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matt302vu
09-03-2006, 11:07 AM
First of all I wanted to state that I work in the jail and not out on the road. But I was hoping to get some information that could help us some. We have a lot of hispanics come through our facility...go figure...anyway a lot of them have ID cards that are issued by companies in California. They aren't employee ID cards but they are companies that issue state IDs? I haven't really heard about it besides seeing these cards. I was wondering if they are valid ID or purchased fakes. Some look pretty offical while others are pasted on the front of phone cards. If anyone has any information please let me know.

blustar
09-03-2006, 11:57 AM
my guess is that they are check cashing cards, and in that case not valid id. It's not neccessarily the guy's name, but rather the name he gets paid under. but sometimes you take what you can get and it can lead you to the truth

matt302vu
09-03-2006, 12:02 PM
These that I have seen actually say "California Drivers Licence." Then on the back they say "Not a valid government ID."

Seventy2002
09-03-2006, 12:08 PM
Some look pretty offical while others are pasted on the front of phone cards. If anyone has any information please let me know.

If it's pasted on a phone card, it has some value, at least until the minutes are used up.

If the document isn't issued by a government it has no official status.

ArmouredSainT
09-03-2006, 01:02 PM
They are bogus! Companies make these with information provided totally by the purchaser. I used to get many from the truck stop lot lizards showing a tennessee ID card, but has the name of who they wish to be for that day...atleast until the FTA warrants come out then they are a new person...

"Hold For Positive ID" i'd say....

pkagel
09-03-2006, 01:13 PM
CA DL
http://www.deschu.com/cadl2.jpg

CA ID
http://www.idlid.com/images/california_non_gov_id.jpg

matt302vu
09-03-2006, 01:14 PM
Those are the ID cards I'm talking about. Most of them are from California but I have had a few Indiana ones too.

Blackie T.
09-03-2006, 02:01 PM
We're inundated with those in South Florida. You can buy them at half the stores in any town with a sizeable Mexican or Central American population. They are meaningless. The Mexican consulate also issues ID cards, but I don't think it takes much proof to obtain one.

ICE-MAN
09-03-2006, 02:03 PM
Beware of the fake Mexico IDs, they have ID's that say Mexico on it but there fake. You know because on it, it says, Estados Unidos de Mexico, "United Stated of Mexico.", that just floors me. Mexico is a federation and the cards say they are issued by there embassy which is also false. Most of those cards dont have there real names the real cards that the Mexican people do carry are there voter registration card. I have only seen once that a Mex gave me a fake DL.

But its easy for me to distinguish and learn because I speak spanish and I just talk to them. 99.9% of the time they tell me the truth.

satpak77
09-03-2006, 02:22 PM
First of all I wanted to state that I work in the jail and not out on the road. But I was hoping to get some information that could help us some. We have a lot of hispanics come through our facility...go figure...anyway a lot of them have ID cards that are issued by companies in California. They aren't employee ID cards but they are companies that issue state IDs? I haven't really heard about it besides seeing these cards. I was wondering if they are valid ID or purchased fakes. Some look pretty offical while others are pasted on the front of phone cards. If anyone has any information please let me know.

I have dealt with Mexicans extensively both as a result of being a BP agent and now being an 1811 with DEA for over ten years. Here is my 2 cents. Other people are out there which know much more than I do on this, but here is some info....

1. The primary "ID Card" actually issued by an official Mexican body is the Voting Card or Credencial de Votar. It will have the full name, DOB, and home address (on file when the card was issued...) on the card.

2. REAL Mexican drivers licenses will have a hologram type security seal on them. Yes, true. We all know about the "open borders" but never-the-less, real Mexican DL's do have security features.

3. Fake ID cards can be cross checked via running NCIC/NLETS/etc on the name and date of birth.

4. If it looks fake, it usually is.

Blackdog F4i
09-03-2006, 04:18 PM
I run into a lot of Mex ID cards, but only a few Mexical DL or Voter Reg. cards. Good to know about the holograms. I will make sure I check for those the next time. Since we don't have any way to run drivers status on Mexican DL's I usually just run NCIC and let them roll.

Most of our illegals don't have any ID and I hook them whenever possible so they get printed and in the system.

BTW, ALL valid Indiana ID and Driver Licenses are the "credit card" type now and have the Indiana Seal watermarked on the lamination. They also ALL have the bar code on the back.

nebraska_deputy
09-03-2006, 06:19 PM
There is a place here in Nebraska called the Counselor of Mexico and they issue these ID cards they are no substitue for a real ID, but they are very helpful. Several business in the Omaha area use these ID cards to cash checks and substitute this for an ID. If they have one of these cards you can contact the Counselor of Mexico agency (the numbers on the card) and they can give you more information about the person. From what I'm told there are only a few of these agency's in the United States. I had only called the Counselor of Mexico one time and that was to check an arrest brought in by another agency for other names. I don't have the number off hand, but if someone needed the number they could email me and I could try to find it again.

satpak77
09-03-2006, 10:45 PM
In addition, many states in Mexico D.L.'s have a image of the persons fingerprint on the back and have a "credit card swipe" black mark on them also.

Like I said earlier, real Mexican D.L.'s have semi-decent security features and do not look homemade.

** I actually have a real Mexican D.L. by the way, and took a driving test for it.... :)

fahrenheit
09-04-2006, 12:42 AM
In Chicago we also have a Mexican Consul and Mexicans can get a card called a Matricula Consular or something similar... it is supposedly a valid ID from the Mexican government but I've never seen two that look exactly the same. They also have no photo on them and I have no idea what the requirements are to get one.

I've just always been trained that if they give you a Mexican ID and don't have anything else on them, run their prints. I've spent way too many hours waiting on NATMS responses.

ejay
09-04-2006, 01:22 AM
You mean this could be a fake?

http://www.nukeisrael.com/New%20images/mexifornia.jpg

cimcop1
09-04-2006, 01:40 AM
Alfonso Gadoya in "The Treasure Of Sierra Madre" 1948 Academy award for best picture! "Badges? We don't got no badges! We don't got to show you no stinkin badges!"

yellowreef
09-04-2006, 02:03 AM
Beware of the fake Mexico IDs, they have ID's that say Mexico on it but there fake. You know because on it, it says, Estados Unidos de Mexico, "United Stated of Mexico.", that just floors me. Mexico is a federation and the cards say they are issued by there embassy which is also false.

Maybe you should do some light reading on the subject. Neither the US or Mexico have the market cornered on the whole "United States" thing. And Mexico's official name IS Estados Unidos Mexicanos...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico

Also, what does being a federation have to do with anything? We are also a federation and we have embassies... :confused:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/federation

Not picking on your post and I agree most of the cards are false, but I guess I just didn't catch your point on the whole first part there.

satpak77
09-04-2006, 01:54 PM
Maybe you should do some light reading on the subject. Neither the US or Mexico have the market cornered on the whole "United States" thing. And Mexico's official name IS Estados Unidos Mexicanos...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico

Also, what does being a federation have to do with anything? We are also a federation and we have embassies... :confused:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/federation

Not picking on your post and I agree most of the cards are false, but I guess I just didn't catch your point on the whole first part there.

To add to this

MEXICAN D.L.

I presently am holding my personal Mexican DL, which is real and legit. The top of it says GOBIERNO DEL ESTADO DE (insert Mexican State name) and then under it it says DIRECCION DE VIALIDAD Y TRANSPORTES.

Then my full name, address, date of issuance, and expiration (4 years duration). My photo is on the right side of the front, and on the bottom is my blood type. Above my photo is AUTOMOVILISTA. In very small letters is the printed name of the Director of Vialidad y Transportes.

Nowhere on this legit document is my DOB - FYI.

On the BACK is a box titled Firma del Conductor with my signature. On the right side of the back is my fingerprint. On the bottom is a bar-code type coding.

MEXICAN PASSPORT

I am presently holding a real and legit Mexican passport. On the cover, it states ESTADOS UNIDOS MEXICANOS.

Opening it to the "photo page" is big black letters stating ESTADOS UNIDOS MEXICANOS.

Then it has full first name and last name of the holder, along with birthdate and other information.

In addition, by turning the photo page in the light, I see a hologramic seal in the middle of the page. This is a newer Mexican passport, issued this year, so unknown if older ones have this.

"Estados Unidos Mexicanos" is a correct term, and is on most all documents issued by the Mexican government. It is NOT reason to believe a doc is fake in and of itself. FYI

ICE-MAN
09-04-2006, 03:30 PM
Ok thanks for the FYI that why we have these posts.

So do MEX embassies give I.D's with there U.S address. I recall the MEX voter registration card does not have United MEX on the top of it.

satpak77
09-04-2006, 04:00 PM
Ok thanks for the FYI that why we have these posts.

So do MEX embassies give I.D's with there U.S address.

Mexican Consulates in the various large cities serve as "safety nets" for Mexican citizens who may be in trouble. Could be under arrest, could have had an uncle die and they need help getting the body to Mexico, etc etc.

USA has them in Cancun and Mazatlan (amongst others) to help drunk spring breakers when they get tossed in jail.

Do they issue IDs with US addresses? I do not know. You could call them and ask. They are not bad people, so they take the side of their citizens, so what? Surprise surprise. If the Mexican cops called the US consulate and said an American is in jail, surprise surprise, the US Consulate will do whats best in the interest of the American, not the Mexican cops.

I still meet cops today that personally "hate" the Mexican Consulate for the above reason. Give me a break. That they protect their citizens should not be rocket science or headline news.

There IS for a confirmed fact, a "registry" of Mexicans living in the US (who have chosen to do so) in the respective Consulate areas, say Miami for example. This is the same thing as retired Americans living in Lake Chapala, they (if they want), can "register" at the US Consulate in Guadalajara and provide their names, family members, USA points of contact, etc.

If retiree Grandpa is in Lake Chapala, and has a heart attack, and has his US passport in his pocket, and nothing else, the Mexican authorities can reach out to the Consulate and try to see if they can help. Sure, we have him registered. We need to contact his oldest son, Jim Smith, in Memphis, to see what they want to do.

If he is NOT registered, then they start from ground zero, with only his passport. Much harder.

So the Mexican consulates have a similar system, for similar reasons.

satpak77
09-04-2006, 04:17 PM
Ok thanks for the FYI that why we have these posts.

I recall the MEX voter registration card does not have United MEX on the top of it.

I personally have a legit Mexican Voting Card in my hands.

In the top left corner, is the symbol of the Mexican government, an Eagle or a bird of something, and on the top, is ESTADOS UNIDOS MEXICANOS.

In black letters, it says INSTITUTO FEDERAL ELECTORAL, or Mexican Voting Commision. This is pronounced "EE-fee", for IFE. Like "beefey" as in "beefey hamburger" but without the B.

You would ask for this card by asking if they have their IFE Card:

"Tienes tu credencial EE-FEE?" (OR) "Tienes tu credencial para votar?"

It displays the full name of the person, address at time of registration (usually age 18 or 19), and DOB. The DOB is not obvious, but its there

Go to the line that says CLAVE DE ELECTOR, then you will see 5 or 6 or 7 letters. Then some numbers. The FIRST TWO numbers are the YEAR, the NEXT TWO are the MONTH, the next TWO are the DAY for DOB, all in 2-digit format.

Example

CLAVE DE ELECTOR......................ABCDEF7801058739M99

The DOB is YR/MM/DA..................ABCDEF7801058739M99

January 5, 1978.

The numbers and letters after that are unknown to me.

The IFE Card is the BEST form of ID for Mexicans, as they are obtained at age 18 or 19 and 99% of the time, the person has no reason to lie or be fraudulent when providing their information. In addition, it helps comfirm Mexican citizenship. It DOES NOT confirm/deny legal INS status.

Even in 2006, post 9-11, ALOT of confusion exists on docs and legal/illegal status. When in doubt, call ICE or Border Patrol if you have questionable docs in your possession. THEY are the experts. Not DEA, Not FBI, not the CIA. Call ICE and or Border Patrol.

satpak77
09-04-2006, 04:29 PM
To help you with Mexican Voting Card

http://www.ife.org.mx/portal/site/ife/menuitem.7d2ceea1fef896d841695c16100000f7/;jsessionid=E8L4Hzpy0ID4eP413lHnJcwOa1TUniGkLlF7ES X2Ve81Sand2KCA!6100239527d2ceea1fef896d841695c1610 0000f7#elementos

Click on the images for more info.

Pop Quiz - Can anyone tell me the Name, Address, and DOB of the person in the image?

"Colonia" is "COL" which means neighborhood or suburban area. If he lived in Dallas, Texas but neighborhood as Oak Cliff, then it would be Colonia Oak Cliff.

Or pretty much like that anyway.

County Mountie
09-05-2006, 02:09 AM
Due to the fact that we are unable to verify any Mexican DL's, or any of the information on them, anyone who has one and doesn't have a US Drivers license gets cited/arrested.

Blackdog F4i
09-05-2006, 08:49 AM
WOW, so how does that work since a Mexican Citizen can legally drive in the US with a Mexican License.

Last time I checked the burden of proof was on the state and not the defendant. If you can't prove the license is NOT valid then how can you make a legal arrest?

ICE-MAN
09-05-2006, 02:57 PM
To help you with Mexican Voting Card

http://www.ife.org.mx/portal/site/ife/menuitem.7d2ceea1fef896d841695c16100000f7/;jsessionid=E8L4Hzpy0ID4eP413lHnJcwOa1TUniGkLlF7ES X2Ve81Sand2KCA!6100239527d2ceea1fef896d841695c1610 0000f7#elementos

Click on the images for more info.

Pop Quiz - Can anyone tell me the Name, Address, and DOB of the person in the image?

"Colonia" is "COL" which means neighborhood or suburban area. If he lived in Dallas, Texas but neighborhood as Oak Cliff, then it would be Colonia Oak Cliff.

Or pretty much like that anyway.


The name is: Margarita Gomez-Velazquez

The rest is too Blurry.

ICE-MAN
09-05-2006, 02:59 PM
WOW, so how does that work since a Mexican Citizen can legally drive in the US with a Mexican License.

Last time I checked the burden of proof was on the state and not the defendant. If you can't prove the license is NOT valid then how can you make a legal arrest?

If they have a Visa with them or a Passport that is valid then their drivers license is accepted in the U.S.

satpak77
09-05-2006, 04:56 PM
WOW, so how does that work since a Mexican Citizen can legally drive in the US with a Mexican License.

Last time I checked the burden of proof was on the state and not the defendant. If you can't prove the license is NOT valid then how can you make a legal arrest?

Blackdog I am with you on that one. I agree 100%

bird1
09-05-2006, 07:47 PM
WOW, so how does that work since a Mexican Citizen can legally drive in the US with a Mexican License.

Last time I checked the burden of proof was on the state and not the defendant. If you can't prove the license is NOT valid then how can you make a legal arrest? when a person from mexico or any country who has a valid d/l from there country and are here legaly i.e with some sort of visa they can legaly drive providing they obtain an international d/l which basicly is a translation of their d/l. so when u have a t/s they should be showing u both of them and of course the insurance.

satpak77
09-05-2006, 11:57 PM
when a person from mexico or any country who has a valid d/l from there country and are here legaly i.e with some sort of visa they can legaly drive providing they obtain an international d/l which basicly is a translation of their d/l. so when u have a t/s they should be showing u both of them and of course the insurance.

is spelling a requirement to comply with the laws....

bird1
09-06-2006, 12:56 AM
what are u the grammar police? im sorry i forgot the only one who can spell around here is you :rolleyes:

County Mountie
09-06-2006, 10:13 AM
when a person from mexico or any country who has a valid d/l from there country and are here legaly i.e with some sort of visa they can legaly drive providing they obtain an international d/l which basicly is a translation of their d/l. so when u have a t/s they should be showing u both of them and of course the insurance.

Exactly, however, all the ones I've found never have had any other documents and are usually here illegally, working in the U.S. usually using someone else's social security number. the guy I had last week had absolutely no id with him, only a paycheck stub with a ssn. he claimed to have lost his wallet and only had a mexican driver's license which wasn't in his possession. I always arrest people like that, if they really have the documentation make them prove it in court. All I can go on is what I have at that point. if they have a mexican dl, they get cited so that way they have to prove that its legitimate.

kannahspapa
09-10-2006, 11:45 AM
One of my patrolman just picked one up for DUI an hour ago. He gave us a fake name and then another officer found the fake ID on the ground outside the jail. It put him 20 years older than he really is and has permanent resident card printed across the top. He said that he paid $1000.00 for it from a subject in Florida. It looks extremely like a legit card. Same quality as our state drivers license. He in with a class 4 felony along with the other charges now. :cool: