University of San Diego Public Safety

[histfan71]

I applied with USD Public Safety back in 2002 and didn't pass the interview. I am thinking of reapplying, but I read some threads here that did not paint the department in a very positive light.

Back in 2002 they wore blue uniforms, were armed, and their units had red and blue light bars. They also used to make traffic stops, made DUI arrests, transported and booked their prisoners directly into the jail. I have checked out their website but it has not changed substantially since 2002. Does USD still do these things? One of threads here suggested that they no longer do.

Can any current San Diego PD officers tell me about your relationship with them? Are they a professional group? Or are they a bunch of wannabe's who cause you nothing but grief?

Thanks.

[COASTIE01]

I dont know about the department but the view from the patrol cars must be lovely

[nobody33]

They were formerly operating under an assumed agreement with SDPD that they had police powers, much like USC and Stanford operate their police departments.

Someone at SDPD found there was no agreement. From what I understand that really changed the dept. No more arrests (well they can make citizen arrests), no more red and blue lights. I think they only require PC832 training and not a full academy anymore. Basically they went from being mini cops to armed secuirty.

They are paid decent- for security- though. UCSD, SDSU, City schools, SD community colleges, are all hiring right now if campus LE is your thing. SDSU and community colleges put people through the regional academy (pay sucks though but about the same as USD security).


Go aztecs!

[willowdared]

Doesn't it have to do with whether they are POST certified?

[nobody33]

Doesn't it have to do with whether they are POST certified?

This is what I was told by a couple different people who are training coordinators at 2 different agencies and from what I have read in the CA codes:

No. Peace officer authority is derived from the penal code, and the right to form a police department in this case is under the education code, which only allows PD's for public schools. However there are major problems for agencys that lose POST cert or don't have it- mainly they lose reimbursement for POST training- which is still required. As private colleges do not have the right or power to form their own police departments as the education code allows for public schools, therefore they can not be POST certified. They have to derive their authority from agreements with the agency who's jurdiction they are in, so they do have a backend doorto get peace officer authority. Like in LA- USC cops derive their peace officer powers from an agreement with LAPD. Stanford has deputies with power from the San Mateo county sheriff. I believe the authority specifically comes from reserve statutes. Some federal gov agency LE officers get the same powers also. Mostly so they have PC for DUI stops. BLM rangers are a good example of this in San Bernardino county, they are, or atleast all were reserve deps too, until a political mess got it taken away. Not sure if they ever got it back.

In unrealted SD county college pd news, Mira costa college just got guns today, despite having been a POST agency with full authority- black and whites, red and blues, cuffs, etc. scary they were unarmed.

[histfan71]

They were formerly operating under an assumed agreement with SDPD that they had police powers, much like USC and Stanford operate their police departments.

Someone at SDPD found there was no agreement. From what I understand that really changed the dept. No more arrests (well they can make citizen arrests), no more red and blue lights. I think they only require PC832 training and not a full academy anymore. Basically they went from being mini cops to armed secuirty.Go aztecs!

They are paid decent- for security- though. UCSD, SDSU, City schools, SD community colleges, are all hiring right now if campus LE is your thing. SDSU and community colleges put people through the regional academy (pay sucks though but about the same as USD security).

Thanks Nobody. Campus LE is my thing. One of the reasons I want to work for a univeristy is the education benefits. I have been wanting to get a Master's degree for a while, but since I am still paying off my undergraduate loans I cannot afford to go back to school on my own. That leaves out everything but UCSD from the list you gave me. I will check them out.

By the way, LAPD did not renew their Memorandum of Understanding with USC (I think this happened in 2003) and now they are just armed security as well. Stanford Univeristy and University of the Pacific still have their MOU's as far as I know.

[nobody33]

UCSD I think is still only hiring pre-service. But they are the highest paid out of the campus agencies.

I'm a senior at state, and have been looking into grad school programs. USD is way too expensive, but does offer a wide bredth of programs. UCSD is all math science stuff, or PHD programs. SDSU has the good stuff, even a MA in Homeland security now. It's still cheap too. Of course it doesn't have that sexy name UC on the diploma :)

SDSU police probally is busier than the other departments all combined.

There are also a lot agencies with tuition reimbursement. I'm getting about a 1/3 of mine from my agency. Some departments pay the whole thing.

That's too bad about SC. That area needs all the police it can get.

[histfan71]

I have a Basic POST certificate, so I would be considered a lateral by UCSD. However, my certificate expires this year so if I don't get hired somewhere by December I will have to go through a requalification course, which is no biggie. A buddy of mine just went through a requal course a couple of months ago at Rio Hondo and said it was a breeze.

My goal after I retire from law enforcement is to become a history and/or criminal justice professor. I have heard from several current professors that master's degrees from Cal State schools are looked down upon in the academic community because CSU's have pretty minimal standards. I say if the minimum wasn't good enough it wouldn't be the minimum! No offense to you, Nobody. So if I want to pursue an academic career I will need a degree from a UC at least.

If I really wanted to relocate I would apply with Stanford PSD in a minute. They offer a hiring bonus for both POST certification and a BS degree.

[MCSD]

USD seems to have openings all the time which isn't good. The pay is low. I work at a security company that pays $2 more an hour and probably does half the work they do. I bet the experience is alot better then what I do though...

[nobody33]

I have a Basic POST certificate, so I would be considered a lateral by UCSD. However, my certificate expires this year so if I don't get hired somewhere by December I will have to go through a requalification course, which is no biggie. A buddy of mine just went through a requal course a couple of months ago at Rio Hondo and said it was a breeze.

My goal after I retire from law enforcement is to become a history and/or criminal justice professor. I have heard from several current professors that master's degrees from Cal State schools are looked down upon in the academic community because CSU's have pretty minimal standards. I say if the minimum wasn't good enough it wouldn't be the minimum! No offense to you, Nobody. So if I want to pursue an academic career I will need a degree from a UC at least.

If I really wanted to relocate I would apply with Stanford PSD in a minute. They offer a hiring bonus for both POST certification and a BS degree.

I was accepted to UCI and UCR. I turned them both down because they didn't have the BA program I wanted- Public Admin. UC schools are great for the sciences, but they lack diverse liberal arts programs in many cases, espically UCSD. But yeah, I get what I pay for at SDSU, I'm certainlly not going to be a PHd at Tulane or something :).

I would agree that if you want to be an academic go to UC. That's pretty much the difference between UC and CSU. CSU is for putting out people into the work force, and UC is for PHd's and terminal degrees with research. If you get on with UC pd you can transfer to another UC campus in the state also, so it's a good way to go IMHO. I've looked at Stanford and USC also, they don't pay for enough school to be worth it IMHO.

[histfan71]

Thanks for the info Nobody. I see that UCR is hiring and they have a decent history program there. Also, UC Santa Barbara has a GREAT public history (think museums and historical preservation) program, they pioneered it. If I got hired by UCR I could transfer up to UCSB if they have openings. Something to think about.

Also, I have been looking at USD Public Safety's daily log on their website. It looks like they do not do any of the "police work" they used to so I do not think I will reapply.

[MCSD]

Also, I have been looking at USD Public Safety's daily log on their website. It looks like they do not do any of the "police work" they used to so I do not think I will reapply.

Can you post the link for there daily log...

[histfan71]

Can you post the link for there daily log...

Here you go. Click on the "Crime Reports" link on the left side of the page.

http://www.sandiego.edu/safety/

[MCSD]

I have a Basic POST certificate

Where did you get your post from?

[DOAcop38]

That's too bad about SC. That area needs all the police it can get.

The MOU you talked about is pursuant to 830.7(b) PC-USC Dep of Public Safety still sends officers to local Police Academies as well as accepts recent pre service academy grads -pay is about $50K to $62K/yr plus beneifts and partial UC tuition -not too shabby for "private college" cops,definitely good for a guy stuck in reserve PD status or a young retiree from a local PD-I don't know what they did to **** Bratton off ,but they(USC DPS) could easily go to the Sheriffs Dept and have the MOU issued or probably will just wait until the next LAPD Chief comes in and renew it.Under Bratton, LAPD has gotten MORE "hostile" to non LAPD law enforcement working in the city ,i.e LASO,Cal State PDs,UCLAPD,L.A. School PD,Airports,Port PD,CHP-but I think it was USC that didn't properly renegotiate the MOU and screwed themselves with LAPD ,since unlike the others I mentioned, USC DPS is not a true "public law enforcement agency".LAPD mgm't has this "fantasy" that they are STILL the all powerful agency they once were-officers are retiring or LEAVING at alarming rates,the patrol#s are too few and service is **** poor as the individual patrol officers are overworked,add to that the fact that LAPD is no longer a High paying agency compared to the neighboring suburban PDs, and the discipline system sucks, and you get an anemic Dept,but I agree that USC DPS should not have had their law enforcement authority "dismantled"- all it does is make more WORK for LAPDs Southwest div and Central/Newton Divs . Also I agree that HistFan should shoot for the UC PDs because the pay is comparable to local muni PD( althought the CSUPDS don't pay as much they too have good benefits and the 3%@50 retirement also).and don't worry about the "who's a real cop" B.S. you'll get enough arrests no matter where you go to make you tired for a life time-but nothing beats geting an education.......

[hbliam]

Thanks for the info Nobody. I see that UCR is hiring and they have a decent history program there. Also, UC Santa Barbara has a GREAT public history (think museums and historical preservation) program, they pioneered it. If I got hired by UCR I could transfer up to UCSB if they have openings. Something to think about.

Also, I have been looking at USD Public Safety's daily log on their website. It looks like they do not do any of the "police work" they used to so I do not think I will reapply.


If you are thinking of working for a UC PD for the education benefit you do know that it's just for undergrad degree's right?

[cohortes_urbana]

They were formerly operating under an assumed agreement with SDPD that they had police powers, much like USC and Stanford operate their police departments.

Someone at SDPD found there was no agreement. From what I understand that really changed the dept. No more arrests (well they can make citizen arrests), no more red and blue lights. I think they only require PC832 training and not a full academy anymore. Basically they went from being mini cops to armed secuirty.

They are paid decent- for security- though. UCSD, SDSU, City schools, SD community colleges, are all hiring right now if campus LE is your thing. SDSU and community colleges put people through the regional academy (pay sucks though but about the same as USD security).


Go aztecs!

There was an MOU signed in 1999 between the City of San Diego and University of San Diego, however it does not provide any enforcement or arrest powers per 830.7(b) PC. The MOU itself is quite basic and has the appearance that no attorneys were involved in its creation. USD DPS states that they only make citizen's arrests (PC 837) but at the same time fail to deliver invididuals they observe violate the law to a magistrate or peace officer as required by 837(a) PC. It appears USD empowers its DPS officers to enforce university police which mimics San Diego Municipal Code and state penal/vehicle code provisions. And of course they enforce it using dark blue uniforms, LAPD style badges, crown-vic's with red lightbars.

Why Campus Security requires red lights equipped on their vehicles to enforce university police bewilders me, unless they mean to impersonate law enforcement in efforts to gain compliance from those they are "citing." Authorized emergency vehicles are the only class of vehicles in California permitted to be equipped with red lights to the front of their vehicles as well as a myriad of other police equipment (see 165(f) CVC.) I would venture to say that the Commissioner of CHP has not provided USD's DPS with authorized emergency permits as it appears from 2416 CVC that the only law enforcement vehicles which may be granted permits must be owned or operated by law enforcement officer's.

The CVC applies to USD property through 21113 CVC but is not enforceable by non-peace officers (USD DPS.) And the argument that since its private security operating on USD property and they can equip their vehicles as they see fit is not legal. USD DPS cars routinely travel on the city roads surrounding the campus. Just FYI California Appeal's Courts have held in Cabazon Band of Mission Indians v. Smith (1998, CD CAL) 34F SUPP 2D 1201 that tribal law enforcement vehicles must obtain emergency vehicle permits per 165(f)/2416 CVC because of the possibility of their vehicles being operated on city and state streets/highways.

Any input on my findings is greatly appreciated. I wish only to ensure that I have all my facts strait before doing anything about this.

[cohortes_urbana]

Just FYI:

Here is the link to the USD-SDPD MOU:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1468492&da=y


Here is alink to the SDPD-San Diego City School's Police Department MOU (just as a comparison in terms of what an official MOU should look like):

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1468493&da=y

My apologies for any inconvenience as it appears one must create a "keepandshare" account to view the above documents. Accounts may be created for free however I do understand that it is inconvenient to do so.

[MCSD]

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachments/es300-and-es330/113727d1194053211-es300-a-c-or-cabin-filter-change-97-01-holy-thread-revival-batman.jpg

[nobodyjr]

Just FYI:

Here is the link to the USD-SDPD MOU:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1468492&da=y


Here is alink to the SDPD-San Diego City School's Police Department MOU (just as a comparison in terms of what an official MOU should look like):

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1468493&da=y

My apologies for any inconvenience as it appears one must create a "keepandshare" account to view the above documents. Accounts may be created for free however I do understand that it is inconvenient to do so.

I created an account and still can't view them. Something about each user name must have permission.

[JGreg]

There was an MOU signed in 1999 between the City of San Diego and University of San Diego, however it does not provide any enforcement or arrest powers per 830.7(b) PC. The MOU itself is quite basic and has the appearance that no attorneys were involved in its creation. USD DPS states that they only make citizen's arrests (PC 837) but at the same time fail to deliver invididuals they observe violate the law to a magistrate or peace officer as required by 837(a) PC. It appears USD empowers its DPS officers to enforce university police which mimics San Diego Municipal Code and state penal/vehicle code provisions. And of course they enforce it using dark blue uniforms, LAPD style badges, crown-vic's with red lightbars.

Why Campus Security requires red lights equipped on their vehicles to enforce university police bewilders me, unless they mean to impersonate law enforcement in efforts to gain compliance from those they are "citing." Authorized emergency vehicles are the only class of vehicles in California permitted to be equipped with red lights to the front of their vehicles as well as a myriad of other police equipment (see 165(f) CVC.) I would venture to say that the Commissioner of CHP has not provided USD's DPS with authorized emergency permits as it appears from 2416 CVC that the only law enforcement vehicles which may be granted permits must be owned or operated by law enforcement officer's.

The CVC applies to USD property through 21113 CVC but is not enforceable by non-peace officers (USD DPS.) And the argument that since its private security operating on USD property and they can equip their vehicles as they see fit is not legal. USD DPS cars routinely travel on the city roads surrounding the campus. Just FYI California Appeal's Courts have held in Cabazon Band of Mission Indians v. Smith (1998, CD CAL) 34F SUPP 2D 1201 that tribal law enforcement vehicles must obtain emergency vehicle permits per 165(f)/2416 CVC because of the possibility of their vehicles being operated on city and state streets/highways.

Any input on my findings is greatly appreciated. I wish only to ensure that I have all my facts strait before doing anything about this.
Loyola Marymount University (LMU), a non-POST certified, non-MOU, private university has a fleet of black and white SUVs equipped with red and blue lights, along with sirens. They frequently respond Code 3 around campus at high speeds and conduct traffic stops on students and visitors. Many of their officers are contract security guards and technically don't even work for the University.

After I nearly got hit by one of them on a blind curve as they were going full Code 3 in the wrong direction on a one-way street to respond to a fire alarm, I remember thinking how it was just a matter of time until they got someone seriously injured or killed.

[cohortes_urbana]

Please accept my apologies for anyone who attempted to access the MOU's using fileshare. I have posted the MOU's for USD and SDCSPD below using Google Docs. The access it free for anyone to view even without a google account.

SDPD-USD MOU:
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B6FoJnVsD8JkMDJiMWI1YjItMDRmOC00ZmYxL WIyOTItZTY3OTA3YWIxZWJi&hl=en

SDPD-San Diego City School's PD MOU:
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B6FoJnVsD8JkYTQzYjU1Y2EtZTVjOS00Njg0L Tk0NzgtZGE2Mzg1MDIzNjMx&hl=en

[cohortes_urbana]

Loyola Marymount University (LMU), a non-POST certified, non-MOU, private university has a fleet of black and white SUVs equipped with red and blue lights, along with sirens. They frequently respond Code 3 around campus at high speeds and conduct traffic stops on students and visitors. Many of their officers are contract security guards and technically don't even work for the University.

After I nearly got hit by one of them on a blind curve as they were going full Code 3 in the wrong direction on a one-way street to respond to a fire alarm, I remember thinking how it was just a matter of time until they got someone seriously injured or killed.

USD's DPS Officer's frequently do the same thing. They give the impression to students and visitors that they are actually law enforcement. I am concerned about oversight. What is to prevent DPS at USD from covering up crimes which were perpetrated against or by 'special' university community members such as athletes?

Also I question the legality of issuing private university citations for what are also considered violations of law but not allowing student's and other university community member's due process of law in state courts. They just refer cases to Student Discipline which by no means enjoys a standard of "due process" or rights of defendants. Take a look at this example:

CAD Date: October 17 2009 Saturday Incident 09-10-17-109802
22:26
Case Log #09-00987
Incident Class & Type HEALTH/SAFETY POSSESS MARIJUANA; INFRACTION- UNDER 28.5 GRAMS
Location: MISSIONS A AREA
Summary: At approximately 2226, Public Safety responded to assist a Resident Assistant with observed a student rolling a marijuana cigarette. Upon investigation, the two residents were contacted and cited for possession of marijuana (3.63g), marijuana paraphernalia, and minor in possession (MIP).
Disposition: Judicial Referral

Source: http://www.sandiego.edu/safety/crimereports/2009/October2009.php

[avalon42]

USD's DPS Officer's frequently do the same thing. They give the impression to students and visitors that they are actually law enforcement. I am concerned about oversight. What is to prevent DPS at USD from covering up crimes which were perpetrated against or by 'special' university community members such as athletes?

Also I question the legality of issuing private university citations for what are also considered violations of law but not allowing student's and other university community member's due process of law in state courts. They just refer cases to Student Discipline which by no means enjoys a standard of "due process" or rights of defendants. Take a look at this example:

CAD Date: October 17 2009 Saturday Incident 09-10-17-109802
22:26
Case Log #09-00987
Incident Class & Type HEALTH/SAFETY POSSESS MARIJUANA; INFRACTION- UNDER 28.5 GRAMS
Location: MISSIONS A AREA
Summary: At approximately 2226, Public Safety responded to assist a Resident Assistant with observed a student rolling a marijuana cigarette. Upon investigation, the two residents were contacted and cited for possession of marijuana (3.63g), marijuana paraphernalia, and minor in possession (MIP).
Disposition: Judicial Referral

Source: http://www.sandiego.edu/safety/crimereports/2009/October2009.php

First you were concerned with "clarification", then you want "input", now it's "oversight".

Why not direct your grievance to the University official/department in charge of DPS, or to the appropriate commander/administrator at SDPD? Why here?

[cohortes_urbana]

First you were concerned with "clarification", then you want "input", now it's "oversight".

Why not direct your grievance to the University official/department in charge of DPS, or to the appropriate commander/administrator at SDPD? Why here?

Just looking for opinions on the issue and input. I am trying to get as much of a full picture of the situation before addressing the Chief's Office. I don't want to overlook something that someone as experienced as most of the member's of this forum might point out. As for USD DPS, they have stonewalled me, I've tried speaking to their "chief."

[officerdotcomm]

cohortes:

Your post comes across as fairly anti-LE or anti-security and you seem to be debating a case - looking for a way to support the outlook you want - which would put you in the pro-marijuana arena. This is a topic that has been debated ad nauseum on this board and inevitably angers our user group. Think about it... this is a police forum. Cops in general are anti-drug because drugs are... well... illegal.

If you seek legal advice on whether or not a specific university's campus police /security department has whatever arrest powers, etc, then this is the wrong place to ask (usually). You'd be better off seeking legal counsel on a lawyer forum - where people generally charge you for legal advice.

You are - I'd be willing to bet - not going to find support for your position here.