Tricky Traffic Stop

[ufresdave]

My sarge and I were up top on I-75 last night running some traffic and I got one a 93/75. Pull it over and the driver speaks little english and is about 19 yoa. He has an Int'l DL, the plates come back no record found, as does the VIN, and the passengers no speak the english either. I get onto the driver a little more about no DL (from my understanding, you have to have your country's issuing DL in possession as well as Intl DL) and then he suddenly no speak the english either. We get consent to search (in a sense) and find 10,000 in cash. Well no can claim it, bc no one speaka the english, as I said earlier. Then, we get a spanish speaking officer on the phone, and we determine that the female passenger claims the money, and was attempting to try to buy a car in Ocala (Plates and occupants are from Ga). Also, driver said he borrowed car from friend, but does not know his name. I ended up writing two cites and lettin them go (after thourough search yielded nothing, no warrant hits, and no K-9 available). Stop lasted 45 mins. I feel like they left drivin down the highway laughin at me and my sarge. Something didnt feel right, but what else could I have done?

[sflcop]

Well, it is easy to Monday morning quarterback things, but you did what you felt was right at the time, and that is important. International DL's are useless w/o the DL from the original country. With the tag coming back unassigned, and the same with the VIN, and the driver having no D/L I would have taken him and towed the car. That's just the "traffic officer" in me though. As far as the cash, a bit abnormal, but nothing you can really do there.

[kiddiecop]

Could have taken them in for an AFIS check and detained them a little longer for investigation purposes. Sounds like it might have been a drug run with the vehicle not coming back. Not much else you could of done except keep the money as a tip for your hard work, since they no speaky the english. :D

[mickmack111]

I am pretty sure that it is illegal to carry $10,000 or more on your person without an IRS statement form. I know I made a stop last year where we confiscated $30,000, and a fed told me that over the phone. We asset forfeitured it (he was running drugs to Mexico), and it made my Chief's week!!
You might have been able to hold them on the money, then do some digging with the IRS or feds. Good question, though

[AtlCop]

I am pretty sure that it is illegal to carry $10,000 or more on your person without an IRS statement form. I know I made a stop last year where we confiscated $30,000, and a fed told me that over the phone. We asset forfeitured it (he was running drugs to Mexico), and it made my Chief's week!!
You might have been able to hold them on the money, then do some digging with the IRS or feds. Good question, though

You are correct. You are supposed to be a licensed courier to carry that large of an amount of cash. If a private person does it, they should have the documentation for the cash.

If they don't have documentation, sieze it and make them prove it is legal in court.

[Hutch]

I would have been really iffy about the Cash... Either they just sold or where making a buy soon... Since you where not able to identify either the driver or passanger... I am assuming they had no passport or ID other then thier fake Int. DL, Hook em and deport em. Impound the car, since I am sure they wouldn't come to get it anyway. Then when some sucker buys it from police auction the thousands of dollars of meth and weed that are hidden in the tires and frame are a bonus gift when discovered...

In the heat of the moment, I probly would have done the same thing, but since I can sit here and think about it, ya can always come up with things ya "would have done"...

my .02

[AtlCop]

Got a reference for that law? I would like to read it. Not that I will ever have $10k in cash. :D

I'll see if I can find it. I learned that in Criminal Patrol (Drug Interdiction) training. 10k is the cutoff.

[duckfan]

Absent other suspicious circumstances, there is no problem with carrying large amounts of cash inside the country. The problem arises when you cross the border or make a cash purchase of $10,000 or more(That requires a CTR). In any case, it's a Federal problem, not yours.(That doesn't mean you can't give them a heads up)
You did what your supervisor told you to do and you went home last night. You're covered. I wouldn't sweat it.
Laws and procedures vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction so it's difficult to fully assess the situation and yours may be different but here's what I would have done;
1)NCIC only lists vins for stolen cars but you should be able to check with the issuing state. If it wasn't on file with GA, I would smell a rat. At most, it only takes a phone call to check. I would have gone over that car with a fine tooth comb to make sure all the vins(dash, hidden, door, hood and trunk stickers etc.) were present, were the same and not were altered in any way. It's possible that there's a glitch at GA DMV but I wouldn't automatically assume that. If they screwed up, it's shame on them, not you. The driver doesn't know the owner's name? Whoops, another red flag.
2)You have an undocumented operator driving an undocumented car at 93 in a 75. I would smell a rat. His International License is a worthless piece of paper. You are under no obligation to accept it as given.
3)You have that undocumented driver carrying a large amount of cash. I would smell a rat.
Those three things would be more than enough for me to warrant a trip to the station house for further investigation. All of the occupants would have been separated and interviewed individually to confirm their story. No speaka English? No speaka to each other either. That driver and that car would not leave until I was satisfied that everything was legit. (or until a boss told me to cut him loose)

[AtlCop]

Absent other suspicious circumstances, there is no problem with carrying large amounts of cash inside the country. The problem arises when you cross the border or make a cash purchase of $10,000 or more(That requires a CTR). In any case, it's a Federal problem, not yours.(That doesn't mean you can't give them a heads up)
You did what your supervisor told you to do and you went home last night. You're covered. I wouldn't sweat it.
Laws and procedures vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction so it's difficult to fully assess the situation and yours may be different but here's what I would have done;
1)NCIC only lists vins for stolen cars but you should be able to check with the issuing state. If it wasn't on file with GA, I would smell a rat. At most, it only takes a phone call to check. I would have gone over that car with a fine tooth comb to make sure all the vins(dash, hidden, door, hood and trunk stickers etc.) were present, were the same and not were altered in any way. It's possible that there's a glitch at GA DMV but I wouldn't automatically assume that. If they screwed up, it's shame on them, not you. The driver doesn't know the owner's name? Whoops, another red flag.
2)You have an undocumented operator driving an undocumented car at 93 in a 75. I would smell a rat. His International License is a worthless piece of paper. You are under no obligation to accept it as given.
3)You have that undocumented driver carrying a large amount of cash. I would smell a rat.
Those three things would be more than enough for me to warrant a trip to the station house for further investigation. All of the occupants would have been separated and interviewed individually to confirm their story. No speaka English? No speaka to each other either. That driver and that car would not leave until I was satisfied that everything was legit. (or until a boss told me to cut him loose)

I must disagree. There *is* a problem with undocumented large amounts of cash over 10k dollars. If they can not document it, you *can* seize it. If you don't believe me, call the DEA.

As far as being absent any other suspicions:

1. Occupants with no verifiable ID.

2. A vehicle which does not return on NCIC.

3. The driver does not know the vehicle owner's name yet the owner let him borrow it.

4. They are out of state to buy a car.

5. They have no documentation to support the possession of such a large amount of currency.


I don't know how you think there wasn't any suspicion there.

[pkagel]

IRS Form 8300 is the req' document when making cash transactions >10k.

[webjeep]

Unable to confirm ID under suspicious circumstances - drug corridor, carrying large amount of cash, undocumented vehicle = detain and print the subjects, fax prints to FBI for confirmation. All you need is reasonable suspicion here that crime may be afoot.

Call a wrecker for the vehicle and conduct inventory search per department SOP since you can't very well leave a vheicle that you cannot eliminate as a potentially stolen vehicle sitting on the side of the interestate.

While waiting for the prints segregate the occupants and have the spanish speaking officer get stories. Then put em together in a room that you can observe remotely and watch and listen.

This, of course, having time to sit on my butt and think about it all.

-web

[AtlCop]

OK. Federal laws you can use to seize money:

If they identify themselves as a money courier but do not have any kind of documentation: US Code Title 31 Subtitle IV Chapter 53 Subchapter II Section: 5330

This code section requires them to be registered to do business as a money courier.

If they have undocumented cash in excess of 10k and can't satisfy your suspicions: US Code Title 31 Subtitle IV Chapter 53 Subchapter II Section: 5332

This section makes it a crime to smuggle cash in excess of 10k out of the country.

You can use this to seize cash in excess of 10k until they document that they possessed it legally.

Of course if you are going to seize cash federally, you need the assistance of the DEA.

[Army MP]

Some time ago I heard that International Drivers Licens's arn't recognized as a valid license to drive with. Can anyone shed light on this? 2 or 3 years ago I remember a lot of them showing up, but cannot recall how they were handled.

[duckfan]

AtlCop,
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. As far as I'm concerned, in the scenario given, there was more than enough for probable cause. However, carrying large amounts of cash, in and by itself, is by no means grounds for a seizure, Federally or otherwise. For example, in NY you are prohibited from selling an automobile for anything other than cash, bank check or certified check. If I stopped normal Joe Blow citizen with $10,000 cash and he told me that he had just sold a used car and was on his way to the bank to deposit the money, the interview is over. That's a reasonable explanation and he just dissipated my probable cause. On the other hand, if Jose Blow was speeding, unlicensed, in an "un-car" and with $10,000 he claims no knowledge of, he takes a ride to the house. If that resulted in obtaining further evidence of illegal activity related to the cash, it would be seized. If not, it would be returned as soon as he provides proof of ownership. He could do that on the same day he appears in court to answer the speeder and other coupons I gave him.(yeah right!)

[mobrien316]

Some time ago I heard that International Drivers Licens's arn't recognized as a valid license to drive with. Can anyone shed light on this? 2 or 3 years ago I remember a lot of them showing up, but cannot recall how they were handled.
A genuine International Driver's License has the operator's information translated into whatever language is spoken in the country they are driving in. It also must be accompanied by a valid license from the operator's country. A genuine one looks sort of like a passport.

The most common form of "International Driver's License" is a laminated ID with the person's name and address on it. Sometimes it contains a picture, sometimes it doesn't. They can be purchased at a variety of web sites for as little as $20, and they all have "Internation Driver's License" written on the top. They are absolutely worthless. They are as invalid as a person handing you a scrap of paper or crumpled notebook paper with their handwritten name on it and claiming that is their ID. (Yes, that has happened to me.)

[Delta784]

A genuine International Driver's License has the operator's information translated into whatever language is spoken in the country they are driving in. It also must be accompanied by a valid license from the operator's country. A genuine one looks sort of like a passport.

The most common form of "International Driver's License" is a laminated ID with the person's name and address on it. Sometimes it contains a picture, sometimes it doesn't. They can be purchased at a variety of web sites for as little as $20, and they all have "Internation Driver's License" written on the top. They are absolutely worthless. They are as invalid as a person handing you a scrap of paper or crumpled notebook paper with their handwritten name on it and claiming that is their ID. (Yes, that has happened to me.)

Correct, even a genuine "International Driver's License" does nothing but translate the driver's license of the person's home country. It doesn't extend any driving privileges on its own.

If someone hands me one, I just arrest them for unlicensed operation, and let the judge figure it out.

[gotthblues]

FORMER LEO, we ran into the problem of no dl, or international dl's,,what i was told by DA, they have to have their countries dl and paper proof (passport, etc) that they are legally in the country, if not, 10-15 and hook the car,, i had stopped one on the interstate once, close situation, he had $7k, but he had paycheck stubs, and i had a dog available, dog didnt hit on the $, however i was also told that a vast majority of $ has narcotic traces on it. i remember something about a limit on cash without documentation, but the majority opinion sounds pretty right to me. keep in mind also that a majority of hispanics dont use banks,,they have false ss# and so on, so they dont/cant use banks. but if you can articulate good circumstances, these guys are right, seize it and make them go to the judge, you act under law if you have the circumstances that you just said.

[AtlCop]

AtlCop,
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. As far as I'm concerned, in the scenario given, there was more than enough for probable cause. However, carrying large amounts of cash, in and by itself, is by no means grounds for a seizure, Federally or otherwise. For example, in NY you are prohibited from selling an automobile for anything other than cash, bank check or certified check. If I stopped normal Joe Blow citizen with $10,000 cash and he told me that he had just sold a used car and was on his way to the bank to deposit the money, the interview is over. That's a reasonable explanation and he just dissipated my probable cause. On the other hand, if Jose Blow was speeding, unlicensed, in an "un-car" and with $10,000 he claims no knowledge of, he takes a ride to the house. If that resulted in obtaining further evidence of illegal activity related to the cash, it would be seized. If not, it would be returned as soon as he provides proof of ownership. He could do that on the same day he appears in court to answer the speeder and other coupons I gave him.(yeah right!)

I still somewhat disagree with you. If a person can provide physical documentation of a legal reason to have the money then they keep it. However, just telling me that it is legal doesn't mean they get to keep it.

If they just sold a car, withdrew it from a bank, or obtained it for another legal purpose they should have written and verifiable documentation to back it up.

[duckfan]

I still somewhat disagree with you. If a person can provide physical documentation of a legal reason to have the money then they keep it. However, just telling me that it is legal doesn't mean they get to keep it.

If they just sold a car, withdrew it from a bank, or obtained it for another legal purpose they should have written and verifiable documentation to back it up.

It's possible that GA has a statute to cover it but I somehow doubt it. I am certain NY does not. The Constitution protects everyone from unreasonable searches and seizures. The onus is on the government (in this case the Police Officer) to prove that the money is involved in some type of illegal activity before seizing it. Mere possession is not enough and it doesn't matter how much money the guy had. It could be $10 or $10 million. The government must have a legitimate reason for seizing property. The proof required does not have to be a lot. It can be as simple as a quantity of marijuana residue in the trunk, but there must be something. The fact that everyone in the car disclaimed ownership of the money is enough to seize it, but only as found property and only until ownership can be determined. It can not be seized as contraband.
If you have a Statute that states otherwise, I would be interested in reading it. I'm always willing to learn and if I'm wrong, I'd like to know about it. The Federal Statues listed above don't apply in this case.

[gotthblues]

i think the "paper trail" is more for irs things rather than initially ment for officers.

[AtlCop]

If you buy a car you get paper. What paper do you get for selling one? You sign the title over to the new owner and you are on your way with the cash. If you are on the way to buy a car with cash in hand, what paperwork would you have if you don't use a bank, or borrowed the moeny from a family member.

My mother in law is Korean, she has more money stuffed in cubby holes than I have in the bank. Cash in and of itself is not a criminal element.

If you sell a car, you better get a copy of the receipt.

I'm just telling you what we were taught in drug interdiction class. If someone has over 10k cash and can't document it legally, it can be seized.

[AtlCop]

Forgot to add...

If you get to the point where you search and find cash, you're going to have one of the following:

1. Probable cause from a k-9 alert, plain-view, plain-smell etc..
2. Suspicion that there is criminal activity.

Therefore, if you find 10k in cash, you're going to be good to go.

[ufresdave]

Needless to say, my sergeant and I were clueless on what to do about this intl dl nonsense. We even had a trooper roll by and check out with us. He was like "wtf, I have no idea". Woulda loved to bring 10k home to the chief. Thanks for the insight all. stay safe.

[duckfan]

Don't feel bad Dave. Very few guys have ever seen an International License. I worked in a jurisdiction that bordered NYC and JFK Airport. We had tourists and businessmen from all over the world. In 27 years I think I saw maybe 3 International Licenses. The first time, I honored it. The second and third times I wrote them. As I recall, there are traffic warrants for them and they'll probably be in the system forever. All I accomplished was to generate a lot of paperwork. I would venture to say that if you wrote the guy, the judge wouldn't have a clue what to do either if he appeared in court.
The bottom line is that you went home with no more holes than you went to work with. That's all that really matters.

[duckfan]

Forgot to add...

If you get to the point where you search and find cash, you're going to have one of the following:

1. Probable cause from a k-9 alert, plain-view, plain-smell etc..
2. Suspicion that there is criminal activity.

Therefore, if you find 10k in cash, you're going to be good to go.

Good point. My Department didn't use the doggies for that type of thing but if yours does, they are a great tool. I don't know if it's still true but there was a study done a few years ago that said a very high percentage of the paper money in circulation had trace amounts of cocaine on it. With 10k in cash, there's a good chance the pooch is going to give you an alert.

[cleetus0219]

Those International DLs are all fakes and are bought on the black market for under $100. You could have hooked him right there as an unlicensed driver and impounded the car. Also be wary of those from Guatemala and Mexico. They know we don't see a lot of them (depending on where you work) so they have a high chance of getting away with it.

I definitely wouldn't have let the guy go, especially with that amount of cash and no ID.

Had you checked further, I'd guarantee that his birthday would change at least 5 times. His name on the ID is Hector Garcia, but he goes by Hector Valencia-Garcia, or Hector Garcia-Valencio, or Valencio Garcia. And you'd probably never be able to pin down his address. You see where this is going...

Win some, lose some.

[Cruiser]

UF, you have at least learned what to do if this ever occurs again and I would highly suggest that you let the bosses know so that this information can be passed along. There is something missing in your training program. Intl DL is no good without a lawful DL from the home country. It isn't even good for ID. You have an apparent illegal alien, (no passport, visa, etc), no ID, unlawfully operating a MV, unregistered vehicle, no insurance, and an amount of money that is illegal to possess without documentation and PC for drug trafficing. You have every right to take everything, (car, money), and take them to jail. ID them and await confirmation they are not wanted or on a terrorist watch ;) , and a dozen other things. Even if everything turns out to be legit, (and it won't), you are completely within your rights to sieze and detain.

[webjeep]

Reasonable suspicion opens a very small door. How long are you going to hold them for not being able to prove their ID?

It usually only takes an hour to get the response back on the prints from FBI, or you could livescan them if it's available. Worse comes to worst you can take them before the magistrate and he can hold them until they can be identified.

You are going to sieze a vehicle because you cannot "eliminate" it as being possibly stolen? That is almost every vehicle out there not driven by the registered owner. I would have taken it since the driver was unlicensed, if there were no other licensed drivers in the car.

OK, maybe improper phrasing due to sleep deprivation. At any rate, you can hold the vehicle for several reasons; it is sitting on the side of the highway, it has no record of registration, not to mention that the level of RS required to detain a vehicle is very low.



I need sleep

-web

[kiddiecop]

In Texas we can write cites for operators that live in Texas or the three States surronding us. If someone who resides outside of the tri state area gets pulled over, we are not allowed to write a cite, they must be taken before a judge and probable cause shown at that time. Talk about a speedy trial.
Judge: you are charged with speeding one hour ago, how do you plea?
Out of stater- Uhhhhhh.
This is very time consuming and really a pain in the rear. If they are polite enough they get the old warning.
In this case though I would have taken them straight to the judge. towed the car. They have to prove ownership of the car to get it out of the impound yard plus show insurance papers. I hope you at least got enough information that if it comes back as a terrorist later you can identify them.

[FNA209]

IDLs are garbage. Likewise we don't accept DLs from Panama, Guatemala, Brazil, and a few other places. It's op w/o a lic. The car gets towed. Canadian and Mexican DLs are ok.

It doesn't make a big difference. The ones doing it around here pay the fine so we don't get a lot of FTAs. And they get the car back from the tow company almost as fast as the tow truck pulls into the garage. I had one about three weeks back where I ticketed and towed, then went to the PD to do some paperwork. As I left the PD, the car goes by. The guy I ticketed was in the passenger seat, smiling at me.

[USAcop]

All drug money I have seen is either wrapped in cellophane or it is bundled in a way that drug dealers package their money. They do it because dogs can hit on the money.

You see each denomnation meticulously wrapped with rubber bands. You will know it when you see it. They will bundle it up in certain amounts. Your small street dealers are different.

Just seize the money. count the money and give him a receipt and get his name, address, and phone number for the seizure hearing

They hide the money usually in the same compartments where they originally transported the drugs.

[Centurion44]

AtlCop isn't arguing the ethics or Constitutional Interpretaion of seizing the money. He's simply telling you what the law is and that it can be seized.
He's not entering an opinion, he's giving you a fact. If you don't like it, don't blame him, you need to talk to the boys in Washington.

As for the stop itself, ufresdave. Don't sweat it. You're not going to catch them all. Remember the note on your first paycheck: "In two weeks, you get another one just like it."

[Centurion44]

What is the USC section?

OK. Federal laws you can use to seize money:

If they identify themselves as a money courier but do not have any kind of documentation: US Code Title 31 Subtitle IV Chapter 53 Subchapter II Section: 5330

This code section requires them to be registered to do business as a money courier.

If they have undocumented cash in excess of 10k and can't satisfy your suspicions: US Code Title 31 Subtitle IV Chapter 53 Subchapter II Section: 5332

This section makes it a crime to smuggle cash in excess of 10k out of the country.

You can use this to seize cash in excess of 10k until they document that they possessed it legally.

Of course if you are going to seize cash federally, you need the assistance of the DEA.

Please pay attention. I don't want to have to hold your hand through this whole discussion. Thank you.

[ufresdave]

lol thanks for all the replies. Im deff learning a lot from all the responses. sometimes its all just too confusing and overwhelming. Then someone reminds me what it says on the side of my car.

[Centurion44]

I apologize. What I meant was what is the USC that makes possession of $10k illegal.

Do I need to hold your hand and walk you through why the above referenced statutes do not make possession illegal, or can you read them for yourself?

The subject did not identify herself as a legitimate courier, nor were they stopped under circumstances that could lead a reasonable person to believe they were attempting to smuggle the money from the country. NB on I75 in Florida is a long way from the Canadian border. :p

No, you just need to hold my hand when I go potty.

We're not in the mind-reading business. No, the Canadian border is a long way away, but the Gulf of Mexico is not. She could have an Elian Gonzalez raft waiting for her for all we know. Like the man said, seize the money and let the proove to the court they have it legally. They're not citizens so it's a reasonable assumption that they plan on taking the money out of the country. If they were Americans, it'd probably be a tougher sell. But as it was? Nah.

[AtlCop]

I was under the impression she was NB on I75 away from Ocala and towards GA. So the next international boundary she would have gotten to was Canada. :D

I am sure there is a good chance they were up to no good. Knowing and proving are two different things. The IRS screws people over all the time and puts them in situations where they have to prove they are innocent. I prefer to not associate myself with them. If I can't prove you guilty, you walk. I'll catch you later.

Speedboat in the Gulf loaded with cash is a no brainer. Someone car shopping with $10k, not so much.

It is taught in drug interdiction to seize funds over $10k if they can not DOCUMENT they legally possess the cash. I never said the person was guilty of the statutes which I posted. It is up to the judge to determine guilt or innocence.

Let me try and run through this again:

If you stop a car and get to the point where you have searched and found cash, you have:

1. Probable Cause to Search the Vehicle
2. Reasonable Suspicion that criminal activity is occurring and consent to search.

If they have a large sum of money, they should have some sort of paperwork which dispels your suspicions. If they do not, you CAN seize the money. You need the assistance of the DEA to do so.

Let me say this again: This is STANDARD DRUG INTERDICTION TRAINING. My specialty areas are drugs and traffic. I have been sent out of state by my department to attend drug interdiction training.

A reasonable person would not think it was normal for people to just be carrying around ten thousand dollars in cash. How many people do you know that do it? I don't know anyone except armored car drivers.

I'm limited on time or I'd type much more on the subject.

[Trooper4985]

I've only got a little over 2 years on the road but I know if a vehicle comes back unregistered and I can't ID the driver... the vehicle is mine and the operator is coming with me till I can positively ID them regardless of their ethnicity. The money is a whole other issue... cinicism can't be taken too far... the only people you should trust are yourself and your co-workers... Everybpdy else you deal with are suspects.

A reasonable person would not think it was normal for people to just be carrying around ten thousand dollars in cash.

Bingo! Anytime I see any amount of money I get suspicious... any amount being more than a couple hundred. I have spent almost and entire hour on a traffic stop before, granted it netted me B Felony weight cocaine and other times nothign, as long as you can articulate everything you did.. it's all good. (Even the priest from Princton is a suspect... Who would have thought a priest 1.) wouldn't ID himself and 2.) would make a PC becuase you asked him if he had any tickets he hadn't answered. :eek: )

[SMPPD87]

Correct, even a genuine "International Driver's License" does nothing but translate the driver's license of the person's home country. It doesn't extend any driving privileges on its own.

If someone hands me one, I just arrest them for unlicensed operation, and let the judge figure it out.

i have a nice little collection of international drivers licenses :)

[DeltaCop]

Since you could really not make a definite ID on the guy, and you had him for a pretty good traffic violation, couldnt you have booked him in on the tickets. Here in Louisiana you dont have to give the ticket, since it is essentially a summons for court. You could have booked him in on the tickets, which would have given you plenty of opportunity to ID him in jail.

Then tow the car for no registration, and especially no insurance. Then do the K-9 thing on the car when they got back in service, or call them out if you have to. Since your towing the car you would have to inventory it anyway which would give you more time to do a thorough search. I would go ahead and seize the cash, at least until you could run it by an on-call DA or Detective. You probably couldnt do anything with the female, but let her walk, but you would have everything else. At least thats the way it would work down here in Cajunland.

DeltaCop

[goober]

learning A LOT from this thread.

going out on a limb here, rookie on the road but 6 years dispatch & admin (research) can you do title queries through your state? We can. Often a VIN nif in DMV *will* come back to a title query and you can go from there... but most dispatchers don't know this and have to be asked. If there's ANY identifying sticker on the car (i.e. joe's junk jeeps--GA) you can call the state that's in and ask *them* to TQ it.

If it's a very new vehicle, you can also run it through... coast guard? border patrol? --editing, I think it might be DOT or Nat'l Highway... at any rate, there's a very particular NCIC search that all bills of laiding on veh's go through. The name escapes me, but once in a blue moon, you get a good lead from it. Just paper trails that are sometimes useful.

DEA and Border Patrol/Immigration are usually available at least via phone for us, usually happy to help (even if they wake up cranky)

Really interesting repiles here. ;)

[tpcop007]

Some time ago I heard that International Drivers Licens's arn't recognized as a valid license to drive with. Can anyone shed light on this? 2 or 3 years ago I remember a lot of them showing up, but cannot recall how they were handled.


Ok the only 2 valid intl driving permits are issued from American Automobile Association (AAA) and American Automobile Touring Alliance (AATA). They are ONLY valid for citizens of another country operating a motor vehilce in the US. They are NOT valid for US citizens, Resident Aliens, etc..operating in the US. The person must have with them their country's valid DL.

They are a paper document, not laminated, and the entries are handwritten and the color of the outer cover is grey.

If these requirements aren't met or the person says they live in the US then lock them up if they don't have a valid US state dl.

The fictitious International Driver's License (see the termanology license vs permit) are issued by International Automobile CO INC and the International Automobile Driver's CLub, among other companies. In Florida you can arrest someone for fictitious dl of they hand you one of these. Hope this helps.

[RPD1112]

Actually the DEA calls it "Operating without a money transfer license". A suspect from Miami, Fl I stopped last year and seized $639,620 was sentenced to 28 in a federal pen for the violation and the minimum is $10,000. However you have to have a drug nexsis in order for them to adopt the case. In my situation, a trained and certified K-9 alerted to the vehicle and the money.
Seems like you could have seized the money. Like others have said, make them prove it in court. My only questions was if they couldn't speak english, how did you get consent?

[Bart]

Needless to say, my sergeant and I were clueless on what to do about this intl dl nonsense. We even had a trooper roll by and check out with us. He was like "wtf, I have no idea". Woulda loved to bring 10k home to the chief. Thanks for the insight all. stay safe.

dont beat yourself up. your supervisor is the one who shouldve had the answers. but even he cant know everything. next time this happens, youll know better. thats the way things work in this business.

[ufresdave]

Good points all. We got consent from the driver, if thats what you want to call it.

[Rally]

I would encourage everyone to look at a REAL intl DL. They are a tri-fold card stock card. I have one myself, and I have seen one from another country and they looked almost exactly the same.

Look our for FAKE ones. I have seen a ton of Mexican International Driver License that is the size of a regular DL, and is laminated. This might be good in Mexico, but it's considered unlicensed in the good ole US of A.

[rgv_cop]

In Texas we can write cites for operators that live in Texas or the three States surronding us. If someone who resides outside of the tri state area gets pulled over, we are not allowed to write a cite, they must be taken before a judge and probable cause shown at that time. Talk about a speedy trial.
Judge: you are charged with speeding one hour ago, how do you plea?
Out of stater- Uhhhhhh.
This is very time consuming and really a pain in the rear. If they are polite enough they get the old warning.
In this case though I would have taken them straight to the judge. towed the car. They have to prove ownership of the car to get it out of the impound yard plus show insurance papers. I hope you at least got enough information that if it comes back as a terrorist later you can identify them.

You can cite anyone that is in the violator compact listings. The only time I instanter someone is when:
1. they are from a non-compact state,
2. another country,
3. refuse to sign a citation.

I have never heard of the "tri-state" method you use, but then maybe that's your dept. policy.