PDA

View Full Version : For C/O's that carry off duty



40calibermikey
08-08-2006, 01:39 PM
So what do you guys carry while off duty? Do you carry a sidearm with cuffs or OC spray etc..? Is there anyone who feels that they do not need to carry a sidearm off duty?

MattCO
08-08-2006, 02:13 PM
i have a cc permit, but very rarely carry my firearm.

Bowles
08-08-2006, 02:27 PM
The longer I work in the Corrections field, the greater the need I feel to carry off duty. Currently I do not. NC C/O's appear to be covered by HB218 but I'm waiting on a reply from the US Attorney General's Office before I feel comfortable exercising that right.
Under NC law C/O's must obtain a CCW. I don't mind paying for the permit, but it chaps my ***** that I have to pay to take a class that I already take every year with the DOC. I'm just stubborn that way.

CO1989
08-08-2006, 05:16 PM
Glock 19 9mm with a 15 round clip (bought out of state), an extra 15 round clip (bought out of state) and a pair of handcuffs. My life has been threatened several times by high ranking gang members. I'm not taking any chances.

Mike

40calibermikey
08-08-2006, 06:17 PM
When you guys carry is it IWB or OWB?

ftlaudcop
08-08-2006, 06:54 PM
all levels of law enforcement should be allowed to carry just for the mere
fact of self protection, their should no difference on who can carry
whether yr police certified, correction certified.

drn151
08-08-2006, 07:18 PM
CC Permit Springfield XD 9. IWB Crossbreed holster

RdSqdCO
08-08-2006, 08:37 PM
I carry H&K USP .45, 3 12rnd mags, shoulder holster, cuffs, ID and Badge, and a crap load of paperwork on HR 218 and proof that NC C/O's are covered by it. Also, I keep my duty belt in my vehicle, therefore I also have pepper spray. :cool: :D

I also carry IWB during summer months

DefendDade
08-08-2006, 10:36 PM
I carry a Glock 19 (15 rounds) in a CTAC IWB

Revelation
08-09-2006, 03:33 AM
I would also want to carry off duty, if I am accepted to AZ DOC. I have been told AZ CO's are allowed to carry on the badge. I feel it would be my responsibility to protect my family anyways. I have been thinking about the new .45 from Springfield Armory:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-45acp.shtml

Matt-NC
08-09-2006, 09:19 AM
The longer I work in the Corrections field, the greater the need I feel to carry off duty. Currently I do not. NC C/O's appear to be covered by HB218 but I'm waiting on a reply from the US Attorney General's Office before I feel comfortable exercising that right.

Under NC law C/O's must obtain a CCW. I don't mind paying for the permit, but it chaps my ***** that I have to pay to take a class that I already take every year with the DOC. I'm just stubborn that way.

Understood. I'm still wrestling with this question (whether or not to carry). I'm toying with the idea of carrying an air taser, which would negate all the legal loophole-isms.

Our captain the other day announced that NC DOC just officially switched over from the .357 revolver to the .40 auto.

Matt

California C.O.
08-09-2006, 12:08 PM
Glock 30 - which is a 45 cal 10 rounds. IWB holster kind of a big gun to conceal mostly carry to and from work.

Davidc
08-09-2006, 12:30 PM
I carry H&K USP .45, 3 12rnd mags, shoulder holster, cuffs, ID and Badge, and a crap load of paperwork on HR 218 and proof that NC C/O's are covered by it. Also, I keep my duty belt in my vehicle, therefore I also have pepper spray. :cool: :D

I also carry IWB during summer months


Can you share the paperwork on 218, I too have researched it and believe we are covered but Bowles says that the attorney general says we are not covered. I bet if ever charged wit it a lawyer would get you off.

armoredman
08-09-2006, 12:51 PM
Yes, AZ DOC gets the same carry authority as any sworn officer, per Title 13. I do NOT cary handcuffs or pepper spray off duty, as I do not have general arrest powers, and won't be attempting any arrests or takedowns. I, do, however, carry my authorized CZ-PO1 and two spare mags, IWB in a Bianchi M100 holster for right now.
AZ also allows open carry for any law abiding adult, and shall-issue CCW permits. Registering my firearm with DOC for entry onto a complex is also the ONLY registration AZ does.
Welcome to Free AZ!

Revelation
08-09-2006, 12:58 PM
Yes, AZ DOC gets the same carry authority as any sworn officer, per Title 13. I do NOT cary handcuffs or pepper spray off duty, as I do not have general arrest powers, and won't be attempting any arrests or takedowns. I, do, however, carry my authorized CZ-PO1 and two spare mags, IWB in a Bianchi M100 holster for right now.
AZ also allows open carry for any law abiding adult, and shall-issue CCW permits. Registering my firearm with DOC for entry onto a complex is also the ONLY registration AZ does.
Welcome to Free AZ!

Let's hope it stays that way, Free AZ! The CZ-PO1 is the current duty weapon from the uniformed armed dips. here in Germany. They switched over last year from the Berreta.

SHU
08-10-2006, 05:34 AM
HK P2000SK LEM 40 cal IWB

C/OinIL
08-10-2006, 05:02 PM
We are allowed to carry to and from work while in uniform. A few police officers have mentioned that if we were to have a firearm beside us in the car off-duty, they wouldn't have a problem with it. After all, who do the bad guys get to look at and plot against 12 hours a day? Yep, us.

We carry H&K 45's.

richjorg
08-10-2006, 06:57 PM
I carry a Kahr PM9. It is carried IWB and is worn with shorts, t-shirt and flip-flops. We need to qualify with it and have proof of said qualification and our department ID.

grunt11b
08-11-2006, 08:28 PM
I carry one of these off duty.
http://www.sfondideldesktop.com/Images-Misc/Military/Artillery/Artillery.jpg
But since it's becoming a pain to holster anymore I am going to continue carrying my S&W .40 cal.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/120023_large.jpg
Yes, this is the exact model .40 I carry.

armoredman
08-11-2006, 09:03 PM
I may get a small pepper spray, for dogs and such, too.

Which "uniformed armed dips"? Can't be too stupid, to carry such a fine pistol! :cool:
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/PICT0223.jpg

Revelation
08-12-2006, 04:54 AM
Sorry, Dips as in Uniformed Diplomatic Security Officers.

mac1051
08-14-2006, 12:26 PM
I keep my smith 9mm in the car and my charterarms in my pants. I'm probably older than you guys so it shows in my pistols...LOL

leerjet19
08-15-2006, 10:21 PM
ditto what C/O in IL said, but we have a c.o. running for sheriff in november i believe so it could change. i hope.

thirdgod
08-17-2006, 02:02 AM
I carry my Glock 17 IWB, don't usually carry a spare mag unless I'm going into Phoenix or Tucson. Also ALWAYS have the badge and ID. Don't carry cuffs off duty, have no use for them; only time my weapon is coming out is to fire it, and if it comes to that, the dead bad guy will just have to deal with being held at gunpoint until PD arrives....

KenW.
08-19-2006, 06:14 PM
I did not committ the entire text of HR 218 to memory, but I thought it required having powers of arrest. In my state CO's do not.

leerjet19
08-19-2006, 11:09 PM
citizens arrest?

California C.O.
08-20-2006, 01:13 AM
I did not committ the entire text of HR 218 to memory, but I thought it required having powers of arrest. In my state CO's do not.

Correct, it states "statutory powers of arrest". My department does under the local sheriff while we are on duty in the jail.

RdSqdCO
08-20-2006, 01:57 AM
Statutory powers of arrest are required under HR-218, it doesnt matter how limited in scope they may be, only that they be derived from statute. I recommend looking in your states general statutes to see if you have limited powers of arrest, even if its just while on duty, you are still covered by HR-218... Citizens arrest is not grounds for coverage under HR-218... sorry :D

armoredman
08-20-2006, 11:42 AM
Any CO not having general arrest powers does not qualify under HR218. Being able to cuff up an inmate does NOT count.
See your Warden/Deputy Warden for more details.

tanikir
08-22-2006, 07:54 PM
Statutory powers of arrest are required under HR-218, it doesnt matter how limited in scope they may be, only that they be derived from statute. I recommend looking in your states general statutes to see if you have limited powers of arrest, even if its just while on duty, you are still covered by HR-218

Do you have any case law or AG opinions to back this up. I agree with you, however, I don't carry under 218 because I'd hate to be a test case and find out I was reading it wrong.

miked6
08-22-2006, 08:04 PM
The longer I work in the Corrections field, the greater the need I feel to carry off duty. Currently I do not. NC C/O's appear to be covered by HB218 but I'm waiting on a reply from the US Attorney General's Office before I feel comfortable exercising that right.
Under NC law C/O's must obtain a CCW. I don't mind paying for the permit, but it chaps my ***** that I have to pay to take a class that I already take every year with the DOC. I'm just stubborn that way.

Corrections Officers are NOT covered. Only "an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer" blah blah blah "AND HAS STATUTORY POWERS OF ARREST."

The original bill was going to apply to corrections, janitors, meter maids, etc. because of some rediculous input from a warden in CA, but the STATUTORY POWERS OF ARREST portion was rightfully added in the 11th hour.

If you don't train with/carry a firearm at work, why should be aloud to off duty. That is some serious liability. Nobody is saying you can't carry. If you want to be a cop, be a cop, otherwise get a CCW.

Sorry guys, better luck next time.

http://www.ipacops.org/PDF/HR218%20Passes.pdf#search=%22hr218%22

Bowles
08-22-2006, 11:20 PM
Corrections Officers are NOT covered. Only "an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer" blah blah blah "AND HAS STATUTORY POWERS OF ARREST."

The original bill was going to apply to corrections, janitors, meter maids, etc. because of some rediculous input from a warden in CA, but the STATUTORY POWERS OF ARREST portion was rightfully added in the 11th hour.

If you don't train with/carry a firearm at work, why should be aloud to off duty. That is some serious liability. Nobody is saying you can't carry. If you want to be a cop, be a cop, otherwise get a CCW.

Sorry guys, better luck next time.

http://www.ipacops.org/PDF/HR218%20Passes.pdf#search=%22hr218%22

The text of the bill expressly gives the authority to carry off duty to correctional officers who have statutory powers of arrest.
I don't know how you guys in GA do it but we do train with and carry firearms. No one in here has claimed to be a cop, the debate is over which c/o's are covered. Obviously if you are a correctional officer with no powers of arrest you are not. In NC we have only one, the arrest of a escaped inmate. HB218 does not state that the arrest powers be unlimited only that you have them. Because we have only one power of arrest I do not carry under this law because I believe we may be on some iffy ground. Currently I have letters sent to the US and NC Attorney General office's looking for a yes or no answer to this question.

In case you haven't read this law here is the text applying it to correctional officers.

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

(Incarceration is a big word that means someone who is in jail, prison, locked up etc)

The name of the Bill is the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, not the Police Officer Safety act.
Believe it or not most C/O's know they are not cops and do not try to suggest otherwise, but we are Law Enforcement Officers.

KenW.
08-23-2006, 12:17 AM
and has statutory powers of arrest;

So when someone violates the law while in your jail, do you arrest them more?

Just what is the definition of "statutory" as applies within the scope of this passage? Our Jail Deputies do not have power of arrest, unless also certified Cat 1 and working in that capacity as a reserve in patrol or another division.

Bowles
08-23-2006, 12:29 AM
NC correctional officers have only one power of arrest, the arrest of an escaped inmate. That is the whole reason I sent a letter to the US AG's office.
For crimes committed inside the facility we do not "arrest" we do investigate and charge for everything except crimes involving staff or the death of an inmate.

On a side note, HB 218 was lobbied for by Lt. Steve Young the former National President of the FOP. One of the examples he cited as an example of the need for this bill was this:

Correctional Officer Leslie John Besci, a sixteen-year veteran with the North Carolina Department of Corrections who was beaten to death with a baseball bat in an unprovoked attack. The officer had just returned from work when he was attacked by two former inmates of the prison where he worked.

Statutory, as it was explained to me by the NC AG's Office simply means there is some statute in law that gives you some power of arrest.

RdSqdCO
08-23-2006, 01:13 AM
NC correctional officers have only one power of arrest, the arrest of an escaped inmate. That is the whole reason I sent a letter to the US AG's office.
For crimes committed inside the facility we do not "arrest" we do investigate and charge for everything except crimes involving staff or the death of an inmate.

On a side note, HB 218 was lobbied for by Lt. Steve Young the former National President of the FOP. One of the examples he cited as an example of the need for this bill was this:

Correctional Officer Leslie John Besci, a sixteen-year veteran with the North Carolina Department of Corrections who was beaten to death with a baseball bat in an unprovoked attack. The officer had just returned from work when he was attacked by two former inmates of the prison where he worked.


C/O Besci was found murdered in his kitchen with his hands and feet bound, he was murdered by two former inmates of the prison facility where he worked.

HR 218:
“(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;
“(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
“(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;
“(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;
“(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
“(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
“(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

NC General Statute 148-4:
The authorized agents of the Secretary shall have all the authority of peace officers for the purpose of transferring prisoners from place to place in the State as their duties might require and for apprehending, arresting , and returning to prison escaped prisoners, and may be commissioned by the Governor, either generally or specially, as special officers for returning escaped prisoners or other fugitives from justice from outside the State, when such persons have been extradited or voluntarily surrendered.

Response from Tim Richardson when asked about HR 218:
You are correct--in order to meet the definition of "qualified active law enforcement officer," you must have statutory powers of arrest. It does not matter how limited in scope these powers may be , but they must be derived from statute.

You will note that the portion of the definition you quote above is truncated and reads more completely: is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, prosecution or the incarceration of any person for any violation of law." The Federal law was written in this way specifically to include correctional officers.

I would advise checking with your local lodge attorney or agency head to determine if, in fact, you do have powers of arrest. If you, you are almost certainly included in the Federal law.

I hope this answers your question. If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me immediately.

--Tim


Timothy M. Richardson National Legislative Office
Senior Legislative Liaison Grand Lodge, Fraternal Order of Police
PH: (202) 547-8189 309 Massachusetts Avenue, NE
F: (202) 547-8190 Washington, DC 20002
http://www.grandlodgefop.org

I believe that this answers your questions... :D (Not directed at you Bowles, of course :D )

armoredman
08-23-2006, 02:12 PM
Corrections Officers are NOT covered. Only "an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer" blah blah blah "AND HAS STATUTORY POWERS OF ARREST."

The original bill was going to apply to corrections, janitors, meter maids, etc. because of some rediculous input from a warden in CA, but the STATUTORY POWERS OF ARREST portion was rightfully added in the 11th hour.

If you don't train with/carry a firearm at work, why should be aloud to off duty. That is some serious liability. Nobody is saying you can't carry. If you want to be a cop, be a cop, otherwise get a CCW.

Sorry guys, better luck next time.

http://www.ipacops.org/PDF/HR218%20Passes.pdf#search=%22hr218%22
You know how many cops I know who can't shoot straight? Don't hand me THAT chestnut. Or are you the only one "professional enough to carry this Glock fotay."? Seen that video?
Many many people who neither train professionally with one, or carry one at work, do indeed have a CCW permit, and carry thier firearms regularly. A study done by Cramer and Kopel, titled " Shall Issue;The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws", Golden Colorado, Independant issue Paper, October 17th, 1994, found that 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person, while only 2% of shooting by citizens kill an innocent person. Please don't tell me that your academy or in service training makes you a better choice to be armed off duty. That is an unprovable blanket statement
AZ is intelligent enough to cover COs in state law, granting us the same carry authority as sworn peace officers. The Dept has some additional restrictions, but we do not require a CCW permit. I always urge staff to get as much training as possible, in Dept and outside.

wupd_carter
08-23-2006, 04:13 PM
I always carry off duty no matter where i go......u never know when ya need a fire arm where i live

NJChris
08-23-2006, 07:37 PM
Us in the BOP can carry off duty. Yes we do carry at work in certain job dutys and details. Whether be a 9mm , shotgun or M16 lol and sometimes all 3 at the same time> :D

California C.O.
08-24-2006, 11:44 PM
So when someone violates the law while in your jail, do you arrest them more?



Yes, crimes do happen inside jail...rapes, assaults, extortion, homicides. We arrest them just like someone on the streets (Miranda Rights, crime report, DA review, all the same) therefore statutory powers of arrest inside the jail. Granted they are already in jail, but they are arrested and charged with new crimes.

KenW.
08-25-2006, 12:43 AM
Our jail guys file for additional charges, or go for administrative hearings/change classification or other in-house stuff, not arrest since they're already in custody. Here, serving a summons is not an arrest. If a major crime occurs, a detective is assigned to investigate, he'll make the arrest. Jailers detain and enforce the judgement (sentance) of the court. Guess it's different depending on your location and state code.

RdSqdCO
08-26-2006, 01:45 AM
Our jail guys file for additional charges, or go for administrative hearings/change classification or other in-house stuff, not arrest since they're already in custody. Here, serving a summons is not an arrest. If a major crime occurs, a detective is assigned to investigate, he'll make the arrest. Jailers detain and enforce the judgement (sentance) of the court. Guess it's different depending on your location and state code.


That is very true, each state, county and city varies widely on facilities and how they are operated, as well as the authority given to their officers.

D.T.O.M
08-26-2006, 07:42 AM
http://www.ipacops.org/PDF/HR218%20Passes.pdf#search=%22hr218%22[/url]


I Qualify every year, and train on the range 3-4 times a year, same as our road deputies. Hell, im a better shot then most of them also. I EXCEED all state standards required by all peace officers to carry a weapon on duty.

AND IM A C/O.

Are you trying to insinuate that C/O's arent as worthy to protect themselves and families as police offiers are?

You guys see the person for MAYBE 3 hours then hand them to us, then they learn our faces after seeing us day in and day out. They learn what kinnd of car we drive, Hell, I have had inmates tell me my friggin liscence plate #.

Yet im not allowed to carry off duty. Im easily replaceable caus im not a cop.

Yet if I was to work for a different county that deputizes their C/O's and allows them to carry off duty, would that be any different to you?

:mad:

TacEMT783
08-26-2006, 09:21 AM
I am in the academy to be a CO right now.... When I graduate I will be sworn in as a LEO for my states Largest law enforcement agency... the DOC. While in the academy I have to qualify with several different firearms and gas guns also, then every year I have to go back and requal. When I graduate I will have the same powers of arrest that any state police officer has. The prisons have Patrol divisions as well as Investigations.... so what makes me or any other CO less of a LEO then a street cop....? I don't get what is up with that.... If you read HR 218 we are all the same and we CAN carry our weapon off duty

D.T.O.M
08-26-2006, 09:31 AM
I dont get this "You are just a C/O " thing. It really makes me mad.


I love it when people who work in PODUNK counties and towns talk to me about how I dont really do anything and dont have to worry about getting injured. Then I reminnd them that I live in chicago and work in a county bordering COOK (We get alot of people from cook and ICE).

There really is no need for it. No our jobs arent EXACTLY the same, but they have their similarities and they are equaly as dangerous.


IMHO the qualifications and hiring process for a C/O should be the same as a P/O. I know in some counties they arent, and the state DOC;s usually arent either.

Bowles
08-26-2006, 10:41 AM
For most NC Police Departments the only difference in the qualifications for Police v/s Corrections is police applicants must complete the Basic Law Enforcement Training (BLET) given at local community colleges.
The DOC will send you to training once you're hired.

snkbyt1
08-26-2006, 10:49 AM
after reading this thread, my feelings are

at work: "No Glocks Just Locks" / "No Guns Just Guts"
"Corrections, the toughest beat on the block"

off work: I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6

and lastly, if you don't practice shooting with what you carry then why not have a car you never drive

KenW.
08-26-2006, 12:11 PM
A Deputy (road or corrections) in my agency can get a state CCW at no charge with a letter from the Sheriff, provided they've been through Office training and have qualified. All they need to do is say "yes" when offered. That still doesn't allow COs law enforcement power, but does increase personal safety.

TacEMT783
08-26-2006, 12:25 PM
What agency do you work for that you have to get a CCW? if your a cop then you dont need one by Fedral law... GUYS I THINKS I SMELLS ME A RAT.....

KenW.
08-26-2006, 12:44 PM
TacEMT, I NEVER said we HAVE to get a CCW. Why do people read more into a post than is there?

In order to carry within agency policy when off-duty, you must carry your badge and ID. Many feel that would put them in additional jeopardy should they become found out during a robbery attempt at a bank stop, 7/11, or similar. Our Sheriff understands this and offers the CCW. Pretty simple, eh?

This policy also pre-dates HR 218, when many states would recognize and reciprocate our CCW, but not officially accept an out of state LEO ID. Also, some state may notice the title "Corrections Deputy" and not think they are eligible under 218. We'd be depending on professional courtesy, in places where it could be limited, or a more liberal officer may not believe in it.

It also negates the required NICS check when I buy a new gun.

Methinks that should make more sense to you now.

D.T.O.M
08-26-2006, 02:38 PM
It also negates the required NICS check when I buy a new gun.

Methinks that should make more sense to you now.


No this part doesnt make sense at all.

How does it negate a NCIS check? Civilians gett the NCIS check done.......Sworn Officers get a letter head from their department stating they are LAW ENFORCEMENT and dont need to have it done seeing as the background check required to be hired as such is MUCH more extensive then an NCIS check.

Either way, I dont see how that plays into what we are talking about at all? HR218 doesnt have anything to do with it, ccw's dont have anything to do with it, and being able to carry offf duty on your badge and ID doesnt have anything to do with it.


What kind of screwed up place do you live in?

I live in IL where we dont have a CCW. Officers are the ONLY people ALLOWED to carry a fire arm off duty around here. Most places extend the courtasy, specialy here in chicago.

D.T.O.M
08-26-2006, 02:48 PM
In order to carry within agency policy when off-duty, you must carry your badge and ID. Many feel that would put them in additional jeopardy should they become found out during a robbery attempt at a bank stop, 7/11, or similar. Our Sheriff understands this and offers the CCW. Pretty simple, eh?

This policy also pre-dates HR 218, when many states would recognize and reciprocate our CCW, but not officially accept an out of state LEO ID. Also, some state may notice the title "Corrections Deputy" and not think they are eligible under 218.



What? You really make no sense.

First you only need your ID, thats it. You do NOT have to have your badge with you. Second....... what do you do, hang your badge from your neck when you are off duty or something? How is having your department ID ANY different then having your CCW? No its not any simpler. I could understand SORT OF before HR 218, but you have to remember, MANY states dont recognize each others CCW's. Come to IL with that thing, youll be arrested on the spot. If you are an officer though, you stand a better chance.

Ummm, an officer not thinking that a Correctional Deputy not being covered under 218? Im pretty sure that ANY officer could figure out that EVEN IF they are "just a C/O" the title DEPUTY would kind of give it away. I mean, I dunno about maybe some small counties that have no choice, but out here (chicago) the people who get hired arent that stupid.

I dont know, maybe the people where you live wouldnt have all that click in their heads, but im shocked.

NJChris
08-26-2006, 07:02 PM
BADGES ? We Don't Need No Stinking BADGES ! :rolleyes:

or get any for that matter LOL

miked6
08-26-2006, 07:15 PM
C/O Besci was found murdered in his kitchen with his hands and feet bound, he was murdered by two former inmates of the prison facility where he worked.

HR 218:
“(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;
“(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
“(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;
“(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;
“(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
“(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
“(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

NC General Statute 148-4:
The authorized agents of the Secretary shall have all the authority of peace officers for the purpose of transferring prisoners from place to place in the State as their duties might require and for apprehending, arresting , and returning to prison escaped prisoners, and may be commissioned by the Governor, either generally or specially, as special officers for returning escaped prisoners or other fugitives from justice from outside the State, when such persons have been extradited or voluntarily surrendered.

Response from Tim Richardson when asked about HR 218:
You are correct--in order to meet the definition of "qualified active law enforcement officer," you must have statutory powers of arrest. It does not matter how limited in scope these powers may be , but they must be derived from statute.

You will note that the portion of the definition you quote above is truncated and reads more completely: is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, prosecution or the incarceration of any person for any violation of law." The Federal law was written in this way specifically to include correctional officers.

I would advise checking with your local lodge attorney or agency head to determine if, in fact, you do have powers of arrest. If you, you are almost certainly included in the Federal law.

I hope this answers your question. If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me immediately.

--Tim


Timothy M. Richardson National Legislative Office
Senior Legislative Liaison Grand Lodge, Fraternal Order of Police
PH: (202) 547-8189 309 Massachusetts Avenue, NE
F: (202) 547-8190 Washington, DC 20002
http://www.grandlodgefop.org

I believe that this answers your questions... :D (Not directed at you Bowles, of course :D )


I love it. Everyone gets so fired up and wants to sling “big words” like incarceration (clearly demonstrating the fact that you finished the 6th grade, congrats). In GA, CO’s do not have statutory power of arrest above beyond any other citizen. CO’s in GA are not covered. By the way, I love the title…

“---Tim

Senior Executive Really Important Guy for some Organization that doesn’t mean s#*t to me”

Thanks Tim. The highlighting of the words incarceration and arresting were quintessential to the strength of your argument.

You can truncate your argument as much as you like but it does not change the simple principles of the law.

It is simple…if the state recognizes you as a certified peace officer, and you can take people to jail, you can carry concealed nationwide. If the state doesn’t, you can’t.

I wish I could simplify it a little more, but I not as well educated as Tim.

KenW.
08-26-2006, 07:46 PM
Much like I do not know NC, or other state's laws, of course, you can't be familiar with my Agency policy. I should have stated in my prior post "in order to be within MY agency policy..."

I follow my policy; It REQUIRES ID AND BADGE to carry off-duty if you don't have a CCW. We get it free; what's so difficult about that?

When buying a handgun, you must go through a background check if even if you're a cop, a CCW holder does not. I know, it is wierd. I do not carry a letter signed by my Sheriff to every gunshow I attend, so it is convienient to carry a CCW.

A key phrase in 218 is:

has statutory powers of arrest; My state's COs do not, unless they've also completed the LE block of the academy. We have Deputies in Enforcement, and Deputies in Corrections. Different POST certifications.

Also: after re-reading the entire text of 218, the officer must be authorized by his agency to carry a firearm. Not all COs are.

Bowles
08-26-2006, 09:14 PM
Thankfully, I am not employed by Georgia.

D.T.O.M
08-27-2006, 06:44 AM
Much like I do not know NC, or other state's laws, of course, you can't be familiar with my Agency policy. I should have stated in my prior post "in order to be within MY agency policy..."

I follow my policy; It REQUIRES ID AND BADGE to carry off-duty if you don't have a CCW. We get it free; what's so difficult about that?

When buying a handgun, you must go through a background check if even if you're a cop, a CCW holder does not. I know, it is wierd. I do not carry a letter signed by my Sheriff to every gunshow I attend, so it is convienient to carry a CCW.

A key phrase in 218 is:
My state's COs do not, unless they've also completed the LE block of the academy. We have Deputies in Enforcement, and Deputies in Corrections. Different POST certifications.

Also: after re-reading the entire text of 218, the officer must be authorized by his agency to carry a firearm. Not all COs are.


See now that clarifies the previous statements a little. Still makes no damn sense when you really look at it though. They give private citizens with CCW's more leway when it comes to purchasing and carrying fire arms then they do the police? What *** backwards state do you live in?

Different certifications don't mean anything as far as powers of arrest and carry abilities They only make a difference as far as performance of duties are concerned. As far as counties are concerned anyways out here. IL state DOC is completely diffferent from our counties. Some counties deputize, some dont. The Sheriff is the one who decides if his officers will have arrest powers or the ability to carry off duty. Some of us even go through Laws of arrest training and any other training as needed. Some counties even pull Deputized C/O's to be on teams that DO make arrests like fugitive warrents and such.

RdSqdCO
08-27-2006, 08:01 AM
I love it. Everyone gets so fired up and wants to sling “big words” like incarceration (clearly demonstrating the fact that you finished the 6th grade, congrats). In GA, CO’s do not have statutory power of arrest above beyond any other citizen. CO’s in GA are not covered. By the way, I love the title…

“---Tim

Senior Executive Really Important Guy for some Organization that doesn’t mean s#*t to me”

Thanks Tim. The highlighting of the words incarceration and arresting were quintessential to the strength of your argument.

You can truncate your argument as much as you like but it does not change the simple principles of the law.

It is simple…if the state recognizes you as a certified peace officer, and you can take people to jail, you can carry concealed nationwide. If the state doesn’t, you can’t.

I wish I could simplify it a little more, but I not as well educated as Tim.


Umm.. the big words you are referring to were put there by Congress.. I do not work for the state of Georgia... I work for North Carolina... Tim holds a high post for an organization that lobbies for laws that benifit people in our profession, so Id say his organization should mean s**t to you, and everyone else that works with you... if you would read a little closer, it says that the FEDERAL LAW was written with that particular "big word" to specifically include correctional officers.. You are correct (i'm pretty sure this was obvious) if your state does not grant you powers of arrest in statute, you are not covered by HR 218... If they do, no matter if you only have them while on duty, or concerning only convicts or pre-trial detainees, then you are covered by HR 218.. Thats about as simple as it gets.

I included the North Carolina General Statute where those employed by NCDOC get our limited powers of arrest, hence we are covered. I hate that your state doesnt recognize the fact that adding this simple line of text to the statute concerning your department would allow you to carry concealed nation wide. Maybe if you contacted that important guy with that organization that doesnt mean s**t to you, he may be able to get some law makers in your state to introduce a bill that would allow you to be covered by HR 218, but, if you dont care that you arent covered then, well, take your chances and hope you never find yourself needing the firearm you cant carry... Good luck and stay safe..

P.S.
I madde it thru the aith graid... hehe... :D

KenW.
08-29-2006, 02:14 AM
They give private citizens with CCW's more leeway when it comes to purchasing and carrying fire arms then they do the police?

Actually, no; off-duty LEO can carry all over the state (with ID and badge), with the normal restrictions like, secure areas of airports, federal buildings, mental treatment centers, jails, etc. C/O's may not. And, as you know, for HR 218 to cover you, your Agency has to grant you statutory powers of arrest and authorize your carrying of weapons.

Here, C/Os are not considered LEO, unless they've completed an additional block of POST training.

Catagory I block qualifies one for paid employment as a LEO
Catagory II block qualifies you as a reserve or other special function officer
Corrections block qualifies one for employment in a county jail or state prison/probation & parole
The Sheriff will get a CCW free of charge for you once you've shot the Office qual course. Just provide the photo.

The way our law is written, a CCW means you don't need a background check when buying a gun. With a letter from the administrator of your department, we're good too. As stated before: I just do not get a letter before going to every gun show. Since we don't have a single type or style of ID for ALL LEOs statewide, the legislature felt there are too many styles of Official ID out there in use. Too many for a gun counter sales person at outdoor wearhouse to become familiar with. With a CCW it is all standardized.

I think that's as clear as it gets.

Landric
08-29-2006, 10:53 AM
North Carolina is basically the same way. Anyone with a CHP can purchase a handgun or longgun without a NCIS check. A law enforcement officer can purchase a handgun without a permit on badge and ID, but the weapon has to be for official use to comply with the law. Otherwise the officer needs either a CHP or a pistol purchase permit (for a handgun) or a NCIS check (for a longgun).

I was not aware the CO's in NC had any arrest authority. Since it appears that they do, though it is limited, they might well be covered by HR218.

C/O Beatdown
08-30-2006, 10:51 PM
From this website Link (http://njlawman.com/Feature%20Pieces/HR%20218.htm)


For whom does HR 218 apply?
This law applies to persons who meet the definition listed below of a "Qualified Law Enforcement Officer."

qualified law enforcement officer means an employee of a governmental agency who--

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

`(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

`(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.


From the nevada revised statutes

PERSONS POSSESSING POWERS OF PEACE OFFICERS

NRS 289.150 Sheriffs, their deputies and correctional officers; city and town marshals, policemen and correctional officers; court bailiffs; constables and their deputies. The following persons have the powers of a peace officer:

1. Sheriffs of counties and of metropolitan police departments, their deputies and correctional officers.

2. Marshals, policemen and correctional officers of cities and towns.

3. The bailiff of the Supreme Court.

4. The bailiffs of the district courts, Justice Courts and municipal courts whose duties require them to carry weapons and make arrests.

5. Constables and their deputies whose official duties require them to carry weapons and make arrests.

(Added to NRS by 1993, 2520)—(Substituted in revision for NRS 281.0311)


In nevada we are Category III peace officer. We are P.O.S.T. certified. We have to qualify with several different types of firearms, we have to carry are firearms on all transports. Nevada also gives us the right to carry on the badge we are granted that from the nevada revised statutes. I think Nevada's C/O's fall under HR-218 but before I go packing in other states I am going to get the ok from the AG's office if i can....

RdSqdCO
08-30-2006, 11:07 PM
C/O Beatdown,
In my research, I found that the key to C/O's being covered is statutory powers of arrest, so if indeed NRS 289.150 gives you any powers of arrest, even if its just while on duty, only for escaped convicts etc... then you are covered by HR 218.

KenW.
08-31-2006, 11:17 AM
Caveaut in that law is: Statutory powers of arrest AND authorized by agency to carry a firearm.

If you are; then fantastic, you're covered.

Bowles
09-01-2006, 02:51 AM
NC C/O's and I suspect all US C/O's are authorized to carry firearms on duty. True I don't carry one everyday, and the law doesn't say "authorized to carry off duty"

Again, I have sent a letter to the US and NC AG's office for an official answer as to if this law applies to us (NC). It appears that we are covered, but I don't wanna wind up as the "test case"

TacEMT783
09-09-2006, 11:00 AM
What my question is is how do you guys carry? Do you use a pancake holster or a shoulder or a boot or what? I am trying to decide what kind of holster or holsters i need to get.... also back to the origanal question do you carry cuffs or extra mags?

kodger
09-09-2006, 12:25 PM
If I'm working a side job, I carry my Glock 45 in a shouldr rig. All other times, I've got a nice little S&W Airweight on my belt or in my pocket.

California C.O.
09-09-2006, 11:12 PM
No cuffs or extra mags, just an IWB C-tac holster for a glock 30. You just have to be sure you get pants 2 sizes larger than normal. Also buy baggy shirts so the gun won't "print" and grandma at the grocery store won't freak out and call 911. Either way, if you are made don't be surprised you get proned out on the street until they figure out who you are. For me, the novelty of carrying ran out real quick as most can attest to. It's a real pain in the rear (sometimes literally) carrying, very uncomfortable and you always have to be congnizant of accidentally showing your piece.

RdSqdCO
09-10-2006, 03:45 AM
I carry IWB Glock 30 now, was carrying H&K USP .45, but it is very bulky and not at all comfortable, so I got the Glock, a little more easily concealed. As was mentioned before, wear baggy shirt so the weapon will not "print". As for extra mags, cuffs and such, no extra mags on my person, but in my vehicle.. which is where my duty belt is, which has my cuffs and pepper spray. My philosophy on that is, "Its better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."
I also have a shoulder rig, depending on where I'm going and what time of year it is. If its cold, I usually wear the shoulder rig under a jacket, warm weather is IWB.

Kokoro
09-10-2006, 02:55 PM
I personally carry a Steyr M9 9mm with 1-15rd mag loaded with +p

No spare mags
No cuffs (no peace officer status--no arrest powers in my state, no cuff key)
No CN (IDOC would probably fire you for that)

Like others, I don't carry that often.

Bnathanb1982
09-20-2006, 11:05 PM
Here in Georgia, we do have statutory powers of arrest as a correctional officer for the state. The arrest powers are only within your job duties of course but we have them anywhere from

1.Arresting a fellow coworker for commiting a misdemeanor or felony on juristiction of the department,
2.A civilian commits a misdemeanor or felony on juristiction of the department
3.Anyone commiting a crime outside the department but involving an offender within the Dept. Juristiction, such as: A. Aiding an escape
B. Hindering apprehension of fugitive
C. Obstruction of an officer

That is straight from the policy

iflyaaord
09-21-2006, 12:15 AM
I'm with Cook County and we are fully sworn so there is no issue with having to deal with CCW permits. I carry badge, cuffs, and Sig 226 DAK with 1 mag.

Jabrim
10-07-2006, 03:28 AM
I carry my Springfield XD sub-compact .40 just about everywhere I go. Since I'm entitled to I look at it as "why not?".


- Jason

armoredman
10-07-2006, 01:16 PM
Response from our Attorney Gen liasion about HR218 is NO for line staff, only those who have become POST certified. Sorry for ADC, but we will never become a POST certified agency, too many who could never qualify.

detsarg
10-07-2006, 02:14 PM
I urge all COs to use great caution when relying solely on HR 218 to carry concealed while off duty. I know there is clause that contains the word “incarceration” but that clause, like so many other things written by politicians and lawyers, is very vague.

If you are basing your decision to carry only on the authority allegedly given in HR 218, I would highly recommend that you do everything in your power to get legal confirmation of that authority.

I’m no big fan of labor unions but if you are in one, MAKE them earn the money you pay them every month. Demand that your union seek written legal confirmation of how HR 218 pertains to COs carrying concealed firearms while off duty. This written confirmation should come directly from the Office of the Attorney General in your state. And make sure it is crystal clear and not ambiguous like some legal opinions.

You should also have your union obtain written confirmation from your agency that they are in receipt of the AG’s legal opinion and that they recognize its interpretation of HR 218. You pay the union dues; make them work for your money.

The clarity in the AG’s opinion could mean the difference between you being charged with a felony and having the ability to protect yourself while off duty. DO NOT accept the legal opinion of a union lawyer, your shift supervisor or someone one an Internet forum who thinks he can decipher federal law.

Bowles
10-08-2006, 02:48 AM
Vague? I think it seems pretty clear.


`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

I do not carry under this law, because of the statutory powers of arrest line. NC Officers have only one statutory power of arrest, the arrest of an escaped inmate. I have contacted the state AG's Office who said they could NOT interpret Federal Law and suggested that I contact the Federal AG's office which I have also done. Until I hear back from them I will not carry under this law. NC Correctional Officers meet all the criteria laid out by this law, but I want to hear it from someone in some authority before I carry under it. In fact one of the arguments used when lobbying for this bill was the case of a NC Correctional Officer killed while off duty by two former inmates. If we had full arrest powers I would feel confident carrying solely under this law.

bullseye48
10-09-2006, 10:44 AM
I was a Corrections Officer for 6 years with the State Of Georgia and am now a Police Officer. I have not read all of the posts on the question about COs carrying off duty but I see it this way. I will not arrest ANY Corrections Officer for carrying a handgun. I dont care about the questions posed concerning arrest power, training, and so forth. We are all on the same team here, and in Georgia a CO is a Peace Officer.

detsarg
10-09-2006, 11:42 AM
I was a Corrections Officer for 6 years with the State Of Georgia and am now a Police Officer. I have not read all of the posts on the question about COs carrying off duty but I see it this way. I will not arrest ANY Corrections Officer for carrying a handgun. I dont care about the questions posed concerning arrest power, training, and so forth. We are all on the same team here, and in Georgia a CO is a Peace Officer.

I feel the EXACT same way bullseye. I worked in correction and now I’m on the "police" side of things.

In Florida COs can carry concealed off duty by statute so that’s not an issue. Even though our statutes don't make room for out of state COs to carry and even if it were interpreted that HR 218 did not cover out of state COs, I would not arrest a CO for CCF. They see the scum of the earth like we do and I would not blame them for carrying while visiting Florida.

I carry when I am out of state on vacation. Maybe not always on my person, but I hate the idea of being in a hotel room or broken down in a rental car without knowing my gun is on me or close by.

HOWEVER, as we all know, some officers will take this issue strictly by the written law. That is why I highly recommend, as I noted previously, that COs get official legal verification of their ability to carry granted under HR218.

DaytonaBeachCO
10-09-2006, 12:49 PM
HOWEVER, as we all know, some officers will take this issue strictly by the written law. That is why I highly recommend, as I noted previously, that COs get official legal verification of their ability to carry granted under HR218.
Where could I obtain that info?

armoredman
10-09-2006, 02:25 PM
Go through both your attorney general liasion, and your union. That's what I am doing right now.

detsarg
10-09-2006, 02:31 PM
Where could I obtain that info?
That is indeed the $64,000 question.

I suppose an individual could request a legal interpretation from the attorney general but there is more power in number.

I would recommend that those COs that belong to a labor union require that their union start earning all the money you pay them.

The PBA or FOP or what ever group represents COs, should request a legal clarification from the attorney general and that clarification should be crystal clear or further explanation should be sought.

Also, the union should demand, as part of a contract if necessary, that the employing agency acknowledge the opinion of the AG.

I mentioned some of this is a previous post in this thread.

MD2020
10-13-2006, 10:29 AM
Depends on what I am wearing that day. I will either have a Kel-Tec P-11 in a IWB or a commander size 1911 in a IWB. As it is hot here in the south.

kodger
10-13-2006, 03:38 PM
So...40calmikey....you're not in law enforcement, from "the land of hippies and gangstas"....why the interest?

40calibermikey
10-13-2006, 07:53 PM
Well I was just curious. I'm almost done with the hiring stages of CDCr and figured that it could be an interesting conversation......Anyways the thread turned into a HR 218 discussion.

Did I strike a nerve Kodger?

FalconRider
10-21-2006, 01:03 AM
Being a full time corrections and reserve police officer, I luckily don't have to worry about whether 218 covers me. However, 218 is fairly clear in that you have to be qualified with a handgun and be a sworn officer.

I don't know about you guys but I wasn't qualified on a handgun until I became a member of our e-squad and I was never sworn in.

Might be something to consider.

armoredman
10-21-2006, 01:23 PM
AZCOPS sent me an e-mail in response to my request, and said they will get an official ruling. As it stands, I expect only those staff who are POST certified to be able to carry on HR218. No biggie. get a civilian CCW permit, and check packing.org to all the states that honor them. AZ honors almost all other states' CCW permits now.

Thek9
10-21-2006, 01:59 PM
Roger That ArmoredMan,

CCW no problem, .40 Sig 229 SAS Even less problems.

As The Saying goes "Better judged by 12 , Then carried by 6"!!!

Alfred D.Hughes
10-26-2006, 09:56 AM
Ex Navy SEAL background and Class III License.. My Carry is a CZ-75 IWB. But for Home Protection I have an H&K MP5SD. No need to wake the kids.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/groland/MachineGun.gif

JJ151
01-04-2007, 12:10 PM
Hey CO1989 I was just wondering what facility you work in?

NJChris
01-04-2007, 01:13 PM
My CCW rig is a Para 1911 45 cal. :)

armoredman
01-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Alfred, good choice in carry gun! CZs rock.
When you say class III license, are you a SOT, FFL, or just pay the $200 NFA tax stamp? MP5SD would be an interesting choice for indoors, how far does subsonic ammo penetrate wall board, or do you still use standard ammo? Last I heard the 9mm 147gr subsonics were not the greatest stoppers, but if you're dumping large numbers of them into a target, that would certainly do it!

1991gulfwarvet
01-05-2007, 03:07 AM
I carry my SA XD.45acp service or My freshly home built Essex Stainless 1911.

If you check out www.M1911.org you can see photos and build details.

In FL we can carry on our badge, But I have a CCW so I'm covered out of state.

Unfortunately, even though C.O.'s are considered LEO in FL , since we have no arrest powers off duty, HR218 doesn't cover us.

That is very unfair since we put our ***** on the line like any other LEO. That Law needs to include C.O.'s too.

Or FDLE needs to upgrade C.O.'s by granting us arrest powers 24/7. That would solve the problem .

rondawg
01-08-2007, 12:32 AM
I normally carry my .40 caliber Berretta w/ my 2 extra mags and one set of cuffs just in case I need them. The department I work for does not like us to carry them because they do not want us to make arrest. However, you have to do what you have to do is the way they look at it.

booter78
01-08-2007, 11:20 AM
I carry on CCW, state of TN officers can can on their badge at 5 yrs. I went ahead and got the CCW. Being is it is cooler this time of year I carry Glock23c(usually wear a jacket to conceal).

I also get a nice pick up in salary by doing bail recovery. A local bail recovery agent calls me up to go with them on recoveries a few times a week. At $500 bucks everytime I go with them, can't beat it.

AZCO
01-09-2007, 12:36 PM
ALWAYS carry my Glock 19 concealed. The one time I didnt since the academy, I walked into a store and immediately spotted a guy with all the 'white boy' prison tats- SS lightning bolts, vikings, swastika, etc.
Nothing happened, but he noticed me and I noticed him.

CODASHER
01-09-2007, 02:32 PM
I carry a Glock 23 (.40) with one mag in , no cuffs. 13 in the mag and 1 in the chamber ought to do it. If i can't do it with that i roll over to the Bersa .380 with 6 in the mag and one in the chamber. Who else do you know that carries a .40 and .380 on a regular basis?

TX_CO
01-21-2007, 04:06 PM
I carry a Sig 226, strongside OWB, with at least one reload (17rd mags I use) and no cuffs etc.
Here we are not Peace Officers and have almost zero statutory authority and are not certified by anyone but our agency (TDCJ). We are authorized to carry weapons on duty only in certain positions, we are not authorized to carry off duty. I have a Concealed Handgun License (CCW) and I do carry off duty all the time.

Our agency (State DOC) hires 18 year olds as CO's, so our status will never change.

NJPrisonCop
01-22-2007, 09:14 AM
Glock 23. I carry cuffs at all times when I am carrying off duty. it is required in NJ, and i would rather have them anyhow in case something goes down.

Scott

PPDMO373
01-22-2007, 09:23 AM
Here we are not Peace Officers and have almost zero statutory authority and are not certified by anyone but our agency (TDCJ). We are authorized to carry weapons on duty only in certain positions, we are not authorized to carry off duty. I have a Concealed Handgun License (CCW) and I do carry off duty all the time.

That's how Missouri is as well......

hankrearden2000
01-22-2007, 04:01 PM
Missouri law allows wardens, jailers, and keepers of jails and prisons to carry without a permit. That statute predates the concealed weapons law by decades if not centuries.

hankrearden2000
01-22-2007, 04:05 PM
For good discussion on LEOSA:

http://www.policemag.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=48

PPDMO373
01-22-2007, 04:13 PM
Missouri law allows wardens, jailers, and keepers of jails and prisons to carry without a permit. That statute predates the concealed weapons law by decades if not centuries.

I was always taught that wasn't the case...... what statute is that..?

hankrearden2000
01-23-2007, 03:34 AM
http://www.moga.state.mo.us/statutes/C500-599/5710000030.HTM


Missouri Revised Statutes
Chapter 571
Weapons Offenses
Section 571.030

August 28, 2006


Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.
571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

(1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or
(2) Sets a spring gun; or

(3) Discharges or shoots a firearm into a dwelling house, a railroad train, boat, aircraft, or motor vehicle as defined in section 302.010, RSMo, or any building or structure used for the assembling of people; or

(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or

(5) Possesses or discharges a firearm or projectile weapon while intoxicated; or

(6) Discharges a firearm within one hundred yards of any occupied schoolhouse, courthouse, or church building; or

(7) Discharges or shoots a firearm at a mark, at any object, or at random, on, along or across a public highway or discharges or shoots a firearm into any outbuilding; or

(8) Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof; or

(9) Discharges or shoots a firearm at or from a motor vehicle, as defined in section 301.010, RSMo, discharges or shoots a firearm at any person, or at any other motor vehicle, or at any building or habitable structure, unless the person was lawfully acting in self-defense; or

(10) Carries a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.

2. Subdivisions (1) , (3), (4), (6), (7), (8), (9) and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to or affect any of the following:
(1) All state, county and municipal peace officers who have completed the training required by the** police officer standards and training commission pursuant to sections 590.030 to 590.050, RSMo, and possessing the duty and power of arrest for violation of the general criminal laws of the state or for violation of ordinances of counties or municipalities of the state, whether such officers are on or off duty, and whether such officers are within or outside of the law enforcement agency's jurisdiction, or any person summoned by such officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while actually engaged in assisting such officer;

(2) Wardens, superintendents and keepers of prisons, penitentiaries, jails and other institutions for the detention of persons accused or convicted of crime;
(3) Members of the armed forces or national guard while performing their official duty;

(4) Those persons vested by article V, section 1 of the Constitution of Missouri with the judicial power of the state and those persons vested by Article III of the Constitution of the United States with the judicial power of the United States, the members of the federal judiciary;

(5) Any person whose bona fide duty is to execute process, civil or criminal;

(6) Any federal probation officer;

(7) Any state probation or parole officer, including supervisors and members of the board of probation and parole;

(8) Any corporate security advisor meeting the definition and fulfilling the requirements of the regulations established by the board of police commissioners under section 84.340, RSMo; and

(9) Any coroner, deputy coroner, medical examiner, or assistant medical examiner.

3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event.

4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.

5. Subdivisions (3), (4), (5), (6), (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to persons who are engaged in a lawful act of defense pursuant to section 563.031, RSMo.

6. Nothing in this section shall make it unlawful for a student to actually participate in school-sanctioned gun safety courses, student military or ROTC courses, or other school-sponsored firearm-related events, provided the student does not carry a firearm or other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any other function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.

7. Unlawful use of weapons is a class D felony unless committed pursuant to subdivision (6), (7), or (8) of subsection 1 of this section, in which cases it is a class B misdemeanor, or subdivision (5) or (10) of subsection 1 of this section, in which case it is a class A misdemeanor if the firearm is unloaded and a class D felony if the firearm is loaded, or subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section, in which case it is a class B felony, except that if the violation of subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section results in injury or death to another person, it is a class A felony.

8. Violations of subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section shall be punished as follows:

(1) For the first violation a person shall be sentenced to the maximum authorized term of imprisonment for a class B felony;

(2) For any violation by a prior offender as defined in section 558.016, RSMo, a person shall be sentenced to the maximum authorized term of imprisonment for a class B felony without the possibility of parole, probation or conditional release for a term of ten years;

(3) For any violation by a persistent offender as defined in section 558.016, RSMo, a person shall be sentenced to the maximum authorized term of imprisonment for a class B felony without the possibility of parole, probation, or conditional release;

(4) For any violation which results in injury or death to another person, a person shall be sentenced to an authorized disposition for a class A felony.

9. Any person knowingly aiding or abetting any other person in the violation of subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section shall be subject to the same penalty as that prescribed by this section for violations by other persons.

(RSMo 1939 § 4425, A.L. 1959 H.B. 43, A.L. 1981 H.B. 296, A.L. 1993 H.B. 562 merged with S.B. 250, A.L. 1995 H.B. 160, A.L. 1997 S.B. 367, A.L. 1998 S.B. 478, A.L. 2000 S.B. 944, A.L. 2003 H.B. 349, et al. merged with S.B. 5)
Prior revisions: 1929 § 4031; 1919 § 3277; 1909 § 4498

Effective 6-27-03 (S.B. 5)

10-11-03 (H.B. 349, et al., see § 21.250)

*Transferred 1978; formerly 562.070

*House Bill 349, et al., 2003, was vetoed on July 3, 2003. The veto was overridden on September 11, 2003.

**Word "the" does not appear in original rolls.

CROSS REFERENCES:

Discharging a firearm or weapon at a railroad train or railmounted work equipment while committing a trespass to railroad property, class D felony, RSMo 389.653

Violation of this section may also be a hate crime, RSMo 557.035

(2001) Where defendant exhibited unlawful weapon at distinct times and places and with the requisite intent, each exhibition constitutes a separate offense under section. State v. Barber, 37 S.W.3d 400 (Mo.App.E.D.).

PPDMO373
01-23-2007, 03:54 AM
Once again, was always taught that it was only in the performance of their duties.....and that's what they are putting out in academies......

Plus.....does MO DOC allow it...? Hell.....they (DOC) just finally let P&P Officer's carry a couple of years ago......and according to that statute they could all along.....

hankrearden2000
01-23-2007, 04:12 AM
Nowhere in Missouri statutes does it say that "keepers" my only carry weapons on duty. There are no court decisions that say that either. It sounds politically motivated to me. I know that one of the biggest disseminators of inaccurate firearms law information is the Jackson County, MO Sheriff's Department. They don't know the law, they just enforce it.

The best source for understanding Missouri's firearms laws is found here:

http://www.kljamisonlaw.com/author.asp

Kevin Jamison is a Board member of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance http://www.wmsa.net/ , a practicing trial attorney, a NRA certified firearms instructor, and one of the persons who helped draft Missouri's concealed weapons law.

PPDMO373
01-23-2007, 04:32 AM
I know who he is.....

From his website....



CCW EXCEPTIONS
Law Enforcement Officers Out of Jurisdiction pages 136-7.
By statute all peace officers possessing the duty and power of arrest may carry conceal “whether such officers are within or outside their jurisdictions or on or off duty.”

On 22 July, 2004, President Bush signed the "Law enforcement Officer's Safety Act", 18 U.S. code section 926B. This act allows active duty law enforcement officers, and qualifying retired officers to carry concealed weapons in any state. It does not specifically refer to U.S. possession or territories such a Puerto Rico or Guam. it does not specifically refer to the District of Columbia. It probably does not apply to Indian Reservations or military reservations. It would appear that it was intended to have broad application; however, it took twelve years to pass this measure, indicating a certain amount of opposition. Given this opposition, its extension into unique federal jurisdictions should not be assumed. New York state law allows concealed carry by prison guards; however, in 1987 Julio Marrero, a federal prison guard stationed in New York was arrested, convicted, and the conviction upheld for carrying a concealed weapon; Robinson WOULD YOU CONVICT New York University Press, N.Y. 1999 at 54-77.
The definition of a law enforcement officer consists of an employee of a governmental agency who "is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any persoon for any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest; . . . ". The employee must also be authorized by his agency to carry a gun and qualify under his department's standards "if any".
While the definition of law enforcement officer refers to an employee engaged in incarceration, the employee must also have the power of arrest. This indicates that the law does not apply to corrections officers. This is unfortunate. While a criminal may not remember the arresting officer, he is almost sure to remember the guard who monitors his movements in the following years.
The law specifically includes retired law enforcement officers who retired in good standing after a total of fifteen (15) years or retired due to a service-connected disability. The retired officer must also meet, at his own expense, his state's standards for firearms training every twelve months. New York City is reported to have a policy of arresting retired officers and seizing the gun until the individual's retired status is confirmed. This sounds unconstitutional as hell.

No where in there did he talk about Missouri DOC.....and he put that in there.....

Once again...I am just going on what I have been taught over the last 10 years or so about Missouri Statute concerning this.....

hankrearden2000
01-23-2007, 05:03 AM
What is the foundation of what you have been taught concerning this statute? Is it based on a legal opinion, AG Opinion? Perhaps MO AG Opinion #89-96?

From Jamison's book beginning on page 137, which deals with the law as it existed prior to the MO CCW law or the LEOSA:


Wardens, superintendents and keepers of prisons or jails are also exempt from the prohibition on concealed weapons. While convicts may remember the law enforcement officer who arrested them, they will certainly remember the jail or prison guard who regulated their existence for months or years. There is no provision confining this exemption to the performance of their duties, but, there is no such statutory language reguarding law enforcement officers either. (Reference here is to the 2-5-96 MO AG Opinion #89-96 which stated that certified and commissioned police officer's privilege of carrying a concealed weapon ended where his jurisdiction's geographical boundaries ended.)

In 1977, Julio Marrero, a federal prison guard, was arrested in New York City for carrying a concealed weapon. New York exempts guards of "any state prison or of any penal correctional institution" from its draconian gun law. The appellate courts ruled that this only applied to state prisons, and casually made a federal prison guard a felon. Missouri's statute does not refer to jurisdictions.The statute exempts "any of the following" and then refers to "Wardens, superintendents and keepers of prisons, penitentiaries, jails and other institutions for the detention of persons accused or convicted of crime." This would indicate an inclusive definition.

RANDALL29
01-23-2007, 08:56 AM
I know who he is.....

From his website....



No where in there did he talk about Missouri DOC.....and he put that in there.....

Once again...I am just going on what I have been taught over the last 10 years or so about Missouri Statute concerning this.....

No disrespect to you, but, Hank know's what he is talking about.

PPDMO373
01-23-2007, 10:22 PM
No disrespect to you, but, Hank know's what he is talking about.

Well no respect to Hank (as I am figuring he worked for MO DOC at one time before going Fed) but I just talked to a med-level DOC Supervisor who told me:


Yes and no let me explain.... The only employees of DOC that are able to carry on an off duty are the fugitive apprehension officers and Probation and Parole Officers who have decided to carry and have gone threw all of DOC gun training requirements. Plus, the respective Probation/Parole Districts must Ok to carry off duty. Most P&P Districts allow it since Probation and Paarole Officers are technically on duty 24/7 if they are needed. By policy, DOC CO's are not allowed to carry off-duty PERIOD. If they try to use that statute to do so and are caught, they may get off of state charges but would certainly be fired by DOC. Hope that helps. Tom

Once again, that's what they (academy's and DOC) are putting out to LE...so that's what I base my comments on......

PPDMO373
01-23-2007, 11:06 PM
To add...

I just talked to Kevin Jamison via email. He opinioned that a MO DOC CO would not get convicted if they were charged in State Court for CCW but they would certainly get fired by DOC.....

So....do you carry and risk the chance of being fired.....or do you not carry under that statute...?

I would think one would be better off going out and getting a CCW permit and going that route.....but that's just me.

hankrearden2000
01-24-2007, 02:42 AM
A CCW is certainly the smartest way to handle it if you work for MO DOC.

Hank has never worked for MO DOC, although he works with many people who did work there before going to work for the BOP.

PPDMO373
01-24-2007, 02:44 AM
Hank has never worked for MO DOC, although he works with many people who did work there before going to work for the BOP.


Sorry.....thought you had....

RANDALL29
01-24-2007, 12:21 PM
To add...

I just talked to Kevin Jamison via email. He opinioned that a MO DOC CO would not get convicted if they were charged in State Court for CCW but they would certainly get fired by DOC.....

So....do you carry and risk the chance of being fired.....or do you not carry under that statute...?

I would think one would be better off going out and getting a CCW permit and going that route.....but that's just me.

If this is true than, I would advise you to switch too an agency that is going to authorize you to carry a weapon legally under the HR 218 law.

PPDMO373
01-24-2007, 12:45 PM
If this is true than, I would advise you to switch too an agency that is going to authorize you to carry a weapon legally under the HR 218 law.

Missouri DOC CO's are not classified as LEO's in the State of Missouri....as such....they do not fall under 218.......

I don't work for them but know a ton of folks that do.....

ColtM4
01-24-2007, 05:43 PM
So what do you guys carry while off duty? Do you carry a sidearm with cuffs or OC spray etc..? Is there anyone who feels that they do not need to carry a sidearm off duty?

NYC Corrections are peace officers w/ arrest powers and statutory power to carry firearms. Here's what they are authorized :

1. S&W - 5946 / 6946 / 3953 / CS9D / 3914
2. Sigarms - P226 / P228 / P225 *Sigs must be DAO/Mag safety
3. Glock - 17 / 19 / 26

3953/CS9D/3914 P225 and all Glocks are off duty only

All officers are advised to carry handcuffs and a spare mag off duty.

PS: I'm retired from that job

PPDMO373
01-25-2007, 03:14 AM
Just to add about Missouri DOC...I got this email from a buddy of mine who is a Major at one of their facilities....and this is what he wrote me....


This statute answers your own question. DOC officers (DOC ranking system: officers, sergeants, lieutenants, captains, and majors) are not Wardens, Superintendents, or keepers of. Missouri has Superintendents (same thing as Wardens), they are under a different classification as the direct line staff. I believe if a DOC officer tried using this statute as a defense to prosecution, he would loose and be convicted, then DOC would fire him for being convicted of a crime.

Fugitive Teams and P&P are commissioned officer under the authority of the Department of Safety, that is why they can carry of duty.


He actually carries because he's a part-time LEO in a small town (that's how I know him) and he has his CCW....which he had before he went to the academy.....

correctionsguy
01-25-2007, 10:23 AM
You know that just because you say the interpretation does not include DOC officers, does not make it so. I believe that statute is very loosely written, as there is probably not a working definition as to what "keepers of" actually pertains to, but I bet since it was written a very long time ago, that it was implemented for "prison guards".

I think if it really came down to a prosecution, which I don't believe it would (what DA wants to prosecute an upstanding CO), there would be much latitude for a Defense attorney to argue that an Officer of the DOC is a "keeper of..." and I believe the argument would stand.

I've found in my time in corrections that the Majors, Capts, and LT's aren't always up on the statutes that a relevant to the field, especially since most of them just don't care.

PPDMO373
01-25-2007, 10:38 AM
You know that just because you say the interpretation does not include DOC officers, does not make it so.

Perhaps....but I am also going on what I have been taught....and what others (including folks that work for MO DOC) have told me.....



I believe that statute is very loosely written, as there is probably not a working definition as to what "keepers of" actually pertains to, but I bet since it was written a very long time ago, that it was implemented for "prison guards".

I have no idea how/why is was written like that.....


I think if it really came down to a prosecution, which I don't believe it would (what DA wants to prosecute an upstanding CO), there would be much latitude for a Defense attorney to argue that an Officer of the DOC is a "keeper of..." and I believe the argument would stand.

I doubt that. If I had P/C to arrest a CO (or anyone for that matter), wrote a good P/C statement......had all the facts together in a report.... all the PA's back home would press on.....that's a fact of life....

Plus, DOC would fire anyone trying to use that statute as they have told all employees that they don't fall under it.....



I've found in my time in corrections that the Majors, Capts, and LT's aren't always up on the statutes that a relevant to the field, especially since most of them just don't care.

Perhaps.....but they are the ones who hire/fire folks in MO....and if they say you can't use it......Your best bet would be to go get a CCW from the State and use that.....

hankrearden2000
01-25-2007, 08:30 PM
Just to add about Missouri DOC...I got this email from a buddy of mine who is a Major at one of their facilities....and this is what he wrote me....

Ouote:
This statute answers your own question. DOC officers (DOC ranking system: officers, sergeants, lieutenants, captains, and majors) are not Wardens, Superintendents, or keepers of. Missouri has Superintendents (same thing as Wardens), they are under a different classification as the direct line staff. I believe if a DOC officer tried using this statute as a defense to prosecution, he would loose and be convicted, then DOC would fire him for being convicted of a crime.Fugitive Teams and P&P are commissioned officer under the authority of the Department of Safety, that is why they can carry of duty.


He actually carries because he's a part-time LEO in a small town (that's how I know him) and he has his CCW....which he had before he went to the academy.....

So, what provision of law do MO DOC COs carry weapons under when they carry them in the performance of their duties?

PPDMO373
01-25-2007, 09:15 PM
So, what provision of law do MO DOC COs carry weapons under when they carry them in the performance of their duties?

I haven't a clue. I do know only certain posts carry them.....though they all qualify on them during the three week academy.

I shall ask.....

correctionsguy
01-26-2007, 12:14 AM
PPD-
Because of my CURRENT position as an Investigator with a State Public Defender's office, I can tell you that it does not matter how good your P/C aff is or whether or not you believe there is P/C to even make the arrest. The fact is that the statute would be shown and the case would be dismissed.

I can't name a prosecutor that I know that would take this to trial or even take it as a case for that matter. I also don't know a judge in my judicial district that would let a DA get past the first dispo hearing, without suggesting the charge be dropped.

This discussion isn't whether or not the employee would be fired, because they probably would if it was against policy. The simple fact is that statute broadly and liberally covers CO's and it would take an EXTREMELY one sided and narrow interpretation to prosecute, which in my opinion and experience would not happen.

You can speak about what you were taught, but that has nothing to do with what the law says. I assume you are a cop because of your language, having said that, it's my opinion that you'd be an a-hole to actually arrest a CO for carrying under this statute. Not to mention, you'd waste the time of the CJ system in the process.

hankrearden2000
01-26-2007, 12:37 AM
I'm guessing here, but I suspect that the folks in Missouri are making a logical inference based on AG Opinion #89-96 that I mentioned above. Mr. Jamison in his book gives the background. Apparently, police officers in Missouri developed the habit of arresting other Missouri police officers who were caught carrying concealed weapons outside of their geographical jurisdictions; even though the above staute explicitly allows them to do so. So, some state legislator requested an opinion of the attorney general as to whether such arrests and prosecutions could be considered legal. The AG ruled that Yes, police officers carrying outside of their geographical jurisdiction were committing a crime.

So, who the hell are these lowly knuckledragging prison guards to think that they have the legal sanction to do what POST certified police officers and deputies may not? Probably a prosecutor would believe that he could sucessfully argue in court that, since the state's attorney was of the opinion that police officers were not allowed to carry even though explicitly authorized, knuckledraggers certainly will not be.

Welcome to The Show-Me State!

RANDALL29
01-26-2007, 09:37 AM
I'm guessing here, but I suspect that the folks in Missouri are making a logical inference based on AG Opinion #89-96 that I mentioned above. Mr. Jamison in his book gives the background. Apparently, police officers in Missouri developed the habit of arresting other Missouri police officers who were caught carrying concealed weapons outside of their geographical jurisdictions; even though the above staute explicitly allows them to do so. So, some state legislator requested an opinion of the attorney general as to whether such arrests and prosecutions could be considered legal. The AG ruled that Yes, police officers carrying outside of their geographical jurisdiction were committing a crime.

So, who the hell are these lowly knuckledragging prison guards to think that they have the legal sanction to do what POST certified police officers and deputies may not? Probably a prosecutor would believe that he could sucessfully argue in court that, since the state's attorney was of the opinion that police officers were not allowed to carry even though explicitly authorized, knuckledraggers certainly will not be.

Welcome to The Show-Me State!
This is absolutely crazy the Law Enforcement officials are not authorize to carry concealed weapons in that state.

RANDALL29
01-26-2007, 09:43 AM
Hank do you know if Federal Officers fall under this crazy law in this particular state.

hankrearden2000
01-26-2007, 01:17 PM
This is absolutely crazy the Law Enforcement officials are not authorize to carry concealed weapons in that state.

That's what the law was then... The legal situation although not the attitudes, has now been corrected, for both citizens and law enforcement.

hankrearden2000
01-26-2007, 01:20 PM
Hank do you know if Federal Officers fall under this crazy law in this particular state.

If such rules were still in effect, they would mean nothing, in most situations, to anyone protected by the LEOSA of 2004.

PPDMO373
01-26-2007, 05:34 PM
This is absolutely crazy the Law Enforcement officials are not authorize to carry concealed weapons in that state.

Effective October 11, 2003 , House Bill 349 allows all Missouri peace officers to carry a concealed weapon whether on or off duty, whether in or out of their jurisdiction.

Davidc
01-28-2007, 09:01 PM
The North Carolina state statute 17A-1 through 17A-9 was recodified as 17C1-17C12
This is the state statute that defines law enforcement officer

Statute 17C-2 defines "Criminal justice officers" as law enforcement officers
State correctional officers in NC are by law, law enforcement officers.
They may not be police officers but are considered law enforcement officers.
Moreover, The do have one power of arrest and according to the FOP are covered under HR 218


1)Chapter 17A.
Law‑Enforcement Officers.
§§ 17A‑1 through 17A‑9. Recodified as §§ 17C‑1 through 17C‑12



2) § 17C‑2. Definitions.
Unless the context clearly otherwise requires, the following definitions apply in this Chapter:
(1) Commission. – The North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission.
(2) Criminal justice agencies. – The State and local law‑enforcement agencies, the State correctional agencies, other correctional agencies maintained by local governments, and the juvenile justice agencies, but shall not include deputy sheriffs, special deputy sheriffs, sheriffs' jailers, or other sheriffs' department personnel governed by the provisions of Chapter 17E of these General Statutes.
(3) Criminal justice officers. – The administrative and subordinate personnel of all the departments, agencies, units or entities comprising the criminal justice agencies who are sworn law‑enforcement officers, both State and local, with the power of arrest; State correctional officers; State probation/parole officers; State probation/parole officers‑surveillance; officers, supervisory and administrative personnel of local confinement facilities; State juvenile justice officers; chief court counselors; and juvenile court counselors.
(4) Entry level. – The initial appointment or employment of any person by a criminal justice agency, or any appointment or employment of a person previously employed by a criminal justice agency who has not been employed by a criminal justice agency for the 12‑month period preceding this appointment or employment, or any appointment or employment of a previously certified criminal justice officer to a position which requires a different type of certification. (1971, c. 963, s. 2; 1979, c. 763, s. 1; 1983, c. 558, s. 2; c. 745, s. 2; 1989, c. 757, s. 1; 1989 (Reg. Sess., 1990), c. 1024, s. 4(a); 1997‑503, s. 2; 2001‑490, s. 1.1.)



3) SUBCHAPTER IX. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PUBLIC PEACE.
Article 35.
Offenses Against the Public Peace.
§ 14‑269. Carrying concealed weapons.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his person any bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slung shot, loaded cane, metallic knuckles, razor, shurikin, stun gun, or other deadly weapon of like kind, except when the person is on the person's own premises.
(a1) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his person any pistol or gun except in the following circumstances:
(1) The person is on the person's own premises.
(2) The deadly weapon is a handgun, and the person has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14‑415.24.
(3) The deadly weapon is a handgun and the person is a military permittee as defined under G.S. 14‑415.10(2a) who provides to the law enforcement officer proof of deployment as required under G.S. 14‑415.11(a).
(b) This prohibition shall not apply to the following persons:
(1) Officers and enlisted personnel of the armed forces of the United States when in discharge of their official duties as such and acting under orders requiring them to carry arms and weapons;
(2) Civil and law enforcement officers of the United States;
(3) Officers and soldiers of the militia and the national guard when called into actual service;
(4) Officers of the State, or of any county, city, town, or company police agency charged with the execution of the laws of the State, when acting in the discharge of their official duties;
(5) Sworn law‑enforcement officers, when off‑duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body.





In case the horse wasn't dead, I thought we could beat it some more