Martial Arts folks inside plz

[spartanws6]

Well I have been all over the net looking at the different forms of martial arts to see what would be the "best" style to train for law enforcement. I have been lucky in the physical confrontations I have been in that they have been relatively short and I was blessed with good genes. Anyways, here the the questions I keep running into.

With the huge MMA craze that has occured in the last few years, a lot more people know a whole lot more about fighting. Yes I think it is a good thing from an LE standpoint to learn the techniques from different styles that best fit our role. Not to discredit the UFC fighters, however the MMA folks don't face the same things we do. Imagine this, Chuck Liddel has a foot persuit with 20+ pounds of gear on and runs into the ring to the sound of the bell... his opponents may seriously outweigh (or under-weigh for that matter) him, he may have a knife hidden in his clothing, Chuch has a gun in his holster that he probably doesn't have the legal reason to use (but the opponent might), and Chuck has NO idea of the background of the opponent. lol, sounds like an academy drill huh. The question is this.......

What "style" teaches methods to take a person down...... now.... simply.
What "style", once on the ground, teaches methods of getting that person to comply, and now, and simply.
And, worst case scenario, what style will teach me to, if faced with a life threatening situation, terminate the threat..... and of course, now, simply?

Anyone found a style that fits the above? As far as protocol.... anyone tried training with an organization and wearing the bat belt? Where the opponents can try to take your weapon..... or have a weapon hidden? Basically the "train like you fight, fight like you train" mentality?

I know this is a novel, but it is a complicated concern. Appreciate everyone's input ahead of time. thx!

[ML8282]

Whatever works is my approach. Krav seems to be the hot thing, and Gracie style grappling is favored by a lot of people I know. Each situation you come in contact with is going to be different, and committing to one style may not be beneficial to what needs to get done.

If you end up on the ground with someone, and get a good ankle lock, the only thing that matters is if you can handcuff from that lock. No one just taps out in real life.

Study different styles, train, and add everything to your tool box.

[EasyAndy]

i studied systema for a while and found it to be very handy

its a russian form of martial art if you dont know that already

[StephWhit]

HapKiDo...Joint locks, take-downs..Effective regardless of size and strength

[Prangler]

I have read a lot of good things about Krav Maga, supposed to be real good. I recently started training in Judo and I love it. Judo is take downs, throws, grapples, holds, and a few other neat tricks. I got into it because of the style of fighting. Lets face it, if we need to hit someone we know how to do it, make a fist and unleash on this person...although, that may get us into court real quickly.

Judo is a way to get that subject to do what you want them to do. Where I train we do standing fights, first to the ground loses, ground fights, first to get pinned and no way to get out loses, and both, start standing, end with a pin or tap out. Great stuff. I suggest you research it. I have attached a few websites that might be of some help. Good luck, train hard, stay safe.

http://www.usjudo.org/
http://www.usja-judo.org/
http://www.judoinfo.com/menu.htm

[SPOC911]

I have trained in Krav Maga for quite a while now. It is very applicable to Law Enforcement and personal safety. It also has Law Enforcement specific tactics. As you progress you will learn standing and ground techniques. You will train to disarm someone, knife or gun as well as retain your weapon. I've trained wearing my duty gear and found all that I learned workd with or without gear on. I have been in numerous physical altercations at work since training in Krav and the training worked. My department has sent several of us to be trained as Krav Maga law enforcement instructors. It is also a great cardio workout. We usually do drills to exhaust yourself then train from this position. This will assisit you after a prolonged foot chase or confrontation and give you more confidence in your skills. Contact me if you need any further inoformation.

Check it out at www.kravmaga.com

I train at www.corelouisville.com

[1042 Trooper]

This is the reason I studied Kempo. very practicle for street use. The Late Master Ed Parker is said to have tried each of his techniques "on the street" as he refined them

[PBG297]

I hold a black belt in an Okinawan system of Karate and find it to be quite useless in the "real world". I have been training in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for about a year and a half and feel more confident with those skills in such a short time than I do with ten years of traditional karate.

I personally think it's a matter of what works best for the individual officer. I'm 6'4" 240+ out of uniform, 260 with the gear on. What works well for me won't work as well for someone of average height and proportional weight, much less someone who is grossly out of shape and overweight.

[ten-eight]

Blauer's Spear System

[HwangTKD]

I have trained in Judo, Hapkido, Taekwondo (both sport and traditional), no-gi jujitsu (submission grappling), and boxing. In every "hands on" situation I've been involved with, Judo was the Art that I instinctively went to. I love being able to throw my opponent on the floor while staying on my feet. The last thing I want to do is smash my fist or elbow against someone's face and risk bodily fluid transfer. Judo also has ground elements too, armbars, chokes, ect are also taught.

Good Luck!

[JK4629]

Since I was 5 years of age, I've studied several martial arts. (Tae Kwon Do, Aikido, Judo, Hapkido, Capoeira, Pencak Silat, Filipino Kali) I was also a captain on my school's wrestling team in my intermediate school years, and fenced for 2 years in college. Aside from actually studying under instructors in those arts, I did a lot of self study and reading on Jeet Kune Do years back.

If it came down to me putting my life on the line or judge which art was the most practical in a real life combat situation.....I wouldn't trust anything other than the Silat and Kali. Everything else to me just seems like "in a perfect world" this technique would work like this! kind of crap if ya catch my drift. A wise man once said "every man has a game plan until they get hit." Those other arts seemed to really emphasize that when I'd see people spar or fight.

[bigcitypolice06]

I think a MMA type training that incorporates several different aspects is best to LE. Judo locks and takedowns, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu type ground fighting (statistically 82+% of fights in my Dept go to the ground) and Krav for weapon retention/takeaways. There isn't one type of fighting that works best. train with your duty gear on and work through what works and what doesn't.

[M-11]

Tard strength and Scottish Heritage has gotten me this far.

Any MA where you get hit in the face, Hard, and learn you can keep on fighting is the ideal for LE work.

Art is next to useless, it's the martial part you should concentrate on.

M-11

[Sgt. Slaughter]

What is up with knocking the dust off 2-3 year old threads, lately? Holy crap!

[BPD_126]

Anyone found a style that fits the above? As far as protocol.... anyone tried training with an organization and wearing the bat belt? Where the opponents can try to take your weapon..... or have a weapon hidden? Basically the "train like you fight, fight like you train" mentality?

All of our instructors/actors in the academy were also jiu-jitsu students. I took jiu-jitsu/muy tai kickboxing before the academy for about two years. It helped tremendously and I was ahead of a lot of my classmates. Threw the actors for a loop when I had one in front mount and put a keylock on his arm, forcing him to tap/comply and roll over. His exact words were, "ah s*** that hurts! Take me to jail!!" I did a lot of stuff we weren't taught in the academy during fights so I liked the fight calls. Basic wristlocks and armlocks are usually enough for the average person but like you said, get that guy who knows how to fight, you better be able to counter it. Jui-jitsu and ground fighting is a physical game of chess. You have to know what your opponet can do and what you can do to counter as well as what your next move could be and think a step ahead of that......ect. I haven't been on my back yet in a fight on the street. Most people think you're losing but as we all know, you aren't. I know a lot of suprises for when that day comes.....

Oh, the greatest thing training does is the muscle memory and gives you the confidence you need to survive a fight. You can be more relaxed and actually think instead of a ball of adrenaline and shut off. That's why training, no matter what style, is so important.

[M-11]

ect. I haven't been on my back yet in a fight on the street. Most people think you're losing but as we all know, you aren't. I know a lot of suprises for when that day comes.....

If you are on your back anywhere you are not using mats and a mouthguard, you are losing the fight. You are confidant in your abilities, but unexperienced in practicalities. The guard is a killer for you as a cop. If you are putting an arm bar on someone in your guard (Using both your arms against one of theirs) while they draw your pistol/their knife and ventilate your guts, technique counts for nothing.

Not to mention multiple attackers...

Don't ground fight. Do as much damage as you can in a couple seconds, while protecting your weapons, gain seperation, and escalate force as needed.

M-11

[wirefire2]

Ground fighting (jujitsu), I've never had or seen a standup fistfight other that wild crazy blows that end in a tackle.

[Rocky Mount Cop]

You have to find a happy medium in the training that you do as a LEO. You are right, most MMA would not last because they train with a different mentality. You have to train in a manner that utilizes effective striking, grappling, takedowns, weapon retention, and weapon disarming. Your training also has to include the use of your weapon in an aggressive offensive manner while tangled up with the enemy. I teach Street Combat Applications and Tactics which is a compilation of submission fighting, Muay Thai, wrestling, Judo, and western boxing. To this sytem of hand-to-hand combat I have added effective disarms for knives, guns, and Sticks. Not academy disarms, real disarms that actually work. One of the biggest things that officers do (especially new officers) is they let the situation get to far along before they put hands on. If you feel the situation is going south get the suspect on the ground and handcuffed.

When training, try to stay off of your back as long as you can especially with bigger opponents. If you are on the street and you end up on your back you are in a world of trouble. Especially if you are in a club setting, DV situation or other event with more than one suspect to deal with. You do however need to train on your back so that you know how to handle yourself if the situation were to arise and you are taken down. Some of the main drills that I work with my guys on their backs is a lot of weapon drawling, and reversals. Too many of the submissions from the bottom do not afford you the ability to keep hands free for other suspects. Sometimes you gotta just grab an arm and break it though.

I am hosting a Street Combat Applications and Tactics seminar in March in Rocky Mount NC. It will consist of 17hrs of straight to the point, no nonsense training. All who are interested feel free to contact me. You guys keep up the good work and be careful out there.

[ChopperCopper]

Even as a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and Doc Pares, I find the WWF wrestling style most conducive on the street.