked as a LEO at a very major University PD for a while, then got hired on....

The other one went to college first out here in DC area, graduated and was a Supply/Logistics Officer for 4 years, got out after his time was up as an O, did 3 years local LE out here in DC, then got hired on.....

[zxcvbnm]

The two that I am good friends with that work for DSS have military/college/and local LE experience before they got on.

One was enlisted infantry, college grad at a pretty good school in the Midwest, worked as a LEO at a very major University PD for a while, then got hired on....

The other one went to college first out here in DC area, graduated and was a Supply/Logistics Officer for 4 years, got out after his time was up as an O, did 3 years local LE out here in DC, then got hired on.....


Appreciate that.
It seems like a job where more people get hired on towards their late twenties rather than early twenties correct?

[PPDMO373]

Appreciate that.
It seems like a job where more people get hired on towards their late twenties rather than early twenties correct?

Yes...they are like USSS and they want folks with some experience....not just college and military.....they want folks that have been out there in the civilian world as well.

But...if you have skills they (or any other federal agency is looking for) you might get lucky and get hired on earlier.....

[zxcvbnm]

Yes...they are like USSS and they want folks with some experience....not just college and military.....they want folks that have been out there in the civilian world as well.

But...if you have skills they (or any other federal agency is looking for) you might get lucky and get hired on earlier.....

[PPDMO373]

Do you have any idea at how Peace Corps experience is looked at?
I know that you have to appeal to a Foreign Service Officer as well during the interview so that might be something that they enjoying seeing...

Have no clue about PC......

[HeavenSoldier]

Do you have any idea at how Peace Corps experience is looked at?
I know that you have to appeal to a Foreign Service Officer as well during the interview so that might be something that they enjoying seeing...

Hey zxcvbnm, look at this http://www.careers.state.gov/print/specialist/opportunities/secagent.html
it's the old job announcement. It should help. Also I have no prior LE experience, just have a bachelors degree and masters degree which took away the 1 year of required experience. But look at that website, I hope you can view it . God Bless

[Gibbmusic]

I passed the text and have a BEX exam scheduled march 26 in georgia. It took about 2 months from the time I applied. I totally disagree that the DSS is a bad job, its a great job if you ask me just look at this post http://www.911jobforums.com/showthread.php?t=42372&highlight=dss+update. But some may not enjoying traveling, but thats a hobby of mine. Plus the salary and benefits is a plus. I would goto 911jobforums.com and type in DSS and their is a lot of information there. But the DSS may not be for everyone, which is why they may not like the job. But I agree if only there was a option not to travel as much. Because I'm was raised in a single parent home and try my best to stay close to my mom, as much as possible. Thanks and God Bless.

Same here Soldier, I got the call around 1900 hours on Sunday night (imagine my surprise!). I'm scheduled to do the interviews on March 29th in Georgia. I guess I better start brushing up on my foreign affairs.

Gibbmusic

[HeavenSoldier]

Thats great gibbmusic! I know we will do good, did the recruiter tell you how to prepare by staying update on current affairs (world news, etc), foregin affairs, knowing what a special agent does and etc? But that's great news, I'm sure we will do good.

[mjcek]

just a heads up..

on the Discovery Times channel tonight at 10pm EST there is a 1 hour program about DSS...

[HeavenSoldier]

Cool thanks man, I was actually thinking about posting that about the DSS documentary (critical threat). The documentary about the CIA now is interesting also.

[Ammo22]

I got a call today for an interview in NY. I must say looking over what the interview is going to be like is a little intimidating. The good thing is the lady that set up my interview told me that if you dont pass a stage in the interview they will tell you and you can go home which is better than sitting around wondering if you are going to get the job. Guess I better start brushing up on my international knowledge. Also that special on DSS will replay at 3pm EST on february 4 and also on feb 22 not sure about that time though.

[HeavenSoldier]

Hey thats great you got the call, is your date in later March also? Also, here is a great site http://www.careers.state.gov/specialist/opportunities/secagent.html , I found that will help with the BEX. God Bless

[Ammo22]

No it's March 9 in NY.

[HeavenSoldier]

My BEX was just cancelled due to unforseen circumstances. But anyways, they are pushing the BEX dates back to april for atlanta candidates. Anyone else got the e-mail which canceled BEX exams for Atlanta candidates? God Bless

[Gibbmusic]

Yeah, same here. I just hope the unforeseen circumstances doesn't involve lack of funding like the other federal agencies right now.

Gibbmusic

[Ammo22]

I received my e-mail today from DSS today for my interview in NY on 3-9-07. Hopefully there are no budget problems. I would also think that since DSS does what it does that the funding would not be cut for this agency.

[HeavenSoldier]

Yeah I doubt it would be budget issues. Gibb, did you get the call to re-schedule your BEX? I didn't get mine.

Ammo, please let us know how it goes. Did the recruiter tell you what to study like : know what a special agent does, know about government, writing, know current events of state department and world news. Also, look at this http://www.careers.state.gov/specialist/index.html , then also look at steps to becoming a foregin service specialist. Also look at www.state.gov. You probably already know this, how are you guys preparing and did I miss anything? Thanks and God Bless

[Gibbmusic]

Haven't gotten the call to reschedule yet, I'm standing by for it. As far as studying goes, I've been doing my best to catch up on the world news and events. I've been busy here studying for the master police officer test...the 5% raise will come much quicker than the fed job.

Gibbmusic

[Ammo22]

I've just been reading the paper in the morning and concetrating on world news. The state departments website is very informative and has a large amount of current world events. My biggest concern is this two-page Auto Biography and the essay that is given at the interview.

[HeavenSoldier]

I haven't even gotten my e-mail for the auto-biography requirements. She told me it should take 4-5 weeks to arrive, it's probably going to take longer since the BEX was canceled for April. But anyways I'm sure we will all do okay, this page helps a lot too, you probably already saw it http://www.state.gov/m/ds/ . God Bless

[Gibbmusic]

You would think that if were we asked to type a two page biography of anyone then our first choice would be ourselves. After all, who do we know better? I always find it hard to type autobiographies...I either feel like I'm boosting myself too much or not enough.

Plus, my creative side kicks in and I want to tell about the time I saved all those people on a subway by single-handedly taking on a suicide bomber. I kicked him out the back window just as the bomb blew up and everybody was saved (except him). Or was that something I saw on 24 a few weeks ago?

Gibbmusic

[HeavenSoldier]

lol, Yeah the autobiography is going to be about ourselves. Hmm, either you had that experience in Iraq or Aghanistan, were dreaming about CNN, or saw it on 24? lol but See below, got this from http://www.careers.state.gov/specialist/opportunities/secagent.html

"NOTE: The following four requirements apply ONLY to those applicants who successfully complete the online screening / examinations AND who scored high enough to be invited to participate in further written and oral examinations:

The Application for Employment (DS-1950) and the Employment Data Form (this form is found on pages 4 & 5 of form DS-1950).
The Minimum Qualifications Check Sheet.
A two page typed (double-spaced) narrative autobiography that discusses your background, personal interests and hobbies, your motivation for joining the Foreign Service and your motivation for becoming a Diplomatic Security Special Agent.
Official college or university transcript(s) confirming award of degree(s) or the date a degree will be awarded. An "unofficial" copy of the transcript(s) may be used pending issuance of the official documentation. Candidates who are successful in this examination process are reminded that an official transcript is required to complete their official file.Those candidates who have been invited to participate in written and oral examinations are reminded that they must bring the above-listed materials with them to the examination site (official transcripts can be mailed later). Candidates will not be permitted to participate in the examination until these materials are provided to the examiners. Submitted materials become the property of the Department of State and will not be returned."

[HeavenSoldier]

I still haven't heard anything from the DSS yet since the BEX was cancelled, Gibb have you heard anything yet? Also, whats the progress of everyone else within the DSS hiring process?

[Gibbmusic]

I'm still patiently waiting myself. Keep in mind that I got my last call on a Sunday evening, so be prepared at anytime to get the call. It's a good thing I stay busy at work, the Federal process sure can test your patience.

Gibbmusic

[HeavenSoldier]

Yeah this is a long process. I got my call also at night. But she said she'll get to us in the upcoming weeks, so everything is fine.

[Trace]

Throw me into the Atlanta crew.

I got my call to reschedule a couple of days ago. Very nice staff over in HR.

[Gibbmusic]

HeavenSoldier keep your ears open...

I got my call to reschedule last night while I was at work. As Trace said, these people have been very pleasant every time I speak with them. Maybe I'll catch one of you guys in ATL.

Gibbmusic

[HeavenSoldier]

What date did you guys choose? Are the choices for BEX late or the beginning of April? I didn't get a reschedule yet, but I agree the first time I talked with them they were very nice and professional. God Bless.

Update: I just got the call, thanks be to God. She was very nice again, did she tell you guys who would be interviewing us also? God Bless.

[Gibbmusic]

Mine is set for the 20th of April. She told me that the normal ambassador will not be doing the interviews due to back surgery, but I don't think I caught his replacement's name. Any of you guys going to be around ATL on the 19th? I'll probably come up on the evening of the 19th and stay overnight so I won't be dead tired for this ordeal.

Gibbmusic

[HeavenSoldier]

Cool, but I thought more than one person interviews you for the BEX? Mine is set for April 16, very early in the morning. Also, did they tell you the location of the BEX?

[DSS-SA]

I just found this forum and this thread this weekend. It sounds like most of you are well on your way to the BEX, or gearing up for next year. I have been a DSS Special Agent for 5 years, and I would like to offer to answer any questions about the job, lifestyle, etc. that you have.
As far as the BEX goes, I don't think I can really help you at this point because I feel that it is not anything you can "study" for in a short period of time. Your total life experience, interviewing and public speaking experience, educational background and personality will truly determine how you do. When you are asked questions, don't over-think them, or fill in details that you weren't given or don't know. Just answer the question using what you know, (or ask a question yourself to clarify that you are on the right path and buy yourself a few seconds longer to think). Use common sense and, most importantly, speak clearly, confidently, and come to a conclusion.
When Gibbs refers to "the ambassador", he probably means the panel chairperson. HS is correct-the panel should be three people: a career member of the Foreign Service (likely the ambassador), a current Special Agent, and the other could be anybody. (other Agents, please expand on this or correct me, please). I have never sat on a BEX (too junior) and I have heard that they have changed drastically since I had mine in 2001.
My intent was really not to discuss the hiring process, but to give applicants a better idea of what we really do. I know several people that probably shouldn't have taken the job when it was offered to them, but they either really had no idea what they were getting in to, or were applying to every agency out there and took the first offer they got because they were so desperate to be a "Fed". There are a few people that I really resent because I feel took the class slot of someone else who may have been one position below them on the list, but never got the offer. These agents have either left the agency after a very short time, or have the balls to complain constantly about how boring it is to Stand Post, or how unrewarding passport fraud investigations are, or best of all, try everything possible to stay domestic because they "don't want to go overseas".
Don't get me wrong, I don't enjoy every day of every assignment, nor do I fancy myself as a "better" agent, but I am 100% sure that I chose the best agency for what I like to do. So, I hope to educate applicants who are papering every agency, and those who might not understand the demands of our various roles (criminal investigations, protection, and RSO work) so that DSS gets people who really want to be Diplomatic Security Special Agents, not just a special agent. And, if in the process, I convince someone who really wants to be a DEA Agent to stick with that path, and not be tempted to chase any 1811 slot, then I have hopefully helped them towards a better career also.

[METT-T]

I just found this forum and this thread this weekend. It sounds like most of you are well on your way to the BEX, or gearing up for next year........just a special agent. And, if in the process, I convince someone who really wants to be a DEA Agent to stick with that path, and not be tempted to chase any 1811 slot, then I have hopefully helped them towards a better career also.


Hey, great of you to lend your input. Hope you don't mind answering a few q's for me.



Seems to me DS conducts quite a few different missions-CT, investigations here and abroad, PSD, overseeing physical security. How much opportunity is there to move laterally between these sub-fields within the Bureau?

What's your deployment tempo like? If you're stateside, how often can one expect to be deployed? How is where you're deploying determined? How about where you're posted for overseas duty stations? How long are the overseas postings? Don't get me wrong, the opportunity to travel is what's attracting me to DS, just like to know how it works.

Finally, what do you make? :D I understand the base pay + LEAP + locality, but do you get any other goodies like travel pay, hostile fire/danger pay, hardship pay, etc?

Thanks again for taking the time to shed a little light for us.

[Gibbmusic]

Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions DSS-SA. I have a few quick ones:

As a new agent, do you get stuck with a lot of "halls and walls" type details or do you get plenty of chances to jump right into direct protection details?

While you are stateside, how often do you get called up for protection details...or are there agents that are only specifically assigned to protection?

What's life like on the road under this agency? Motel 6 or Embassy Suites? Micky-D's or Ruth Chris?

How well does the agency keep you guy's trained up? Do you get lots of good in-service training and refreshers? How nice is the training equipment and resources?

That's it for now, I won't kill you with questions.

Thanks,
Gibbmusic

[DSS-SA]

METT-T: As far as your education, experience, etc. you are right on track. Besides making you a better candidate, experience and education are all considered when your initial salary is determined, so just starting on your Master's will add to your pay check!
As for your question about moving laterally, I think that the variety of positions that we fill over a career (hell, sometimes in a month) is a huge bonus. In a field office you will likely work on criminal investigations, protection and get a TDY assignment overseas in either a protection or RSO job all in your first year, in some cases much sooner. Assuming your first tour is domestic, in a field office, you will begin "bidding" on your next post about 1- 1 1/2 yrs into the 2 year assignment. Since you will still be untenured, your second assignment is technically "directed" (needs of the agency), but in reality you do select it (might be your 19th choice as opposed to your 1st or 2nd, but you select it. Anyway, this second tour could be almost anything depending on your flexibility, and what's available at the time. As your career progresses and you are promoted and tenured (3-5 years) you will have even more choices like being an ARSO, a Site Security Manager for a new embassy under construction, full-time assignment to the Secretary of State's Protective Detail (SD), Crim work full time on Passport/Visa Fraud, or detailed to an FBI JTTF even. The options are vast, and you could do a "new" job every 2-3 years until you retired and never repeat the same type of assignment.
What you refer to as deployment is a "tour" or "assignment" to us. Most tours, or assignments are two years long; some are 3 (1st world RSO jobs); some are 1 (Hard to Fill danger posts,or unaccompanied (no family posts). If you are at a Field Office, most TDY trips are in support of protection needs for SD or to big domestic events like the U.N. General Assembly in NY. There are TDY ARSO tours, and other TDY opportunities, but the rate of these assignments will fluctuate based on the time of year, the size of your field office, the method that your field office uses to fill the slots, and your involvement in criminal work, etc.
Besides your Base Salary (+ LEAP) you'll get Locality Pay Domestically, and a Post Differential Pay overseas. These both are designed to offset the cost of living/inflation where you are assigned. Not to be confused with COLA (an acronym for cost of Living) which you get at some post's overseas to offset the price of acquiring staple goods. There is Danger Pay in a few places (you guessed it, in the Middle East) and if you are in a War Zone the Overtime Cap is waived. You also get PerDiem when you are travelling. The lodging portion is based on your actual costs (can't pocket anything by staying in a roach motel) but the M & IE (meals and Inceidental Expenses) portion is yours to spend how you choose, so if you eat a 3.00 sandwhich and two Snickers bars, and the daily rate is $55.00; you can pocket $50 per day while you're on TDY. I am not exagerating when I say that I know guys who have done 1 year tours in Baghdad and have come back and bought a condo - with cash! I am sure that I have not exactly (correctly) described all the different parts of the salary, but suffice it to say that you will be one of the best paid federal employees. For example, I grossed $89,000 my second year in the field office when all of my OT and everything else was added. I owed alot in taxes, but it was still a great feeling.

[DSS-SA]

GIBB: I might have touched on some of your questions in my reply above to METT-T, but I'll still try and address each of your questions, separately.
Your involvement in Protection right off the bat will most strongly be dictated by the field office you go to. New York probably does the most, with Washington a very close second. As you can imagine, not to many foreign diplomats visit Houston and Chicago regularly! If you go to any field office besides DC or NY you will likely get your first taste of Protection on a TDY with the Secretary's Detail (SD) or at the annual U.N General Assembly (UNGA) in NY where basically every field office agent that is alive and breathing is sent becuase of the massive scale of protection required. Wherever you are, you might do a couple midnight shifts in the Command Post initially, but DS does not have a "probationary" period where you are coddled, mostly because it is not our philosophy, but also because most agents in the field offices are in their 1st, 2nd or 3rd years on the job, so you are put to work right away. All through BSAC you'll hear instructors and guest speakers telling you to pay attention, etc., because you'll be doing this in a month - but they aren't messing with you. The last 3 weeks of my BSAC covered Motorcades/Protection Details. Not 4 weeks later, after being in my field office for 5 days, I was driving the Follow Car in a detail. I have two very good friends who joined the Secret Service during the year before I joined DS. A year and a half later I had been on 4 trips with the Secretary of State, been the Lead Advance Agent on several Details, and a few Shift Leader positions, and they had both taken turns driving the Vietnamese First Lady on shopping outings and standing in a farm field 3 miles from the ranch in Crawford.
Domestically there are agents who are assigned to only do Protection, but neither job is entry-level. The two full-time Protection jobs are with SD and with Dignitary Protection (DP). They are actually both part of the Office of Protection. SD's mission is obvious; DP is a small group of experienced agents who are based in DC, but are used as the Agents in Charge (AIC's) for visiting foreing dignitaries nation-wide. For example, if a foreign minister came to the U.S. and he/she rated a protective detail, the AIC would be assigned through DP, but the "hump" agents would come from the field offices. If the Dignitary started in NY, then flew to DC, there would be a hand off at some point between the field office agents - but the AIC (and likely the SL from the first field office) would stay for the duration of the trip.
As for life on the road, you generally stay where ever your Principal is staying, so it won't be Motel 6 very often. I have stayed in luxury hotels all over the world. The only time you stay in a dump is if there is a huge event and all of the rooms are booked, or if you are in a Third World Country and that is all that is available.
Most of your training opportunities will come during your first domestic tour. After BSAC you will have to qualify on all of the DSS domestically deployed weapons (handgun, shotgun, and sub-machine gun) once every 4 months and there are a couple of advanced weapons/tactics courses that you may travel back to VA for, or the instructors might travel to each field office. Before your first ARSO tour you will have a 3-month RSO course, and if you go back overseas several years later there is an RSO In-Service Refresher. If you are a door-kicker I suggest you look into our Mobile Security Deployments (MSD) unit. This is our on-call tactical unit. It is a three year assignment because the first year is mostly training. When not on an on-call rotation or deployed to real world hot spots, they travel the world and do training missions for our embassy security staff, and host-country police/protection units.

Also, let me take this opportunity to offer a couple of disclaimers:
1) If I am vague about a certain question or I address it in very general terms I might be concerned about being too detailed and possibly crossing the line between giving advice and anecdotal stories to disclosing operational information.
2) More likely, I am probably not 100% of the correct answer and I don't want to give any applicants/future agents bad info. As I said in my first post yesterday, I encourage any other agents who happen to be reading this to correct me; I don't claim to be an expert on all things DS.

[METT-T]

Excellent, thanks much. If I come up with any other questions I'll be sure to bounce them off you.

[Gibbmusic]

Thanks DSS-SA, that's excellent information.

[HeavenSoldier]

Yeah thanks a lot for the information DSS, nice to see you here!

So usually the normal process is.....
1)Take the BEX. Once completed and we pass, we complete the background and medical test. Once this is done they enroll us in orientation in D.C. (3 weeks?) and training at the FLETC(which is 9-5 right?) for the following 3 weeks?.. Once this is done we bid for spots to work domestically? Then after this we work domestically for 8-5 plus major overtime, for about 2 years? Then bid for a overseas assignment, or we are forced to work somewhere based on the needs of the state department. Is that the normal process?

2)My question is, on our bid list, do we only choose major field offices to work? Are we allowed to choose resident offices like Atlanta to work domestically.

3) Are some agents once finishing training for 6 weeks forced to work overseas immediately following training?

4) Making 89+ in your second year is amazing. I have a masters degree, if hired do you know where I should fall on the FP scale or what's a usual starting salary?

5) Sorry if this is to much, you don't have to answer them all. But as a DSS agent, am I granted Diplomatic immunity and do I get to carry a weapon 24/7 off-duty anywhere?

Thanks a lot for all of your help. God Bless

[Ammo22]

How hard is it to start or have a family? I am guessing it is not easy obviously but any first hand info or examples would be nice.

[ignignokt373]

How hard is it to start or have a family? I am guessing it is not easy obviously but any first hand info or examples would be nice.

I posted this earlier in the thread.

One of my buddies that I was in the Military with works for DSS out of one of their domestic offices.

He liked it at first, but now since he has a new wife (less than a year) he's looking for something else as he's never home.

In the 5 years that he has worked for DSS, he's been all over the world doing missions. Even now that he's working in a domestic office, he gets pulled to do other things and will be gone from a couple of days to a couple of weeks.

Food for thought if you are wanting to start a family and live the life.

[DSS-SA]

HS:
You're in the ballpark, but your not making solid contact...Your biggest error is that you are assuming that at any point in this career you will have set work hours. If you want a consistent schedule, this is not the job for you! You'll learn this early on in training. One night you'll have a late training exercise, then have to be on the range at 0600 the next morning, and you'll stay there for 14 hours to do a night shoot. Then back in the classroom the next day for 10 hours of lectures, powerpoints, and practical exercises. In a Field Office, you might drive yourself to work at the same time in the mornig to beat traffic, but you will work late if you are working a Crim case, making an arrest, etc - this is why we get LEAP. You cannot predict your schedule. Just when you think you'll have some down time for a couple of weeks to try and take a chunk out of your Crim Caseload, your supervisor will call you in to their office and put you on a midnight Command Post shift for two weeks.

DSS BSAC is the longest training of any Federal Law Enforcement Agency (at least it was a few years ago). The entire course (including the FLETC time) is right around 7 months. If I remember correctly FLETC was 6 or 7 weeks, and when I went, it was 6 days per week. The 3 week orientation is a Foreign Service orientation (Not specifically DS). You'll be in a class of a couple of hundred new State Dept hires from many different fields, along with your DS BSAC class - usually 24 people).

As an entry level agent you really don't bid. When I was in training we all knew our assignments before we reported on the first day. When my class date was confirmed, I had to fax a list ranking the Field Offices from top to bottom. It is very much a wish list, because there was no rhyme or reason to how my class was assigned; a guy who lived in L.A was assigned to DC, and a guy who lived in NY was assigned to LA, and another guy who lived in DC went to NY! And some people went straight to HQ positions, or had the chance to take an unfilled position overseas) On your wish list, you cannot select the smaller Resident Offices, but some agents are assigned to them. I think DS tries to avoid this because of the lack of exposure an agent gets in those offices -they traditionally are focused on PPT fraud investigations, and the agents don't get many TDY or Protection opportunuites because the smaller offices are more dependent on each person. Some are only 2-3 agents, total. You first assignment really is a "needs of the service" issue, but a few people in my class were able to change their assignment, but they were forced to trade down to something that was less desireable (harder to fill) to get out of wherever they were supposed to go and didn't want to, for whatever reason.
Some agents in the past did go overseas immediately out of BSAC, but right now there is such competetion in the bidding process that I cannot see this happening. If for some reason, an ARSO job is offered to you while you are in BSAC, I HIGHLY discourage you from taking it. Even if you go to a HQ job in DC where you don't get the Field Office Experience, you still have a chance to learn how DS and the State Department works. The most awkward agents I have ever seen arethose who have been in 2-4 years and arrived at the Field Office after an overseas tour and were trying to "remember" criminal investigations and protection from their BSAC days.
As far as entry level pay, you are restricted by law from coming in higher than the highest FP-06 step (which actually get paid more than almost half of the 05 steps). Your first two promotions come automatically (from 06 to 05 and 05-to 04), then your next step would be,getting Tenured (You will often hear people refer to agents as euther Tenured 4's or Untenured 4's). Tenure basically means that you are a "career" employee. After tenure, promotions are competetive for the rest of your career. Also, you won't get LEAP until your sworn in, but you will get DC locality pay during training (unless you get hired from the DC Metro area and you already live there) (Here's the current pay scale: http://www.afsa.org/2007pay.cfm)

As a DS agent, you can carry your weapon anywhere in the U.S. (just as any other 1811 can) but there are clear federal statutes and Department policies that govern off-duty carry and use of issued weapons that you will be very educated on by the time you finish training. We all know some hotshot who got jammed up for carrying (or using) his weapon off duty, so be real careful that your ego doesn't tell you to strap it on for a night on the town. You might stop a robbery or save someone's life, but if you have a drop of alcohol in your system, or God Forbid, you shoot someone, everyone (including your own agency) will scrutinize every breath you took leading up to the incident to make sure that you didn't break any laws or violate anyone's rights. Overseas, the priviledge to carry a weapon is up to the host country. "Diplomatic Immunity" has no application whatsoever in regards to an agent carrying or using a weapon. It is an international law that was part of the Vienna Convention that was designed to provde a level of comfort to diplomats to allow them to do their jobs. You can only have Diplomatic Immunity conveyed on you if you are assigned to an Embassy and given a diplomatic title. Thus on TDY you have no immunity from prosecution or detention. Diplomatic Immunity is very misunderstood, and the term is often misused and misquoted (please Google both the Vienna Convention and Diplomatic Immunity to read more). A good portion of Americans working at Embassies have no, or very limited immunity because their position doesn't rate it. I have never heard of an ARSO or an RSO that does not have a Diplomatic Title (usually Attache), so we are protected, but immunity has been waived before. Also, it is important to remember that Embassies and Consulates are considered inviolable, thus US Marines and anyone else inside the compound can carry weapons with the Ambassador's or Counsel General's permission.

[DSS-SA]

On Families:
The worst situations that I have seen are Agents who joined DS as a mid-life careerchange and they were already married and/or had kids. The extreme change is a true hardship, and it turns their families' lives upside down.
The best situations are agents with families who had jobs that required travel and/or were in the military and are used to moving every few years. The transition for the spouse is not as difficult.
It is impossible to predict what you'll want down the road, but the best advice that I can give is that this job requires a very strong relationship with communication. Any little cracks in your foundation will grow with the added stress of odd hours and periods of separation, not to mention a few years down the road when your family is living in a fioreign country where they don't speak the language and you go off to the embassy every day leaving them to try and find something or someone familiar. My wife and I were dating when I joined DS, and to her credit, she knew what she was getting into, and she decided that she would drop her career to accompany me. We were married after I had been at the field office for less than a year, and now we have a newborn and we're in a third world country and we're both still happy with our lives. Yes, we miss the US, and our families, but we are experiencing places and cultures that other people actually work their entire lives so that they can save enough money to travel when they retire! I have no idea how I'll feel in another 5 years, but for now we are both still on-board with this as a career. I urge all applicants who are already married or have kids to think this over, discuss it with your spouse and to paint a worse picture than it actually is! Then you both will only be pleasantly surprised by the reality, and not dissappointed. Many wives think of white sandy beaches on tropical islands or shopping in Paris when you first start talking about being a "diplomat" overseas. You need to stop those thoughts immediately and have them picture Harare, Zimbabwe or Karachi, Pakistan. If they don't say "no f'ing way" right there and then, then you have a chance to actually get to those beaches or Paris a few years later after you earn some seniority!
And on the other side of the coin, I know a lot of single guys who are living the life! They make a great salary, and they are travelling the world without a care (but with companionship whenever they want it!)
The best source for information about the challenges of living overseas, and relocating your family frequently is the Department of State's Family Liaison Office (FLO). Here is their public Website: http://www.state.gov/m/dghr/flo/

[Gibbmusic]

DSS-SA, you have shed a lot of light of this career and I appreciate your responses. The more I hear about the job, the more interested and excited I become about going through this hiring process. After 6 years in local law enforcement, I'm starting to get the feeling that there's more for me to do and I'd really like to travel more. Anyway, three more quick questions for you if you have the time to answer...

#1) What kind of shape should I be in going into the BSAC training? I'm not saying I'm going in as a slob...but in other words will I wash out of training if I'm not in the best shape of my life?

#2) On the same token, what kind of physical testing can I expect in the hiring process? Should I be working on general fitness and strength or are they cardio-oriented like some other agencies?

#3) I'm assuming that the hiring process is similar to most other fed agencies in that I can expect a year minimum of the process. Is DSS's hiring process completely internal or do they use a private company to conduct parts of the process? The reason I ask is because I recently went through the Air Marshals hiring process for quite a while before I dropped out because I didn't feel that I would enjoy that job as much as I initially thought. The Air Marshals use a company called Avue for their hiring process, which is HORRIBLE.

Thanks again,
Gibbmusic

[METT-T]

DSS-SA, you have shed a lot of light of this career and I appreciate your responses. The more I hear about the job, the more interested and excited I become about going through this hiring process. After 6 years in local law enforcement, I'm starting to get the feeling that there's more for me to do and I'd really like to travel more. Anyway, three more quick questions for you if you have the time to answer...

#1) What kind of shape should I be in going into the BSAC training? I'm not saying I'm going in as a slob...but in other words will I wash out of training if I'm not in the best shape of my life?

#2) On the same token, what kind of physical testing can I expect in the hiring process? Should I be working on general fitness and strength or are they cardio-oriented like some other agencies?


Here's my version of that question: I can't see my TOES (edited for posterity) when I look down. Is that a concern? :D

Nah, just kidding, ain't quite that bad, and I'll be in a hell of a lot better shape come this time next year. Still like to hear the response tho.

[DSS-SA]

Okay - for physical fitness, here's the scoop: You'll take the DS PT test one of the first days that you are in training. When I went through, this test was a called a "pre-test" in that it technically was not For Record, but if you pass it, you don't have to pass it the last week before graduation 6.5 months later. So, if after over 6 months of training you are carrying a nagging injury and/or you are just whipped in general, here is one less thing you have to prepare for. It was much like the tests you would take in the military in that it was pretty tough to "ace" it, by maxing out the categories, but the standards to pass minimally were not that dificult. (I am speaking in the past tense because I know that they have tweaked the test in the last 5 years, so I do not know the specifics of the current test)
A relevant joke for all of you who think the only way to "pass" a PT test is by maxing out: Question: What do you call the guy who graduated last in his class in Medical school? Answer: "Doctor"! ;)
Anyone who is in half-decent shape and has no physical ailments will pass. There is also a PT program and test as a graduation criteria of the FLETC portion of the training. This test is more difficult and has more events, but it is still not extremely difficult. FLETC will test you when you arrive, at least once near the middle of your training, and then at the end. The good thing about this is that FLETC has mandatory PT sessions at least 3 times a week, some times twice a day, so this is a great time to get into better shape and you can really see your progress across the three tests.
DS will not let you graduate if you do not pass any of the core subjects/mandatory exams and the PT is one of them. FLETC is more strict about meeting their graduation criteria as it is laid out in the cirriculam than DS is, so don't screw up down there, or you might be in a pickle. FLETC is run by Treasury/DHS and DS is just one of dozens of agencies who utilize their Criminal Investigator Training Program (CITP) to meet the federal requirements for swearing agents in as 1811's.
This being said, it is very, very difficult to get dropped (i.e fired) during training by DS for academic reasons, as long as your issue is not an ethical one (cheating) or a safety one (firearms). It was our conclusion (and it might even have been verbalized by our class coordinator or another instructor) that DS considers the hiring process their screening and vetting, so once you actually report for training, they are committed to you completing the training, even if you need to be re-tested or recycled back into a different class to repeat an entire block of instruction (this will happen if you are physically injured as well). FLETC is considered a go/no go course, so you can't repeat just one block of instruction to graduate. I have heard of agents who had to start FLETC again from Day One becuase of one failed exam (not specifically the PT test, but I imagine they treat the physical fitness testing requirement the same as they do the academic and practical ones)
My advice is if you have the time, and the will power, arrive at training in the best shape you can be in. You will be more confident around your classmates and the instructors on the very first day and you won't be extremely sore after the PT test, or risk an injury that will derail your training before it ever starts. As I said, FLETC is pretty physicall with the PT sessions and the Defensive Tactics. So if you arrive in shape, stay in shape, and even get in better shape you will be more mentally tough (and confident) and you won't risk missing a mandatory lecture or training exercise because you are in the clinic!
As a side note: I saw trainees struggle during firearms training because they were sore/fatigued from PT and Defensive Tactics classes. If you can't get into a proper firing position, or acquire a sight picture because your muscles are quivering you will cause yourself alot of undue stress and after-hours remedial training. The one place that you do not want to stand out (for negative reasons) is on the range!
Here is the "official" description of the FLETC CITP: http://www.fletc.gov/training/training-management/training-management-division/center-basic-programs-branch/criminal-investigator-training-program-citp

[DSS-SA]

Gibb:
From the day you took the online assessment to the day you report for training at least a year will pass, likely at least 18 months. DSS's hiring process can take a year or longer depending on the BEX scheduling, Security Clearance, Medical Clearance and schedule of BSAC courses. Some things are out of your control, but if you have all the information ready in advance for your Security Clearance investigation, and if you don't have any medical issues, you might get processed quicker and get into an earlier class. As far as I know DS does not use any outside companies during the process, with the possible exception that some of the background investigators work for the Department of State as contractors; but most of these are former federal agents so they shouldn't be anywhere close to HORRIBLE...

[Gibbmusic]

DSS-SA, you have been a tremendous help with getting me pumped up for this process. With the little I knew going into the online assessment, the job sounded interesting but I didn't have a lot of details. Thanks to your excellent posts on this board, I feel like I understand the job a lot better and I'm more psyched than ever about it.

That being said, I have another question(s) for you. If you ever get sick of answering these questions and we don't hear back from you, I'll understand ;) .

I watched the short documentary on Discovery Times, but it seemed to concentrate on the protection aspect of the job. I'm still somewhat foggy about what a typical DSS Special Agent does on a regular basis. What would a day in the life of a RSO or an ARSO be like? How about an agent assigned to a domestic post working investigations, what kind of workload and investigative skills are primarily used? For example is it mostly computer and phone work or do you guys spend a lot of time in the field?

Thanks again,
Gibbmusic

[DSS-SA]

Gibbmusic:
It is very hard to describe a "typical" day, because there aren't many.

Your day as an RSO or ARSO will depend on where you are posted, and the size/prominence of your Post. For example, the RSO in Barbados is likely not working on the same issues at the same level as the RSO in Moscow! Barbados is likely a one agent shop, whereas Moscow likely has an RSO, Deputy RSO and 4-5 ARSOs. RSO work (RSOs and ARSOs) is more like that of a corporate security manager for the embassy and and a security advisor for the Ambassador. You will craft and enforce security policy (protection of life, information and property) and you will also be the liaison with the host-nation law enforcement agencies. You will conduct background investigations for updating Clearances of Dept of State employees, and new local hires. Depending where you are, you might assist the Consular Officer with visa fraud investigations, or perhaps you will assist another U.S. agency who is not present in, or cannot travel to your country. You will plan the security for special events and high-level visitors, and supervise the Marine Security Guards and/or the local guards.
Domestically, as an investigator you will use whatever is at your disposal and/or rely on your strengths. Some agents spend several hours/days researching a case through databases, internet sites, ruse phone calls, etc. in the office before even thinking about going out and knocking on the door of the last known address, but others were out driving around every day to track down leads and conduct interviews. I am not saying one is better than the other; everyone develops their own style and decides what works for them. I was a better researcher and analyst: by the time I knocked on a door, I knew my suspect's true identity and I was prepared to make an arrest. While others, especially former cops, liked to hit the streets and use their interviewing skills to track down suspects.

[koukariki]

Dear DSS,

Actually I would like to thank you on behalf of everyone cause truly you have been very helpful with your rich replies on this thread.

I succesfully passed the online assesment and I am scheduled to have an interview in NY on March 12. They mentioned it will be a three hour process. Unfortunately the recruiter did not provided us with enough material to be prepared, basically preparation is non existent.

Is the regular one on one interview? any group activity? as for the writing assignment what does it usually contain, a topic on foreign affairs? If I pass all the stages on the interview assesment we progress to Background Investigation?

Thank you so much for the great help to all of us!

koukariki

[HeavenSoldier]

I just received my e-mail with requirements for autobiography and etc. Anyone received theirs yet?

koukariki, check this site http://www.careers.state.gov/specialist/join/index.html . Then look at oral assessment etc. God Bless.

[DSS-SA]

If you read back through the entire thread you will see many comments about "studying" for the panel interview. It is not designed in a way that someone can prepare for it on short notice. They want to test your true knowledge, life experience, poise under pressure, decision-making skills, etc., not your cramming or memorization skills. The only thing you can do in the next few days is read newspapers, watch the news, and maybe review some American History/Civics/Government material that you likely learned in high school.
You will not have any group activities with other applicants, but your interview (should you make it to this stage) will be you, and a three person panel. Good luck!

[koukariki]

Dear DSS and Heaven Soldier,

Thank you so much for the valuable information and I am looking forward for this interview. Your help is vitally needed!!

Good Luck to everyone!

[koukariki]

Dear DSS,

I understand you have been asked many questions regarding the process and we all appreciate that. However, I also have a small question, maybe another fellow from the board can answer this as well.

The writting part of the interview assesment, are the subject matters on international affairs?

Thanks

[george4]

the topics are very random and defintely get you to think fast and on your feet. The topics are not allowed to be discussed outside of the BEX. Good luck.

[DSS-SA]

koukariki:
To keep the process competitive and ethical, I cannot give you specifics about the writing assessment topics (they are likely so different than when I went through, I would likely lead you astray anyway!). What I will tell you is that structure, grammar, and punctuation are likely more important than your actual topic. What I tell people is that if you want to write about the fact that you believe in flying pink elephants, then you better introduce the topic, discuss it, then come to a conclusion. This is like a 7th grade essay! (INTRO, BODY, CONCLUSION) The most important advice I have is to Make Sure That You Finish In The Allotted Time! An undeveloped or incomplete essay will be the end for you. I suggest trying to finish 5-10 minutes early so that you can proofread your essay several times, and have time to make small edits or to make corrections. If your piece is well-written and readable then you have succeeded. If I remember correctly, I wrote a "rough draft" first, then re-organized it, and re-wrote it so it had a good flow, was easy to read, and was puncuated correctly. Remember it is called a Writing Assessment, not an Opinion Assessment or Knowledge Assessment - does this make sense? Your exploration of a topic will come easier if you have some knowledge of, or experience with the selected topic, but if you write well, you will successfully accomplish the task. As I said in previous posts, you cannot "study" or cram for the BEX, it is designed to test the full gamut of your education and experiences.

[savage4presiden]

I am well away from testing for the DSS, but the career appeals to me. I have read this thread and have only one question at this point. Is type 1 diabetes an automatic medical disqualification?

[DSS-SA]

I don't believe that diabetes would be an automatic disqualification, but you would likely not receive a worldwide (class 1) medical clearance which means your choice of overseas posts would be limited. I am not familiar with the treatment or symptoms of diabetes, so please don't hold me to this. If you are prone to seizures, I can't see you being allowed to drive a GOV or carry a weapon, (or work long hours without meals, etc) but someone in DS recruitment might be able to answer your question or point you in the right direction. Unfortunately, you would probably have to get through the process and all the way to the point that you are trying to get your medical clearance before you will get a definitive answer, if type 1 diabetes is not an automatic, unwaiverable condition.

[Ammo22]

Well I am done with the process until next year if I chose to apply again. For all those left in the process I would advise that you read what is posted in this thread from begining to end. I dont know what else I can say though. I just was not what they were looking for. Good luck to everyone else.

[Jaymazik]

...............

[koukariki]

Hello,

First of all congratulations for your COE, I am sure you are happy and you should celebrate it!,

As you've noticed most of us here we are waiting for the Interview assesment and we are getting stressed about it as well!

During your interview, the turn over rate was high? Did a lot of people fail? cause the recruiter mentioned me that once someones fails a step they inform him

[Jaymazik]

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[koukariki]

Anyone passed from this thread during BEX, unfortunately I did not pass and Im still wondering why......

[DSS-SA]

Jaymazik:
Sorry for the delay - I'm not exactly surfing the net all day. I get back here when I can. Let me try and answer your questions:
GOV's: Most Field Office Agents have take home cars. If there is a shortage, get in trouble, or if you have a SAIC who wants to be a hard @ss, you may have to drive yourself to work. In my FO, we all had cars, and you tended to get "upgraded" as you became more senior, but this is not a given. Alot of the HQ jobs in DC have a motor pool that you can use during the day, but the agents do not have take home cars. Whatever you do, do not use your emergency equipment because you are impatient in traffic, and do not drive home if you have had a sip of alcohol. There is a "zero tolerance" policy for misuse of a GOV.
Locality pay is a domestic allowance and COLA and Post Differential are overseas allowances. The best way to think about it is that your 'base' salary is really only about 85% of what they expect to pay you (rough estimate, but this is assuming that the Locality pay for all areas of the US without a specific rate has a default rate of about 15%). So, In your example, the Locality pay in SF is 30%, but 15% of that is meant to bring you up to your true salary, the other 15% is due th the higher costs in that locality. Does this make sense? When you go overseas you will get COLA and/or Post Differential (and free housing). The argument in the FS is that the COLA and Post Diff are not "extra" because FSO's leaving DC lose their locality pay.
My advice is that if you don't want to see a decrease in your paycheck when you leave the US, then bid on high Post Diff Posts! Take a look at this web site to see the various allowances: http://www.state.gov/rates/by_allowance_type.asp
Most developing countries are between 15-25% Post Diff, plus a COLA, so the fluctuation is not really going to be that great in most instances. Especially with free housing factored in!
DS Special Agents will always have a leg up on the rest of the FS because we get LEAP pay. The bitter ones will remind you of it, but make no mistake you will likely earn every penny of it. Be really carefull reading message boards where FSO's post. DS is so different from the rest of the FS: you will likely get confused, or sucked into the argument between FSO's and Specialists! I think the core of the FS argument about losing Locality pay when going overseas is based on the theory that I presented above: if your true salary was computed as your base + locality, and the locality goes away, you are not getting your entire salary.
Rental Car: you will not get a rental car at any time in your career for training unless that is how you choose to spend your per diem. In Dunn Loring you will have three choices; drive your POV; live at one of the 3-4 hotels very near the training center, or live in Arlington or DC and use the State Shuttle Buses and the DC Metro. Many students without cars choose to stay near Dunn Loring in the Tysons Corner area. It isn't as fun in your off hours (unless you love shopping malls and chain restaurants), but you save 15-45 minutes of commuting each way.
For your overseas housing, if you have joint or full custody I believe they are likely bound by the regs to have your assigned housing capable of accomodating your whole I am not sure what the regs are, but if you are in Africa, and your kids are living with your ex and going to school in the US and plan to see you once a year, I am not sure if they are required to take them into account during the housing assignment process. I think it comes down to how they are listed on your Orders (as dependents)? I might have to look this one up on Monday because I am talking both sides of the argument.

[DSS-SA]

koukariki:
Not to hit you while you're down, but I think that I and the others who have passed the BEX, have been very open about what we think will make you successful. Please read back through the entire thread, and see if anything catches your eye. It is always possible that you had a bad day, or the panel had a bad day, but I think that the "total package" of education, life experience, work experience, character, problem-solving skills and your ability to communicate ideas in writing and while speaking are the core areas. if you plan on applying again next year I think you should reflect on how you feel you stack up in these areas to isolate where you might want to improve. Do you notice that I didn't mention anything about shooting skills, investigative skills, hand to hand skills, pursuit driving, etc.? In this job, all these things are gravy (if you already have them), that they can teach you from scratch, if necessary. The other things take a life time, or at least several years to acquire and become proficient in. I think I have mentioned before that each class of 24 agents is usually made up of about 15-18 former military and or law enforcement (with an average of 4-8 years of experience), plus 3-5 people making a complete career change (I know a scientist, several attorneys, a school teacher, and a stock broker). And also 1-3 who started training just out of college, but they are the exception.

[HeavenSoldier]

Hey thanks a lot DSS-SA your a lot of help.

Some other resources I found for DSS candidates and potential ones.
http://www.answers.com/topic/diplomatic-security-service or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_Security_Service , so you can print it better. Go there, read the information, then also goto the references section and buy some of the videos. Check out the external links section too.

I would also goto http://www.state.gov/ and stay up to date with the state departments current events via videos etc, or atleast print out their mission here http://www.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/dosstrat/2004/23503.htm and become familiar with the department. I would also check out the book "Inside a U.S. Embassy" so you can answer any questions (if asked, I haven't taken the BEX yet) about the U.S. Embassy, ambassador, etc. God Bless

[koukariki]

Hi DSS,

I appreciate your help and your information. However, I have at least 3 years of employment and a graduate degree and multilingual, with a degree in criminal justice etc.....,

During the first interview, the person interviewing were very cold and mechanic and at many points they had to interrupt me telling that I answered the question, it was really shocking to get this treatment.

The whole process looked very secretive and the rejection without any explanation as to why, I do not know why they are so secretive and rude with potential applicants. It was my worst experience from an agency and I am very dissappointed. NOT because I did not get selected but their attitude in general.

It seems that they were tired, i dont know what happened. I am sure they have to revise the way they select candidates and do a restructuring of their organization...................................... .........,

it was rather impressive. NOT to mention the fact that during the interview they were treating the potential candidates as criminals themselves.

I dont know what else to say....,

any advice on this it would be helpful,

thanks,

[DSS-SA]

koukariki:
I don't know what to tell you. It sounds like you, or the panel, or both had a bad day. I am not positive what the policy is on notifying candidates why they aren't selected is, but I am pretty sure that if it was something tangible that they thought you could improve on they would have let you know. I wasn't there, so I am not going to theorize on how you were treated or what your impression of the process was. You cite your "qualifications" in the first sentence of your post, but I know that I made it clear in my postings that your current employment, your degree(s), etc. are all important factors, and make up many of the minimum standards for employment, but the intangables are just as important (or maybe more important). The BEX panel is a subjective, personal process - you wouldn't have been scheduled for the BEX if your academic qualifications or other requirements weren't adequate. Remember, they are looking for confident, well-spoken, well-rounded, articulate future "Diplomats" who will also make good Special Agents. This agency is not made up of a bunch of Soldier of Fortune, Door-kicking, Knuckle-Draggers (not saying that you are any of these things). At an Embassy overseas, or on a protective detail you will be in a high-profile environment and will be viewed as a representative of the U.S Government. As I said, I have no idea what your strengths or weaknesses are, I'm just throwing all of this out there for general consumption.
Again, I think that your fellow applicants, myself, and other posters here have done a pretty good job of outlining the basics. If you are interested in trying again next year or in subsequent years, I encourage you to continue gaining work experience which shows a progession of responsibility, keep up with current events and practice communicating succinctly and effectively (written and verbal). I apologize if you feel you were treated rudely or unfairly, but I will also add that BEX panel members are specifically selected, and maybe some of your perceptions are clouded by your dissappointment. Good luck!

[koukariki]

Dear DSS,

Thank you very much for your post and again for your helpful information. I think you have been a great asset for all potential candidates with the DSS in this forum in providing us well rounded information. Thank You!!!,

You might be right that my judgement might be clouded by my disappointment. However, I am also in the process with other federal jobs and being able to see other process placed me in a position to comment. But again I respect the decision of BEX, they probably saw something that they did not like. It is just that I will have appreciated some feedback in reference to areas where I can improve my self etc......,

thank you so much DSS!!!!!

[Jaymazik]

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[Jaymazik]

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[DSS-SA]

Jaymazik:
Overseas you may or may not have use of a GOV (either take home, or with a driver). It really depends on whether your post has a vehicle that was purchased with DS funding, or a vehicle purchased with general funds, but it is dedicated to the RSO section. For the most part, you should plan on shipping a POV or acquiring one at post. I only know of a few unique places where an RSO has a take-home vehicle, and I don't know of any ARSO's who do.

I took about a $20k pay cut to join DS, but as soon as I graduated and started getting LEAP and locality pay, I made most of it up. It is worth it, because 5 years later my base salary is significantly higher.

Is your FO acquaintance taking part in an ongoing rotation on a protective detail. My experience was that domestic protection was mostly focused in NY, DC and temping on the Secretary's Detail in 30-60 day increments. I didn't travel much domestically for 2-3 day stints?

As for "Lessons Learned" about training: 1) Try and drive your POV to VA if at all possible. You will really appreciate having a car in VA and at FLETC, and it will open up so many more lodging options and down-time activities if you have wheels. 2) In the beginning, everyone will be excited (rightfully so) but try to avoid the ****-talking, credential comparing, alpha-male BS. You will quickly identify with some of your classmates who have similar backgrounds and interested as you; but spare the rest of your classmates from hearing it all. Some of them might be straight out of college and/or transitioning from a non-military or law enforcement career, and will be nervous or easily intimidated. 3) Always remember that every instructor, guest speaker, or WFO agent that you encounter during training is going to be your future colleague, or perhaps your supervisor. DS is still relatively "small" when it comes to having a reputation that proceeds you - you don't want a negative one coming out of training. 4) Compete against yourself, not your classmates. If you want to be the honor grad, then strive to be as flawless as possible, but if you identify a classmate that needs help in a certain area, discreetly offer to help - you aren't graded on a curve against anyone else, so why not help? As I said before, we all come from different backgrounds, with different strengths. Unless, there is a "problem child" in your class that doesn't deserve help, you should all try and improve each other. 5) DO IT THE DS WAY! Likely the most important: Keep all your past experiences and techniques in your tool box - DO NOT CONTRADICT A DS OR FLETC INSTRUCTOR. Every class has their own self-declared martial arts guru, or weapons expert that wants to try and show everyone how smart he/she is, by offering a different or "better" technique during a class. This is taken as a personal insult to the instructor, and is seen as showing off. The techniques that are taught are what DS and FLETC have approved, and are meant to be the most easily learned and taught. The instructors themselves might have techniques that they prefer, but they can't go against doctrine and teach their preferences.
6) Start saving some money now, or make sure you have a credit card with available credit. You will get reimbursed for your travel, lodging and related expenses, but it takes time. You will likely have to pay for your first 30-60 days of lodging out of pocket, then wait for the voucher to be processed to get the reimbursement. This cycle will likely repeat itself throughout training, but the time from day one until your first reimbursement might stretch you pretty thin!

When DS starts filling class dates it really is a mess for some people. Some of my classmates had several weeks notice, and some were able to "push back" their start date into another class in order to give proper notice to their current employer, sell their house, etc. The other side of the coin is that I had a couple classmates who had less than a week notice and they had to totally relocate! If you are already conditionally hired and you are just waiting on MED or Security clearances, I encourage you to contact your POC in DS HR and try and get an idea of your potential class dates. They may not tell you where they have you penciled in (they might not know themselves) but they may be able to tell you the scheduled start dates of the various classes that they are in the process of filling, so at least you'll have a ballpark idea. I was notified about three weeks before my class date. I gave my two weeks notice that day, requested my unused vacation days be a part of that two weeks and had my last official day at work 3 days later. I spent the next two weeks having fun and frantically trying to get in better shape!

An important thing to add here is that you will not be authorized any time off during training. You will get any Federal Holidays that occur, and maybe they will give you the Friday off after Thanksgiving, but don't plan any trips, weddings, long weekends with your girlfriend, etc. They will approve absence for deaths in the family, or other serious issues, but if too many days are missed, or if you miss something that cannot be made up, you will be recycled back into a class behind you. We were often cut loose a half day early before a holiday weekend, but don't book a flight two months in advance for a friday afternoon at 2PM when you are scheduled to train until 5PM without getting the permission of your Class Coordinator.
I'm rambling now, I'm going to cut this post off while it still is partially understandable...

[Jaymazik]

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[HeavenSoldier]

Hey jaymazik go to www.talesmag.com if you haven't been there, once there look around, or go to real posts reports. Once there select a country, city etc., and there you will see country, city reviews from foreign service officials who were posted overseas. Something the reviewers were asked if pets were allowed overseas. Check it out. God Bless

[Jaymazik]

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[DSS-SA]

The "Real Post Reports" are very useful, and contain alot more useful information than the "official" ones that the Department posts.
As I have said before though, be careful about ingesting too much of what you read on FS Forums. If you go on the Talesmag message boards you will see a ton of complainers and witness some all out verbal wars between FSO's and Specialists. You can probably find some bitter anti-DS postings as well (some people just don't like it when they get a Security Violation or their Clearance is revoked!)
Anyway, as I've said before, The Diplomatic Security Service in general, and DS Special Agents particularly, are often misunderstood and treated like the proverbial "red-headed step-child". People who consider themselves "the best of the best" don't generally accept being told what they can and cannot do by someone that is generally younger than them, and likely deemed less intelligent since they are a "specialist" in the Foreign Service. That being said, I do not want to be perceived as holding any grudges or promoting stereotypes aganst FSO's. 99% of the FSO's that I have worked with are receptive, understanding, and treat me with respect. What I am trying to point out is that people with an axe to grind are for more likely to seek the anonymity of the internet to vent their frustrations and disparage others, and the FS is along for the ride on this one! Any potential DS agents should not be too concerned with the Post Reports, because by the time you are going overseas, they will likely have been updated a few times!

[DSS-SA]

Okay Jaymazik, next round of answers:
Retirement: (Straight from the FAM: Foreign Affairs Manual) - "The FSPS is the Foreign Service equivalent of the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS), as described in chapter 84 of Title 5, U.S.C. In general, all participants hired after December 31, 1983, participate in the FSPS. Participants currently contribute 1.3% of basic salary to the FSPS. The employing agency contributes an actuarially determined amount to reflect “normal cost” (less the employee contribution). Participants who are at least age 50 with 20 years of service receive a basic annuity of 1.7% of high three basic salary for the first 20 years of service and 1.0% of high three basic salary for service over 20 years."

Pets: I think quarantine restrictions have eased up a bit for domesticated cats and dogs in the past few years. I have a dog, and my trip overseas was not bad at all. There are State Dept resources available to assist you, and there is actually a class that you (or your spouse) can take at FSI that solely addresses this subject. Before you depart (or maybe while bidding, you should research the restrictions of your potential host country). The most strict right now are the EU countries (they have this little thing called "Mad Cow Disease" that they are dealing with). I had a four-hour layover in Europe and I had to meet all of their requirements as though my dog was "entering" the EU even though he never left the airport!

Leave upon arrival at the FO: Each FO will be different, but the biggest limitation to taking Leave immediately upon arriving (or before actually reporting for duty) is that you will have to undergo a FO Orientation. If there are 5 agents from your class going to the same FO, the FO Mgmt is not going to want to repeat the training (which could be up to two weeks long) when you come off of Leave. Once you know what FO you are going to, ask around and find out who is responsible for the New Agent Orientation Program at your FO (it is usually a Unit Supervisor or ASAC). Email them and introduce yourself, and ask about what you can expect upon arrival. If they tell you about a "mandatory" orientation, I don't suggest that you ask for time off just to get settled or to head to the beach; you might not get off on the right foot! If you have a wedding, or previously scheduled event, I am sure that they will try and work with you. They will also give you time off when the movers arrive so you can be home to receive your "stuff", and you might be able to take a little time off after your orientation...

[Jaymazik]

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[Chimborazo]

Wow, what a great thread!! I am an IT manager with a major pharmaceutical company, and am very interested in making a career change to DSS. I have no military or LE experience (although I was a criminal justice major for a while in college). I have a B.S. in Business Information Systems and have been with the same company for eight years, with increasing levels of responsibility since I arrived. I have traveled throughout the Middle East and Europe for visits since I was a child and love the new experiences. I am very familiar with handguns (used to shoot IDPA) and I'm not too bad with shotgun and carbine (although I'd get my tail kicked in a three gun match, so I need loads of improvement). I don't know if I stand a chance, but I'm sure going to try when there is another opening.

Many thanks to the contributors of this thread for all the information they have provided, and best wishes to those in the application/selection process!

[Law-man]

Good afternoon. I am interested in the DSS-SA position with DOS, however I have a few concerns. Can you elaborate on these?

1. If and when I receive a conditional offer, and when I pass the TS and Medical reviews, do I have any bargaining power over what my starting salary would be, or are attempts at bargaining considered to be counteroffers, such that I would be effectively rejecting the offer?

2. Can families accompany DSS-SA trainees to DC and GA during the training periods (approx 6-7 months)? If so, do families travel on the government's dime?

Thank you,

Fred

[Law-man]

Dear DSS-SA,

In addition to the previous questions that I posed, I was wondering whether you could elaborate on the following:

1. I just checked the state.gov website to see what the pay schedules for DSS-SA's are, however under the heading of "pay schedules" I do not know which one of the following caterogies would fit the bill. I would like to find out, so that if there is such a thing as bargaining power over the initial starting salary, I will be able to intelligently refer the HR people to the correct schedule and argue why I should be at a certain "step" under FS-6.

2007 Civil Service Pay Tables
2007 Executive Schedule
2007 FS Pay Tables
2007 Other - Consular Agents
2006 FS Basic and Locality

Thank you,

Fred :)

[waiguizi]

DSS-SA:

I've been watching these posts for about a month now, had my BX on 30 March in DC. The BX was quite an experience, fortunately I was given a conditional offer of employment. My question is how soon could I expect a class start date? Looks like you've been bombarded with questions pretty regularly and I hate to add to the pile, but not as much as I'd like to know when I could be starting class. DSS recruitment was pretty vague, they told me there was some sort of congressional funding issue for training right now.

The starting salary I was offered was at the low end of the scale, but I'm just happy to have the offer right now, if it was about the money I'd probably be looking in a different line of work. Looking forward to training and thanks for the guidance you have given thus far.

[Jaymazik]

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[Jaymazik]

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[Jaymazik]

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[JeepingLEO]

First off I want to offer my congratulations to all of those that passed their BEX and have been given a COE. I'm in the same boat with you all as well. From what I have heard this new BEX is designed to be more difficult than it already was.

I have been watching the post on her as well as a few other sites; however, after realizing that the other site required you to pay to belong to it, I decided that here would be the best to join. Especially with the pay cut that is involved with taking this job (but it worth it).

In regards to the funding issue, currently all federal agencies are operating on a 2007 Continuing Resolution funding bill. This means that most agencies have to operate at 2006 funding levels. This greatly impacts all agencies, including State because it does not allow them to follow their proposed future plans. According to another site, there will be no more classes or BSACs (Basic Special Agent Class) until next fiscal year (after October). So we all need to cross our fingers and hope that Congress and the White House will come together and actually pass a FY 2008 budget. Enough on that, don't wanna hop up on the soap box.

As I stated in my title, I actually used to be a Foreign Service IT specialist, so I can answer questions about the first 3 weeks at FSI, moving, travel orders, life overseas, general perceptions of State, living in DC, etc... Just as with any government organization, you can/will be frustrated with certain processes and rules/regulations, but after being at "other" gov't agencies I will say that State is pretty well run (others may differ with this opinion, but I stand by it).

For those of us that are in the "waiting game" lets keep in touch throughout the process. The establishment of friendships prior to BSAC will be extremely helpful.

[waiguizi]

I'm hoping that my current TS/SCI will help speed things along with the SF-86, but who knows how efficiently sharing of information is between a clearance with the military and then on the state department side. I would hope it's all streamlined, but after the 2 years it took to do my first SSBI I wouldn't rule anything out. Are any of you awaiting training currently obligated to the national guard and wondering how that's going to affect you during training? I am and found the easiest thing to do is probably switch to ING while you're in training.

[JeepingLEO]

I'm hoping that my current TS/SCI will help speed things along with the SF-86, but who knows how efficiently sharing of information is between a clearance with the military and then on the state department side. I would hope it's all streamlined, but after the 2 years it took to do my first SSBI I wouldn't rule anything out. Are any of you awaiting training currently obligated to the national guard and wondering how that's going to affect you during training? I am and found the easiest thing to do is probably switch to ING while you're in training.


I know that arleady having a TS/SCI helps, but there are several factors to consider. The ones that stick out in my mind are (1) how long it takes your current agency (one holding your TS/SCI) to send the information over to State and (2) when was your last SSBI or Perodic reveiw done. I have heard of people already having a current TS/SCI, but their agency dragged their feet and wouldn't transfer the info, so State just started a new one. So much for cooperation!

[waiguizi]

Good afternoon. I am interested in the DSS-SA position with DOS, however I have a few concerns. Can you elaborate on these?

1. If and when I receive a conditional offer, and when I pass the TS and Medical reviews, do I have any bargaining power over what my starting salary would be, or are attempts at bargaining considered to be counteroffers, such that I would be effectively rejecting the offer?

2. Can families accompany DSS-SA trainees to DC and GA during the training periods (approx 6-7 months)? If so, do families travel on the government's dime?

Thank you,

Fred

Fred,

I just recieved my informational/security/medical packet in the mail today and it looks like there isn't a problem with moving your family to training. I quote from Department of State Guidebook publication 11294

"For new employees who reside outside of the Washington D.C. metroplitan area, the government will pay for the travel of all new employees and their families from the place of appointment to Washington D.C. Your place of appointment is considered to be the locale where you were employed or in residence when the Registrar's office made your offer of employment."

In the packet is also a document stating the procedures for candidates who believe they warrant a higher salary above Step 3. One additional step is granted for a Masters in a related field (e.g. criminal justice, buisness administration, international relations), one step for Ph.D in a related field, and one step of every year of additional work experience above the minimum required, if the experience is directly related to the Special Agent position.

[Gibbmusic]

Well, I just wanted to drop a line and tell everybody thanks for the help with this process, especially DSS-SA. I took the BEX in Atlanta today and unfortunately I was "not competitive" enough. From what I understand, a lot of folks are the same boat with me this week in ATL. I made it all the way through the BEX and felt like I did well on my interview, I suppose the interviewer felt differently however.

I will reapply next year, this job sounds great to me.

Thanks,
Gibbmusic

[HeavenSoldier]

Hey Gibb, strangely the same happened to me. But I didn't even make it pass the minimum qualifications part, it seems like some of the questions on the test were the same from the online test which I forgot lol. I really don't see how I didn't pass. The other person I was with didn't pass either. But the man told me to apply again next time, I was close but not close enough. So I'll just apply again next time. God Bless.

[jmk421]

I have a missed call from 571-345-2000 at 9:36am today. They didn't leave a voicemail so I did a google search and it came up as a DSS number. I called it back and the recording said, "Welcome to AUDIX" or something, "Please dial your extension." Does this number sound familiar to anyone? I applied for the SA position and the internship back in Nov., I think. Does anyone have any idea if they are making new calls for interviews or what not?

[HeavenSoldier]

Yeah they're still making calls for interviewing, I sent you a pm jmk. God Bless

[Jaymazik]

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[Jaymazik]

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[waiguizi]

Jaymazik,

Thanks for the input, good to know about FLETC and bringing your family. Now I have a valid excuse to leave my wife at her sisters house. Just noticed you're in San Francisco, we're living in San Jose right now actually. The book, like you said, didn't seem tailored towards DS at all. Seems like they could come up with at least some sort of difinitive employment guide solely for DS hires. Oh wait this isn't the private sector it's the federal government.... Heavensoldier and Gibbmusic, better luck next time. Don't know what your backgrounds are, but if you're not military consider the national guard with an intel/language MOS as a great door opener.

[Gibbmusic]

I have 6 years of law enforcement background, no military. I know the military is a great door-opener, however I do know of one of the guys that got turned down in Atlanta who had just finished his second warzone tour. The primary interviewer (not the Special Agent) seemed to be against me from the start and I don't think it was an interview tactic...he was borderline rude during parts of it. From what I understand, nobody who tested in Atlanta this past week made it. Anyway, this gives me more time to finish my private pilot training and give DSS another shot at the next opening...I just hope funds don't get slashed next year like they have for other agencies this year (ATF).

Gibbmusic

[Chimborazo]

Wow, after reading this, I feel more and more like I have no chance at all. Sorry to hear about your results guys.

[Gibbmusic]

I would not give up based on our experiences. DSS still sounds like a great career and I plan on applying again as soon as I can. We could have had a bad interview, a bad interviewer, or just not have met the standards. This doesn't mean that you won't make it. Besides, what have you lost by trying other than the gas, time, and little bit of money to get you to the test? I guarantee that whether you make it or not, you'll come out more experienced.

Gibbmusic

[waiguizi]

I'd say good advice from Gibbmusic, I've been hearing a lot of people say they were interviewed by someone who they thought had a bad attitude from the on-set. I personally experienced the polar opposite and the individuals interviewing me were very challenging but also very professional. I think unfortunately a lot of it does boil down to personalities and your luck on what subject matter expert you draw on the day of your BEX. The chances of your success the second time around having drawn on the experience of the first go round are probably substantially higher. You already know what they're looking for now.....if you don't have it, be it a language, LE experience, a clearance, military experience, degree.....go get it and reapply. I know it's probably foolish to rely on military experience alone, but seriously consider that a job as a 98G cryptologic linguist in the guard, will get you language training in the language of your choice at DLI...the best place in the world to learn a foreign language in a compressed amount of time (not to mention living in Monterey CA at government expense is a pretty good deal), a TS/SCI clearance, and a military track record with a minimum commitment. Not to mention the GI bill right now will more than cover grad school whenever you are ready to take that on. Press on broom stick cowboys, the light is at the end of the tunnel.

[DSS-SA]

I started posting here a few months ago saying that I would try and answer your questions from my perspective as an agent with DSS. I apologize for not being responsive recently, but this job comes at you in spurts, and things fall to the wayside!
I tried to read back quickly to see what questions were pending still, and it seems like alot of them have been answered by fellow applicants. Here is my basic summary/two cents:
-families will not be on your orders to training (Dunn Loring/FLETC) UNLESS Washington is your first duty station and they will treat your move to the DC area as your Initial Move (then the onus is on you to find housing and support them in the DC area while you are in training). Otherwise, family will be on your orders (with the rest of your possessions:) ) to your first duty station.
-If you ARE NOT assigned to Washington, DC for your first tour (HQ or WFO), you will receive Per Diem upon starting training, but you will not get any locality pay until you report to your locality (Field Office) after training. You will receive LEAP once you are sworn in after training.
-I think there is a bit of room to negotiate your starting salary, but I believe it is more of an 'appeals' process after you accept the offer and are already an employee. Your best bet for an adjustment is if you received a significant promotion, significant training, or higher degree since you initially applied. They might have used your data from a2005 application in determining your salary. If this is not the case, they will probably not find a compelling reason to raise your entry salary. The bottom line is: if you are making significantly more in your current job (10-20K)then you should probably stick with it IF the cut will be a hardship for you or if money is your priority. If not, you'll take the job, and the (initial) cut, because the job is worth it! If I remember correctly I took about a 12K cut, but I made that up, and was making 5K more than that within the first year outside of training, so the short-term setback was well worth it.
-the entire USG is operating at a budget based on last year's numbers. When 2007 is actually funded it will probably be too late for DS to add classes before the end of the fiscal year, so the people with conditional offers might be on hold for a while. I have heard that DS Recruitment has been very up front with telling new-hires what class dates are available in the near future. Not to say that they will give you your date over the phone 6 months in advance, but if you are not completely done with your MED/Security clearances please don't expect to start this year ... each BSAC is only 24 students!!
-Lastly, not to sound contrite or patronizing, but the selection process is selective (and I think it has gotten tougher since I came on), but the goal is to find the right candidate that can be a Criminal Investigator, a Protection Specialist, a Security Manager, a Diplomat and a**-kicker at the appropriate time across a career. It is designed to be subjective, so this is why personalities play a roll. If all it took was a written test, then that would be the sole measure. I have repeatedly pointed out in my postings that if DSS is just one of the dozens of agencies that you are applying to then it is probably not the right one for you. If your goal is any 1811 job, then your strengths/weaknesses will be highlighted in this process. Please do some self-reflection and determine if this is the career for you! Good Luck!

[HeavenSoldier]

Wow, after reading this, I feel more and more like I have no chance at all. Sorry to hear about your results guys.

Hey, I agree with what Gibb and what wai said. Your experience may be completely different from ours. My recruiter told me to come back, so I'm going to do what he said and take the test and come back! You may have a different city from ours in which you take the test, different recruiter, different attitudes, therefore a different experience, get what I'm coming from? I still believe this is the best federal job and I never quit, I'm only 22 so I have many years:) God Bless, have faith, believe and never quit.

Hey DSS when do you think the test will open up again? Maybe October, November? Thanks and God Bless.

[Gibbmusic]

Woohoo! All I have to say is guys (and gals), do not give up hope if you were sent home being told you were not competitive enough after the BEX. I made it through all four parts of the BEX back in April and after it was all said and done, I was told I wasn't competitive enough and I mentioned before. Well today, out of nowhere, my interviewer called me back and gave me a conditional offer of employment! What a pleasant surprise...what a week...first this, and tomorrow I leave for a long-overdue 2-week west coast vacation.

I'm happy to continue in the process and I wish those who were in the same boat as I was the best of luck. I had given up hope and resigned myself to re-applying next year.

Thanks to everybody on here that gave advice about the BEX, I'm positive that I was much more prepared because of the fine folks on this board. Good luck all, I'll keep you posted.

Gibbmusic

[waiguizi]

Congrats on your pleasant suprise! Now get ready for the paper-work nightmare to ensue :) One piece of advice.....go to an organized Doctor with a staff that can keep up with the paperwork. My doctor's office wound up getting plenty worked up over all the lab work, x-rays and other seemingly bizarre requests and as a consequence things took longer to get done than they should have. I guess now it's a race to get enrolled in a class.......good luck!

[h6cayuse]

DSS is a great opportunity and I hope one makes a decision on it with as much info as possible. I actually sat down with an agent and he told me that there are many opportunities to travel and stay state side. He told me that he is only required to do one overseas tour every five years. He also told me that the five year tour can be a solo tour so his family can remain in the states. There are many options. There is also a stablization for those who have high school aged children. Don't get me wrong. It is easier to be in another service and stay in the states permenantly but they are not like DSS. I have made it through most of the FBI and DEA testing and both had the "we ar not here for you" attitude when I applied. Everything took so long and they always kept me in the dark until I received a letter for the PT test which was a week before the exam. Needless to say there was not much opportunity to train up if you weren't in the military like me. DSS has been extremely professional in the process and my HR rep has kept me up to date with everything. She has even given me estimated dates on all items like medical and background. I don't know about you but I'd rather work for someone who takes care of me like this before I am even a permanent member than for other departments who forget what it felt like to have a dream of being in such a prestigious position.

[HeavenSoldier]

Woohoo! All I have to say is guys (and gals), do not give up hope if you were sent home being told you were not competitive enough after the BEX. I made it through all four parts of the BEX back in April and after it was all said and done, I was told I wasn't competitive enough and I mentioned before. Well today, out of nowhere, my interviewer called me back and gave me a conditional offer of employment! What a pleasant surprise...what a week...first this, and tomorrow I leave for a long-overdue 2-week west coast vacation.

I'm happy to continue in the process and I wish those who were in the same boat as I was the best of luck. I had given up hope and resigned myself to re-applying next year.

Thanks to everybody on here that gave advice about the BEX, I'm positive that I was much more prepared because of the fine folks on this board. Good luck all, I'll keep you posted.

Gibbmusic

Hey Gibb congradulations! I doubt I'll get a call back since I didn't make it pass the written test, but enjoy your training and let us know how everything goes. God Bless

[DSS-SA]

For all of you pending hires, current applicants and future applicants, I wanted to let you know about a recently published change to entry-level agents first domestic tour. The length of the tour has been extended from two years to three years. Truthfully, this is not a major change, because the way the bidding and tenuring process goes, it is very rare for an agent with exactly two years experience to win an overseas assignment in the bidding process. Most agents simply continue working in their field office past two years, or make a domestic move to a HQ assignment in Washington until they get tenured and are more competitive bidders. Here is the text of Ambassador Griffin's letter in the May issue of the DS Update:

Irish author Edmund Burke once observed that “the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Earlier this month I had the opportunity to reflect on Burke’s words when I attended the Ninth Annual International Fugitives Conference in Toronto. The annual conference, organized by the Toronto Police Service Fugitive Squad and the U.S. Marshals Service, was truly a meeting of good men and women: law enforcement professionals from some 20 countries dedicated to taking action against one of the most daunting challenges facing our community today, the tracking, apprehension, and extradition of fugitives in foreign jurisdictions.

Because international fugitives frequently finance their flight from the law through further criminal activities, they pose a serious threat to public safety worldwide. Fugitive apprehension is important to fighting terrorism—not just in terms of capturing terrorist suspects, but also combating the associated criminal activities that often fund terrorism. Air travel and new forms of information technology—including the Internet—give today’s fugitives unprecedented access to locations and resources worldwide. Fortunately, as law enforcement professionals we also have unprecedented information resources and other investigative tools at our disposal. Making the best use of such resources and tools is crucial to our success in apprehending fugitives.

DS already has a well-deserved reputation for excellent investigative work. But reputations must not only be earned, they must be preserved: in this case, preserved by enhancing our skills and experience. With that in mind, DS recently extended the time period that Special Agents spend on their first domestic assignment from two years to three years. The reason for the change was to give new agents the opportunity to hone their investigative skills by working with experienced investigators in DS Field Offices. This change will help guarantee that these Special Agents go on to their future assignments with the skills and experience to investigate ever-more sophisticated and complex crimes in international settings. It will make DS even more effective in combating terrorism and other crimes worldwide—and it will help ensure that DS’s fine reputation is preserved well into the future.

It is my opinion that they just wrote into policy what was already occuring. Most new agents now spend at least three years in a domestic assignment (or multiple domestic assignments) before going overseas. Of course, there are exceptions in hard-to-fill Posts, but the reality is that as our numbers increase every year, it is impossible to create an equal number of positions overseas (even with the PRT's in Iraq and Afghanistan). I think I have said before that my field office experience was amazing, and will always be the cornerstone of my DS skills, and the friends I made there are at all levels of management will be my mentors, confidants and rabbis for the remainder of my career.

[waiguizi]

Great post DSS-SA. My security clearance is done, and I've been issued world wide availability through medical. My understanding is that there are currently 30 some odd people on the roster, and 24 recruits per class. The way I read that is I should make not the next class, but the second class that gets filled. Have I oversimplified the process in my head?

[Gibbmusic]

Waiguizi, from what I understand, the list is fluid and is ranked by score, not when you were given final clearance. In other words, just because there are 39 on the list doesn't mean you're up in the 30's because you were recently given clearance. With your veteran's preference, you might have a good shot at being in the top 24 depending on your other scores.

I hope they start my background soon, I turned it in about 2 weeks ago. I hope to fax my medical papers in by Tuesday of this week after I finish my last test (thank God).

Good luck to all,
Gibbmusic

[DSS-SA]

The other thing to keep in mind is that regardless of how new hires are ranked, some people "move up" because of availibility. I had two or three people in my BSAC class that had as little as 3 days notice to get to VA to start training. So keep in mind that if they call you, you might burn bridges at your current job by resigning on the spot, but it might get you into training quicker if you are ready (and willing) to go on short notice.

[Gibbmusic]

As bad as I want this job, I'd have to think hard about taking off on a 3-day notice to my current employer. Although I'm not planning on failing anything, I'd hate to think I would wash out with DSS for some reason and then have to come crawling back to my current dept. On top of that, the ones I would really be punishing if I left on such short notice would be my current teammates. The way my department goes, it might be months or years before they put another officer on my squad.

But then again, I'll cross that bridge when (or if) I ever come to it.

BTW, DSS-SA...are you on post overseas right now or just a nightbird like me?

Gibbmusic

[nebraska_deputy]

wow. There seems to be a Federal Law Enforcement agency for everything.

[DSS-SA]

wow. There seems to be a Federal Law Enforcement agency for everything.
..brilliant insight Nebraska Deputy! Thanks for your contribution!:rolleyes:

[Jaymazik]

........................

[JeepingLEO]

DSS-SA:
What can you tell us about spousal employment? Is it easy/difficult for spouses to get jobs while overseas at post? My wife (BA from Cal Berkeley) has been politely pinging me to query those in the know. She'd like to work for State herself perhaps, assuming they, like the military, take joint fed spouses into consideration when moving folks around the globe. Any input or experience with this issue? Thanks again very much for all your insightful posts. I have completed the medical and security clearances and am currently "waiting" with the rest of the gaggle....

I know not from DSS-SA, but thought I'd jump in:

There are really two ways that she can work at the Embassy. The first is actually joining State through an announcement or taking the FSO exam; then you two become a tandem couple. The department will do what it can to ensure that you are stationed together, but this is not always possible. That being said, there are countless numbers of tandem couples within State.

The other way is to be hired as an EFM (Eligible Family Member) which is similar to military spouse preference. The biggest problem is how many EFM positions are available at the Embassy you will be going to. Most are admin assistants, CLO's (Community Liasion Officer), Consular Assistants, GSO assistants (your property and asset managers, warehouse, furniture), housing coordinator, and also could get lucky to land a job with one of the other agencies that are at the Embassy (example would be admin assist with DEA or similar). When you are doing your bid list, send an email to the Family Liasion Office at Main State, the Management Officer or CLO at Post and ask how many EFM positions they have...whether they include benefits or not...are they full-time, part-time etc... and are any of them going to be vacant when you and your wife arrive. If they are going to be available, then your wife could forward her resume in advance to have a head start.

The availability of jobs will vary from post to post and bureau to bureau. Obviously the bigger the post, the more likely that a job she likes will be available (or any job for that matter). I wouldn't get her hopes up nor yours for that matter...in my personal opinion...when I have had a low expectation of the post I'm going to....I'm usually pleasantly surprised. Which I guess could be true for anything.

If you have any more questions fire away!

P.S. Security Clearance update...received an email...the copy of my birth certificate never made it...hmmmm...anyhow they were nice and asked for a fax copy until my original case file is pulled. I know things happen, but thought I'd share it anyways.

[JeepingLEO]

DSS-SA:

With the mandatory physical fitness program now in place...what does it consist of? Does it follow what is listed in the FAM/FAH? Is it mandatory with the fact that it is something that is now evaluated in your EER? or what is the process if you don't make the minimums? The FAM/FAH that talks about physical fitness holds a very high/good standard, but there is no difference for sex/age...is there a new table out?

Or has the word just been passed around that physical fitness is now mandatory, but have yet to follow up with specific details?

[Jaymazik]

...............

[zxcvbnm]

For DSS-SA and any other DSS Agents...

What was your background before DSS?

Aside from the LE requirements, how much does your interest in international affairs/international living experience play into your application?

How good of a stepping stone do you feel Border Patrol would be?


I ask because I am very interested in both LE and the world. I would love to travel and live abroad. I am joining Border Patrol but I feel that ultimately down the line I would like to get involved with DSS. I also studied International Relations in school and wanted to know if that would be a benefit.

Thanks for any input.

[DSS-SA]

JeepingLEO summed up very well the spousal employment opportunities within the Embassy/State Dept overseas. In many countries it is also possible for family members to work for a local company or government, especially if they have sought-after job skills or language abilities. Another option is working via the internet from home. There are several legitimate companies that target stay-at-home spouses to be "virtual assistants", proofreaders, medical billers, etc. Unfortunately, alot of the places we serve don't have adequate internet access, or the postal system is very limited for sending/receiving materials.
A very common problem is that a spouse who has left their professional career behind in order to support their gov't employed spouse's career is encouraged to seek a job at the Embassy, but it is usually very mundane and/or administrative in nature. Some people really need to be challenged and/or serve in a position with clout, while others are satisfied just to be out of the house and earning some money.

I encourage you all to keep in contact with your investigators. When I was getting my intial clearance, my investigation stalled for about 6 weeks while he waited for an official copy of a record of birth overseas for my sister. When he told me the reason for the delay, I asked him if a copy would suffice. He said "yes"; I faxed him a copy, and my clearance was adjudicated 3 days later - I still don't know if they ever received the official document that they were waiting for!

For zxcvbnm, I encourage you to go back through this entire thread - there are several posts that discuss experience, education, and background for aspiring DSS agents. If you still have specific questions, re-post and I will reply.

[exeproagent]

Im new here on this forum but have been on the 911 job forum for those who know it. I took the online test a while back. I as checking an old email address and was invited to the SA testing. I m in the atlanta area and will be testing out of DC. I was told what to prepare for and have read this entire post and this is great info. For those up here any advice?

[DSS-SA]

DSS-SA:

With the mandatory physical fitness program now in place...what does it consist of? Does it follow what is listed in the FAM/FAH? Is it mandatory with the fact that it is something that is now evaluated in your EER? or what is the process if you don't make the minimums? The FAM/FAH that talks about physical fitness holds a very high/good standard, but there is no difference for sex/age...is there a new table out?

Or has the word just been passed around that physical fitness is now mandatory, but have yet to follow up with specific details?

The last that I heard, the physical fitness program requirements were:
It is mandatory to PASS both the DS and FLETC fitness tests in order to graduate BSAC. After that, the language, and the administration of the program gets a little fuzzy... It is then mandatory to PARTICIPATE (i.e. show up, and do one push up, one sit up, and take one step in the run) annually to take the physical fitness assessment (if you happen to be somewhere where it is given like a domestic field office). The only time I think I have had to take the test (post-BSAC) was at the beginning of the RSO Course. I think that it will eventually be enforced, but they have had a difficult time establishing the testing methods and standards, so it is kind of in flux. It is hard to believe that a federal law enforcement agency that has been around so long, with such a demanding lifestyle did not have a physical fitness program as part of it's regulations until about three years ago!

[zxcvbnm]

As I stated in my title, I actually used to be a Foreign Service IT specialist,

Why did you quit being a Foreign Service IT specialist?

[JeepingLEO]

Why did you quit being a Foreign Service IT specialist?

Actually I transferred to another agency (opporunity came up) to broaden my experience. Plus by transferring back to CONUS (DC) it is easier to apply for LEO jobs. I was LE before going FS IT. I feel that all of the experiences I have been through have added to my understanding of how our Gov't works...ehhh sometimes doesn't work....together.

I'm going back to FS but as a LEO because being a LEO has always been my goal. Not to mention that State is a great organization (compared to those I've worked with) and overseas life is a hidden secret within the Fed.

[zxcvbnm]

Actually I transferred to another agency (opporunity came up) to broaden my experience. Plus by transferring back to CONUS (DC) it is easier to apply for LEO jobs. I was LE before going FS IT. I feel that all of the experiences I have been through have added to my understanding of how our Gov't works...ehhh sometimes doesn't work....together.

I'm going back to FS but as a LEO because being a LEO has always been my goal. Not to mention that State is a great organization (compared to those I've worked with) and overseas life is a hidden secret within the Fed.

[GoldBadge]

A very common problem is that a spouse who has left their professional career behind in order to support their gov't employed spouse's career

That was a major problem for me at the USSS and is something that one should consider before going to work for an agency like DSS where your stuff has to pretty much be on wheels.

[DSS-SA]

I would love to work for the Foreign Service, either thru DSS or being an officer. I plan on taking both tests when they next come up.

Bottom Line of the keyboard (zxcvbnm):
From your last few posts it looks to me like you are at the beginning of your career search and you are open to all possibilities/opportunities. This is a great attitude, and I do not mean to discourage you, but careers in the USBP, DSS, and the Foreign Service are three completely different animals.
As for using the Border Patrol as a "stepping stone" to any FLEO position, my theory is this: #1, you would not be alone! The Border Patrol has the highest turn-over rate of any federal agency. They lack middle managers because everyone is either nearing retirement or jumping ship after a couple of years to move on to another law enforcement job (federal, state, local). #2, the only advantage that I see you gaining in the BP towards a career in DS is that you will be earning retirement time as a gov't employee. The mission, structure, training, etc are completely unrelated. Not to dispairage the USBP, but to me this is the same situation that people that take jobs as correctional officers when they want to be police officers. (Not that one is "better" than the other, just that they are absolutely not related careers) I would actually encourage you to work for any federal agency (not necessarily as a FLEO) to gain work experience and time towards gov't retirement because the current trend of DS recruiters has been to look for good canditates and train them to be Special Agents rather than recruiting from the military, police, etc. (JeepingLEO is likely a good example of this) Several agencies have intel analysts, program managers, researchers, etc. that work with and support agents in the field if you want to stay close to FLEO work, but it is truly not required to have LE experience to be a DSS agent. To me this would be much more of a valuable "apprenticeship" (and networking arena) than patroling the southwest border for a couple of years. This is not to say that most new hires don't have military or police experience, but the Dept. of State wants candidates that they see as future diplomats, not door kickers and knuckle draggers.
As for the statement that you want to work for State as either an FSO or with DSS - these are totally different careers as well. If the gist of your comment is that you want to accept the challenge of working for the U.S. gov't overseas, then you might be satsfied with either. But a simple, not entirely accurate, analogy here is: would you like to be in the Army as either a paratrooper or a cook, just to be in the Army? Again, I am not taking anything away from Army cooks, they fed me well, but do you see my point?
I am not saying that I had it all figured out right after college, I actually entered DSS when I was 31 - what I am trying to discourage is the trend that alot of people have of "agency shopping" when trying to break in as a FLEO. Alot end up getting hired by someone, and get their credentials, but not at the agency they truly want. After the excitement of being a "Fed" where's off, they usually start applying to other agencies or resign. With only 2 or three classes per year of 24 agents, I am just trying to make sure that as many slots as possible go to people who know exactly what DSS agents do and that they are prepared for the challenging lifestyle.

[waiguizi]

3 days notice before a class date, wow... sounds like Cpt. inefficient is at the helm in human resources. I called personnel and security management and I've been granted a reciprocity clearance, however....someone can't seem to push the button to get a banana and effectively transfer that data to human resources' files.

Sounds like everyone is tracking right along in the employment process on the bright side. Did I read someone getting nervous about physical fitness standards? I swear I thought it sounded that way ...... ;) Hope you're all doing well.

[JeepingLEO]

Just to reiterate what DSS-SA said...be sure to know what you are getting into. Talk to people, ask for the real story and what life in the job was really like. Be sure to get more than one opinion. I remember everyone saying never base your view of the Foreign Service on your first post...absolutely true! In fact, I wouldn't base it on your first, second, or even third. Your satisfaction should be gauged over a period of time averaging out all of the pluses and minuses.

Glad they are using reciprocity for your clearance. Definitely seems efficient. I'm still waiting on mine...I had to fax a few other items over that went missing. No worries, things happens.

Not worried about physical fitness...just always curious to see what one agency deems as a standard vs. other agencies.

Good luck all!

[waiguizi]

Just bustin your boys about the PT. I was running around in the mountains near lake Shasta last week and definitely not feeling as 18 as I used to.

DSS-SA, I know an agent who went straight to Kenya after FLETC. A year ago he said there was a high possibility of going to a high demand post (Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan) right out of training. Sounds like this is changing for the new hires? Part of me is very eager to get to a challenging posting, but I understand the necessity for experience and training before an agent can be effective abroad.

[METT-T]

Probably a stupid question, but has anyone gotten any fidelity as to approximately when the next testing cycle will be? End of this year or sometime next?

[JeepingLEO]

Probably a stupid question, but has anyone gotten any fidelity as to approximately when the next testing cycle will be? End of this year or sometime next?

METT-T although I don't have any direct knowledge at this time, the following was taken directly from the DS website http://www.state.gov/m/ds/career/

"NOTE: Special Agent Testing
We are still administering the written and oral assessments for candidates who successfully passed the online screening for the Special Agent announcement number SA-06-01. We will be contacting those candidates who have not yet been scheduled, as we anticipate we will be testing until the end of the year."

The last online assessment was given last fall, so I would imagine that it won't be until latter fall if they do give one this calendar year. The above statement sounds like they are doing their best to exhaust the list of potential candidates before they even consider another online exam. Please note that anything can change this, the biggest of which is coming with October 1 (the new Gov't Fiscal year 2008). No one can predict what Congress or world events might change between now and then.

Good luck when you do take it. Just relax and be confident.

[DSS-SA]

DSS-SA, I know an agent who went straight to Kenya after FLETC. A year ago he said there was a high possibility of going to a high demand post (Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan) right out of training. Sounds like this is changing for the new hires? Part of me is very eager to get to a challenging posting, but I understand the necessity for experience and training before an agent can be effective abroad.

As far as I know, there is always a possibility of going directly overseas after BSAC. In my experience, they will always float one or two open, hard-to-fill ARSO jobs to a BSAC class about 2/3 of the way through. The people who usually jump at them are already assigned to a HQ job that they don't want, or to a field office that was not high on their list (or joined DSS primarily to do RSO-type work vs. crim/protection). As I have said several times before, I highly discourage this move for 99% of new agents. A domestic tour, even at an assignment that doesn't appear to be too enticing will better prepare you for your first trip overseas, and keep you more in line with the career path/promotion precepts. I have never seen someone so uncomfortable as a 5-year agent (in a Supervisory Position) trying to run a criminal program and a protection detail after not doing either since his BSAC class...(but he was probably a kick-@ss ARSO).

[exeproagent]

METT-T

I passed the online testing when they opened the announcement DSS-SA earlier this yr. I was notified last monday from HR that I would be scheduled to report to DC in juky for the Oral interview essay etc. She informed me that they had already completed the hiring for FY 07 however they got notification form "up top" to hire more for 07. So she said upon sucessful completion of the testing and backgrounding there is a oct 07 class that i would be processed for. so to answer your question i think the next class is october 07. I have a family friend who works for DSS for over 25 + yrs and hes actually getting in touch with the person who has the protfolio for DSS SA and ill let you ladies and gentleman know any info i recieve

[Gavilan]

Hey guys...I was finally interviewed by my background investigator yesterday, so it looks like things are moving along. For a while, things were taking forever! I had submited my paperwork at the end of March and my case wasn't officially assigned to an investigator until June 8th.

I had heard from several agents working here at State that if you currently reside in DC (like myself) that your first assignment is likely to be DC so that State doesn't have to pay for relocation. Has anyone heard this to be true? I'm thinking of buying a place if we're going to be here for another 4 years (time in between now and when training starts+7 months of training+3 year domestic tour)

Also, to assuage previous concerns over "the list," I personally spoke to the individual in HR who manages it, and she told me that for the most part, if you make it on the list, YOU WILL receive a call for employment at some point. According to her, a lot of people self-select off of the list because of other job opportunities, etc. This almost makes the 18 month rule more applicable to individuals who keep putting off offers because they are not "ready" to take the job.

[DSS-SA]

I had heard from several agents working here at State that if you currently reside in DC (like myself) that your first assignment is likely to be DC so that State doesn't have to pay for relocation. Has anyone heard this to be true? I'm thinking of buying a place if we're going to be here for another 4 years (time in between now and when training starts+7 months of training+3 year domestic tour).

It is hard to comprehend, and a little hard to explain, but my personal experience was the exact opposite. I too, was a DC area hire, and came in with the same idea (they won't pay to move me). On my "wishlist" of domestic posts that they gave me, I even picked WFO as my first choice, but I ended up at choice #3 on my list.
In my class, everyone hired from the DC area (3 or 4 of us) were all assigned away from DC, and all of the DC-based jobs in my class went to people who had to relocate. After being a trainee for a few weeks and understanding how per diem works, I developed a theory. My theory, which I have shared over the years, and gained support for is this:
Part 1: If they hire you from the DC area, the regulations state that they DO NOT have to pay you per diem during training (lodging plus M&IE) because you already live there. This saves them tens of thousands of dollars per trainee.
Part 2: If you are hired from outside the DC area, but assigned to a DC job, your official relocation to the DC area is at the start of training. They pay to move your family and your stuff, but you are responsible for finding your own housing and paying for it because that will be your area of employment after training, and they once again, DO NOT pay any per diem while you are in training.
Part 3: If in a class of 24 students they send 5 that were hired in DC to different domestic locations, and move 5-10 to DC for DC jobs, they are only paying the per diem during training of those who were not DC residents when they were hired and are going to a different location after training - they can cut their costs significantly! Six months of per diem is far more expensive (per person) than the one-time domestic relocation of a family!
...think about it...it is ALWAYS about $$$$:rolleyes:

[Gavilan]

DSS-SA

I can see your point and this makes perfect sense..."show me the money"

I guess I will hold off on buying a house right until I know where my first duty station will be.

Might I ask another question? Do many of your colleagues attempt to get residency in non tax states (such as Florida) to avoid paying state taxes for the majority of their careers?

[DSS-SA]

Might I ask another question? Do many of your colleagues attempt to get residency in non tax states (such as Florida) to avoid paying state taxes for the majority of their careers?
The smart ones do!
As a sworn federal agent, I wouldn't use your language of "avoiding" taxes, but rather to be officially domiciled in a state where the state tax system is beneficial...:D
There are several states that are absolutely tax free, but there alot more that will charge you state tax, but then refund it if you are out of the state (or country) for more than 180 days of the year, so it is not always necessary to "move" before going overseas. Also, remember that as a DSS agent, you will do domestic tours so you will be living in the U.S at some point during your career (at least one DC-tour is required if you want to get to the most senior pay grades).
As a reminder, as members of the Foreign Service, you will always pay federal taxes. You are not entitled to the tax waiver that private citizens working abroad get, nor do you get the "war zone" tax exemptions that the military gets.

[Gibbmusic]

Well things are still chugging along for me in the process. I spoke with HR and was informed that my security clearance is due by mid-October. After 5 (yes, FIVE) trips to my doctor, I finally got them to finish all the tests this week, I'm just waiting for the last blood test reports to come in so I can fax that beast off. Then I guess it'll all be out of my hands.

My question: I tried reading back but didn't see this....Is the medical clearance usually handled pretty quickly? I can understand a two-to-six month security clearance based on the amount of work that needs to be done, but I would think medical would be pretty simple unless there are any questionable areas. My guess is that a nurse/doctor looks over the forms and reports to make sure everything looks okay...if any questions come up I'd think it would be put to the side for further investigation but if it all looks clear, then you should get immediate clearance. Anybody give me a timeline of when I should expect medical clearance and when I should start worrying? Also, do they notify you when the medical and/or security clearances are done, or do you have to check in with them?

Thanks again for the help, hope to see you guys in the field soon,
Gibbmusic

[Gavilan]

I had all my medical paperwork in by the end of April and took the last of my medical examinations (the medical stress test) on the 3rd of May. I received a letter dated May 15th, and a subsequent e-mail on the 21st, which granted me my medical clearance. I am in DC, however, so I'm sure that made things a little more streamlined. As long as your medical staff back home properly filled out the paperwork and the DC staff received it, and they tell you that is is filled out properly, you shouldn't have any major complications. I work a bit on getting positions advertised and helping candidates with the hiring process within my office here at State, and we generally tell those individuals that medical clearances usually take about 1 month from the time they submit their paperwork. If you haven't received anything after one month, I would start to make some phone calls.

[zxcvbnm]

Bottom Line of the keyboard (zxcvbnm):
From your last few posts it looks to me like you are at the beginning of your career search and you are open to all possibilities/opportunities. This is a great attitude, and I do not mean to discourage you, but careers in the USBP, DSS, and the Foreign Service are three completely different animals.
As for using the Border Patrol as a "stepping stone" to any FLEO position, my theory is this: #1, you would not be alone! The Border Patrol has the highest turn-over rate of any federal agency. They lack middle managers because everyone is either nearing retirement or jumping ship after a couple of years to move on to another law enforcement job (federal, state, local). #2, the only advantage that I see you gaining in the BP towards a career in DS is that you will be earning retirement time as a gov't employee. The mission, structure, training, etc are completely unrelated. Not to dispairage the USBP, but to me this is the same situation that people that take jobs as correctional officers when they want to be police officers. (Not that one is "better" than the other, just that they are absolutely not related careers) I would actually encourage you to work for any federal agency (not necessarily as a FLEO) to gain work experience and time towards gov't retirement because the current trend of DS recruiters has been to look for good canditates and train them to be Special Agents rather than recruiting from the military, police, etc. (JeepingLEO is likely a good example of this) Several agencies have intel analysts, program managers, researchers, etc. that work with and support agents in the field if you want to stay close to FLEO work, but it is truly not required to have LE experience to be a DSS agent. To me this would be much more of a valuable "apprenticeship" (and networking arena) than patroling the southwest border for a couple of years. This is not to say that most new hires don't have military or police experience, but the Dept. of State wants candidates that they see as future diplomats, not door kickers and knuckle draggers.
As for the statement that you want to work for State as either an FSO or with DSS - these are totally different careers as well. If the gist of your comment is that you want to accept the challenge of working for the U.S. gov't overseas, then you might be satsfied with either. But a simple, not entirely accurate, analogy here is: would you like to be in the Army as either a paratrooper or a cook, just to be in the Army? Again, I am not taking anything away from Army cooks, they fed me well, but do you see my point?
I am not saying that I had it all figured out right after college, I actually entered DSS when I was 31 - what I am trying to discourage is the trend that alot of people have of "agency shopping" when trying to break in as a FLEO. Alot end up getting hired by someone, and get their credentials, but not at the agency they truly want. After the excitement of being a "Fed" where's off, they usually start applying to other agencies or resign. With only 2 or three classes per year of 24 agents, I am just trying to make sure that as many slots as possible go to people who know exactly what DSS agents do and that they are prepared for the challenging lifestyle.

[zxcvbnm]

Just to reiterate what DSS-SA said...be sure to know what you are getting into. Talk to people, ask for the real story and what life in the job was really like. Be sure to get more than one opinion. I remember everyone saying never base your view of the Foreign Service on your first post...absolutely true! In fact, I wouldn't base it on your first, second, or even third. Your satisfaction should be gauged over a period of time averaging out all of the pluses and minuses.


Good luck all!

[DSS-SA]

zxcvbnm:
I agree with all of the "positives" that you cited as benefits of being in the BP now, then hopefully transitioning to a special agent position somewhere else. I hope you are smart enough to really apply yourself in the BP, and keep your future plans to yourself. No supervisor is going to give you as much leeway or opportunities for advanced training or challenging assignments if they think you are a short-timer "using" them as a stepping stone. I would guess that attrition is their biggest HR challenge.
The only other advice I have is that while you are in the BP, try and make yourself a more desireable applicant to DSS (or any other agency). For example, if you are living in a small border town in the southwest and you have alot of free time, try and take some graduate-level courses by correspondence, on the internet, or at a local campus. Even if you complete one course towards a higher degree, that is one more box to check one your application, and at least one more step on your entry level salary vs. only having a 4-yr degree.
Best of luck in the BP. I hope that you understand that in my previous post I was not in anyway putting down the BP. It is an important job, and I commend you for undertaking the challenge.

[Beatle]

I can't believe I just found this site! I am one of the people sitting on a Conditional Job Offer right now. It sounds like most of you have completed the security and medical clearances but if I can be any help I'm willing. I understand the process pretty well and I actually grew up as a dependant of a Diplomatic Security Special Agent. My father was a DS Special Agent from 1980-2001. So if you have any family members who have questions, I would be happy to answer them. For background, I actually applied in Aug 2005, passed the online screening and completed the interview process last year in June 2006. I was given a Conditional Job Offer in Oct 2006 and completed the medical ASAP. I too could not keep the private clinic straight. After 6 visits and 6 needle pokes, I finally got what I needed and turned the package in. Approximately 2 weeks later I got an email advising I was medically cleared. DS started my TS-SCI in the end of Nov 2006 and I was granted a TS clearance in addition to my military TS clearance around the 20th of December. Approximately, 2 weeks later HR contacted me and offered me a January 2007 class. Needless to say, due to a military commitment, I could not accept that class or a March 2007 class either. 17 Sept 2007 marks the end of my military commitment, therefore I plan on accepting the next class date I am offered. I am crossing my fingers it will be in Oct and I look forward to meeting you all there.

[zxcvbnm]

zxcvbnm:
I agree with all of the "positives" that you cited as benefits of being in the BP now, then hopefully transitioning to a special agent position somewhere else. I hope you are smart enough to really apply yourself in the BP, and keep your future plans to yourself. No supervisor is going to give you as much leeway or opportunities for advanced training or challenging assignments if they think you are a short-timer "using" them as a stepping stone. I would guess that attrition is their biggest HR challenge.
The only other advice I have is that while you are in the BP, try and make yourself a more desireable applicant to DSS (or any other agency). For example, if you are living in a small border town in the southwest and you have alot of free time, try and take some graduate-level courses by correspondence, on the internet, or at a local campus. Even if you complete one course towards a higher degree, that is one more box to check one your application, and at least one more step on your entry level salary vs. only having a 4-yr degree.
Best of luck in the BP. I hope that you understand that in my previous post I was not in anyway putting down the BP. It is an important job, and I commend you for undertaking the challenge.

[zxcvbnm]

I can't believe I just found this site! I am one of the people sitting on a Conditional Job Offer right now. It sounds like most of you have completed the security and medical clearances but if I can be any help I'm willing. I understand the process pretty well and I actually grew up as a dependant of a Diplomatic Security Special Agent. My father was a DS Special Agent from 1980-2001. So if you have any family members who have questions, I would be happy to answer them. For background, I actually applied in Aug 2005, passed the online screening and completed the interview process last year in June 2006. I was given a Conditional Job Offer in Oct 2006 and completed the medical ASAP. I too could not keep the private clinic straight. After 6 visits and 6 needle pokes, I finally got what I needed and turned the package in. Approximately 2 weeks later I got an email advising I was medically cleared. DS started my TS-SCI in the end of Nov 2006 and I was granted a TS clearance in addition to my military TS clearance around the 20th of December. Approximately, 2 weeks later HR contacted me and offered me a January 2007 class. Needless to say, due to a military commitment, I could not accept that class or a March 2007 class either. 17 Sept 2007 marks the end of my military commitment, therefore I plan on accepting the next class date I am offered. I am crossing my fingers it will be in Oct and I look forward to meeting you all there.

[GoBears]

Hey everyone. I am new to the site. You all are very informative. I am waiting for my interview in Chicago. I just purchased a couple books from the State Dept website. They are pretty helpful.

[Beatle]

Congrats on getting that far.

What is your background?

What advantages do you think someone coming from Border Patrol would have?

I got a good answer from DSS-SA already but I want to get more opinions if possible...

Thanks

zxcvbnm, I am going to do my best to keep this from turning into a book. As far as my background goes, I have actually applied to Diplomatic Security twice.

The first time I applied, I had not finish my BA yet and I was 24 year old. Therefore I had to prove that I knew what I was applying for; I had to highlight my maturity and capability to work within stressful situations; and lastly, I needed to show that I could be suitable for the lifestyle of a DS Special Agent. I did all that by trying to focus screeners and interviewers on the fact that I was a dependant of a Diplomatic Security Special Agent. That proved I knew what I was getting into. Second, my maturity was highlighted through my work history. Throughout college I worked as a lifeguard, an Emergency Medical Technician, a Firefighter and a reserve Deputy Sheriff. Lastly, I sold the fact that I speak Spanish and am comfortable living and working in cultures found outside of the USA.

Following all of the events during the selection process in 1999, I was told that my name would go onto a list of eligible to hire personnel. But when DS did not contact me after several months, I accepted an Officer Training slot within the Air Force. Then "Murphy" showed himself and DS made me a conditional offer while I was attending Officer Training School. I had to turn it down and believe me I was a bit irritated having to do that.

Then in Aug 2005, when I saw that DS was accepting applications again, I decided to applied. I figured it might provide me with an option when my military commitment expired in 2007. That leads me to the continuation of my background. From Oct 2000 through present I have been an Officer in the Air Force. Right out of training I got an assignment to Air Force Special Operations to navigate AC-130H Spectre Gunships. This has been fun and has provided me with a TS clearance and 9 deployments full of stressful situations and experiences. With my military experience added to the previous experiences I had it only helped my case. I am happy to say the interview process seemed easier the second time.

Changing the subject to focus on your future BP experience; I think every situation and experience gains you ground, especially law enforcement experience. Therefore, my recommendation sound's a lot like DSS-SA's. You need to go into the Border Patrol wired to be the best agent they have ever seen. Enjoy the job and excel within BP and your supervision will take care of you. Then after a couple years if you decide you still want to pursue DS or other 1811 type employment you can use your experience at BP to propel you over the rest of the people applying. I also agree with DSS-SA when it comes to Advanced Education, get as much of it as you can.

I hope this helped.

Good Luck!

[waiguizi]

Nice to see everyone is progressing in the hiring process. I can certainly sympathize with everyone's experience in the medical screening. Both my wife and I made about 6 seperate trips to the local doctor (specializing in immigration physicals). One problem I encountered was the nomenclature my doctor used in some of the lab reports was unfamiliar to the medical staff at State, so that had to be cleared up in another report. In my experience it's always been pretty standard operating procedure for the private sector and the federal government to speak two different languages.

On another note, Beatle welcome to the pool and fortunately it looks pretty shallow. I'm sure your experience on the AC-130 was incredible. I currently work for an AF Colonel on a counter drug program in northern CA. He and I were just discussing the AC-130 the other night, he was a B-1 pilot himself.

One issue I seem to be having right now is that personnel security can clearly see that I have been granted a TS/SCI with the Army, but for whatever reason people aren't pressing the right buttons on the computer to transfer that to a State clearance (although they've assured me it should be as easy as receiving a reciprocity based clearance). So at this point my medical is done, but they can't send my packet across to the FRP because of the security clearance. I'm starting to get a little concerned that if it takes too much longer I'll be looking at missing the October class. Maybe I'm just being paranoid but I found myself amazed at how efficiently the DMV here in CA worked the other day when I went to get a copy of my driving record. When the DMV looks efficient, you know you've been putting up with way too much paperwork :)

[DSS-SA]

waiguizi:
The delay is likely not on State's side. As a former applicant, and now as an agent who does BI's, I can promise you that the agency holding the clearance is responsible for providing the info to the new agency. Even though State can "see" that you have a previous clearance, they need to receive the required documentation to adjudicate on their own. Often times it would have been quicker to start from scratch. If your BI coordinator at State has told you that this is what is holding you up, you should contact the responsible office at the Army on your own and request that they act on State's request as soon as possible...

[waiguizi]

Thanks for the advice. I am not suprised at all that the Army is holding up my clearance. I'll have to give them a call on Monday and romance them.

[Gibbmusic]

I also concur with the medical nightmare. I've visited the doctor's office no less than 7 times now. My doc's office has grown so big and busy, it's a nightmare getting them to sit down and carefully go over the paperwork with me. I've finally finished everything (I hope) and the last piece of paperwork is due back Monday. It's been right at 60 days since I got my conditional offer, I hope the folks at the State Dept. don't hold this against me. I also hope that I don't have to go back again because the doctor's office screwed something else up in the tests....bah, I getting sick of needles and cold hands on private parts.

Now it's time to wait some more.

Gibbmusic

[Beatle]

waiguizi,
I went through that whole Military Clearance vs. State Dept Clearance thing last year and asked every question you are asking. A senior person in DS Recruitment (who is also a 35 year retired SA) told me that they do not give security clearance reciprocity to Special Agent recruits in DS. The prior TS/SCI helps speed the process but it is not the end all be all. After I had the interview with the investigator I understood why. The DOD TS/SCI personal interview for me lasted 15mins; the DS TS/SCI personal interview lasted 2.5 hours. DS's clearance process, in my opinion, seems a lot more in-depth than the Office of Personnel Management's process.

The good news, even though DS's process is detailed, I found that the investigators were very efficient. All of the reports for my investigation were complete within 2.5 weeks and 1.5 months after the process was started I had my DS TS clearance.

[DSS-SA]

Forum Members:
I received a message via PM recently from an applicant with a Conditional Offer wanting to know about the breakdown of work (Crim, Protection, etc) and the hours/schedules involved. He also asked me about how one's personal life might be affected as a new agent. I drafted a reply for him, but it was too long to send via PM, so I am posting it here for him, and all of you.
As I have said before, I am happy to answer anyone's questions, but all I ask is that you review the entire thread first to see if I have written on the topic before, since alot of you have the same areas of concern. Also, unless the information in your question is such that it reveals private details that you don't want on the forum, please ask it here instead of via PM so that others might offer their response and input.
---------------------------------------------------------------

1) breakdown of work: this really depends on what your first job is. If you go to the NY or DC field office you will do alot of protection, but these metropolitan areas also have a ton of passport fraud cases as well. The other field offices you will focus on investigations, but you will probably end up doing alot of protection, the only difference is you will travel more to do the protection versus doing it in your home city. The Secretary of State's protective detail needs 30-50 agents to supplement the permanent detail for international trips involving two or three stops; most of these agents are TDY from the field offices. if you happen to be assigned to a HQ's job in DC (not the field office) your work will be very specific to that office. These are things like full time criminal liaison, full time visa fraud investigations, staffing the Operations or Command Center, etc. These jobs are not regularly filled by new agents, but there are exceptions. You will not do anything regarding facility protection until/unless you are posted overseas as an ARSO. Regardless of where you are assigned, or what type of work you are doing, I don't think you should ever really count on having a "business-like" schedule (9-5, for instance). There are a few jobs, that require shift work that are more predictable, and the RSO job has more "regular" hours due to the mor eadministrative aspect of it, couple with regular working hours at an embasy, but the cell phone still rings at all hours if there is a security situation that needs your attention...

2) personal life: this depends on what your current status is, and what you want to do! Single guys tend to have a blast living in a new city, travelling internationally for TDY's, etc. Spouses and children have a tough time adjusting to the new hours and frequent, sometimes last-minute travel (as does the agent!). If you are "attached" I suggest you start preparing for the changes now. The mairrages that I have seen in trouble in the first two years are usally due to the sudden career change and relocation to a strange (big) city, and the impending move overseas. Think of a young woman who has a stable career and still lives in her hometown or home state. Within a period of a year or so, she is asked to quit her job, move to DC temporarily, then to San Francisco (for example). She has been taken away from everything that gives her comfort (besides her husband): her friends, family, coworkers, job, etc. I was lucky in a sense, because my wife (then girlfriend) and I met before I joined DS, but I lived a very similar lifestyle as an agent. So, in the long run she kind of knew what she was getting into with me...

[Law-man]

Good afternoon all,

I have posted here one time previously; however it has been a while. I have a few questions about the DSS, and just wanted to field them out there.

First off, I have a bachelor’s degree in International Affairs, and most recently I am a law school graduate (I am currently studying for the Colorado Bar Exam). I have been applying for a position with DS for as long as I can remember. The main reason I went to law school was to continue to pad my resume with graduate work that would be as closely-related to diplomacy as possible. As a kid I lived overseas a lot, living in Tanzania, Austria, Indonesia, Korea, and traveling just about everywhere else. My father was a professor of forestry and his specialty was tropical forest research. As such, it took us everywhere.

I have taken the FSO exam 4 times and passed the written portion the most recent time, however not advancing past the orals in DC. I have always wanted to work as a diplomat. I plan to continue to take the exam.

I enjoy the idea of law enforcement, although I have never had a law enforcement job, per se. I was in the Army, as a 13b and paratrooper in the early 90s, and that is as close as my experience ever got in law enforcement (which is to say that it was not really that close at all).

Questions:
1. How conducive is my experience and education to a position as a DSS SA (will I be an outcast, having a law degree as opposed to practical law enforcement experience)?

2. I am currently waiting to find out if I will be offered a slot in the tentative October 15th, 2007 class. If offered a slot, when would I find out what my 1st duty station would be? Would that be determined before going to DC for the first time, or during FLETC training, or at some other time?

3. If I enter into the DSS and love it, which I fully expect to, are there other positions that one can transfer into after the mandatory retirement age comes along? The reason I ask is because I am 36 years old, and as such, if I take this job, I will only have it for 21 years maximum before I am forced to retire. Since that leaves 8 or 9 years before I actually would like to retire, what do people generally do in their careers after that time? I have noticed quite a few civil service opportunities listed in the DOS and other agencies. Do these agencies and other jobs generally hire retirees from 1811 positions such as DSS?

4. Physical training: What is the best workout to get used to, in preparing for FLETC?

Thank you

[GoBears]

Hello,

I am preparing for my assessment in Chicago. When do DS canidates take the Foreign Service Officer Test?

Thanks!

[Law-man]

continued from previous message...

5. Are the uniformed DS officers special agents as well? The reason I ask is simply to find out if part of the job of a DSS SA is to stand post at the entrance of embassies with a uniform on, or if those are completely separate positions within the DOS.

Thank you

[Law-man]

The next FSO exam has not yet been posted, but it is supposed to be some time this summer. If you go to the FSO section of careers area at State.gov, it will tell you all about their plans. I am still waiting.

Best of luck

[GoBears]

Law-Man,

Thanks for the response.

[JeepingLEO]

The next FSO exam has not yet been posted, but it is supposed to be some time this summer. If you go to the FSO section of careers area at State.gov, it will tell you all about their plans. I am still waiting.

Best of luck

Please remember that a Foreign Service Officer is not a DS Special Agent. FSO's are your Management, Political, Economics, Public Affairs employees. DS Special Agents do not take the FSO exam unless they don't want to be a DS agent anymore. DS Special Agents are considered Foreign Service Specialists (careers.state.gov) and click on Foreign Service Specialist Careers. DS will have their own online assessment and application at some point to gather a list of potential DS Special Agents.

The biggest difference between Foreign Service Officers and Foreign Service Specialists is:
- Foreign Service Officers are given a commission by the President of the US
- Foreign Service Specialists are given a "commission" (not exactly a commission) by the Secretary of State

Lots of Specialists take the FSO exam just to take it and see what it's like. Good luck if you take the exam or the DS Online Assessment (whenever it might open again...proposed for around the end of the year '07).

[GoBears]

JeepingLEO,

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Gibbmusic]

DSS-SA (or others in the know), I have another quick question for you. It seems that I will (hopefully) be in the same boat with some of the others in this thread...having received med. and background clearance and waiting on the final word. My question is regarding the timing of things regarding the fiscal year. I've heard that the federal fiscal year begins on Oct. 1st and that's when we can expect some DSS classes to open back up...but is it possible that they'll start letting folks know that they're in before then? In other words I'm sure the budget has been finalized or is getting close to it by now...do they already know how many they are going to hire and have some tenative BSAC dates already set? I'm just hoping that if I do get lucky enough to be selected that it would be with at least a 2-week notice before the next orientation.

Thanks,
Gibbmusic

[DSS-SA]

Gibbmusic:
They would not give you short notice on purpose, so I don't think you have to worry about being rushed to orientation. When this happened in 2002 to some of my colleagues it was in the heart of the PATRIOT Act funding and DS was starting a new class of 24 almost every week for about 6 months straight - it was quite chaotic at the Training Center. Now that funding is tight, and classes are few and far between I don't think they will be filling classes at such a frenzy that they can't provide substantial advance notice. It is true that the fiscal year begins on Oct. 1st, but the budget has for the most part already been approved and the number of classes has likely been determined.
I suggest that once you are told your MED and BI are completed and you are cleared that you ask DS Recruitment what is on the horizon. They will likely tell you the pending class dates if known, and where you might fit in.
There is a very slight chance that you or someone else could get a "last minute" call but it would only happen if, say you are #26 on the list and they have a class of 24 starting in a few weeks. Maybe someone changes their mind and drops out of the class before it srtarts. DS would then start trying to fill that one slot, and if #25 isn't ready or doesn't answer his phone, you might get the offer. If this does happen, you would be well within your rights to say that you could not resign/relocate etc. fast enough and they shouldn't hold it against you - they would just call #27, #28 and so on until they found someone to fill the hole, and then you would be in a position to be in the next class...

[Jaymazik]

......................

[DSS-SA]

I am interested in learning DS ROE when faced with an airport official in a foreign country demanding you surrender the Sig...:eek:

This is definitely not material suitable for internet message board discussion!;)

[DSS-SA]

continued from previous message...

5. Are the uniformed DS officers special agents as well? The reason I ask is simply to find out if part of the job of a DSS SA is to stand post at the entrance of embassies with a uniform on, or if those are completely separate positions within the DOS.

Thank you

Clarifications:
Uniformed DSS Officers are not Special Agents, they are security guards with a special police commission that allows them to be armed. They are contract employees (not USG or State) and they serve only at domestic State facilities.
Guards at Embassies are locally hired citizens (not Americans) and work with host-country agencies (police, military) to provide security at U.S. diplomatic facilities. The guard program is supervised by the RSO. At most embassies, internal defense is handled by U.S. Marines, but not all embassies have a Marine Detachment.

[DSS-SA]

Questions:
1. How conducive is my experience and education to a position as a DSS SA (will I be an outcast, having a law degree as opposed to practical law enforcement experience)?

2. I am currently waiting to find out if I will be offered a slot in the tentative October 15th, 2007 class. If offered a slot, when would I find out what my 1st duty station would be? Would that be determined before going to DC for the first time, or during FLETC training, or at some other time?

3. If I enter into the DSS and love it, which I fully expect to, are there other positions that one can transfer into after the mandatory retirement age comes along? The reason I ask is because I am 36 years old, and as such, if I take this job, I will only have it for 21 years maximum before I am forced to retire. Since that leaves 8 or 9 years before I actually would like to retire, what do people generally do in their careers after that time? I have noticed quite a few civil service opportunities listed in the DOS and other agencies. Do these agencies and other jobs generally hire retirees from 1811 positions such as DSS?

4. Physical training: What is the best workout to get used to, in preparing for FLETC?


1. You will not be an outcast at all. I had two lawyers in my class. Almost anyone can be trained to be an SA, but what makes you better is the experience that you bring to the job from your previous life.

2. It might have changed since I went through, but when I was offered my class date, I was sent a list of domestic locations that I was to rank order as to my preference. I was then notified of my assignment before reporting to training. (i got the third city on my list). It is possible for your assignment to change while you are in training, but this would usually be initiated by them asking your entire class for volunteers to fill a critical need position (most likely a HQ job in DC, or at a hardship post overseas). As I have said several times before - I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT ALL ENTRY-LEVEL AGENTS DO A DOMESTIC ASSIGNMENT FIRST, PREFERABLY IN A FIELD OFFICE.

3. All 1811 jobs have the same mandatory retirement age. There are hundereds of positions in all agencies where they bring people back with a certain skill or expertise as a civil servant or a contractor. My suggestion is that you look at consultant or corporate security jobs at that point. You will still be relatively young, have a wealth of international LE experience, and you will be drawing a gov't pension and earning private-sector income on top of it (all from a corner office with a corporate travel budget, staff, etc).

4. The DS and FLETC PT tests are geared towards overall fitness. You should do extensive cardio, upper body work (push ups and/or bench press, etc), abs and stretching. The one thing that really gave alot of people trouble at FLETC was a flexibility test. You have to sit on the floor with your legs straight in front of you, knees locked, and push a sliding ruler as far as you can (towards or beyond your toes). Many people that were otherwise in excellent shape had not done the stretching and conditioning of these muscles and were in jeopardy of failing this requirement.

[Law-man]

I just wanted to thank you for all of the information that you have provided to all of us who are interested. Your answers to my questions were exactly what I was looking for. I now have a much better idea of what to expect. Now I just have to hope that I get the "final offer call" for the October 15th class. I am really looking forward to it.

One more question: For the purposes of determining one's first duty station, if they operate the bid-list the same way as you explained, do you know if bidders are automatically precluded from choosing the city that they are currently living in? I have some friends in the FBI and they have told me that no new agent is allowed to be stationed in the city in which they lived when they were hired. I have no problem moving around, and my wife is eager to go overseas as well, but I am just trying to get a feeling for everthing early on.

Thanks again

[Law-man]

Just a couple of questions, while I am thinking about them:

1. With respect to duty stations in the US such as NYC and San Fran, are the salaries along with the adjustments adequate to be able to actually live well, while at the same time not spend too much money on rent, and be able to put some money aside in savings? I have friends in Manhattan who have told me that it is not really feasible to spend less than $3000 per month on rent. If that's the case, it would seem that doing UN duty might be detrimental to one's wallet. Does State have housing in these extremely expensive areas, or how does that work?

2. On average, how much does State charge its employees for medical and dental insurance?

3. I have heard that for agents with foreign-born spouces, it may not be possible to be stationed in the country of that foreign born spouse. As this is my case (wife from South Korea), I just wanted to know if we would ever be able to be stationed in South Korea (my wife would really enjoy being close to her family for a while.)

Thank you very much

[Gibbmusic]

Well I'm yet again impress by the efficiency of the hiring process with State. After battling an epic conflict with my doctors for the last month and a half, I finally faxed off my medical paperwork on Monday night. Yesterday I got an email from one of the nurses regarding my paperwork. I called her and spoke to her for less than 10 minutes about some minor issues and she said she had to consult a specialist before she could grant anything. This morning by 10 am, I had an email notifying me that I have been granted unlimited medical clearance!

All I can say is, wow. I'm amazed yet again, the State Dept. seems to defy the "red tape" stigma that is associated with the federal government...at least for the hiring process ;) .

One more obstacle down, only the background and final offer to go...keeping my fingers crossed.

Gibbmusic

[Jaymazik]

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[Jaymazik]

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[Jaymazik]

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[DSS-SA]

Law-man:
DSS does not have a policy (as does the FBI) that you cannot work in your home city, but I know several people that were hired from one major city, sent to another, and a classmate of theirs was sent to their other guy's home city. I know that somewhere I posted my "theory" on first domestic assignments either in this thread or the other DS one....Look it up, it is entertaining, and quite possible true! (I went back and found it, it is posting #163)
As for "affordable" housing, even with LEAP and locality pay it is hard to get by on a gov't salary. Unless your spouse is making good money, I wouldn't count on contributing to your savings account if you go to NY, DC, SF, etc. The good news is that MOST field offices have take home cars and gas credit cards, so your commuting expense is on Uncle Sam. I knew I guy that lived near Philly and drove to NYC and back everyday - it just depends on your priorities (4 hours a day on the turnpike for a house with a yard, or $500 more per month for an apartment where you are home for dinner and prime time TV and sleeping in past 4am). DS agents do not get any housing assistance domestically, and for your first assignment you don't even get a house-hunting trip or temporary per diem. SIDEBAR: You mentioned "UN duty" when referring to NY. I want to be sure that you understand that last time I was in NY, there is only one (1) full time DS agent assigned to the United States Mission to the United Nations (USUN) as the RSO. State treats the USUN like an Embassy (like an overseas assignment). Foreign Service personnel who work there do get a housing allowance. But 99.99% of the DS Agents assigned to NY work at the NY Field Office (NYFO), which is a domestic assignment (and it is actually located in Northern New Jersey). If assigned there, you will definitely work protection associated with foreign officials visiting the United Nations, especilaly during the U.N. General Assembly (UNGA) each year, but you will do a lot of other stuff also.
If you don't find somewhere to live on your own before you report (generally the monday after you graduate BSAC), you are out of pocket for a hotel or temporary housing until you find somewhere to live. I took a weekend trip about 3/4 of the way through training and had a day to find a place and sign a lease. I paid way too much in the long run, but I was close to the office and I didn't sink 30 or 90 days into a hotel....Keep in mind also that I think I have said before that with local OT and money I made travelling on TDY that I made very close to $90,000 my first full year at my field office, so you can make some money on this job. I challenge any other LEO (local, state or federal) to match that their rookie year!
You'll have your choice of a couple different health plans that are very affordable. You won't have as many choices as other (civil service) USG employees because you need a plan that covers you internationally. Dental coverage has NEVER been included for USG employees. After years of pressure, they are now several companies that are approved to offer dental coverage to USG employees at a group rate, but it is not subsidized at all by the USG so the premiums and co-pays are substantial. The general approach is that unless you have a few kids that need dental care or are approaching the age of braces, you are better off paying out of pocket for a yearly visit/cleaning for you and/or your spouse (or get on their plan if they have one at their job).
Your foreign-born spouse question does have merit, but I do not think it is a hard and fast policy across the board. I think it depends on your position and the country of origin of your spouse (and the CI threat level). Ask that question to your recruiter/HR POC to see what they say...

[DSS-SA]

Assuming top step starting salary of $52,667, here’s a listing of pay rates at select field offices in CONUS for FY ‘07:


Great idea to look at what you might make and try to start some initial planning, but I want to caution other readers of this thread that very few agents willl max out on their entry level salary (Jay might because he is a current FLEO, if I am not mistaken). You might want to shoot towards the middle steps if you have some applicable experience, or the lower steps if you are a recent college graduate.
Also, I mentioned the liklihood of significant OT pay at a field office, but it would be irresponsible to use my experience to create your budget. I paid $2400/mo in rent as a rookie (and my wife was unemployed for about 4 months), and it was really tight at some points, but we got by on my salary. When the OT started building up, (and she got a new job) we were able to do more socially and pay down some credit cards, but we treated it as "found" money not a "sure thing".
I don't want to sound like your Dad or your financial advisor, but I wanted to make sure our discussions continue to be based in reality, not in the "best-case scenario".

[Law-man]

I just wanted to thank all of you who have responded to the plethora of questions that I posted last week. I have some other questions, but for the next 2 or so weeks I am surviving off of 3 hours of sleep per night, as I am fast approaching the bar exam.

Thanks again,

Fred

[Jaymazik]

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[Gavilan]

For those who received a COE from the last vacancy announcement, does anyone know how many applied online, how many were invited to the in-person assessment and how many received COEs? A buddy of mine was inquiring and all I could tell him was that it was competitive as hell. In the past, I have heard that as many as 12,000 have applied to vacancy announcements, but I'm not sure how accurate this is.

[DSS-SA]

For those who received a COE from the last vacancy announcement, does anyone know how many applied online, how many were invited to the in-person assessment and how many received COEs? A buddy of mine was inquiring and all I could tell him was that it was competitive as hell. In the past, I have heard that as many as 12,000 have applied to vacancy announcements, but I'm not sure how accurate this is.

Since the invent of the online assessment the number of "applicants" has soared. I put quotes around the word applicants because everyone that applies is not serious or minimally qualified.
When I applied in 99-00, the application had to be typed and it was several pages long (fillable Adobe forms didn't exist). I was able to download a word template of the form and use a computer, but completing it was still labor-intensive, and it still had to be printed. Add to this the task of putting the proper postage on it and getting it postmarked by the deadline and you are talking about some serious work! :rolleyes: This in itself probably discouraged a lot of unmotivated people. If your true goal is to see the percentage of success of applicants, a better figure to seek would probably be how many online applicants met the minimum qualification standards and passed the assessment, and I am not sure if DS releases this data.
I can't quote you any numbers, but I will assure you it is as "competitive as hell" as you put it. If each class is made up of only 24 agents and they recruit on the national level, anyone who has received a conditional offer should be very proud of their accomplishment.

[GoBears]

Thanks for all of the helpful info everyone. I have my interview next week in Chicago. Hope it goes well! Thanks again.

[h6cayuse]

Does enyone know how long it takes to get a class date or if they tell you when you might have one. I will have my background done by the 17th of July. Is there a way to know where you are on the list after the final offer. How long after that will I know when I will go to the academy. I applied last October and it's been a pretty fast process for me but I have been reduced to a tiny apartment with a wife and two kids and an extremely boring civilian job making 25% less than I did as an Army Officer with 13 years of experience. This is not including paying for medical and dental. I got out in order to apply for this dream job. I took a large chance. I hope DSS knows that it would be extremely frustrating and demoralizing sitting around waiting for them for another year for a class date. I can't live paycheck to paycheck forever.

[Doc_STA]

I'm sorry to hear that your situation is that way, h6, but as you said - you took a large change. They will get around to you, but you made the choice to put your family on the line in this case.

Don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but...

[DSS-SA]

Does enyone know how long it takes to get a class date or if they tell you when you might have one. I will have my background done by the 17th of July. Is there a way to know where you are on the list after the final offer. How long after that will I know when I will go to the academy. I applied last October and it's been a pretty fast process for me but I have been reduced to a tiny apartment with a wife and two kids and an extremely boring civilian job making 25% less than I did as an Army Officer with 13 years of experience. This is not including paying for medical and dental. I got out in order to apply for this dream job. I took a large chance. I hope DSS knows that it would be extremely frustrating and demoralizing sitting around waiting for them for another year for a class date. I can't live paycheck to paycheck forever.

...I hope it works out for you and soon, but with respect - what were you thinking? I know of no official or community source (like this forum) that has ever endorsed or recommended that an aspiring applicant quit ANY job to APPLY for a federal LE job, especially during a time when our federal budget is so skewed towards our missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. You say the process has been pretty fast for you, but you definitely took a "large chance". With the federal budget the way it is, you quite possibly could be waiting a while, or hopefully, they might call you on July 18th. I'm not trying to pick on you, or hit you while you're down, but any frustration or demoralization that you might feel is on you. You could have applied while still an Army Officer, or sought a "less-sucky" civilian job! There are people on this forum that are waiting to apply for their second or third go-round, or have been sitting on COE's for several months so you might not find much sympathy here.
I was hired during the big "Patriot Act" push a few years ago, and the process still took a year from my application date to my start date, so hang in there. I have tried to stay positive in all my posts, but I see that I am slipping towards sarcasm here...I really hope my comments don't offend you, I just don't understand your decision-making process. Best of Luck!

[DSS-SA]

Zeoc,
First, please read back from the start of this thread; I think you will find everything that you need to know about applying (except when the next announcement will be posted). DSS is trying to fill a couple of classes now from the last time the announcement was posted that were funded for this fiscal year. The best way to find out when the announcement goes out again is to go to:

http://careers.state.gov/specialist/opportunities/secagent.html#howtoapply

At the top toolbar there is a link to sign up for email updates.

You can also check the OPM website regularly:

www.usajobs.opm.gov and search for series 1811 jobs,

or the best resousce just might be to subscribe to this forum - your fellow aspirants are sure to put the word out here when the online assessment announcement is released.

[Doc_STA]

Also, my two additional cents here to applicants would be not to even bother looking into DSS if you are married or in any sort of relationship where you want a kid-centric family. It's kept me a bachelor so far, too many hours and too much movement.

It's been said, just saying it again.

[waiguizi]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say, the hell with what your wives tell you to do. If you want DSS and you're married with a family, go for it. I'm fortunate enough to have a wife who already understands that I'm going to do what I please with my career. I reguarly go out on TDY for 6 month stretches at a time with the military. Maybe I'm just a cold hearted SOB, but I've always put my personal aspirations first. Find yourselves a wife that understand the meaning of the word sacrifice and don't come to you snivling everytime you have to pack your bags and leave. Some further advise, marry a woman from another country (if your clearance can handle it) that understands REAL opression and sacrifice and is happy just having a roof over her head and food in the fridge. Cavemen unite!

And yeah, what WERE you thinking quiting your on a wing and a prayer that you'd get a job in DSS. wow.

[h6cayuse]

Hey fellas
First, some people in this forum obviously are not recent military veterans. I don't know what dream world some are living in if you think someone will spend all their money and effort applying for this job, be accepted, and then hope that the military says they can leave by saying pretty please. If you didn't know, the current army life is 15 months away, 90 days at home. I would like to see anyone plan a schedule were you can have DSS call you within the 90 day window in order for you to resign and get out within that 90 days. By the way, a resignation takes six months. Some people must have miss Cleo for an adviser. Second, What's great about a logistics job in the Army when you are a pilot with an aerospace degree?! As an officer, the Army chooses the job for you whether you like it or not. I took the chance of getting out in order to finally go after MY needs. Not the needs of the Army. My family is a 100% behind me. I just told you my situation thinking I can find a common ground with some people, not to be given a suck it up attitude. Save that for the grunts in charge who are trying to lead combat veterans while not wearing a combat patch themselves. I just wanted to know the average amount of time between the end of your security clearance to an offer in order to plan ahead and not keep the wife and the kids in the dark. This is a first for me in the application process. Just trying to get some helpful info. I hope agents don't ever go towards something without intel. That's all I'm trying to collect.

[DSS-SA]

Hey fellas
First, some people in this forum obviously are not recent military veterans. I don't know what dream world some are living in if you think someone will spend all their money and effort applying for this job, be accepted, and then hope that the military says they can leave by saying pretty please. If you didn't know, the current army life is 15 months away, 90 days at home. I would like to see anyone plan a schedule were you can have DSS call you within the 90 day window in order for you to resign and get out within that 90 days. By the way, a resignation takes six months. Some people must have miss Cleo for an adviser. Second, What's great about a logistics job in the Army when you are a pilot with an aerospace degree?! As an officer, the Army chooses the job for you whether you like it or not. I took the chance of getting out in order to finally go after MY needs. Not the needs of the Army. My family is a 100% behind me. I just told you my situation thinking I can find a common ground with some people, not to be given a suck it up attitude. Save that for the grunts in charge who are trying to lead combat veterans while not wearing a combat patch themselves. I just wanted to know the average amount of time between the end of your security clearance to an offer in order to plan ahead and not keep the wife and the kids in the dark. This is a first for me in the application process. Just trying to get some helpful info. I hope agents don't ever go towards something without intel. That's all I'm trying to collect.

I apologize if my comments (or someone else's) put you on the defensive. If you are a 13-year veteran (of the work force), you are likely set in your ways, have leadership experience, and are comfortable with your own decisions - I would never try to tell you how to lead your life or take care of your family, but I will point out that in my six months or so posting here, I haven't seen anyone put forth any 'attitude'. If you ask questions and provide details in a public forum, someone might say something in response that you don't agree with.
In my experience, every poster on this forum (applicants, and current agents like myself) have tried to provide helpful info, and I will continue to try to do so, but maybe I (and others) misunderstood your post? I got the impression that you were transferring some responsibility for you current situation on to DS and the clearance process, but I didn't come anywhere close to saying "suck it up".
And just for clarification, you can apply, be accepted, get an offer, and then defer your start date in order to fulfill a military or other commitment. I believe completing a tour of duty or waiting for a resignation to go through would be legitimate reasons that DS would accept. If the agency goes through the time and considerable expense of vetting you, then offers you a position, they will usually work with you to get you on board. Which brings me to this point: if gathering 'intel' is/was your goal, in my experience (military, civilian, and DS) it has always been the SOP to collect the intel BEFORE you cross the "X", not after.

Good luck in getting the outcome that you desire in an acceptable time frame

[SR-25]

or maybe more internationally based stuff such as Peace Corps...

Your kidding me right?

[SR-25]

How are the DSS's Tactical Teams? Are they a full time unit, or do they do investigative work also and just tac up when the call comes in?

[DSS-SA]

How are the DSS's Tactical Teams? Are they a full time unit, or do they do investigative work also and just tac up when the call comes in?

DSS full-time tactical team is called Mobile Security Depolyments (MSD). It is a three-year assignment within DSS. Here is an official State Department description, followed by a mostly-accurate Wikipedia entry (which coincidentally mentions working with FAST)

http://www.state.gov/m/ds/rls/35726.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Security_Division

I'm sure you can find other articles and descriptions if you try a google search.

DSS also has a cadre of agents that have gone through a high-threat training course. This course is built off of elements of the MSD course but is much shorter and is designed to have an on-call group of agents available for TDY deployment into high threat environments (to do protective details/RSO-type work), but they are working in other assignments full-time (usually the domestic field offices). Most of the individual TDYers assigned to Kabul and Baghdad are a good example of how the high threat trained personnel are used.

[SR-25]

DSS full-time tactical team is called Mobile Security Depolyments (MSD). It is a three-year assignment within DSS. Here is an official State Department description, followed by a mostly-accurate Wikipedia entry (which coincidentally mentions working with FAST)

http://www.state.gov/m/ds/rls/35726.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Security_Division

I'm sure you can find other articles and descriptions if you try a google search.

DSS also has a cadre of agents that have gone through a high-threat training course. This course is built off of elements of the MSD course but is much shorter and is designed to have an on-call group of agents available for TDY deployment into high threat environments (to do protective details/RSO-type work), but they are working in other assignments full-time (usually the domestic field offices). Most of the individual TDYers assigned to Kabul and Baghdad are a good example of how the high threat trained personnel are used.

Awesome, thanks for the info!

[h6cayuse]

It is SOP in the Army to sign a voluntary indefinite contract after your 4th year as an officer. I made the decision based on that intel. Once you are a Captain, especially in a critical skill, there is no chance in getting out. On the "attitude" situation. All I asked for was a simple answer like 3 months, etc. I was not implying an attitude. It is difficult to say on a computer if someone is having a rude tone or just having a casual conversation. But per your answer you basically called me a moron for getting out and going after a dream. This country was built on taking chances and that is what I did. In position like yours or mine as a former officer, you sometimes forget the excitement and the daydreams you had before becoming what you are. That is the stage I am in. I am very anxious and excited to get started just like everyone else. On the sympathy note. It is not my fault I made all the way through to the end of the process my first time around. I am not bragging or looking for sympathy. In applying to this job I have talked to many hopefuls and people who do not have the qualifications to apply. My answer to them was to keep on striving. I also gave them as much info in the process that I could to help them. I did not say that you are this or that and basically it was your fault for not applying sooner.

[waiguizi]

Sorry if I came off as rude as well, wasn't my intention either. 13 years as a logistics officer, how DID you stomach that one. :) I'm sure the daily excercises you've dealt with in the realm of patience and motivating people to at least a level of mediocrity will serve you well wherever you choose to work in the federal government. Maybe I'm slightly cynical, best of luck to you in the application process!

[DSS-SA]

It is SOP in the Army to sign a voluntary indefinite contract after your 4th year as an officer. I made the decision based on that intel. Once you are a Captain, especially in a critical skill, there is no chance in getting out. On the "attitude" situation. All I asked for was a simple answer like 3 months, etc. I was not implying an attitude. It is difficult to say on a computer if someone is having a rude tone or just having a casual conversation. But per your answer you basically called me a moron for getting out and going after a dream. This country was built on taking chances and that is what I did. In position like yours or mine as a former officer, you sometimes forget the excitement and the daydreams you had before becoming what you are. That is the stage I am in. I am very anxious and excited to get started just like everyone else. On the sympathy note. It is not my fault I made all the way through to the end of the process my first time around. I am not bragging or looking for sympathy. In applying to this job I have talked to many hopefuls and people who do not have the qualifications to apply. My answer to them was to keep on striving. I also gave them as much info in the process that I could to help them. I did not say that you are this or that and basically it was your fault for not applying sooner.

I agree with you that written communications are sometimes difficult to interpret. What makes them easier are clear ideas, in complete sentences. So, before submitting it, I just deleted a very long response where I tried to justify my responses and interpret yours. I came to the conclusion that we have very different communication styles and that it was really pointless.
I have tried to be as respectful and articulate as possible in all of my postings, but it seems that you are not understanding the content and intent of my messages, so I will not write anything further that might fuel our "differences". Once again, I apologize if anything that I said previously put you on the defensive.


You know - screw it! I have tried to be as "diplomatic" as possible, but what I really want to say is that I think you are an arrogant, selfish punk with a sense of entitlement and a chip on his shoulder. I can't speak for any of the new hires that are waiting for their class date, but if I was in their shoes, I'd be thinking, "Damn, I hope this A-hole isn't in my class!


Good luck, and if/when I am your boss, we'll laugh about this over the drink(s) that you will buy me! ;)

Cheers,
RLTW!

[h6cayuse]

God Darn it!!! Now that was a straight answer! I like that!!! Now I will buy you that drink! If that is how I came off I will be the 1st to say it was not my intention. It was the frustration of working for a military branch that deals in maybe's or at their leisure unless you owe them money for 13 years! Half of my frustration is that this is my first week as a civilian and I am in serious culture shock. The sense of teamwork and common ground is 100% gone. This is the environment I have been used to since 17 years of age. Even through all this bull crap... I do love the Damn Army!! I have applied to FBI, DSS, and USSS. I have gotten a COE from all three but DSS has been the most straight foward, no bull crap, I'm here for you process I have gone through. The people I have dealt with have been the same. I was just waiting until you came around. :-) I hope that YOU ARE my boss and I will be proud to learn all I can from you. Tenacity, stubborness, and teamwork were my greatest assets as a scout sniper in my enlisted days and today. That is why MSP will be my ultimate goal. I am a person who likes to win, even in an argument, but I have no shame in apologizing if I came off as you said or if I was wrong.
In Jest ... Always remember... The logistics corps considers me narcissistic, but the Infantry calls me a highly motivated MotherF@##er!!!
We WILL laugh over drinks, but it will be in the hottest crappiest mudhole DSS places us in... with a fat smile!!!

[JeepingLEO]

DSS-SA's got a great point of not only if but when he is your boss! Very true in the FS world.

There will be a lot of heads bumping over decisions made...or Type A personalities going at it...but sometimes that is just the process. We will always have to work with or for someone that we may not agree with, but in the FS just remember, most of the time you will only have to deal with them for 3 years...add them to your "do not work with" list and move on after your tour. However, the key in being successful is to always keep in mind our utlimate goal or the mission at hand.

I completely agree that sometimes you have to have these "outbursts" to relieve stress and also ensure that your point of view is heard. I have had some "do you really know how to do your job" sessions with some of my previous FS bosses. However, that was just work and we'd be good friends and bounce things off each other. Even though they wrote my EER (employee evaluation reports) never once was one negative. In fact, usually after our "conversations" there was a higher respect for each other. Now don't get me wrong, picking a fight or telling your boss he is wrong just after you arrive is not always the best thing. You will learn that there is a lot of background research done before anyone bids on a job or is selected for one. Pay attention to those that have been there, done that!

Always remember that you will work with people from VERY diverse backgrounds and experiences (even if DS is the only job they have had). Learning how to overcome those differences and complete the task at hand will be a key to success. Or the idea that you may be their boss today, but they could end up being your boss tomorrow!

Not sure where I was going with this...but didn't want to be left out or be one of those saying "oh I can't believe he said that" and slowly try to slip out the door.

[h6cayuse]

Thanks Jeep!

[Beatle]

H6, I have not read this blog for a couple days but I might have some input that is interesting to your situation. I got my COE last October; they completed the clearance by the end of Dec and offered me class dates in January (with two weeks notice) and in March (with one months notice). I could not accept them because I was deployed in Iraq and my commitment was not complete, and I’ll tell you, that ****es you off while your sitting in the desert. I tried to separate early after receiving the COE but the Air Force laughed at me. As long as you have a COE in your hand, you did the right thing by getting out. Additionally, I know from talking to DS Recruitment that they were supposed to run 6 or 7 classes last fiscal year but they only ran 3 or 4 because they didn’t have a real budget. Now, due to numbers they are going to have to run some classes this fiscal year and I am happy to report that the State Dept already got their budget approved by Congress. So hopefully that money budgeted for security will buy a couple of classes near the beginning of the fiscal year, which will take care of all the people sitting with a COE in their hands. My separation date is Sept 15th and the only job I applied for is DS. Therefore, you’re not the only one playing the extreme version of the waiting game. Then again if no class materializes following my separation you'll find me surfing in San Diego until they do start a class.

[Doc_STA]

I've got four years on DSS-SA, so if I get you first, I reserve the right to beat you with a belt BEFORE buying you drinks. Sorry if my response sounded hostile, I just really don't have a perspective of "family life," being a dedicated bachelor, but I do have very opinionated views about how families "should" be handled - ie, Kids First.

If I had kids, I'd be in the private sector before you could say "Stratfor."

[Gavilan]

Doc STA and DSS SA

Have any of you been assigned to WFO yet? I'm assuming that because of the unpredictability of work days for new agents, that taking public transport is NOT an option. I'm thinking of where I will want live if I get to stay here in Washington for my first tour...or setting up a place for if/when I rotate back through here...the "burbs" are looking attractive, just because I might be able to buy a place with a drive way and not be a millionaire. Any suggestions? Where did a lot of your colleagues live?

[Doc_STA]

I've been at the WFO a few times, I"m on the west coast right now. I think it really depends what kind of money and energy you're bringing into your home life - I know a few colleauges who buy a place wherever they are when they are in CONUS, and flip it over as a real estate investment when they're moved. Personally, I've tried that, and it takes alot of energy and time, not to mention resources. I've always stuck with renting, leasing, subletting.

[DSS-SA]

Doc STA and DSS SA

Have any of you been assigned to WFO yet? I'm assuming that because of the unpredictability of work days for new agents, that taking public transport is NOT an option. I'm thinking of where I will want live if I get to stay here in Washington for my first tour...or setting up a place for if/when I rotate back through here...the "burbs" are looking attractive, just because I might be able to buy a place with a drive way and not be a millionaire. Any suggestions? Where did a lot of your colleagues live?

I STRONGLY DISCOURAGE REGULAR USE OF, OR A RELIANCE ON PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION!

First, most field offices now have enough GOV's so that every agent has one, and home to work to home use is authorized. (and you get a GOV gas credit card)
Second, every day could be different, and you might get yanked for something mid-day, and finish at night at a different location, after the bus or subway has stopped running! Or you might be pulling midnights on protection. When you finish, your GOV is right downstairs (likely parked in a No Parking Zone) awaiting your drive to your bed!
Third, real estate prices are at least 25-35% higher in neghborhoods that are walking distance to the subway (I don't think you want to take a bus every day?) Unless your spouse needs the public transportation, you don't need to pay for a convenience that you won't use (but your re-sale will benefit)
Fourth, the WFO office is in Dunn Loring (Vienna) Virginia, and is not itself walking distance to the Metro stop. You could always leave your GOV there overnight, but what if you get a call in the middle of the night that you a last-minute Protection detail has popped up and you need to be at a hotel in DC at 6:00 AM?
Fifth, Did I mention you get a free car and free gas for home to work to home use??????

As for your question on where to live, it will be based on the three rules of real estate: location, location, location! Do you want a short commute to WFO in VA (if so you will likely be renting, or buying a small condo)? Do you want a big house with a yard (to be affordable on an entry salary you will have at least a 45 minute drive to get this?). Are you in to going to clubs, or restaurants in DC in your off-hours? Will your spouse be looking for a job in DC? If you know what you want, then I can likely suggest some area/neighborhoods to look at. A lot of State employees do own houses in the DC area, so you could always try to rent one. It is a bit safer of an agreement for both parties because they know the type of person that they are doing business with.
If you buy in the greater DC area, you have a very good chance of making money on it when you decide to sell, (whether it is after two years or 10 years). The kicker is that the prices are so damn high, it is very hard to find something affordable on our salary unless you have a trust fund, family money, or you were highly successful in your career before DS. DC is a very transient locale due to the high number of military and political jobs. The housing market is somewhat insulated from the changes in the overall U.S. market because there will be a constant demand, so the risk of a market crash causing your home to depreciate are less.

[Gavilan]

Thanks for the help guys...DSS SA, I'll probably send you a PM sometime to ask for suggestions on specific locations, I live by Friendship Heights (Chevy Chase) right now...so buying in that zip code is way too $$$ for my pay grade!

[ignignokt373]

Buying out here is way to pricey in ANY zip code that's near DC. That's why I rent.

I work with guys that live in PA, WVA, and Central VA and Southern MD that drive hours to work just so that have the house. Too crazy in my book.

A couple of the guys are going to be on the road for hours because of the chem spill on 95 (Southbound lane) near Stafford.

[DSS-SA]

Buying out here is way to pricey in ANY zip code that's near DC. That's why I rent.

I work with guys that live in PA, WVA, and Central VA and Southern MD that drive hours to work just so that have the house. Too crazy in my book.

A couple of the guys are going to be on the road for hours because of the chem spill on 95 (Southbound lane) near Stafford.

Which brings up a good point. if you are going to live in suburban VA, I highly recommend that you do not live south of DC where Interstate 95 is your primary commuting route. It is bumper to bumper both ways every day, and gets worse in the summer as people travel for vacation.

[exeproagent]

Any advice, Im taking my oral and written test this monday in DC?

[Gavilan]

If you do well enough to get to the final BEX panel:
-Be confident but not cocky
-Try to be as concise as possible when answering questions because they will not give you all day to answer them
-Don't freeze up when they try and turn the heat on you...be calm and show that you can exercise good judgement...show that you are logical in arriving at good conclusions.
-It at all possible, convey your understanding of diplomacy and dealing with "sensitive" diplomatic situations.

That's my experience from taking the test twice (and passing the second time) ;)

[DSS-SA]

If you do well enough to get to the final BEX panel:
-Be confident but not cocky
-Try to be as concise as possible when answering questions because they will not give you all day to answer them
-Don't freeze up when they try and turn the heat on you...be calm and show that you can exercise good judgement...show that you are logical in arriving at good conclusions.
-It at all possible, convey your understanding of diplomacy and dealing with "sensitive" diplomatic situations.

That's my experience from taking the test twice (and passing the second time) ;)

All good advice, but I would like to add:
I have said this several times before - DSS is looking for future diplomats that can be trained as Special Agents. It might be necessary to play down some of your experience if it is predominantly military or law-enforcement related. Don't let them think you are one-dimensional, because they will not accept you, even if you are the best "executive protection agent" they've ever seen if they think that that is all you have to offer...
Good Luck.

[Doc_STA]

Read everything that you can about current events starting this weekend, and keep on keeping track of it until/if you can get to your BEX.

[Gibbmusic]

All good advice, but I would like to add:
I have said this several times before - DSS is looking for future diplomats that can be trained as Special Agents. It might be necessary to play down some of your experience if it is predominantly military or law-enforcement related. Don't let them think you are one-dimensional, because they will not accept you, even if you are the best "executive protection agent" they've ever seen if they think that that is all you have to offer...
Good Luck.

Excellent point here, pay attention to anything DSS-SA tells you. One of the questions from the final part of my BEX was a scenario-type question. I answered it from a law enforcement / security point-of-view and thought I had given an excellent answer. As it turns out, I did give an excellent answer in the eyes of the DSS agent, however the other interviewer thought otherwise. Remember that you are likely to be interviewed by at least one non-DSS person who will likely be judging you PRIMARILY on your diplomatic potential. In other words, play your strengths but make sure you think carefully about all the ramifications of your answer before you commit.

Good luck, wear deodorant.

Gibbmusic

[exeproagent]

Thanks to all I will let everyone know when I return Tuesday...

[Doc_STA]

One other peice of advice - I've sat on one BEX, and I took a three pronged view: "What does this person bring from an intellectual and problem solving standpoint?," "What does this person bring to the law enforcement standpoint, not only in physical prowess, but attitude?," and "What HAS this person brought to their community?"

For the individual I sat on, I STRONGLY looked for community serving skills, which play both into an applicant's ability to fit in with our own family of agents, easily moving from FO to embassy to protection detail to another FO; AND into their ability to relate to the cultures of other countries.

Someone who can find a commonality with their community by getting involved with a fraternal organization, such as A/F&AM, Elks, Rotary, etc, a church outreach, a city council, a chamber of commerce, has an easier time being flexable about forging strong ties to those around them in their working environments. My further $0.02.

[penfold753]

I just spoke with the Washington office and am scheduled for the written and oral examination at the end of August. Having read through most of these posts, i have a few questions, some specific and some general.

This is my first time testing and am not entirely sure what to expect (I know the format, but what about atmosphere?). A number of posts have given me good pointers for question-answering, but what about the tone of the oral examination? Should I expect to be put under the microscope?

Does anyone know of any materials that I might use to better prepare myself?

Finally, and this might be a stupid question, but what kind of attire is expected? Is this a suit-event or is a shirt and tie acceptable? (I haven't received the confirmation email yet so maybe these questions would be covered in that)

Any info would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

[DSS-SA]

Finally, and this might be a stupid question, but what kind of attire is expected? Is this a suit-event or is a shirt and tie acceptable? (I haven't received the confirmation email yet so maybe these questions would be covered in that)

Any info would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

I will let the recent applicants answer your questions about the test and the environment, but I must chime in on the attire question! I am not a fashion guru by any means, but in my book, the only time that an adult should wear a tie without a coat is if he or she is waiting tables!

I would recommend that you wear a suit - and that you start getting used to the reality that as an agent this is what you will be wearing most of your career. If you think it is uncomfortable now, wait until it is the middle of summer and you have several items of equipment strapped to your belt, and you might even be wearing a ballistic-resistant vest under your shirt!
Back to the point, for interviewing purposes (in any "professional" field) a suit is the standard. A coat and tie would look like a partial effort (plese don't wear a blue blazer and khaki pants! - you may as well be wearing a uniform!), and a shirt and tie would look like a Catholic school boy who hasn't figured out the real world yet. Even if you get there and one of the panel members are wearing slacks and a polo shirt (which is extremely unlikely), he already has his job, you are trying to get one, so pull out all the stops.

While we're on the topic, here is my DSS fashion primer: Most USG LE agencies "prefer" conservative styles so as to not stand out, or draw too much attention (think entry-level banker, not NBA Superstar). Traditional, single-breasted, two or three button (important because as an agent, you will never button your suit coat again), dark suits are best. (Pin stripes or subtle patterns are fine). If you are changing careers or already have a few suits, keep in mind that your girth around your waist will change with the addition of equipment, so alterations or replacement might be necessary. A neutral shirt (off white, blue) without a bold pattern and silk tie will be the norm. Another tip about shirts - you might want to minimize your use of truly white shirts or colored shirts with white collars and cuffs. You will sweat alot at work and your shirts will have unremoveable "ring around the collar" and dirty cuffs in no time. And while I am on my soap box, please don't wear your Hush Puppies from 9th grade with your brand new Brooks Brothers suit. An inexpensive suit can look great with nice shoes, a belt and a tie, and conversely, an Armani suit wouldn't even be noticed with old, worn out, scuffed shoes, and a non-matching belt - it is the entire package that makes you look professional, confident, and "comfortable" in your element. I suggest a leather dress shoe with a rubber sole that looks leather. Many brands are now making great looking shoes that also support your feet for those 18 hour days. They're likely going to be in the $150 range, but at a dollar a day, that is almost six months of comfort! You'll need thick leather dress belts (in the same colors as your shoes). Some holster manufacturers make reinforced belts, but you can also get by with a sturdy dress belt purchased from a traditional store, especially if you use a paddle holster. To help your belt last longer, and to take some stress off of your suit pants and your hips, I strongly suggest you buy some "Perry" suspenders. http://www.beltoutlet.com/perworsus.html These are made to slide onto a belt (not clip on, whick leaves teeth marks). They are purely functional, not a fashion accessory like braces that button into your suit pants. I have worn these since day one when I am doing protection; they really help balance out the weight distribution of your gear, and transfer some of the weight up to your shoulders. They keep your pants from sagging, and help with the process of going #2 while fully geared up!
Continuing on with accessories, please don't wear neon colored wrap-around Oakley-style sunglasses with professional attire. Sunglasses are very important, and protecting the sides of your eyes are important too, but please try and find a middle ground between what you wear while fishing on the weekend, and the expensive designer glasses that offer very little protection (or concealment) of your eyes.
Get a single breasted rain coat that is knee length or shorter. Longer trench coats get in the way getting out of a vehicle and the belts and extra fabric are sometimes problematic. Don't go cheap here, because if you are posted outside, and it is raining, you won't be holding an umbrella! This is when you might want some thin rubber over-shoes also. Your feet will be soaked and your shoes likely ruined after about 30 minutes in a driving rain standing outside.
Lastly, this is all just advice, gleaned from experience and observation - none of this is policy. If you want to push the envelope on your own, be my guest, but you might get called on the carpet by a supervisor, be the laughing stock of the field office, or worse yet, you'll always be posted in the emergency stairwell because you look like a train wreck and the detail (or the protectee) doesn't want to be embarrassed - it is your choice!

[penfold753]

DSS-SA--
Thanks for you quick and straightforward reply, it was most helpful. The more I thought about it, I figured a suit would be appropriate but I thought it would be better to ask than make an embarrassing assumption. Your tips on specifically what style suit and attire in general are very appreciated.

I have been re-reading through these posts and finding plenty of helpful information, but I'm sure I'll have more questions as my preperation intensifies approaching the interview date. Any additions tips would certainly be welcomed.

Thanks again.

[DSS-SA]

The last that I heard, the physical fitness program requirements were:
It is mandatory to PASS both the DS and FLETC fitness tests in order to graduate BSAC. After that, the language, and the administration of the program gets a little fuzzy... It is then mandatory to PARTICIPATE (i.e. show up, and do one push up, one sit up, and take one step in the run) annually to take the physical fitness assessment (if you happen to be somewhere where it is given like a domestic field office). The only time I think I have had to take the test (post-BSAC) was at the beginning of the RSO Course. I think that it will eventually be enforced, but they have had a difficult time establishing the testing methods and standards, so it is kind of in flux. It is hard to believe that a federal law enforcement agency that has been around so long, with such a demanding lifestyle did not have a physical fitness program as part of it's regulations until about three years ago!
I did a little further research/clarification, and I received an email saying that my scores for this quarter had not yet been reported, so this led me to the realization that the program was now in full effect with the new standards.
What I found was: on March 14, 2007, Ambassador Griffin introduced the Physical Fitness Program for Diplomatic Security. This program requires all DS Agents (2501s and 1811s) to be participants and complete quarterly fitness tests in accordance with 16 FAM 619. The test consists of a 1.5-mile run, push-ups (1 minute), and sit-ups (1 minute).

So, as I said previously, the FAM requires participation and completion, but meeting a pass/fail standard is not part of the program. (NOTE: in my post above I said it was an annual requirement, but it is a quarterly requirement) I located the chart that is used to "track" and "assess" the results. The new charts have been adjusted for age and gender, the older chart, that can be found on the FOIA web site here http://169.253.2.210/masterdocs/16FAM/16M0610.PDF made no such differentiations, which was ridiculous. The new chart has been published internally in the State Department FAM, but since I can't find it on the FOIA website, I'm not going to publish it here - but it is very similar to what I've seen for the military/other agencies. Bottom line is that if you are in "average" shape for your sex and age you should be in/near the 50-60th percentiles. If you are in the high 90th percentiles you are among the elite athletes in the U.S., and if you are in the teens, you are likely a couch potato!!!!!

Remember that FLETC has its own test called the Physical Efficiency Battery (PEB). It is MANDATORY to pass this to graduate FLETC, thus it is mandatory to pass it to become a DSS SA! Here's all you need to know about the PEB: http://www.fletc.gov/training/programs/physical-techniques-division/requirement-documents/physical-efficiency-battery-peb.html
(HINT: the one area that seems to really challenge people, regardless of their abilities on the other tests, is the Sit and Reach, so start stretching now!)

[DSS-SA]

I just re-read my "fashion" post above and want to add a bit of info before someone asks:
In a field office environment, Management will likey allow you to work in casual clothes. This usually consists of pants and a collared shirt (and some sort of jacket/concealment). Some likely restrictions are: no jeans or cargo pants; no un-tucked shirts to serve as concealment; no baseball caps inside the office; no tennis shoes, etc - you get the idea (caveat: most of these restrictions would not apply if you are participating on an arrest team, surveillance operation, going to the shooting range, etc). Also, the standards might be higher if your office is co-located in a Federal Building, or with other State/DS offices.

[Jaymazik]

.......................

[Jaymazik]

..............

[DSS-SA]

Most of us, myself included, were dressed in street clothes or 511s and polos.

This reminds me of one class at FLETC - it was only one hour long, and I don't even know what the title/topic of the class was, but there was a segment about the "1811 uniform" that was pretty funny. The instructor was wearing khaki Royal Robbins, A polo shirt, nylon belt and had a pocket knife clipped to his pocket. The punchline was that he was in "plain clothes" and would not be picked out by the average citizen and/or criminal:)
Anyone that has ever been to a task force or event planning meeting like Jaymazik describes knows that this in the unofficial uniform of choice for "Feds".
Don't get me wrong, I bust out the Royal Robbins during training or in harsh environments, but if you are weaing them in Downtown, USA, you will be "made", or made fun of, because they are definitely designed for function, not fashion. Don't even get me started on the vests....;)

[Gibbmusic]

While we're talking about equipment and uniforms, I have a quick question. Has DS joined the 21st century (or at least late 20th) in the area of radio communications? The reason I ask is that I recently assisted some US Marshals and ICE guys with a fugitive takedown in my jurisdiction and I was appalled that some of them were still carrying the 5 lb. brick radios. I've noticed in the photo galleries that the DS agents have the fancy earpiece and sleeve-mics that the USSS made so famous...but I couldn't help but wonder if they were attached to a big brick of a radio hidden under the jacket.

Gibbmusic

[JeepingLEO]

While we're talking about equipment and uniforms, I have a quick question. Has DS joined the 21st century (or at least late 20th) in the area of radio communications? The reason I ask is that I recently assisted some US Marshals and ICE guys with a fugitive takedown in my jurisdiction and I was appalled that some of them were still carrying the 5 lb. brick radios. I've noticed in the photo galleries that the DS agents have the fancy earpiece and sleeve-mics that the USSS made so famous...but I couldn't help but wonder if they were attached to a big brick of a radio hidden under the jacket.

Gibbmusic

Not to get too much into OPSEC (then again you can probably just do a search on radio procurement contracts), but I will say that my familiarity with the DoS radio program is that a lot of money is spent replacing/updating their radios each year (this is for the overseas radio program, I'm sure DSS-SA could say whether they have the "new" stuff in the field as well). The model purchased are very new and as high tech as most 21st century police departments...

When I was at the sheriff's office (prior employement) the old timers actually hated giving up their old moto bricks. The reason given that if you are at a scene radio'ing back the situation and someone makes a quick move (what's in your hand? a radio) you hit them with one of the "bricks" the battery never fell off because it actually slid on and locked into position; whereas, on the new MTS or XTS or other Moto radios, the battery simply "clicks" on to the back and if you drop it or ... ahem... hit someone with it, the battery falls off and now your SOL if you need backup. However, the brick is defeinitely not for concealment!