advice on pepper popper targets..please!!

[swatbarbie]

May 4, 2005, I was on duty in my capacity as a police officer. I had been ordered to test fire a 40 caliber at glock hand gun at the city firing range. I will be leaving the city's name out due to a lawsuit pending. Accompanying me was my Sgt. and Corp. my immediate supervisor. After each of us had fired several rounds towards the paper targets, corp. took the hand gun and proceeded over to a station where there was located three metal targets, pepper pooper targes. Per the corp.'s request, I stood slightly behind and to the right of him, and called out the firing sequences as he took aim and fired at three metal targets. Immediately after the corp. fired off one his rounds, a piece of metal ricocheted and struck me in my right eye. I was taken by ambulance to the hospital, where i underwent a seven hour operation. I have subsequently recieved extensive medical treatment and will continue to recieve medical treatment in the future for my condition. I have recieved a permanent injury. I have suffered complete loss of vision in my right eye. The police department has failed to properly maintain and safely keep its metal targets in a reasonably safe condition. The question I have is...how many other fellow officer's out there have had some what of an accident with pepper popper targets ricocheting? And yes.. I was wearing eyewear...the fragment came in at an angle. Any other advice or comments would be greatly appreciated.

[jakflak]

I've been hit by fragments before, but nothing large enough to injure; just hurts like heck.

I can see it happening, though.

[pkagel]

I've been hit a few times by fragments. You have a hard fight on your hands because unless you were wearing ANSI approved safety glasses you are going to have a hard time proving it wasn't your fault. If they were using the wrong ammo for steel targets then you might have something but I doubt it. Their is a certain amount of personal liability that goes along with shooting. I feel very sorry for your situation but I believe the most you can expect is a settlement.

[swatbarbie]

i wasn't shooting. it was the corp. shooting at the time i was injured. i was calling out the sequences to him. the targets that he was shooting on were for high-powered rifles, not hand guns. he was using a 40 cal. glock. when you shoot on pepper popper targets they should fall over when hit. they were not falling over as he hit them, that is why part of the fragment came back. at our city's firing range, as long as you have eyewear on---thats good enough for them, i had sunglasses on. it really sucks...i am only 26 years old and was going to make this my career.....i only got 4 years into it!!!

[pkagel]

I'm not saying it doesn't suck and maybe they might hold some liability in not req'ing you to wear proper safety glasses but all the popper is is a piece of steel that falls down when hit properly. If you were to hit it wrong with a 223 it wouldn't fall any faster than with a 40 in the wrong place. You may be off the streets but you don't have to be completely out of the loop. How about becomming a criminalist now, maybe you can even teach at the academy and show the recruits how important it is that they wear the proper safety equipment.

As far as your lawsuit goes though, the fact that they don't req' safety glasses on the range would be your best bet but I'm not a lawyer so my opinion means nil. Best of luck to you in your suit.

[swatbarbie]

My lawyer is trying to get around the workers compensation claim, it is going to be extremely hard to do because that is why the have workers comp..to protect the city. The only thing that i have ever wanted to do was be a police officer. I was a k-9 officer and on the swat team. The first female in my police department to ever be on the entry team. I loved it. It is very hard to see myself doing anything else, but I know that I need to be thinking of something else. I will be going back to work ( light duty ) in jan 2006. The police department is already treating me like the redheaded step child, due to the lawsuit. I have been told be fellow officers that when I go back to light duty, they will put me in the worst place--behind a desk pushing papers or even worse dispatching!! any comments? lol

[Resq14]

I guess I missed it, so I'll ask...

Why weren't you wearing eye protection at the range? I realize you weren't the one shooting. That's not my question though.

I realize it's now too little, too late... so I'm not monday morning quarter-backing. I just don't know what you're looking for if you failed to use basic safety equipment.

[6233108]

How far away from the targets were you? My vast and extensive knowledge of poppers leads me to the conclusion that you were much too close to this rifle only popper. The minimum safe distance for a pistol rated popper is 12 yards away, for a rifle popper the minimum when shooting rifle caliber is 100 yards, when shooting pistol at a rifle rated popper the distance is about 40% further back than when shooting a pistol rated popper. If you were closer than 17 yards you were in quite a bit more danger of a splashback injury. The fact that the targets were not falling also means that they were not properly adjusted for the weapon they were being shot with. Pistol poppers need to be set so that they will fall quickly upon being struck by the projectile. Seek advice from a qualified Metalurgist and your attorney needs to get a sample of the actual popper used during the incident, it should have been taken out of service ASAP and placed into evidence. You may also be able to get help from another source I will give to you if you PM me.

[Mid_Ohio_Po]

i wasn't shooting. it was the corp. shooting at the time i was injured. i was calling out the sequences to him. the targets that he was shooting on were for high-powered rifles, not hand guns. he was using a 40 cal. glock. when you shoot on pepper popper targets they should fall over when hit. they were not falling over as he hit them, that is why part of the fragment came back. at our city's firing range, as long as you have eyewear on---thats good enough for them, i had sunglasses on. it really sucks...i am only 26 years old and was going to make this my career.....i only got 4 years into it!!!

Unfortunately your city's insurance company probably won't agree that sunglasses are good enough. You have a very tough case on your hands.

[swatbarbie]

As far as the city's insurance goes, i wasn't in the wrong even if i was only wearing sunglasses. In our PGO manual it doesn't state that we have to wear specific eyewear. As long as you have some type of eyewear that fine. There are several officers that just wear their prescription eyeglasses out on the firing range, i see it all the time. My accident was in May of this year, in July i went back out there and there are signs posted everywhere stating ear and eyewear must be worn. The police department has since then issued eyewear to all officers due to this incident. Why does it always seem that something bad has to happen to someone before action is taken to protect another? I guess thats just my luck. I am sure that i'm not the only one that this has happened to. I'll think twice before i go back out to the firing range with just a pair of sunglasses.

[mac266]

I think you all made a BIG mistake by shooting metal targets without shooting glasses. That's grounds for a match DQ in every pistol sport I know of, for the exact reason that happened to you.

[purdinpopo]

Sounds like they screwed up by changing the range and their policy after the accident and before the lawsuit is over. I hope you can find photos of the range sans signs. If they actually changed the policy manual, i would say that my sound like an actual admission that something was wrong.

[jerrymaccauley]

Regardless of the range policy, your department can be held liable for inadequate training and safety procedures. I'm not a huge proponent of lawsuits, but A duty disability after only 4 years won't support you for long. Hire a GOOD attorney and and address the range safety rules, safety equipment, training of the Corporal and anything else that would have prevented such a tragedy. My heart goes out to you because, as a training officer myself, a large part of my allotted training time is spent going over and preparing for the safety of trainees and the range rules.

[mcsexplorer]

Wow,that must hgave hurt,getting hit right near the eye... :eek:

[FEDLEO14]

Hi SWATBARBIE. I don't really have any comment regarding further recourse, but wanted to express my sympathy as a fellow female who would be at a complete loss if I were in your boots. I cannot imagine what I would do if I were not allowed to continue my career in LE. For many reasons, I got a late start, and finally listened to my heart and allowed myself the chance to do what I had always wanted to do. Having the routine halted now, in one second, would be very hard for me to deal with.

Your experience will certainly make me more aware at the range, and more vigilant about making sure those around me are wearing appropriate eye-protection in relation to their distances from the targets. I too have been hit in the face (cheek) by shards coming from the pepper popper targets despite usually being about 25 yards away, as I recall. I take those "glancing blows" as fair warning now, of what possibly could be the result.

I second the post made by another, that your story is one from which many can benefit (range instructors, officers/agents nationwide, worldwide, etc). Maybe you could get a collateral duty giving presentations.

Also, does your SWAT team have a TOC (tactical operations center) coordinator, or similar non-operator slot that you could fill? You could remain part of the team and active in their missions. I know it is not the same, but just being part of the action in that way, and being able to use the knowledge, instincts and skills that got you on the team to begin with in a support capacity, might get you on the road to healing on the inside from this loss. I know I would rather do that than nothing . . .

Again, thanks for sharing your story, and keep us posted on how you are doing.

[Labrock]

First, I'm sorry for what happened to you.

I too am not a fan of lawsuits, but sometimes they are necessary such as this case.

I would think that if you could establish that you were in compliance with accepted agency standards and practices and still were injured, you should be eligible for an award.

Even if it were determined that you were partially at fault, the agency and town are responsible for their end.

Regarding popper targets, we used them last year with handguns at 25 yards, and I was pinged by richocets from what seemd like every shooter. I can't even believe that we use them.

Good luck, and get a great attorney.

[jerrymaccauley]

Many agencies have discontinued the use of popper targets for just that reason. If you shoot steel plates, they should be canted forward to deflect the rounds down. Always wear wrap around eye protection and a wide brimmed hat to prevent fragments or casing from getting behind the lenses. This is standard in most ranges, but I have seen some carelessly run ranges and know of many shooters who just don't understand range safety practices.