Teacher fired for displaying picture of President

[Centurion44]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0721053bush1.html

I guess it figures since a Democrat can't make an arguement with facts she'll just ignore the truth altogether.

[pkagel]

Along those lines, I remember when I went to my 1st ship in the Navy, in 92, they had the President's picture on the quarterdeck. When Clinton was elected they just had the CO, XO and CMC's pictures instead.

[savage4presiden]

That reminds me of an incident last election. A school teacher was forced to take down a display of past presidents because she would not put up a picture of John Kerry. All she said was that John Kerry was not a past president. They made her take it down anyway. :mad:

[djack16]

I guess it figures since a Democrat can't make an arguement with facts...
:rolleyes:
I guess since a Republican can't spell argument with letters...

Principal was wrong, teacher should win her lawsuit, the picture should go up along with the other presidents. Simple.

All parties have their unthinking partisan loyalists...no surprise here.

[premium]

The principle was wrong if what was brought in the lawsuit is correct but who has heard the other side?

The teacher was also wrong to not follow the direction of a supervisor even if she didn

[hellokitty]

There has to be more to the story than this, but if not...I hope she wins her case. As a democrat myself, I still know how to respect the President. Seeing his picture (?) would never enrage me. Hearing a teacher gloat about him would never enrage me, either. This is only in the 'news' because of how stupid it is. Unfortunately, we see most of our 'news' because of its shock value. To react to it with anything other than mild amusement is the *reason* we only see these dumb stories, and not the ones that deserve our attention.

[Centurion44]

:rolleyes:
I guess since a Republican can't spell argument with letters...


First off, that's just petty. Secondly, you assume I'm a Republican- even with my sig file. So I can't spell and you can't read. Thanks for playing.

[djack16]

Touch

[mcsexplorer]

If it was up with the other presedents,I dont see a problem.

[djack16]

If it was up with the other presedents,I dont see a problem.
Agreed. I think the problem was with a couple of folks who didn't like her because she was indeed a professed Republican and used the picture as "proof" that she is using the classroom to influence the children's political views.

If she had been adorning her room with posters of various right-wing figures and mocking a particular group then I think it would be out of line. I wonder what ever became of this lawsuit.

[hounddog]

Agreed. I think the problem was with a couple of folks who didn't like her because she was indeed a professed Republican and used the picture as "proof" that she is using the classroom to influence the children's political views.

If she had been adorning her room with posters of various right-wing figures and mocking a particular group then I think it would be out of line. I wonder what ever became of this lawsuit.

But I have been in classrooms for various reasons and have seen many posters/pictures/quotes from those at the ACLU. Why is one group ok and not the other? This is the double standard so often used by the left-leaning. It's ok to teach "tolerance" but to not actually tolerate any opinion other than that of the left-wing. i.e. the wonderfully insightful "Anybody but Bush." which I saw in half of the classrooms in a school I searched prior to the last election. Guess that was ok.. Ok- how about Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden? Sorry- I rant... :o

[djack16]

But I have been in classrooms for various reasons and have seen many posters/pictures/quotes from those at the ACLU. Why is one group ok and not the other? This is the double standard so often used by the left-leaning. It's ok to teach "tolerance" but to not actually tolerate any opinion other than that of the left-wing. i.e. the wonderfully insightful "Anybody but Bush." which I saw in half of the classrooms in a school I searched prior to the last election. Guess that was ok.. Ok- how about Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden? Sorry- I rant... :o
You're so sure those were endorsed by the school? I NEVER went into a classroom in which a teacher had decorated it with political commentary. If you have such a problem with this why don't you complain? Kids go to school to LEARN not to be preached to.

[hounddog]

You're so sure those were endorsed by the school? I NEVER went into a classroom in which a teacher had decorated it with political commentary. If you have such a problem with this why don't you complain? Kids go to school to LEARN not to be preached to.

The MEA (Michigan Educational Association) is one of the most left wing associated groups in michigan right behind the auto unions. Every teacher with a certificate in Michigan belongs. Who do I complain to? There may be some who don't agree with the thinking- but how do you find them? They won't speak up for fear of job oriented reprisals. And what good will it do to complain to a left leaning administration? They fight to get the Ten Commandments taken out of school- something on which this country's ideal and laws were founded; they fight to get the words "In God we trust" removed from the Pledge of Allegence, something I'm not entirely sure I disagree with-but do disagree with; and they fight to remove school prayers and suspend students who pray on their own time while on school grounds. In many schools now you can't even have pictures of SANTA CLAUSE. I have complained about all of these to the same school district I saw the posters and things- but it still goes on.

I do agree with you that I send my kids to school to learn. Not to have a foreign set of morals pressed upon their open minds. If a child goes to the liberal side on their own, that's fine and part of how young people think. Change oriented is always on their minds as it is supposed to be, after all they are young! :rolleyes: Our school systems have been taken over by the ultra liberals who pass out condoms, and tell teenage kids it's ok to have pre-marital sex, that the nuclear family is outdated, and that it is ok to call the police when your parents spank you or try to control a completely out of control kid who is tearing up a house. Some of these teachers try to undermine the family, and teach these children to disrespect the authority of the parent. Parents are afraid of these people because they threaten to call protective services (which in Michigan is another ultra left organization whom cops can hardly get them to do their jobs regarding heavy abuse and drug use in the home, but if they get one call from a teacher- whatch out) and have kids removed from home. They call the police and files unsubstantiated claims, demanding that we remove kids.

I have seen them go to kids homes and try to take the kids out because they feel the parents aren't considering the feelings of the child. I was just ranting a little- but I absolutely believe they were endorsed by the schools- perhaps not officially, but I know they were under the table. After all, the MEA had the second highest amount of donations to Kerry in the last election in Michigan. ( I can be wrong about that- I am going by memory) There is a trend, and it does no good to complain. Just the opinion of a frustrated parent.

I admire this teacher for her conviction, even if her actions were misplaced.

[Zipcreature]

Kids go to school to LEARN not to be preached to.

Humbug. Basically kids to grade school in order to learn to behave, and follow all instructions without questioning. Don't agree? Try challenging a stereotype in a public school today. You might get expelled.
We go to College to learn out skills, and the "secret curriculum" which is competition and time management.

- Zipcreature

[hounddog]

You're so sure those were endorsed by the school? I NEVER went into a classroom in which a teacher had decorated it with political commentary. If you have such a problem with this why don't you complain? Kids go to school to LEARN not to be preached to.

First off, I have to go back to this NEVER comment. When did you go into a school during the last election? Honest question, not trying to start fight.

Secondly, since you were born in 1985 and are only 21 years old I'll give you a pass cuz you haven't had the chance to figure out the world.

Third- a quote for you"If a man isn't a liberal by the time he is 20 he has no heart. If he isn't a conservative by the time he is 30, he has no brains." Guess who said it and what it means?

[CarCop]

John Stossel from 20/20 did a story about what kids "know" type deal. It was amazing to see how quickly our children just absorb some of this stuff (third grade I believe). His topics were not on politics but more on enviromental issues that certainly are political. None the less kids just latched on, hook line and sinker. I know there young minds are open to persuation and I think that is exactly why, teachers need to especially careful not to "preach" just stick to the 3 r's and we're good. Stay away from the " ENLIGHTENED OPINIONS" and you'll have no problem from me.

HD your right on with your observations and it's not just there, it's everywhere. I am fortunate to live in a school district in which the teachers are not unionized and it is not allowed. And go figure, the education rates as one of the best in the state, the homes cost more simply for the school district and the schoolboard is held accountable for the money it gets. When all the surrounding school districts where in finacial trouble (still are) ours had a surplus of money and more new schools, complexes. The surrounding area has a larger tax draw simply due to size. Go figure, hold them accountable and they actually do a good job. Hope things change in your neck of the wood HD, Good luck!

[Centurion44]

Humbug. Basically kids to grade school in order to learn to behave, and follow all instructions without questioning.

Sadly this is true to most public education students. I remember when parents were responsible for making their kids behave.

If you can't afford private or home schooling, you can't afford a kid, IMO.

[hounddog]

Sadly this is true to most public education students. I remember when parents were responsible for making their kids behave.

If you can't afford private or home schooling, you can't afford a kid, IMO.

My wife and I are currently searching for a good private school. Haven't been able to find a good one in Michigan, though. :(

Interesting how cops seem to agree with the teacher, and the public side with the administration. Or am I reading into it?

[KY PO]

There is nothing wrong with having a picture of "dubbya" up in the classroom...even if it is just him without portraits of other presidents, because he is the current one. Other than that, I do not want my children to be given the opinions of some teacher about social policy, the budget or anything else. I get sick of teachers in the first place...always whining about not making enough money. I wish I made that much money. This year the teachers are getting a 15% raise, while they are simultaneously voting to take away the other state workers annual 5% raise forever.

I do not want politics or religion in the classroom. Recently my daughter came home from Kindergarten telling us something the teacher has said about God making such and such this way......excuse me? I don't want my children learning anything but solid facts and skills from the teachers. I don't need them coached in conservative fascism or bleeding heart liberalism. I'll teach my kid about that stuff.

[1042 Trooper]

Anyway...getting back to the original thread, the latest liberal Bozo should be canned. Of course he won't be, but he should. A no brainer.

[Hogswine]

Let me start out by saying that I voted for W the past two times

The first time I voted for him because I thought he was LESS of an imbecile than Gore

The second time I voted for him because I thought he was LESS of a liar than Kerry

I was wrong. Looking at the mess in Iraq and the gravestones of our young, I wish I had voted the other way. We should have just bombed Iran, Saudi Arabia and Syria into the stone age and left Saddam alone. He was OPPRESSING the radicals and now we have made it so the radicals will be running Iraq.

We should not waste one omre American life trying to bring freedom to people who don;t want to be free

Thanks, W...Thanks Haliburton

I guess if that teacher had displayed a picture of Bush in a display of "war criminals", you would not be too concerned with her right to "free speech"

You can;t have it both ways and you need to think for yourselves instead of just walking lock step with Rush Limbaugh

I wish some REAL conservatives like Pat Buchannan, Thomas Sowell and Alan Keys had a chance of winning

[nemesis]

Let me start out by saying that I voted for W the past two times

The first time I voted for him because I thought he was LESS of an imbecile than Gore

The second time I voted for him because I thought he was LESS of a liar than Kerry

I was wrong. Looking at the mess in Iraq and the gravestones of our young, I wish I had voted the other way. We should have just bombed Iran, Saudi Arabia and Syria into the stone age and left Saddam alone. He was OPPRESSING the radicals and now we have made it so the radicals will be running Iraq.

We should not waste one omre American life trying to bring freedom to people who don;t want to be free

Thanks, W...Thanks Haliburton

I guess if that teacher had displayed a picture of Bush in a display of "war criminals", you would not be too concerned with her right to "free speech"

You can;t have it both ways and you need to think for yourselves instead of just walking lock step with Rush Limbaugh

I wish some REAL conservatives like Pat Buchannan, Thomas Sowell and Alan Keys had a chance of winning

There are no guarantees that things would have been better with a Democrat. The only difference, is that other people would be making the money (maybe gas prices would be lower). I like the idea of bombing everyone. Maybe we could 'accidentally' hit the French embassy again.

I also agree that there should be some diversity in opinions instead of only following Rush Limbaugh. I also like to listen to Shawn Hannity, Bill O'Reilly and Pat Robertson.

[Hogswine]

There are no guarantees that things would have been better with a Democrat. The only difference, is that other people would be making the money (maybe gas prices would be lower). I like the idea of bombing everyone. Maybe we could 'accidentally' hit the French embassy again.

I also agree that there should be some diversity in opinions instead of only following Rush Limbaugh. I also like to listen to Shawn Hannity, Bill O'Reilly and Pat Robertson.


With the excection of Diamond Pat's fake religious twist, all those guys say the same thing over and over

I like G. Gordon Liddy. He is also agrees with what I say about the title "corrections officer"

[KY PO]

Go to www.google.com type in the word failure and hit the "I'm feeling lucky" button right next to search.

[djack16]

The MEA (Michigan Educational Association) is one of the most left wing associated groups in michigan right behind the auto unions. Every teacher with a certificate in Michigan belongs. Who do I complain to?

How about you try the county's school board with a logical argument? Try something along the lines of "Teachers are not supposed to be proselytizing one point of view; religious or political." At least if they scoff, you can take it to the next higher authority if you are so motivated.

I would probably put down money that the majority of "liberals" would disagree with the case of this teacher. My teachers were mostly liberals and they didn't have one shred of their politics displayed in the classroom.

Whatever your opinion, President Bush is a president of these United States and a part of it's significant history. His picture unfortunately belongs up among the past ones.

There may be some who don't agree with the thinking- but how do you find them? They won't speak up for fear of job oriented reprisals. And what good will it do to complain to a left leaning administration?

Because they have a stake in that freedom too. If John Kerry had been elected and the fuss been started by the Swift Boat liars then they would probably see it as I see it. He is president, his picture is relevant to our modern world. What it MEANS however is entirely up to whoever views it.

They fight to get the Ten Commandments taken out of school- something on which this country's ideal and laws were founded;

This is wrong. This myth is perpetuated by some of the most ignorant people on the planet.

they fight to get the words "In God we trust" removed from the Pledge of Allegence,

In God We Trust is on our currency. Our current edition of the Pledge of Allegience includes a pledge to God. Do I really need to point out that people of all religions, and no religion (yes, atheists), fought and died for this country as well? The Pledge of Allegience should be a pledge for everybody, not just Christians. Patriots come in all beliefs, all colors, shapes and sizes. It frustrates me to no end to see Christians who constantly believe they are the only people who have an investment in this nation.

something I'm not entirely sure I disagree with-but do disagree with;

This I would like to hear more on.

and they fight to remove school prayers and suspend students who pray on their own time while on school grounds.

Please stop exaggerating when you talk about this. The fight is to remove compulsory prayer and teacher's proselytizing to their students, not to take prayer away from the children :rolleyes: . HELLO! This works for BOTH sides. Schools that tried to suspend students who prayed during lunch or between classes are obviously violating their constitutional rights. I would like to see ONE case where the suspension was upheld where a student was suspended in either over those situations. The way you make it sound it's like an epidemic. One common theme I have seen with Christians who object to being prevented from pushing their beliefs onto people is that of persecution. You think Christians are being disproportionately discriminated against in this country. BALONEY!

In many schools now you can't even have pictures of SANTA CLAUSE. I have complained about all of these to the same school district I saw the posters and things- but it still goes on.

That bugs me. I think it's just that they delve so deep into religious roots of Santa Claus that they forget about the modern fantasy character that it now represents. The bottom line though is that this is not an epidemic and a lot of people are trying to make slippery slope arguments out of it. I think it's ridiculous as well as many of my liberal friends.

I do agree with you that I send my kids to school to learn. Not to have a foreign set of morals pressed upon their open minds. If a child goes to the liberal side on their own, that's fine and part of how young people think. Change oriented is always on their minds as it is supposed to be, after all they are young! :rolleyes:

Wow. Now that you have asserted that liberalism is the result of immature thinking I totally believe you. I mean, it makes perfect sense. Standing up the rights of minorities is so childish. Social programs don't do anything good and only serve to enable lazy people. All homeless people are homeless because it's their fault. I'm beginning to see how mature you are!

Our school systems have been taken over by the ultra liberals who pass out condoms, and tell teenage kids it's ok to have pre-marital sex, that the nuclear family is outdated, and that it is ok to call the police when your parents spank you or try to control a completely out of control kid who is tearing up a house.

Now you've crossed over from hyperbole to flat out lying. This spiel is OLD. Ancient. And now, thanks to you, we have enough strawmen in this thread to burn all of the world's bibles muahahahahha :rolleyes: .

Teenagers are, in all likliehood, going to give the finger to authority because that is the nature of people going through extreme hormonal phases. The logical next step is to provide them with a means to prevent themselves from sealing their fate with either STD's or an unwanted pregnancy. Yep, a jimmy hat. The condoms are not an endorsement. They are a stark reminder. Most kids I grew up with knew "Use the condom or you very likely will impregnate." Do you know WHY they know that? Because we had an awkward lesson where we were herded into the cafeteria and learned that pulling out doesn't work, STD's are as real as the fellow in that picture with painful lesions all over his body, and even with a condom you can still get STD's. The other option our school officials had was to sit back and let nature continue on it's course with no education or intervention. We all know how that would work.

Some of these teachers try to undermine the family, and teach these children to disrespect the authority of the parent. Parents are afraid of these people because they threaten to call protective services (which in Michigan is another ultra left organization whom cops can hardly get them to do their jobs regarding heavy abuse and drug use in the home, but if they get one call from a teacher- whatch out) and have kids removed from home. They call the police and files unsubstantiated claims, demanding that we remove kids.

It's obvious you know NOTHING of what you are talking about. I've known several people who were abused while they were children and I encouraged them at the time to tell teachers and counselors. CPS doesn't come out at the beck and call of teachers and counselors I can tell you that much. Not a damn thing was done about this friend's parents allowing his brother to beat the crap out of him almost daily. CPS, in my experiences, has been found useless. In fact, I would probably not call them because of the complications they would probably bring.

I have seen them go to kids homes and try to take the kids out because they feel the parents aren't considering the feelings of the child.

If that's the case then obviously they are worthless, which I agree with for the most part. You have no foundation for labeling them ultra liberals though.

I was just ranting a little- but I absolutely believe they were endorsed by the schools- perhaps not officially, but I know they were under the table. After all, the MEA had the second highest amount of donations to Kerry in the last election in Michigan. ( I can be wrong about that- I am going by memory) There is a trend, and it does no good to complain. Just the opinion of a frustrated parent.

I admire this teacher for her conviction, even if her actions were misplaced.
I am a pretty serious liberal and I would be outraged by a school that tried officially endorsed political action groups or organizations. It's obviously not in the best interest of the children to be politicizing the classroom.

Again, if you take issue with a school policy you have every right to make that complaint and have it heard. Look at what happened in Dover County. The voters took care of a problem when the school board wouldn't.

I remember when I was in High School there were lunch servers (old ladies) who would not follow the basic rules of wearing hairnets and not having servers transfer money as well as food. I had found multiple strands of hair in my food four times and I was sick of it. I took it to the vice principal, who blew it off. Then the principal, who blew it off. The next step I took, which was probably too far, was the local DHHS office. The agent told me he would visit the school and solve the problem that next day. The next day, it was indeed solved. I've found that if you get serious with them (logical argument and formal complaints) things will happen. It may take a few extra steps though.

[djack16]

First off, I have to go back to this NEVER comment. When did you go into a school during the last election? Honest question, not trying to start fight.

Secondly, since you were born in 1985 and are only 21 years old I'll give you a pass cuz you haven't had the chance to figure out the world.

Third- a quote for you"If a man isn't a liberal by the time he is 20 he has no heart. If he isn't a conservative by the time he is 30, he has no brains." Guess who said it and what it means?
I admit I didn't walk into every classroom to find propaganda. The classes I did see though weren't politicized. My liberal teachers didn't bring their causes to school; they brought their chalk, notes, and passion like any other good teacher would. The closest thing that came it was a teacher's advice for me not to go into the USMC. He had seen his students die in wars before; not quite something I could blame him for.

My age is irrelevant in this discussion. You are mischaracterizing efforts to protect the constitutional rights of ALL Americans and exaggerating the indirect consequences of a few isolated incidents. My grandmother, who passed away 3 years ago, agreed with many of the points I have made with you in this thread. It isn't the first time I have had to argue with somebody about these topics. My grandmother taught me that age has little to do with how liberal a person is. A quick glance over the issues that have faced us and currently face us is enough to blow that notion right out of the water.

Winston Churchill was a great man; but flawed as all of us are. Conservatives across the sea compared to the conservatives in this country are pretty different. So are those far back in American history. But on his quote. It doesn't mean anything except that it is his OPINION, and quite a pretentious one at that. I'm sorry but topics such as gay rights are about as influenced by age as racial minorities' rights. I do see though that a lot of young people are liberal. It is very encouraging.

[hounddog]

djack-
I have neither the time nor inclination to respond in whole to a 21 year old left coast liberal who has only known the world of school and probably higher education. You have no real world experience to draw from when develpoing your scewed version of life outside the sheltering of mom and dad. And what a surprise, a liberal from California. Talk about an old schtick! :rolleyes:

I will respond to one point- Our laws are based and founded on the Ten Comandments. Try reading a history book sometime! :p

[Jimmy127]

He told you not to join the USMC? I've read what you've said, and like hounddog do not feel compelled to respond in full to your comments. But as an 8 year vet from the Corps I can't help but point out that this is the educator putting unwarranted tripe into the mind of the student. If you consider this to be "the closest thing" that you have encountered, then you have been blind to everything you have been told through your career as a student.

As an exercise, take a while to consider why he would tell you that. You're interested in law enforcement, it is what you want to do. It takes a special breed to have that desire, the same kind of person who often does military and LEO such as myself. You want to have extreme eye opening experiences that make you feel alive as you encounter them, something most people may come across just once, if at all, in their life time. You want to help people. Marines die, yes. LEOs die, yes. Car accidents, living room furniture, and ink pens kill every day people every day. Why would he tell you not to be a Marine?

It is your mother's place to tell you not to be a Marine because they are killed in combat. She is the only one who can tell you that without a hidden agenda behind her statement.

I seem to remember legislation keeping military recruiters off of campuses in California.

Most teachers/professors cannot help interjecting their opinion into classroom debate in one way or another. They'll either flat out give their opinion, or encourage an opinion, or get detectably excited when a student gives an opinion which agrees with their own (and observably cautious with those they disagree with).

The obvious theme of my post is to state the the whole point of those who worry about instructor "opinion" indoctrination is that the student doesn't realize it is happening. And that is why hounddog's citing your age is, indeed, important.

[Bklngirl]

Iteach in a college for many years.My Dept. is very libral,I'm kinda middle of the road.There are issues I'm very libral about,and others conservative.The other teachers ram their politics down the kid's throat,they hate it,and rightly so.I don't do that,and they appriciate it.When there's an election,I just tell them to vote,not who to vote for.

[Seventy2002]

Iteach in a college for many years.My Dept. is very libral,I'm kinda middle of the road.There are issues I'm very libral about,and others conservative.

I hope you don't teach English.

[fair witness]

I'm no Bush fan, but a picture of the president in a classroom is hardly rabid indoctrination into anything. As somebody else said, it's in the eye of the beholder. As a parent I do want my kids to know who the President is. As for what to think of him- I offer my input, other people will offer theirs, I want them to reach their own conclusions.

[Rue]

You're so sure those were endorsed by the school? I NEVER went into a classroom in which a teacher had decorated it with political commentary. If you have such a problem with this why don't you complain? Kids go to school to LEARN not to be preached to.

Lets see.... Preach you say.. Yes children are sent to school to learn. Learn what?? When I was in school, we had teachers that if they didnt agree with the curriculum, or what was to be taught, simply refused to teach it, or taught according to their own opinions of the subject at hand. Yes school in many ways isnt taught but is preaching. Once we get out of school, we begin to learn from experience. Learning is not reading and book work, but experience provided by life.
Just the other day my cousin informed me that she knew how to be a mother, she'd completed all of her parenting classes, aced all of her psych tests, and read several books. She doesnt have any kids. However she is going to adopt 3 kids, and she and her husband are going to be GREAT parents because they have read, and been taught how to be a parent.
WRONG. Experience teaches you how to be anything that you are. Learning the right answeres from a book, teaches you how to answer appropriately, according to the question on your paper. In school many things are black and white, inl ife we learn that there is truly a grey area there that no body mentioned to us.

[bcoffill]

as with everything...THERE IS A RIGHT WAY AND A REAL WAY TO EVERYTHING...

[djack16]

djack-
I have neither the time nor inclination to respond in whole to a 21 year old left coast liberal who has only known the world of school and probably higher education.

If your experience were so valuable and overwhelming I'm sure it would be somewhat easy to articulate; yet you cannot. You've stamped me with your label and your done. It wouldn't be the first time a person couldn't make a point and bailed.

You have no real world experience to draw from when develpoing your scewed version of life outside the sheltering of mom and dad. And what a surprise, a liberal from California. Talk about an old schtick! :rolleyes:

Again complaining about "dem dere" liberals. Let's see here...I seeked out as much experience as I could through volunteer police work (since the beginning of high school and throughout), actually paying attention and learning from my family members, friends and acquaintances in society, ...
I will respond to one point- Our laws are based and founded on the Ten Comandments. Try reading a history book sometime! :p
...and HISTORY BOOKS! There are laws in your ten commandments that exist in contravention to our constitution. That is the least of it though; there is also the fact that Adams, Jefferson, Madison etc were very much critical of the legitimacy of the commandments. Also...what VERSION of the ten commandments do you think our laws originated from. Our constitution and state laws allow us to do many things contrary to the commonly referenced commandments so it makes less and less sense. It also doesn't help that the ten commandments is basically a ripoff of other moral codes predating them. Man it's hard to type and laugh at the same time. Commence the mental gymnastics.

He told you not to join the USMC? I've read what you've said, and like hounddog do not feel compelled to respond in full to your comments. But as an 8 year vet from the Corps I can't help but point out that this is the educator putting unwarranted tripe into the mind of the student. If you consider this to be "the closest thing" that you have encountered, then you have been blind to everything you have been told through your career as a student.
Unwarranted tripe? The man had seen students he had become close with go and die in war; fruitless war. My teachers didn't politicize our classrooms. They taught the subject matter. If politics arose, it was generally from students.

Your comment about me being blind to all of what I've been taught is hilarious. I barely know how to respond to such drivel. Let me get this straight...everything they teach in school is liberal propaganda? You sound worse than a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.
As an exercise, take a while to consider why he would tell you that.

It doesn't take more than 2 seconds to get an answer for that. He saw young people die in war and South Central Los Angeles. He's sick of the death. I may not agree that dissuading people from military service is a good thing to do but I can't blame him for his views.

Car accidents, living room furniture, and ink pens kill every day people every day. Why would he tell you not to be a Marine?

I already told you why he told me not to.

It is your mother's place to tell you not to be a Marine because they are killed in combat. She is the only one who can tell you that without a hidden agenda behind her statement.
Bullsquash. I think you are so roped in by conservative conspiracy theory and rhetoric that you believe every liberal is out to weaken the military, support terrorism, etc. It makes me absolutely sick. People go out to war and they sacrifice; both in blood and mind. I'm not naive in the ways of political persuasion; I study it intently. I form my own opinions, which may or may not line up with other people, and I tread my own trail. I'm not saying that is anything special. It's just the truth about who I am.
I seem to remember legislation keeping military recruiters off of campuses in California.

Because the military's treatment of gays violated the standards of community of those schools; namely non-descrimination rules. I thought it was quite a fair play.

Most teachers/professors cannot help interjecting their opinion into classroom debate in one way or another. They'll either flat out give their opinion, or encourage an opinion, or get detectably excited when a student gives an opinion which agrees with their own (and observably cautious with those they disagree with).

Debate has always been encouraged in my classes. The conservatives who argued always got trounced using rational arguements by other students. I could care less if a teacher is excited whether I said something they agree with. I made a few papers that could be classified as right-wing material and I recieved A's or B's on them to my recollection. Death penalty, gun rights, and alcohol minimum drinking age. I think liberals are probably more likely to grade for higher quality and effort rather than conservatives.

The obvious theme of my post is to state the the whole point of those who worry about instructor "opinion" indoctrination is that the student doesn't realize it is happening. And that is why hounddog's citing your age is, indeed, important.
It would take a sprawling assumption to conclude that most students, due to age, aren't paying attention to attempts at indoctrination. Then of course you have to argue that indoctrination, to whatever extent, is occuring all of the time.

What you guys are doing is playing "The Age Card." It's like a get out of jail free card except the jail...is an arguement! It's a common fallacy. I forgive you guys though; it sounds like you didn't really think all that book-learnin' was really useful 'cause it wasn't what yer pappy taught ya. Sorry but I am sick and tired of conservatives trying tearing into educators every chance they get.

Just the other day my cousin informed me that she knew how to be a mother, she'd completed all of her parenting classes, aced all of her psych tests, and read several books. She doesnt have any kids. However she is going to adopt 3 kids, and she and her husband are going to be GREAT parents because they have read, and been taught how to be a parent.

Rue, I don't know if she didn't learn or apply what she learned to her life but that doesn't found an arguement against parenting classes. Ironically MY cousin took parenting classes and applies many of those principles to this day with her two children. They are very well behaved! Maybe some schools' curricula are lacking in that area so it may not be entirely her fault but this is pretty well documented science. I know that some things are going to be enhanced through experience, but a lot of what is out there is in history somewhere in one form or another.

[1042 Trooper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o762HKxYMeA&eurl

:D:D

[JLR80]

I think the post deviated from it's original purpose. Everyone has a bias or a preference, at least politically. I teach high school and I can assure you that some teachers do share (some even go farther an proselytize) their political opinions with students, but it's WAAAYYY worse at the college level. I don't think high school teachers should share their personal opinions with students on controversial matters, including politics but that's just me.

Merely having a picture of the President in your room is hardly proselytizing any political ideology. Most school boards have policies that do not allow teachers to impose their own beliefs and ideologies upon students. If the teacher was trying to "force" or encourage students to support Bush, Republicans, etc. that's a different story. I have a picture of the Nazi swastika in my room that hangs up for one week each year, but I use it as part of a Sociology lesson on symbols and hatred. I certainly don't endorse or encourage students to become skin heads or neo-Nazis nor do I find any value in the whole Nazi ideology. See my point? :D

[ThikBluLine]

"My liberal teachers didn't bring their causes to school; they brought their chalk, notes, and passion like any other good teacher would. The closest thing that came it was a teacher's advice for me not to go into the USMC. He had seen his students die in wars before; not quite something I could blame him for."

Djack, call me cynical and suspicious, but how old is this teacher who claims to have "seen his students die in wars before". Unless he has been teaching since the late sixties/early seventies (Vietnam era), he is lying or exagerating. It is not likely that a younger teacher has seen multiple students die in "wars."

If he is in fact lying about this, consider that he has lied about other liberal causes that he has propagandized to his students.

[djack16]

"My liberal teachers didn't bring their causes to school; they brought their chalk, notes, and passion like any other good teacher would. The closest thing that came it was a teacher's advice for me not to go into the USMC. He had seen his students die in wars before; not quite something I could blame him for."

Djack, call me cynical and suspicious, but how old is this teacher who claims to have "seen his students die in wars before". Unless he has been teaching since the late sixties/early seventies (Vietnam era), he is lying or exagerating. It is not likely that a younger teacher has seen multiple students die in "wars."

If he is in fact lying about this, consider that he has lied about other liberal causes that he has propagandized to his students.
You are cynical and suspicious.

The teacher was in his late sixties I do believe. He was an old guy; something that served as ammo for his self-deprecating humor.

The liklihood of him lying is so low as not to be a concern. You are just another conservative conspiracy theorist :D :cool: .

[Ex Army MP]

"They fight to get the Ten Commandments taken out of school- something on which this country's ideal and laws were founded; "

Hounddog, I'm not looking to pick a fight with you but djack is 100% correct when he says this statement is bogus. We discussed this ad naseum in law school. It is not a crime to covet your neighbor's wife, to not honor your mother and father or to commit adultery. It's true that murder and stealing are crimes. However, if all of us landed on an island tomorrow and decided to start a society and make it totally secular, we'd still have to outlaw murder and stealing when writing our laws. For if we allowed murder then there would be no guarentees that our own lives wouldn't be at stake. Therefore, a society cannot function without such a law. same goes with stealing.

[Centurion44]

I'm a huge proponent of seperation of church and state. That being said, many laws were and are based on the 10 comandments.

You shall have no other gods before Me.
Just as "In God We Trust" is on all our currency since the 1860s, and "One Nation Under God" was added to the pledge of alligence a few years later. Although as far as I know, worshiping anything other than God is still technically not a crime. I'll give you that one.

You shall not make for yourself any graven image (idol)...
Written in the same spirit as above. So, I'll give you this one, also.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain...
Although we are protected under free speech, there are many local laws that prohibit speech that may be offensive to minors or that would cause a breach of the peace. Certainly, me taking the Lord's name in vain in the middle of Sunday mass would certainly cause such a breach, and probably land me in the slammer.

Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy...
In many states, like mine, it's illegal to purchase alcohol on Sunday. For no other reason than this commandments. Similar "blue laws" exist all over the nation.

Honor your father and your mother...
In my state, there is a charge called "Unruly child" which is basically a breach of this commandment.

You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
These are all crimes in my state. Yes, even adultry.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Now, if I go to court and swear to a judge and jury that I saw my "neighbor" doing something he didn't do, then I'm guilty of purgery.

You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
Well, I can't find a good arguement for this since we already covered adultry. So I'll give you this one as well.

7 out of 10 ain't bad. Or good. However you want to look at it.

[Ex Army MP]

I'm a huge proponent of seperation of church and state. That being said, many laws were and are based on the 10 comandments.

You shall have no other gods before Me.
Just as "In God We Trust" is on all our currency since the 1860s, and "One Nation Under God" was added to the pledge of alligence a few years later. Although as far as I know, worshiping anything other than God is still technically not a crime. I'll give you that one.

You shall not make for yourself any graven image (idol)...
Written in the same spirit as above. So, I'll give you this one, also.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain...
Although we are protected under free speech, there are many local laws that prohibit speech that may be offensive to minors or that would cause a breach of the peace. Certainly, me taking the Lord's name in vain in the middle of Sunday mass would certainly cause such a breach, and probably land me in the slammer.

Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy...
In many states, like mine, it's illegal to purchase alcohol on Sunday. For no other reason than this commandments. Similar "blue laws" exist all over the nation.

Honor your father and your mother...
In my state, there is a charge called "Unruly child" which is basically a breach of this commandment.

You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
These are all crimes in my state. Yes, even adultry.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Now, if I go to court and swear to a judge and jury that I saw my "neighbor" doing something he didn't do, then I'm guilty of purgery.

You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
Well, I can't find a good arguement for this since we already covered adultry. So I'll give you this one as well.

7 out of 10 ain't bad. Or good. However you want to look at it.

These are quite a stretch, my friend.

First, the breach of peace that you cited has nothing to do with taking the Lord's name in vain. If one were to cause a ruckus in church or anywhere for that matter; or if one were to yell fu(k from the top of his lungs while running down the street, one could still be arrested. Again, nothing to do with this comandment.

Next, the unruly child law is more than likely designed for children who are so out of hand that they are causing a breach of the peace. I doubt a child goes to jail for saying to his friend " hey, my parents are *********s".

Lastly, lying is not a crime. This comandment speaks only to lying. Perjury is entirely different as it is lying under oath. I'd venture to guess that this is a crime because allowing witnesses to lie under oath without consequences would make for an inefficient justice system. Again, not a comandment issue otherwise we'd simply prohibit all lying.

Now, you do have some vaild points with the blue laws and with adultry. However, you know as well as I do that adultry is not a crimei n most states and rarely prosecuted in the places where it is a crime. Blue laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Remember, the argument was that OUR laws, meaning the laws of all 50 states, were based on the 10 comandments.

So again, we are left with murder and stealing. As I stated before, if we were starting a new society and never even heard of the bible, these two would have to be among our new laws for obvious reasons which have nothing to do with religion.

[Chief Wiggum]

I'm a huge proponent of seperation of church and state. That being said, many laws were and are based on the 10 comandments.

You shall have no other gods before Me.
Just as "In God We Trust" is on all our currency since the 1860s, and "One Nation Under God" was added to the pledge of alligence a few years later. Although as far as I know, worshiping anything other than God is still technically not a crime. I'll give you that one.

You shall not make for yourself any graven image (idol)...
Written in the same spirit as above. So, I'll give you this one, also.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain...
Although we are protected under free speech, there are many local laws that prohibit speech that may be offensive to minors or that would cause a breach of the peace. Certainly, me taking the Lord's name in vain in the middle of Sunday mass would certainly cause such a breach, and probably land me in the slammer.

Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy...
In many states, like mine, it's illegal to purchase alcohol on Sunday. For no other reason than this commandments. Similar "blue laws" exist all over the nation.

Honor your father and your mother...
In my state, there is a charge called "Unruly child" which is basically a breach of this commandment.

You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
These are all crimes in my state. Yes, even adultry.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Now, if I go to court and swear to a judge and jury that I saw my "neighbor" doing something he didn't do, then I'm guilty of purgery.

You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
Well, I can't find a good arguement for this since we already covered adultry. So I'll give you this one as well.

7 out of 10 ain't bad. Or good. However you want to look at it.

The simple fact that some current laws line up with (barely) some of the 10 commandments does not mean that they were the source. Are there any countries where murder and theft aren't outlawed?