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View Full Version : Catching drunk drivers outside of a bar



badge1024
08-27-2006, 07:12 PM
The logical thing to do would be to know all the closing times at all of the local bars within your town and then watch as the drunken idiots stumble to their vehicle, then catch then down the road. I have seen this happen before. But lately, unfortunately, at all the places around this town and others, I see nobody being followed. Obviously its bad for business if the bar gets known as a hot spot for police activity and then the bar owner goes complaining to the chief for the bad business but its still illegal. Not to meantion, a law should be passed punishing the valet driver when he gets the car and hands the keys over to an obviously intoxicated driver. And before all of you start questioning "oh yeah...well...well...how do you know theyre not being pulled over? huh?"....the answer is, I know the bar owners, I know the police officers, I know the arrests made for that night. All im saying is, you could be adding a couple thousand dollars to your department nightly were there to be strict enforcement and obvious police presence. I do have to give it up for the officers with 100+ DUI arrests per year. Like Chicago Police Officer John Haleas who in 2005 made 374 DUI arrests and IL State Trooper Gregory T. Hart who in 2005 alone made 217 DUI arrests. Keep up the excellent work.

texaschickeee
08-27-2006, 07:20 PM
Most people know that in housotn the closing time is usally 2 am to 3 am.
we have something called "the richmond strip". the street richmond, (DOH) has many many many bars, clubs and the like on it. All the cops have to do is drive up and down that street many times dring the shift and there is really no shortage of drunks there. its the entire block area, (with in the four streets) and what not for them to catch drunks.

The system really has been very nice to drunk drives whom are lucky enough to not kill or mame someone on their first or second offense.

Illegal nothing. fair game is fair game. Its just PI instead of DWI if they are walking to the car.

badge1024
08-27-2006, 07:29 PM
well thats good, at least something working to the officers advantage and against the criminals is the updated cost of getting a DUI, with court costs and insurance premiums in the end its something usually between $5,000-$15,000 Dollars...I love that

texaschickeee
08-27-2006, 07:35 PM
In texas, they now include fees that help offset medical cost, they have to pay to hve their DL reinstated and probation, court and the like fees.

first offense is 1000. re instate
second 2500 to reinstate
third is 5000, and then you add on the probation cost, time off work and what not to do community sevice, courts and all, the drunk loses big time

and thers always the droping of the insurance that is wonder, as you said. I had a client that was denied his insurance to cover his wreck. There was a claus that he ethier didnt read, or didnt know about.

"insurance is null and void if you are impaired, you are driving in a reckless manner (not speeding) and/ or you have a medical condition that you are being treated for and you are not taking your medication.(such as seizars or diabetes).

He had a really really good insuarance brand that had that claus. it was a national name..... :D
thus, the car repairs he is being sued for now.....

irishlad2nv
08-27-2006, 10:55 PM
Badge..once again you have not researched before starting a thread. There are Laws and Several Case Laws where a LEO can not "sit on a bar"...meaning they can not pull everyone over when pulling out of a bar at closing time. Hect I don't even drink, but go to bars to either shoot pool, listen to a good band, but when it's 2am I should get pulled over?

Badge, I hate to seem like I am harsh on you, but you have to realize that thier are not enough LE out there to catch every drunk. Yes it would be nice if there were, such as if there enough to catch the rapists, drug dealers, etc...bottom line is, Agencies do not have enough resources to catch all the drunks. Now most states if not all of them are moving to the .08 law, which is a thumbs up for LE and easier to make a DUI case, however those Officers you mentioned, they may have gotten 317 DUI's in one year, but how many convictions were there? Probably 50% if not less, so then those 50% who got off are going to be caught a second/third time, etc...

I don't know what part of the country you reside in, but most departments have some sort of DUI Enforcement, etc. But...when it's a small town with only a handful of cops, do they need a DUI or to answer calls that night? Thats a sensitive subject in itself.

Don't base all of your opinions on LE from where you live, since you mention all the time what you think of the Cops there.

If you are wanting to get more invloved, do so. It won't harm you and it may do you and some other people some good. Just food for thought.

detsarg
08-28-2006, 12:30 AM
The logical thing to do would be to know all the closing times at all of the local bars within your town and then watch as the drunken idiots stumble to their vehicle, then catch then down the road. I have seen this happen before. But lately, unfortunately, at all the places around this town and others, I see nobody being followed. Obviously its bad for business if the bar gets known as a hot spot for police activity and then the bar owner goes complaining to the chief for the bad business but its still illegal. Not to meantion, a law should be passed punishing the valet driver when he gets the car and hands the keys over to an obviously intoxicated driver. And before all of you start questioning "oh yeah...well...well...how do you know theyre not being pulled over? huh?"....the answer is, I know the bar owners, I know the police officers, I know the arrests made for that night. All im saying is, you could be adding a couple thousand dollars to your department nightly were there to be strict enforcement and obvious police presence. I do have to give it up for the officers with 100+ DUI arrests per year. Like Chicago Police Officer John Haleas who in 2005 made 374 DUI arrests and IL State Trooper Gregory T. Hart who in 2005 alone made 217 DUI arrests. Keep up the excellent work.

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Bing_Oh
08-28-2006, 01:41 AM
Irishlad's correct in all regards, here.

Firstly, let's clarify something...are you advocating that officers permit a visibly intoxicated person to get into a motor vehicle and drive away, just so they can arrest that person for OVI? And what, may I ask, would be your opinion if that intoxicated driver were to kill someone in a crash before the officer could make the traffic stop? Woudln't the officer be at fault for not trying to stop the person from driving in the first place? Wouldn't it be more in-line with the duties of law enforcement to PREVENT the person from driving in the first place, even if it meant that there wouldn't be an arrest?

Secondly, quite frankly, there aren't enough police officers to catch every OVI, let alone stop every car that pulls out of a bar parking lot. Besides, no matter where that vehicle is coming from, we still need a valid, legal reson to stop the vehicle.

Thirdly, there are other duties that take priority over arresting OVI's. Calls for service, which tend to be more frequent on the weekends (when OVI's are also more common), take priority over chasing drunks. It's not that we wouldn't like to catch all the drunks out there, but there are only so many officers with so much time.

You're making assumptions...namely that it's "bad for business" for bars to have police officers arresting OVI's from their parking lots and, as such, there is some kind of "arrangement" between law enforcement and the bars to prevent this...that simply are not accurate. Think things through (or, even better, ASK A QUESTION first) instead of making unsupported accusations and assumptions.

JeffroPoPo
08-28-2006, 03:02 AM
The logical thing to do would be to know all the closing times at all of the local bars within your town and then watch as the drunken idiots stumble to their vehicle, then catch then down the road. I have seen this happen before. But lately, unfortunately, at all the places around this town and others, I see nobody being followed. Obviously its bad for business if the bar gets known as a hot spot for police activity and then the bar owner goes complaining to the chief for the bad business but its still illegal. Not to meantion, a law should be passed punishing the valet driver when he gets the car and hands the keys over to an obviously intoxicated driver. And before all of you start questioning "oh yeah...well...well...how do you know theyre not being pulled over? huh?"....the answer is, I know the bar owners, I know the police officers, I know the arrests made for that night. All im saying is, you could be adding a couple thousand dollars to your department nightly were there to be strict enforcement and obvious police presence. I do have to give it up for the officers with 100+ DUI arrests per year. Like Chicago Police Officer John Haleas who in 2005 made 374 DUI arrests and IL State Trooper Gregory T. Hart who in 2005 alone made 217 DUI arrests. Keep up the excellent work.

Oh hell http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif

JeffroPoPo
08-28-2006, 03:04 AM
ALL people involved in federal, state, local, and county police, university police, jail guards, prison guards, community service officers, "meter maids", bodyguards, loss prevention officers, forensics, armored car drivers, crossing guards, private detectives..etc..they're involved in protection of the laws, the public, and of assets. They're pretty much on the same side and pretty much all trying to do good. Don't use the "us versus them" mentality when they're on the same side as you.

Oh hell http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif

Stop Resisting
08-28-2006, 03:12 AM
Not mean't to be joking as DUI is a very serious subject that kills many people, but I heard a joke not long ago on the subject of cops watching drunks... here goes:

So two cops are sitting outside the local bar ready to bust a few drunk drivers on their ways home after bar close. At 3am, the bar closes shop and out walk a few guys. The others seem fine, but one is stumbling everywhere. He keeps dropping his keys on the ground, burping, and falling over.
The other guys take off as the two cops have their drunk for the night. The drunk gets in his car, and drives off. Shortly down the road, the cops pull out the suspected drunk, who is now very well articulated and not even stumbling. The two cops pull out the PBT...
The drunk blows a .000. The officers are amazed "You're not drunk?" they ask.
"No", he answers,"I'm the Designated Decoy."

JeffroPoPo
08-28-2006, 04:37 AM
Not mean't to be joking as DUI is a very serious subject that kills many people, but I heard a joke not long ago on the subject of cops watching drunks... here goes:

So two cops are sitting outside the local bar ready to bust a few drunk drivers on their ways home after bar close. At 3am, the bar closes shop and out walk a few guys. The others seem fine, but one is stumbling everywhere. He keeps dropping his keys on the ground, burping, and falling over.
The other guys take off as the two cops have their drunk for the night. The drunk gets in his car, and drives off. Shortly down the road, the cops pull out the suspected drunk, who is now very well articulated and not even stumbling. The two cops pull out the PBT...
The drunk blows a .000. The officers are amazed "You're not drunk?" they ask.
"No", he answers,"I'm the Designated Decoy."
That's actually not a joke, we had a discussion about that about a week ago, it actually happens.

Tim Dees
08-28-2006, 01:51 PM
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=508933&postcount=18

badge1024
08-28-2006, 11:40 PM
lol BING...you're hilarious, let me try and break this down for you, in no way was I advocating that officers allow people to break the law just so that they can get a conviction down the line. OBVIOUSLY, the officer is there to PREVENT the drunk driver from killing someone BY PULLING THEM OVER AND ARRESTING THEM!...and to the rest of you who responded....I know that calls are just backlogged like crazy at 3am and you're running your butt off....(no, actually at 3am its dead and there is mostly just DUI enforcement and speeding tickets :D )....so yes....there ARE officers and there IS "spare" time to have at least one officer work the outside of a bar in his squad car for a little bit watching out for fighting and drunk drivers...etc...and I'm sure that 50% of the 374 DUI arrests were thrown out....are you kidding me? not sure what your stats are buddy.

MesaHopeful
08-29-2006, 12:10 AM
There's some law here (or at least there was in Phoenix) that it wasw actually entrapment for police to sit outside and wait for drunks to get in their cars before stopping and arresting them.

I'm not a guru of legalese, so I have no idea where to find this law, but I believe that was the basic gist of it.

Camo Cop
08-29-2006, 12:53 AM
There's some law here (or at least there was in Phoenix) that it wasw actually entrapment for police to sit outside and wait for drunks to get in their cars before stopping and arresting them.

"entrapment" is probably the most mis-used, over-used, and least understood word in the legal arena of the USofA.


Plagiarized from sopmwhere on the web...

Entrapment consists of two elements as follows:

1. State action that induced the defendant to commit the crime; AND

2. A lack of predisposition on the part of the defendant to commit the crime.

Bing_Oh
08-29-2006, 01:24 AM
lol BING...you're hilarious, let me try and break this down for you, in no way was I advocating that officers allow people to break the law just so that they can get a conviction down the line. OBVIOUSLY, the officer is there to PREVENT the drunk driver from killing someone BY PULLING THEM OVER AND ARRESTING THEM!
Ok, let's try to make this a little simpler...

If I, as an on-duty officer, were to see an obviously intoxicated person walk up to their car in a bar parking lot, would it not be more in line with my duties to make contact with this misguided person and advise him/her that it might be better that they either walk or find a ride home? Of course, police officers don't do this. Oh, wait. I've done this. Many times. Recently. Huh.


I know that calls are just backlogged like crazy at 3am and you're running your butt off....(no, actually at 3am its dead and there is mostly just DUI enforcement and speeding tickets :D )....so yes....there ARE officers and there IS "spare" time to have at least one officer work the outside of a bar in his squad car for a little bit watching out for fighting and drunk drivers...etc...and I'm sure that 50% of the 374 DUI arrests were thrown out....are you kidding me? not sure what your stats are buddy
And, you know this from your YEARS of experience as a street cop, right? Actually, things can get VERY busy right after bar closing...and not just with OVI's. There are crashes. There are complaints of disorderly conduct. There are domestics when people get home from the bar and decide to tune up their significant others (ALOT of domestics, in fact).

By the way, you should also consider the primary missions of certain law enforcement agencies and the organizational makeup of some larger departments. If you look at the stats of the Ohio State Highway Patrol for a saturday night, compaired to an similarly-sized department, you'll find that the OPS has alot more OVI's. Why? Oh, maybe it's because their jurisdiction is limited to state highways and they rarely take calls for service that aren't traffic-related. As for larger PD's, have you ever heard of a designated traffic unit? You know, guys who's primary jobs are traffic enforcement, who don't take calls for service. It's real easy to get OVI's when you're not running from one domestic to the next.

Badge1024, you'd better learn a few things about law enforcement before you start assuming you know it all.

canuck21
08-29-2006, 02:15 AM
....so yes....there ARE officers and there IS "spare" time to have at least one officer work the outside of a bar in his squad car for a little bit watching out for fighting and drunk drivers...etc...

I would never, ever send less than 3 officers to a night club or bar check (for those of us who actual work in law enforcement - we call them "bar checks"). I prefer my officers to RTO alive, thank you.

BeeJay
08-29-2006, 09:51 PM
Badge1024, I don't know anything about being a loss prevention officer, so I won't give advice on how to guard socks and underpants, shoes and hats.

However, I do know how to detect and process a drunk driver. Now, of course, the legislation delivering me this power is probably quite different in my country to yours.

If I take in a drunk driver after a positive road side test, I'm off the road for at least an hour on a very quiet night. Double that time, sometimes longer, on Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights. Get that, I'm off the road, because we can only deal effectively and efficiently with one incident at a time.

The Officers you quote doing huge figures of DD's may not be doing anything other than drink drivers. They may not have any other duties, and, I agree, congratulations to them, fantastic work. I detest the irresponsibility of people who drive whilst drunk. The entire country here is 0.05%, and 0.00% for provisional and public transport drivers.

So who attends to all the rapes, assaults, robberies, traffic accidents, missing persons, domestics, arsons, suicides, attempted suicides, murders. Perhaps it's different where you live, here the Police do that and more.

Obviously, it must be a very enjoyable place to reside, this town you guard the socks and hats in, and the Police are in collusion with the hoteliers. Apparently it's all quiet after 3am.

Struth!!!!! Man all hell breaks loose here once the pubs shut. That's when the majority of rapes, assaults, robberies, traffic accidents, missing persons, domestics, arsons, suicides, attempted suicides, murders, happen. Oh, and of course the drivers are going home drunk.

Anyway, take care of them socks and jocks.
BeeJay
Aussie cop

cst.sb
08-29-2006, 10:15 PM
I would never, ever send less than 3 officers to a night club or bar check (for those of us who actual work in law enforcement - we call them "bar checks"). I prefer my officers to RTO alive, thank you.

You're the best!!! I love RTOing alive!!

By the way, can you call the office for me and tell them B49 is 10-35.. I forgot to sign out for the night... DOH!!

Stewie
08-29-2006, 10:19 PM
Badge1024, I don't know anything about being a loss prevention officer, so I won't give advice on how to guard socks and underpants, shoes and hats.

However, I do know how to detect and process a drunk driver. Now, of course, the legislation delivering me this power is probably quite different in my country to yours.

If I take in a drunk driver after a positive road side test, I'm off the road for at least an hour on a very quiet night. Double that time, sometimes longer, on Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights. Get that, I'm off the road, because we can only deal effectively and efficiently with one incident at a time.

The Officers you quote doing huge figures of DD's may not be doing anything other than drink drivers. They may not have any other duties, and, I agree, congratulations to them, fantastic work. I detest the irresponsibility of people who drive whilst drunk. The entire country here is 0.05%, and 0.00% for provisional and public transport drivers.

So who attends to all the rapes, assaults, robberies, traffic accidents, missing persons, domestics, arsons, suicides, attempted suicides, murders. Perhaps it's different where you live, here the Police do that and more.

Obviously, it must be a very enjoyable place to reside, this town you guard the socks and hats in, and the Police are in collusion with the hoteliers. Apparently it's all quiet after 3am.

Struth!!!!! Man all hell breaks loose here once the pubs shut. That's when the majority of rapes, assaults, robberies, traffic accidents, missing persons, domestics, arsons, suicides, attempted suicides, murders, happen. Oh, and of course the drivers are going home drunk.

Anyway, take care of them socks and jocks.
BeeJay
Aussie cop

I think someone just got put back into their place, nice one! :D

willowdared
08-29-2006, 10:24 PM
By the way, can you call the office for me and tell them B49 is 10-35.. I forgot to sign out for the night... DOH!!

:p

It's way more fun to call you at home and ask if you are EOS!

cst.sb
08-29-2006, 10:34 PM
:p

It's way more fun to call you at home and ask if you are EOS!

Hey, I wonder if I can claim some OT and meal break for the call?? :p

Well, switching from Patrol to SLO (SRO) sitting parked and 10-8 for 20 hours won't be an issue.. haha

JeffroPoPo
08-30-2006, 01:49 AM
I know that calls are just backlogged like crazy at 3am and you're running your butt off....(no, actually at 3am its dead and there is mostly just DUI enforcement and speeding tickets :D )....so yes....there ARE officers and there IS "spare" time to have at least one officer work the outside of a bar in his squad car for a little bit watching out for fighting and drunk drivers...etc...and I'm sure that 50% of the 374 DUI arrests were thrown out....are you kidding me? not sure what your stats are buddy.
Oh hell http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif http://www.panterachat.com/phpBB/images/smiles/lol.gif

SgtScott31
08-30-2006, 03:11 AM
Most decent-sized metropolitan cities have DUI enforcement units. Metro Nashville DUI enforcement have several officers that are part of the 100+ club. Meaning that they have 100+ DUI arrests in a year's time. Usually at least 2-3 DUI's a week. Why not more? Probably because from the time of the stop to the time the officer leaves jail is, at minimum, 2 1/2 hours. DUI's are a lengthy process, not including those that involve MVC's.

The last time I rode with those guys they were serving warrants the first two hours on shift to try and catch up on the SO's backlog.

I lead my department in DUI arrests last year, but since I've been promoted, I only get to run the Intox most of the time... :(

zap
08-30-2006, 03:34 AM
lol BING...you're hilarious, let me try and break this down for you, in no way was I advocating that officers allow people to break the law just so that they can get a conviction down the line. OBVIOUSLY, the officer is there to PREVENT the drunk driver from killing someone BY PULLING THEM OVER AND ARRESTING THEM!...and to the rest of you who responded....I know that calls are just backlogged like crazy at 3am and you're running your butt off....(no, actually at 3am its dead and there is mostly just DUI enforcement and speeding tickets :D )....so yes....there ARE officers and there IS "spare" time to have at least one officer work the outside of a bar in his squad car for a little bit watching out for fighting and drunk drivers...etc...and I'm sure that 50% of the 374 DUI arrests were thrown out....are you kidding me? not sure what your stats are buddy.


Bing was right...you arn't.

Next...

badge1024
08-30-2006, 09:52 AM
Yeah.....you're ALL right...considering NONE of you know anything about my personal life, qualifications, or knowledge that I have on the matter :p Thanks and have a nice day

irishlad2nv
08-30-2006, 10:34 AM
Your "qualifications"...you are kidding right. It's obvious you know nothing about LE or else you would not be in here asking questions or playing scenario games on threads.

Just move on kid.

futurencLEO
08-30-2006, 01:10 PM
Yeah.....you're ALL right...considering NONE of you know anything about my personal life, qualifications, or knowledge that I have on the matter :p Thanks and have a nice day

Could you please enligthen us then?

JeffroPoPo
08-30-2006, 04:46 PM
Yeah.....you're ALL right...considering NONE of you know anything about my personal life, qualifications, or knowledge that I have on the matter :p Thanks and have a nice day
Well it's fairly obvious that you know far more about policing than all these sworn officers who have answered your rediculous-to-begin-with questions