IL Traffic Citation - 38 in a 35 MPH Zone

[JLR80]

I'm new to the forums, but I have a question I would like to post to those of you in the law enforcement community. :confused:

Should there be a grace area for speeding (say 1-5 MPH over the speed limit)? Do you normally allow some leeway for speed offenses?

Background: I was cited on Monday (08/15) for speeding. FYI:
I.V.C. 625 ILCS5/: 11-601(b) SPEEDING "38" MPH IN A "35" MPH ZONE

I was coming into a rural IL community and was stopped about 1/2 mile into the town by an IL State Police trooper. The trooper asked my what my hurry was and then asked me if I knew how fast I was going. Jokingly, I told him that I was probably doing 39 or 40 (I didn't expect a few MPH over the limit to be a citation), and then he tells me I was clocked at 38 MPH in a 35 MPH zone. He proceeded to inform me that this would be a citation today. Under the "Incident Notations," he marked "admitted doing 40." Method was marked "Radar" for speed enforcement on the citation.

When he brought the citation back, I asked him if the ticket wasn't a bit absurd and he told me that the traffic death toll was way up in the area and pressure was being put on the district commander to get people to slow down in that area. He then told me that I could appear in court if I wish to contest the ticket, etc.

I'm not disputing the fact that I was speeding, but isn't this amount (3 MPH over!!) a bit ridiculous? Do you think it is remotely possible to still contest the ticket on the grounds that there are differences between speedometer and radar or go to court, pay the fine ($75 plus court costs) and ask for the supervision of the court (aka diversion)?

I am 24 years old and this is my first moving violation in 9 years of being a licensed driver. I have a friend who is a police officer and he informed me that the judge may drop the ticket for less than 5 MPH over the limit (no one in their department even gets out of the car for less than 6 MPH over), but since I did admit guilt that could change the outcome. I've had many, many different opinions on the issue by everone from two police officers to just Joe citizens. Any suggestions? I figured I would get some input from the "horses mouth" so to speak.

Peace,

JLR80

Note: I did not disrespect this officer in any way, nor was I impolite or uncooperative as one might assume given the nature of the ticket. I do some part-time work with a communications company that performs two-way radio, siren, and equipment installs for numerous police agencies. I've worked with many police officers through this business and you all have my utmost respect and gratitude! :D

[PTI]

Getting written for 3 over seems a little chicken$hit to me. Its possible for a speedometer to 3 MPH off. We get brand new patrol cars that are +/-3 all the time. If its more than 3 MPH off we send them to the shop for new speedometers. As a radar instructor, I can tell you its doubtfull the radar was off 3 MPH. The calibration report we receive from Michigan State University with our radar units say +/- 1 MPH.

Could be that the powers to be in the area are pressuring the troopers to write more tickets. I have known guys that will write tickets for minor violations when the bosses start threatening them with negative comments on their evals. This is done with the hope that it will increase citizen complaints about the enforcement and thus increase the workload of the supervisors in the office. Its kinda like, they play their games and we play ours. Maybe you fell victim to this unfortunate situation.

[Bodie]

38 in a 35 ?????????????????? Is this joke ???
I have been a Certfied Radar Instructor since the late 70's.
Any judge here would pitch that at once.

[Evnings]

I don't start writing until at least 10 over. Anything less is just kind of chicken to me.

I would ask about defensive driving. Generally the ticket doesn't count against your driving record and you usually get a break on your car insurance.

[mobrien316]

The only times I have heard of anyone getting a ticket for something like that is when they gave the officer who pulled them over a monstrous ration of ****.

What did you say to the officer?

[JLR80]

The only times I have heard of anyone getting a ticket for something like that is when they gave the officer who pulled them over a monstrous ration of ****.

What did you say to the officer?

I know better than to do something like this...I'm not that dumb (no offense). I was shocked when he told me it would be a citation instead of a warning, the only thing I said that could have been even remotely questioning his authority was asking him if the citation (being 3 MPH over) was "absurd" (exact word used). He was extreemly professional, but informed me that the traffic death toll in that county was up and that the district post commander was putting pressure on the officers to get folks to slow down in the area. I think he may of felt somewhat embarassed about writing the ticket, but he made it sound as if he had no choice in the matter. I dunno, I'm torn between challenging the ticket or just forking out the casholla and asking for a diversion. I was speeding, I admitted to speeding and he noted that on the citation - I'm not going to deny that. One of the two police officers that I know personally and whom I spoke with about this ticket has informed me that the troopers are trained to ask leading questions like this to guarantee a conviction, so it's never a wise idea to admit any gault.

I figure I'm screwed either way, and I can't afford to miss time off of work to run to court appearances (we're alloted two personal days per school year). :mad:

[WTPD3534]

I'm not disputing the fact that I was speeding, but isn't this amount (3 MPH over!!) a bit ridiculous?

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. That's definately not a bit ridiculous.....it's absolutely ludicrous!!

I know I know....it's different out west where people actually do get pulled over for 6+ over the limit, but come on already. As I've stated numerous times unless I'm just looking to investigate a car for something I won't be stopping a speeder until they're going 15+ over the limit. I wouldn't even be able to keep a straight face telling someone I pulled them over for 3mph over the limit. What a joke. :rolleyes:

[MPD-A9]

On a certian strech of road, the mayor told us to start writing at 5 over. The entire dept allows 15+. I think we went down to 13+. You could have easily argued a spedomoter diference, but you stated you were doing 40. Try a diversion, and in the future avoid that road, I would hate for you to get ticket for 1 over

[e-man]

Not to give any tips for speeders in northern Pittsburgh area but we dont stop until 20 OVER. Unless circumstances dictate otherwise. PA law specifically says a person cant be convicted of less than 10 over in a 25 or higher and 6 over in a 25 or lower zone, that usually a school zone.
I usually stop for 20 over. We in PA dont have RADAR 'ceot the State, the guvner might sing someting into law allowing local police to use radar but the STOPWATCH works well for ME. :cool:

[Evnings]

I have noticed something on Texas DL returns that speeding now shows if the violation was for 10 % above or below the limit. I think this is because the troopers have been known to write for less than 10 over.

I have been known to stop folks for going 7 or 8 over in a school zone, but I won't write them. The city attorney won't even take a case unless its for at least 10 over.

[gotthblues]

I have noticed something on Texas DL returns that speeding now shows if the violation was for 10 % above or below the limit. I think this is because the troopers have been known to write for less than 10 over.

I have been known to stop folks for going 7 or 8 over in a school zone, but I won't write them. The city attorney won't even take a case unless its for at least 10 over.
our city judge would through them out if they were not for 10 or above, state wont assess pts for under 10, so he wouldnt try them.
but as far as troopers doing it, well, think back to the academy, when you got to speeds around normal hwy driving, 5 mph made a difference in you reaction and ability to control the car. most trps start writting at 6 or 7 over, and when you are in a 55, 65 or 70 zone, 5 mph makes a difference.

[BikeCop501]

I pull them for 15 write after 20, but thats if they are controling the speed, if its radical or dangerous then they would be stopped for 5 for that matter, but prolly a warning

[SeVere]

PIMPY. That's all I have to say.

[PhilipCal]

Don't guess it really matters if I would have stopped you for 3MPH over posted, let alone, written you,( I wouldn't have), it seems my colleague in Illinois did. That's the reality you have to deal with. You have two choices: Pay the citation, or fight it.

[mach4]

I have a friend that is an Ill State Trooper. He has warned me when I visit his state that it is an exact speed state, which means they can write you for anything over the posted limit. Most troopers don't, but you stated that the trooper that stopped you said the traffic death toll was up so that might be a reason why you were not let off. Here unless it was a school zone we don't write you unless it's 10 over or you have attitude.

[The_Terminator]

I find writing someone for 38 in a 35 zone ridiculous...you could write 99% of the public for that. Their are far more bigger battles to fight in law enforcement in my view.

I wouldn't have given your vehicle a second glance.

[Washingtonian]

There are a few more possibilities i'll throw out there...

Are you sure he STOPPED you for going three over? On the rare instances I write speeding tickets, i'll often reduce the speed on the ticket to give them a "discount" as long as they're not dicks. So on the surface it would look pretty weak that i'm writing them for 5 over, but in reality they were going much faster. I know you said he told you he stopped you for 38, i'm just making sure.

Or maybe you were hauling *** and he saw you, but for whatever reason the radar didn't pick you up until you were slowed down to 38. So he decided to say screw it and just write you for what the radar said to be safe. It would still be kind of lame IMO, but whatever...

Or, maybe he's writing everybody going the slightest bit over the limit to make a statement to his superiors, who will probably take some heat from the public when they start calling in. Maybe they pressured him to write more tickets, so he's taking it to the extreme, and you're an unfortunate pawn in his strategy. Just an idea...

[JLR80]

There are a few more possibilities i'll throw out there...

Are you sure he STOPPED you for going three over? On the rare instances I write speeding tickets, i'll often reduce the speed on the ticket to give them a "discount" as long as they're not dicks. So on the surface it would look pretty weak that i'm writing them for 5 over, but in reality they were going much faster. I know you said he told you he stopped you for 38, i'm just making sure.

Or maybe you were hauling *** and he saw you, but for whatever reason the radar didn't pick you up until you were slowed down to 38. So he decided to say screw it and just write you for what the radar said to be safe. It would still be kind of lame IMO, but whatever...

Or, maybe he's writing everybody going the slightest bit over the limit to make a statement to his superiors, who will probably take some heat from the public when they start calling in. Maybe they pressured him to write more tickets, so he's taking it to the extreme, and you're an unfortunate pawn in his strategy. Just an idea...

Normally I do about 4-5 over on the open highway (Speed Limit is 55 two-lane and 65 four-lane in IL) and I make it a point to keep my speed in compliance whenever I enter any urban area, although I'll occasionaly find myself not paying close attention and doing about a FEW miles over the limit in an urban area. In a school or construction zone I make damn sure I'm at least 5 MPH below the given speed limit for safety reasons (I personally knew a construction worker who had a wife and 3 kids that was killed by an erratic, drunk driver)! I had my cruise set at 59 MPH on the open highway until I neared this small community, but I started slowing down when I saw the "Speed Zone Ahead" sign. When the speed limit zone decreased to 35 I was not doing more than 40 MPH, and had slowed down to below 35 MPH when he got behind me and hit the cherries. Scenario #3 is the only possible option, and I have no reason to doubt the word of the trooper.

Thanks for all of the intelligent, sound advice I have received on the board thus far :D . I think it's in my best interest to pay the ticket and ask for the supervision of the court (diversion), since I already admitted guilt and it sounds as if this was one of those "zero tolerance" speed enforcement iniatiatives. I doubt there is any chance of getting this dropped, although I am convinced this was a bit on the absurd side as it is my very first moving violation in 9 years of driving.

[BufordTJustice]

38 in a 35 ?????????????????? Is this joke ???
I have been a Certfied Radar Instructor since the late 70's.
Any judge here would pitch that at once.

WOW...in MA if an officer wrote someone for 3mph over, the judge would not only pitch out the ticket, the officer would not be far behind. :eek:

10-15 gets me interested.
15+ usually requires looking into.

[trooperden]

I have heard of these stories before but have yet to ever see the actual citation. Post on here a copy of that citation. If this actually took place there is something terribly wrong. Let's get the whole story :cool:

[mosetti]

When I lived in Holland I recieved a ticket for going 1 kilometer over the speed limit (51 kph in a 50 kph zone). It was from a speed camera and I recieved it in the mail 6 months after the offense. I am not even sure if I was the one driving that day, but since the car was registered in my name I had to pay the fine.

[Freakapino]

I won't even consider that a pimp stop at all. To me, it sounds like someone either got up at the wrong side of the bed or someone who is meeting a quota. 3 miles over is absolutely ludicrous - I won't even stop anyone unless it's 10 MPH and above. Unless you're driving like an idiot or poses any danger, I don't care if you're driving the speed limit or below, I'll nail you!

But, in your case, either pay the $75 or fight it in court. Depending on the judge, he might throw it out. Your call, Bro.

In my Dept, they'll look at you like you're mental or something, and they'll laugh at you! LOUD! We care more about quality stop than quantity stop - make a stop that is a good stop or make a sh#tbag's life miserable, i.e. pimp stop a known sh*tbag's car, IVC violations (preferably a ****bag, and not a soccer Mom!).

[haus409]

I won't even consider that a pimp stop at all. To me, it sounds like someone either got up at the wrong side of the bed or someone who is meeting a quota. 3 miles over is absolutely ludicrous - I won't even stop anyone unless it's 10 MPH and above. Unless you're driving like an idiot or poses any danger, I don't care if you're driving the speed limit or below, I'll nail you!

But, in your case, either pay the $75 or fight it in court. Depending on the judge, he might throw it out. Your call, Bro.

In my Dept, they'll look at you like you're mental or something, and they'll laugh at you! LOUD! We care more about quality stop than quantity stop - make a stop that is a good stop or make a sh#tbag's life miserable, i.e. pimp stop a known sh*tbag's car, IVC violations (preferably a ****bag, and not a soccer Mom!).

You shouldn't be stopping anyone for doing 30 miles per hour over the speed limit in your networking job...hello prison!

BTW, to help you sound more like a real cop, don't mention the word "Quota" unless you are explaining to civis that there are no quotas in Police work...

[TPD Cadet]

You shouldn't be stopping anyone for doing 30 miles per hour over the speed limit in your networking job...hello prison!

BTW, to help you sound more like a real cop, don't mention the word "Quota" unless you are explaining to civis that there are no quotas in Police work...

Nice catch haus, I wanna hear this explanation! :D

[gotthblues]

You shouldn't be stopping anyone for doing 30 miles per hour over the speed limit in your networking job...hello prison!

BTW, to help you sound more like a real cop, don't mention the word "Quota" unless you are explaining to civis that there are no quotas in Police work...
ahahahah, busted like a red headed mouthy step child with a broken jaw,,
good call.

[Crex4242]

I'm new to the forums, but I have a question I would like to post to those of you in the law enforcement community. :confused:

Should there be a grace area for speeding (say 1-5 MPH over the speed limit)? Do you normally allow some leeway for speed offenses?

Background: I was cited on Monday (08/15) for speeding. FYI:
I.V.C. 625 ILCS5/: 11-601(b) SPEEDING "38" MPH IN A "35" MPH ZONE

I was coming into a rural IL community and was stopped about 1/2 mile into the town by an IL State Police trooper. The trooper asked my what my hurry was and then asked me if I knew how fast I was going. Jokingly, I told him that I was probably doing 39 or 40 (I didn't expect a few MPH over the limit to be a citation), and then he tells me I was clocked at 38 MPH in a 35 MPH zone. He proceeded to inform me that this would be a citation today. Under the "Incident Notations," he marked "admitted doing 40." Method was marked "Radar" for speed enforcement on the citation.

When he brought the citation back, I asked him if the ticket wasn't a bit absurd and he told me that the traffic death toll was way up in the area and pressure was being put on the district commander to get people to slow down in that area. He then told me that I could appear in court if I wish to contest the ticket, etc.

I'm not disputing the fact that I was speeding, but isn't this amount (3 MPH over!!) a bit ridiculous? Do you think it is remotely possible to still contest the ticket on the grounds that there are differences between speedometer and radar or go to court, pay the fine ($75 plus court costs) and ask for the supervision of the court (aka diversion)?

I am 24 years old and this is my first moving violation in 9 years of being a licensed driver. I have a friend who is a police officer and he informed me that the judge may drop the ticket for less than 5 MPH over the limit (no one in their department even gets out of the car for less than 6 MPH over), but since I did admit guilt that could change the outcome. I've had many, many different opinions on the issue by everone from two police officers to just Joe citizens. Any suggestions? I figured I would get some input from the "horses mouth" so to speak.

Peace,

JLR80

Note: I did not disrespect this officer in any way, nor was I impolite or uncooperative as one might assume given the nature of the ticket. I do some part-time work with a communications company that performs two-way radio, siren, and equipment installs for numerous police agencies. I've worked with many police officers through this business and you all have my utmost respect and gratitude! :D

I give 10 mph over the limit then wheni pull you, your getting a ticket

[Crex4242]

You shouldn't be stopping anyone for doing 30 miles per hour over the speed limit in your networking job...hello prison!

BTW, to help you sound more like a real cop, don't mention the word "Quota" unless you are explaining to civis that there are no quotas in Police work...



Nice try you poser, and yes i want you to add cheese to that damn burger and hold the onions please. Some advice, officers dont use those terms. Why do people get on here and let everyone think that they are police officers? Whats the story with you poser and nice call on exposing this fake

[bigcop97]

THE SPEED LIMIT IS THE SPEED LIMIT AND DONT BREAK IT.... I WOULD HAVE DOUBLED THE FINE WHEN YOU QUESTIONED ME!

Just kidding...

38-35? I have never written a ticket for a speed less than 10 over. And those were on slick / snowy roads...or school zones.

I dont really have any good advice for you. I can tell you though those types of tickets are not written by any officers I know. I would be in trouble everytime I went somewhere...

[gotthblues]

THE SPEED LIMIT IS THE SPEED LIMIT AND DONT BREAK IT.... I WOULD HAVE DOUBLED THE FINE WHEN YOU QUESTIONED ME!

Just kidding...

38-35? I have never written a ticket for a speed less than 10 over. And those were on slick / snowy roads...or school zones.

I dont really have any good advice for you. I can tell you though those types of tickets are not written by any officers I know. I would be in trouble everytime I went somewhere...
no kidding, so much for a vote by the people during arbitration.

[tpcop007]

in broward county fl you can be pulled over for anything speed violation from 1mph + plus...............but you cannot get a ticket until you reacg 6mph + over

[gotthblues]

in broward county fl you can be pulled over for anything speed violation from 1mph + plus...............but you cannot get a ticket until you reacg 6mph + over
yea, but come on, in broward county you can vote for the president like, what 8 times in one day,, :D *sorry i couldnt resist* go ahead, smack me around.

[tpcop007]

yea, but come on, in broward county you can vote for the president like, what 8 times in one day,, :D *sorry i couldnt resist* go ahead, smack me around.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLO :p

[Freakapino]

You shouldn't be stopping anyone for doing 30 miles per hour over the speed limit in your networking job...hello prison!

BTW, to help you sound more like a real cop, don't mention the word "Quota" unless you are explaining to civis that there are no quotas in Police work...


Haus409 and everyone, My bust, I forgot to update my profile's info :eek: , I'm not a network consultant anymore (thank God), I'm a police officer now. LOL!

My deepest apologies, a dumb rookie mistake.

[gotthblues]

Haus409 and everyone, My bust, I forgot to update my profile's info :eek: , I'm not a network consultant anymore (thank God), I'm a police officer now. LOL!

My deepest apologies, a dumb rookie mistake.
uuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, huhh, since this is a law enforcement site, that kinda seems like a big oversite to make. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Photogrrlz]

Hmm I would go to court and argue that ticket......

I never stopped anyone unless they are going at least 10mph over the speed limit and I don't stop that usually without some other violation. Unless it is night time.

[JHoek]

by department policy we are not even allowed to ticket someone unless they are doing 10+. my way of doing things: 14+ you are fine....15+ you are mine.

[gotthblues]

by department policy we are not even allowed to ticket someone unless they are doing 10+. my way of doing things: 14+ you are fine....15+ you are mine.
i am by no means saying that you should write for small speed infractions, but a department policy that dictates what statutes you can and cant enforce, thats sounds like a can of worms just waiting to be opened.

[JHoek]

i am by no means saying that you should write for small speed infractions, but a department policy that dictates what statutes you can and cant enforce, thats sounds like a can of worms just waiting to be opened.
maybe I shouldn't have worded it as I did. I believe the policy "strongly suggests enforcement action other than a citation"

[Badgerland]

Or, maybe he's writing everybody going the slightest bit over the limit to make a statement to his superiors, who will probably take some heat from the public when they start calling in. Maybe they pressured him to write more tickets, so he's taking it to the extreme, and you're an unfortunate pawn in his strategy. Just an idea...

This is the theory I am going with. We have a bunch of grumpy officers on my department, and I could see this.

If not, any officer who writes a citation for speed for 10 MPH or under outside of a school zone or where they are required to (like PC for an OWI stop) deserves a kick in the nut$. To the original poster, please post what Illinois town you were stopped in. A scan of the cite would be nice too.

[Washingtonian]

You shouldn't be stopping anyone for doing 30 miles per hour over the speed limit in your networking job...hello prison!

BTW, to help you sound more like a real cop, don't mention the word "Quota" unless you are explaining to civis that there are no quotas in Police work...

Yeah, there are no 'quotas', they're called 'professional standards' or 'performance expectations' now...

[Badgerland]

We don't have quotas... We have "performance goals."

[Cruiser]

38 in a 35 is just stupid. Even the manufacturers only state that speedometers are within 5 MPH of the true speed. This is why the calibrated speedometers cost so much more. If anyone in my department wrote a ticket like that it better be to one of the big drug dealers or gang members! :D The officer was an ***** and I would make it hard for him if I could and plead my caase to the judge citing my perfect record. You might even be able to get someone to check and certify your sppedo and if it is off by reading less than your actual spped that would be to your credit as well. 3MPH is just stupid.

[JLFINFAN]

I don't start writing until at least 10 over. Anything less is just kind of chicken to me.

I won't pull someone over until they hit 10+. And unless they act like a jerk, I usually don't hardcopy them until they get to 15 over or so.

HOWEVER, I have cited someone for doing 6 mph over.....along with DUS, DUI, and no insurance verification. (Required in my state.)

[rpd1794]

This is REAL chickens#@t.....I have, however, been in court with a VSP Trooper who wrote someone for five over because they passed him on the interstate. The judge was not pleased with this trooper, and dismissed the cite.

The only problem I see with trying to contest this is your admitting to the five over. Depending on the judge, he might convict you based on your statement alone in deference to the Trooper.

I work traffic and have for years....the first 14 over is your warning, 15 and up you're going in the book. If I even attempted to stop people for this, (3 mph over) I'd never get anything else done, and I'd miss the ones doing 20 plus, which are the ones I'm really after.

[alkalinerephlux]

Illinois State Police are notorious for giving Traffic citations. They are dickheads!!!! It should be Illinois revenue builders......3 miles over the limit are you kidding me??

I don't agree with the whole citation dealy.....i guess it is to raise money, but unless someone is being obviously wreckless and dangerous then I don't see the need to. Leave people alone!!! let them be!! Aren't they hassled enough in this place, they don't need another tax!!

If they need to raise money then tell the Freakin' Federal Government and State Governments to stop wasting money with bureaucracies (sp?) Hey everyone..!! 1/3, THAT'S RIGHT 1/3 of government spending is wasted. How do you like that? That means if you make 70,000 dollars a year instead of getting taxed about 30% you would get taxed 20% and have an extra $7k a year!!

[Boarderman15]

I have a similar incident with a minnesota state trooper, I was dropping off one of my friends at there house and they live by a busy road. after i dropped her off as i was leaving i noticed headlights going in the direction i had to turn, so i waited until they passed and as i passed i realized that it was a cop. so i turned and followed behind him making sure not to jump the speed limit. then we get to a stop light and we both turn the same way and i am still behind him. then a little was up we go through another stop light and after he gets through the intersection his break lights come on and he pulls off the road, i slow down and pass him (still not going over the speed limit). he never fully stopped just slowed down and then pulls behind me. so then i am like really trying to to go over the speed limit. so i set my cruise at 55 (the speed limit) and there are a couple of hills so it disengages and i end up slowing down a little to like 52. so then i was like i am going to turn and see if he follows. i turned and he did follow and then his lights go on. then the whole standard licecne and proof of insurance. he comes back with my license, and askes why i was out in Rockford, i said i was droping of a friend and that i turned because if he was going to pull me over than i wanted him to do it before i did end up speeding. then tells me that i was going 52 and if there were and more cars out he would give me ticket for impeding traffic(keep in mind it is 10:15 on a wednsday night so there were no other cars) and then tells me he will be right back and before he does looks at the vin # and checks both of my plates. when he comes back he hand me a fix-it-ticket and tell me that i need to get my windshield fixed cause it was cracked, and i told him that it was getting fixed the next day. and then told me that i should watch where i buy a car and that a small dealerships are unreliable. I bought that car from dunlo motors, not a small dealership. the whole thing take like an hour. he was looking for a reason to pull me over and even pull of the road and pulled behind me. i don't think i should have been pulled over at all

[Mr. Security]

Even cruise control can vary +/- 3 mph (probably won't engage at that speed). I don't know to many drivers who can maintain their speed better than cruise control. Fight it -- otherwise, expect points and higher insurance premiums. :mad:

[Serpico]

Illinois State Police are notorious for giving Traffic citations. They are dickheads!!!! It should be Illinois revenue builders......3 miles over the limit are you kidding me??

I don't agree with the whole citation dealy.....i guess it is to raise money, but unless someone is being obviously wreckless and dangerous then I don't see the need to. Leave people alone!!! let them be!! Aren't they hassled enough in this place, they don't need another tax!!

If they need to raise money then tell the Freakin' Federal Government and State Governments to stop wasting money with bureaucracies (sp?) Hey everyone..!! 1/3, THAT'S RIGHT 1/3 of government spending is wasted. How do you like that? That means if you make 70,000 dollars a year instead of getting taxed about 30% you would get taxed 20% and have an extra $7k a year!!


They gotta pay for Blago's helicopter ride from Chicago to Springfield everyday somehow ;)

[ctt]

Have you contacted a lawyer that does traffic work in the area where you received the ticket? He would probably have a better idea of the climate the officer mentioned. You may have gotten the ticket the day after a kid was hit by someone speeding on that same street... if things have settled down since then, it might be easier than you think to get out of the ticket.