Police!! Public Enemy Number 1

[HCSO511]

i have been watching carefully and have mad ena observation in l.e. that seems to be the coming standard and i thought i would fish for your opinions.
it seems in smaller towns, 25000, and below especially, that when an officer gets a complaint the officer is wrong. no matter the situation, your the bad guy. in really small departments such as 4 man to 30 man its seems to be the worst. you stop someone for running a stop sign and even have some heart and write a ticket and they come complain about you bothering them. and then the mayor or council member or chief or whoever is mad at you. not because you actualy did wrong but because your their common problem. the person is mad because you bothered them and the official is mad because they are being bothered because of you. then you get chewed out. i am bringing this up because i got complained on for setting up on a stop sign after dark watching for someone to run it. well someone did and i just wrote them a warning. well they came to complain to the mayor who had told us about the complaints of people running the stop sign in the first place. the complaint wasnt me stopping them, they agreed that they did run the sign and all that was ok. the complaint was that i didnt have my headlights on when i was watching the stop sign. now i was parked on the side of a residential street blacked out like any other parked car. my unit is slick top with no markings. the mayor said it was decietful for me to lull people into a false security like that by them thinking no one is around. so is he saying the message should be obey the law if there are police around but otherwise do as you please? my mayor was completely ****ed that i was set up on a stop sign with no lights on. what did he think i was going to do when he asked me to set up on the sign?

its not just this instance im referring to, this is my only time to be complained on for doing what i do that i actually got talked to about it. ive been wrong before when i was new and gotten some complaints where i actually was wrong and of course someone talked to me about that, but nothing ever serious enough for suspension or anything, just simple learning mistakes. it seems to be getting common that if there is a complaint no matter the cause or what happened, the officer is wrong. anyone else got stories like this? i have been talking to other area officers and they are getting this kind of micromanagment from officials outside the department. they write a ticket and if there is a complaint they are wrong no matter what. people who dont work in this profession think whatever a cop does if someone doesnt like it the cop is wrong. is the message l.e. only goes for those who let it happen without complaining?

[Dash]

He actually said you lulled someone into a false sense of security?

What a moron..

I don't think I've ever had my lights on when sitting at a 4 way..

Maybe you should look at a different town or maybe county?

That's absolutely rediculous.

[dentndude2]

I know some states prohibit the slick top, no markings squad car kind of thing. Thank God Texas is not one of them and I guess Oklahoma is not either. We actually have it written into our Penal Code that simply affording someone the opportunity to commit an offense is not entrapment. I think that is what your mayor is basically saying you did, committed entrapment.

I have been talked to about how I talk to folks. I should preface this with my working for a small agency (40 officers) and it's incredibly charged politically (university)! If I yell at anyone, I end up getting talked to. Nevermind that the person obviously wouldn't have understood anything else but I have this awful temper apparantly. It would almost seem like I am on the verge of going postal the way the admins always have me talked to. Yet, this has only happened on 4 occasions in 2 years. Considering my level of activity, this is actually pretty good. I usually use the super Mr. Nice Guy approach, which usually works well but there are times it just doesn't....and I usually end up getting hammered for it.

So that is my bit that I get. Seems like your mayor wants traffic enforcement as far as visibility goes. He wants citizens to SEE that is it taking place. He doesn't want true traffic enforcement, just the appearance of it. That's my interpretation anyway.

[GrayW4442]

Dont feel like this happens in small cities it happens in large ones also. People love to call IAB and complain on you. The only difference is the department has over 3000 officers and most complaints are sent back to the precinct to be handled by the shift LT. The ones IAB does handle are almost always dropped. Now dont get me wrong some officers deserve to be complained on, (you all know the ones i'm talking about, the one that you try to hurry up and make scene so you can disregard them so no **** wont be started) and overall IAB is not real heavy handed when it comes to handling complaints. Memphis is a rough city and the Police are allowed to use rough tactics in policing. :cool: And no I wont go into detail on that but you can use your imagination. The only rule we have is dont get caught on tape.

[retired]

[QUOTE=The only rule we have is dont get caught on tape.[/QUOTE]


The rule I had was not only don't get caught on tape, but don't do anything on or off tape that is wrong. :) :) Be professional! :)

[GrayW4442]

The rule I had was not only don't get caught on tape, but don't do anything on or off tape that is wrong. :) :) Be professional! :)


I'm always professional in my conduct, or at least I act a professionally as my peers. :cool: I believe you were making an attempt to question how I or my Department police, but I will ignore that and say, "have a good day Retired." :D

[SFairman]

I work for a VERY small Police Dept in NC. The Chief and I are the only two fulltime officers, we have some part-time and reserves (non-paid fully sworn). I have received multiple complaints for just doing my job. In all of my complaints they have never said I was anything other than polite and professional. They all admit they were in the wrong when they were stopped, but yet they complain anyway. The common line is that I was harassing them. The officer before me lost his job over this B.S. (forced to resign). We don't have any recourse if the Town Council says we have to go. It finally reached a point that I was told to "stay off the radar if I like my career." At this point I had already been hired by another agency, but just waiting for my start date. So now I just sit in the office playing on the computer and drive around every so often. I take my calls and help out the Sheriff's Office when I can. I haven't made a traffic stop since that day. I asked the Chief on Friday if I could go out and "work" (proactive police work) as long as I was careful not to upset the residents, the Chief said no just keep on doing what your doing (which means nothing). As a matter of fact I am on the clock right now. This is what I have been reduced to doing. Only 3 days left until I'm gone.

[Chief Wiggum]

i have been watching carefully and have mad ena observation in l.e. that seems to be the coming standard and i thought i would fish for your opinions.
it seems in smaller towns, 25000, and below especially, that when an officer gets a complaint the officer is wrong. no matter the situation, your the bad guy. in really small departments such as 4 man to 30 man its seems to be the worst. you stop someone for running a stop sign and even have some heart and write a ticket and they come complain about you bothering them. and then the mayor or council member or chief or whoever is mad at you. not because you actualy did wrong but because your their common problem. the person is mad because you bothered them and the official is mad because they are being bothered because of you. then you get chewed out. i am bringing this up because i got complained on for setting up on a stop sign after dark watching for someone to run it. well someone did and i just wrote them a warning. well they came to complain to the mayor who had told us about the complaints of people running the stop sign in the first place. the complaint wasnt me stopping them, they agreed that they did run the sign and all that was ok. the complaint was that i didnt have my headlights on when i was watching the stop sign. now i was parked on the side of a residential street blacked out like any other parked car. my unit is slick top with no markings. the mayor said it was decietful for me to lull people into a false security like that by them thinking no one is around. so is he saying the message should be obey the law if there are police around but otherwise do as you please? my mayor was completely ****ed that i was set up on a stop sign with no lights on. what did he think i was going to do when he asked me to set up on the sign?

its not just this instance im referring to, this is my only time to be complained on for doing what i do that i actually got talked to about it. ive been wrong before when i was new and gotten some complaints where i actually was wrong and of course someone talked to me about that, but nothing ever serious enough for suspension or anything, just simple learning mistakes. it seems to be getting common that if there is a complaint no matter the cause or what happened, the officer is wrong. anyone else got stories like this? i have been talking to other area officers and they are getting this kind of micromanagment from officials outside the department. they write a ticket and if there is a complaint they are wrong no matter what. people who dont work in this profession think whatever a cop does if someone doesnt like it the cop is wrong. is the message l.e. only goes for those who let it happen without complaining?

IMHO you need to leave this dept as fast as you can. There are plenty of agencies out there that will support their officers.

[Washingtonian]

If they don't want you to do your job, find a nice shady place to sit and do a crossword puzzle, eat a long lunch, and read a book.

[connor]

I'm in a department of 90 officers in a town of 50,000.

I've found if a complaint goes to IA the cop is presumed guilty. The outcomes are exonerated, sustained, or insufficient evidence. That last one is a common finding meaning you can't prove or disprove the cop did it. In criminal court that would called innocent (or exonerated in our lingo). But in internal affairs it means we think you did it but we can't prove it. And it sits in your record as a black mark because it only takes a few of these before they nail you anyway.

Now I must admit it also depends on the internal affairs investigator. We only have one at a given time and in my nine years I've now seen 4 different ones. The first one who did it for the first five years lived for busting cops, all cops are dirty in his mind, and he would make up crap if he couldn't get you. The second was fair to a point but he was so out of touch with the reality of police work (he only did about five years on the street and those were over 20 years ago) that he tended to have a mindset that cops were guilty. The third was retired on duty and you would be hard pressed to get him to do anything. The current one I've no experience with.

[TheMdntRdr]

Ah, a subject near and dear to my heart...........................

I'm lucky that I'm county. We do have "certain rules" with my department, but for the most part, they are real easy to follow cause most of the residents throughout our jurisdiction that we deal with are not idiotic fawktards with nothing better to do than to complain to the boss about our antics, therefore our officer discretion when it comes to dealing with them is pretty much on the money............................................. ......

Now with the little towns in our county, it seems like certain people who actually seem to think they are someone apparently have decided upon themselves that they are the watchdog agency for their local PD. All they do is attempt to smother themselves by having their heads up the police officers' asses and complaining about their sand in their vaginas. I mostly hear about it from the officers dealing with this BS, and I just shake my head. Seems like these people don't have enough to worry about in their own personal lives, so they have to get involved with other people and try to fawk up their lives.

It's pretty hard in these small OK towns to ignore the drama and moving to a big agency, well of course we are made up from society. My department is far from being drama free, but I've learned how to keep 99% out of my life, so I'm happy where I'm at. :D

[MPD-A9]

IMHO you need to leave this dept as fast as you can. There are plenty of agencies out there that will support their officers.


I wish my agency would support us.

Remember, the mayor is only concerned about one thing-reelection

[HCSO511]

in my area we work 4 days on and 4 off. i work 4 days at the s.o. and 4 days at this small town on the edge of the county line in the next county. i can see the county line from the city limits. the mayor had an emergency meeting over a dui i took in that blew a .01, my mistake, i new it was a drug d.u.i. but i was too lazy to try for the blood. smelled as though the alcohol would get me there, anyway we live we learn. he was so scared she was going to sue that he called an emergency meeting about it. the chief showed the council what the d.a., the city attorney, and the lawyer for c.l.e.e.t. had to say about it. they said we couldnt be sued. i had the p.c. to suspect her. he ranted and raved and the rest of the council told him that he was alone on this one because they were very pleased with the way we do our jobs. it was nice to see a council stand for what was right for once instead of being scared into something.

the county i work for has a sheriff the people call buford if that gives you any inclination as to how it works here. i have never seen a complaint that wasnt true even mentioned to anyone. if a deputy has to fight someone there wont be an inquisition from the sheriff or undersheriff. our sheriff told me when i hired in as a reserve/ dispatcher that he would stand by me as long as i was right, and if i did wrong and thought i was doing right he would stand behind me still. he has never let me or anyone else here down on that. i have seen more than one person come slamming doors into his office to complain. the door slams then opens again as he drags them out of the office and educates them as to the proper way to enter his office. i know a lot of guys work for chief's/sheriff's who worry about trying to kiss every ***** in front of them instead of standing for whats right. if you ever have a chance to work for a leader who leads from the front and is still at the front when the heat comes down i suggest you jump at the chance.

i let word get out to the mayor of my little burg that he could fire me but he still did a lot of driving in the next county. i think the message got through.

[Radio]

the mayor said it was decietful for me to lull people into a false security like that by them thinking no one is around. so is he saying the message should be obey the law if there are police around but otherwise do as you please?

WTF? :confused: Because you were not seen or herd does not mean you forced someone to commit a crime. Thus how can it be Decietful since you are not decieveing anyone ..... you dident hide the stop sign did you?
I guess that blowing a stop sign makes people feel secure; especially in the fact that they wont get T - Boned by the person comming the opposite direction who does not have a stop sign.

I love it when you pull over a DUI just after they left the bar across the street you were parked in.
"Hay thats Entrapment" LMAO i love that one. My response.
"I did not make you enter that bar get drunk and drive this vehicle."

Seems to be kinda the same thing with your stop sign story :(

[badger]

I've had several people complain about similar things, like sitting on private property and doing traffic enforcement on the public roadway. They are uneducated and their complaints aren't worth the air they breathed to be able to utter them. Your council member out to be told as such and be referred to someone he would respect to tell him this since it obviously isn't you. He needs to get a back bone and stop being putty in the hands of idiots.

My Chief has told people where they can go if they file frivilous complaints, and has told them in no uncertain terms that he will not even follow up with a complaint until is is written and notarized. He then tells the people if any part of it is untrue, they will be prosecuted. How's that for back bone? I like him for this, I just wish he would do more for assuring our training and equipement budget doesn't get cut, and has a faster response on issues we bring to him regarding the council.

[Bart]

I believe you were making an attempt to question how I or my Department police, but I will ignore that and say, "have a good day Retired." :D

in all actuallity, i think retired was speaking in general terms. terms that in this case, i tend to agree with. as long as we act as if we're on camera even when we know we're not, the chance of getting jammed up is greatly reduced. on top of that, there's no reason to be uncivil, even when others are not. i can put people in their place without having to stoop to their level.

no matter what, we're all going to do what we're going to do. we cant allow citizen complaints to dictate how we do our jobs. the first order of business for any department should be for the patrolmen to organize and form a strong union. i know its easier said than done but it has to start somewhere.

with a strong union, reprimands by admin can be grieved. the rights of officers who are simply doing their jobs will be protected from ignorant citizens who complain that the sun doesnt shine long enough.

[retired]

I'm always professional in my conduct, or at least I act a professionally as my peers. :cool: I believe you were making an attempt to question how I or my Department police, but I will ignore that and say, "have a good day Retired." :D

If I wanted to question how how you or your department police, I would make more than an attempt. You are the one who said, "The only rule we have is dont get caught on tape". Now what does that imply to someone? Does it not imply, do what you want but don't let them catch you on tape? :confused: Whose rule or policy is it that you don't get caught on tape? Is it a departmental policy, or an unwritten code by the patrol officers? :confused: :confused:

[Runnin' 87]

My chief's phone rang off the hook the other day and I got talked too. One of my troops called for assistance. We ALL lit them up and got there in a hurry. Bad guy faught the law, the law won, the he decided to kick the glass out of the back of the squad car. All this after a beat up a young teen.

The same neighborhood that dialed 9-1-1 about this crazy man that was beating on this kid, decided to call the chief and complain about the cops hauling azz to get there.

I told the boss that I can talk to the guys about being carful when running through neighborhoods, but don't think for a second that I can get them to slow down when one of their own is calling for help. Obviously they won't get no help for the peanut gallery.

Luckly my chief just smirked and shook his head.

[connor]

A simple solution to a lot of bull**** complaints would be if departments would prosecute people who fabricate complaints against officers. Nearly half of the officers on my department have taken to secretly recording every contact they have with the public and saving them to their computers. (FYI, this is legal in my state as only one person recording, i.e. you, has to give consent to it). This has saved officers many, many times from false complaints of rudeness, sexual comments, vulgarity, etc. But never do they do anything to the citizen but say "Thank you for your concern but we found no evidence of wrongdoing."

[Band of Brother]

Hi People,

I hear you guys. As police officers we swear to uphold the law without fear or favour.
The vast majority of my colleagues undertake this obligation with great dedication.
But we often can never win.
The public fail to realise that undermining our law enforcement services unpicks the fabric of our free and civilised society.

Even before I was a copper, like I'm sure all you guys, I was brought up to understand that the police are acting for us, and deserve our support.
We DO actually have the backing off the people. ALL sections of society.
keep the faith, guys, I've always spoke up when I've been under misguided fire.
Truth is on our side, and we can wear that badge with pride..

[MPD-A9]

A simple solution to a lot of bull**** complaints would be if departments would prosecute people who fabricate complaints against officers."


Amen to that. People in my dept are starting to sue for defemation also.

[GrayW4442]

I remember reading, I beleive it was Chicago PD, that the union was negotiating in their new contract with the city that when a citizen complained to IAB they had to sign a sworn affidavit to what they claim.

[HCSO511]

that would be nice if people had to sign something in order for a complaint to be looked into. it seems anymore that so and so and can tell whoever who then told another person and therefore it is fact. i would fall down and laugh myself to death if someone got sued and the cop won over a defemation suit.

[DaBoss]

I live in a medium sized college town. As you can imagine, the police officers deal with the typical "college" issues: DWI, MIP, speeding, noise, some dealings with marijuana etc.

At least with traffic and MIPs, some college students do not like government interference with their choices. However, no one in local government really gives much mind to these students because they usually do not vote and they are not as civically active as the older population (usually University staff, local businessmen etc.)

Government will respond only as much as people demand accountabilty from them (right or wrong accountability). I can probably have the CA and the DA receive my opinion on what I think because I've volunteered on their campaigns and I'm involved in other civic projects. A young criminal offender is not going to get that time of day.

[marshaldan]

I am elected. I answer to the people. The township put up a stop sign at a T. You can see forever. I PULLED IT UP AND PUT IT ON THE tOWN COUNCIL`S TABLE.

They had it back up in a few weeks. So much for LE opinion.

I think that I will take it down with less fan fare.

[MPD-A9]

I am elected. I answer to the people. The township put up a stop sign at a T. You can see forever. I PULLED IT UP AND PUT IT ON THE tOWN COUNCIL`S TABLE.

They had it back up in a few weeks. So much for LE opinion.




Sounds like your town is needing to generate funds for a "new community center"