ATTN: UK LEOs ----- LOOKING FOR SOME ADVICE

[GunnerTriad]

one of my friends recently got arrested and spent 24 hours in a cell for something they were doing in UK, I think it was using fake cards or something like that they didnt tell me the whole story but they will have an interview in about a month. I think one of their friends asked them to go in a place to get something for his friend who could not speak english but didnt tell my friend the card was a fake.

Obviously cos my friend was the one in the shop they are the ones in trouble cos there was no one else there in the shop with them, but in actual fact my friend was the one who got tricked.

Now the lawyer told them that the worst that can happen is to have a criminal record and they could just get a caution.....the officer that was investigating said cos there was no previous history ith the police then it would probably only be a caution but in the meantime what i need to know is if my friend gets some letters from their embassy or previous employers stating their character then will this help them at all when the interview comes round or even giving names of the people that got them to do it for them.....

Any suggestions would be very welcome

Thanks

[Dutyman]

Change your friends ?

Attempting to use a card which you know isn't yours is "attempting to obtain goods by deception" - saying you're doing it for a mate isn't a defence, and in fact I've lost count of the times I've interviewed people who've bought flight tickets etc for drug mules with cards that don't belong to them and when you show'em the cctv they just claim to be doing it for a mate.

[AnGardaSiochana]

one of my friends recently got arrested and spent 24 hours in a cell for something they were doing in UK, I think it was using fake cards or something like that they didnt tell me the whole story but they will have an interview in about a month. I think one of their friends asked them to go in a place to get something for his friend who could not speak english but didnt tell my friend the card was a fake.

Obviously cos my friend was the one in the shop they are the ones in trouble cos there was no one else there in the shop with them, but in actual fact my friend was the one who got tricked.

Now the lawyer told them that the worst that can happen is to have a criminal record and they could just get a caution.....the officer that was investigating said cos there was no previous history ith the police then it would probably only be a caution but in the meantime what i need to know is if my friend gets some letters from their embassy or previous employers stating their character then will this help them at all when the interview comes round or even giving names of the people that got them to do it for them.....

Any suggestions would be very welcome

Thanks

What kind of card? What was he getting? You cannot use someone elses creditcard in the UK or Ireland. As above for the offence.

However, if the owener of the card is in court to say it was only because he couldnt speak English then I would imagine its less serious, but then again thats not going to happen is it? :rolleyes:

creditcard fraud is serious. If I was investigating I would be looking for a prison sentence.

[AnGardaSiochana]

Dutyman,
24 hours detention? I presume it was because he had no address within jurisdiction?

Original poster,
Where is your friend now? has he already been to court?

[Dutyman]

AnGarda,

could be a variety of reasons, no address to police bail to, we don't know the time of arrest so it might have been night time and of course he's entitled to his 8 hrs kip, but most likely it's just because the credit card company, which i suspect is what we're dealing with here, had shut up for the night and couldn't give the investigating officers the full details till later, so delaying the interviews etc. Also the scale of credit card fraud is so vast now that you've got to be looking for possible other offences and any connections into a more organised set up rather than the "it's my mates card" scenario. I don't know about the Republic but I've never had a problem keeping a suspect in for the full 24 hrs, most inspectors accept that inquiries take time and authorise without a problem.

[GunnerTriad]

my friend has not been to court.....
what happened is the police asked him some questions first of all and then bailed him out and told him they will be doing a full interview sometime in january and from the result of the interview then we will see what happens.....

i do understand what u are saying that credit card fraud is a criminal offence and no one should be using anyone elses card except for their own but the fact that this has happened to my friend in the first place and with no previous offence whatsoever.......in your opinions what are the likely outcomes and what things can my friend do in order to help himself out....by that i mean things like character references, naming his friend that gave him the card etc.....

[AnGardaSiochana]

Dutyman,
Oh man very different here. No way your getting 24 hours detention for questioning unless someone is dead. There 8 hours eats into our detention time here, the clock only stiops if they agree. Of course no baail address or existing warrants mean hes staying till court in the morning. But for questioning about creditcard fraud it would want to be a seriously big fraud case to get beyong 6 hours.

Original poster,
Its impossible to say, we dont decide sentences. How much was the fraud? How old is he? Will the friend say he gave him the card?

Your whole post is starting to stink, be honest, what did you do?

[GunnerTriad]

its the truth....i did not do anything.....i am deadly serious....what i have said about what happened with my friend is the truth i swear.....

the fraud was for about 200-300 pounds and my friend is 24 years old.......i have no idea if the friend will say he gave him the card or not because the police have not yet been able to question him

the lawyer that was appointed to my friend said it may just be a caution and the officer asking the initial questions to my friend also said that the probability would be just a caution also because of no previous record.....but what i would like to find out is, are they telling the truth or is it just to keeep my friends hopes up?????

will character references and giving name of person who gave card help my friend?????
and if not then what things could he do to help himself ouot???

[Sgt Lobster]

It sounds like your friend was using either a stolen or cloned credit card & is presently on bail to return to the police station whilst further enquiries are conducted into the matter.

Without knowing the full facts nobody can give a definitive answer. I suggest your friend makes an appointment to see his solicitor should he wish to discuss the matter further. I would also like to point out that if your friend fails to answer his bail, he will be liable to arrest under the Bail Act and will definately end up before the court.


Lobster.

[Cockney Corner.]

Hmmm, I agree with AnGarda. Something doesn't ring true with this story. So an officer just asked some initial questions? Did he get bored and just give up before the suspect could give his account at interview (which is, if I have got this right, "Gunner's friend" was given the cloned card by "Gunner's friend's friend"). If he's on the level, why didn't he mention it in the initial interview. Or has someone just told him about the popular "big boys told me to do it" defence.

[GunnerTriad]

an interview has already taken place in which my friend told the officer or cid....whoever it was that he was helping a friend out who gave him the card due to the fact his friend could not speak english.......now the interview has finished and my friend has now been bailed to have another interview in january....

so going by what u are saying is this not what should be happening?????

[Sgt Lobster]

This sounds perfectly right to me, your mate has been police bailed pending further enquiries. Hopefully when he returns to the police station the officer(s) in the case will be in a position to deal with him. As previously stated nobody on an internet forum can possible say what will happen to your friend as we are not in full possession of the facts.


Lobster.

[GunnerTriad]

thats fine i completely understand....i realise that without all the facts nobody on this forum can be expected to give me the exact things that will happen.............

all i really want to know, if u know, that is.....is if my friend gives some character references to his brief or appointed lawyer when he gets some then will this help him out a bit in the mean time with the investigation??

[AnGardaSiochana]

thats fine i completely understand....i realise that without all the facts nobody on this forum can be expected to give me the exact things that will happen.............

all i really want to know, if u know, that is.....is if my friend gives some character references to his brief or appointed lawyer when he gets some then will this help him out a bit in the mean time with the investigation??

Over here it could work against him if its a certain judge (He hits the roof if people even try to tell him how nice the offender is) however reality is its indifferent. If the judge wants to know how nice he is and the chances of reoffending it goes to the probation services anjd they prepare a report.

[London Cop]

I'm agreeing with some of the other guys here. There's more to this. You don't just go into a shop with someone elses card to buy an expensive item (300 quid) while he, presumably, waits outside just because he can't speak english. And when the police turn up Mr Foreigner has done a bunk (which I assume he did as old bill haven't spoken to him yet, and I guess never will.

Your mate wouldn't have much chance of a caution if I was dealing with it (going by the bare facts we have here). I'd be looking for a charge and let the court sort it out.

Unless Mr Foreigner comes up trumps and says your mate was trying to help him out. But then it's still wrong to be using his card.

And you don't need to speak english to hand over an item and a card, then sign on the dotted line or tap in a number.........................

[GunnerTriad]

it wasnt for purchasing an item.....it was actually a forteign exchange place where the friend wanted my friend to go in and exchange for euros......

obviously u people are all teying to dig deeper and presume that there is something going on here that u dont know about but u can have ur own opinion i guess....fact of the mater is these are the facts and thats that

[Sgt Lobster]

So he was trying to obtain foreign currency on a snide card then?

[GunnerTriad]

yes the guy wanted my friend to go in and exchange some foreign currency for him but didnt find out it was not his card until the police came to see him

[AnGardaSiochana]

yes the guy wanted my friend to go in and exchange some foreign currency for him but didnt find out it was not his card until the police came to see him

And the difference is? :confused: Buying an item, obtaining cash. Its the same.

Guess what? I was in Russia recently, couldnt speak a word of the language but still got cash changed.

[GunnerTriad]

ok thats fine.....so obviously in this country because my friend is a foreigner and trying to help a friend out he will get f****d over for it.....

no job prospects cos according to u guys there will be a criminal record.....GREAT!!

[AnGardaSiochana]

ok thats fine.....so obviously in this country because my friend is a foreigner and trying to help a friend out he will get f****d over for it.....

no job prospects cos according to u guys there will be a criminal record.....GREAT!!

Oh Im sorry, I guess we should change the law to allow a defence of A, Im an idiot. B, I didnt know or C, Im foreign, your laws dont apply to me.

BTW, how well does your friend know this 'other guy' and didnt he notice a different name on the card? in fact, why didnt he just translate or explain what your friend wanted to do?

Accept facts, dont expect us to believe a story that is sooooo obviously crap! Were cops for gods sake.

[GunnerTriad]

at the end of the day all i wanted was some advice for my friend......
i knew it would probably come to this at the end of the day cos i been around long enough to know that these sorts of places always end up in this sort of conversation going on......

all i ever wanted to know was what could happen or what can be done but yet all u guys apart from a few all take it so personal and to heart that u end up accusing people of god knows what.....

u can look at all my previous posts and u will see that i have been polite and all that throughout but it is u that start accusing and getting all defensive over every little thing that i am trying to explain......i already said that i dont expect or care whether u believe me or not i am just giving facts and expected to be given a fair answer but instead i get all this sarcasm and stuff......

just says it all about police in UK i guess.....

[AnGardaSiochana]

No no no Gunner, your mentioned the fact that your friend is a foreigner. You attempted to make it personal by accusing us of treating your friend differently because he isnt English.

Also, we asked questions to clarify the story, what your saying stinks of **** to be honest.

So, honestly answer my questions and I will answer yours but we already did. your friend broke the law, the story is bull**** so yeah, hes getting a record.

[GunnerTriad]

what questions were there to clarify the story....
all i kept getting was...'theres more to this then u are tellin us' or ' there is something not right about this' or 'this story is c##p' or 'this story stinks of s##t' and so on and so on....

i did state ALL the facts in my first couple of posts but then u try to turn it into some sort of a staged thing where it was all planned and stuff......

these are the facts my friend gave me...now i cant help if he is not telling me the truth so to be honest i cant see the point of u having a go at me cos i aint done nothing wrong apart from ask a question....and now all of a sudden i am made out to be some sort of criminal cos u cant believe that for once someone is genuinely looking for some advice and guidence from a professional.....

[AnGardaSiochana]

1. How well does your friend know this 'other guy'

2. Didnt he notice a different name on the card?

3. Why didnt he just translate or explain what this guy wanted to do?

4. Isnt he aware that its illegal to use another persons credit/debit card?

These questions need answering and for the record, you should have been thinking these questions prior to asking us. All we are saying is that the story stinks and is not true. Maybe you dont know the full facts, but in that case maybe you should get the fully story and then come back to us. As it is your telling us a one sided lie and expecting us to say "gee, your friend is such a good guy, we will speak with the cop in question and get him off the charge" even though we dont believe a word of it.

So now again I say, your friend broke the law, soon will have a deserved criminal record and should face jail time. If it was your credit card that was stolen I wonder how sympathetic you would be.

[GunnerTriad]

ok i can see that u have gone into ur little interview routine with me.....now as i said before this has nothing to do with me so u need to snap out of ur interrogation mindset and just chill......obviously i probably dont have every single little detail cos i wasnt there!!!!!

fair enuff he broke the law and as stated before i can see that he could or will get a record cos of what it looks like from the otherside but jesus christ u dont need to rip someones head off for asking a simple question......an answer like this from the start would have done me fine......just say what u think and u have so its cool

if u believe what happened then fine if u dont then its also fine.....

so thats all i wanted to know then.....thank u for all the help.... :cool:

[London Cop]

Gunner,

OK. I see what you're saying. We know it wasn't you. So, based on the facts you've told us, these are my observations, and those that will be in the minds of the investigating officers:

1. If your mate has no previous record, that goes in his favour.
2. If his 'mate' was a real mate, why was he on his toes when the old bill showed up ? And was there actually a 'mate' at all ?
3. As others have said here - why did they not go in together, how can he not have noticed a different name on the card, how well did he know this 'mate' ?
4. If he's a 'mate', why can't he be traced now, to come and help out his buddy who's been nicked because of him.
5. If, in fact, there was no 'mate' and it did turn out that your friend was the one behind it all (I'm not saying he was, I'm trying to be helpful) then I'll tell you this - If he wants to be considered for a caution rather than get charged and go to court, he has to admit the offence. I'm not saying that will get him a caution, but he'll never get one otherwise.

And as for you comments about UK police, you've gotta realise that we deal with this sort of stuff day in, day out and we've heard all the bulls**t before, many times.
If your friend is completely innocent, then good luck to him and I'm sure it'll all come out in the wash. But put yourself in an unbiased position and ask yourself if you would believe what you'd just been told.

There you go. I've tried to be as helpful as I can, now it's up to your friend to either find this 'mate' or admit what he did if there was no mate. If there was a mate, he's still broken the law by going in with the card, but the outcome may be different.

My own opinion is that you should ask your friend to be totally up front with you.

[GunnerTriad]

thanks a lot for ur advice and opinion there mate...its much appreciated

i do understand that u guys deal with this sort of thing all the time and i wasnt trying to be cocky or take the ****** with my comments its just that when all these questions were coming at me it was as though the other guys thought it was me that was in the wrong whereas i was just trying to help out a mate....

but i will speak to my friend and see what happens i guess