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ejay
06-04-2006, 05:50 PM
I have a few question regarding police departments that are not POST participating.

What causes them not to be POST participating? Is it the training the officers receive? Is there a minimul level of something in equipment or insurance that can keep them from being POST?

How does that status effect the department as a whole?

ateamer
06-04-2006, 07:55 PM
If they aren't POST-certified, they aren't a police department in California.

Fuzz
06-04-2006, 07:59 PM
Copied from here http://www.post.ca.gov/about/

What is POST?


The Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) was established by the Legislature in 1959 to set minimum selection and training standards for California law enforcement. The POST organization, with more than 130 staff members, functions under the direction of an Executive Director appointed by the Commission.

POST funding comes from the Peace Officers' Training Fund (POTF). The POTF receives monies from the State Penalty Assessment Fund, which in turn receives monies from penalty assessments on criminal and traffic fines. Therefore, the POST program is funded primarily by persons who violate the laws that peace officers are trained to enforce. No tax dollars are used to fund the POST program.

The POST program is voluntary and incentive-based. Participating agencies agree to abide by the standards established by POST. The more than 600 agencies in the POST program are eligible to receive the Commission's services and benefits, such as job-related assessment tools, research into improved officer selection standards, management counseling services, the development of new training courses, reimbursement for training, and quality leadership training programs. POST also awards professional certificates to recognize peace officer achievement and proficiency.


I have never seen a NON POST department, but it looks like it is possible. What agency are you talking about ejay?

ejay
06-04-2006, 08:20 PM
Well I went down the agency page clicky clicky (http://www.post.ca.gov/library/other/agency_page.asp) and saw that there are indeed municipal police depatments that were not POST participating.

Most on the list were probation, and University. However there were a few city departments such as Citrus Hights Police, Dena POint Police, Elk Grove Police, Isleton Police, San Ramon Police, Sante Fe Springs Police, Winsor Police, and Yucaipea Police.

Those are the named city police departments. Not included were probation, coroner, medical examiners, DA, harbor patrol, college police, University security, University Public Safety, certain park rangers, and high school police.

I remember once seeing a municipal police website (non POST) that stated that they had one uniformed officer, and the rest of the force consisted of plain cloths city council members responding to calls in marked units.

Just wanted to know why some departments choose not to be POST participating. Maybe they are anti Union? Who knows.

SeVere
06-04-2006, 08:52 PM
Well I went down the agency page clicky clicky (http://www.post.ca.gov/library/other/agency_page.asp) and saw that there are indeed municipal police depatments that were not POST participating.

Most on the list were probation, and University. However there were a few city departments such as Citrus Hights Police, Dena POint Police, Elk Grove Police, Isleton Police, San Ramon Police, Sante Fe Springs Police, Winsor Police, and Yucaipea Police.

Those are the named city police departments. Not included were probation, coroner, medical examiners, DA, harbor patrol, college police, University security, University Public Safety, certain park rangers, and high school police.

I remember once seeing a municipal police website (non POST) that stated that they had one uniformed officer, and the rest of the force consisted of plain cloths city council members responding to calls in marked units.

Just wanted to know why some departments choose not to be POST participating. Maybe they are anti Union? Who knows.

Isn't San Ramon a contract city of Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department? Contra Costa participates in post.

ejay
06-04-2006, 09:35 PM
I am not sure. Here is th elink to their department website. San Ramon Police (http://www.ci.san-ramon.ca.us/police/default.htm)

I did notice though that a few of those city deparments had been newly formed after ending a county contract. Only a few though. Perhaps they have yet to be POSt participating. The others seem to have been doing what they do for some time.

LeeRoy
06-05-2006, 01:18 AM
Well I went down the agency page clicky clicky (http://www.post.ca.gov/library/other/agency_page.asp) and saw that there are indeed municipal police depatments that were not POST participating.

Most on the list were probation, and University. However there were a few city departments such as Citrus Hights Police, Dena POint Police, Elk Grove Police, Isleton Police, San Ramon Police, Sante Fe Springs Police, Winsor Police, and Yucaipea Police.


Yes Citrus Heights, Elk Grove, and San Ramon PD are contract cities in their counties. CHPD and EGPD are in the process of forming their own PD's and once they take over they will become POST agencies (I have an inside source of info there). The San Ramon city council just voted two weeks ago to form their own PD but that's all they've done. The council still has to vote on an amended budget to pay for the changeover (I have a C.I. there too :) ). I suspect once SRPD goes on its own they'll become a post agency.

The other city PD's on the list are also contract cities:

Dana Point is a contract city of Orange County SO.
Santa Fe Springs PD contracts with City of Whittier so they may rely on Whittier's POST certification.
Windsor PD contracts with Sonoma SO
Yucaipa PD contracts with San Bernadino SO

I'm pretty sure only 830.1, 830.2 PC and maybe 830.3 PC police agencies can participate in POST. Corrections, probation, college, school police departments, and private public safety departments derive their authority from under other penal code authorities. I could be off on that though. I notice some campus PD's are POST agencies.

sgttom
06-05-2006, 12:42 PM
Whoa, I thought San Ramon through CoCoCo Sheriff was POST certified

Those agencies that are not POST certified (small handfull) do mirror POST requirements. Sample of who is not:


Alameda County District Attorney (not a POST participating agency)
Alpine County District Attorney (not a POST participating agency)
American River College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Azusa Pacific University Campus Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
Biola University Campus Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
CA Attorney General (not a POST participating agency)
CA Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation (not a POST participating agency)
CA Department of Justice, Crime and Violence Prevention Center (not a POST participating agency)
CA Governor’s Office of Criminal Justice Planning (not a POST participating agency
CA State Public Defender (not a POST participating agency)
Calaveras County Coroner (not a POST participating agency)
California Criminalistics Institute (not a POST participating agency)
California Institute of Technology Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Chapman University Department of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
Citrus Community College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Citrus Heights Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Claremont College Department of Campus Safety (not a POST participating agency)
Concordia University Department of Campus Safety and Security (not a POST participating agency)
Dana Point Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Danville Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
De Anza College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
artment
Elk Grove Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
El Rancho Unified School District Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Fresno City College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Gavilan College Campus Security Department (not a POST participating agency)
Isleton Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Long Beach Unified School District Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
Los Angeles County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
Los Angeles Department of Transportation Investigations (not a POST participating agency)
Loyola Marymount University Office of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
Mills College Department of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
Moorpark College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Occidental College Department of Campus Safety (not a POST participating agency)
Orange County Auto Theft Task Force (OCATT) (not a POST participating agency)
Orange County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
Pacific Union College Department of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
Pacifica Police Department
Pepperdine University Public Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
Placer County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
Plumas County District Attorney (not a POST participating agency)
San Bernardino County Coroner (not a POST participating agency)
San Diego County Medical Examiner (not a POST participating agency)
San Diego County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
San Joaquin County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
San Ramon Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Santa Clara University Department of Campus Safety (not a POST participating agency)
Santa Fe Springs Police Services (not a POST participating agency
Sierra County District Attorney (not a POST participating agency)
Sonoma County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
Stanford University Department of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
Tulare County Probation Department (not a POST participating agency)
University of La Verne Campus Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
U.S. Attorney for the Central District of California (not a POST participating agency)
University of San Diego Public Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
University of San Francisco Public Safety Department (not a POST participating agency)
University of Southern California Department of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)
Ventura Harbor Patrol (not a POST participating agency)
Walnut Valley Unified School District Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Whittier College Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Windsor Police Department (not a POST participating agency)
Yucaipa Police Department (not a POST participating agency)

willowdared
06-05-2006, 02:00 PM
There must be some benefits, because everybody panics if any of the dispatchers fall behind on their classroom hours for compliance.

I can only imagine what hoops sworn peeps have to jump through.

Fuzz
06-05-2006, 02:27 PM
For most departments it's all about the $$$$$$. POST reimburses training expenses and other monies. It's easier to let POST pay for the employees training than to have to pick up the cost.

23queen5
06-05-2006, 02:55 PM
Judging by the number of agencies I recognize as absent from the list on the POST website, I don't think it's very recent. In five seconds of looking I saw that Orinda, Lafayette, Dublin, Oakley, and others are missing. Although those are all contract cities like San Ramon and Danville which show up as non-participating. CoCo Sheriff does all the training for those contract cities, with the exception of Dublin which is Alameda County SO. So I bet that POST accredidation doesn't extend to satellite agencies as long as the main one is POST certified because contract agencies are basically just fronts for the County SO, just different uniforms and cars.

SoCalFed
06-09-2006, 10:56 PM
Also remember a large number of those "agencies" are not actual law enforcement agencies, rather campus security departments. UCPD and Cal State Univ. PD are full fledged PD's. However the only private four year colleges/universities in California that have actual POST certified police officers is Stanford University (sworn in as Santa Clara County Deputy Sheriffs) and the University of the Pacific (sworn through Stockton PD). The rest are security. They might have flashy websites or wear uniforms that look VERY similar to real police, but they are not. The security departments sometimes have MOU's which give them some powers, but the security guards are not police officers nor are they POST certified. Rather they are required to get guard cards the same as someone who works security at a mall or office building.

There are are some bogus police departments in the state. LASD has been investigating the "San Gabriel Valley Transit Authority Police Department." Basically this "PD" had one or two handicapped transportation vans run out of an auto body shop. Somehow they set up their own police department:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-ferrari10may10,1,346431.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california

ejay
06-10-2006, 02:45 AM
Yeah, I heard about the transit police. Loopholes loopholes loopholes. Funny how some mob guy from another country can become budy buddy with this guy and suddenly become a "commissioner" what ever that means.

USC may be campus security, but they are peace officers while on duty, and they do not have to carry security guardcards. They patrol the area's surrounding the campus (off campus property) and respond to call for service that come in via the 911 system of the area.

The agencies I was asking about were the city municipalities. Like I said above, I can't remember what city it was, but the website said that untrained city council members (armed) patroled in marked units and responded to calls when the regular patrol officer (yup, only one) was off duty. Maybe it was an Eastcoast thing. I heard that some cities use a constible during the day, and the Sheriff at night. Maybe some cities do the same, but at night it is the council members.

SoCalFed
06-11-2006, 03:37 PM
USC may be campus security, but they are peace officers while on duty, and they do not have to carry security guardcards. They patrol the area's surrounding the campus (off campus property) and respond to call for service that come in via the 911 system of the area.


USC is a private university that operates under a MOU which gives them limited powers while on-duty. Also, I cheked their website and it appears that they do need a guard card and fireams permit...

From the USC website for Public Safety Officer positions:
Minimum Qualifications: .........and possess the State of California Patrol Persons and Firearms permits.

ejay
06-12-2006, 04:51 AM
Hot damn, I stand corrected. They do need a guard card. I wonder why. They aren't under a private patrol operator.

I hope they pay well, cause getting a basic POST and not going to a municipal department sooner or later would be a waste IMO.

DOAcop38
06-14-2006, 12:26 AM
Hot damn, I stand corrected. They do need a guard card. I wonder why. They aren't under a private patrol operator.

I hope they pay well, cause getting a basic POST and not going to a municipal department sooner or later would be a waste IMO.


USC DPS(Dept. of Public safety) just got SCREWED by Bratton and Co ( LAPD) who shut down their MOA,effectively stopping their arrest authority per 830.7 (b) of the CA. penal code. There is some issue toward reinstating the MOA.USC DPS officers attend Rio Hondo Regional Police academy, and last time I checked they get paid $42k/yr to 61K/yr-the lower end for LEOS in L.A.county( Hey,MORE than the starting for L.A School PD and L.A. County Police) ,but not bad as far as pay for the work they do. 830.7 PC is for public safety depts of priv. hospitals ,or colleges that sign a MOA with local Sheriffs or PDs to operate patrols and arrest individuals for criminal activity within the area of the institution or its properties; USC DPS used to respond to alot of "hot calls" in the S/West Div of LAPD and make quite a few felony arrests-now they respond and detain suspects(like security guards) but they turn them over to LAPD rather than transport and book them into jail div. for someone who is putting themselves thru an academy and haven't been picked up by a Full Police agency- a good paying alternative is an agency like USC DPS

Deputy BillyBob
06-14-2006, 06:25 PM
...The San Ramon city council just voted two weeks ago to form their own PD but that's all they've done. The council still has to vote on an amended budget to pay for the changeover (I have a C.I. there too :) ). I suspect once SRPD goes on its own they'll become a post agency.


San Ramon IS a POST agency through the CoCo County Sheriff's Office as is Orinda,Lafayette,Danville and Oakley. There's no speculation there, it's a fact.

As for San Ramon splitting off on their own......

San Ramon to create its own city police department
By Scott Marshall
CONTRA COSTA TIMES
SAN RAMON - For economic reasons and to better retain officers who have become fixtures in the city, the City Council voted Tuesday night for creation of a standalone city police department, and ending a long-standing contractual agreement with the Contra Costa Sheriff's Department to provide police services.

"Fantastic -- It's a new era for the city of San Ramon," said Mayor H. Abram Wilson, before distributing new San Ramon police badge lapel pins to council members.

San Ramon now contracts with the county to provide police service within city limits, and the city pays a significant portion of the pension costs for the sheriff's deputies who now patrol the city.

A recent in-house city analysis shows it may cost more for San Ramon to start its own department than to continue contracting with the sheriff, but the cost already has

San Ramon concluded it could pay the same salaries and benefits as the sheriff's department does now, and that a new command structure would likely be more efficient. Also, retirement costs for a new agency in the state's Public Employees Retirement System would be lower. It would cost San Ramon about $1,590,000 less with its own department than under the current contract with the Sheriff's Office. But the overall police budget would increase to $9.4 million from $9.1 million, largely because overhead and administrative costs would now be borne locally.

DOAcop38
06-14-2006, 11:07 PM
Rialto Pd was supposed to go over to the San Bernardino Co.Sheriffs ,but I guess the city of rialto changed their mind- Sheriffs contracts always look attractive at first,until the "honeymoon" period is over ,then quite often,the contract city gets less service than when they had their own PD.Perfect example is Compton-Compton PD has a horrible rep for gang and street violence,yet when they contracted out to LASD,it was to save $$ and end the Dept corruption-crime went down at first but came right back up- under the old Compton PD, there was supposed to be 130 officers to patrol 125,000 ctzns,but compton only had 105 ,under the Sheriffs- they only have 90 deputies-go figure!

CA10-08
06-15-2006, 12:19 AM
USC still has the MOU (this is from USC Chief Drayton, as of 5/25/06). Their DPS officers do not have to carry guard cards, and to the best of my knowledge for the past 3 years at least all new hires are graduates of POST academies. There is a big push at USC for POST accreditation, but that will likely take a legislative change.

They are in a pretty grey area in terms of powers as they are non-sworn and not peace officers, but in terms of duties, and roles, they are police. Unfortunately they are caught up in some politics with LAPD.

DOAcop38
06-15-2006, 01:30 AM
USC still has the MOU (this is from USC Chief Drayton, as of 5/25/06). Their DPS officers do not have to carry guard cards, and to the best of my knowledge for the past 3 years at least all new hires are graduates of POST academies. There is a big push at USC for POST accreditation, but that will likely take a legislative change.

They are in a pretty grey area in terms of powers as they are non-sworn and not peace officers, but in terms of duties, and roles, they are police. Unfortunately they are caught up in some politics with LAPD.


ARE YOU SURE? We( LAXPD) have 3 guys- (2) DPS officers and (1) comm. services officers ,that are now in the FTO program that told me personally that ,besides the $$,they left due to the non POST and the curtailing of the MOA for the 830.7(b)PC status with LAPD ! And as long as USC is a private school ,I doubt very seriously if they'll get past the status of 830.7 PC ( but Ca law is fickle)-either way,you'll get the HATRED of LAPD mgm't and disrespect of LAPD line officers at S.West Div ! for a status change,you'll need a POST study, and it will question what you do in the community( and LAPD will definitely do everything it can to STOMP all over the works)-LAPD doesn't "play" well with others( they love to put on a fake smile) but ,unlike other local PDs, LAPD sees itself as #1 and everybody else in the state as "jr varsity"............

SoCalFed
06-15-2006, 02:04 AM
DOAcop38 is a wise one and right on the money. I also had heard USC lost their MOU, but wasn't sure. As for whether or not USC will become a POST agency...the chance is less than slim, and closer to none. LAPD will not give up their area. DOA knows all too well that the LAPD's philosophy is one PD for the entire city, and no specialized or off shoot agencies. LAWA have been able to fend off a takeover, but LAPD is still trying.

A change in state law to allow USC and other private school to establish thier own PD? Not going to happen in California. Yes, other states like Indiana and Texas allow it, but remember this is California...like no other place. I think PORAC and most chiefs/sheriffs would lobby hard against any legislation.

The only way USC will be actual police is if they get an arrangement like Stanford University (who are deputized by Santa Clara SD) has. LAPD will not swear in the officers and I haven't even heard of them hitting up Baca.

nobody33
06-15-2006, 02:29 AM
A change in state law to allow USC and other private school to establish thier own PD? Not going to happen in California. Yes, other states like Indiana and Texas allow it, but remember this is California...like no other place. I think PORAC and most chiefs/sheriffs would lobby hard against any legislation.



I would have to agree with this. Especially, given past battles to legislate more POST eligable agencies failures in past years. The tribal goverments have been trying for 16 years now to get some type of state peace officer status. And the same thing that happened to USC and LAPD happened with USD and SDPD.

Five-0fromSoCal
06-15-2006, 04:42 AM
Rialto Pd was supposed to go over to the San Bernardino Co.Sheriffs ,but I guess the city of rialto changed their mind- Sheriffs contracts always look attractive at first,until the "honeymoon" period is over ,then quite often,the contract city gets less service than when they had their own PD.Perfect example is Compton-Compton PD has a horrible rep for gang and street violence,yet when they contracted out to LASD,it was to save $$ and end the Dept corruption-crime went down at first but came right back up- under the old Compton PD, there was supposed to be 130 officers to patrol 125,000 ctzns,but compton only had 105 ,under the Sheriffs- they only have 90 deputies-go figure!


You're right, City of Compton only pays for 90 patrol deputies. Thats patrol only. Included in the contract, they get free gang deps, narco, cops teams, air ships, bomb squad, swat, homicide and every other specialized I can think of. Plus they get neighboring stations that respond to "hot calls" if they're nearby. The city doesn't want to pay for more patrol deputies. All our contracts get better service than if they had their own dept. Contract cities realize they get free service. It would be stupid for a city to have their own dept. The only thing a city loses is local control.

DOAcop38
06-15-2006, 07:40 AM
You're right, City of Compton only pays for 90 patrol deputies. Thats patrol only. Included in the contract, they get free gang deps, narco, cops teams, air ships, bomb squad, swat, homicide and every other specialized I can think of. Plus they get neighboring stations that respond to "hot calls" if they're nearby. The city doesn't want to pay for more patrol deputies. All our contracts get better service than if they had their own dept. Contract cities realize they get free service. It would be stupid for a city to have their own dept. The only thing a city loses is local control.
..and anywhere else that would be a problem( loss of direct control) but for Compton -its actually a Blessing.but then again, you get what you pay for- cops/Deputies/constables,troopers, cost $$$ ; dismantle a PD and contract out-you'd better know what you are asking for and how much you'll pay.Like everything- costs go up and some small towns think they can continue to pay for less and get the same service-it just isn't reality..

DOAcop38
06-15-2006, 07:48 AM
I would have to agree with this. Especially, given past battles to legislate more POST eligable agencies failures in past years. The tribal goverments have been trying for 16 years now to get some type of state peace officer status. And the same thing that happened to USC and LAPD happened with USD and SDPD.

The main reason the Priv.institutions won't get the PC change is that they have no obligation to provide public safety to the general public, nor are they willing to same services and incur the financial liability that comes from it-S/West div was begging for USC DPS officers during the '92 riots but they were not allowed to respond by the School -tiny State museum peace officers (Exposition Parks) units actually came out in full force and assisted in the general area.For what they can respond to- campus and student/student housing and school property crimes- that helps out and keeps the local PD from having to do it....

CA10-08
06-18-2006, 02:56 AM
re: USC and the MOU

I was only saying what I heard from the USC chief, I don't have a dog in this race either way.

JGreg
09-09-2008, 12:35 AM
Loyola Marymount University Office of Public Safety (not a POST participating agency)


Is anyone aware of Loyola Marymount University's Department of Public Safety being granted arrest powers?

I have heard from some students that the DPS office now states that their officers have 'arrest powers'. As of last year, none of the officers on the department were POST certified, based on my conversation with one of their lieutenants.

Based on what I have read in this forum, an MOU seems hard to come by with LAPD.

DOAcop38
09-09-2008, 01:17 AM
Also remember a large number of those "agencies" are not actual law enforcement agencies, rather campus security departments. UCPD and Cal State Univ. PD are full fledged PD's. However the only private four year colleges/universities in California that have actual POST certified police officers is Stanford University (sworn in as Santa Clara County Deputy Sheriffs) and the University of the Pacific (sworn through Stockton PD). The rest are security. They might have flashy websites or wear uniforms that look VERY similar to real police, but they are not. The security departments sometimes have MOU's which give them some powers, but the security guards are not police officers nor are they POST certified. Rather they are required to get guard cards the same as someone who works security at a mall or office building.

There are are some bogus police departments in the state. LASD has been investigating the "San Gabriel Valley Transit Authority Police Department." Basically this "PD" had one or two handicapped transportation vans run out of an auto body shop. Somehow they set up their own police department:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-ferrari10may10,1,346431.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california



to add on to SoCalFed- even more of those "depts" are cities that are actually contract Sheriffs Depts substations,but call their sub station a "Police Dept".In the city of L.A. units like the L.A. Dept of Transportation Investigators are "quasi police units",more akin to "public officers" per 836.5 PC" or the L.A. Park Rangers who must attend a full basic police academy, submit to POST guidelines on hiring ,are actually 830.31 PC status as peace officers,yet have NO firearms on duty, do not adhere to the POST mandated min bi annual training hrs, and are NOT considered a seperate independent L.E. agency within the city of L.A. ( Like LAPD,PORT PD,Gen .Services PD,LA School PD, or LAXPD)

DOAcop38
09-09-2008, 01:31 AM
Is anyone aware of Loyola Marymount University's Department of Public Safety being granted arrest powers?

I have heard from some students that the DPS office now states that their officers have 'arrest powers'. As of last year, none of the officers on the department were POST certified, based on my conversation with one of their lieutenants.

Based on what I have read in this forum, an MOU seems hard to come by with LAPD.

NO- LAPD is leery of MOUs that grant 830.7(b) PC within the city of L.A. LAPD has "pushed" LMU DPS to be more professionally trained ,but they are still priv. security with priv. persons arrest authority only. i patrol the area of westchester adjacent to LMU and have had people complain about them using "patrol vehicles" with red and blue lights to try and "pull over" students and campus visitors- but according to the Veh.code,they cannot operate these vehicles equipped like that on a public street.the only DPS with a MOU in LA is Occidental college and USC- I believe both have had this restricted even further as USC DPS no longer transport and book "in custody" arrests at LAPD facilities( they still take crime rpts but they only "detain" suspects pending response of LAPD-this is ironic,considering that USC DPS often patrol the streets and neighborhoods surrounding the campus and are often called FIRST by students,staff and local residents to handle robberies, car thefts, and assaults/ sex crimes) I do know that,for a DPS, USC pays about $47K to $60K/yr and attend rio hondo basic police academy.

http://capsnet.usc.edu/dps/index.cfm

http://www.oxy.edu/x4893.xml

JGreg
09-09-2008, 04:09 AM
i patrol the area of westchester adjacent to LMU and have had people complain about them using "patrol vehicles" with red and blue lights to try and "pull over" students and campus visitors- but according to the Veh.code,they cannot operate these vehicles equipped like that on a public street.

I talked to a LEO who was attending LMU who witnessed Public Safety conducting "traffic stops" outside the perimeter of campus. I personally witnessed these traffic stops occur ON campus routinely.

The entire fleet is equipped with red and blue lights (no steady burning red), along with sirens. I once played ignorant and asked one of their lieutenants how they 'got permission' to use red/blue lights and he replied, "Because we are a University".

As a former student I always held my breath when I saw their contract security guards, clearly with no EVOC training, respond Code 3 on campus to just about anything imaginable. They blew stop signs, passed crowds of students and overtook the opposing lanes of traffic at very high speeds to respond to calls of often relatively little severity. The amount of potential liability that comes with their Code 3 operations must be enormous.

Do they still fall within the scope of Title 13 and the CVC with regard to there use of emergency response equipment while on private property?

DOAcop38
09-09-2008, 04:13 AM
Do they still fall within the scope of Title 13 and the CVC with regard to there use of emergency response equipment while on private property?

they have NO authority to respond code 3 to anything(as far as the vehicle code is concerned!) They get away with it becuase the school-as a private entity- can regulate the operation of vehicles on its own property,but hopefully they DON'T cause a traffic collision or injure a pedestrian-stand by to stand by......:(

erich
09-10-2008, 01:55 AM
Yes Citrus Heights, Elk Grove, and San Ramon PD are contract cities in their counties. CHPD and EGPD are in the process of forming their own PD's and once they take over they will become POST agencies (I have an inside source of info there). The San Ramon city council just voted two weeks ago to form their own PD but that's all they've done. The council still has to vote on an amended budget to pay for the changeover (I have a C.I. there too :) ). I suspect once SRPD goes on its own they'll become a post agency.

The other city PD's on the list are also contract cities:

Dana Point is a contract city of Orange County SO.
Santa Fe Springs PD contracts with City of Whittier so they may rely on Whittier's POST certification.
Windsor PD contracts with Sonoma SO
Yucaipa PD contracts with San Bernadino SO

I'm pretty sure only 830.1, 830.2 PC and maybe 830.3 PC police agencies can participate in POST. Corrections, probation, college, school police departments, and private public safety departments derive their authority from under other penal code authorities. I could be off on that though. I notice some campus PD's are POST agencies.

school and college police depts. fall under 830.32 and have the right to be post as long as they are public schools

BigHouseGreen
09-10-2008, 04:58 AM
CDCr (formerly known as CDC) falls under PC 830.2, 830.5. At one time we followed CPOST but thanks to the Governator, he got rid of CPOST eventhough alot of our academy training is still CPOST. We still take the PC 832 classes for peace officer status. We don't run reds and blues, only reds because we are not responding but our vehicles are mainly used as transports. We will run code 3 when immediate transportation is needed to get someone to a hospital. Alot of times we are a chase vehicle behind an ambulance and/or transport van. For safety reasons we have to remain behind the vehicles so it is not uncommon to see a unit use the reds and siren to get through redlights and stop signs.

So when you are talking about status and authority alot of Correctional Officers will tell you that we still retain the peace officer status but our authority ends at the end of our work day. Off duty we have to go through the citizen arrest process to arrest somebody but while on duty we have full peace officer powers. I know alot of people say how can you arrest someone if they are already in custody. We don't call it arrest but we do bring charges against inmates while they are inside the prison system. Believe me I just went to trial for charging an inmate with a deadly weapon. The DA picked it up, charged him, went to trial and was convicted.

Some will tell you that we should be "24/7" but why? If we are "24/7" there would have to be a whole lot of people that would have to attend a full POST academy. Many of us have that left PDs and SDs to work corrections.

Our Parole Agents and Special Agents fall under 830.2. Some Special Agents are deputized as U.S. Deputy Marshals also.

moparfan
09-21-2008, 12:13 AM
the biggest thing that i have seen about POST is that some agencies do it to CYA. think about it if a small agencie like a school pd is not in post and their officers get into trouble then it will be harder for the lawyers to back them vs the same situatuion with a larger agencie like lapd or lasd. yes all go through an academy but think about this how much has changed since they went and what need techniques are out there to use. i see it as a way to have more backing you up if have to go to court. just a thought.

DEcop989
10-07-2008, 09:13 AM
*Thread Necromancy*

SO wait a minute....

Officers at the depts. listed on the other page - - they do or do not have to go to an academy? Can they make traffic stops? Respond code to incidents? make arrests?

nobodyjr
10-07-2008, 12:22 PM
*Thread Necromancy*

SO wait a minute....

Officers at the depts. listed on the other page - - they do or do not have to go to an academy? Can they make traffic stops? Respond code to incidents? make arrests?

Peace officers have to go to a post approved academy, and (I believe but not 100% sure on this one) do 40 hours of POST approved training every two years. But their department does not get reimbursed for it by POST if the dept is non participating.

POST has nothing to do with their authority beyond that. They have full powers. The peace officer powers come from the penal code, not POST. The penal code requires the academy training, but not participation in POST.

POST is all about training and money in CA. That's pretty much it.


Actually with the budget cut backs, they aren't about much of anything.

DEcop989
10-07-2008, 08:45 PM
Ok - I was confused. So the officers in the departments on that list still go through the full academy but just work for depts that arent POST compliant?

The reason I ask is I worked corrections here in DE and got hurt wrestling with an IM. So Id like to hit the streets but my leg won't hold up for going througha full academy again. So I'm trying to find an LE agency that will let me work, but hav an abridged or shorter academy - or at least one thats less running intensive. I can still push up and sit up with the best of em.

Showboat
10-07-2008, 10:12 PM
Ok - I was confused. So the officers in the departments on that list still go through the full academy but just work for depts that arent POST compliant?

The reason I ask is I worked corrections here in DE and got hurt wrestling with an IM. So Id like to hit the streets but my leg won't hold up for going througha full academy again. So I'm trying to find an LE agency that will let me work, but hav an abridged or shorter academy - or at least one thats less running intensive. I can still push up and sit up with the best of em.

I've got a feeling the med is going to get you. They want to make sure that you are 100% rehabbed and able to run because you will have to run during the academy. As a correctional officer, I believe you are going to need to go through a full academy as CAPOST won't honor many other states' patrol academy curricula, let alone a correctional one.

As far as an injury...at least that's what I've been told regarding thenm and that's why I'm not playing hockey, snowboarding, or pretty much enjoying my young life right now. :eek: I can't afford to get hurt and be told "Nope, come back when you're better." :o

DOAcop38
10-08-2008, 12:30 AM
Isn't San Ramon a contract city of Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department? Contra Costa participates in post.

Alot of the "non participating city PDs are actually County Sheriff contract cities that have designated their own sheriff contract service as a "police dept"

there are some agencies, like Priv. colleges with MOAs ( per 830.7b PC) that operate "public safety Depts" with limited authority to patrol certain areas within authorization,effect arrests, and invs certain crimes. They often hire non affiliated "pre service " police academy grads,or retired cops to patrol and work in them. Examples are USC , Univ. of san Francisco and the univ. of San Diego

USC Dept of Public Safety
http://capsnet.usc.edu/DPS/index.cfm - Public Safety Officer I ($25/hr)

Univ. of San Francisco Public Safety Dept.
www.usfca.edu/public_safety/ Public Safety Officer ($26.50/hr)

Univ. of San Diego Dept. of Public Safety
www.sandiego.edu/safety/about/
Public Safety Officer ($21./hr)