from military LE to civilian LE

[gh0st]

i am definitely going to take ROTC. i dont want to make a career out of the military; at some point i want to be a civilian officer. naturally i have about a million questions.

what is the difference between an enlisted MP and a officer MP? is the difference strictly in terms of the pay scale and/or what else..?

how desirable (compared to other things) is military police training/experience? would it qualify you for lateral entry into most departments?

airforce security forces or army MP? which is more desirable?

thanks for your replies :)

[Airforcop]

I can only talk with experience from being a cop in the Air Force. Going into military law enforcement as an officer compared to as enlisted is a huge difference. If you want to get your hands dirty and actualy do the job, then enlisted is the best way. As an officer you will just supervise. For the first few years as an officer, you would most likely be assigned to a flight and technically be in charge of all the people under you, but there will also be an NCO or senior NCO (anywhere from a E-5 to a E-7) actually running the show seeing they actually know what's going on. Once an officer makes Capt, think 4 years or so after joining, you can plan on working behind a desk for the rest of your career. As enlisted, you can plan on doing the job until you either choose to put in for a desk job, or make enough rank where they kind of force you to, to assist with future career progression. Obviously, the pay is better for officers as well as the respect and all that.

Depending on what exactly you do as a military cop will dictate if you can get your state academy waived. Just because you have gone through and academy and are a military cop, does not mean you will qualify. You will have to do atleast 1 year of strictly law enforcement work while in the military. In the Air Force, more and more of our law enforcement is getting contracted out and we doing more deployments and focusing on nuclear security. The only state I know off hand that may consider your military time is Florida, there might be a few others out there. Regardless, you won't be considered a lateral. You will be an entry level applicant with no experience, but may have your academy waived or shortened drastically.

I would say go Air Force. Unless you like the Army, the Air Force is much more laid back and the facilities and everything are a million times better. As a cop in the Air Force, you will still get to "play Army" as they are slowly but surely trying to turn us more into an infantry type unit than cops. For the most part, the Air Force takes cares of their people very well, in the Army you kind of know what to expect, after all, their entire mission is to fight wars. The Air Force's mission is to protect the aircraft so they can bomb the **** out of stuff. 2 totally different life styles. Let me know if you have any other questions. I'm sure others will chime in.

[gh0st]

so to make the civilian comparison, an AFSF officer would be equivilent to a lieutenant, not really doing much on the patrol side of things? i dont really want to be a desk jockey for 4+ years, and i want adequate law enforcement experience. i dont want to enlist, but i want to get my hands dirty, is basically it. will a commission allow me to do that in the military?

[Airforcop]

I wouldn't for a second try and pursuade you from going officer. Your time in the military will be much more enjoyable as an officer. Truth told, you'd probably be more marketable having been an officer for 4 years than enlisted. Enlisted you might have a little more hands on experience, but the real world is much different than that of the military, so you'd have to learn all over again anyhow. Being an officer, you'll have a lot more leadership experience which will probably go a lot farther than a few years experience as an enlisted cop. For the most part, a new officer in the SF career field could dictate how much involvement they have. Most kind of sit back and let the Flight Sgt (E-5 to E-7) run things and they kind of work as the liason between the flight and the squadron. But being in charge, you certinaly have the freedom to be as involved as you want.

I would probably equate a new officer to a Sgt on the road, minus the experience and knowledge if that makes any sense. Basically, they get invovled when needed or at their discretion. Certainly by the time you make Capt, you would be an equal of the LT is a civ agency where you're stuck behind a desk. I know many officers whom have had the opportunity to go through the FBI Academy, as well as a ton of other schools. Not sure that is something that would happen in a 4 year enlistment, but possible.

[USCGjoker]

i dont really want to be a desk jockey for 4+ years, and i want adequate law enforcement experience. i dont want to enlist, but i want to get my hands dirty, is basically it. will a commission allow me to do that in the military?

Try the Coast Guard. Our Commissioned Officers, Warrant Officers, and Petty Officers are Federal L/E officers and conduct Maritime Boardings. The Coast Guard also has a few Police Departments around, the largest one is here in Kodiak, AK. We work very closely with the Alaska State Troopers, and every once and a while Kodiak Police Department. We enforce Federal, State, and Local laws as well as the UCMJ. Here in Kodiak you have a chance to go to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, and the Alaska State Trooper academy. How ever only the enlisted Boatswain's Mate and Gunner's Mates are Military Police Officers. Let me know if you want more info on the Coast Guard. One thing I forgot to mention is we have the power to arrest in the Coast Guard. At my CGPD we usually don't due to the fact its easier to let the state handle it.

Joe

[spartanws6]

hey ghost...

I just seperated from the AF securiity forces career field a few months ago as a capt (officer if you are not familiar with the ranks) and am currently in the academy for las vegas metro PD. Obviously you have a lot of questions and concerns about the career fields and ranks and I am sure I could help at least clear up some of the fog per se.
To tell you the truth I can give you a lot of input, but it would be pages long :-) I have worked LE, security and was actually in Iraq for the building of a base, where I worked with a number of army MP units. If you are interested, PM me and I will shoot you my number. Much easier to have a chat then type all of this subject matter out. lemme know

[marshaldan]

i am definitely going to take ROTC. i dont want to make a career out of the military; at some point i want to be a civilian officer. naturally i have about a million questions.

what is the difference between an enlisted MP and a officer MP? is the difference strictly in terms of the pay scale and/or what else..?

how desirable (compared to other things) is military police training/experience? would it qualify you for lateral entry into most departments?

airforce security forces or army MP? which is more desirable?

thanks for your replies :)

You will never be a civilian again. You will be on a DoD list until you die or you are dishonorably discharged.

[Bigd1970]

Ghost,

I'm currently a Special Agent in the US Army CID. Do not go in as an Enlisted Member. Go anywhere but do not go into the Army. The Air Force takes better care of their members. Go in as an Officer no matter what branch of service you go into. I am about to finish my contract with the Army and am being forced to stay in longer to deploy to Iraq for a year. When I finish I will be done with the Army.

[spartanws6]

Ghost,

I'm currently a Special Agent in the US Army CID. Do not go in as an Enlisted Member. Go anywhere but do not go into the Army. The Air Force takes better care of their members. Go in as an Officer no matter what branch of service you go into. I am about to finish my contract with the Army and am being forced to stay in longer to deploy to Iraq for a year. When I finish I will be done with the Army.

Ditto to everything he just said

[marshaldan]

As you know they can recall you wether you are finished or not.

[Crazed]

so to make the civilian comparison, an AFSF officer would be equivilent to a lieutenant, not really doing much on the patrol side of things? i dont really want to be a desk jockey for 4+ years, and i want adequate law enforcement experience. i dont want to enlist, but i want to get my hands dirty, is basically it. will a commission allow me to do that in the military?

Usually when you do ROTC it requires 8 years of service.

As an enlisted you will get your hands dirty but not nessesarily gain any valuable law enforcement experience. Remeber **** flows down. I can't speak for the airforce but as far as army I can tell you right now you will not enjoy being enlisted, unless you are planning on making it a career.

Joining as an officer you might not be as hands on but you will be supervising your troops and will have a better overall knowledge of the job and mission.

A desk is a lot better than some of the other things the Army will have you doing.

[Cerberusdog]

Ghost,

I'm currently a Special Agent in the US Army CID. Do not go in as an Enlisted Member. Go anywhere but do not go into the Army. The Air Force takes better care of their members. Go in as an Officer no matter what branch of service you go into. I am about to finish my contract with the Army and am being forced to stay in longer to deploy to Iraq for a year. When I finish I will be done with the Army.

It is true what is said here. As a former SP and Dept. of the Army cop I can speak volumes for the USAF program. The reason I went that route in the first place was because police recruiters told me up front that they didn't take a second look at former MP's but Air Force cops were far more readily considered.

[DOAcop38]

In Calif, military bases Like The Naval weapons station in Port hueneme ( Ventura,CA) and fort hunter leggit, the MP forces actually do a lot of trng in coordination with with the local civilian counterparts.I have even been to CA. POST (peace officer standards and training ) classes with federal /military police personnel.Alot of the requirements to operate in Ca maintain that certain types of law enforcement adhere to the states standards,whether they engage in regular enforcement of federal or state laws.But when it comes to the transition for military to state, most civilian agencies tend to lump in the overall service performance in the military ,seeing the MP job class as a "speciality".I've had co-workers who were former Rangers,Air force Para Rescue, even a NAVY SEAl, MP k-9.! they all had to go thru basic academy, then patrol before they could even compete for such assignments as SWAT/SRT and K-9s ( and that was against personnel without prior military).

If you are an MP,SP,etc and recieve state based trng also,emphasize the state based trng to the area you want to work in. many Ca agencies welcome college educated applicants and former military personnel.with military personnel that are preparing to seperate from federal service, you can ask the agency(ies) you apply for accelerated processing. the Ca highway Patrol, LAPD,San Diego PD,San Francisco PD,L.A.County Sheriffs,etc, almost 80% of the states agencies, have similar programs,and you can start working ( academy recruit) in a matter of months instead of the usual 12-18 mos it takes to process.I even know of a former marine that took ext. POST police academy trng while stationed in San diego,Ca upon his seperation from the Corps in 2002, he was able to bring his POST certificate to his application process,and became an L.A. School PD officer in about (6) months! I know that a lot of military personnel seem to look at federal agencies,but Ca has a myriad of City,State,county, and district police Depts that offer a lot of opportunities and specialized assignments-and the avg pay in Ca is $45-$80K/yr.As always you must prepare yourselves for the next "step".

[k5fan01]

Being prior military enlisted or officer will just get you points on an exam into the civ agency or veterans preference. I have yet to see a civilian agency accept a MP as a lateral. They are two totally different worlds and they I wouldnt expect them to. I am about to get out after five years MP. I have to go through the same process as the average joe. Now I have a spot to fill on the resume and the pts. If you are not making a career I would just go civilian law enforcement.

[Polski201]

If you want to serve your country in the Military Police Corps, officer and enlisted are both good options, depending on what you are looking for. The problem with going officer, is that even if your degree is CJ you are not guaranteed what branch/job you get.

That means that you are not guaranteed you will be an MP officer. Officers in the Army DO NOT pick their jobs like the enlisted guys do.

When you enlist, you are guaranteed a job you sign a contract for, they wouldn't offer it to you if you didn't score high enough for it on the ASVAB. As an officer, you make a wish list of the top three or so jobs you want, and what you get depends on the needs of the Army, your degree, and your competitiveness with all the other ROTC graduates, OCS graduates, and West Point graduates.

Unless your degree is in engineering or nursing, there is no way of knowing if you will get MP, Armor, Infantry, Commo...etc. They can't even tell you what your chances are.

On the other hand, when you enlist, you get that job, but you don't get to pick where you are stationed. You may end up doing some police type work (if that post hasn't gone to contract police services) or you might end up in a field MP unit where you train on infantry like tactics and deploy. MP used to stand for Military Police, now it means Multi-Purpose!!!

If you can get assigned to a garrison MP unit, then you will be doing civilian like law enforcement stuff, like responding to calls, arresting, citing...etc. But you don't get to make that choice of where you go and what you specifically do.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

[navycop04]

Being prior military enlisted or officer will just get you points on an exam into the civ agency or veterans preference. I have yet to see a civilian agency accept a MP as a lateral. They are two totally different worlds and they I wouldnt expect them to. I am about to get out after five years MP. I have to go through the same process as the average joe. Now I have a spot to fill on the resume and the pts. If you are not making a career I would just go civilian law enforcement.

Well i dont know what departments you been looking at but the State of FLORIDA will allow you to process into a civ agency with your military police training . You have to apply at any local police academy in the state and show prove of your training, courses etc. and apply as an out-of-state / fedaral officer after that its out of your hand the academy will review your paper work and if you meet thier standards you will attend a 2 week crash course going over high risk areas and then take the state exam. a friend of mines who is a former MARINE did it and now he is a cop and im currently in the process my self . i hope this helps

www.fdle.state.fl.us/cjst/officerrequirements/equivalency.html

[irishlad2nv]

Well i dont know what departments you been looking at but the State of FLORIDA will allow you to process into a civ agency with your military police training . You have to apply at any local police academy in the state and show prove of your training, courses etc. and apply as an out-of-state / fedaral officer after that its out of your hand the academy will review your paper work and if you meet thier standards you will attend a 2 week crash course going over high risk areas and then take the state exam. a friend of mines who is a former MARINE did it and now he is a cop and im currently in the process my self . i hope this helps

www.fdle.state.fl.us/cjst/officerrequirements/equivalency.html

MP's are not Federal Police Officers, nor are they Sworn LE. They are Military Law Enforcement, nothing more. Yes they do Law Enforcement, however, you are not a Federal Police Officer. For you to even say an MP is a Fed...# 1. You would have to attend FLETC, Ga. # 2. I have yet to see any MP's at Glynco. # 3. The only course you would be able to show is from basic training and your advance training to become an MP in the military. And any other related courses you have taken. No LE agency that I have ever met has taken anyone directly from the military and allowed them just to do a 2 week conversion.

The Federal Govt. and Militay under (DOD) are two completely different sections of the government.

[navycop04]

good point but there is a special section in application process for military police officers/ and plus I'm not an MP I'm a MA MASTER-AT-ARMS. we are strictly LE on some bases. We also work with federal DoD police officers who are civ. we even attend thier academy classes. its different depending on where you are station. A buddy of mines attend the actual civ police academy in great lakes, IL . SO unlike our MP counterparts that are in the feild with POWs and standing gates or what not we as MA have the leg up when it comes to military LE ........ SO DO YOUR HOMEWORK .... SORRY if i hurt your feelings but u just need to know the facts

[irishlad2nv]

good point but there is a special section in application process for military police officers/ and plus I'm not an MP I'm a MA MASTER-AT-ARMS. we are strictly LE on some bases. We also work with federal DoD police officers who are civ. we even attend thier academy classes. its different depending on where you are station. A buddy of mines attend the actual civ police academy in great lakes, IL . SO unlike our MP counterparts that are in the feild with POWs and standing gates or what not we as MA have the leg up when it comes to military LE ........ SO DO YOUR HOMEWORK .... SORRY if i hurt your feelings but u just need to know the facts
Oh no, my homework is correct. MA/MP, are the same, however the difference is the "title" for your branch of the military. There are no "DOD"Officers either, they are DON (Department of the Navy) Police Officers and the same is in the Army, they are DA Police. Simple fact is, you are not a Sworn Police Officer, you are in the military. There is a huge difference as a Sworn Police Officer to a Military Police Officer/Master at Arms. You are not a Federal Police Officer, as you stated in your other post. That, you should do your homework on. As of right now, they are slowly phasing out MA/MP's to performing Law Enforcement on Military Installations, and allowing the Civilian Police handle everything. Military Police will be uses strictly for War-time efforts/deployments. Yes I know that some bases allow their MP's to attend local police agency classes or even academies, however you are still in the military and have no bearing to call yourself a Sworn Police Officer. When you get out, yes get a job in LE, then you will have that right to call yourself Sworn.

[ftlaudcop]

my agency had a guy that was a.f. police, he was sworn in as a correction deputy, but when he had his paperwork checked by f.d.l.e.
for comparitive compliance, he attended the mandated extra hours
and been on road patrol for about 8 yrs or so.










www.schackdaddy.com

[towncop]

Irishlad2nv, I'll tell you that Navycop04 is absolutely correct. I too have a buddy that was an MP in the Marine Corps for 8 years. Prior to getting out, he interviewed with a Sheriff's agency in south Florida, was hired shortly after his EAS and WAS SENT TO THE TWO WEEK REFRESHER COURSE and then took the state exam. He's now a road patrol deputy and has been for the past year. 2 weeks was the only training he had from the "civilian" side of the house for that position after getting out of the Corps. So yes, it can be done.

[navycop04]

Oh no, my homework is correct. MA/MP, are the same, however the difference is the "title" for your branch of the military. There are no "DOD"Officers either, they are DON (Department of the Navy) Police Officers and the same is in the Army, they are DA Police. Simple fact is, you are not a Sworn Police Officer, you are in the military. There is a huge difference as a Sworn Police Officer to a Military Police Officer/Master at Arms. You are not a Federal Police Officer, as you stated in your other post. That, you should do your homework on. As of right now, they are slowly phasing out MA/MP's to performing Law Enforcement on Military Installations, and allowing the Civilian Police handle everything. Military Police will be uses strictly for War-time efforts/deployments. Yes I know that some bases allow their MP's to attend local police agency classes or even academies, however you are still in the military and have no bearing to call yourself a Sworn Police Officer. When you get out, yes get a job in LE, then you will have that right to call yourself Sworn.

LOL :) man i not going to sit here and start B....ING :mad: over who is right on this thread. it seems like alot of people agree with me on this topic. maybe because we know a whole lot more about the transition from military LE to civilian LE than you do :o .IF you ask me and i bet alot of people will agree it seems like u been left out of the law enforcement loop of both worlds :p BUT JUST SO THAT EVERYONE WHO VIEW THIS KNOW I'M SORRY IF I STATED THAT I WAS A SWORN OFFICER. I'm very proud to say that I'm a MILITARY POLICE OFFICER and very proud to serve my Country . it just that i hate it when people on this forum talk alot of junk and don't know jack about anything.......... NOW enought of the *****$ chewing lets be adults ( it seem like irishlad2nv know alot ABOUT THE MILITARY LE COMMUNITY IN ALL THE BRANCHES so it seems .. BUT NOTHING ABOUT THE OUTSIDE LE WORLD...

OH FYI IF U DIDNT KNOW IM CURRENTLY IN THE PROCESS OF ATTENDING THE 2 WEEK CRASH COURSE WITH FDLE ... AND APPLYING TO A COUPLE OF SQAURED AWAY POLICE DEPARTMENTS IN SOUTH FLORIDA... [U] OH with with my military training :p NOW MARINATE ON THAT AND LET IT SINK IN......

[me_again]

As an Army MP, I went through the two week comparative compliance course in Florida to become an officer back in 1992. In retrospect, I should have gone through the entire academy because MP school and MP experiences did not adequately prepare me for civilian law enforcement. Granted, there are a lot of similarities, but there are a lot of differences too. But at the time, I was glad that I didn't have to attend the entire academy. LOL

As the MPs move further and further away from LE, Florida should get rid of comparative compliance training for MPs.

[rich75]

Just to let you guys know that if you take the course in Brevard County, Fl., it's only 6 days and not 2 weeks. Plus this county has the easiest hiring process than the rest of the counties in Fl.

[ftlaudcop]

good beginner agency...if they hire 10 maybe 1 will stay and get 10 yr's in..
i was their 2 yrs and 7 months...and i had to go....!!!


ft lauderdale was more appealin for a 26 yr old !


www.schackdaddy.com

[rich75]

After 2 yrs I plan on going to S. Fl. which is where I'm originally from.

[grussem]

Agencies don't consider MP's any more than they do any other prior MOS's. you still have to meet the minimum standards of the state, and also the minimum standards of the department you are applying for (which are mor strict than the state standards) So if you wanna go into the military, just join, do something you wanna do cause being an MP won't help you any more than any other veteran.

[rich75]

MP, SF or whatever your title is will help you over other veterans in the state of FL if you are/were military police or military corrections. I'm not sure what other states have an EOT program but your training in the military does carry over and meet the standards the FDLE requires.

[me_again]

I don't know anything about military corrections, but I would think that a civilian corrections agency would hire a military correctional officer in a New York minute!!! :eek:

[NavyZ28]

Just remember, Enlisted guys make the military... Officers are bums with degrees that have no real purpose, If you want to actually do something and learn go enlisted, but if you want to sit behind a desk and have someone wipe your butt for you go officer........... mho

[me_again]

Just remember, Enlisted guys make the military... Officers are bums with degrees that have no real purpose, If you want to actually do something and learn go enlisted, but if you want to sit behind a desk and have someone wipe your butt for you go officer........... mhoCommissioned officers have their place and they are needed, but we do not need as many as we have. During WWII, we had 1 officer for every 42 enlisted men, but today we have 1 officer for ever 7 enlisted men. :rolleyes: It is a fallacy to think that more officers = more efficiency. :rolleyes: IMO we should slash the Officer Corps and place those responsibilities back into the hands of the NCOs. If the Officer Corps is drastically slashed, then the enlisted men could be given a payraise too.

It has been said that we need more commissioned officers due to us having more technology, like flying jets, etc... That's horse chit because warrant officers could do that job. ;)

[MIDeputy]

Agencies don't consider MP's any more than they do any other prior MOS's. you still have to meet the minimum standards of the state, and also the minimum standards of the department you are applying for (which are mor strict than the state standards) So if you wanna go into the military, just join, do something you wanna do cause being an MP won't help you any more than any other veteran.

It actually varies from place to place. Some places hold former Military Police Officer's in high regards, other's don't. Definitely being an MP transitioning into civilian LE is better than transitioning as let's say a cook, or some other mindless grunt job. In some states, you can qualify for a waiver for certain requirements. Here in Michigan for example, you need a minimum of an Associates Degree before you can sponsor yourself through a regional police academy held at one some community colleges. However, if you have at least 1 year of Active Duty MP experience you can obtain a waiver for the Associate Degree requirement. My ex-roommate from the Army lives in Florida and is now a Tampa Police Officer. In FL if you have a minimum of I think three or four years as an MP, you can qualify to take a waiver of training course which is only a few weeks long as opposed to attending a full length academy.
So again MP experience isn't always advantageous in the search for a civilian LE job, but it can help at certain times or certain departments. It will inevitibly vary from place to place, so just research different agencies to see if prior MP experience qualifies you for anything.

[DOAcop38]

Agencies don't consider MP's any more than they do any other prior MOS's. you still have to meet the minimum standards of the state, and also the minimum standards of the department you are applying for (which are mor strict than the state standards) So if you wanna go into the military, just join, do something you wanna do cause being an MP won't help you any more than any other veteran.


However certain training gained in the military can help you promote down the road ( i.e being a Sgt looks better than just a PFC or Cpl,being a k-9 handler can help when you apply for police K-9 handler, or EOD for the bomb squad,etc).In Ca. alot of MPs ,as well as military member of the DoD police go thru CA. POST training, and i had a bud gain his "BASIC" Post while still in the Navy working shore patrol- he used it to get hired onto a Police Dept(Inglewood CA, PD) when he got out two years later.The best thing you can do in the military is work hard,recieve good letters of commendation from your command,grow as a person, and see what ever parts of the world they send you to.That experience alone will help you as a "mature,well rounded" applicant in civilian Policing.you also get military vet "points" toward a higher testing score,which makes you a higher level candidate, and soon to be ending their military career applicants get processed faster in some cases......