DUI and holy wine

[Spee-Dee]

Since there has been such interest in speeding tickets on the way to and from church I pose this question that I have been wondering ever since I turned 15 and got my learner's permit.

The law here states that no learner or probationary driver shall have a BAC greater than .00. So I was wondering, if a probationary driver was stopped on their way home from mass and consumed holy wine and the officer could still smell it on their breath (Communion is right at the end of mass anyways) and blew a little bit over .00, would the zero tolerance for alcohol rule still take effect, considering that the alcohol consumption was such a small amount and for religious purposes anyways. If so, could the driver possibly get off on it by using transubstantiation as an excuse and that they did not actually consume alcohol?

[bigcop97]

Since there has been such interest in speeding tickets on the way to and from church I pose this question that I have been wondering ever since I turned 15 and got my learner's permit.

The law here states that no learner or probationary driver shall have a BAC greater than .00. So I was wondering, if a probationary driver was stopped on their way home from mass and consumed holy wine and the officer could still smell it on their breath (Communion is right at the end of mass anyways) and blew a little bit over .00, would the zero tolerance for alcohol rule still take effect, considering that the alcohol consumption was such a small amount and for religious purposes anyways. If so, could the driver possibly get off on it by using transubstantiation as an excuse and that they did not actually consume alcohol?

This is a police forum...your going to have to use smaller words than "transubstantiation"

[Spee-Dee]

This is a police forum...your going to have to use smaller words than "transubstantiation"


Sorry. That's what we called in in Christian Ethics back in high school.

Transubstantiation is the belief held by many Christian denominations that the Eucharistic elements of bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Jesus during Consecration.

Transubstantiation is generally understood to refer to the belief that at the moment of Consecration, the elements (or "gifts" as they are termed for liturgical purposes) of bread and wine are transformed (literally trans-substance-iated) into the actual Body and Blood of Christ. The terms "elements" or "gifts" are preferred, as it is theologically incorrect to refer to the "bread" or "wine" after they have been consecrated, as Catholics believe they are no longer bread and wine.

I guess I was incorrect to refer to it as holy wine too in my topic.

[gotthblues]

This is a police forum...your going to have to use smaller words than "transubstantiation"
blahhhaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaa














thats okay, i was thinking something else,,,,,something waaay else...

[Spee-Dee]

blahhhaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaa














thats okay, i was thinking something else,,,,,something waaay else...


Is Transubstantiation really that foreign of a word? I had it just sitting in the back of my head and double-checked it to make sure it was the correct word.
Mind you, I learned Antidisestablishmentarianism in grade five.

But can we get back to my question please now that I have defined transubstantiation for you?

[bigcop97]

The best way I can answer your question is that I would hope the officer would use discretion.

I am not saying that the siutuation you are talking about is legal, But depending on my observations I would probably just have the person head on the way....

That is not a green light to grab the Blessed bottle and chug it and drive home....

[gotthblues]

i learned how to spell pudding in the 5th grade. :rolleyes:

i agree with bigcop, even though okla dui laws say that if you are under 21, and you have .02 bac, you are drunk, however, just because you have the odor of an alcoholic beverage and you show no signs of intoxication, i didnt waiste any more time. if the kid under the age of 21 was begging for attention, then that might change things,,

[Spee-Dee]

Legal drinking age is 19 here, but they start giving you the BOC in grade 2 at your First Communion.

[gotthblues]

i dunno, i know that here there are laws that if its against your religous belief your parents cant be held liable, like if you need a heart transplant and your religion bars surgery, and instead your parents give you a pecan for treatment, they cant be held liable for your death,, or something like that.

[Vtfuzz]

In VT if you did not show signs of impairment, you would be issued a civil .02 ticket and lose your license for 90 days.

[Spee-Dee]

In VT if you did not show signs of impairment, you would be issued a civil .02 ticket and lose your license for 90 days.

So what would happen if I argued that I wasn't drinking alcohol and that it was blood instead?

[Styx]

I dont know what you learned in CCD, but ...you are only supposed to sip the blood of Christ NOT CHUG IT. A mere sip should not cause a change on Blood alcohol level.

[CleanCutStu]

...like if you need a heart transplant and your religion bars surgery, and instead your parents give you a pecan for treatment, they cant be held liable for your death...

LMAO! Because as we all know, pecans are a cure-all :)


As for having alcohol in your bloodstream from the Eucharist, I'd agree with gotthblues and say that if you're not doing anything to deserve to be in trouble, then you'd be fine. I'm not sure how much wine you're actually guzzling at mass, but I can't imagine it ever being enough to produce a reading on a PBT that's outside the margin of error for the thing anyway.

The vast majority of wines, just because of the sheer limitations of winemaking, aren't going to be above 15% alcohol, and a half-ounce or less at mass isn't going to cause you any trouble whatsoever. Honestly, if you're worried about smelling of alcohol after a sip during communion, you're probably over-analyzing things! Pop a couple of Tic Tacs when you get in the car ;)

[gotthblues]

LMAO! Because as we all know, pecans are a cure-all :)

Pop a couple of Tic Tacs when you get in the car ;)

you mean they dont work :eek:

i prefer to use pennies. cept they fall out when ya gotta talk.

[purdinpopo]

you mean they dont work :eek:

i prefer to use pennies. cept they fall out when ya gotta talk.


I love that, I have had all sorts of change spat on the counter after they blew, one guy wanted to go to the hospital after he swallowed the nickel he had in his mouth. I handed him his tickets, put him out the front door and said there you go....

[SlowDownThere]

Hey Kid:

If your drinking enough holy wine to register a BAC, then you're a lot holier than thou.

[SammyCal1]

A sip at communion will not register anything. If you do register anything, then you are taking a nice big gulp or three.

[Bluntforcetraum]

NOT AN LEO-Wans't paying attention



That is on thing that I could never do. Get drunk with a priest. I'll end up saying somthing that I'd regret and since he is good with the Lord that would ruin my chances to get in.

[Spee-Dee]

A sip at communion will not register anything. If you do register anything, then you are taking a nice big gulp or three.

Ok, so how much do you have to drink in order for a reading?

I don't touch the stuff anyways. The only time we have it here is at Christmas time which is usually flu season.

[Tennsix]

Not much... Just the odor of your breath is enough to initiate a DWI investigation

[jerrymaccauley]

Remember that the BAC is only a verification of your legal impairment. If you're driving bad enough to get pulled over, you probably had too much to drink, or just shouldn't be driving for other reasons. I know people who get a buzz from sniffing alcohol.

[Spee-Dee]

Remember that the BAC is only a verification of your legal impairment. If you're driving bad enough to get pulled over, you probably had too much to drink, or just shouldn't be driving for other reasons. I know people who get a buzz from sniffing alcohol.

See, I'm talking about a zero alcohol tolerance policy, Not whether or not your impaired. Say I got pulled over for speeding (which I do even when I am sober, not to say that I drive while drunk.) and the officer detect a scent of alcohol, if I told him that I just came from church and at Communion they gave us the BOC, would you enforce the zero tolerance for alcohol for a probationary driver, taking into consideration that you don't need to be drunk to speed and that there's probably a good explanation for this speeding (IE: The homily was extra long and now you got to be at work in 20 minutes and you couldn't leave church early right after Communion because the priest will notice and single you out in front of everyone. Yes, that does happen. Our old priest used to do it all the time.)

[jerrymaccauley]

See, thats why I go to church online now. And the answer from me is no. I would not bother you for the small amount of wine that might be on your breath. You'd have to be licking my face for me to even smell that amount, not that you would.

[Spee-Dee]

See, thats why I go to church online now.

In order for me to get whole church experience I'm required to be in attendence. Unless of course, someone can invent a computer that can distribute communion...

Just think of the possibilities.

[SlowDownThere]

In order for me to get whole church experience I'm required to be in attendence. Unless of course, someone can invent a computer that can distribute communion...

Just think of the possibilities.


For me to get the whole church experience I have to get into my spider man pajamas. Ooops, Just a flashback.

[CleanCutStu]

...You'd have to be licking my face for me to even smell that amount, not that you would.


That comment made my entire day. After the day I had at work, I didn't think there was much that could get me laughing, but that did it! LOL

:D

[Underdog]

California has a zero tolerance level. That means that it is illegal for anybody under 21 years old to drive a vehicle with any detectable amount of alcohol in his/her blood.

From a legal stand point, the argument that the blood was the transubstantiated blood of Jesus Christ would be completely irrelevant. The U.S. Constitution has a clause that prevents government from interfering in the free exercise of religion but the Constitution also has a clause that prevents government from furthering religion. In this case, this means that people who drink alcohol for religious purposes must be treated exactly the same as people who drink alcohol for non-religious purposes.

The legal arguments on this issue basically boil down to beliefs v. acts. You are free to believe anything that you want but you can't do anything that you want.

From both a logical and theological perspective, if the wine was transubstantiated into blood, then there shouldn't be any alcohol in your system anyway. If there is alcohol in your system, then the wine wasn't transubstantiated into blood. Maybe it makes a difference if communion is performed with white wine instead of red.........

[Spee-Dee]

From both a logical and theological perspective, if the wine was transubstantiated into blood, then there shouldn't be any alcohol in your system anyway. If there is alcohol in your system, then the wine wasn't transubstantiated into blood. Maybe it makes a difference if communion is performed with white wine instead of red.........

Oh, so maybe it won't even show up then.

So how come the police don't crack down on the Church for serving alcohol to minors then?

[Underdog]

So how come the police don't crack down on the Church for serving alcohol to minors then?

I suspect that you are scoffing at the serious problem of juveniles consuming the devil's brew under the guise of religion. This is obviously an issue of the slippery slope. Kids start with drinking wine at communion. The next thing that you know, they have progressed to tequila and then on to heroin and a life of crime.

I propose that we initiate a new program called "C.A.R.E." to address this problem. This stands for Communion Abuse Resistance Education.

All joking asisde, at the LAPD, we rely upon the three "C"s of vice enforcement. These stand for conspicuous, commercial, and complained of. If one of the three "c"s applies to a vice problem, then we investigate.

Since communion typically takes place in a church without on-duty police officers being present, the activity is not conspicuous. Televangelists aside, it isn't commercial vice activity either. That pretty much leaves complained of. If somebody were to call an LAPD station and complain that a church is serving alcohol to minors, our policy would require a desk officer to complete a vice report. The vice report would then be assigned to a vice unit to investigate and some poor vice officer would get stuck with the project.

A minor side point here: The last time that I took communion was about twenty years ago in a protestant church. The church provided grape juice instead of alcohol for a variety of reasons. In this case, there was no crime committed.

[Spee-Dee]

A minor side point here: The last time that I took communion was about twenty years ago in a protestant church. The church provided grape juice instead of alcohol for a variety of reasons. In this case, there was no crime committed.

The Catholic Church is very sticky on what can be used for Communion and what can't be.

Supposedly the wine used for Communion is of such a high alcohol content that only priests are allowed to purchase it. That's what my mom tells me at least.

I was "drinking" well before I had my first Communion. My parents taught me responsible drinking (that doesn't mean I don't do the odd binge drinking now and then) all throughout my life. I find though, now that I'm of legal age, I don't drink nearly as much with my friends, but rather I find myself getting drunk at family gatherings.

[CleanCutStu]

I'm not so sure that there is a wine that (with natural fermentation) has an alcohol content of more than 14 or 15%. Physically, it's just not possible to get a higher alcohol content out of it, even by modern winemaking standards.

Even if that were the case, there are other "beverages" out there with extremely high percentages of alcohol, which are perfectly legal to buy by anyone of legal age. I'm not sure why a "high alcohol wine" would be any different, if there was such an animal.

Back when I was a "wild child" of sorts, my friends and I used to buy everclear, drink half the bottle while we poured the other half out in the parking lot in designs and lit it on fire (95% grain alcohol). Oh to be yound and stupid again....not. :)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be critical, just making the observation that I think the "high alcohol, priest-only wines" thing may be a wives' tale.

[CleanCutStu]

.....and I just realized that my brain farted and I already made that point. "Gosh, idiot!"

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

[Spee-Dee]

Back when I was a "wild child" of sorts, my friends and I used to buy everclear, drink half the bottle while we poured the other half out in the parking lot in designs and lit it on fire (95% grain alcohol). Oh to be yound and stupid again....not. :)



That stuff tastes like burning! It's not legal to buy in Canada, but my brother bought a bottle at the duty-free shop on our way back from the US. All I had was a teaspoon of it and my mouth was on fire.

[PhilipCal]

Okay Spee-Dee, I'm a Catholic and I think I can help you. The amount if consecrated wine you recieve at Communion is not sufficient to impair your driving ability. If you drive in accordance with the applicable traffic laws, you shouldn't have to worry about being stopped anyway. Also, you have the option of NOT recieving wine as part of the Eucharist. Your participation in the sacrament is valid without the wine.

[Spee-Dee]

Okay Spee-Dee, I'm a Catholic and I think I can help you. The amount if consecrated wine you recieve at Communion is not sufficient to impair your driving ability. If you drive in accordance with the applicable traffic laws, you shouldn't have to worry about being stopped anyway. Also, you have the option of NOT recieving wine as part of the Eucharist. Your participation in the sacrament is valid without the wine.

Yeah, I was just wondering about the "zero-tolerance." I don't touch the stuff anyways. We only have it Christmas and Easter Vigil. Christmas is flu season and Easter Vigil is around 3 hours long so I don't go.