Qestion for SuperTrooper150 and other who police "Mountain Folk"

[My Gluttony]

I just got back from one of my frequent trips to SW Virgina

I have noticed that most of the men over 30 who live out that way look and dress Like Junior Samples, complete with over-alls

http://www.heehaw.com/photoalbum.html

I have a few questions about dealing with Junior Samples types on the job.

1. Are there special challenges when searching overalls with the shoulder straps and extra pockets

2. I know the VSP does not have shields, so they have to cuff aresttes behind the back and seatbelt them in the front. In my corner of the state, we can butter obese arrestees up with Crisco and slide them on behind the shield. But how do you belt them in the front if they are the size of junior Samples?

I know I can hardly click the seatbelt on myself in a Ford CV. I have to use a seat belt extender if I want to reach the radio to change the station. What do you guy do?

[VSPClem]

The only special challenge in dealing with them is this.

They are highly respectful of Troopers, but will test you if they think they can. Sometimes they fight, but after they fight they tell the Sgt investigating the use of force that they tested the Trooper, and the guy will usually say "I got what I deserved from your Trooper."

They like haymakers, but will usually say sir while throwing it. They will usually empty their pockets and take off their john deere hat before fighting you.

And it is much easier to get a tubby guy into the front of the car than put them in the back. You can also keep an eye on them better when they are next to you. Plus the seatbelts extend pretty well.

[t150vsuptpr]

Yeah, I never have had one that the front belt wouldn't reach around with the seat all the way back .... not yet.

Generally, they prove to be trustworthy, but you still search them, cuff hands behind the back even if it takes two cuffs, and seat tyhem up front if at all possible. Never assume, always search as a habit and use great dilligence.

They have been known to point out other, "even more drunker" DUIs while riding to jail, and in one case ..... one even turned and hit the mike button and shouted so the dispatcher could hear as he answered the radio for the trooper who stopped a second DUI. Really got her attention!

I had one asked to be uncuffed just for a minute so he could smack the ch*t out of his buddy who started cursing me on the way to jail, generally using words his mommy didn't teach him. Buddy got quiet.

They genarally do respect a man who treats them with a certain degree of dignity and firmness, they will accept your word as long as they believe you mean what you say.

I don't mind having a couple of them behind me with 2X4s or simply seated in their jacked up and tobacco stained 4x4 PU in the parking lot ... if I find a carload of gangbangers from the city at 2 am scoping things out at the local "Stop-In & Gas" off an exit.

[SHERIFF]

Why oh why oh why oh why has the Virginia State Police not put prisoner partitions in their cruisers? I have a major problem with this. It's like saying a trooper's life is not worth the $400 cost of a prisoner partition. I don't care if they do have 1,500+ or whatever cruisers, an officer's life is still worth more than the $400. :mad:

(The first prisoner cages my department had wasn't until 1984 or 1985. We were red headed stepchildren and only then got hand-me-down cages from the local police department. :rolleyes: )

[My Gluttony]

Yeah, I never have had one that the front belt wouldn't reach around with the seat all the way back .... not yet.

Generally, they prove to be trustworthy, but you still search them, cuff hands behind the back even if it takes two cuffs, and seat tyhem up front if at all possible. Never assume, always search as a habit and use great dilligence.

They have been known to point out other, "even more drunker" DUIs while riding to jail, and in one case ..... one even turned and hit the mike button and shouted so the dispatcher could hear as he answered the radio for the trooper who stopped a second DUI. Really got her attention!

I had one asked to be uncuffed just for a minute so he could smack the ch*t out of his buddy who started cursing me on the way to jail, generally using words his mommy didn't teach him. Buddy got quiet.

They genarally do respect a man who treats them with a certain degree of dignity and firmness, they will accept your word as long as they believe you mean what you say.

I don't mind having a couple of them behind me with 2X4s or simply seated in their jacked up and tobacco stained 4x4 PU in the parking lot ... if I find a carload of gangbangers from the city at 2 am scoping things out at the local "Stop-In & Gas" off an exit.

If you go to your local Ford dealer, they will give you a two-pack of seat belt extenders free of charge (Chevy will also give you one). Even some skinny guys use them because it is much easier to get he thing on and off in a hurry.

[SHERIFF]

If you go to your local Ford dealer, they will give you a two-pack of seat belt extenders free of charge (Chevy will also give you one). Even some skinny guys use them because it is much easier to get he thing on and off in a hurry.

Any manufacturer will for any car they manufacture and sell.
They are required to do so by federal law. :)

[My Gluttony]

Any manufacturer will for any car they manufacture and sell.
They are required to do so by federal law. :)

That's right. Fat guys like me have RIGHTS

[t150vsuptpr]

Why oh why oh why oh why has the Virginia State Police not put prisoner partitions in their cruisers? I have a major problem with this. It's like saying a trooper's life is not worth the $400 cost of a prisoner partition. I don't care if they do have 1,500+ or whatever cruisers, an officer's life is still worth more than the $400. :mad:

(The first prisoner cages my department had wasn't until 1984 or 1985. We were red headed stepchildren and only then got hand-me-down cages from the local police department. :rolleyes: )

Please, don't be :mad: on my account, I'm OK with it as is. :)

I always handcuff them with hands behind their back, search really good, place in rt frt seat, secure harness, use leg restraint if needed. Then I can watch him /her and drive.

If a second or third is also transported, depending on circumstance, may get other units. We so rarely transport more than one and the cage takes up too much room for such limited use, room that is often needed in other activities. If there was a need for cages, we'ld have them but most troopers do not want them.

Deputies do not work many wrecks or transport many disabled motorist, etc. They do a lot of prisoner transport both for arrests and courts and mental subjects, and for the rare occurence of a trooper requests.

[VSPTAC]

Most of the guys down here are just good ole boys!

A lot of them get suprised when I roll up on a domestic with a deputy.....even had one of them say..."Man they are really going to get me....they sent the state!!"

They are for the most part respectful of every person that wears a uniform....be it a LEO, fire fighter or rescue squad. They are also sure good back up when your getting your hind parts handed to you on the side of the road!! :D

[SHERIFF]

If there was a need for cages.....

I bet the friends and family of this deputy sheriff would disagree strongly with you. A $200 cage in the early 80s would have saved his life.

http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=10964

We only started getting cages after the death of this deputy.

[VSPClem]

But again, it comes to securing your prisoner well. If its someone that cannot be safely transported up front, then the deputies make the transport for me. We had a Trooper shot while transporting someone in the rear of the car once....it can happen anywhere. Its up to the individual to limit the risks.

[My Gluttony]

Please, don't be :mad: on my account, I'm OK with it as is. :)

I always handcuff them with hands behind their back, search really good, place in rt frt seat, secure harness, use leg restraint if needed. Then I can watch him /her and drive.

If a second or third is also transported, depending on circumstance, may get other units. We so rarely transport more than one and the cage takes up too much room for such limited use, room that is often needed in other activities. If there was a need for cages, we'ld have them but most troopers do not want them.

Deputies do not work many wrecks or transport many disabled motorist, etc. They do a lot of prisoner transport both for arrests and courts and mental subjects, and for the rare occurence of a trooper requests.


I suspect your main issue is how the shield interferes with the operation of the reclining seat after midnight

[msptrooper]

MSP does not use cages either. Myself, I like it that way.

[david30816]

Why oh why oh why oh why has the Virginia State Police not put prisoner partitions in their cruisers? I have a major problem with this. It's like saying a trooper's life is not worth the $400 cost of a prisoner partition. I don't care if they do have 1,500+ or whatever cruisers, an officer's life is still worth more than the $400. :mad:

(The first prisoner cages my department had wasn't until 1984 or 1985. We were red headed stepchildren and only then got hand-me-down cages from the local police department. :rolleyes: )

Nor does the Michigan State Police... Maybe it has something to do with state agencies????

[VSPClem]

MSP does not use cages either. Myself, I like it that way.

Do you guys ride the prisoners shotgun also?

[t150vsuptpr]

If there was a need for cages.....

I bet the friends and family of this deputy sheriff would disagree strongly with you. A $200 cage in the early 80s would have saved his life.

http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=10964

We only started getting cages after the death of this deputy.

The statement of mine was intended to apply to our use, not those of a Deputy Sheriff.

[SHERIFF]

The statement of mine was intended to apply to our use, not those of a Deputy Sheriff.

This makes it worse, not better. You stop and arrest people DUI, people under the influence of drugs, domestics, murderers, rapists, etc..... Rafferty was transporting somebody to court that was totally sober and not combative.

[fed132]

Yeah, there is an urban legend in our area about one of our local VSP Troopers. I don't know if it is true or not, but I have worked with the trooper and it would not suprise me.

The story goes something like this. A trooper was in pursuit of a vehicle in which he followed into one of the more remote parts of the county which is known for a lot of the family "good ole boys." The suspect got out of his truck in his yard and was tackled by the trooper. His family came out of the house, like ants out of an anthill and pretty well armed, and the only way the trooper could get out was to use his weapon and take the suspect hostage. This was supposedly about 20 years ago. Like I said, I don't if it is true or not, but whatever works.

[Redders]

Nor does the Michigan State Police... Maybe it has something to do with state agencies????


Nebraska State Patrol recently recalled all vehicles with less than 30,000 miles to have cages put in them and new vehicles rolling out of the state yard in Lincoln now have them also. Apparently the state brass weren't to happy about a couple of incidents where subjects were able to start running around in the car like a squirrel on a tree. They bought and put the new fancy smancy 3/4 cages complete with plastic seats, drain holes, window bars and a plexi-partion...........so the driver's seat can still recline all the way down.

[t150vsuptpr]

The statement of mine was intended to apply to our use, not those of a Deputy Sheriff.


This makes it worse, not better. You stop and arrest people DUI, people under the influence of drugs, domestics, murderers, rapists, etc..... Rafferty was transporting somebody to court that was totally sober and not combative.

Yes, I recall ..... I just forget if ... he didn't cuff him at all, ... or he he just cuffed him in front?

That is a good time to have the cuffed in back and belted in or in a cage I think.

As I stated, we search them, cuff them hands in back, double lock cuffs, place in front right seat, toss harness across and hook, pull out slack ..... and if needed, use the leg restraint rope. DUIs, wife beaters, druggies, and sober non combative arrestees alike.

[VSPClem]

Nebraska State Patrol recently recalled all vehicles with less than 30,000 miles to have cages put in them and new vehicles rolling out of the state yard in Lincoln now have them also. Apparently the state brass weren't to happy about a couple of incidents where subjects were able to start running around in the car like a squirrel on a tree. They bought and put the new fancy smancy 3/4 cages complete with plastic seats, drain holes, window bars and a plexi-partion...........so the driver's seat can still recline all the way down.

The only thing I dont like about riding prisoners shotgun is the lack of a plastic seat. When Im working mids I keep an emergency blanket on the seat at all times for the drunks that cant control their bladders, but a few years ago, a stone sober guy decided to pee on the way to the jail. Glad I dont sit in the passenger seat of my car....thats where the trainees sit.

[Redders]

The only thing I dont like about riding prisoners shotgun is the lack of a plastic seat. When Im working mids I keep an emergency blanket on the seat at all times for the drunks that cant control their bladders, but a few years ago, a stone sober guy decided to pee on the way to the jail. Glad I dont sit in the passenger seat of my car....thats where the trainees sit.

Had an old school State Trooper (pre-cage, front seat era) tell me this trick.

He keeps the great big 50 gallon black plastic garabage bags in his car. That way if he gets a super drunk, puker, ****er, ****t**, and the such he just cuts two leg holes in it and pulls it up around them like a diaper. Usually their so drunk they don't even argue. He just tells them its if they start feeling sick they can just puke in it. Unbeknownst to them they are sitting in the bag.......... I had one of those this last St. Patties Day. Expect he wasn't a DUI, he was just lost, laying in a snow bank, crying that he wanted to go to his grama's house (the guy was like 40). So I bib'd him up and took him to grama's. He had no idea that he had puked on himself when it went into the bag. Nor did he know it when he pee'd also.

God I love this job.

[1042 Trooper]

Had an old school State Trooper (pre-cage, front seat era) tell me this trick.

He keeps the great big 50 gallon black plastic garabage bags in his car. That way if he gets a super drunk, puker, ****er, ****t**, and the such he just cuts two leg holes in it and pulls it up around them like a diaper. Usually their so drunk they don't even argue. He just tells them its if they start feeling sick they can just puke in it. Unbeknownst to them they are sitting in the bag.......... I had one of those this last St. Patties Day. Expect he wasn't a DUI, he was just lost, laying in a snow bank, crying that he wanted to go to his grama's house (the guy was like 40). So I bib'd him up and took him to grama's. He had no idea that he had puked on himself when it went into the bag. Nor did he know it when he pee'd also.

God I love this job.
10-4 on bagging. We are issued a box of the big 55 gal bags just for that purpose. Gross, but it works for all of the above.

[Trooper4985]

We don't have screens in most of our cars... I don't mind having one because I don't sleep on duty and I'm only 5'8" so the seat goes back just far enough even with the screen... plus it makes a nice place to keep my stetson. We put prisoners up front with us unless we have a cage car (cuffed in the rear and a nice tight seatbelt)... a quick elbow fixes most situations if the prisoner becomes froggy... or course brake checking a roudy backseat prisoner could get the job done too :D

I suspect your main issue is how the shield interferes with the operation of the reclining seat after midnight

Midnight is a little early where I work now... 3am is more like "reactive mode" time now. The patrol area I worked before my current barracks... after about 11pm the only tail lights you were going to see were the Deputy if he wasn't camped out back at the station.

[msptrooper]

Do you guys ride the prisoners shotgun also?

Yes, up front, cuffed in back, seatbelt on tight, and restraint around the ankles shut in the door if needed.

And no cage makes a nice spot for me to hang my Stetson behind the passenger seat. :p

[1042 Trooper]

As for the original question, at 6'10" myself, if the big ol' boy got a bit punchy, I'd just tell them, "One of us is gonna get hurt reeeeal bad if we tussle, so how ;bout we say you won far and square and skip the blood."

Usually they'd look me up and down, belch out a chuckle and it was over. :D

[vsp645]

I agree with my brethren on this one. If you do your searches, cuff behind, use your hog-tieing rope (yes, it is issued equipment) and keep the conversation as pleasant as possible while keeping a carefully trained left eye on them things generally never get out of hand. I have twice now had one of those big pulp wood cutters see me tussling with a violator and jump out to help me, even knowing I was the guy that arrested them. It's funny to hear them say to whoever your arresting, " You better calm down! He arrested me and he won't hurt you if you calm down."

[PeteBroccolo]

I just about split my sides laughing over the above stories of previous "clients" turned "back-up"! Now THAT's community policing at its finest, and I bow to you guys in all humility!

However, as great as hog-ties and being vigilant work for you, I much prefer the fact that I have had use of vehicles with steel and plexiglass solid (or semi-solid) screens for almost 31 years now.

Funny how every now and then a "client" tries to test out the strength of that plexiglass window by pounding on it with their fists. Obviously, alcohol REALLY helps deaden pain receptors!