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View Full Version : The anatomy of a gunfight - The Newhall Incident



Mitchell_in_CT
11-04-2005, 01:09 PM
Edited to reflect old links being removed.

The author who did the original presentation of the incident in 2005 may be rehosting it again on another site.

I'll update when I have the info.

http://www.gunbattle.us/

hemicop
11-04-2005, 01:25 PM
Mitch, thank you. In case yoou didn't know the Newhall Incident is one of the most famous shoot-outs in police history & as far as I know is still brought up in Academy training. What you may not know is that as a result of this very incident many, if not all Dept.'s changed their policy about shotgun storage & reloading practices as (I was told) the offs. were found to have done too many things at the scene as they had done in training which is obviously quite different. Hopefully your post will give some newer offs. something to think about & remind us old guys of a few things.

zap
11-04-2005, 01:32 PM
Isn't this the incident in which one of the officers was found to have a handfull of empty brass in his hand? (because in training he was not allowed to dump the empties on the ground)

hemicop
11-04-2005, 01:34 PM
This was it! CHP also had seal on the shotguns thta wasn't supposed to be broken & if it was some sort of report had to be done. All that changed after this.

Mitchell_in_CT
11-04-2005, 01:36 PM
Mitch, thank you. In case yoou didn't know the Newhall Incident is one of the most famous shoot-outs in police history & as far as I know is still brought up in Academy training. What you may not know is that as a result of this very incident many, if not all Dept.'s changed their policy about shotgun storage & reloading practices as (I was told) the offs. were found to have done too many things at the scene as they had done in training which is obviously quite different. Hopefully your post will give some newer offs. something to think about & remind us old guys of a few things.


No problem.

Old...yeah...hitting 30 must be tough...

RE: Training habits - this was the incident were an officer had the brass in his pockets when he died because he had done it that way at the range becaue they didn't want to have to sweep up brass after practice?

Civilians can learn from the past just like the police, and its a dam shame that training rarely improves unless people die from a lack of progress.

locke1419
11-04-2005, 01:37 PM
Thanks for the post, I learned about that in the Academy about 3 years ago and almost forgot about it.

Mitchell_in_CT
11-04-2005, 01:42 PM
Let the author know what you think and when his book comes out, buy it.

Sktr007
11-04-2005, 04:46 PM
That was the craziest and most interesting thing I have seen in a long time. I had never heard of this incident before. Thanx for the link. And thank all of the officers that serve and protect us each day. This link made me appreciate your service to us even more.

Fraud Dog
11-04-2005, 06:06 PM
A CHP Lieutenant wrote a book about this incident and had a photo section. One photo showed several of the CHP officers laying dead on gurneys in a hospital ER. I have never seen such a sad photo.

Bigg Dogg
11-04-2005, 06:31 PM
We discussed this incident along with the Miami FBI shootout,and the Trooper mark Coates shooting in the firearms portion of the Academy back in the day.Things like these really stick in your mind.

purdinpopo
11-04-2005, 11:00 PM
Back in '93, when I went academy, lots of wheel gun tactics were discussed, and the instructors told us to pocket our brass if in cover (Where else would I be?) as back in the day the savvy criminal was tuned to carry out a rush assault when he heard brass hit the ground.

Tim Dees
11-04-2005, 11:35 PM
It hasn't been promoted yet, but on December 13th Officer.com will be presenting a webcast by Massad Ayoob that discusses the Newhall Incident and other "Lessons Learned from the Early Days." Watch the home page of the web site for registration details.

Mitchell_in_CT
11-14-2005, 01:19 PM
Bump up to the top for people to see.

premium
11-14-2005, 02:43 PM
Wow, that literally gave me the chills. I remember seeing a something about a stop in Minnesota. I think it may have been Minneapolis where an officer was gunned down at a traffic stop and policy was changed after that. I will see if I can find anything.

premium
11-14-2005, 03:10 PM
I just spent the last 25 minutes looking for that officer and I couldint find it. I found one that may have been him but I am not sure it was the story I was thinking about. The story that I found talked more about the policy of having a single officer in the car in high crime areas then it did the actual stop tactics.

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:ShAhYy4AkEMJ:www.mpdfederation.com/richard-miller.asp+Patrolman+Richard+P.+Miller+Sr.&hl=en

hemicop
11-14-2005, 03:51 PM
Incidences like Newhall are relatively few & far between so the older guys tend to forget the lessons or take them for grant it. Me included. What i think is REALLY important is that we (front line offs.) make sure our suprv. ,that set & enforce policy, don't forget these things so they won't come up with these stupid ideas that make Newhall situations possible.

Mitchell_in_CT
11-14-2005, 04:22 PM
Incidences like Newhall are relatively few & far between so the older guys tend to forget the lessons or take them for grant it. Me included. What i think is REALLY important is that we (front line offs.) make sure our suprv. ,that set & enforce policy, don't forget these things so they won't come up with these stupid ideas that make Newhall situations possible.


I hate to sound like an idiot, but what were the stupid ideas that made Newhall possible?

hemicop
11-14-2005, 04:36 PM
(My opinion) Traing offs. to pocket empty rounds, sealing shotguns & keeping them in the trunk & again, my opinion, 1 off cars in isolated areas. A long time ago a 2 friends of mine stopped 2 guys wanted for bank robbery. these guys were known to shoot it out.Our patrol cars had the shotguns in the pass. compartment. When the susps were stopped the off. in the passenger seat immediately drew the shotgun. The suspects werew taken into custody without incident & admitted that as soon as they heard the shotgun being chambered they decided not to fight, knowing the offs. were ready for the situation.

Downeaster
11-14-2005, 06:49 PM
Most significant message to take from the Newhall Incident is, "Fight like you train and train like you fight"!

In stressful situations, muscle memory and trained behavior kicks in and supercedes the "thinking brain".

Recently saw another possible example of "train like you fight" on video. LEO facing off vs armed subject on traffic stop repeatedly orders the suspect to drop his rifle as he is loading it. LEO allows bad guy to load weapon, level it, and open fire without ever going beyond verbal commands. Makes me wonder if the LEOs training in conducting challenges of armed suspects always resolved with compliance or ever progressed to a scenario where he was required to use deadly force.

premium
11-15-2005, 03:36 PM
Anyone else's department not allow the use of electronic control devices?

tan/grn
11-15-2005, 08:16 PM
When I was a civilian in 69 or 70, I took a class at academy attached to my jr. college. This was reenacted by two very professional and decorated LAPD SWAT officers and put a chill on all of us, even those who were not le cadets.

In 76, I became a leo and was exposed to this incident during the academy. I have never forgotten the training nor the incident. I too, saw the coroner's pictures of the deceased officers. It was, as was said, very sad.

One of the things that came out during my first exposure to this incident was that the suspects had trained for this; this was actually an ambush. They had intended to draw the officers to them and gun them down. I do not recall the reasons given as too much time has passed, but I do remember that point.

The CHP shotguns were secured with a paper band and if it was broken, even at the beginning of shift to make sure the gun fed properly, a memo would have to be written.

I also remember one of my dept. firearm instructors telling us he had seen some of the older detectives at the range emptying their brass into their hands and putting it in their pants pocket while at the range. That is the way they had been trained in the "old days." Scary indeed.

BlueKnight116
11-15-2005, 10:32 PM
Mitchell in CT, thanks for posting the above link.


Recently saw another possible example of "train like you fight" on video. LEO facing off vs armed subject on traffic stop repeatedly orders the suspect to drop his rifle as he is loading it.

I believe you saw the "In the Line of Duty" video of the Deputy Kyle Dinkheller shooting incident.

Mitchell_in_CT
11-16-2005, 09:47 AM
Mitchell in CT, thanks for posting the above link.



I believe you saw the "In the Line of Duty" video of the Deputy Kyle Dinkheller shooting incident.

I've seen that one.

That was a disturbing tape. Murder happening in color on the computer screen.

grampa carl
11-16-2005, 12:52 PM
I had no idea a civillian was involved. What discipline that one officer had to roll up on scene, see at least two other CHP officers dead on the ground and a guy with a gun comming at him, and not shoot the civillian!

Also want to say that as a civillian, I've had maybe a dozen contacts with CHP. All the officers have been courteous and professional. There's a lot of CHP in Lake County and I'm glad they're here, God Bless 'um.

Mitchell_in_CT
11-16-2005, 01:50 PM
I had no idea a civillian was involved. What discipline that one officer had to roll up on scene, see at least two other CHP officers dead on the ground and a guy with a gun comming at him, and not shoot the civillian!



Yeah, inserting oneself into a gunfight, even on behalf of Law Enforcement, may just be the last thing someone does.

That said...I'm sure the officers being shot at would rather someone call 1911 (Or place an international call to GLOCK INC.) than 911...

PhilipCal
11-17-2005, 12:46 PM
The CHP website has a recounting of the Newhall Incident. True, it's the "party line" ,but it does provide some pretty good info. Shotgun in the trunk= useless -as in no shotgun.

Mitchell_in_CT
12-29-2005, 05:53 PM
Back to the top for people who didn't see it the first time.

Mitchell_in_CT
04-21-2006, 11:17 AM
bump up. Its been a while for this thread...

hemicop
04-21-2006, 11:23 AM
Mitch, you're right! And the fact it's been brought up again shows the relevancy of re-teaching these kinds of incidents can happen--Those that forget history are condemned to repeat it

Mitchell_in_CT
07-21-2006, 02:28 PM
Time for another bump in this thread.

kadetklapp
07-21-2006, 02:57 PM
The book showing the bodies of these officers was "The Tactical Edge- Surviving High-Risk Patrol" By Charles Remsberg and Calibre Press. A couple of things I might point out is that while Remsberg's books are "old" they are still quite accurate. You can apply most of the knowledge for even today's incidents.

We had a manhunt involving an armed meth cook on Monday. I was the only officer on the perimeter to retrieve my longgun, a Remington 870 Police Magnum, and stand the perimeter with it. After speaking with the other officers, they are now choosing to slide the shotgun or AR-15 out of the trunk and into the front seat....

Mitchell_in_CT
07-21-2006, 03:01 PM
The book showing the bodies of these officers was "The Tactical Edge- Surviving High-Risk Patrol" By Charles Remsberg and Calibre Press. A couple of things I might point out is that while Remsberg's books are "old" they are still quite accurate. You can apply most of the knowledge for even today's incidents.


Speaking of calibre press...

does anyone have the tape of "Surviving Edged Weapons" and is willing to share?

perado
07-22-2006, 03:28 PM
Speaking of calibre press...

does anyone have the tape of "Surviving Edged Weapons" and is willing to share?

While I don't, you might try to google Tueller Drill. If your agency doesn't train it, please have them look into it. Too many people believe the old saw about "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and don't take edged weapons seriously.

Mr. Tueller showed that by allowing someone armed with a knife to get within 21 feet of you, nothing short of a head/central nervous system hit will keep you from being carved to ribbons. In the few seconds in which he is going to bleed out, he'll have time to make you a believer.

Jewell DSP
07-22-2006, 04:08 PM
That's a sad, sad story. It's a chilling reminder of what can happen out there each day and night.

Be safe out there, everyone.

AggiePhil
07-22-2006, 04:17 PM
Thanks for bumping this.

Mitchell_in_CT
07-24-2006, 10:04 AM
While I don't, you might try to google Tueller Drill. If your agency doesn't train it, please have them look into it. Too many people believe the old saw about "bringing a knife to a gun fight" and don't take edged weapons seriously.

Mr. Tueller showed that by allowing someone armed with a knife to get within 21 feet of you, nothing short of a head/central nervous system hit will keep you from being carved to ribbons. In the few seconds in which he is going to bleed out, he'll have time to make you a believer.


I'm not in LE, I just want to get my hands on the video.

kadetklapp
07-24-2006, 11:38 AM
I took a two-day pistol training course when I was in college. It was eerily demonstrated by Capt. Ken Campbell how easy a perp. can close a gap of over 20 feet in only a few seconds. By the time your mind registers the threat and reacts, it's often too late. That's why if they have a knife, they get shot...

jdlong
07-24-2006, 12:25 PM
The Newhall Incident. Scary stuff. Very sad. :( Hence why we all know to NEVER pick up our mags before being given the directive by our firearms instructor. I'm so brainwashed that I don't touch my mags when I'm shooting for fun on weekends. I guess that's a good thing. Eyes on the threat...easier said than done sometimes.

Mitchell_in_CT
09-19-2006, 09:33 PM
Bump back up to the top for people who haven't seen the flash animation linked in the first post.

The author did a great job showing what happened in the incident.

(Oh, and someone find me a copy of "Surviving Edged Weapons". No. Calibre Press isn't selling it anymore ...)

CWMQKClady
09-20-2006, 08:22 AM
That is scary. Those officers seemed so young. What a tragedy. :mad:

Be safe.

LASD6833
09-21-2006, 01:03 AM
I drive by the approximate area where this happened to and from work every day. Seeing the film in the academy almost 17 years ago ingrained in my memory that what you do in training is what you will do when the s**t hits the fan. The photo of them on slabs rammed the message home.

Mitchell_in_CT
12-19-2006, 11:19 AM
#1 - Bump to the top.

#2 - Link to "assisting an officer" thread in Ask a Cop fourm. http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57972

xraodcop
12-19-2006, 01:15 PM
Mitch, thank you. In case you didn't know the Newhall Incident is one of the most famous shoot-outs in police history & as far as I know is still brought up in Academy training. What you may not know is that as a result of this very incident many, if not all Dept.'s changed their policy about shotgun storage & reloading practices as (I was told) the offs. were found to have done too many things at the scene as they had done in training which is obviously quite different. Hopefully your post will give some newer offs. something to think about & remind us old guys of a few things.
The Newhall incident was a BIG wake-up call to the CHP.
Before this, you assumed that drivers would do what you told them to because --You had a gun.
So, when you stopped car, you walked up and engaged the driver in conversation, regardless of what information you had before this.
TA-DA.. the birth of the Felony Stop-or in some agencies, the Hot Stop.

Yet, it only changed tactics. We ( The CHP) were still stuck with: A. a .38 or .357, and B. the shotgun. Neither one is much good beyond 50 feet. What opened CHP Administration eyes there was the North Hollywood bank Robbery. We got AR-15's a year later.

CanuckleHead
12-19-2006, 04:52 PM
I had no idea a civillian was involved. What discipline that one officer had to roll up on scene, see at least two other CHP officers dead on the ground and a guy with a gun comming at him, and not shoot the civillian!

Also want to say that as a civillian, I've had maybe a dozen contacts with CHP. All the officers have been courteous and professional. There's a lot of CHP in Lake County and I'm glad they're here, God Bless 'um.
exactly, even watching the slideshow, when i saw the third car approach i was like nooooo dropt the gun, they are gonna think it was you!!!! haha

Mitchell_in_CT
03-24-2010, 06:24 PM
Back to the top due to the event's anniversary coming up.

And still - someone get me a copy of surviving edged weapons. Leo Gaje is getting old, and I want to get a tape of that video signed by him while he is still alive.

SCV-Sop
03-24-2010, 07:25 PM
Thanks for bumping this. I never saw it.

This is a personally haunting realization for me in recognizing a fault in my own training.

We carried REAL guns in my academy. They had plugs in the barrel and weren’t loaded, but because they were REAL I treated them as such. So while training I never actually pulled the trigger on my REAL gun when pointed at a simulated situation with a real person on the other end. I simulated firing by saying, “FIRE, FIRE, FIRE” and never actually PULLING the trigger on my REAL gun in a training situation.

Then came the day were we swapped out our REAL guns for airsoft guns, and when I was confronted with a deadly force simulation guess what I did?

Yep, I said “fire, fire, fire”, and DIDN’T pull the trigger. I recognized my error in the situation, and followed up with pulling the trigger, but my FIRST action was to say the words FIRE, FIRE, FIRE.

A haunting realization of what just happened were this a real situation hit me like a train.

From then on I made sure to never do that again, I only open my mouth to give commands, and if I mean to pull the trigger I do. Even if it’s a REAL gun with a plug stop in a simulated event. So what role players hear is a “click” of my real gun pointed at them.

My last words are not going to be “Fire, Fire, Fire”

For what an academy costs I think they should issue fully loaded airsoft guns in replacement of carrying real guns so all the consequences can be simulated without actually altering any motor movements officers are suppose to do in a real situation.

My Defensive Tactics trainers cited a real life situation where a Canadian officer handed back an assailant’s fire arm. When the officer trained in disarming an armed assailant he would hand back the weapon to his training partner. In this real life instance the officer disarmed the assailant after a scuffle and then did what he did in training. He handed back the weapon, and it cost him his life.

When we trained, after we disarmed our partner we took a step back and placed the weapon on the ground for the partner to pick up.

Mitchell_in_CT
03-24-2010, 07:32 PM
We carried REAL guns in my academy. They had plugs in the barrel and weren’t loaded, but because they were REAL I treated them as such. So while training I never actually pulled the trigger on my REAL gun when pointed at a simulated situation with a real person on the other end. I simulated firing by saying, “FIRE, FIRE, FIRE” and never actually PULLING the trigger on my REAL gun in a training situation.

Then came the day were we swapped out our REAL guns for airsoft guns, and when I was confronted with a deadly force simulation guess what I did?

Yep, I said “fire, fire, fire”, and DIDN’T pull the trigger. I recognized my error in the situation, and followed up with pulling the trigger, but my FIRST action was to say the words FIRE, FIRE, FIRE.

A haunting realization of what just happened were this a real situation hit me like a train.

From then on I made sure to never do that again, I only open my mouth to give commands, and if I mean to pull the trigger I do. Even if it’s a REAL gun with a plug stop in a simulated event. So what role players hear is a “click” of my real gun pointed at them.

My last words are not going to be “Fire, Fire, Fire”

For what an academy costs I think they should issue fully loaded airsoft guns in replacement of carrying real guns so all the consequences can be simulated without actually altering any motor movements officers are suppose to do in a real situation.

Blade tech offers a plastic replacement barrel that fits in Glock, Sigs & other popular guns.

Prevents you from firing a bullet because it doesn't have a chamber, but you can use a real gun with a yellow plastic barrel in training for draws, disarms and dryfire (well...at least with a sig...the glock...nothing's perfect)

AggiePhil
03-24-2010, 07:33 PM
Sucks that the page for the Newhall AAR on the link in the OP is dead, as are half the other "great American gun battle" write-ups.

http://www.gunbattle.us

leads to

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/newhall.html

Dead.

1042 Trooper
03-24-2010, 07:48 PM
Hey Mitch! Hell of a topic to chime back in with. How have you been - lurking ... are you? :D

The Newhall Case happened just up te road from home for me, BTW. Lots of lessons learned that day are standard issue and procedure now, so the poor guys will always have lived for us all - they have saved lives and prevented many officer deaths.

I don't have Edged Weapons or I'd send it to ya.

Mitchell_in_CT
03-24-2010, 10:20 PM
Hey Mitch! Hell of a topic to chime back in with. How have you been - lurking ... are you? :D

The Newhall Case happened just up te road from home for me, BTW. Lots of lessons learned that day are standard issue and procedure now, so the poor guys will always have lived for us all - they have saved lives and prevented many officer deaths.

I don't have Edged Weapons or I'd send it to ya.

Me...same pile. Different flies. Foreclosures. Felonies. F-heads. Firearms. The usual for practicing law.

The guy who did the original presentation on the Newhall incident is a member of another board I'm on, and he's an instructor at the Rogers Shooting School (if memory serves).

Someone asked if his stuff would be brought back, and I thought of this thread.

Thus, the bump.

Well. That and I need a copy of Surviving Edged Weapons. I need a copy to get signed by the Blade-man himself next time I hit a seminar.

LA DEP
03-25-2010, 01:30 AM
Mitch,

Do you care if it is a VHS tape?.....I know I have at least one.....it is just a matter of WHERE that sucker is socked away (or which one of my many trainees still has it)

SgtCHP
03-25-2010, 08:57 AM
Sucks that the page for the Newhall AAR on the link in the OP is dead, as are half the other "great American gun battle" write-ups.

http://www.gunbattle.us

leads to

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/newhall.html

Dead.

Try this link:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/memorial/newhall.html

or, these:

http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistory/chp-newhall-incident.htm

http://www.the-signal.com/news/archive/1255/

This book was written by a retired CHP Chief:

http://www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail?detail=whatCriticsThink&sku=1884956017&id=15472575

ComicGuy
03-25-2010, 09:33 AM
Try this link:

This book was written by a retired CHP Chief:

http://www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail?detail=whatCriticsThink&sku=1884956017&id=15472575
Its a sad thing that the book's sub-title: "Americas Worst Uniform Cop Massacre" no longer applies. :(

jdlong
03-25-2010, 11:04 AM
Back to the top due to the event's anniversary coming up.

And still - someone get me a copy of surviving edged weapons. Leo Gaje is getting old, and I want to get a tape of that video signed by him while he is still alive.

Amen Brother. I will never forget the first time I reached down to pick up an empty mag prior to being told to do so...eyes off the threat...our Dept. Firearms Instructor ceased the drill and had us clear, holster and return to the benches for a powerful, passionate Newhall Incident training reminder. I was the example of what not to do...and fine with that. :o Tragic lesson and sacrifice by our CHP Brothers. RIP.

Mitchell_in_CT
03-26-2010, 02:37 PM
Mitch,

Do you care if it is a VHS tape?.....I know I have at least one.....it is just a matter of WHERE that sucker is socked away (or which one of my many trainees still has it)

VHS is great. More surface area for a signature.

Mitchell_in_CT
03-26-2010, 02:42 PM
Amen Brother. I will never forget the first time I reached down to pick up an empty mag prior to being told to do so...eyes off the threat...our Dept. Firearms Instructor ceased the drill and had us clear, holster and return to the benches for a powerful, passionate Newhall Incident training reminder. I was the example of what not to do...and fine with that. :o Tragic lesson and sacrifice by our CHP Brothers. RIP.

Um...

I'm not a cop.

However, RE: Firearms training, last class I was at the instructors has us aimed in on the target after we shot, scanned 360, reloaded and were picking up our partially depleted mag - all with the non-dominant hand.

The dominant hand was busy. It had a gun in it and it was pointed at the target.

We did a lot of manipulations by feel with the non-shooting hand because we had to be ready to fire again.

Another thing from that class was their were no empty guns. From the moment the class started till it ended, you were hot.

Mitchell_in_CT
03-26-2010, 03:02 PM
This is what I look like after 2 days of Pekti Tersia. 3/4 dead and ready for more.

Leo Gaje turned 70 the day before that photo was taken. He is the photo in the dictionary for the entry of "dangerous old man".

I needs the tape for the next seminar...

jdlong
03-29-2010, 12:46 PM
Um...

I'm not a cop.

However, RE: Firearms training, last class I was at the instructors has us aimed in on the target after we shot, scanned 360, reloaded and were picking up our partially depleted mag - all with the non-dominant hand.

The dominant hand was busy. It had a gun in it and it was pointed at the target.

We did a lot of manipulations by feel with the non-shooting hand because we had to be ready to fire again.

Another thing from that class was their were no empty guns. From the moment the class started till it ended, you were hot.

The "don't pick up your mags until you're told to do so" is a basic, "early in firearms training" standard for our officers. The concept being, "eyes on the threat", always (no empty brass found in pockets idea). I think you'll find most LE Firearms Instructors emphasizing that early on....at least out here in Cali anyway. We, of course, go through many movement drills that include tactical reloads and using the off-hand to manipulate other tools (cuffs, OC, radio, etc.) "Eyes on the threat always" is a standard regardless of the sophistication of the drill we're going through.

Weapons HOT always...that's a no brainer (unless we're working malfunction drills with snap caps, then all mags and weapons are checked anyway). We've had officers get their butt chewed for breaking leather and delivering a "click" at the call of "THREAT"!! :eek:

BAinCJ
03-29-2010, 03:40 PM
I was in college at the time of the Newhall incident. When I first heard the report about it over the radio, it was so shocking that I could not believe it. Even 15 years later when I learned about the details of how it happened, I still found it hard to believe that four officers died at the scene and the two offenders were able to leave the scene alive.
When I was in law enforcment and had the chance to attend street survival training, I first saw the photograph of all four CHP officers lying on gurneys side by side in full uniform. That is an image I can never forget.

timjoebillybob
03-29-2010, 04:13 PM
Weapons HOT always...that's a no brainer (unless we're working malfunction drills with snap caps, then all mags and weapons are checked anyway). We've had officers get their butt chewed for breaking leather and delivering a "click" at the call of "THREAT"!! :eek:

Do your instructors work malfunction drills into the regular training also? I know of some that do, they load your magazines for you and sneak in some snap caps along with live rounds. Here's an example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDlodGEp_9o

jdlong
03-29-2010, 05:35 PM
Do your instructors work malfunction drills into the regular training also? I know of some that do, they load your magazines for you and sneak in some snap caps along with live rounds. Here's an example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDlodGEp_9o

Yep. Great drill for Tap & Rack. Our Instructor will also load our mags with different round counts. We might start with 15 and 1 but finish with an 8 then 5 round mag. Helps us work on unexpected mag exchanges.