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SHERIFF
08-11-2006, 12:47 AM
Anybody can get fired from a police department or sheriff's office. Anybody, any time, any day, for a variety of reasons. Some legitimate, some not. It's no big deal. Life goes on. Or does it in some cases? What drives a cop to do this foolishness after getting fired? He found another job and should have been delighted under the circumstances. :confused:

http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=5&id=32000

Ex-Maryland Officer Admits to Civil-Rights Crimes

August 9th, 2006

A former police officer pleaded guilty Tuesday to two civil-rights charges for making anonymous death threats against black school children and Hagerstown's first black city council member.

Jeffrey S. Shifler, 42, entered the pleas in federal court in Baltimore and faces up to 20 years in prison and $500,000 in fines at his Dec. 8 sentencing.

"When a law enforcement officer makes racist threats against government officials and school students, it is a threat to the very fabric of our society," U.S. Attorney Rod J. Rosenstein said.

Shifler was working for the Boonsboro Police Department when he made a series of calls to Hagerstown school officials and threatened to shoot black students, according to court records. The calls prompted several school lockdowns.

On Jan. 31, Shifler left an anonymous voice message at the home of Hagerstown City Council member Alesia Parson-McBean, claiming to represent the Ku Klux Klan and threatening to burn her house. He had sent her racially charged letters in 2004 on the letterhead of the Hagerstown Police Department, where he worked at the time.

Shifler, of Maugansville, Md., pleaded guilty Tuesday to charges of interfering with public-school attendance and interfering with housing in connection with the threats against the students and Parons-McBean.

Parson-McBean didn't immediately return telephone calls seeking her reaction to the pleas. In February, she called the threats "devastating" and "bone-chilling."

Deputy Federal Public Defender Joseph A. Balter, who represented Shifler, declined to comment on his client's motive, but said he is "deeply sorry about the pain that he caused to the victims."

According to a criminal complaint filed in February, the threats began in 2004 after Shifler, a 16-year veteran of the Hagerstown police force, was fired for falsifying payroll records.

He was fired from the Boonsboro Police Department after the federal charges were filed.

Spoiler-
08-11-2006, 12:55 AM
You always seem to know how to brighten my day Sheriff

Soon2Be
08-11-2006, 10:18 AM
It's a lot harder to get canned from a Police Department in Canada.

A LOT harder.

Edited to add:
Hmmm I just read the news story and feel I should qualify my above statement.

My statement about it being hard to be canned from a PD in Canada related to sheriff's comment:


Anybody can get fired from a police department or sheriff's office. Anybody, any time, any day, for a variety of reasons. Some legitimate, some not. It's no big deal. Life goes on.

It did not relate to the news story. What that guy did was way freaking wrong, and deservedly got canned - as he would here.

Prangler
08-11-2006, 11:49 AM
Im sorry but there is dumb...and there is FRICKIN DUMB. You are doing something so stupid and illegal...but yet do it with a letter head of the PD that you work for. I call it natural selection...some people are just not cut out to be the police...this is obviously one of those situations.

jrhodes
08-11-2006, 12:20 PM
You always seem to know how to brighten my day Sheriff
That's the truth. You love finding all the negative out there don't ya? Just another article showing the bad side of an leo. You must really love law enforcement.

badge1024
08-11-2006, 07:53 PM
SHERIFF- As im sure youre well aware. EASY as cake to get fired in the interview process, the academy, the field training, the probationary period...etc.....HARD as can be to get fired once youre locked in :) you get a lawyer, a full trial...etc...theres a lot that can get you suspended. but fired is more like getting sexual favors from motorists to get off a ticket..etc...

wcso234
08-11-2006, 07:56 PM
SHERIFF- As im sure youre well aware. EASY as cake to get fired in the interview process, the academy, the field training, the probationary period...etc.....HARD as can be to get fired once youre locked in :) you get a lawyer, a full trial...etc...theres a lot that can get you suspended. but fired is more like getting sexual favors from motorists to get off a ticket..etc...

Why dont sheriff tell us about his experience getting fired? Since he seems to know it all let him share his experience. Since Im from Virginia I can almost guarantee that he will quote the "at will" statue since thats what all the cops fired for a reason around here use instead of giving the "real" reason

SHERIFF
08-11-2006, 07:57 PM
SHERIFF- As im sure youre well aware. EASY as cake to get fired in the interview process, the academy, the field training, the probationary period...etc.....HARD as can be to get fired once youre locked in :) you get a lawyer, a full trial...etc...theres a lot that can get you suspended. but fired is more like getting sexual favors from motorists to get off a ticket..etc...

Depends on the state and agency I suppose.

In Virginia, a sheriff can hire and fire at will, with or without cause.

There was a day and time when a new incoming sheriff would fire an entire department.... and hire his own friends and family. This is not done much any longer, but only because departments have grown so large. Some sheriff's don't have 100 to 300 friends and family to hire. :)

texaschickeee
08-11-2006, 08:03 PM
texas is a at will state to, however there is such a thing as "unjust termanation"
to fire someone , at will state or not you better be able to back up the reasons or lay the person off.

ever hear of a lawsuit? that can happen after "unjust termantion". and yes I ahve see the out come of it. the person got like 100K for the termation and pain and suffer. icing on the cake- got reinsated to the postion and walked in, gave a two weeks notice and becasue he ahd all vacation time and sick time restored, used ever sick day then left.
got his vacation pay then.


hell of a price for a really scummy lawyer.

SHERIFF
08-11-2006, 08:31 PM
Why dont sheriff tell us about his experience getting fired? Since he seems to know it all let him share his experience. Since Im from Virginia I can almost guarantee that he will quote the "at will" statue since thats what all the cops fired for a reason around here use instead of giving the "real" reason

You, of all people, should know a sheriff in Virginia can hire and fire at will. This isn't something I made up off the top of my head. :) After the next election you could be looking for a job in a minute's notice.

My experience at being fired? Sure, I am glad to share this information. Because it really sounds as if you, as a Virginia deputy sheriff, have no idea how powerful Virginia sheriffs actually are. I was suspended for an allegation. When I filed a grievance appeal over the suspension, and hoped to prove the allegation wasn't true, I was then fired. By virtue of state law, the sheriff revoked our right to the "grievance procedure" which the city afforded us for years prior to this revocation. I had committed "contempt of sheriff" by filing a grievance complaint on this suspension. By God, he was God! And I had the nerve to question his decision. :D

The allegation was I fell asleep in court one morning. This was during the time frame when, 1) I had just sat up for weeks with my father who was dying of cancer, During the last month his passing was expected at any second. 2) My daughter had just undergone emergency surgery which saved her life, and 3) The city doctor had himself prescribed medications to me which cause drowsiness, in reference to a Sick Building Symdrome. Why would a city doctor do this knowing my job description and the fact I needed to remain alert at all times? Our courthouse was repeatedly opened and closed because of this Sick Building Syndrome. (By the way, the courthouse was NEVER closed the first time until the then sheriff himself got sick. They had stuff growing in the duct work. In this mysterious growth.... cancer causing agents were found.)

Do you think I am embarrassed by this? Not in the least. Everybody in town knew it was all political. Everybody under the rank of sergeant left this sheriff's office when this person became sheriff. Some voluntarily, some not. I refused to leave voluntarily, I made him look for and find a reason to fire me. Maybe the city dovctor was helping him? :)

The sheriff who hired me at another agency (EVEN BEFORE I HAD BEEN FIRED) said the sheriff's "reason" was BS, and something else was obviously going on. He even said himself that he has dozed off in court, that it was normal after working courtrooms for years. But anyhow, of course there was something else going on. The sheriff and I just didn't like each other. He had been sheriff for 1 1/2 to 2 years, and I had worked there for over two decades before he came along. While going through the process of being suspended and fired, I was actually a sworn deputy sheriff in Virginia at 2 agencies at the same time. I could easily have gone to work at the second agency full time if I had chosen to do so. But I went into what I call a semi-retired occupation. I had gotten tired of all the good ole boy antics, nepotism and politics involved in law enforcement of any type.

Police officers in Virginia have a Bill of Rights, deputy sheriffs don't. Don't ever assume you're safe and have job security working for a Virginia sheriff. All it takes is just wrong traffic stop to find yourself unemployed. Or one disagreement with your sheriff. Or if a family member of the sheriff reaches the age to be hired, you might become the sudden vacancy. Or if your sheriff is booted during the next election, your chances of the same are at best 50/50.

Having said all of the above about the then sheriff, you wouldn't believe what happened next when I expressed an interest in running against him in the next election. And he knew I was going to pull his many skeletons out of the closet and put them on public display. That's a 45 page reply. :eek: It's in a book that was due to be released this year, until something else came up. This "something else" will now be invcluded in the book which was already over 700 pages long. :D

SHERIFF
08-11-2006, 08:36 PM
ever hear of a lawsuit? that can happen after "unjust termantion"...


You mean termination. And I tested it in Virginia. The first words out of the judge's mouth were, "I'm not sure why we're all here this morning, gentleman! The law clearly says a sheriff can hire or fire at will, with or without cause!"

He had driven a 100 miles just to shoot the case down with his first sentence. I and my attorney both knew there was no sense in even arguing the case thereafter. The judge had announced his decision in his first sentence. :D

scratch13
08-11-2006, 08:57 PM
You, of all people, should know a sheriff in Virginia can hire and fire at will. This isn't something I made up off the top of my head. :) After the next election you could be looking for a job in a minute's notice.

My experience at being fired? Sure, I am glad to share this information. Because it really sounds as if you, as a Virginia deputy sheriff, have no idea how powerful Virginia sheriffs actually are. I was suspended for an allegation. When I filed a grievance appeal over the suspension, and hoped to prove the allegation wasn't true, I was then fired. By virtue of state law, the sheriff revoked our right to the "grievance procedure" which the city afforded us for years prior to this revocation. I had committed "contempt of sheriff" by filing a grievance complaint on this suspension. By God, he was God! And I had the nerve to question his decision. :D

The allegation was I fell asleep in court one morning. This was during the time frame when, 1) I had just sat up for weeks with my father who was dying of cancer, During the last month his passing was expected at any second. 2) My daughter had just undergone emergency surgery which saved her life, and 3) The city doctor had himself prescribed medications to me which cause drowsiness, in reference to a Sick Building Symdrome. Why would a city doctor do this knowing my job description and the fact I needed to remain alert at all times? Our courthouse was repeatedly opened and closed because of this Sick Building Syndrome. (By the way, the courthouse was NEVER closed the first time until the then sheriff himself got sick. They had stuff growing in the duct work. In this mysterious growth.... cancer causing agents were found.)

Do you think I am embarrassed by this? Not in the least. Everybody in town knew it was all political. Everybody under the rank of sergeant left this sheriff's office when this person became sheriff. Some voluntarily, some not. I refused to leave voluntarily, I made him look for and find a reason to fire me. Maybe the city dovctor was helping him? :)

The sheriff who hired me at another agency (EVEN BEFORE I HAD BEEN FIRED) said the sheriff's "reason" was BS, and something else was obviously going on. He even said himself that he has dozed off in court, that it was normal after working courtrooms for years. But anyhow, of course there was something else going on. The sheriff and I just didn't like each other. He had been sheriff for 1 1/2 to 2 years, and I had worked there for over two decades before he came along. While going through the process of being suspended and fired, I was actually a sworn deputy sheriff in Virginia at 2 agencies at the same time. I could easily have gone to work at the second agency full time if I had chosen to do so. But I went into what I call a semi-retired occupation. I had gotten tired of all the good ole boy antics, nepotism and politics involved in law enforcement of any type.

Police officers in Virginia have a Bill of Rights, deputy sheriffs don't. Don't ever assume you're safe and have job security working for a Virginia sheriff. All it takes is just wrong traffic stop to find yourself unemployed. Or one disagreement with your sheriff. Or if a family member of the sheriff reaches the age to be hired, you might become the sudden vacancy. Or if your sheriff is booted during the next election, your chances of the same are at best 50/50.

Having said all of the above about the then sheriff, you wouldn't believe what happened next when I expressed an interest in running against him in the next election. And he knew I was going to pull his many skeletons out of the closet and put them on public display. That's a 45 page reply. :eek: It's in a book that was due to be released this year, until something else came up. This "something else" will now be invcluded in the book which was already over 700 pages long. :D

Sounds to me like you are way to paranoid. Also, I have to add, you said "allegation" a few times in there as if it wasn't true. Then you went on to give a lot of reasons/excuses as to why it was reasonable for you to fall asleep. Which is it? Did you or didn't you? Also the doctor deal, I have no doubts that somewhere on that prescription, it says something about "may cause drowsiness." I bet you could scan it and post it like the tazer warning.

I will agree that sheriffs have a lot more power than some realize.

wcso234
08-11-2006, 09:09 PM
The allegation was I fell asleep in court one morning. This was during the time frame when, 1) I had just sat up for weeks with my father who was dying of cancer, During the last month his passing was expected at any second. 2) My daughter had just undergone emergency surgery which saved her life, and 3) The city doctor had himself prescribed medications to me which cause drowsiness, in reference to a Sick Building Symdrome. Why would a city doctor do this knowing my job description and the fact I needed to remain alert at all times? Our courthouse was repeatedly opened and closed because of this Sick Building Syndrome. (By the way, the courthouse was NEVER closed the first time until the then sheriff himself got sick. They had stuff growing in the duct work. In this mysterious growth.... cancer causing agents were found.)

My point in this is not to embarass you at all but merely to prove a point. You made a mistake.........you said that the previous Sheriff made the comment that he himself had fallen asleep in court although you never admitted to falling asleep yourself despite posting your lack of sleep and prescribed medicine that would cause you drowsy. You never admitted doing it but all indicators say that you did.........whether it was 100% you fault or not.
Despite this you come on here time and time again and point out........almost to the point of getting joy.........stories of officers getting caught and losing there jobs. You remind me of one such delegate that fought the VSP for disability tooth and nail and then when he got into office he bends over backwards for the VSP.
Just because you got the shaft dont enjoy everytime another officer gets the shaft.
I, like you, know the consequenses of being a Deputy in VA. As a matter of fact when I left my secure state job (in which I couldnt be fired because of all the red tape and court hearings that would be required) I was sworn in with the Sheriff on my right side in front of a circuit court judge. I looked at my Sheriff and looked at my badge and said "Sheriffs Deputy......Live by the sword, Die by the sword" I know and still know what "at will" means.

SHERIFF
08-11-2006, 11:11 PM
Also, I have to add, you said "allegation" a few times in there as if it wasn't true. Then you went on to give a lot of reasons/excuses as to why it was reasonable for you to fall asleep. Which is it? Did you or didn't you?

The point was...... even if I had fallen asleep..... I had perfectly acceptable excuses for it. We'll never know now if I did or not. Because the judge refused to hear the case..... and my witnesses never got to testify.

Had the sheriff not revoked our access to the city grievance process, I would have won. I had already kicked butt in 2 grievance procedures before this. Once when my performance evaluation was rated down because of who I was rather than my performance. And another time when the sheriff said I would do so and so full time, when all other duties were rotated. He was punishing me for being so vocal in the community about him hiring his own son. :D



Also the doctor deal, I have no doubts that somewhere on that prescription, it says something about "may cause drowsiness." I bet you could scan it and post it like the tazer warning.

Most certainly didn't. I had no idea what the drug was or what it did. I had just been released from the hospital for a work related lung infection from the Sick Building Syndrome.

Before this event I had never taken prescription drugs for anything that I can recall.

The Sick Building Syndrome and subsequent injuries could very well have had a hand in them wanting to get rid of people too. :D A fellow deputy was injured in a courtroom fight and finally had to quit when they made his life miserable. The city stepped around Workmen's Comp claims in any manner they could.

Our then sheriff didn't have to repeatedly suffer the Sick Building Syndrome like we did. He finally figured out how to sit in his office and keep both windows open for fresh air. We were working in a sealed courtroom and couldn't get fresh air. This is an actual picture from 1995 in which he kept the windows open.

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/194/4364/86946.jpg



I will agree that sheriffs have a lot more power than some realize.

Oh yes. Much more than a simple Chief of Police.

SHERIFF
08-11-2006, 11:24 PM
My point in this is not to embarass you at all but merely to prove a point. You made a mistake.........

No, I didn't. The access to the grievance procedure was revoked when I set out to prove I didn't. It wasn't just revoked for me, it was revoked for the entire department.


...you said that the previous Sheriff made the comment that he himself had fallen asleep.....

I said the sheriff who hired me while my termination was pending at the other department said the excuse was total BS. He said that he himself had nodded off a time or two. If he didn't feel the excuse was total BS do you think he would have hired me? :D

The allegation was actually a compliment to me, IMHO. There were 2 other deputies in the courtroom at the time. If everybody went to hell in a handbasket because I "fell asleep" (the allegation), that's not saying much for the other two deputies, is it? :)


Despite this you come on here time and time again and point out........almost to the point of getting joy.........stories of officers getting caught and losing there jobs. Just because you got the shaft dont enjoy everytime another officer gets the shaft.

I hope anything I post is a learning tool. The vast majority of it comes right from the officer.com home page. Does officer.com enjoy it every time an officer gets the shaft? Is this what you are trying to say? :confused:


I, like you, know the consequenses of being a Deputy in VA.

OK. I figured you did, but I just wanted to make sure you were well aware there's NO job security in a sheriff's office whatsoever.

futurencLEO
08-12-2006, 11:44 AM
The point was...... even if I had fallen asleep..... I had perfectly acceptable excuses for it.

Kind of like the CMPD officer had an excuse to shoot the man in the cell tower, kind of like the SC Trooper for getting ****ed off after an 8 miles chase.

SHERIFF
08-12-2006, 01:03 PM
Kind of like the CMPD officer had an excuse to shoot the man in the cell tower, kind of like the SC Trooper for getting ****ed off after an 8 miles chase.

Nope. You guys compare apples to oranges way too much. The allegation against me only affected me. It did not inflict pain and/or suffering on any person. :rolleyes:

chaser266
08-12-2006, 02:29 PM
I have to say, I'm with SHERIFF on this one, as the facts are presented. I am eager to read the book when it comes out -- keep us posted.

As for falling asleep in court, I'm just curious what kind of tool would file a complaint to the sheriff about that. What happened to a nudge in the arm, and, "Hey, wake up, buddy?" I have seen bailiffs appear to fall asleep in court on several occasions. I just kind of chuckled to myself, and moved on with my life. In the courtrooms I'm in, we normally have several armed patrol guys present -- so it's not like it's a huge safety issue. Discipline may have been appropriate, but firing seems over the top, based on the information given.

I'm curious when deputy sheriffs in Virginia are going to make their voices heard on this issue? As a matter of fact, when is the law enforcement community as a whole (regardless of the color of the uniform or state) going to come together and fight for change? Should a politician really have absolute power over the careers of numerous, sometimes hundreds, of law enforcement officers?

SHERIFF
08-12-2006, 03:31 PM
I have to say, I'm with SHERIFF on this one, as the facts are presented. I am eager to read the book when it comes out -- keep us posted.

As for falling asleep in court, I'm just curious what kind of tool would file a complaint to the sheriff about that. What happened to a nudge in the arm, and, "Hey, wake up, buddy?" I have seen bailiffs appear to fall asleep in court on several occasions.

The judge had to take a break to call his wife. Before returning and resuming the docket he told me I appeared as if I wasn't feeling well and had nodded off. I told him I indeed wasn't feeling well, but I thought I would be OK. (The city doctor had given me a "get off work free" card, I should have used it, but I knew this would be used against me too if I had used it.)

A fellow deputy went back and reported the conversation to my sheriff. Remember what I have said on many occasions -- an officer's worst enemy is often another officer. I was just one more qualified "veteran deputy" out of their way as they all sought promotions. :)

Other deputies in the same department had never been fired for nodding off or even falling asleep. One fell asleep in federal court one day. It was nothing more than a joking matter after the fact. The commonwealth attorney walked in one day and kicked a deputy in the leg to wake him up. I saw it. It also was nothing more than a joking matter after the fact. And the deputy and commonwealth attorney both lied about it. This commonwealth attorney lost the next election, he came under attack from several directions because of the type of person he was.

As I have said before, this particular sheriff was looking for a reason to get rid of me. We had no love for each other whatsoever.

There is justice in life though. He was later canned too. After becoming the police cheif after being sheriff, and after firing me while he was sheriff, he begged the city manager to let hom stay on after the age of 60. The city manager told him NO. The city manager was getting enough grief about this fellow, because the city manager had dropped the educational requirements and overlooked a much more qualified black candidate to give the job to "a good ole boy". The black community was all over his back about this.

The day I left this office was like having a ton of brick lifted off my shoulders. No more being on call every third night. No more being on call every third weekend. No more pagers laying on the pillow beside my head. No more getting up at 2:00 a.m. and having to find a babysitter for my then 4-year-old daughter. No more having to wake her up, dress her, and take her out in 20 degree weather. Only to return 2 hours later and pick her up from the babysitters. No more going into work at 8:00 a.m. after being up all night long. No more working court when cases went past 5:00 p.m. Cases very often went to 10:00 p.m. or midnight.

One of the biggest side effects of leaving this office.... no more headaches. And I am speaking of physical headaches. I had headaches so often I wondered if I had a brain tumor. The day I left this office they totally disappeared. I got up the next morning and felt better than I had in 25 years. And no more heartburn as well. Just the heartburn and headaches alone was a major factor in my never going back into law enforcement full time again.

scratch13
08-12-2006, 09:45 PM
One observation. You constantly slam rookies for making rookie mistakes. As stated you know how powerful sheriffs are. I have never worked for one myself, but even though it is fairly hard for the admin to fire me, I would not make the mistake by running my mouth about how the chief hired/promoted his relative (or buddy) in public. If I did, I wouldn't be surprised if I got stuck in a cruddy job or gasp! get fired over something bogus.

Sounds like that is one "rookie" move on your part.

Also, did you say that you have sued or are in the act of suing some PDs? If so, what about and how many times?

SHERIFF
08-13-2006, 12:02 AM
I would not make the mistake by running my mouth about how the chief hired/promoted his relative (or buddy) in public.

It wasn't a mistake. I knew exactly what I was doing.

I simply didn't give a damn. :D


If I did, I wouldn't be surprised if I got stuck in a cruddy job or gasp! get fired over something bogus.

I wasn't. But I made him work for the privilege. I had already kicked butt twice in grievance appeals. The only way they won the third time was to revoke access to the grienvance procedure. I have already explained this.


Also, did you say that you have sued or are in the act of suing some PDs? If so, what about and how many times?

You sure do know a lot, and ask a lot of questions to have just joined here a few days ago. :D

scratch13
08-13-2006, 07:09 AM
I have lurked here for a while and I finally jumped in. It took a while to get granted access. I am not really following you. Are you saying you didn't care if you got fired or are you saying that you wanted to make it hard for him to fire you? Which is it? It would not make sense for both. I am just busting your balls a little bit, old timer.

SHERIFF
08-13-2006, 10:51 AM
I have lurked here for a while and I finally jumped in. It took a while to get granted access.

What previous user name were you lurking with? :D


I am not really following you. Are you saying you didn't care if you got fired or are you saying that you wanted to make it hard for him to fire you? Which is it?

Yes.


I am just busting your balls a little bit, old timer.

OK, lurker! :D

scratch13
08-13-2006, 08:22 PM
You sure do know a lot, and ask a lot of questions to have just joined here a few days ago. :D

I do know a lot, to that I will agree. :D I have been known to ask a lot of questions at work too. Am I asking too many questions, or just ones that you don't like, Mr Sheriff? :eek: Don't get yourself all worked up, just joking.

SHERIFF
08-13-2006, 10:12 PM
Am I asking too many questions, or just ones that you don't like, Mr Sheriff? :eek: Don't get yourself all worked up, just joking.


I promise not to.

PD602
08-14-2006, 10:54 AM
I have been a registered member of this forum for several months now. Is it safe to say that member SHERIFF is not the most popular member here? I don't understand why a former officer/deputy would join a law enforcement forum and make smart a**, know-it-all comments, just to make other members upset. Why can't people act mature and try being kind to other brother and sisters in law enforcement instead of ****ing people off. Aren't we all here as one to learn from each other and have fun in our chosen profession of law enforcement? Just my opinion.

SHERIFF
08-14-2006, 11:02 AM
I have been a registered member of this forum for several months now. Is it safe to say that member SHERIFF is not the most popular member here? I don't understand why a former officer/deputy would join a law enforcement forum and make smart a**, know-it-all comments, just to make other members upset. Why can't people act mature and try being kind to other brother and sisters in law enforcement instead of ****ing people off. Aren't we all here as one to learn from each other and have fun in our chosen profession of law enforcement? Just my opinion.

I try to educate rooks and other cops.

They do not agree with my opinions.

Like my opinion on pursuits for example.

See my most recent subject why pursuits are evil.......

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51801

scratch13
08-14-2006, 12:19 PM
I try to educate rooks and other cops.

They do not agree with my opinions.

Like my opinion on pursuits for example.

See my most recent subject why pursuits are evil.......

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51801

I have respond to this and do not get to upset. Pursuits are not evil. People are evil. The acts of evil people are evil. A pursuit involves someone breaking the law and someone trying to catch that person who is breaking the law. This is a good thing. If you care to debate the merits of pursuits for differing crimes, then go ahead, I will say sure. But pursuits just by their nature are not evil, Mr sheriff. :) Sorry for taking this message over.

Ozzie
08-14-2006, 12:41 PM
In no way am I necessarily qualified to make a proper post, but I'll try anyway, :p You fell asleep in court and you fought getting fired because of it? Getting fired is a little over the top but most people taking prescribed meds usually check the symptoms on the bottle, it says on the bottle 'makes you drowsey, do not operate heavy machinery' blah..blah.. and so forth. You should have checked the bottle, and before you even sat down in the court room spoke to the judge and told him your situation so at least it didn't look like you fell asleep and did not care. I am confused on the part where you posted something to the effect of 'I don't remember if I fell asleep' , :confused: ahh...dude either you fell asleep or you were awake. Did you drive yourself to court that day? Do you remember anything in court, if not, chances are you completely zoned out and did fall asleep, how can you not remember.

But I guess if you are carefree now and are pleased w/o being in LE, than I say good for you and take care.

All IMOO

SHERIFF
08-14-2006, 01:06 PM
I have respond to this and do not get to upset. Pursuits are not evil. People are evil. The acts of evil people are evil. A pursuit involves someone breaking the law and someone trying to catch that person who is breaking the law. This is a good thing. If you care to debate the merits of pursuits for differing crimes, then go ahead, I will say sure. But pursuits just by their nature are not evil, Mr sheriff. :) Sorry for taking this message over.

At the time this pursuit was initiated all the suspect was wanted for was driving through an accident scene too fast. What's too fast? 25 mph? 35 mph?

It was only later that the cops learned he was an habitual offender, driving a stolen vehicle, wanted for failure to apear, had an extensive criminal record, etc....

The end result is a totally innocent cop was killed because of a pursuit that shouldn't have been taking place. And that's just not acceptable IMHO.

As I am typing this reply, my local news just had a report of a deputy sheriff ramming a small silver Honda in Augusta County, Virginia. The driver of the Honda failed to yield to the officer's lights and siren. As I have said many many times before, people simply can not see the blue lights in daylight, and because of the new and better cars (and stereo systems) they can't hear the sirens until it's to late.

The local news also just had a picture of the Buick Regal the Chesterfield officer hit. The entire front end was mangled, as in read "a high speed collision". Very sad.
The lady has just been transported to the hospital. I sure hope she lives.

SHERIFF
08-14-2006, 01:10 PM
I am confused on the part where you posted something to the effect of 'I don't remember if I fell asleep' ..... :confused:


I have never made such a statement.

chaser266
08-14-2006, 02:05 PM
Generally, I don't buy the argument that people didn't realize the police were pursuing them. Pursuits are not evil. The police are not evil. What's evil is the egocentric fool that is so worried about getting locked up that he chooses to jeopardize the public's safety. It's a shame when an innocent person gets hurt as a result of the bad guy's actions. However, pursuits are a necessary part of maintaining law and order in our society. Let's not allow ourselves to be brainwashed by the ramblings of some high-priced attorneys.

SHERIFF
08-14-2006, 02:33 PM
Generally, I don't buy the argument that people didn't realize the police were pursuing them.


It's entirely possible. One day I was going down I-64 in the left lane going about 77 in a 65 mph zone. Even at 77 mph I was passing things that weren't going much less than 72 or 73 mph themselves. All of a sudden I glanced in my rear view mirror and there was a dark brown sheriff's car flashing his headlights and almost running off the road to the far left trying to get around me. He was about 4 feet from my bumper going 77 mph. If he had been pursuing me I never would have known it unless his siren was to grab my attention over the CD player.

I later received a letter in the mail from his captain stating he had been suspended for 3 days without pay. Seems this wasn't the first time he had been out on the highway system disregardng the safety of other motorists.

scratch13
08-14-2006, 09:54 PM
Can I ask if this was instigated by you sending a letter complaining first? And how often do you complain on cops? Do you really have any idea why the officer was running code? And since you are an ex-cop, shouldn't you go the speed limit and be aware of your cd player level if it is going to make you a possible hazard on the roadway? Lot's of questions, I know.

SHERIFF
08-14-2006, 11:28 PM
Can I ask if this was instigated by you sending a letter complaining first?

Nope. Not by me.


And how often do you complain on cops?

Only when they do something way over the top. Or in other words, probably about as often as a cop arrests another for DUI. :)


Do you really have any idea why the officer was running code?

He wasn't. I said he was flashing his headlights on and off and running to the far left of the left lane trying to get people to move out of the left lane.


And since you are an ex-cop, shouldn't you go the speed limit and be aware of your cd player level if it is going to make you a possible hazard on the roadway? Lot's of questions, I know.

I very clearly said his siren would have to be activated to have gotten my attention. His headlights, engine and tires weren't making enough noise to immediately grab my attention. Where did you get the impression my CD player was loud enough to knock the leaves off trees? :D

Mannix
08-14-2006, 11:49 PM
As usual, Sheriff is full of good news for us. :rolleyes:

chaser266
08-14-2006, 11:59 PM
It's entirely possible. One day I was going down I-64 in the left lane going about 77 in a 65 mph zone. Even at 77 mph I was passing things that weren't going much less than 72 or 73 mph themselves. All of a sudden I glanced in my rear view mirror and there was a dark brown sheriff's car flashing his headlights and almost running off the road to the far left trying to get around me. He was about 4 feet from my bumper going 77 mph. If he had been pursuing me I never would have known it unless his siren was to grab my attention over the CD player.

I later received a letter in the mail from his captain stating he had been suspended for 3 days without pay. Seems this wasn't the first time he had been out on the highway system disregardng the safety of other motorists.
That was a lovely story; and you tell it so well -- with such enthusiasm. Sadly, it's not relevant to the discussion because we use lights and siren when we pursue. Also, pursuit is normally regarded as an active attempt to elude police -- check out 46.2-817 (Code of Virginia) which specifies a "willful and wanton" disregard of the signal to stop that endangers any person.

Also, let me restate that I **GENERALLY** don't buy the argument that they didn't know the police were pursuing them. I'm sure you could come up with some scenario that would be an exception to the rule, though.

scratch13
08-15-2006, 12:28 AM
It's entirely possible. One day I was going down I-64 in the left lane going about 77 in a 65 mph zone. Even at 77 mph I was passing things that weren't going much less than 72 or 73 mph themselves. All of a sudden I glanced in my rear view mirror and there was a dark brown sheriff's car flashing his headlights and almost running off the road to the far left trying to get around me. He was about 4 feet from my bumper going 77 mph. If he had been pursuing me I never would have known it unless his siren was to grab my attention over the CD player.

I later received a letter in the mail from his captain stating he had been suspended for 3 days without pay. Seems this wasn't the first time he had been out on the highway system disregardng the safety of other motorists.

Sounds like he had somewhere to go. I don't always run code trying to get to a call. People get the deer in the headlights reaction. A lot of times it makes it worse. Especially those that are not paying attention.////The second bolded sentence is not very clear. Sorry, it is a bit confusing.//// By saying that you recieved a letter, the assumption is that you instigated some type of complaint. Regardless of how you did it, you complained on a cop. That seems a bit much, coming from an ex-cop. Sorry, it may just be my take on it. I will lay off of you. You seem too popular here.

SHERIFF
08-15-2006, 01:05 AM
Sorry, it is a bit confusing. By saying that you recieved a letter, the assumption is that you instigated some type of complaint.

You assumed too much.


Regardless of how you did it, you complained on a cop.

Now you just "assumed" again. :rolleyes:


I will lay off of you. You seem too popular here.

So it's a popularity contest? :confused:

JeffroPoPo
08-15-2006, 02:41 AM
He had sent her racially charged letters in 2004 on the letterhead of the Hagerstown Police Department, where he worked at the time.
Dee dee dee!

scratch13
08-15-2006, 09:22 AM
It's entirely possible. One day I was going down I-64 in the left lane going about 77 in a 65 mph zone. Even at 77 mph I was passing things that weren't going much less than 72 or 73 mph themselves. All of a sudden I glanced in my rear view mirror and there was a dark brown sheriff's car flashing his headlights and almost running off the road to the far left trying to get around me. He was about 4 feet from my bumper going 77 mph. If he had been pursuing me I never would have known it unless his siren was to grab my attention over the CD player.

I later received a letter in the mail from his captain stating he had been suspended for 3 days without pay. Seems this wasn't the first time he had been out on the highway system disregardng the safety of other motorists.

Why would you recieve a letter from his captain unless you said something about the incident to his chain of command? Do they send out letters to everyone in the area when a cop gets suspended? I am not trying to start anything here now, I am just confused by what you stated. I did assume, but you cannot blame me for assuming these things on what you gave me.

SHERIFF
08-15-2006, 10:19 AM
Why would you recieve a letter from his captain unless you said something about the incident to his chain of command? Do they send out letters to everyone in the area when a cop gets suspended? I am not trying to start anything here now, I am just confused by what you stated. I did assume, but you cannot blame me for assuming these things on what you gave me.

Sure I can blame you. For making wild assumptions and implicating I had done so and so. Just feel free to keep assuming. :)

Soon2Be
08-15-2006, 10:19 AM
Sure I can blame you. For making wild assumptions and implicating I had done so and so. Just feel free to keep assuming. :)
Why don't you give scratch13 the clarification he/she asks for, to help him/her stop assuming?

SHERIFF
08-15-2006, 10:26 AM
Why don't you give scratch13 the clarification he/she asks for, to help him/her stop assuming?

Because it would just give EVERYBODY here more fodder for and against the Virginia State Police. Do you really want to watch that Dog & Pony show? :D

And secondly, it's simply none of his business. It's amusing how new members who just joined have so many questions of the SHERIFF.

Soon2Be
08-15-2006, 10:35 AM
Because it would just give EVERYBODY here more fodder for and against the Virginia State Police. Do you really want to watch that Dog & Pony show? :D

And secondly, it's simply none of his business. It's amusing how new members who just joined have so many questions of the SHERIFF.
Gotchya - you complained. That's why you got a response. No need to explain.

SHERIFF
08-15-2006, 10:46 AM
Gotchya - you complained.

I complained about what? :confused:

BrickCop
08-15-2006, 10:56 AM
Gotchya - you complained. That's why you got a response. No need to explain.

That's his standard MO when you ask him for clarification- he dodges, deflects or ignores. He was asked a valid question and but deflected it by bringing up the VSP.

You can fool some of the people some of the time...:rolleyes:

Soon2Be
08-15-2006, 11:01 AM
That's his standard MO when you ask him for clarification- he dodges, deflects or ignores. He was asked a valid question and but deflected it by bringing up the VSP.

You can fool some of the people some of the time...:rolleyes:

Oh I know... it's really kinda funny - in a sad, lame, sort of way.

SHERIFF
08-15-2006, 11:05 AM
Oh I know... it's really kinda funny - in a sad, lame, sort of way.

Just so happens I clarified things in Private Message to BrickCop. I have no idea who the new member Scratch13 is and why he randomly picks me to ask so many questions of. :D

And I hope BrickCop has enough integrity not to post the Private Message in the public forum. We shall see.

Soon2Be
08-15-2006, 11:08 AM
Just so happens I clarified things in Private Message to BrickCop. I have no idea who the new member Scratch13 is and why he randomly picks me to ask so many questions of. :D

And I hope BrickCop has enough integrity not to post the Private Message in the public forum. We shall see.You purposely left your statements open for interpretation, then complained about they way people are interpreting them. :rolleyes: It's a funny and odd game you play.

SHERIFF
08-15-2006, 11:09 AM
You purposely left your statements open for interpretation, then complained about they way people are interpreting them. :rolleyes: It's a funny and odd game you play.

Nope. See Reply #44.

If officer.com had a secure area for COPS only we wouldn't have this problem, IMHO.

scratch13
08-15-2006, 11:16 AM
Because it would just give EVERYBODY here more fodder for and against the Virginia State Police. Do you really want to watch that Dog & Pony show? :D

And secondly, it's simply none of his business. It's amusing how new members who just joined have so many questions of the SHERIFF.

Listen, Mr sheriff, I intended no disrespect. I do not want this to turn into some type of grudge match. I will lay off and stop asking questions if it bothers you. There are a ton of questions that I wish I had asked when I was just a reader. I will say it is very funny that you bring up something, then tell me that it is none of my business. How can I ask you about anything in particular about your life if you had not brought it up first? Again, I do not want this to trun ugly. I have found some of what you have posted interesting and informative. Some of it, I even agree with. But let's end this whole negative direction before it goes anywhere.

Soon2Be
08-15-2006, 11:16 AM
Nope. See Reply #44.

If officer.com had a secure area for COPS only we wouldn't have this problem, IMHO.

Post 41:

It's entirely possible. One day I was going down I-64 in the left lane going about 77 in a 65 mph zone. Even at 77 mph I was passing things that weren't going much less than 72 or 73 mph themselves. All of a sudden I glanced in my rear view mirror and there was a dark brown sheriff's car flashing his headlights and almost running off the road to the far left trying to get around me. He was about 4 feet from my bumper going 77 mph. If he had been pursuing me I never would have known it unless his siren was to grab my attention over the CD player.

I later received a letter in the mail from his captain stating he had been suspended for 3 days without pay. Seems this wasn't the first time he had been out on the highway system disregardng the safety of other motorists.


Why would you recieve a letter from his captain unless you said something about the incident to his chain of command? Do they send out letters to everyone in the area when a cop gets suspended? I am not trying to start anything here now, I am just confused by what you stated. I did assume, but you cannot blame me for assuming these things on what you gave me.

Post 42:

Sure I can blame you. For making wild assumptions and implicating I had done so and so. Just feel free to keep assuming. :)

Post 44:

Why don't you give scratch13 the clarification he/she asks for, to help him/her stop assuming?


Because it would just give EVERYBODY here more fodder for and against the Virginia State Police. Do you really want to watch that Dog & Pony show?

And secondly, it's simply none of his business. It's amusing how new members who just joined have so many questions of the SHERIFF.
Perhaps you should just be more choosy, what stories you tell - that way you're not leaving yourself open for these "wild assumptions". If you can't (or won't) clarify what you say, what's the point of saying part of it? :confused:

As for the VSP nonsense, that's what it is. Nonsense.

narc
08-15-2006, 01:03 PM
Nope. See Reply #44.

If officer.com had a secure area for COPS only we wouldn't have this problem, IMHO.

then you would not be allowed in.......since security guards don't count.

SRT Sniper
08-15-2006, 01:13 PM
It's entirely possible. One day I was going down I-64 in the left lane going about 77 in a 65 mph zone. Even at 77 mph I was passing things that weren't going much less than 72 or 73 mph themselves. All of a sudden I glanced in my rear view mirror and there was a dark brown sheriff's car flashing his headlights and almost running off the road to the far left trying to get around me. He was about 4 feet from my bumper going 77 mph. If he had been pursuing me I never would have known it unless his siren was to grab my attention over the CD player.

I later received a letter in the mail from his captain stating he had been suspended for 3 days without pay. Seems this wasn't the first time he had been out on the highway system disregardng the safety of other motorists.Ok, Sheriff, I AM going to ASSUME a few things here... Sometimes common sense, instincts and assumptions are what solves the case. Too bad if you don't like that, but I'm sure you're aware how that works if you ever worked anything but court duty, anyway here goes...

First off, what does VSP have to do with a brown Sheriff's car on the highway? Unless it just so happens that a VSP officer made the complaint... but then again, if it had been a VSP officer complaining about the Deputy, you would have NO involvement and there would be NO reason for YOU to receive a letter from the Deputy's Captain now would there? :rolleyes:

Secondly, regarding the alleged suspension letter... Why in the world would YOU receive that letter, even if you were the complainant? Are you part of some IA board for the SO or the SA or do you have some other official affiliation that none of us are aware of?? Please explain how YOU have access to what is basically CONFIDENTIAL EMPLOYMENT INFORMATION for this deputy. (Oh, and PLEASE don't go off on some ridiculous rant about any other stories etcetera, just answer the question directly please!)

Lastly... P L E A S E !! Don't give me this secure area crap... Unless you are dealing with Survival Tactics/Equipment (maybe) or NATIONAL SECURITY or MILITARY SECURITY or EXECUTIVE (as in presidential, etc) SECURITY --- THERE IS NO NEED FOR A SECURE AREA to discuss Law Enforcement, that's why the laws and policies are PUBLIC RECORD!!! (notice I didn't say personnel records!!) We do NOT operate a police state... Gheez!! besides, you wouldn't know the difference between C, S, TS and SCI, LSWP or EO collaterals, etc. if it bit you on the ***!!
And I KNOW YOU DON'T, so don't even go there!! :rolleyes: :p

I think Soon2Be and Scratch took care of the rest before I could finish this post, so I'll just kick back and watch the show!! :D

futurencLEO
08-15-2006, 01:29 PM
Ok, Sheriff, I AM going to ASSUME a few things here... Sometimes common sense, instincts and assumptions are what solves the case. Too bad if you don't like that, but I'm sure you're aware how that works if you ever worked anything but court duty, anyway here goes...

First off, what does VSP have to do with a brown Sheriff's car on the highway? Unless it just so happens that a VSP officer made the complaint... but then again, if it had been a VSP officer complaining about the Deputy, you would have NO involvement and there would be NO reason for YOU to receive a letter from the Deputy's Captain now would there? :rolleyes:

Secondly, regarding the alleged suspension letter... Why in the world would YOU receive that letter, even if you were the complainant? Are you part of some IA board for the SO or the SA or do you have some other official affiliation that none of us are aware of?? Please explain how YOU have access to what is basically CONFIDENTIAL EMPLOYMENT INFORMATION for this deputy. (Oh, and PLEASE don't go off on some ridiculous rant about any other stories etcetera, just answer the question directly please!)

Lastly... P L E A S E !! Don't give me this secure area crap... Unless you are dealing with Survival Tactics/Equipment (maybe) or NATIONAL SECURITY or MILITARY SECURITY or EXECUTIVE (as in presidential, etc) SECURITY --- THERE IS NO NEED FOR A SECURE AREA to discuss Law Enforcement, that's why the laws and policies are PUBLIC RECORD!!! (notice I didn't say personnel records!!) We do NOT operate a police state... Gheez!! besides, you wouldn't know the difference between C, S, TS and SCI, LSWP or EO collaterals, etc. if it bit you on the ***!!
And I KNOW YOU DON'T, so don't even go there!! :rolleyes: :p

I think Soon2Be and Scratch took care of the rest before I could finish this post, so I'll just kick back and watch the show!! :D


I believe someone just got burned :D

Well done SRT, I wanted to ask the same question about how the brown Sheriff's car had any affiliation with the VSP.

SHERIFF
08-15-2006, 02:01 PM
First off, what does VSP have to do with a brown Sheriff's car on the highway? Unless it just so happens that a VSP officer made the complaint... but then again, if it had been a VSP officer complaining about the Deputy, you would have NO involvement and there would be NO reason for YOU to receive a letter from the Deputy's Captain now would there? :rolleyes:

............I'll just kick back and watch the show!! :D


There is no show coming. It's not my place to explain how the Virginia state trooper got involved, nor what he did thereafter. It's not important to the short story I told. And the explanation will just stir up another evil Virginia state trooper vs Professional Courtesy debate. We've seen enough of this in these forums to last 25 years.

Having said the above, I made no contact with anybody. I was approached. Which then resulted in my getting a copy of the punitive action taken against the deputy after his court date. I'm surprised I got the letter. But I'm sure just an ordinary civilian probably wouldn't have gotten it.

If we had a secure COPS ONLY area I would be more than glad to share the fine details that you guys can't figure out. :rolleyes:

SRT Sniper
08-15-2006, 02:15 PM
...If we had a secure COPS ONLY area I would be more than glad to share the fine details that you guys can't figure out. :rolleyes:
Then by all means, feel free to PM me with these details... I would like to hear a direct response to my questions. Though it is doubtful, I might actually agree with you! :rolleyes:

Then again, I KNOW that you didn't just get VOLUNTEERED to receive a disciplinary action letter... I have been around the block a few times myself Sheriff!! (Didn't I mention you should change your userid to something like RETDEPUTY or OLDDEPUTY or just plain old VADEPUTY or something??)

SHERIFF
08-15-2006, 03:06 PM
Then by all means, feel free to PM me with these details... I would like to hear a direct response to my questions. Though it is doubtful, I might actually agree with you! :rolleyes:



I'm sure you will. :D

BrickCop
08-15-2006, 09:38 PM
Just so happens I clarified things in Private Message to BrickCop. I have no idea who the new member Scratch13 is and why he randomly picks me to ask so many questions of. :D

And I hope BrickCop has enough integrity not to post the Private Message in the public forum. We shall see.


No worries Sheriff I don't post PM's although you may want to look in the mirror on that one. I seem to remember you posting people's PM's that were fawning to your ego but you posted a PM nevertheless.

BTW I will reveal the gist of my answer- I believe he should reply to valid inquiries.

There shouldn't be a litmus test to determine who receives clarification.

SHERIFF
08-15-2006, 10:45 PM
I seem to remember you posting people's PM's....

One. I had the author's permission. I would never do such a thing without asking first.


There shouldn't be a litmus test to determine who receives clarification.

There wouldn't be if we had a COPS ONLY area here.

scratch13
08-15-2006, 10:49 PM
How in the world do you know who anyone here is? This is an anonymous message board. I have not just singled you out. Look at some of my other posts. I had some valid questions specifically for you, at least I think so. I am not your biggest fan (I have not made you quote line yet) but I do not think that everything that you have posted on this site is invalid. So, I see some things alittle differently than you do. Some things that you say do not make a lot of sense or at least on the surface they do not. Is that enough?

scratch13
08-15-2006, 10:50 PM
One. I had the author's permission. I would never do such a thing without asking first.



There wouldn't be if we had a COPS ONLY area here.

Why would the question be less valid from a civilian? I am a cop, but should it make a difference?

chaser266
08-15-2006, 11:09 PM
Why would the question be less valid from a civilian? I am a cop, but should it make a difference?
Easy there, partner. Unless you retire next month, you have no right to call yourself a cop. According to SHERIFF, you're a rookie, damnit!

djack16
08-16-2006, 04:53 AM
Some of you guys are really out of it.

The thread involves an officer who SERIOUSLY violated the law and the first things you start doing is ragging on Sheriff. How about you show some integrity and condemn the man the post is about; you know, the guy who betrayed the public's trust by sending racially charged terrorist threats to school children. You guys really got you're priorities straight don't you.

scratch13
08-16-2006, 07:19 AM
Sounds to me like you are way to paranoid. Also, I have to add, you said "allegation" a few times in there as if it wasn't true. Then you went on to give a lot of reasons/excuses as to why it was reasonable for you to fall asleep. Which is it? Did you or didn't you? Also the doctor deal, I have no doubts that somewhere on that prescription, it says something about "may cause drowsiness." I bet you could scan it and post it like the tazer warning.

I will agree that sheriffs have a lot more power than some realize.

Someone else brought this line of thought up. Mr sheriff brought it up and responded to what he stated. I did agree with him on sheriffs if you look.

Soon2Be
08-16-2006, 09:52 AM
djack16, see below:

...

What that guy did was way freaking wrong, and deservedly got canned - as he would here.

SHERIFF
08-16-2006, 11:11 AM
Some of you guys are really out of it.

The thread involves an officer who SERIOUSLY violated the law and the first things you start doing is ragging on Sheriff. How about you show some integrity and condemn the man the post is about; you know, the guy who betrayed the public's trust by sending racially charged terrorist threats to school children. You guys really got you're priorities straight don't you.

They can't stay on topic. Lately, a small handful of people here turn every subject into a SHERIFF subject.

scratch13
08-16-2006, 08:11 PM
You, of all people, should know a sheriff in Virginia can hire and fire at will. This isn't something I made up off the top of my head. :) After the next election you could be looking for a job in a minute's notice.

My experience at being fired? Sure, I am glad to share this information. Because it really sounds as if you, as a Virginia deputy sheriff, have no idea how powerful Virginia sheriffs actually are. I was suspended for an allegation. When I filed a grievance appeal over the suspension, and hoped to prove the allegation wasn't true, I was then fired. By virtue of state law, the sheriff revoked our right to the "grievance procedure" which the city afforded us for years prior to this revocation. I had committed "contempt of sheriff" by filing a grievance complaint on this suspension. By God, he was God! And I had the nerve to question his decision. :D

The allegation was I fell asleep in court one morning. This was during the time frame when, 1) I had just sat up for weeks with my father who was dying of cancer, During the last month his passing was expected at any second. 2) My daughter had just undergone emergency surgery which saved her life, and 3) The city doctor had himself prescribed medications to me which cause drowsiness, in reference to a Sick Building Symdrome. Why would a city doctor do this knowing my job description and the fact I needed to remain alert at all times? Our courthouse was repeatedly opened and closed because of this Sick Building Syndrome. (By the way, the courthouse was NEVER closed the first time until the then sheriff himself got sick. They had stuff growing in the duct work. In this mysterious growth.... cancer causing agents were found.)

Do you think I am embarrassed by this? Not in the least. Everybody in town knew it was all political. Everybody under the rank of sergeant left this sheriff's office when this person became sheriff. Some voluntarily, some not. I refused to leave voluntarily, I made him look for and find a reason to fire me. Maybe the city dovctor was helping him? :)

The sheriff who hired me at another agency (EVEN BEFORE I HAD BEEN FIRED) said the sheriff's "reason" was BS, and something else was obviously going on. He even said himself that he has dozed off in court, that it was normal after working courtrooms for years. But anyhow, of course there was something else going on. The sheriff and I just didn't like each other. He had been sheriff for 1 1/2 to 2 years, and I had worked there for over two decades before he came along. While going through the process of being suspended and fired, I was actually a sworn deputy sheriff in Virginia at 2 agencies at the same time. I could easily have gone to work at the second agency full time if I had chosen to do so. But I went into what I call a semi-retired occupation. I had gotten tired of all the good ole boy antics, nepotism and politics involved in law enforcement of any type.

Police officers in Virginia have a Bill of Rights, deputy sheriffs don't. Don't ever assume you're safe and have job security working for a Virginia sheriff. All it takes is just wrong traffic stop to find yourself unemployed. Or one disagreement with your sheriff. Or if a family member of the sheriff reaches the age to be hired, you might become the sudden vacancy. Or if your sheriff is booted during the next election, your chances of the same are at best 50/50.

Having said all of the above about the then sheriff, you wouldn't believe what happened next when I expressed an interest in running against him in the next election. And he knew I was going to pull his many skeletons out of the closet and put them on public display. That's a 45 page reply. :eek: It's in a book that was due to be released this year, until something else came up. This "something else" will now be invcluded in the book which was already over 700 pages long. :D

This is you taking the thread which was starting to go off of topic and you seemed to have willingly and gladly run with as you as being the center. When you invite responses do not be upset when you get responses.

Now back on target. I absolutely 100% agree with you that sheriffs have tremendous power. More than some will be willing to admit. I am willing to bet that even a few or more like a lot vendettas were taken out with the new sheriff in town.

crashtest
08-16-2006, 08:29 PM
Now back on target. I absolutely 100% agree with you that sheriffs have tremendous power. More than some will be willing to admit. I am willing to bet that even a few or more like a lot vendettas were taken out with the new sheriff in town.

I am a sheriff and I dont think of myself as having tremendous power... what I consider myself having is more resources to solve problems... maybe even more training ect... they day i go off on a power trip is the day i am going to be done with this job.
I dont really care for the cops who think they have 'tremendous' power..its just not my cuppa so to speak...sure they are out there.. (oh how i want to go somewhere here with this.. but i refrain... look between the lines ====)
Thanks to those who try to clarify somethings...

I am so mortified at times to have to be associated with that word in this forum....it almost feels dirty. :p

but oh well....

I hope that I can help some people here which is always my intention .. and to joke around some.. because if you cannot have humor in this job.. you will die quite young.


oh and who is on my ignore list....

(.......................................no one................................)

funny that.

BrickCop
08-16-2006, 11:35 PM
The thread involves an officer who SERIOUSLY violated the law and the first things you start doing is ragging on Sheriff. How about you show some integrity and condemn the man the post is about; you know, the guy who betrayed the public's trust by sending racially charged terrorist threats to school children. You guys really got you're priorities straight don't you.


I'm sure certain parts of your post will make good signature material for a certain someone... :rolleyes:

djack16
08-16-2006, 11:42 PM
I'm sure certain parts of your post will make good signature material for a certain someone... :rolleyes:
Big deal.
tencharacters

SHERIFF
08-17-2006, 12:06 AM
As I am typing this reply, my local news just had a report of a deputy sheriff ramming a small silver Honda in Augusta County, Virginia. The driver of the Honda failed to yield to the officer's lights and siren. As I have said many many times before, people simply can not see the blue lights in daylight, and because of the new and better cars (and stereo systems) they can't hear the sirens until it's to late.

The lady has just been transported to the hospital. I sure hope she lives.


The lady died. :eek:

narc
08-17-2006, 02:03 AM
I'm sure certain parts of your post will make good signature material for a certain someone... :rolleyes:

now that's funny..

Sgt. Geezer
05-19-2007, 03:46 PM
And now almost 9 months later the Sheriff gets fired from sorta "running" another forum.
Well actually.......... they closed the forum while he was standing at the door asking where everyone went.
Pity.... Another crushing blow.

SecTrainer
05-19-2007, 07:07 PM
This is you taking the thread which was starting to go off of topic and you seemed to have willingly and gladly run with as you as being the center. When you invite responses do not be upset when you get responses.

Now back on target. I absolutely 100% agree with you that sheriffs have tremendous power. More than some will be willing to admit. I am willing to bet that even a few or more like a lot vendettas were taken out with the new sheriff in town.

Vendettas are fairly common especially against deputies who supported the new sheriff's opponent in the last election. Where the laws limit the sheriff's authority to hire and fire deputies, these vendettas take other forms like rotten shift assignments, crap duty assignments, assigning the most broken-down cruisers in the fleet, pass-over for promotions, demotions, last one to be issued a new sidearm, etc. I've even seen it to where dispatchers would became mysteriously "slow" responding to certain deputies' radio traffic. This kind of vendetta can be very hard to prove, though - and nearly impossible to do anything about.

The lesson is, pick your battles carefully. If you don't feel strongly enough about someone's election that you would voluntarily quit if they get elected, maybe it's not the best idea to gamble your job or your future on the outcome of an election.

DMS 525
05-20-2007, 01:44 PM
Depends on the state and agency I suppose.

In Virginia, a sheriff can hire and fire at will, with or without cause.

There was a day and time when a new incoming sheriff would fire an entire department.... and hire his own friends and family. This is not done much any longer, but only because departments have grown so large. Some sheriff's don't have 100 to 300 friends and family to hire. :)

Under most state guidelines anymore, deputies are hired through civil service process, which is to eliminate favoritism and nepotism from the Sheriff. But then again.......:rolleyes:

ratpatrol
05-29-2007, 12:12 AM
I thought I was the only one; granted it a disney Security MGR and not a sheriff, but ( I was accuessed of sleeping on a graveyard post) I was previously told by a 'day' person that 'someone was out to get me..
But I was not asleep... had a fall, hit my head.. while steping out to greet a Vendor... MY mgr suspended me and fired me with in 8 hours; no one looked at the tapes far enough back to see me fall.. and I was rather 'outof it.. Anyway, I later got the vendor to write a Statementon the incident; (in Spanish. no less) gave it to the union and 14 month later. I got my job back... but of course the company is still screwing me....But the blinders are off, kids..this ain't my life goal, but I do my best at my work; and let the manure fall where it may...

ratpatrol
05-29-2007, 07:40 PM
ahh...i DID NOT SEETHIS 3 -ring circus ; last night before I posted..but you all need to remember...'who among us is so perfect that they can cast that first stone? Only God can do that...
As for hiring and firing..some times it is your fault and other times not your fault,, but remember that other famous quote...what does not kill us..makes us stronger