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napes
08-29-2005, 04:42 AM
Hey everyone,

Im sure youve all been asked this a 100 times over....

Im a 26 year old British chap, who's here in the US legally (obviously!!!) Ive just got my green card and my official immigration status is "permanent resident".

Immidetly prior to emmigrating here i was a Police officer with the Metropolitan Police in London, England. I left in very good standing and have all of the references / discharge papers to prove it.

I want to get back into Law Enforcement now that im over here, but the only problem i have is that im not a US Citizen and current immigration law means that i cant apply for citizenship for another 3 years.

Question is - does anyone know if thier dept will hire somebody who has a green card and isnt a citizen?.

I live in FL but would move no probs at all for the right job, so far ive been able to find a few depts including Chicago PD, Hawaii, Alaska, Some West Virginia dept (incl the state police) but id GREATLY appreciate any directions that anyone may have.

Right now im in Florida, where FL law states that you have to be a US citizen to be a cop - i just need to find the right dept and ill be out of here before you can say "hurricane"

Thanks for your time

Malcolm

CarCop
08-29-2005, 04:56 AM
I can't tell you which departmnet they are but SOME do allow residents to join their departments. As you know that is not the norm. Most departments require citizenship. I believe IL has some that accept reidency, but not sure on what department. Good luck to you.

PS: They have had some threads here not too long ago with more info if you want to do a search.

jakflak
08-29-2005, 05:09 PM
One of the guys I went to the academy with was a British citizen. Our department hires non-citizens if you are legal to work here.

It's the North Slope Borough Police department in Barrow, AK.

http://www.north-slope.org/nsb/default.htm

Tim Dees
08-29-2005, 05:24 PM
One of my trainees (when I was a cop and an FTO) was a British immigrant. He had been a constable briefly in his early 20s, then spent 10 years in the Royal Army, and then emigrated to the U.S. He worked for the Norman, OK PD for five years, during which he became a citizen. Apparently, they did hire non-citizens at one time. I have heard that Hawaiian LE agencies are more flexible in hiring non-citizens, but I have not confirmed this myself.

Some states require their officers to be citizens by statute. Others don't mention it, so it's left to the individual agency. I'd suggest that yoou locate an outfit that you would like to work for, and then see if they will consider you.

co911
08-29-2005, 05:25 PM
There are some very decent Colorado depts which do not require citzenship. You might want to check the POST requriements in WV. If POST requires citizenship, all depts have to require it. Check your PMs.

PhilipCal
08-29-2005, 06:39 PM
U.S. Citizen ship is a requirement on MOST U.S. law enforcement agencies. What I would suggest you do is start going through various LE agency websites, many of which can be accessed through Officer.com. Quite a few agencies post their requirements, including citizen ship. Quite a few will allow you to down load applications as well. Your willingness to relocate is a major plus. I feel certain too, that your service as a London Metropolitan Police Officer will stand you in good stead in your further career. Good luck.

PABear31
08-29-2005, 10:01 PM
Many agencies have a citizenship requirement but Federal law prohibits any employer from discriminating against any legal resident in employment matters. Check with an attorney that specializes in employment law and apply for any agency that you want to work for.

mosetti
08-30-2005, 12:08 PM
...then spent 10 years in the Royal Army...

Not trying to pick on you, but it is the British Army not the Royal Army (I got blasted for saying that when I worked in NATO).

Back to the subject at hand. If you are trying to get citizenship join the Reserves or National Guard. You can apply for citizenship for serving during a time of conflict (Sep 2001 - Present) and all fees are waived (as of Oct 2004). Not all NG and Reserve units are eligible.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/MilitaryBrochurev7.htm

co911
08-31-2005, 06:33 AM
Many agencies have a citizenship requirement but Federal law prohibits any employer from discriminating against any legal resident in employment matters. Check with an attorney that specializes in employment law and apply for any agency that you want to work for.

No disrespect but I wouldn't take that advice too seriously. Firstly, who has the time, energy or money to retain an attorney? Do you really want your police application to be accompanied with the threat of a lawsuit? Can't see you getting hired with any dept you challenge. Police applicants have challenged US citizenship requirements in court and not made serious headway against the regulation. Finally, most state POST organizations require citizenship, which overrides the agency requirement. All an agency in that state has to do is refer your expensive attorney to the state POST agency who made the requirement. You would need deep pockets to fight them.

L-1
08-31-2005, 03:41 PM
In California, you can get hired as a peace officer provided that you are eligible for, and have applied for citizenship.

For further info see:

http://www.post.ca.gov/selection/imigrationcitizen.asp

napes
08-31-2005, 03:44 PM
Thanks to everyone who posted a reply in here, Ive done a search through the forums using the words "green card" and "permanent resident" and through those (along with the helpful Pm's from a few people!) ive got a pretty good idea of my options.

At the min the list seems to be like this

ALL police departments in Hawaii and Alaska would appear to be open.

MOST police departments in Ohio, Colorado, Vermont, West Virginia (including the state police)

And SOME departments in Illinois (including Chicago PD), Virginia, Washington state and Oklahoma

California and a few other states will take you as a permanent resident, however you must have already be eligible for citizenship and HAVE ALREADY APPLIED with INS or whatever immigration calls themselves now.

For anyone who might be in the same situation as me - try going on yahoo.com and searching using the keywords "police officer employment legally able to work in us" or "permanent resident police officer career"

this will bring up links to departments across america and you can open up each one and look at the individual criteria, It definetly appears that our cause is not lost - the light at the end of the tunnel may not be an oncoming train!.

One final thing, Thanks for the advice that you can potenially sue or force a department to take you on the basis that its against the law for them to discrimininate against aliens. Personally id never undergo that route, im definetly with co911 in the opinion that id hate to re-start my career with a department after undergoing that route.

Im the one thats emmigrated to america, i must therefore accept things here as they are.

If anyone works for a department who will take applicants who just have green cards, id very much appreciate a PM!.

Thanks

Mal

PABear31
09-01-2005, 12:27 AM
Most police agencies either aren't aware of the requirements of Title X or believe that resident aliens will be put off by the US citizenship requirement. I wouldn't suggest suing a police agency. Just having an attorney write a letter to point out the Federal statute would probably be enough to have the agency or POST policy changed. After all what state or local agency could afford the loss of federal grant money that would or could be withheld for a violation of Federal law. Federal anti-discrimination law superscedes state hiring practices.

napes
09-01-2005, 12:49 AM
Ok, now im intregued -

I dont think id have too much of a problem in getting an attorney to write up a letter simply pointing out the matter...

But where would that leave me for states like florida where the citizenship requirement is actually written into the florida statutes?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

FL STATUTE -

943.13 Officers' minimum qualifications for employment or appointment.--On or after October 1, 1984, any person employed or appointed as a full-time, part-time, or auxiliary law enforcement officer or correctional officer; on or after October 1, 1986, any person employed as a full-time, part-time, or auxiliary correctional probation officer; and on or after October 1, 1986, any person employed as a full-time, part-time, or auxiliary correctional officer by a private entity under contract to the Department of Corrections, to a county commission, or to the Department of Management Services shall:

(1) Be at least 19 years of age.

(2) Be a citizen of the United States, notwithstanding any law of the state to the contrary.

(3) Be a high school graduate or its "equivalent" as the commission has defined the term by rule.

ETC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So any ideas where this might place me given that the discrimination is actully written into state law?

Thanks again!!!

Mal

(id best not create too much fuss else ill be deported!)

napes
09-01-2005, 12:51 AM
any any ideas where i might get a copy of this federal law so that i can look at it myself?

napes
09-01-2005, 01:03 AM
two posts above youll see statute 943.13 which says i have to be a US citizen to be a sworn officer.

however ive just found this other florida statute on the fl senates page -

--------------------------------------------------------------------------112.042 Discrimination in county and municipal employment; relief.--

(1) It is against the public policy of this state for the governing body of any county or municipal agency, board, commission, department, or office, solely because of the race, color, national origin, sex, handicap, or religious creed of any individual, to refuse to hire or employ, to bar, or to discharge from employment such individuals or to otherwise discriminate against such individuals with respect to compensation, hire, tenure, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, if the individual is the most competent and able to perform the services required.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

it says that it is against the public policy to discriminate against hiring people based on race etc - one of the factors is "national origin" would the fact that although legally in the US im not a US citizen count for that????

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Strummer
09-01-2005, 10:29 AM
It's against Federal Law to discriminate against you based on your national origin. But your citizenship status is not mentioned. I would take with a grain of salt the "legal" advice you are getting. Of course employers (especially those dealing in public safety/national security) should be able to and indeed do discriminate against those who are not US citizens.

You have no grounds for a federal civil rights lawsuit. In fact, the federal govt is an everyday discriminator against non-citizens. See if you get a Special Agent job with any federal law enforcement agency without US citizenship. Try and get any job in the military that requires even a low level security clearance...

If you look around, there are plenty of agencies that will hire you with a Green Card. Find out which states don't require US citizenship to certify you as a police officer, then search within those states for agencies that don't insist on it.

However, be warned...the hiring pipeline can be long and drawn out. Red tape and bureacracy are just a s frustrating in the US as I'm sure you found it in the UK.

Later.

Tim Dees
09-01-2005, 11:40 AM
Not trying to pick on you, but it is the British Army not the Royal Army (I got blasted for saying that when I worked in NATO).You know, he always called it the British Army, and I was trying to be politically correct. Obviously, I failed at it. :o Aren't the other services (Air Force, Navy, Marines) "Royals?" I wonder why the Army is different?

mosetti
09-01-2005, 11:58 AM
It has something to do with how thier Army has formed through the years. In the RAF and Royal Navy there are no subordinate units with the Royal moniker, perhaps with the exception of the Royal Marines. I am not sure if they fall under the Royal Navy or if they are thier own entitiy. If I am not mistaken the Royal moniker is a honor bestowed by the Monarch.

napes
09-01-2005, 12:26 PM
god this is getting into a long drawn out forum,

Having done a bit of reaserch myself - Citizenship status IS mentioned,

quote -

Sec. 44.200 Unfair immigration-related employment practices.

(a)(1) It is unfair immigration-related employment practice
for a person or other entity to knowingly and intentionally discriminate
or to engage in a pattern or practice of knowing and intentional
discrimination against any individual (other than an unauthorized alien)
with respect to the hiring, or recruitment or referral for a fee, of the
individual for employment or the discharging of the individual from
employment--
(i) Because of such individual's national origin; or
(ii) In the case of a protected individual, as defined in
Sec. 44.101(c), because of such individual's citizenship status.
(2) Intimidation or retaliation. It is an unfair immigration-related
employment practice for a person or other entity to intimidate,
threaten, coerce, or retaliate against any individual for the purpose of
interfering with any right or privilege secured under 8 U.S.C. 1324b or
because the individual intends to file or has filed a charge or a
complaint, testified, assisted, or participated in any manner in an
investigation, proceeding, or hearing under that section.
(3) Documentation abuses. A person's or other entity's request, for
purposes of satisfying the requirements of 8 U.S.C. 1324a(b), for more
or different documents than are required under such section or refusing
to honor documents tendered that on their face reasonably appear to be
genuine and to relate to the individual shall be treated as an unfair
immigration-related employment practice relating to the hiring of
individuals.

section (a)(1)(ii) states that in the case of "protected individuals" it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of citizenship status - provided that the alien is an authorised one (ie - Legal)

Having looked up section 44.101 Protected aliens are ones who are permanent residents and a few other categories - which i am.

So Citizenship is mentioned.

PABear31
09-01-2005, 03:58 PM
The Federal govenment is exempt from the fair hiring practice statutes, because Congess wrote them that way, but states and local governments aren't. Federal law supersedes state statutes.

swarhc
09-01-2005, 07:52 PM
[

Right now im in Florida, where FL law states that you have to be a US citizen to be a cop - i just need to find the right dept and ill be out of here before you can say "hurricane"

Thanks for your time

Malcolm[/QUOTE] :confused: Hi Malcom,than don

Strummer
09-01-2005, 11:47 PM
"Citizenship" is not a protected class under federal civil rights act. You have no case. Find a dept that does not require citizenship (then are lots of them) or else become a citizen.

I was in the same boat as yourself several years ago. I kept searching until I found departments who would let me test without being being a citizen.

You are really grasping straws if you think you can sue your way onto a dept because of "citizenship" discrimination.

It might not be a bad idea to apply for some agencies with long hiring pipelines. By the time your number comes up you could very well be about to get your US citizenship. When I applied for citizenship the process took about 6 months.

Also, be aware you can start the citizenship application process 6 months before your 5 year residency has been reached.


Later.

napes
09-02-2005, 04:20 AM
Im not going to fight it or anything but i think your wrong -

It clearly says as per my post above that Citizenship IS a protected status, the same as race, sex etc

vpscguard
10-02-2005, 02:55 AM
Thank you all and especially "napes" for this thread. I have been a corrections officer in Vancouver, Canada since 1995 and I am very interested in pursuing a career in L.E. in the U.S. Only problem is I don't have a green card and am not even sure how to obtain one. I remember someone telling me on this website to join your military because apparently, they accept Canadians for recruitment. Would this be the only way to obtain a green card without waiting 10 years on a waiting list? Any advice?

I would be willling to seek U.S. citizenship if required, in order to pursue a career in U.S. L.E. Thanks in advance.................

cst.sb
10-02-2005, 02:33 PM
Thank you all and especially "napes" for this thread. I have been a corrections officer in Vancouver, Canada since 1995 and I am very interested in pursuing a career in L.E. in the U.S. Only problem is I don't have a green card and am not even sure how to obtain one. I remember someone telling me on this website to join your military because apparently, they accept Canadians for recruitment. Would this be the only way to obtain a green card without waiting 10 years on a waiting list? Any advice?

I would be willling to seek U.S. citizenship if required, in order to pursue a career in U.S. L.E. Thanks in advance.................

I posted something similar a few years a go under a different nickname. I was frustrated with trying to get into policing in Canada in the mid 90's and had given up and was looking south of the border. Then a Mountie replied and told me to apply to the RCMP one more time. I did, and I sailed on through.

So, I am going to do the same to you! Why not apply to the RCMP?

We need good people so bad that you only compete against yourself! If you pass all the benchmarks you're in. It's that simple.

Private Message me if you want too.

napes
10-02-2005, 06:40 PM
Hope it is of some help to you!

as for getting your hands on a green card, it really boils down to one of a few ways to get you hands on one.

From the little i know ( having been through the system myself) you can only get one if you fit into one of the following groups -

1. You have an immediate family member that is a us citizen (mother, father, spouse etc)
2. You hold an "advanced degree" and / or are a "skilled worker" and can self petition to emmigrate based on your "exceptional ability"
3. You have a ton of cash and intend to use it to start up a Business that will employ 10 US citizens
4. you get one from the green card lottery

theres a few other ways - and most of them are answered by looking at this link to the USCIS site.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/faqs.htm

the rules might be different for canadian citizens, check it out!

and good luck....! - its definetly attainable

Mal

napes
10-02-2005, 06:45 PM
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35948&highlight=napes

3India
10-03-2005, 09:54 PM
Napes,
Just went over the IMLaw regarding you, an Lawful Permanent Resident(LPR), holding a valid I-551 card can work in the U.S. as a LEO. However, Federal law can be superceded by State law, as in the case of Florida's statute. I suggest looking for a jurisdiction that doesn't require US citizenship. Good luck! I also recommend that you look into status change as soon as possible to get the ball rolling as it may take up to two years to effect the change.

co911
10-04-2005, 03:11 AM
Strummer I think you can apply three months before you are eligible for citizenship, not five. If I'm wrong, I'd love to know more!

vpscguard, as far as I know the US military does not hire or recruit Canadian citizens. You need US permanent residency to even apply to the US military. Otherwise, every foreign national would enter the US via the military. Working here is not easy to do legally. Your best route would be to marry a US citizen, or to become a police officer in Canada, then gain sponsorship from a US LE agency and lateral across. I doubt a US agency would take you as a corrections officer, as they don't generally even offer police laterals to US CO's.

Ghostrider_RSA
10-04-2005, 04:42 AM
Napes : I'm in the same boat as yourself as of next year.

Looking at potential in Alaska (actually not half bad having spent a month out there) and Virginia.

Other potential and great feedback from Fairfax County PD in Virginia and Phoenix PD in Arizona.

Best of luck to you! *s*

co911
10-05-2005, 08:40 AM
Napes you forgot the process whereby a US employer who cannot hire US citizens sponsors an applicant for a job and thereby permanent residency.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/residency/employment.htm

Cold Zero
08-11-2006, 03:33 PM
So Napes, ever get hired?

napes
08-11-2006, 03:43 PM
YES!

And everyday i have to stop myself from giving people the British miranda warning!