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View Full Version : Pat Downs, How do you do it?



davidh304
05-01-2005, 05:20 AM
So how do you do your pat downs? Im looking for a good way to physically control the bad guy while still being able to do a good pat down. This is for situations where you won't be handcuffing the BG.

Im not looking for the verbal schmoozing part of getting consent for a search or anything else like that.

I find my pat downs just don't feel safe to me and I'm looking for a way to change that. I know I should be in a position of control over the BG if he gets froggy but they way I pat down Im no better off than if I was just standing next to the BG.

I'd ask my Training Section but oh wait they don't work after 1700 and I work midnights. No one else on my squad has any really good techniques.


I work tomorrow (er today) and am going to practice some techniques with a squadmate. I was thinking having the BG put his hands behind his back, interlock his fingers palms outward. I use one of my hands to wrap up all those delicate breakable fingers and my other hand to do the pat down.


Any suggestions?

Bodie
05-01-2005, 05:35 AM
This is what I trained people in and please don't get me started about sloppy pat downs and unsafe handcuffing practices that get officers severely injured and maybe KILLED.

Photogrrlz
05-01-2005, 06:25 AM
Bodie we had 3 guns come into our receiving room of the jail last year, none so far this year....So shows how good some folks pat down....

Bodie
05-01-2005, 08:09 AM
We have found drugs, guns knives, blackjacks, razors all kinds of stuff that can hurt or KILL because an officer did a sloppy par down.The day we found a gun was the day soime of us almost kicked the crap out of another officer in front of the suspect.

mdcop4life
05-01-2005, 09:56 AM
For what it's worth this is how I do it.....

I have the suspect/subject interlock his hands together and place them on top of his head. I hold usually 3 of his fingers tight together. I place my right foot side by side with his left foot, resting the back part of his leg on my knee (if feesible)....that way if I find something or if he starts fighting I can drop him like a fly. I take his body backwards while I pat down the front part of his body with my left hand.....then shift hands and hold him with my left hand and pat down with my right hand.

Hope it helps......I learned from one of the best.

dentndude2
05-01-2005, 07:10 PM
For what it's worth this is how I do it.....

I have the suspect/subject interlock his hands together and place them on top of his head. I hold usually 3 of his fingers tight together. I place my right foot side by side with his left foot, resting the back part of his leg on my knee (if feesible)....that way if I find something or if he starts fighting I can drop him like a fly. I take his body backwards while I pat down the front part of his body with my left hand.....then shift hands and hold him with my left hand and pat down with my right hand.

I second this. Pretty much is exactly how I do pat downs. I don't want to give the BG any opportunity at all!

L-1
05-01-2005, 07:51 PM
CHP has a search procedure they refer to as Physical Methods of Arrest (or PMA) that is painfully detailed. It is hammered into them so thoroughly at the academy that most officers never abandon it, even when they go to another agency that searches differently. (You can always tell a former Chippie by how he searches his prisoner).

While I believe the PMA manual is exempt from public inspection, a letter to them on your department stationary might yield a copy (there will probably be a minimal charge).

Darth Choke
05-02-2005, 01:27 AM
CHP has a search procedure they refer to as Physical Methods of Arrest (or PMA) that is painfully detailed. It is hammered into them so thoroughly at the academy that most officers never abandon it, even when they go to another agency that searches differently. (You can always tell a former Chippie by how he searches his prisoner).

While I believe the PMA manual is exempt from public inspection, a letter to them on your department stationary might yield a copy (there will probably be a minimal charge).


Absolutley agree. I am shocked you did not learn (at academy) or learn (field training) to do a terry/frisk patdown. See if you can get the CHP PMA manual (or a video).

Separate feet WIDE....WIDE, have them interlock fingers TIGHT, grab 2-3 of those fingers (on same hand) tight, off balance - bend'em back.

NOTHING is safe...but that is about as safe as you can get.

davidh304
05-02-2005, 02:51 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. Oh I learned how to do a pat down at the academy but it was a ****ty way of doing it. I always have the BG spread their legs wide and put my foot inside theirs, I forgot to mention that because it's so automatic to me and I always doing it.

lawdog1971
05-02-2005, 03:22 AM
For what it's worth this is how I do it.....

I have the suspect/subject interlock his hands together and place them on top of his head. I hold usually 3 of his fingers tight together. I place my right foot side by side with his left foot, resting the back part of his leg on my knee (if feesible)....that way if I find something or if he starts fighting I can drop him like a fly. I take his body backwards while I pat down the front part of his body with my left hand.....then shift hands and hold him with my left hand and pat down with my right hand.

Hope it helps......I learned from one of the best.

I pretty much do it the same way a couple of exceptions. When I grab his fingers and bend him backwards, I place my left knee behind his left knee. That way, my gun side is away from him in case he tries to spin on me. I'll search his left side upper body, then left side lower body. Then I switch sides.

Migraman
05-02-2005, 03:56 AM
I pretty much do it the same way a couple of exceptions. When I grab his fingers and bend him backwards, I place my left knee behind his left knee. That way, my gun side is away from him in case he tries to spin on me. I'll search his left side upper body, then left side lower body. Then I switch sides.

Try this variation; have him invert his heels against the wall and fully extend his arms while rotating the backs of his hands against the wall. Place your non-searching hand between his shoulder blades and apply a little pressure to keep his chest against the wall. Still use your knee to pin the leg.

This greatly reduces the spin/push off factor. Not to mention if you remove your supporting hand he will tip backwards and do the funky chicken trying to keep his balance. I don't think I need to mention what will happen if you yank him back with the support hand. Give it a try, its a little ackward at first but I've come to like it.

realluke
05-02-2005, 07:01 AM
Try this variation; have him invert his heels against the wall and fully extend his arms while rotating the backs of his hands against the wall. Place your non-searching hand between his shoulder blades and apply a little pressure to keep his chest against the wall. Still use your knee to pin the leg.

This greatly reduces the spin/push off factor. Not to mention if you remove your supporting hand he will tip backwards and do the funky chicken trying to keep his balance. I don't think I need to mention what will happen if you yank him back with the support hand. Give it a try, its a little ackward at first but I've come to like it.
I like that way, thanks for a new way

Pedro56
05-02-2005, 10:09 AM
If they are worthy of me giving a pat-down they get cuffed. That is safe enough for me. If there is more than one, I carry 3 sets of cuffs and everyone gets cuffed together. Cuffs come off as easy as they go on.

pkagel
05-02-2005, 10:23 AM
I'm 5'10" so I like to pat them down with their hands behind their back, palms together and fingers interlaced. Grab about 4 of those fingers and if they try to move break them off. If they are shorter than me I have the hands on top of the head, fingers interlaced and grab their hands, squeeze and arch them back. If they try to move you pull down and bounce their head off the pavement.

Delta784
05-02-2005, 10:39 AM
I have them stand with their feet apart, hands behind their head with fingers interlocked. I then grab the top of their interlocked fingers with one hand, with my forearm running down thier neck/shoulder blades. I use the other hand to frisk one side of the body, then I switch hands to do the other side. If the person makes a move, it's easy to push them off-balance with your hand/forearm, and go for your OC, weapon, etc.

webjeep
05-02-2005, 11:54 AM
If you are doing a consent search then follow the aforementioned advice. If you are doing a pat (Terry type, 1 ea.) then you have reasonable grounds to detain (ie cuff) the subject based on the nature of Terry. If you think that someone has a weapon then cuff first, worry about how you are going to search them later.

-web

sob153
05-02-2005, 12:03 PM
Absolutley agree. I am shocked you did not learn (at academy) or learn (field training) to do a terry/frisk patdown. See if you can get the CHP PMA manual (or a video).

Separate feet WIDE....WIDE, have them interlock fingers TIGHT, grab 2-3 of those fingers (on same hand) tight, off balance - bend'em back.

NOTHING is safe...but that is about as safe as you can get.

Same here but when I "PAT" I do the crush and twist

DaveinUtah
05-02-2005, 12:27 PM
Just getting out of the academy not too long ago, this is how we are taught.

Have them spread their "feet"(saying spread your legs, is no longer acceptable, I guess) After they spread them, have them "spread 'em a little more" Suspects won't spread as far as they can, so make them. Have them interlock fingers behind their neck.

We were taught to say "for your safety and mine, DO NOT MOVE, do you understand?"

Slowly approach, and grasp three of their fingers. If a suspect is going to resist or fight, this is most likely when it will happen, so you can either back off really quick, or as we were taugh, take them to the ground with a wrist lock as they spin.

Once you have their fingers, as you step in, put your other hand in the small of their back to break their balance. You also at the same time(when first using your left hand to clasp their fingers) step in with your right foot to the inside of their right foot. Also, using your shin to break their balance on the back of their calf. Proceed to search.

There are some good takedowns from this position that you can use too.

Chief Wiggum
05-02-2005, 04:07 PM
I'm 5'10" so I like to pat them down with their hands behind their back, palms together and fingers interlaced. Grab about 4 of those fingers and if they try to move break them off.

We use this except we turn their hands over so their plams face the ground. I can control someone with 2 fingers like this.

me ofc
05-02-2005, 07:13 PM
carefully very carefully i hate needles

1sgkelly
05-02-2005, 07:57 PM
Pat Downs, How do you do it?

You are either cuffed or covered by my partner; or probably both.
;)

Mungo
05-03-2005, 08:42 PM
One of my co-worker brought in a pair of gloves with sensors built in. If you go over metal objects, indicator on the back of the hands vibrates. Don't know which company makes them, but they are out there. Personally, I don't think they are that useful, but I never say no to new toys.

savage4presiden
05-05-2005, 03:30 PM
I'm not a cop. So I'm sorry for posting in this section. I won't make a habit of it.
But what about making them stand on their knees? Would that solve any control/safety related issues?

pkagel
05-05-2005, 03:33 PM
We were taught that way in my academy also as I'm sure most of the others here were. All depends on what they did and where they are and what kind of backup you have.

bigcop97
05-06-2005, 08:04 AM
carefully very carefully i hate needles

Amen,
After you ask if they have needles and they say no, then you search some dirtball druggie with HEP C or AIDS with a dirty needle in his pocket. Makes me want to punch them as hard as I can in the face... god I hate that.

Anyway some really good ways have already been mentioned. Just remember when doing a "pat" down and especially a search... not to sound gay, but the crotch/waistband area is the most overlooked part.

In my opinion, this is not the time to worry about being modest.

Migraman
05-06-2005, 09:40 PM
Good point on the groin area. The middle of the chest area also. I usually wear a neck knife when I'm off duty. I've observed many of my peers doing searches and this area is often overlooked.