Failed to stop at a red light...

[peemmfivekay]

I was in the car with my mom...it's almost a T-intersection and the light was still green, we pull into the middle of the intersection to left turn (it's kind of a big intersection, no way possible to stay behind the white line when preparing to turn)... cars are still coming from directly in front of us, so we wait and wait and wait, and finally the light turns red.

There's no way we could have backed up, as there were cars already lined up at the white line, we couldn't stay still because we'd be in the way of other cars (that had the green light now). We then proceeded to make the left turn, as to get out of the way of the cars now coming at us (towards the left side of our car).

As soon as we left turned, a police car pulls out (making a sudden u-turn) right infront of us, cutting us off, angrily/****ed off pointing for us to pull over so he could give us a ticket for failing to stop at the red light.

I'm pretty sure the police officer did not see that we were way past the white line (when it was still green) because he was like the 3rd or 4th car from the white line (on HIS side of the intersection), plus it was a slight hill so it was kinda hard for him to see where we were exactly.

I believe he pulled us over because he saw that his light turned green, yet we still made the left.

Should we have gotten the ticket for "failed to stop at a red light" ? Remember, we couldn't back up or stay still - we had to move out of the way. It was a big intersection as well.

Also, on the ticket, he did not put that we were turning at the intersection so it sounds as if we just ran the red light, going straight - which is not true. My mom is setting up a court date to appeal the ticket. (she has a clean driving record, her whole lifetime career as a licensed driver - 0 traffic, speeding, parking violations)

[Bodie]

You appeal but all likley hood is you will still loose.
You were in effect by being in the intersection waiting to turn rather then behind the line as is required blocking an intersection.
The same act cause dozens of accidents a month in most areas and the officer was probably watching that intersection due to complaints or a higher the normal accident rate.

[peemmfivekay]

That's true. Ok, say if the officer does not show up in court for the appeal. What happens?

[backinblue]

Good Luck With That.

Your "mom" Committed A Violation Of The Traffic Law. Just Becuase She Was Turning Doesn't Give Her The Right To Block The Intersection. Tell Her To Stop On The White Line Next Time.

[That Guy]

That's true. Ok, say if the officer does not show up in court for the appeal. What happens?


Then it will be dismissed. This erks me because no matter what our excuse is, they will never reschedule a trial.
I have been stuck doing police work and they dismiss the cite while the defendant misses they will reschedule with any pathetic excuse.

TGY

[FCSD2162]

I don't know about Massachusets, but in Georgia, you cannot enter the intersection (must stay behind the line) until you are clear to make a turn. So in essence, yes a "red light was ran"; in Georgia anyways. If I don't show up for court, the case will be dismissed unless I have a viable excuse. However, in a case like that, it's 50/50 if the State Court judge will either find not guilty or impose a fine (guilty)!?

[peemmfivekay]

If the officer does not show up, might the judge still impose a fine?

Say if the person that got the ticket, in her whole lifetime career of being a licensed driver (over 20 some odd years) has never received a traffic violation ticket before (which is true)... does it help anything? will it be taken into consideration?

[Tennsix]

If the officer does not show up, might the judge still impose a fine?

Say if the person that got the ticket, in her whole lifetime career of being a licensed driver (over 20 some odd years) has never received a traffic violation ticket before (which is true)... does it help anything? will it be taken into consideration?
The judge may take whatever course of action (s)he deems practical.

Some jurisdictions have a traffic deferment program; your mother might qualify, if your area has that.

[Centurion44]

I don't know about Massachusets, but in Georgia, you cannot enter the intersection (must stay behind the line) until you are clear to make a turn. So in essence, yes a "red light was ran"; in Georgia anyways. If I don't show up for court, the case will be dismissed unless I have a viable excuse. However, in a case like that, it's 50/50 if the State Court judge will either find not guilty or impose a fine (guilty)!?

In Georgia, I would have charged your mother with obstructing an intersection 40-6-205 rather than Red Light Violation 40-6-20.

However, FCSD is right- if you can not complete the intersection, you're not supposed to enter it. This is just common sense- or "uncommon" sense, because it's not that common anymore.

If the officer does not show up, might the judge still impose a fine?

A person has a constitutional right to face their accuser. If that person is not there, the case will likely be thrown out.
However it's my opinion that your mother violated the law and should be held accountable. "Worming" her way out of her responsibility is setting a bad example for her children. If I commit a traffic violation and get cited for it, I pay the ticket.

[peemmfivekay]

In Georgia, I would have charged your mother with obstructing an intersection 40-6-205 rather than Red Light Violation 40-6-20.

However, FCSD is right- if you can not complete the intersection, you're not supposed to enter it. This is just common sense- or "uncommon" sense, because it's not that common anymore.



A person has a constitutional right to face their accuser. If that person is not there, the case will likely be thrown out.
However it's my opinion that your mother violated the law and should be held accountable. "Worming" her way out of her responsibility is setting a bad example for her children. If I commit a traffic violation and get cited for it, I pay the ticket.

No, I do understand that she committed a traffic violation now. I just wasn't sure. Maybe this is a Boston/Massachusetts thing but everyone I see turning, is always waiting in the middle of the intersection before they can clearly turn.

I will warn others of this and hopefully they will change their ways when it comes to turning at an intersection.

Thanks for clearing it up for me.

[Tennsix]

We have a big problem with that problem in my town. As a result, we work a lot of wrecks because of it. Unfortunately, the most effective deterrent is a traffic ticket. People just don

[peemmfivekay]

[QUOTE=Tennsix]We have a big problem with that problem in my town. As a result, we work a lot of wrecks because of it. Unfortunately, the most effective deterrent is a traffic ticket. People just don

[lazycop]

I cited a lady for this same thing last night. The way I explained it to her is the same way they explain it in court. You must "clear" the intersection "before" the light turns red. Anything else is a violation.

She kept trying to argue with me. I will be happy to see her in court while I earn my 6 hours of time.

[peemmfivekay]

I cited a lady for this same thing last night. The way I explained it to her is the same way they explain it in court. You must "clear" the intersection "before" the light turns red. Anything else is a violation.

She kept trying to argue with me. I will be happy to see her in court while I earn my 6 hours of time.

The officer didn't say anything. He basically asked for license and registration, walked back to his cruiser and minutes later came back over, handed out the ticket, and went back to the cruiser. He didn't explain anything. I mean, I honestly did not know it's a violation. I may be ignorant or whatever but, I didn't know. "Everyone does it" - I'm not using it as an excuse but if he had explained it, I would have felt a little better about it and understood the violation.

Anyway... this is a different question though: Why are people allowed to have a chance to appeal a ticket? How big of a chance do they have since Cops are usually correct when they give out a ticket to someone anyway (which in this case, yes he was 100% correct according to the traffic law)? Is the judge going to take something else into consideration (driving record, type of street/instersection, hills? blind spots, etc) ?

[Tennsix]

The officer didn't say anything. He basically asked for license and registration, walked back to his cruiser and minutes later came back over, handed out the ticket, and went back to the cruiser. He didn't explain anything. I mean, I honestly did not know it's a violation. I may be ignorant or whatever but, I didn't know. "Everyone does it" - I'm not using it as an excuse but if he had explained it, I would have felt a little better about it and understood the violation.

Anyway... this is a different question though: Why are people allowed to have a chance to appeal a ticket? How big of a chance do they have since Cops are usually correct when they give out a ticket to someone anyway (which in this case, yes he was 100% correct according to the traffic law)? Is the judge going to take something else into consideration (driving record, type of street/instersection, hills? blind spots, etc) ?
The appeals process comes after a trial. The court date printed on the ticket is a trial date. At the trial, the defendant and the state are afforded the opportunity to state their case. The judge considers the totality of the circumstances and renders a judgment. A dismissal is not a reflection of the officer

[Bodie]

He gets paid to show up so he will and his agency will notify him of the appeal as you call it so tell mom just to pay the ticket and learn the traffic laws. You came here for advice and are looking for a loophole.

Pay a lawyer $1,000.00 to find that loophole

[gotthblues]

The officer didn't say anything. He basically asked for license and registration, walked back to his cruiser and minutes later came back over, handed out the ticket, and went back to the cruiser. He didn't explain anything. I mean, I honestly did not know it's a violation. I may be ignorant or whatever but, I didn't know. "Everyone does it" - I'm not using it as an excuse but if he had explained it, I would have felt a little better about it and understood the violation.

Anyway... this is a different question though: Why are people allowed to have a chance to appeal a ticket? How big of a chance do they have since Cops are usually correct when they give out a ticket to someone anyway (which in this case, yes he was 100% correct according to the traffic law)? Is the judge going to take something else into consideration (driving record, type of street/instersection, hills? blind spots, etc) ?
it was my experience that if i tried to explain the violation in addition to issueing a citation, the person often took it as me "chewing them out" then they complained, so i rarely said very much unless they ask.

[peemmfivekay]

He gets paid to show up so he will and his agency will notify him of the appeal as you call it so tell mom just to pay the ticket and learn the traffic laws. You came here for advice and are looking for a loophole.

Pay a lawyer $1,000.00 to find that loophole

You are mistaken Bodie. I am not looking for a loophole. I was trying to understand the violation and the whole trial/appeals ordeal and now I have understood that - thanks to other replies in my thread. My mother, my brother, nor I have ever gotten any traffic citations. We have no prior experience with any of this, so I am here looking for answers and information and that will be easily understood.

[peemmfivekay]

[QUOTE=Tennsix]The appeals process comes after a trial. The court date printed on the ticket is a trial date. At the trial, the defendant and the state are afforded the opportunity to state their case. The judge considers the totality of the circumstances and renders a judgment. A dismissal is not a reflection of the officer

[Bodie]

You need to consider the cost of an appeal vs just accepting the fact that according to the officer your mother committed a traffic violation. Court costs alone which you will be told to pay if you loose could top $5,0000.00
if you tie up officers for court and the courts time and services.
It is just not worth it.

[gotthblues]

You need to consider the cost of an appeal vs just accepting the fact that according to the officer your mother committed a traffic violation. Court costs alone which you will be told to pay if you loose could top $5,0000.00
if you tie up officers for court and the courts time and services.
It is just not worth it.
for traffic court, man alive, ya'll have a jacked up traffic court then.

[explorerscout83]

Also consider what if an officer is running code 3 and your mom is sitting there blocking the intersection. Now that officer has to stop and sit there untill she clears the intersection. She commited two violations that I could cite her for Impeading traffic and failure to obey signal.

[gotthblues]

Also consider what if an officer is running code 3 and your mom is sitting there blocking the intersection. Now that officer has to stop and sit there untill she clears the intersection. She commited two violations that I could cite her for Impeading traffic and failure to obey signal.
do you flat out bust intersections when running code

[That Guy]

for traffic court, man alive, ya'll have a jacked up traffic court then.

Its about time cities/states start recouping their loses. I've been to several traffic trials where the defendant reschedules at the last minute and I am not told until I arrive at court. I have made some good money being brought in on my day off for this.
I have also had some drag out months because of the defendant arguing several motions and we had to have a prosecutor take their time to come down and argue them in court.

TGY

[explorerscout83]

do you flat out bust intersections when running code
No I slow down but I DO NOT come to a full stop. I slow down and check to make sure that no traffic is comming. I then go through the intersection. But when some one is sitting in the middle of the intersection and preventing me from going through the intersction I have to sit and not do any thing until that car clears the intersection.

[Tim Dees]

You need to appreciate that the people responding to you here work in jurisdictions all over the country (and beyond), and that traffic court procedures vary widely. In some places the officer who issued the citation will be asked to appear at the same time you do, and in others that first appearance is only to either plead guilty or set a trial date where the officer will appear. It is also not a sure dismissal if the officer fails to appear on the trial date - this varies with the jurisdiction, the judge's discretion, and the reason that the officer didn't appear. There is a myth that traffic violators like to propagate that a ticket will automatically be dismissed if the officer fails to appear for any reason, but this just isn't always the case.

[gotthblues]

Its about time cities/states start recouping their loses. I've been to several traffic trials where the defendant reschedules at the last minute and I am not told until I arrive at court. I have made some good money being brought in on my day off for this.
I have also had some drag out months because of the defendant arguing several motions and we had to have a prosecutor take their time to come down and argue them in court.

TGY
i agree, for district court cases, but for municipal traffic court to have a $5k court cost, thats a bit much, were i was it was only $70 for court cost, then you had the fine for the violation, but not near as much time and effort is put into traffic court, at least from the cities side,

[gotthblues]

No I slow down but I DO NOT come to a full stop. I slow down and check to make sure that no traffic is comming. I then go through the intersection. But when some one is sitting in the middle of the intersection and preventing me from going through the intersction I have to sit and not do any thing until that car clears the intersection.
okay, just checkin, are your streets that small or tight, that two cars cant get through it?

[Airsofter]

about the court having to deal with the costs of it all. And police officers obviously wasting their time.

I have a family company in youngstown ohio. we recently put in a string of video conference units to handle this very issue. Don't get me wrong i am not advertising. If you want my services.. sure, but other wise i can help you do it yourself. The conference units are used for police so they are present in the court rooom as well as inmates so that police do not clock up overtime hauling prisoners back in forth to jail.

One thing to note about the prisoners is that you must give them an option of coming to court otherwise you infringe on their rights.

Now obviously i can see why officers wouldn't want something like this because it reduces their pay. (no overtime)

I can give you more info on this subject perkinscomm.com

[Airsofter]

I am proud howerver that i saved my court system 150k a year(small court system) and for a while they hired more cops and everything was great.

But then some company put in traffic cameras and started handing out computer generated traffic tickets. So, Officers lost their jobs. Goes to show technology can help or hurt and i try to be caring of that.

Airsofter.

[Tim Dees]

But then some company put in traffic cameras and started handing out computer generated traffic tickets. So, Officers lost their jobs. Goes to show technology can help or hurt and i try to be caring of that.Can you cite an example of a place where police officers were laid off because of the installation of an automated traffic citation system? Writing tickets is not usually that much of a priority in police work, and I have trouble believing that it reduced the need for police so much.

[Lucky Seven]

I was in the car with my mom...it's almost a T-intersection and the light was still green, we pull into the middle of the intersection to left turn (it's kind of a big intersection, no way possible to stay behind the white line when preparing to turn)... cars are still coming from directly in front of us, so we wait and wait and wait, and finally the light turns red.

There's no way we could have backed up, as there were cars already lined up at the white line, we couldn't stay still because we'd be in the way of other cars (that had the green light now). We then proceeded to make the left turn, as to get out of the way of the cars now coming at us (towards the left side of our car).

As soon as we left turned, a police car pulls out (making a sudden u-turn) right infront of us, cutting us off, angrily/****ed off pointing for us to pull over so he could give us a ticket for failing to stop at the red light.

I'm pretty sure the police officer did not see that we were way past the white line (when it was still green) because he was like the 3rd or 4th car from the white line (on HIS side of the intersection), plus it was a slight hill so it was kinda hard for him to see where we were exactly.

I believe he pulled us over because he saw that his light turned green, yet we still made the left.

Should we have gotten the ticket for "failed to stop at a red light" ? Remember, we couldn't back up or stay still - we had to move out of the way. It was a big intersection as well.

Also, on the ticket, he did not put that we were turning at the intersection so it sounds as if we just ran the red light, going straight - which is not true. My mom is setting up a court date to appeal the ticket. (she has a clean driving record, her whole lifetime career as a licensed driver - 0 traffic, speeding, parking violations)


I'm sorry but I am not familiar with traffic laws in Boston. However, in Ca. if you are lawfully within the intersection (i.e. light was green prior to passing the limit line) then you can lawfully wait (required to by right of way laws) in the intersection until it is safe to complete the left turn, even though the light has turned red.

As with most laws, there are exceptions. If the intersection has a posted regulatory sign stating to the effect that entering or blocking the intersection is unlawful, then you must wait behind the limit line until it is both lawful to proceed and you can clear the intersection without blocking it. This statute is normally referred to as an anti-grid lock law.

I would make sure that your statutes allow entry into the intersection on the green, waiting within the intersection to make a lawful left turn, and that no anti-gridlock statutes are in place or were violated.

[peemmfivekay]

I just saw a cop do this very exact thing today.

[Tennsix]

I just saw a cop do this very exact thing today.
Citizens Arrest! Citizens Arrest! Citizens Arrest!
-Gomer Pyle

[Airsofter]

Tim,

My town of girard ohio officers hours were cut and new officers were laid off. There was quite a big stink about it. the town is very very very peacefull. It was a combination of not having to transport prisoners or provide extra security for the court house. And then not having to work traffic tickets.

They used to have a shift that took calls/ one to do traffic and another for prisoners shift being 2 guys. Now they jsut take calls.

Airsofter.

[DOGCHOW]

That's true. Ok, say if the officer does not show up in court for the appeal. What happens?


why would the officer not show up for easy overtime????? :D

[Tim Dees]

My town of girard ohio officers hours were cut and new officers were laid off. There was quite a big stink about it. the town is very very very peacefull. It was a combination of not having to transport prisoners or provide extra security for the court house. And then not having to work traffic tickets.I don't that anyone has to "work traffic tickets." As I said, traffic enforcement is usually a secondary priority for patrol officers. The question was to cite an example where officers had been laid off due to the introduction of an automated traffic enforcement system, such as a red light camera. Your example stemmed from a re-allocation of duties in other areas, such as prisoner transport and court security.

[Mr. Security]

Perhaps my Connecticut State Drivers Manual is out-of-date, but it explains that a red light means that you cannot enter the intersection. However, it directs a driver making a left turn to enter the intersection when the light turns green and make the turn when it is safe to do so. Depending on oncoming traffic you may not be able to make the turn until the light turns red. Since you are already in the intersection when the light turned red, you did not ENTER it after the light turned red. The law may vary from state to state.

[Kyia]

I stop people for this very thing. She should have stopped at the white line before entering the intersection and waited until it was clear before attempting to turn. She may not wait in the middle of the intersection to turn. Stop at the white line.

[Dudley DoRight]

In some countries...eg Britain and New Zealand they have the intersections marked out like a giant box. You may NOT enter the box unless it is clear and you can exit it before the light changes. If you get caught in the box and the light changes, you are guilty. It's up to you to NOT enter unless you can clear the box. Solves a lot of problems with situations like your mother created.

[t150vsuptpr]

I was in the car with my mom...it's almost a T-intersection and the light was still green, we pull into the middle of the intersection to left turn (it's kind of a big intersection, no way possible to stay behind the white line when preparing to turn)... cars are still coming from directly in front of us, so we wait and wait and wait, and finally the light turns red.

There's no way we could have backed up, as there were cars already lined up at the white line, we couldn't stay still because we'd be in the way of other cars (that had the green light now). We then proceeded to make the left turn, as to get out of the way of the cars now coming at us (towards the left side of our car).

As soon as we left turned, a police car pulls out (making a sudden u-turn) right infront of us, cutting us off, angrily/****ed off pointing for us to pull over so he could give us a ticket for failing to stop at the red light.

I'm pretty sure the police officer did not see that we were way past the white line (when it was still green) because he was like the 3rd or 4th car from the white line (on HIS side of the intersection), plus it was a slight hill so it was kinda hard for him to see where we were exactly.

I believe he pulled us over because he saw that his light turned green, yet we still made the left.

Should we have gotten the ticket for "failed to stop at a red light" ? Remember, we couldn't back up or stay still - we had to move out of the way. It was a big intersection as well.

Also, on the ticket, he did not put that we were turning at the intersection so it sounds as if we just ran the red light, going straight - which is not true. My mom is setting up a court date to appeal the ticket. (she has a clean driving record, her whole lifetime career as a licensed driver - 0 traffic, speeding, parking violations)

It was Mass., a state long ago over run by them crazy liberals. Leave before you too become "one of the lost".

I don't know the law up there but it is generally the same every where else. If you enter an intersection under a green light, and while waiting to make a turn because of oncoming traffic that you have to yield to, when your light turns red and the other traffic gets a green light, they have a duty to make sure the intersection is clear before proceeding, and you have the duty to then clear the intersection so they can do so. Obviously an officer not well schooled in traffic enforcement crossed your mothers tracks that day.