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View Full Version : Should Jailers In Ga Be Fire Armed Certified.



pateshane
07-04-2005, 11:59 AM
In Ga A Jail Officer Has To Be Sent To Jailer School With In Six Months After He Or She Has Been Hired . Currenty The Basic Jailer Program Offers No Fire Arms Training. I Just Wanted Some Feed Back On This Topic .

rpd_0016
07-04-2005, 12:57 PM
I'm assuming it is commonplace at every agency in the country that guns are not allowed inside correctional facilities. I have never seen a jail that did not require officers to lock up their guns in lockboxes prior to entering the facility. Any jail that permits officers to retain their weapons while inside a jail is asking for very serious trouble. Therefore, I personally don't see the need for jailers to be trained in firearms. I think that more class time focusing on defensive tactics, verbal direction, security principles, and the use of restraints would be much more beneficial to jailers than learing how to use a weapon that they wont ever be allowed to have at work. I don't know what the situation in Georgia is but I can't see where any jailer would need to have firearms training.

Norm357
07-04-2005, 01:00 PM
Should Jailers In Ga Be Fire Armed Certified.

Most are. Whats your beef?

Centurion44
07-04-2005, 02:00 PM
No, they shouldn't. But that doesn't stop some from going out and buying a badge before they are police certified and doing just that, unfortunately.

Bodie
07-04-2005, 02:01 PM
Corrections Officers (JAILERS) in Ohio working county jails need just the basic corrections officer course and can't carry off duty or on so firearms certifiaction is a moot issue here. Who ya gonna shhot in the jail ?

They might apply for a CCW permit thru the Sheriff's Office but it is likely it would be denied so that way a jailer isn't out playing cop.

pateshane
07-04-2005, 02:24 PM
Yes Any Body Can Go Out And Purchase A Fake Police Badge . But If That Individual Were To Flash It He Or She Would Be Inpersonating A Officer . Now If A Department Gives A Officer A Badge And I.d. With Title And Rank And If That Individual Represents Him Or Her As That Title Then That Is Not Inpersonating A Officer . The Bibb County Sheriff Office In Macon Ga Issues Take Home Weapons To Jailers As Long As The Jailer Can Post Qualify With The Service Weapon. Bibb County Jailers Can Carry On And Off Duty . They Have A Gun Locker At The Jail To Secure The Weapon Before They Begin Their Shift. Certified Jailers ,detention Officers , And Corrections Officers Are Exempt Under 16-11-30 Of The Ga Code Theese Officers May Carry With Out A Permit To Carry Concealed And They Have The Same Carry Powers As A Certified Law Enforcement Officer. I GUESS CENTURION 44 WAS NOT PAYING ATTENTION IN MANDATE SCHOOL

ftlaudcop
07-04-2005, 02:33 PM
in ref to: firearms....

all l.e.o's in fla can carry ccf / ccw w/o permit

state corrections officers are licensed and bonded for their 8
hour shift and anytime they are on duty

sheriff's can license or bond 24 hr's all deputies and special deputies
and give them arrest power. and that varies county to county.

georgia is a bit strange, no one carry's a fire ar in jail , they probably
meant for transport to...medical offices, hospital's, court, prisons....

www.schackdaddy.com

pateshane
07-04-2005, 02:38 PM
Of Course You Can Not Take A Gun Past Guard Lines That Being Said Their Is A Assigned Area To Secure The Weapon Before You Enter The Detention Side Of The Jail.

Norm357
07-05-2005, 11:55 AM
There seems to be some confusion on some posters part about GA law and COs and firearms. In GA, Jailers, COs, etc, are excempt from state CCW laws and can carry on creds. I will be glad to post relavent GA code if anyone is interested.

With that said, any jailer playing wannabe cop is libable to get his *** in deep ka ka.

Norm

GCPD0171
07-05-2005, 12:42 PM
If part of the jailers duties were to transport prisoners outside the facilities then they should be armed. Proper training should take place before that is allowed.

Bodie
07-05-2005, 02:28 PM
The problem in Ohio is each SHERIFF can set his own rules and deny CCW permits to his jail guards. 88 Sheriffs 88 opinions. Should a jail guard be able to get a CCW permit yes I think so but my title isn't SHERIFF.r

Some can get them depending on thier Sheriff some will not
Does that explain it better ?

Centurion44
07-05-2005, 03:34 PM
There is just a line at the jail? Wow, you guys got some pretty honest criminals. We have a double set of interlocked security doors.

You laugh. Inside a housing unit in Gwinnett the only thing that seperates the deputy from 120 inmates of varying security levels is a red line painted on the floor.

That being said, any deputy that transports an inmate or works any other armed post is POST (Police) certified.

Centurion44
07-05-2005, 06:23 PM
That was a problem with Gwinnett SO for a while. It's now their policy that non-certified deputies must change into uniform after coming to work. The first year I worked their I had to get to work 20 min early so I could change into my uniform.

Bodie
07-06-2005, 10:01 AM
We have jailers working dorms one officer with 100 inmates.

Trooper4985
07-06-2005, 06:56 PM
In Ga A Jail Officer Has To Be Sent To Jailer School With In Six Months After He Or She Has Been Hired . Currenty The Basic Jailer Program Offers No Fire Arms Training. I Just Wanted Some Feed Back On This Topic .

Are you the same moron who has posted with 2 or 3 other names (pbunn being 1) who can't figure out that you don't capitalize the first letter of every word.

Why would you need any firearms training since you don't have guns in jail? Doesn't sound very safe to me.

ftlaudcop
07-06-2005, 08:27 PM
firearms training has to do with...

transporting prisoners to court
outside building security
prison runs
doctor appointments

are ya gonna have a road deputy do this..?

ga must be a backwards state...

pateshane
07-06-2005, 09:00 PM
Their Are A Lot Of Law Enforcement Certified Officers In The State Of Ga Who Look Down On Corrections And Jail Officers . God Forbid You Give A Jailer A Gun He Will Just Run Out And Play Cop . The Work That Correction Officers And Jailers Do Is Very Dangerous. I Think That Correction Officers And Jailers Should Have The Proper Training To Protect Themselves . It Is Not Fair To Expect Them To Enforce Facility Rules And Discipline Inmates Knowing That They Have Made Many Enemies In The Performance Of Their Duties . I Guess When Shift Is Over And Your On Your Way Home You Are On Your Own , Wait A Minute You Can Always Call The Real Police .

ChrisF202
07-06-2005, 11:11 PM
firearms training has to do with...

transporting prisoners to court
outside building security
prison runs
doctor appointments

are ya gonna have a road deputy do this..?

ga must be a backwards state...
Most NY counties use deputies for that rather then CO's.

Centurion44
07-07-2005, 12:31 AM
Their Are A Lot Of Law Enforcement Certified Officers In The State Of Ga Who Look Down On Corrections And Jail Officers .

I put my time in as a Jailer. I worked hard, busted ***, and got into the academy and became a certified deputy. Why should anyone else be treated any differently?


God Forbid You Give A Jailer A Gun He Will Just Run Out And Play Cop .

Yes, they have before in the past. Like I said I've been both Jailer and Police certified. I've been on both sides of the fence. If you don't go through the police training with your weapon that POST mandates you shouldn't carry one. You want to carry a weapon? Get police certfied. Can't get police certified? Then what makes you think you should carry a weapon? I worked late, trained hard, studied long, and lost a lot of sleep to get where I'm at in law enforcement. To hand those same responsibilities over to someone who simply doesn't have the determination I did to get where I'm at is irresponsible, not to mention insulting.


The Work That Correction Officers And Jailers Do Is Very Dangerous.

Enter a house where you've been told a man with gun is holed up and tell me again how 'dangerous' being a jailer is. Yes, being a jailer is dangerous. But a jailer inside a jail has the element of control and the ability to call back up which is just seconds away. Same scenerio with a person armed above- now picture your back-up is 10 to 30 minutes away. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of being a jailer. I was a jailer for 2 and a half years. I don't regret it one bit. I got a lot of good experience. But don't blame me because I got to a level in my career where you couldn't. I did nothing that you couldn't have done on your own.


I Think That Correction Officers And Jailers Should Have The Proper Training To Protect Themselves .

If you worked at Gwinnett County SO like you claim then you had the opprotunity. You still do. It's my understanding that HOPE will pay for your academy training if you're willing.


It Is Not Fair To Expect Them To Enforce Facility Rules And Discipline Inmates Knowing That They Have Made Many Enemies In The Performance Of Their Duties .

If you made more enemies than friends while working in the jail then that's because you have bad 'people' skills. I had two inmates in a pod of about 50 inmates break out into a fight. My radio went dead. Who helped me break up the fight? Another inmate. Why? Because I treated him like a human being and not a piece of trash. My kindness toward this one person probably saved me my life, or at least serious injury. Again, don't blame those of us that use our training and life experience because you failed in some other area.


I Guess When Shift Is Over And Your On Your Way Home You Are On Your Own , Wait A Minute You Can Always Call The Real Police .

As a person who has worked as Security Guard, Loss Prevention, Deputy Jailer, Sheriff's Deputy, and Police Officer, I can say this: I will never treat a fellow officer's call for help lightly. I don't care if you're a mall security guard or the chief of police. And I expect the same in return. Of course, I guess I won't always get it, judging from the tone of your replies.

Before you start bitching about where all this "distain" for people in your profession comes from, think to consider it may not be people in your line of work so much as it is you. You carry a lot of anger in your thought process, which in turn will bring out the same in others. I just hope you realize this before you get hurt, or get someone else hurt.

pateshane
07-07-2005, 01:36 AM
I Think You And I Got Off On Thr Wrong Foot . I Respect You For Working Hard And Obtaining Your Goals No Descent Person Can Feel Other Wise . You And I Share One Thing In Common We Both Worked For A Dam Good Sheriffs Office At One Time . Yes I Am Bitter About What Happened To Me But That Is Not Affecting My Judgment . I Will Come To The Aid Of Any Body That Is Trouble Including Your Self . You Are Right No One Can Compare Working In A Jail To Working On The Streets Especially Not Gwinnett County Jail That Place Is A Ramada Inn Compared To The State Prison I Used To Work Inn . And I Have Always Treated Inmates Fair But Sometimes Their Are Certain Circumstances That Are Out Of Our Hands You Worked At Gwinnett County Not Every Jailer Or Co Has A Kck *** Rapid Response Team To Depend On Try Running A Block Open Bay With A 150 Convicted Murders And Rapist With Out The Possobility Of Parole And All You Have Is A Dam Flash Light At Least You Have A Gun Out There . Beleive You Can Die Just As Quick In That Place . Trust Me I Dont Beleive No Body Deserves A Free Ride But Like I Said If You Are Doing Your Job Right Then You Are Saying No A Whole Lot More Then Yes But That Does Not Mean You Are Abuseing The Inmates In Your Control . In My Opinion Any Body That Works In A Correctional Setting Needs To Be Properly Trained With A Fire Arm Just In Case A Former Inmate Wants To Settle A Score Trust Me He Want Play By The Rules . As For The Comment I Made About The Double Standard Between Corrections And Law Enforcement It Is Very Real I Know Plenty Of Police Offices Who Refer To Correction Officers As Nothing More Then Security Guards Now My Friend That Is A Insult .

Centurion44
07-07-2005, 01:52 AM
Well, pateshane, don't worry about it too much. I work for a city agency and there are county and state police officers that look down on us for being a city agency. So there's no getting away from those kinds of people. I just simply don't give a rat's behind what people think of me. I'm a professional at my chosen career and I'll do my job and look professional doing it.

I know being a CO has got to be a tough gig. I couldn't do it, I'll be the first one to admit it. I'm not going to pretend to know what kind of world you live in. Likewise, don't pretend to know my world. We both just got to be professionals in our jobs.

I had a wise bird at Gwinnett SO tell me this: It doesn't matter who you like or who you hate in law enforcment. The only thing that matters is whether or not you'd go into a house with that person.

As for the topic at hand, I thought GA COs did carry firearms on certain details (such as transport)? If that's not the case, then yes, it should be.
If you mean they should carry them inside a corrections facility, they most certainly should not. If you mean they should be allowed to carry them off-duty then that's a matter of going to your local probate court and getting a Firearms license.

pateshane
07-07-2005, 02:12 AM
Take A Look At Ga Code Exemptions 16 - 11 - 130 Any Individual Who Falls Under Keeper Of The Jail Title Wardens , Correction Officers , Jailers And Detention Officers Are Exempt From 16 -11 -126 Through 128 . Also Theese Officers Have The Same Carry Powers As Peace Officers . Remember When You Were Sworn As A Jailer You Sworn As A Keeper Of The Jail . Corrections Officers By Law Are Peace Officers And Must Qualify Annualy With A Service Weapon . I Dont Know If You Have Had Any Dealings With Gwinnett County Corrections But Their Officers Have Take Home Weapons . And You Could Not Pay Me Enough To Bring A Gun In Jail Or Prison . We Had A Guy Do That At Gwinnett County His Sevice Weapon Was In His Book Bag At His Desk The Whole Time He Was In The Unit Doing Security Checks And Much More.

horne80
07-07-2005, 07:38 AM
You spend a lot of time on that shift key don't ya buddy heh. You are purposefully doing that too.. odd.

x5150x
07-07-2005, 03:23 PM
... I personally don't see the need for jailers to be trained in firearms.

...but I can't see where any jailer would need to have firearms training.


If you work in a jail you will eventually **** someone off. That someone might get out one day and you might meet him while walking down the street with your family. If the "jailers" have the proper training then why not let them carry?

Trooper4985
07-07-2005, 03:25 PM
How about this... if the jail doesn't allow you to carry on your 'shield'... apply for a carry permit. It's Georgia... doesn't everyone down there have a shotgun in the rear window of their beatup pickup anyway? :D

PhilipCal
07-07-2005, 03:31 PM
Why not? This is one of those threads were no one is really wrong. Most southern states grant jailors the right to carry firearms. As noted, each Sheriff, Chief of Police dictates policy for his/her agency.Personally, I see no reason why a jailor can't be armed going or coming from work, or off-duty. We'll presume that jailor is prepared to act responsibly in the same manner as any off-duty officer.I'm presuming of course, that this jailor has passed the same handgun qualification course required of all officers on the dept.

Norm357
07-07-2005, 08:07 PM
How about this... if the jail doesn't allow you to carry on your 'shield'... apply for a carry permit. It's Georgia... doesn't everyone down there have a shotgun in the rear window of their beatup pickup anyway? :D


Ok last time, In GA, Jailers, COs, etc, do not need a permit to carry off duty. By GA code they can carry on their creds. Dont make me say this again. :D

jnojr
07-07-2005, 08:55 PM
There is just a line at the jail? Wow, you guys got some pretty honest criminals.

Ever seen "Support Your Local Sheriff"? :D

For what it's worth, in California COs are "peace officers" who are entitled to carry off-duty with their department credentials. I'm making my way through the hiring process for the San Diego County Sheriffs Department to start out as a Detentions / Courts Deputy. Said deputies are actually issued a sidearm (Glock 22 for anyone who cares). Seems to me that it would be a big headache when you're on-duty... do I wander around inside with an empty holster?

Someone who's been with the department several years told me that they used to get issued sidearms (S&W .357 Magnums) only when transporting prisoners. I'm guessing that they carry all the time except inside the jails now.

Centurion44
07-08-2005, 01:36 AM
Ok last time, In GA, Jailers, COs, etc, do not need a permit to carry off duty. By GA code they can carry on their creds. Dont make me say this again. :D


So what, exactly, is the question and/or problem?

Welpe
07-08-2005, 02:56 AM
So what, exactly, is the question and/or problem?

I guess it's down to capitalization/grammar issues. :confused:

Norm357
07-08-2005, 08:43 AM
So what, exactly, is the question and/or problem?


I think patesahwn was upset because he thought that he couldnt carry off duty.? I kind of got lost in the confusion myself. :confused: :D

Norm357
07-08-2005, 08:44 AM
I guess it's down the capitalization/grammar issues. :confused:


ROFLMAO :D

Trooper4985
07-08-2005, 08:48 AM
Ok last time, In GA, Jailers, COs, etc, do not need a permit to carry off duty. By GA code they can carry on their creds. Dont make me say this again. :D

Sorry... 27 hours of OT and a little too much beer. I work OT to buy beer to help me sleep so I can work more OT to buy more beer to help me sleep.... :D

ftlaudcop
07-08-2005, 09:34 AM
my sheriff is in the process, kickin out the road patrol out of the main
court house, mainly because they don't know how to fill out paper work,
leaving security doors open, to old or to fat to duke it out in the court house with guys that just got sentenced to life.
our jail deputies will run the entire show within a yr or so.
most do everything road patrol does except write tickets..traffic...

different states, different situations....

our road patrol is 50% former jail deputies ( 1200 )
our jail deputies do hurricane duty,,,schools and shelters
w/o any problems......

if their are problems...it's the agency's for allowing it.....

Norm357
07-08-2005, 02:32 PM
Sorry... 27 hours of OT and a little too much beer. I work OT to buy beer to help me sleep so I can work more OT to buy more beer to help me sleep.... :D

That my friend is a vicious cycle. :D

GoGOGadget... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Groundhog
07-08-2005, 06:02 PM
How about this... if the jail doesn't allow you to carry on your 'shield'... apply for a carry permit. It's Georgia... doesn't everyone down there have a shotgun in the rear window of their beatup pickup anyway? :D

No, nowadays we have AR-15's in the visor mounts of our SUV's. The Dukes of Hazzard went off the air a long time ago. :D


Sorry... 27 hours of OT and a little too much beer. I work OT to buy beer to help me sleep so I can work more OT to buy more beer to help me sleep....

You are now an honorary Georgian. :D

Groundhog
07-08-2005, 06:58 PM
You know Cooter used to be a state senator here. :D He had a little shop set up about 30 miles from here and every year they would have a Dukes of Hazzard celebration. It was pretty wild seeing General Lee's driving all over the place.

Ben Jones was a Democratic congressman here in Georgia's old 4th district until the legislature redistricted him out....folks in his new district were a little wary of his liberal politics and voted him out. He now runs some kind of tourist trap called "Cooter's Place" in Gatlinburg, TN. I think he sells overalls, corncob pipes, and little "General Lee" models. :)

SO535
07-08-2005, 08:35 PM
If the jailer has a problem with the department regulation on things which keep them from acting/looking like a LEO; I have the solution. GET CERTIFIED!
I work for the department pateshane is referring to/used to work for. All you have to do to get on the academy list is pass the physical agility test. New hires who immediately take the test go to the next academy. The only thing keeping jailers back is their lack of bieng able to meet GA POST requirements foe Peace Officer. I am in the academy now because I can meet those requirements. I am one of the newer guys on the shift but I am going before A LOT of others.

Bodie
07-08-2005, 09:05 PM
You can get CERTIFIED as a Corrections Officer working in a county jail in Ohio and your Sheriff still will forbid you from carrying a gun your duties are limited to being a Corrections Officer while on the clock only so getting cetified will do no good since your certifiaction will expire just like any civilian that does not have a leo position within the required time frame.
Your Sheriff will also not allow you to take a part time police position elsewhere etc.

SO535
07-08-2005, 09:19 PM
No, we are Deputy Sheriff. Deputies not certified as "Peace Officer" are cetified as "Jailer." Most commonly referred to as Deputy I (jailer) and Deputy II (Peace Officer). We run a pre-trial facility, not a correctional facility.

creeder_03
07-09-2005, 04:23 PM
If your really that pumped up to carry a gun. Go down to G.P.S.T.C and take the three or four day outside detail class. You qualify with a pistol and shotgun. Then you can run the inmate road crew.

Centurion44
07-10-2005, 08:46 AM
I work for the department pateshane is referring to/used to work for. All you have to do to get on the academy list is pass the physical agility test. New hires who immediately take the test go to the next academy.

Gotta love the new SO. And here I had to wait almost a year and half. People before me bitched about having to wait 3 years. Good to know things are changing over there- being stuck in a pod for years at a clip is unnerving.

sha4433
07-14-2005, 10:52 AM
Corrections Officers (JAILERS) in Ohio working county jails need just the basic corrections officer course and can't carry off duty or on so firearms certifiaction is a moot issue here. Who ya gonna shhot in the jail ?

They might apply for a CCW permit thru the Sheriff's Office but it is likely it would be denied so that way a jailer isn't out playing cop.

Sounds to me like that is a messed up state. I have worked in a jail and on the street. I always carried my issued firearm on and off-duty. When you work in a jail, you deal with the same ****bags you do in patrol. The only difference is that when they are in jail, they are not drunk or on drugs, they get to see you in good light and for 10 hours or more a day, for days or months at a time. They will recognize you on the street. If they had a beef with you inside, they are much more likely to cause an issue on the street.

After about 18 months in the jail, there weren't many places I could go without running into someone I had dealt with at work.

As far as the officer getting into stuff off-duty goes, the guidelines are the same as for any officer. Don't get involved unless it is a life-threatening situation. If the person has such poor judgement as to cause a clusterf*$^ off-duty then they shouldn't be able to work in a jail any more that the street.

sha4433
07-14-2005, 11:03 AM
I'm assuming it is commonplace at every agency in the country that guns are not allowed inside correctional facilities. I have never seen a jail that did not require officers to lock up their guns in lockboxes prior to entering the facility. Any jail that permits officers to retain their weapons while inside a jail is asking for very serious trouble. Therefore, I personally don't see the need for jailers to be trained in firearms. I think that more class time focusing on defensive tactics, verbal direction, security principles, and the use of restraints would be much more beneficial to jailers than learing how to use a weapon that they wont ever be allowed to have at work. I don't know what the situation in Georgia is but I can't see where any jailer would need to have firearms training.

Hold on! The POST requirements are the same in all these areas for patrol and detention. In my state we shoot the same firearms course and have the same arrest techniques. You deal with the same level of danger and the same exact people. The standards are the same.

Have you ever worked in a jail?

pateshane
08-13-2005, 09:25 AM
Thanks For All The Feed Back Concerning This Issue .