FBI or FAMS???

[maximuslab]

This question goes out to everyone......

If you had to pick between being a Special Agent in the FBI or an Air Marshal, which would you choose? I am nearing the end of both processes and each has its pluses and minuses.

Just curious...thanks.

[COASTIE01]

FBI no doubt. I could not stand sitting around that much!!!

[Captain38]

TRUST ME! IF you get an offer from them, go with the FBI!

[drepol]

whichever one says 'yes'. Lets have this discussion if/when someone actually has two Fed. LE offers on the table

[SlowDownThere]

No decision really. Why wouldn't you go with the FBI?

[msw]

I'd pick the FBI, for the greater variety of potential investigative assignments you'd handle in your career; and, more likely, a better quality of "home life" as well. (I think FAMS spend way more time away from their families than the average FBI agent.)

[maximuslab]

like i said, both agencies (to me at least) have their pluses and minuses. I am done with the FAMS process and near the end of the FBI process (still plenty of time to get passed).

I think the pluses for the Air Marshals is that I'd be able to learn another language, make more money, get my PhD (already have a master's), and travel alot (which I like). The negatives I think everyone knows: possibly monotonous work, horrible hours, and away from home too much.

The pluses for the FBI is the obvious: prestige, more investigative work, less travel, more interesting responsibilities. The negatives for me is that i don't want to be entirely consumed with being an agent and not have the freedom to do other things in this world.

Any advice, experiences, or whatever you want to offer would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[tripledouble]

like i said, both agencies (to me at least) have their pluses and minuses. I am done with the FAMS process and near the end of the FBI process (still plenty of time to get passed).

I think the pluses for the Air Marshals is that I'd be able to learn another language, make more money, get my PhD (already have a master's), and travel alot (which I like). The negatives I think everyone knows: possibly monotonous work, horrible hours, and away from home too much.

The pluses for the FBI is the obvious: prestige, more investigative work, less travel, more interesting responsibilities. The negatives for me is that i don't want to be entirely consumed with being an agent and not have the freedom to do other things in this world.

Any advice, experiences, or whatever you want to offer would be much appreciated. Thanks!
If you don't want to be entirely consumed with being an agent, what's your dream job ambition?

[mattph4716]

Look into the turnover rates of both agencies. People must leave FAMS for a reason. It is often used as a stepping stone. Also, FAMS process is a lot faster so don't turn down an offer in anticipation for an offer from the FBI that may never come.

[maximuslab]

mattph4716 ,

Exactly what I was thinking. I don't want to turn down the FAMS in hopes of getting the FBI gig and then if they turn me down, I am left empty handed entirely!

Since I am further along the FAMS process than the FBI, I'll take that and see how it goes.

Anyone think if I turn down the FBI for now (I'm up to the PFT process) it'll hurt me down the road?

To answer someone elses question, my career career goal is to finally serve my country, be proud of what I do, but also grow individually (i.e. obtaining additional education, skills, travel, etc.).

[usmc1775]

Maximus,

I'm in the same boat with you.
I'm at the end of the process with the FAMS
I've completed the Phase one testing for the FBI.
I'm scheduled to do the panel interview with the Secret Service two weeks from now.

I'm knee deep in the process with three different 1811 OIG positions (FDIC, DOD, Dept of Commerce)

I have spent the last year and a half getting to this spot. Four months ago I was called back to active duty from my home in Atlanta to Camp Pendleton California. I have been gone for the last four months, and I live in a hotel room. I have a wife and two small children.


My wife wants me to give all of this up, and buy a UPS store franchise and come home for good. She is unwilling to move, and refuses to uproot the children. I'm not too sure what I'm supposed to do anymore either. I'm just going to keep my head down and keep moving forward......

[SoCalFed]

I'll throw in my two cents as a current Special Agent (1811). If you have narrowed it down to four agencies (A, B, C, & D), accept the first one that offers you a job, because the other three positions may never come through, no matter how close you think you are to being hired. With that said, people DO switch agencies and I’m an example of it.

Lets say you start as an SA with EPA-OIG, you can always move over to ATF and only have to complete the agency add-on training and not have to repeat CITP.

If the first agency that picks you up happens to be the FAMS and later down the road you accept an 1811 slot, no one will look down on you.

Just don't put yourself in a position that you reject agency A only to find out that agency B, C, and D did not come through.

As a caveat, don't get in the habit of agency hopping frequently because that can create issues, especially if it is in the same job series (i.e. 1811).

Remember in the end, it is YOUR career and you have to do what is right for YOU....

[DOAcop38]

This question goes out to everyone......

If you had to pick between being a Special Agent in the FBI or an Air Marshal, which would you choose? I am nearing the end of both processes and each has its pluses and minuses.

Just curious...thanks.

Flying "armed" security or investigator working cases? Investigator all the way !!!!!!-and you will travel,plus ,depending on where you work, you'll get COL and built in 25% OT pay.alot of FBI retirees go on to become chiefs of some mid sized,suburban and small town PDs,or go into corporate security or work for insurance and financial entities.Don't see but a very narrow future with FAMS,plus where I work, I only come into contact with a FAM once in a while-most of the crimes on aircrafts are handled by me locally or with the FBI,CBP or BICE ,and i personally feel that the TSA regulatory agents-who also do civil and criminal follow ups ,should have as much authority as the FAMS( oops I once posted on the limits of FAMS before and got my head chewed off! never mind what I said- the "FAMS" are the ELITE of FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT,JOIN THEM,FORGET EVERYTHING ELSE-FAMS ARE BETTER THAN ALL OF US...!!!) bottom line ,Take whatever offer comes down the pipe, learn and get off probation,then weigh your options......

[drepol]

Flying "armed" security or investigator working cases? Investigator all the way !!!!!!-and you will travel,plus ,depending on where you work, you'll get COL and built in 25% OT pay.alot of FBI retirees go on to become chiefs of some mid sized,suburban and small town PDs,or go into corporate security or work for insurance and financial entities.Don't see but a very narrow future with FAMS,plus where I work, I only come into contact with a FAM once in a while-most of the crimes on aircrafts are handled by me locally or with the FBI,CBP or BICE ,and i personally feel that the TSA regulatory agents-who also do civil and criminal follow ups ,should have as much authority as the FAMS( oops I once posted on the limits of FAMS before and got my head chewed off! never mind what I said- the "FAMS" are the ELITE of FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT,JOIN THEM,FORGET EVERYTHING ELSE-FAMS ARE BETTER THAN ALL OF US...!!!) bottom line ,Take whatever offer comes down the pipe, learn and get off probation,then weigh your options......
Us FAMs get LEAP (25% OT as you call it) and locality pay, just like 1811s

[maximuslab]

I just received an email this morning that "We regret to inform you that, at this phase of the assessment process, better qualified applicants are being considered for Federal Air Marshal vacancies" after my file was sent to the hiring panel this week.

I know that Avue sucks and I also know that alot of guys have received this email and were still hired. Any know if there's a way of checking the validity of this email?

[maximuslab]

Ahhh geez, AVUE called me back and said that the rejection email was correct. I've been deemed not a qualified candidate anymore and that they're looking for "better" candidates....OUCH!!!!

I guess when they said they're looking for diversity that was just a bunch of crap (do I sound bitter? hahaha). I am not military or law enforcement so that's probably why.

Good luck to all of you out there...keep on truckin'! :)

[SoCalFed]

This is a good example of why you should always keep ALL of your options open. Had you turned down the FBI, thinking the FAMS were a "sure thing", you would have been REALLY unhappy. However thankfully you did not, and now you can continue the process with the FBI as well as the other agencies.

People get hired all the time as 1811's with no prior LE experience. My good friend (who also is an 1811) has no prior LE experience.

Good luck!

[0351]

( oops I once posted on the limits of FAMS before and got my head chewed off! never mind what I said- the "FAMS" are the ELITE of FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT,JOIN THEM,FORGET EVERYTHING ELSE-FAMS ARE BETTER THAN ALL OF US...!!!)
No sir, you got the response you did because of your total lack of tact and maturity. Your posts remind me of kids on video game forums posting (baselessly) about how much better sony is than microsoft or vice versa (and yes, I do go to those forums from time to time).
I really like my job, and nothing personal, but I wouldn't trade it to be airport police for a sizeable raise. That said I have no urge to come onto a public forum, using the anonymity of the internet, to call airport police armed "security." As if providing security to the flying public is at all something to be mocked... not to mention everyone on the ground that could be targeted.
We ultimately have the same mission, I don't understand what your gripe is.

[Washingtonian]

You're certifiably insane if you turn down FBI for FAMS. That's just my opinion.

[DOAcop38]

No sir, you got the response you did because of your total lack of tact and maturity. Your posts remind me of kids on video game forums posting (baselessly) about how much better sony is than microsoft or vice versa (and yes, I do go to those forums from time to time).
I really like my job, and nothing personal, but I wouldn't trade it to be airport police for a sizeable raise. That said I have no urge to come onto a public forum, using the anonymity of the internet, to call airport police armed "security." As if providing security to the flying public is at all something to be mocked... not to mention everyone on the ground that could be targeted.
We ultimately have the same mission, I don't understand what your gripe is.

Ohh, jeez- don't get all "HUFFY" -and "micro soft"games are the BOMB(oopps,can't say that around FAMS)Chill, Bro- I was just being "sarcastic" about a past posting where I had been talking to a few disgruntled co-workers of yours,ala "why did I leave my previous LE job for this"and to make a point of reference- I am considered "armed security"-the federal gov't calls a lot of LE positions "security" vs. "investigations".I work as a uniformed "police officer"- patrol in a blk and wht, make a whole myriad of arrests,been in pursuits,shooting,etc, YET I am "security" in that I serve a preventative feature for the travelling public like YOU DO as ARMED FEDERAL Flight "security" also-my prior post just commented that you are NOT necessarily doing alot of "traditional" police work in your position-AND YES, you guys have been blasted by alot of guys I know in FED L.E.-maybe out of jealousy,maybe they have a point-I've experienced the same ,but I DON'T get ****ed about it, nor would even have to say something as equally "sophmoric" as saying you wouldn't trade your job to for airport police!Every bodies LE job is important, from some of the rural cops that post here to the FEEBEES to state troopers, welfare fraud invesitgators,transit policemen,etc- if a FAM can stop something bad form happening ,I'm all for it!


if FAMS is treating you well,giving you the career you want and giving you the sense of helping serve the public- why trade? it would be as stupid as me taking the 6 mo process to do an inter city Dept transfer to LAPD-no real benefit in it. and I stand on what I said- you may protect the airlines,but it is the FBI who handle the crimes and the federal arrests- it is also the TSA regulatory who are doing the paperwork to get to the filings for the ATTY Gen'l-and I have YET to see a FAM assist me in rolling a violent Drunk,or a sexual assault suspect ,or a wanted felon off a plane-yet customs agents,FBI,DEA and even the UNARMED TSA reg agents HAVE!!! I NEED no anonymity to post here or write my "opinions"(thats akin to you trying to call me a "coward", and with 17+ yrs of "security"/policing, I have the physical SCARS and several hundred felony arrests to prove I am ANYTHING BUT) - and those opinions are just that -mine.If I'm totally wrong about your job- feel free to post the correct info on what you guys do or are responsible for- your website really doesn't give alot of info.If that doesn't satisfy you-feel equally FREE to PM me and we can "discuss" it one on one. As far a posters and potential FAMs like maximus and USMC 1775-good luck on whatever your choices are ,just as long as you know and can appreciate the pluses and minuses of your choices, and they satisfy your needs......

[DOAcop38]

You're certifiably insane if you turn down FBI for FAMS. That's just my opinion.

Don't say that! Someone will GET MAD AT YOU ( for having an "opinion") :D

[BigRich]

Given the original 2 choices, I'd go with FBI, IF BOTH AGENCIES HAD OFFERED ME A JOB. Why? Because if I were to go that route, I'd want to join the HRT. I'm kind of nuts like that. That being said, take the first job offered to you, because the other may not come through. And once you're a Fed, lateral transfers are relatively painless (if my Fed buddies are to be believed, anyway). Aside from that, anything else I say will just be repeating all the same (good) advice you have already received. Good luck, whatever you decide.


BR

[SoCalFed]

Once you are an 1811, it is easier to "transfer". The DEA, FBI, and USPIS have their own academies, but all of the remaining agencies (ATF, USMS, USSS, ICE, DS, NCIS, OIG's, etc.) Special Agents get their basic training at FLETC.

Specifically I’m speaking of CITP (Criminal Investigator Training Program). Think of having CITP under your belt as being POST certified. Yes, you have to go through the application process if you want to transfer to another agency. But it makes you a much more appealing candidate because you can hit the ground running (i.e. immediately start working), with only possibly needing to complete agency specific add-on training. And of course it saves the new agency $$$.

[Five-0fromSoCal]

you'll get COL and built in 25% OT pay. ......


The Feds come along for fun sometimes during our operations. They told us that they dont get o/t and the COL isn't worth it. I was working a double o/t spot later that day. He was kind of jealous and said their work week actually is based on a 50 hour work week. Is that what ur saying is the built in 25% o/t pay?

[SoCalFed]

The Feds come along for fun sometimes during our operations. They told us that they dont get o/t and the COL isn't worth it. I was working a double o/t spot later that day. He was kind of jealous and said their work week actually is based on a 50 hour work week. Is that what ur saying is the built in 25% o/t pay?

Yes, the 25% LEAP (Law Enforcement Availability Pay) is built into our pay. Here in Los Angeles, a GS-13 makes over $100K per year, so I can't say i'm ready to stand in line for foodstaps. 1811's are expected to work 50 hours per week. The part of being "available" is up for interpretation. At my agency you are supposed to be working during LEAP hours and must document your activities. In my case and everybody else I know who is an 1811 (regardless of agency), we go well over the 50 hours per week and end up "donating" the excess time (i.e not getting paid). However I know one agency that just requires you just be "available", which they interpret as within Nextel range....

[Group 29]

Another vote for taking the first one that offers you a job.

But, on the other hand, if you get offers from both at the same time, it is a little weird that you have applied to both without a more thorough understanding of what each agency does, and which one would suit you better.

[Guitar Cop]

I am smelling a bit of bull poop here

Air Marshals are guys with a little police experience and usually no education who provide security on airplanes

FBI agents usuallyhave law degrees, CPA's special language or computer skills, etc

I don't believe they draw from the same pool of applicants

[drepol]

I am smelling a bit of bull poop here

Air Marshals are guys with a little police experience and usually no education who provide security on airplanes

FBI agents usuallyhave law degrees, CPA's special language or computer skills, etc

I don't believe they draw from the same pool of applicants
Uh, no, but I'm pretty sure people are allowed to apply to multiple agencies concurrently...

[Guitar Cop]

Uh, no, but I'm pretty sure people are allowed to apply to multiple agencies concurrently...

Sure they are, but NOBODY who were on the verge of getting jobs from both agencies would ask that question

It's like asking:

" I have job offers from Bubba's Security Inc to work at the mall and the State Police. Which one should I take"

[PPDMO373]

Air Marshals are guys with a little police experience and usually no education who provide security on airplanes


Your a dumbass.... :rolleyes:

Every FAM I know has military experience, LEO experience, and a lot have FLEO experience.....and that seems to be what they are hiring based on what folks are posting on other LE websites......

[Group 29]

I am smelling a bit of bull poop here

Air Marshals are guys with a little police experience and usually no education who provide security on airplanes

FBI agents usuallyhave law degrees, CPA's special language or computer skills, etc

I don't believe they draw from the same pool of applicants

I would not say that. I don't know if I would want to be an Air Marshal or not, but the ones I have met, and known, have been as squared away, and as experienced, as any other LEO's I have known.

The FBI and FAM are different jobs, and you would hope anyone applying to either of them would have done a little more basic research into them before they reached the point of being about to recieve an offer, with no knowledge of what they had applied to do.

[drepol]

Sure they are, but NOBODY who were on the verge of getting jobs from both agencies would ask that question

It's like asking:

" I have job offers from Bubba's Security Inc to work at the mall and the State Police. Which one should I take"
I'd appreciate you not comparing a Federal Law Enforcement agency to a mall security company. While many would consider FBI a better opportunity, the FBI is not a better agency, just a different one. There are a few of us FAMs around these boards, and I, for one, am not appreciative of you bashing my job.

[usmc1775]

It is not at all odd to be under consideration by multiple agencies. I completed the PRA yesterday for FAMS, and just faxed my transcript to the BI guys for forwarding to the Hiring board.

I have the Panel Interview with the Secret service next week, and I passed the selection screening, and Phase 1 test for the FBI a month ago (entering under finance/ accounting ticket).

I have applications open with FDIC OIG, DOD OIG, NASA OIG, Dept of Commerce OIG, and NCIS.

I do have a 4 year BS. I have 14 years the Marines (Active and Reserve) I can fly airplanes, and am a competition handgun shooter. I ran a Financial advisory firm for 3 years, and am a generally good looking guy to boot.

[GoldBadge]

I really don't understand all the barbs. They are both very different jobs.

FAMs protect the flying public and the FBI is ... well, the FBI - more of an investigative job.

The best advice is to take the first job that is offered to you. You can always jump ship.

[tdparmel]

It is not at all odd to be under consideration by multiple agencies. I completed the PRA yesterday for FAMS, and just faxed my transcript to the BI guys for forwarding to the Hiring board.

I have the Panel Interview with the Secret service next week, and I passed the selection screening, and Phase 1 test for the FBI a month ago (entering under finance/ accounting ticket).

I have applications open with FDIC OIG, DOD OIG, NASA OIG, Dept of Commerce OIG, and NCIS.

I do have a 4 year BS. I have 14 years the Marines (Active and Reserve) I can fly airplanes, and am a competition handgun shooter. I ran a Financial advisory firm for 3 years, and am a generally good looking guy to boot.

IT seems as if you are an ideal canidate for most law enforcement jobs. I have a question about the NCIS process. I just submitted my application, transcripts and SF 50 form. Have you heard back since you submitted your application? How far are you in the process?
My credentials: 4 year degree but in sociology and journalism. I have almost completed my Master's degree in Criminal Justice.
I lack the special skills these agencies want: Foriegn Language, background in computers.
One thing I will say: You seem to be what most of these agencies want (they all seem to have very ridiculous hiring qualifications), one qualification you are lacking is an advanced degree. The ability to fly the airplanes, managerial experience, firearms experience, and military experience is quite impressive

[Armyflyboy]

My cousin just finished the FBI academy; he finished the entire application process a year and a half before he was actually hired, so definitely don't put all your eggs in one basket. He was told the entire time that he was an exceptional candidate and listed as "highly competitive"; he has a masters in accounting and nothing damaging in his background, but it still took over a year to get hired due to budgeting. Once you say no to any agency you won't get another chance with them, this I know from experience. Just my two cents. Good Luck.

[Up_On_Base]

I really don't understand all the barbs. They are both very different jobs.

FAMs protect the flying public and the FBI is ... well, the FBI - more of an investigative job.

The best advice is to take the first job that is offered to you. You can always jump ship.

Gotta agree with Gold Badge, go with your first offer and if your not happy jump ship if the other offer comes. I guy from my USSS class got an offer from the DEA after being on the job for 2 months, he left and has not looked back.

They are both good positions, but I would lean towards FBI if you want an active LE job.

[jmat1980]

FBI and FAMS are two completely different jobs. Think of what you want. FBI will definately be more interesting. it has been mentioned that FAMS is generally a stepping stone. In my CITP class we had about 8 prior FAMS. Not to say that no one leaves the FBI but the FAMS definately has more turn over.

I would not turn down either one. Take FAMS if it comes first and if FBI comes through, leave. Jumping around in the Fed Gov. is not as uncommon as you may think. I know many people who got a call for their 'choice' agency while within the first month of the academy at their 'first offer' agency and left. Because it happens so much (jumping around) i dont think it looks that bad...

[Fire4Effect]

Just be very cautious about trying to take one position and applying to another. Your parent agency can make life very difficult for you and if you don't get the second job, you're locked in a tiger cage for a while. I have to agree with the other posters though, take whatever is first.

Unfortunately, I speak from experience on this one.