Terry Shaivo/Removal of Feeding Tube

[BrickCop]

I have no problem whatsoever if her loved ones decide to end her suffering, it's just in the manner in which it's done that I have a big problem with.

It would be judged as cruel and unusual punishment if the State of California locked Scott Peterson in his cell and witheld all food and water until such time he suffered a horrible death from starvation/dehydration.

Although Terry Shaivo is in a vegetative state I have heard nothing to suggest her body cannot feel pain so why remove the feeding tube? Do people assume that she cannot feel any pain or suffering because she can't speak for herself?

Again, I have no problem if her loved ones decide to let her go I just don't understand why in this age of modern medicine that there is not a less drastic way to do it. Condemned prisoners get a painless injection that puts them "to sleep" in a humane fashion. Why can't people like Ms. Shaivo get the same humane consideration?

What do you think? :confused:

[retired]

If I'm not mistaken, when a any life support device is removed from any patient, they are heavily sedated so there is no pain. This just occured last week with my son-in-laws father. Life support was removed, but prior to the removal, he was heavily sedated so there was no pain or discomfort.

[Quopper]

If I'm not mistaken, when a any life support device is removed from any patient, they are heavily sedated so there is no pain. This just occured last week with my son-in-laws father. Life support was removed, but prior to the removal, he was heavily sedated so there was no pain or discomfort.

Consider your in-law lucky! This does not happen everywhere. Had an old friend who's family decided to "pull" the plug because she was starting to detiorate on her own, they thought "hey this would be good", two weeks later when she was NOT dead yet, they hooked her back up - 3 days later she was speaking, and said it was the most horendous thing you could ever image having done to you! She lived an additional 3 years after that point!

Why on earth can I take my DOG in and have a shot given to them too????

This subject has always hit a nerve with me - it is INHUMANE!

[Jabrim]

Consider your in-law lucky! This does not happen everywhere. Had an old friend who's family decided to "pull" the plug because she was starting to detiorate on her own, they thought "hey this would be good", two weeks later when she was NOT dead yet, they hooked her back up - 3 days later she was speaking, and said it was the most horendous thing you could ever image having done to you! She lived an additional 3 years after that point!

Why on earth can I take my DOG in and have a shot given to them too????

This subject has always hit a nerve with me - it is INHUMANE!

I think things like this are touchy no matter how its handled. The people are miserable and then go through more pain if their support is taken away. I saw two different doctor's being interviewed saying it wasn't painful and all I have to say is bull**** personally. Then someone called into or wrote the show telling about a family member. Basically they had taken away life support, the person lived for over two weeks I believe. Their tongue was bleeding and/or their mouth due to dehydration. When a family member/hospital worker gave them a syringe (Sp) they grasped it like a baby to a bottle. How can they say it isn't painful unless they themselves have gone through the ordeal? Its impossible to say what something feels like to every single person in the world. Everyone handles pain differently. I know if my son or fiance doesn't eat or drink they get cranky. I can't imagine how they would be not having eaten or drank anything for two weeks and see people watch them just die and do absolultely nothing. I couldn't imagine the sense of betrayal these people must feel unless they actually want it. I just can't honestly see these people wanting to go through this if they know the full consequences myself. Its just me and I'll not let anyone "pull my plug". If I ever go into a coma just leave my *** alone. :(

[Delta784]

Just to add another wrinkle, I read today that Congress has issued subpeonas to Terri Schiavo, her parents, her husband, and others involved in the case to testify before a Congressional panel.

I think it was Senator Bill Frist who pointed out that it's a serious Federal felony to harm or kill someone who is under subpeona, so look for a Federal court injunction shortly.

[Yxboom]

Just to add another wrinkle, I read today that Congress has issued subpeonas to Terri Schiavo, her parents, her husband, and others involved in the case to testify before a Congressional panel.

I think it was Senator Bill Frist who pointed out that it's a serious Federal felony to harm or kill someone who is under subpeona, so look for a Federal court injunction shortly.The news said that they have unhooked her feeding tube, regardless of the above. :mad: I hope it's not true. :(

Did she commit a crime??? What gives the judge the authority to order her execution? :eek:

[retired]

Just to add another wrinkle, I read today that Congress has issued subpeonas to Terri Schiavo, her parents, her husband, and others involved in the case to testify before a Congressional panel.

I think it was Senator Bill Frist who pointed out that it's a serious Federal felony to harm or kill someone who is under subpeona, so look for a Federal court injunction shortly.


Regardless of how one feels about removing life support, I don't think it is a federal issue, I think it is a states rights issue.

[Delta784]

Regardless of how one feels about removing life support, I don't think it is a federal issue, I think it is a states rights issue.

I agree, but the Congress has issued legitimate subpeonas to the parties involved, so it's now up to a Federal court to decide if those subpeonas are to be honored.

[retired]

I agree, but the Congress has issued legitimate subpeonas to the parties involved, so it's now up to a Federal court to decide if those subpeonas are to be honored.

I have just read that there are some legal scholars who believe that congress has overstepped their authority with the subpoenas. It will be interesting to see if states rights are once again abused.

[Watchman]

It will be interesting to see if states rights are once again abused.


What so interesting about that ? Its been happening for over 100 years.
:eek:

[SWATcop]

They said that animals are treated more humanely because we don't starve animals to death. Well, I guess they've got a point. So euthanize the bitch and get it over with already, geez. I'm tired of watching the same crap over and over again on the news.

[Jabrim]

They said that animals are treated more humanely because we don't starve animals to death. Well, I guess they've got a point. So euthanize the bitch and get it over with already, geez. I'm tired of watching the same crap over and over again on the news.

Well no one forces anyone to watch the news. But they don't need to Euthanize the bitch and get it over with.

[retired]

It will be interesting to see if states rights are once again abused.


What so interesting about that ? Its been happening for over 100 years.
:eek:

Will you stop posting comments that I agree with, it makes both of us look bad. :D

[Yxboom]

I have just read that there are some legal scholars who believe that congress has overstepped their authority with the subpoenas. It will be interesting to see if states rights are once again abused.Is the judge who ordered the execution of Terri Shaivo a Federal or a State judge?

[That Guy]

I don't know about her , but if I am ever in that state pull the pull or pull the trigger. This will not be an issue in my case because it has been told to my family and wife, and will be put in my final draft of a will.

TGY.

[Welpe]

One thing this case does illustrate is to be sure to have a living will..

[CHPMarine]

i can understand pulling the plug on someone who is on a ventilator and something to keep their heart beating, and by pulling the plug the person immediately passes on. but starving someone to death just because they are a vegetable. she is breathing on her own as i understand, that would mean there is some brain activity and this person is still alive. i can bet she can feel pain also, she may not be able to express that pain as a completely conscious person would.
starving someone is cruel and unusual.

[Delta784]

Is the judge who ordered the execution of Terri Shaivo a Federal or a State judge?

State judge.

[Yxboom]

I'm not sure what to believe -- or disbelieve. Having said that...

I understand that Terri Shaivo is not brain dead and she is responsive to her parents. She can reportedly answer "yes" and "no" by blinking her eyes. Conversely, her husband is slated to get a one or two million dollar estate settlement upon her death -- is it any wonder that he wants her dead? :eek: Why doesn't he simply divorce her??? His wife (Terri Shaivo) is in the hospital, but he has already moved in with another woman who has born him two (?) children. :eek:

IMO, a state judge does not have the moral authority to order the execution of someone like Terri Shaivo, particularly when she has not been convicted of a crime. :eek:

I understand that the Florida judge may have the legal authority to order the execution of Terri Shaivo, just as the Nazi authorities had the legal authority to execute anyone who didn't fit their perfect profile during WWII. But wrong is wrong. We can't simply start executing people who aren't perfect. :eek:

The Florida judge has given Terri Shaivo the death sentence without a criminal conviction of any sort. :eek:

I can't believe that we're even having this conversation about whether or not to execute an innocent citizen. < slaps forehead > :eek:

[retired]

Is the judge who ordered the execution of Terri Shaivo a Federal or a State judge?

I was unaware that the judge ordered an "execution". :confused: I only read that he ordered the feeding tubes removed on the advice of more than two doctors who said her condition was hopeless, and with the concurrence of her husband.

[George Maschke]

I have no problem whatsoever if her loved ones decide to end her suffering, it's just in the manner in which it's done that I have a big problem with.

It would be judged as cruel and unusual punishment if the State of California locked Scott Peterson in his cell and witheld all food and water until such time he suffered a horrible death from starvation/dehydration.

Although Terry Shaivo is in a vegetative state I have heard nothing to suggest her body cannot feel pain so why remove the feeding tube? Do people assume that she cannot feel any pain or suffering because she can't speak for herself?

Again, I have no problem if her loved ones decide to let her go I just don't understand why in this age of modern medicine that there is not a less drastic way to do it. Condemned prisoners get a painless injection that puts them "to sleep" in a humane fashion. Why can't people like Ms. Shaivo get the same humane consideration?

What do you think? :confused:

You raise excellent points. I think these points suggest that as a society, we should re-consider public policy regarding euthanasia.

[Yxboom]

I was unaware that the judge ordered an "execution". :confused: I only read that he ordered the feeding tubes removed on the advice of more than two doctors who said her condition was hopeless, and with the concurrence of her husband.Well, I guess that we could phrase it several different ways, to include: Death by lethal injection.
Death by firing squad.
Death by gas chamber.
Death by hanging.
Death by starvation.
Death by deprivation of food and water.
et alNo matter how "politically correct" it is phrased, the judge has ordered that she be killed. The purpose of the judges order, specifically, is to kill her. :eek:

Yet she has not been convicted of any crime. :eek:

Other doctors have said that her condition is not hopeless, but her husband has blocked all legal efforts to give Terry Shaivo any form of therapy. Some doctors have claimed that with therapy, it is not hopeless for Terry Shaivo. Why not give therapy a try??? :eek:

[Mraughh]

I think theres some otehr reason why the husband has been trying to let her die. There was a $10million offer from a businessman to him if he relinquished all rights to decide her fate, and recently a CA businessman offered him $1million to do the same thing. So money isnt the issue. The family has asked him to divorce her, to relinquish all rights etc. but he wont budge on the issue. I just have to wonder if he's afraid she'll recover and rat him out on something he did to her or something that she knows about him. The cop in me smells a rat. Just curious about one thing, are there any adultery laws on the books in FLA? If so, why hasnt he been charged yet since he's openly admitted to adultry by living with another woman and fathering 2 kids on her.

Another Q, whats the political leanings of the judge? I heard he was liberal, but that was from a right wing source, anyone confirm?

[Delta784]

As I predicted, the case is now going to Federal court.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150945,00.html

[TXLady]

There is so much that we don't know about the brain. No one can say what she is feeling or thinking because they can't communicate with her. Maybe people in her situation are aware of things in their minds but cannot express them. Who knows? That's the problem. No one knows for sure.

It would be a living hell to be in that situation but I think starving her to death is cruel and wrong. I don't know what her husband's problem with this is. He has obviously moved on. If her parents want to continue to care for her, what's the problem?

[LadyLawman]

Ok ya'll here is my .02 on the whole thing as this has been ongoing for the Last 10 years!! NO ONE KNOWS HER SIDE!!! I mean seriously any one of you stop and think about this right now if this was you... Would you want to live as a shell have no idea who or what anyone or anything is and the only thing keeping you on this earth is some feeding tube??? :confused: Personally I want to go pull the freaking plug on me people cause I dont want my family to deal with it in the hopes after 10 years I may recover when there is no chance!! Really...... everyone in this post stop and really think about your families, your wives your, kids everyone you are close to, would you want to stay in a state where you wouldnt even know them? If I was her and I finally passed away I can tell you I would come back and haunt every freaking person that kept me on that damn machine. I personally think her parents have seperation problems or are trying to hold on to someone who trully isnt even there. LET HER GO PEACEFULLY!! I am quite sure she would want it that way give everyone some closure in this and just let her go to a more peaceful place. I think she would be at more peace dead then sitting in a bed not knowing one day to the next who is there and who her parents and husband even are. Sometimes in life its better to let go then to hold on.

[Yxboom]

Snip...
The cop in me smells a rat. Just curious about one thing, are there any adultery laws on the books in FLA? If so, why hasnt he been charged yet, since he's openly admitted to adultry by living with another woman and fathering 2 kids on her. Adultery is a misdemeanor in Florida, but the last time that law was used was in 1968 in Miami-Dade county. The law is on the books, but it isn't used any more. It's sort of like having an ordinance that prohibits spitting on the sidewalk.

Snip...
Another Q, whats the political leanings of the judge? I heard he was liberal, but that was from a right wing source, anyone confirm?As I understand it, he is pro-death and he has an agenda.

[Delta784]

It would be a living hell to be in that situation but I think starving her to death is cruel and wrong. I don't know what her husband's problem with this is. He has obviously moved on. If her parents want to continue to care for her, what's the problem?

The husband stands to gain about $1-2 million if she dies while still married to him.

[retired]

The husband stands to gain about $1-2 million if she dies while still married to him.

The money from the insurance claim has all but been exhausted, she has no money.

Schiavo

[Quopper]

Ok ya'll here is my .02 on the whole thing as this has been ongoing for the Last 10 years!! NO ONE KNOWS HER SIDE!!! I mean seriously any one of you stop and think about this right now if this was you... Would you want to live as a shell have no idea who or what anyone or anything is and the only thing keeping you on this earth is some feeding tube??? :confused: Personally I want to go pull the freaking plug on me people cause I dont want my family to deal with it in the hopes after 10 years I may recover when there is no chance!! Really...... everyone in this post stop and really think about your families, your wives your, kids everyone you are close to, would you want to stay in a state where you wouldnt even know them? If I was her and I finally passed away I can tell you I would come back and haunt every freaking person that kept me on that damn machine. I personally think her parents have seperation problems or are trying to hold on to someone who trully isnt even there. LET HER GO PEACEFULLY!! I am quite sure she would want it that way give everyone some closure in this and just let her go to a more peaceful place. I think she would be at more peace dead then sitting in a bed not knowing one day to the next who is there and who her parents and husband even are. Sometimes in life its better to let go then to hold on.

LADY I agrew with you! Unplug it - if it is a matter of unplugging, if my heart and my lungs will quit - then fine, no prob. But I REALLY would not want to starve to death! Give me a damn lethal injection or something! Why do I not deserve that, but as I said earlier, my dog does?

Whole point of having a living will, etc. ALL of my family knows that I DO NOT want to live in a vegitated state. Actually the WHOLE family has decided that none of us do and if it is too hard for one of us to say "Unplug" then we have Medical PoA for others that would! Sounds paranoid but we have had a few instances of plug pulling in the family already.

[Slippery Pete]

Just because some of you would want to die in that situation doesn't mean she does. I know I wouldn't want to.

Her family and their lawyers have claimed that she indicates she wants to live when they tell her what's going on. Supposedly she even attempted to speak when they told her that the tube was going to be taken out. Now maybe the family is lying... but for what purpose? They don't get any money or any other benefits if she lives longer.

Despite what the courts have found, she is not in any kind of vegetative state. She is conscious. She does respond to sounds and to touch. She seems to understand specific words that people say to her. She even retains the ability to swallow, which is contrary to the scientific definition of "persistive vegetative state."

Doctors say she has the brain capacity of a 6 to 10 month old child. I'm pretty sure starving a 6 month old baby to death is illegal in every state, so why is it not only legal but court-ordered in this case?

The judge that ordered her to be starved to death specifically prohibited her from being fed through the mouth... that tells me he just plain wants her dead. This is what I can't understand. Other than the money that Michael Schaivo stands to gain, nobody will benefit from her death. Why can't they just let her live?

As for the states-rights issue, the Florida legislature and Governor Bush already passed a law that would have saved her life. A handful of judges found the law to be unconstitutional (unconstitutional to live?). It's those judges who are abusing their authority in overriding the rights of the state.

One of the judges in the case ordered her starved to death even after she was subpeonaed to testify before Congress. It seems to me that Congress should hold him in contempt.

[Yxboom]

Newspaper Article Snip...
Terri Schiavo's parents just want her home.
source (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/20/schiavo/index.html)Why not let her parents have her? Why are they denied the opportunity to take care of their child?

Why not allow her to receive therapy? Why has therapy been denied her by her husband?

Personally, I want to live, but if I am brain damaged, then will I be executed for the good of the state? :eek:

[Mraughh]

Why not let her parents have her? Why are they denied the opportunity to take care of their child?

Why not allow her to receive therapy? Why has therapy been denied her by her husband?

Personally, I want to live, but if I am brain damaged, then will I be executed for the good of the state? :eek:

Thats why I think he's afraid of her recovering enough to communicate and he wants her to die. He' got some motive for doing this, no doubt.

[retired]

Thats why I think he's afraid of her recovering enough to communicate and he wants her to die. He' got some motive for doing this, no doubt.

She's been like this for 15 years! Do you really think he is afraid she'll recover? :rolleyes:

I don't agree that he has some ulterior motive. Medical tests and exaiminations have established that he didn't abuse her or do anything to cause the condition, she did it with her bulimia 15 years ago.

Out of curiosity, what factors are present that causes you to believe that he has a motive for taking her off of life support? There is no money left from the insurance settlement, she has nothing, so what is it that she would or might communicate?

[Jellybean400]

She's been like this for 15 years! Do you really think he is afraid she'll recover? :rolleyes:

I don't agree that he has some ulterior motive. Medical tests and exaiminations have established that he didn't abuse her or do anything to cause the condition, she did it with her bulimia 15 years ago.

Out of curiosity, what factors are present that causes you to believe that he has a motive for taking her off of life support? There is no money left from the insurance settlement, she has nothing, so what is it that she would or might communicate?

I agree.

As far as her ability to understand, etc., here's something i found on a legal site online:

"...You're left with a woman who suffered a heart attack 15 years ago, who essentially died but was resuscitated, though not entirely. Her brain had suffered enormous damage from the heart attack. As time passed, her brain further deteriorated -- to the point where much if not most of her cerebral cortex (the portion of the brain that controls conscious thought, among other things) was literally gone, replaced by spinal fluid. Doctors hired by Terri's husband say the deterioration of Terri's brain left her without thoughts or feelings, that the damage is irreversible, and that Terri's life-like appearance is merely the result of brain stem activity -- basically involuntary reflexes we all have. An independent doctor hired by the court reached the same conclusions. Doctors hired by Terri's parents did not dispute the physical damage done to Terri, but they claim there are new therapies that could improve her condition. In two separate trials, the trial court found such claims of potential improvement to be without merit. Terri's body continues to function without her cerebral cortex. She is sustained by a feeding tube surgically inserted into her stomach. She cannot eat through her mouth without a strong likelihood of choking to death..."

[Mraughh]

She's been like this for 15 years! Do you really think he is afraid she'll recover? :rolleyes:

I don't agree that he has some ulterior motive. Medical tests and exaiminations have established that he didn't abuse her or do anything to cause the condition, she did it with her bulimia 15 years ago.

Out of curiosity, what factors are present that causes you to believe that he has a motive for taking her off of life support? There is no money left from the insurance settlement, she has nothing, so what is it that she would or might communicate?

He's got to have some basic motive for doing this Retired. There is no logical reason for him to so vhemently fight this issue. Correct, theres no Ins. money, but he's been offered millions by private citizens to relinquish control of her. So that rules out the money issue.
He is living with and has children with another woman, so that rules out any illusion of staying married to her. I've never been married so I'll have to ask the divorced folks here, after going through a divorce do you still want to have contact with your ex-spouse? Thats basically what he's done is informally divorced her. He obviously dosent love her anymore.
Her family has offered several times to take custody of her care from him, so he wouldnt be obligated to continue paying for her care. They have offered to help him divorce her and break all ties with her.
I dont know what motive he has for doing this. I just wonder how clean he is, has he ever had any run-ins with the law? Shady business dealings? I'm grasping at straws but i dont see any valid reason for him to fight this issue. Hell it could even be that he hates her parents and just wants to cause them more pain by killing her.

[Jellybean400]

As far as what i've heard, his MOTIVES are that she had TOLD him she didnt want to live in a vegetative state, or to be kept alive by artificial means. Of course no one knows if this is true, because it was not put in writing. Maybe he believes its his responsibility to grant her her wish.

As far as me after i was divorced, i didnt want contact with my ex-, and we didnt have children, so we didnt have to stay in touch, altho he called occasionally.

[Mraughh]

As far as what i've heard, his MOTIVES are that she had TOLD him she didnt want to live in a vegetative state, or to be kept alive by artificial means. Of course no one knows if this is true, because it was not put in writing. Maybe he believes its his responsibility to grant her her wish.

As far as me after i was divorced, i didnt want contact with my ex-, and we didnt have children, so we didnt have to stay in touch, altho he called occasionally.

I could believe that motive Jellybean if he wasn't living with another woman. Sorry, I'm just very suspicious of why for 15 years he would continue fighting her parents over this.

[Jellybean400]

I'm glad to hear your thoughts. i'm not sure what i think, myself. i'm trying to put the facts together. alot of stuff is rumors, so i've been looking up some things to find out whats true.

[Mraughh]

Matt Drudge put up an audio clip of Terri on his website. www.drudgereport.com I cant access the audio from work so not sure what it is. Might be interesting to check out.

[mirandized]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but here's some interesting perspective...

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2004/articles/terri_schiavo3.htm

[mirandized]

Here's the audio from Drudge...

SCHIAVO AUDIO: 'Responding to her father on Friday, immediately following the removal of her feeding tube'... (http://www.frc.org/DL/20-MAR-05__EF05C38_0003AAE3-2D4F-123E-84811014AC14F856.mp3)

Call it whatever you want. I'm not for having this lady die if her parents are willing to care for her. It may not be coherent, but there is life there.

Now that I've heard first hand, I can't believe that there is even a question in the issue.

[Mraughh]

can you give me a brief synopsis of what is said on the audio? I have no way to listen to it.

EDIT Interesting website. I'll play the devils advocate for the other side here first. Hannity is decidedly conservative and looked like he kind of steered the interview towards the foul play questions. Eh? Eh? MOTIVE attempted murder. That'd be a good reason to let her die on the husbands behalf. Wonder if she had been examined by an independent physician to confirm or deny those neck injuries.

[USAcop]

Our family had a similiar situation with one of our grandparents.

We are a religous family and it was a pretty easy decision.

Unfortuneately too many people don't have a strong faith in God and try to keep someone living that shouldn't be living.

[retired]

As far as what i've heard, his MOTIVES are that she had TOLD him she didnt want to live in a vegetative state, or to be kept alive by artificial means. Of course no one knows if this is true, because it was not put in writing. Maybe he believes its his responsibility to grant her her wish.

As far as me after i was divorced, i didnt want contact with my ex-, and we didnt have children, so we didnt have to stay in touch, altho he called occasionally.

In court testimony, her brother and sister both substantiated that befoe the incident she had verbally indicated her desire not to be kept on life support as a vegetable. Court records along with medical records show he has been a caring, attentive husband since the incident. He has had her in several forms of therapy, several medical facilities, none of which has had any effect. From what I have read, the man has done nothing wrong, and after 15 years I think he is trying to do the right thing.

I am strongly against the federal government getting involved in this case. :mad:

[retired]

From court records:

What about the Schindlers' claims that Terri is conscious and responds to stimulation?

When the Second District first reviewed the trial court's decision that Terri would chose not to live under her present circumstances, the appellate court expressed no reservations when it explained that Terri was and "will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others

[Delta784]

I just listened to Sean Hannity's radio program, and he had a top-flight Neurologist on that was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize for his work in the field, and also has examined Terri Schiavo on 3 different occasions, with a total of 10 hours time with her.

This Neurologist said that when Terri was receiving therapy, she was walking on the horizontal bars with assistance, and was feeding herself with assistance. Since the husband stopped therapy in 1993, she has regressed to what we see today. Beyond ending all therapy once the medical malpractice check was cashed, the husband won't even allow Terri to go outside.

When Hannity asked the doctor if he thought that Terri would improve with meaningful therapy, he said he didn't think, but he knew that she would.

Michael Schiavo is a total *****. I'm convinced that he wants her killed for convenience and/or money, and nothing else. He is no more Terri's husband at this point than I am. He abandoned her years ago, and now has a common-law wife with whom he fathered two children. Why won't he sign off guardianship to Terri's parents, who are infinitely more concerned with her welfare than he is?

[Bart]

i say this family should be left alone. appearantly, this schiavo guy convinced the courts that it was terry's wish to die. the courts have spoken. due process was served at the state level. there's no need to prolong her suffering anymore than the 15 years that has already gone by.

what do these "right to lifers" think the federal court will discover about terry that the state courts havent already considered? all these legal petitions about her religious rights being violated is all subterfuge aimed at prolonging the inevitable.

the schindlers didnt like how the state courts ruled so they figure theyll go judge shopping in the federal courts. its a disgrace to our legal system.

[Groundhog]

I find it interesting that Michael Schiavo testified in the medical malpractice suit he filed 15 years ago "I believe in the vows I took with my wife: through sickness and health, for richer or poorer. I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that."

He was awarded $800,000 for Terri's rehabilitation & lifetime care and $640,000 for his loss. He promptly placed a do-not-resuscitate order on his wife's chart.

It wasn't until 7 years later that he "remembered" the conversation with Terri where she told him she would not want to be kept alive with extraordinary means.

I don't believe the Federal government should be interfering here; however, I believe Michael Schiavo is dishonest and has an ulterior motive. Why the Florida courts have not questioned this seriously up until now is a mystery to me.

[Styx]

I think he spiked her punch with Potassium chloride and waited for her to die....when she didnt, relished in the media attention, kept his marriage vows of until death do us part until he got horny and knocked up his girlfriend who I am sure he had before Teeei had her heart attack.

He is the most despicable form of human life and if he really loved his wife, he would let her parents care for her. I read about what the body does when it starves to death after a feeding tube is removed...Good Lord.....

[retired]

Michael Schiavo did not make the decision to discontinue life-prolonging measures for Terri.

As Terri's husband, Michael has been her guardian and her surrogate decision-maker. By 1998, though -- eight years after the trauma that produced Terri's situation -- Michael and Terri's parents disagreed over the proper course for her.

Rather than make the decision himself, Michael followed a procedure permitted by Florida courts by which a surrogate such as Michael can petition a court, asking the court to act as the ward's surrogate and determine what the ward would decide to do. Michael did this, and based on statements Terri made to him and others, he took the position that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures. The Schindlers took the position that Terri would continue life-prolonging measures. Under this procedure, the trial court becomes the surrogate decision-maker, and that is what happened in this case.

The trial court in this case held a trial on the dispute. Both sides were given opportunities to present their views and the evidence supporting those views. Afterwards, the trial court determined that, even applying the "clear and convincing evidence" standard -- the highest burden of proof used in civil cases -- the evidence showed that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures.

[Bklngirl]

I'm with you retired,I wouldn't want to live like that,nor would I want anyone I loved to be in that state.There is however ,something icky and cold about her husband.I saw this neurologist on CNN,and he maintiained that this poor woman could not posibly have the thinking processes necessary for smiling and social interactions(as it looked),That perhaps desperate parents see what they wish to see.
Bklngirl
I also agree that the government should not involve themselves in a private family situation

[Mraughh]

Interesting stuff on Michael Savages talk show tonight. Clips of the nurse and doctor are pointing more towards foul play now. Nurse said that while M. shiavo was alone in the room with terri for 20 minutes, nurse came back and found terri very agitated, found insulin bottles in the trash and several fresh needle marks under her breast and in her groin region. Also that the initial police investigation was classified as a homicide attempt but it wasnt investigated. And that Terri told her parents she was leaving Michael, went back to his place to tell him and was found on the floor the very next day. This guy was a nurse also correct?

[Yxboom]

There's a special place in hell reserved for murderers. :eek:

[Mraughh]

Looks like the 11th circut court upheld the tube removal, so she'll be dying.

Hmm, just caught this on the news, in Ebensburg PA theres a similar situation. The lady has been on a feeding tube for a long time, got hurt real bad in a car accident. Her parents want to have the tube remove, but the girl didnt have a living will, and apparently our state law will not allow the removal of the tube.

[retired]

Interesting stuff on Michael Savages talk show tonight. Clips of the nurse and doctor are pointing more towards foul play now. Nurse said that while M. shiavo was alone in the room with terri for 20 minutes, nurse came back and found terri very agitated, found insulin bottles in the trash and several fresh needle marks under her breast and in her groin region. Also that the initial police investigation was classified as a homicide attempt but it wasnt investigated. And that Terri told her parents she was leaving Michael, went back to his place to tell him and was found on the floor the very next day. This guy was a nurse also correct?

Of course Michael Savage, AKA Michael Weiner is a pillar of credibility, as is Dr. Hammesfahr who ostensibly exaimined her. :rolleyes:

Michael became a respiratory technician after the incident.

[TXLady]

Yes, it's a horrible way to live, but what a cruel way to die. There should be some way to make it more humane. :mad:

[BrickCop]

Regardless of your opinion whether she should or should not be allowed to pass...I just want to remind everyone that:

Scott "the wife and baby murderer" Peterson is enjoying three full course hot meals a day, when he is eventually executed it will be quick, gentle and painless.

As if Terry has not suffred enough she is required to painfully starve to death over a period of days because it would be immoral to the religeous extremists if she was treated as humanely. Sick dogs get better treatment.

[Bklngirl]

Good point,Brickcop,a lethal injection is legal in other countries,but,not here.(with regard to euthanasia)

[Quopper]

Regardless of your opinion whether she should or should not be allowed to pass...I just want to remind everyone that:

Scott "the wife and baby murderer" Peterson is enjoying three full course hot meals a day, when he is eventually executed it will be quick, gentle and painless.

As if Terry has not suffred enough she is required to painfully starve to death over a period of days because it would be immoral to the religeous extremists if she was treated as humanely. Sick dogs get better treatment.

BRICK I stated earlier in this thread that it ****es me off we can't let her go humanely. What a horrible way to die.

If we could get a lethal injenction law in this country - would it be used correctly or abused?

[Styx]

I have been pretty quiet about all of this because some of whats going on strikes in some tender heart spots

There was a time in my life when my family had to decide if life saving surgery was in my best interest....it was either stop the internal bleeding even though they thought my brain was mush or let me die. Thank God my only family member present signed those consent forms to let me live. the cheif neuro-surgeon even declined to do the surgery because he did not want any part of saving a life of someone who would be a vegetable, no matter what.

Thank God my parents allowed the surgery performed to relieve the pressure in my brain to be done. They were reminded that my quality of life would be horrible if measures were taken to save my life. My fiance and parents were actually told that I would live a life of being strapped in chairs if I wanted to sit up..if I could even make that decision, a life of wearing diapers, a life of being fed through a tube in my stomach...among other things...."Do you want to live your whole life with that responsibilty?" My mom still has not forgotten how she felt when a doctor asked her that...neither has my fiance who is now my husband.

Thank God they saw something beyond my so called reflexive movement...thank God they told the surgeons to do anything to save me.....ThankGod they refused a DNR before all my surgeries...my heart stopped during one and wouldnt that have been a bitch? Thank God they put me through that gut wrenching therapy and all those surgeries.....thank God they did not "pull the plug" when I was nothing but a body with tubes and wires breathing for me, eating for me, etc...... there was brain activity, but they said my brain was mush.....that i could not hear, feel or even know they were there. Imagine how they felt when they were told to start making funeral arrangements..."Just in case"

I cant say I did know they were there, but I must have felt every tender caress on my face from my mother and father, every kiss from my fiance....heard every song and lullaby sweetly sung to me by my friends, siblings and cousins. When I woke up and asked for my mom......she knew everything would be ok and it is.

I am sad about this for it is making me think "what if" and I stopped doing that a long time ago. It will be 10 years in April since my accident and after too many surgeries, a lot of therapy and more love than anyone can imagine a heart can hold....I am doing well. I cant put the past behind me because stories like this always remind me of what could have been.

Yes, I am happy things turned out better for me. But the whole thing makes me sad....the fact that she will starve to death and yes, will feel pain she cant let anyone knows she feels. It makes me sad that her mother will feel all that pain as she watches her daughter die......the child she nourished in her womb for 9 months.....the child she cannot help. That, my friends, is every parents nightmare.

[wolverine652001]

the 11th cir court denied the appeal. How sad.


If someone didn't feed their dog, they'd be tried for neglect, what about human being? No offense to the Democrats in here, but Democrat don't give a **** about life.

I being a Republican and was sad when they *DEM* overturned Bush's proposal.

[SWATcop]

Has anyone noticed that they keep playing that same tired old video over and over on the news? That tape is HOW many years old? How about showing some updated videos. You know, the ones where she just lays there hour after hour after hour without so much as a twitch. If that is what some of you call that "living," then I'd be mortified to see what you think "dead" is.

[Bart]

Has anyone noticed that they keep playing that same tired old video over and over on the news? That tape is HOW many years old? How about showing some updated videos. You know, the ones where she just lays there hour after hour after hour without so much as a twitch. If that is what some of you call that "living," then I'd be mortified to see what you think "dead" is.

i think what thats girl's family is doing is shameful as it is. putting new pics of her on the news would be even more disgraceful. the girl deserves privacy. they put themselves in front of the TV cameras airing their private lives for everybody in the world to see. they make a big spectacle of their situation as if nobody else has gone through tragedy. they call on politicians, clergy and whomever else will give them the time of day so they can prolong their daughter's suffering for their own selfish reasons. they dont want to accept that their daughter is practically gone and she deserves closure in death. i think they should stop all the legal wrangling and let the girl die in peace.

[tk0727]

i think what thats girl's family is doing is shameful as it is. putting new pics of her on the news would be even more disgraceful. the girl deserves privacy. they put themselves in front of the TV cameras airing their private lives for everybody in the world to see. they make a big spectacle of their situation as if nobody else has gone through tragedy. they call on politicians, clergy and whomever else will give them the time of day so they can prolong their daughter's suffering for their own selfish reasons. they dont want to accept that their daughter is practically gone and she deserves closure in death. i think they should stop all the legal wrangling and let the girl die in peace.

I agree. With the publicity they're getting. Next year there will be a movie and the family will just reep the benefits for this poor girl's suffering and, like you said, they're not the only ones who've gone through it. It's sad, but it's true, sometimes you have to make that decision no matter how hard that decision is. I feel like she is not going to ever recover, although I DO think they should find another way to help her so she's not in pain while they starve the poor girl to death. If she's in pain. Can't tell you what she's going through. Maybe she's PRAYING that they let her die. Hell, if she can't tell them herself, it's a tough decision. I would'nt want to be a vegetable if there was absolutely no hope.

[SWATcop]

i think what thats girl's family is doing is shameful as it is. putting new pics of her on the news would be even more disgraceful. the girl deserves privacy. they put themselves in front of the TV cameras airing their private lives for everybody in the world to see. they make a big spectacle of their situation as if nobody else has gone through tragedy. they call on politicians, clergy and whomever else will give them the time of day so they can prolong their daughter's suffering for their own selfish reasons. they dont want to accept that their daughter is practically gone and she deserves closure in death. i think they should stop all the legal wrangling and let the girl die in peace.
Amen, Amen, Amen.

[Styx]

i think what thats girl's family is doing is shameful as it is. putting new pics of her on the news would be even more disgraceful. the girl deserves privacy. they put themselves in front of the TV cameras airing their private lives for everybody in the world to see. they make a big spectacle of their situation as if nobody else has gone through tragedy. they call on politicians, clergy and whomever else will give them the time of day so they can prolong their daughter's suffering for their own selfish reasons. they dont want to accept that their daughter is practically gone and she deserves closure in death. i think they should stop all the legal wrangling and let the girl die in peace.

Starving to death is not dying in peace. I dont agree with a lot of what has happened. But, I dont think it's humane to let her starve to death and I certainly think its a load of crap that her parents cant even be with her before she dies.....thanks to her devoted husband who is taking this til death do us part of his marriage so seriously that he has children with another woman. Do you think he will wait until her body has gone into rigor before he marries that woman?

[Jabrim]

Starving to death is not dying in peace. I dont agree with a lot of what has happened. But, I dont think it's humane to let her starve to death and I certainly think its a load of crap that her parents cant even be with her before she dies.....thanks to her devoted husband who is taking this til death do us part of his marriage so seriously that he has children with another woman. Do you think he will wait until her body has gone into rigor before he marries that woman?

To simply answer that question? No probably not, he's basically campaigning for her death. So expecting him to go through a mourning period before his next marriage is unlikely. I'll play the bad guy for once here. Why should he wait after she dies to remarry if he wants to. Unless there's some law prohibiting it, he's entitled to do so. I haven't watched the videos and only briefly saw someone waving a balloon in front of her and seeing her eyes follow it. That alone was degrading enough and I chose to not view anymore of it. Let the woman die, I agree. But no matter how she does die now, people are going to bitch about how it isn't fair or right simply because it has so much media attention.

[BrickCop]

I may not agree with her parents decision but I think the only thing they are "guilty" of is loving their daughter. I understand the point Bart and others have made but her parents only contacted the media/politicians because they were desperate in their efforts to keep her feeding tube in.

I think it's pretty cold and downright unfair to label the parents as being selfish or being publicity hounds just because they wish to keep their child alive. Again they may be a bit misguided in their hopes of her recovery but that doesn't make their motives selfish.

I am somewhat saddened and suprised by the personal attacks on her parents.

[Styx]

I may not agree with her parents decision but I think the only thing they are "guilty" of is loving their daughter. I understand the point Bart and others have made but her parents only contacted the media/politicians because they were desperate in their efforts to keep her feeding tube in.

I think it's pretty cold and downright unfair to label the parents as being selfish or being publicity hounds just because they wish to keep their child alive. Again they may be a bit misguided in their hopes of her recovery but that doesn't make their motives selfish.

I an sadly suprised by the attacks on her parents.


I tried to give you a point for this comment, but have already pointed you today and cannot anymore in this thread...but....you certainly are a sweetheart, I think......

[Bart]

Starving to death is not dying in peace.

what evidence do you have that she even feels herself starving?

thanks to her devoted husband who is taking this til death do us part of his marriage so seriously that he has children with another woman. Do you think he will wait until her body has gone into rigor before he marries that woman?

its none of anybody's business whom the husband has kids with and whom he decides to marry. my whole entire point was this whole story should have been kept a private matter within the family. its the parents fault that this story exploded the way it has.

[Bart]

I may not agree with her parents decision but I think the only thing they are "guilty" of is loving their daughter. I understand the point Bart and others have made but her parents only contacted the media/politicians because they were desperate in their efforts to keep her feeding tube in.

I think it's pretty cold and downright unfair to label the parents as being selfish or being publicity hounds just because they wish to keep their child alive. Again they may be a bit misguided in their hopes of her recovery but that doesn't make their motives selfish.

i understand the parents are in a state of desperation. its tragic for all sides of the situation. maybe thats why i didnt rip into them any further than i already did.

I am somewhat saddened and suprised by the personal attacks on her parents.

they put themselves in the public eye. they run the risk of ridicule when they do that. im sure theyll live despite my twisted opinions.

[Styx]

what evidence do you have that she even feels herself starving?



its none of anybody's business whom the husband has kids with and whom he decides to marry. my whole entire point was this whole story should have been kept a private matter within the family. its the parents fault that this story exploded the way it has.

Oh, eat my shorts, Bart

What evidence do you have that she does not feel herself starving?

[Bart]

Oh, eat my shorts, Bart

get bent! ;)

What evidence do you have that she does not feel herself starving?

she's brain dead from lack of oxygen when her heart stopped. im not doctor but ive heard from experts on the news that her brain cant process the sensations of pain.

[Styx]

get bent! ;)



she's brain dead from lack of oxygen when her heart stopped. im not doctor but ive heard from experts on the news that her brain cant process the sensations of pain.


I didnt think you believed all you heard in the news....

Oh and bend this!!!!!!!!!!

[wolverine652001]

Starving to death is not dying in peace. I dont agree with a lot of what has happened. But, I dont think it's humane to let her starve to death and I certainly think its a load of crap that her parents cant even be with her before she dies.....thanks to her devoted husband who is taking this til death do us part of his marriage so seriously that he has children with another woman. Do you think he will wait until her body has gone into rigor before he marries that woman?


I couldn't agree any more with ya. How can her hubby boast about his trips, new cars and want terri to DIE so he doesn't have to pay the hospital any more money he won over the lawsuit of malpractice?

If I starve an animal today, and the Humane Society found out, I'd BE IN JAIL!!!! How cold of the Fed Judge to do that. That is how the Democrat works. They don't care about human rights but their own damn money.

If Terri dies, her hubby should be tried as murder. He's rich, and doesn't want nothing to do with Terri no more. BUT I DOUBT that is gonna happen.

[Jabrim]

I couldn't agree any more with ya. How can her hubby boast about his trips, new cars and want terri to DIE so he doesn't have to pay the hospital any more money he won over the lawsuit of malpractice?

If I starve an animal today, and the Humane Society found out, I'd BE IN JAIL!!!! How cold of the Fed Judge to do that. That is how the Democrat works. They don't care about human rights but their own damn money.

If Terri dies, her hubby should be tried as murder. He's rich, and doesn't want nothing to do with Terri no more. BUT I DOUBT that is gonna happen.

Well considering we have a Republican in office which gave tax breaks to the wealthiest 2% of America I guess your statement about Democrat's is dead on ;) Her husband won't be tried as a murder, simply because he hasn't broken the law at all let alone committed murder. People always act the better when its words but if they lived the same situation they would move on with their live's as well.

[Styx]

All I know is that if, God forbid, my husband was in the same situation and I was heartless enough to find a boyfriend who I long to have intercourse with on a regular basis .....and have a child with....I would give up my rights and divorce my husband and let his family care for him, if they so desired.

I do know I would not be spouting off about keeping my marital vows sacred and not divorcing my husband while having sex and kids with another man.

[wolverine652001]

All I know is that if, God forbid, my husband was in the same situation and I was heartless enough to find a boyfriend who I long to have intercourse with on a regular basis .....and have a child with....I would give up my rights and divorce my husband and let his family care for him, if they so desired.

I do know I would not be spouting off about keeping my marital vows sacred and not divorcing my husband while having sex and kids with another man.


Lets not forget why we have Saddam Hussein. He's being charged with Mulitples of counts, as well as murderin his own people.

If terri dies. I'm gonna strangle the Judge and see if I get Attempted Murder.

[wolverine652001]

Well considering we have a Republican in office which gave tax breaks to the wealthiest 2% of America I guess your statement about Democrat's is dead on ;) Her husband won't be tried as a murder, simply because he hasn't broken the law at all let alone committed murder. People always act the better when its words but if they lived the same situation they would move on with their live's as well.


if she's not on LIFE SUPPORT, she should live! How is she in a comma? She's not, she has been responding. She is functioning!!

*RANT*

GET THAT GAWD DAYM TUBE IN NOW!!!!!!!

*/RANTdone*

[Bart]

I didnt think you believed all you heard in the news....


i'll believe a doctor before i believe some religious zealot who says she can feel.

[wolverine652001]

Heres a thought........


Out of all the Brain Damaged humans out there, does that give the right to the parents, caretaker to just stop feeding them without being charged for murder?


If I have a brain damaged kid right now, if I stop feeding him/her, I'd definately would be charged for murder.



If my wife got into a bad accident and lost both of her arms, and I'm forced to have to hand feed her, and she has a brain damage as well. One day I decided I'm done with feeding her and I refuse to let her family to see her at all. Does that make me a heartwarming guy? HELL NO!

People who think like this and think there is NOTHING wrong with it, you are gutless, heartless, bastard! I hope you get what you deserve! I won't tell you will burn in hell, but the fact that you WILL burn in hell.

[Bart]

If Terri dies, her hubby should be tried as murder. He's rich, and doesn't want nothing to do with Terri no more. BUT I DOUBT that is gonna happen.

should the doctor who removed the tube be tried as well? how about the judge who allowed the tube to be removed? and how do you know the husband is rich. that one is news to me. :confused:

[Styx]

should the doctor who removed the tube be tried as well? how about the judge who allowed the tube to be removed? and how do you know the husband is rich. that one is news to me. :confused:

You know, Bart...I think you and I would fight a lot if we knew each other. My husband thinks like you and I have known him long enough to know when to ignore him........AAAAGGGHH!!!!!

[wolverine652001]

should the doctor who removed the tube be tried as well? how about the judge who allowed the tube to be removed? and how do you know the husband is rich. that one is news to me. :confused:


Doctors and the judges as well.. but we all know that the Judge can't be tried.


Didn't ya heard HOW TErri got brain damage? She got malpractice from a doctor, her hubby sued, Got **** load of money. Now the lawsuit state HE must use the money to pay for the treatment in the hospital. HE is tired of paying for it bc he wants it to himself.

That is why he's cutting the tube now. He wants the money and her dead so he can then collect more money from the insurance.

[Bart]

if she's not on LIFE SUPPORT, she should live! How is she in a comma? She's not, she has been responding. She is functioning!!



why isnt there any video of this? why didnt the judges get to see a video of her interacting with people? why have the doctors been saying that there's no hope of recovery depsite the fact that the parents say she's functioning? those claims of her responding and functioning seem nothing more than wishful thinking on the part of those trying to keep terri alive. like swatcop said before, lets see some updated pics and videos to prove she's functioning like you claim. HA! not bloody likely! :rolleyes:

[Bart]

Didn't ya heard HOW TErri got brain damage? She got malpractice from a doctor, her hubby sued, Got **** load of money. Now the lawsuit state HE must use the money to pay for the treatment in the hospital. HE is tired of paying for it bc he wants it to himself.

That is why he's cutting the tube now. He wants the money and her dead so he can then collect more money from the insurance.

is his lawyer working for free? im willing to bet 15 years on the tube and all the lawyer fees probably depleated whatever money he couldve gotten out of the insurance company.

[Styx]

HA! not bloody likely! :rolleyes:


Thats a horrible Cockney accent......

[wolverine652001]

why isnt there any video of this? why didnt the judges get to see a video of her interacting with people? why have the doctors been saying that there's no hope of recovery depsite the fact that the parents say she's functioning? those claims of her responding and functioning seem nothing more than wishful thinking on the part of those trying to keep terri alive. like swatcop said before, lets see some updated pics and videos to prove she's functioning like you claim. HA! not bloody likely! :rolleyes:


Two RN have signed an avidavit (sp?) claiming this,and got fired for it. Micheal wont allow Media or any sort in the room anymore. Michael has shut the doors on alot of people to be able to prove this. If he wants the media and the people to stop accusing of murdering her, why don't he let the family in and a media to prove she's on life support, or whatever it is. AND There is PROOF that michael is injecting drugs into her to speed up her death. NO JOKE!

[Bart]

You know, Bart...I think you and I would fight a lot if we knew each other. My husband thinks like you and I have known him long enough to know when to ignore him........AAAAGGGHH!!!!!

do i sense some sexual tension? its ok.... youre not the only woman to develop a crush on me. ;)

[Styx]

do i sense some sexual tension? its ok.... youre not the only woman to develop a crush on me. ;)

Its those computer hacking skills you have, you know....and that delicious bass.

That point is from me, BTW!

[Bart]

Two RN have signed an avidavit (sp?) claiming this,and got fired for it.

maybe they got fired because they got caught lying.......

Micheal wont allow Media or any sort in the room anymore. Michael has shut the doors on alot of people to be able to prove this. If he wants the media and the people to stop accusing of murdering her, why don't he let the family in and a media to prove she's on life support, or whatever it is.

i cant blame him for not allowing the media in the room. he has respect for the family's privacy unlike the parents who have turned into "media whores" if you will. and as far as i know, the parents have been allowed in the room. theyve been quoted saying that they were in the room watching her starve. if terri is so responsive, why havent they brought their own camcorder to tape some of these interactions. i hear you can buy a nice sony at walmart for a decent price.

AND There is PROOF that michael is injecting drugs into her to speed up her death. NO JOKE!

i love a good conspiracy. will the aliens abduct her body if the supreme court doesnt intervene?

[Bart]

Its those computer hacking skills you have, you know....and that delicious bass.

That point is from me, BTW!

or maybe my awesome skills with the bow staff. :D

[Styx]

maybe they got fired because they got caught lying.......



i cant blame him for not allowing the media in the room. he has respect for the family's privacy unlike the parents who have turned into "media whores" if you will. and as far as i know, the parents have been allowed in the room. theyve been quoted saying that they were in the room watching her starve. if terri is so responsive, why havent they brought their own camcorder to tape some of these interactions. i hear you can buy a nice sony at walmart for a decent price.



i love a good conspiracy. will the aliens abduct her body if the supreme court doesnt intervene?

Are you sure you are not my husband posing as Bart in Miami????
Very strange....very strange.....

[Styx]

or maybe my awesome skills with the bow staff. :D

You know, you could always build me a cake...

[Bart]

Are you sure you are not my husband posing as Bart in Miami????


that depends on how hot you are. ;)

[Styx]

that depends on how hot you are. ;)

Last I checked I was 98.6...oh, you mean hot as in good looking......dont know...ask Brick!

Gotta go cook dinner and clean the kitchen before hubby comes home Bartarino...we will quote Napoleon tomorrow, if you like!

[Styx]

Just a quick note to everyone in here....I am having an off topic conversation with Bart to cool it off in here(watch it Bart)...not to be disrespectful to the topic.....did not want yall to think that...

[wolverine652001]

Lawyers for DCF asked Judge George Greer to unseal probate records in the Schiavo case. The state hopes those financial records will allow it to further investigate allegations of abuse of Terri by her husband. Greer has in the past rejected these requests. The judge is expected to decide that issue later Wednesday afternoon.



She can breath on her own!

Terri Schiavo suffered brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped briefly. She can breathe on her own, but has relied on the feeding tube to keep her alive.

[wolverine652001]

maybe they got fired because they got caught lying.......





You can lie on a avidvit and not be in jail for it? Anyone who lies in my state and signs that paper can go to jail for that reason.

[retired]

Over the course of the last 15 years, why haven't ALL of the nurses come to the same conclusion? Why just two of them? I'm sure that over the years she has had numerous nurses in attendance, but just two feel compelled to disagree wihthe doctors?? :confused: :rolleyes:

[Yxboom]

You can lie on a avidvit and not be in jail for it? Anyone who lies in my state and signs that paper can go to jail for that reason.Not in Florida!!! It happens all the time!!! :eek:

Citizens freely lie on affidavits in Florida all the time, at least at the police level. When it finally get to the prosecutor's office, the DA might threaten them with perjury (in order to get them to tell the truth or to recant). :eek:

[wolverine652001]

Not in Florida!!! It happens all the time!!! :eek:

Citizens freely lie on affidavits in Florida all the time, at least at the police level. When it finally get to the prosecutor's office, the DA might threaten them with perjury (in order to get them to tell the truth or to recant). :eek:


Wow, sounds like then FLORIDA has alot of LOOP holes in their laws.


I also heard that Michael has threatened to anyone who tries to take Terri out and get her back on tube and if anyone tries would charge assault and battery on his wife. HOW LAME IS THAT??????? When someone wants to help your WIFE and you want to charge them with assault? COMEON!!!! That dude seriously needs to be shot.

[Jabrim]

Wow, sounds like then FLORIDA has alot of LOOP holes in their laws.


I also heard that Michael has threatened to anyone who tries to take Terri out and get her back on tube and if anyone tries would charge assault and battery on his wife. HOW LAME IS THAT??????? When someone wants to help your WIFE and you want to charge them with assault? COMEON!!!! That dude seriously needs to be shot.

So the appropriate thing to do is to shoot him...? Right, anyway so even though it would be assault and it is right now, his wife. People are getting too upset with their own opinions and beliefs of things. Let's not disrespect Florida as a State based on afidavits (sp) which I'm sure there are many states including everyone elses that hasn't ALWAYS arrested someone for lying on an afidavit.

[Yxboom]

He's right -- Florida is lame. A Florida judge has ordered the execution of a woman who has not committed a capitol crime. In fact, she has not committed any crime at all. She has been sentenced to "death by starvation." Others have pointed out that we don't starve animals to death; why are we starving a human to death? :rolleyes:

Yep, Florida is lame if we allow the judge to kill her. :rolleyes:

I fear for this country if that's the path that the judicial system is going down. Who is next? :eek:

[Jabrim]

He's right -- Florida is lame. A Florida judge has ordered the execution of a woman who has not committed a capitol crime. In fact, she has not committed any crime at all. She has been sentenced to "death by starvation." Others have pointed out that we don't starve animals to death; why are we starving a human to death? :rolleyes:

Yep, Florida is lame if we allow the judge to kill her. :rolleyes:

I fear for this country if that's the path that the judicial system is going down. Who is next? :eek:

Indeed, we apparently live in a lame state. Which law's are completely useless because we're sentencing innocent people to death. Too many people on here living vicariously through these forums ;)

[Mraughh]

Of course Michael Savage, AKA Michael Weiner is a pillar of credibility, as is Dr. Hammesfahr who ostensibly exaimined her. :rolleyes:

Michael became a respiratory technician after the incident.

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm about my favorite raido show? Forsooth knave, I'll challenge thee to a duel! :eek: :D

[wolverine652001]

He's right -- Florida is lame. A Florida judge has ordered the execution of a woman who has not committed a capitol crime. In fact, she has not committed any crime at all. She has been sentenced to "death by starvation." Others have pointed out that we don't starve animals to death; why are we starving a human to death? :rolleyes:

Yep, Florida is lame if we allow the judge to kill her. :rolleyes:

I fear for this country if that's the path that the judicial system is going down. Who is next? :eek:


Exactly... and I kinda feel like **** that the judical system can overturn a President's proposal..

[Delta784]

Has anyone noticed that they keep playing that same tired old video over and over on the news? That tape is HOW many years old? How about showing some updated videos.

The husband hasn't allowed any photos or videos of her for about 3 years. Makes me wonder what he's trying to hide.

[wolverine652001]

The husband hasn't allowed any photos or videos of her for about 3 years. Makes me wonder what he's trying to hide.


Try telling that to Bart. He thinks the opposite.

Micheal wont allow Media or any sort in the room anymore. Michael has shut the doors on alot of people to be able to prove this. If he wants the media and the people to stop accusing of murdering her, why don't he let the family in and a media to prove she's on life support, or whatever it is.


Bart's reply:


i cant blame him for not allowing the media in the room. he has respect for the family's privacy unlike the parents who have turned into "media whores" if you will. and as far as i know, the parents have been allowed in the room. theyve been quoted saying that they were in the room watching her starve. if terri is so responsive, why havent they brought their own camcorder to tape some of these interactions. i hear you can buy a nice sony at walmart for a decent price.

[retired]

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm about my favorite raido show? Forsooth knave, I'll challenge thee to a duel! :eek: :D

Ahhh, I think it was more than a hint. :p ;)

[retired]

Exactly... and I kinda feel like **** that the judical system can overturn a President's proposal..


He is the president, not the King. :rolleyes: You know, three branches of government. The court ruled the action was unconstitutional, they responded to a legal challenge. The judiciary has been doing that since Marbury vs Madison.

[retired]

The husband hasn't allowed any photos or videos of her for about 3 years. Makes me wonder what he's trying to hide.


You don't really think that he has been hiding much from all the medical staffers who have attended to her on a daily basis do you? I wouldn't allow media photos or videos either if she were my wife.

[Bart]

Exactly... and I kinda feel like **** that the judical system can overturn a President's proposal..

its called checks and balances. people have died over in iraq because they had a president who's word overruled everybody else's in that country. now you want them to do the same thing here? :rolleyes:

[Delta784]

You don't really think that he has been hiding much from all the medical staffers who have attended to her on a daily basis do you? I wouldn't allow media photos or videos either if she were my wife.

There are sworn affadvits from nurses who cared for Terri that state she is much more aware than people have been led to believe. These nurses lost their jobs for speaking the truth.

Michael Schiavo is no more Terri's husband than I am at this point. His rights as a husband should have been immediately terminated when he entered into his current common law relationship with his girlfriend, with whom he has children.

[Delta784]

its called checks and balances. people have died over in iraq because they had a president who's word overruled everybody else's in that country. now you want them to do the same thing here? :rolleyes:

Apparently, you've forgotten that Congress approved the war in Iraq? :rolleyes:

[wolverine652001]

There are sworn affadvits from nurses who cared for Terri that state she is much more aware than people have been led to believe. These nurses lost their jobs for speaking the truth.

Michael Schiavo is no more Terri's husband than I am at this point. His rights as a husband should have been immediately terminated when he entered into his current common law relationship with his girlfriend, with whom he has children.





Apparently, you've forgotten that Congress approved the war in Iraq? :rolleyes:




Amen brother. The nurses didn't lie. Micheal wants to keep the money for himself. Sure Terri won't be back to normal, but you don't throw a life like that away for money and girlfriends who have your kids.

Democrat I state again, DONT CARE ABOUT LIFE, ONLY MONEY AND REPUTATION. They are like some of u people on this board who take your GREEN REP power boxes to the extreme.

[Bart]

Apparently, you've forgotten that Congress approved the war in Iraq? :rolleyes:

when i spoke of the president with ultimate authority over his people, i was speaking of saddam. i wasnt referring to our own president like you may believe.

[wolverine652001]

when i spoke of the president with ultimate authority over his people, i was speaking of saddam. i wasnt referring to our own president like you may believe.



You caught me. I didn't see the "they". Sorry. my bad. :rolleyes:

But remember, that country had no laws. They were all made up by Saddam. The UN should of interferred but they refuse to start a war, The United State took the guts to stop Saddam. UN wussed out. The UN wantd to wait.. .. wait.. Bush said.." I'm tired of waiting, let's go!" But we didn't go bc of saddam, we went for OBL. Just on the way, we took out Saddam.

[wolverine652001]

But I do have to say this. We aren't comparing our country to those countries. What law we have, especially in FL, has alot of loop ends that needs to be closed. Saddam is not a great president and is just a big mob boss. Even his son's kill women's husband that the son want to marry. They don't tolerate that crap here in the US.

[Bart]

You caught me. I didn't see the "they". Sorry. my bad. :rolleyes:

But remember, that country had no laws. They were all made up by Saddam. The UN should of interferred but they refuse to start a war, The United State took the guts to stop Saddam. UN wussed out. The UN wantd to wait.. .. wait.. Bush said.." I'm tired of waiting, let's go!" But we didn't go bc of saddam, we went for OBL. Just on the way, we took out Saddam.

my only reason for bringing up iraq was that you commented that the courts shouldnt have the ability to overrule the president. i used iraq as an introspect into what life would be like if there were no checks and balances.

[Styx]

my only reason for bringing up iraq was that you commented that the courts shouldnt have the ability to overrule the president. i used iraq as an introspect into what life would be like if there were no checks and balances.

Good morning Bart....I see a good night sleep has not helped.

I still think its cruel and she will feel some pain even if she is brain dead. Our bodies natural fight or flight response and sensory recepetors are not controlled by the central nervous sytem.....so she is gonna need some morphine to starve to death without any pain....basically she will feel it all. Her Central nervous system own react to help her respond like it should because it is damaged...almost like it camt hear what it is being told to do.

If her hand is placed on a hot stove, she would feel it, but could not flinch or pull away. We can do that because our sensory receptors trigger our CNS to respond by telling our hand to "scoot.....get the hell away from that." Hers cant.

Her entire system will react to the starvation method Michael is using to murder her in a horrifying way...... her CNS will be told by her PNS and SNS to do something and it wont. She will probably die of a system breakdown somewhere in her body due to overwork.....heart attack or something like that...it will be horrible.

I wonder how much pleasure Michael is getting from his power trip and control surge by letting her parents suffer, watch her die and not be able to do anything. He is a scum sucking toe jam licking bastard with no morals and deserves to have the head table in hell seated by Hitler having Pineapples shoved up his *** by Ted Bundy. He is no better.

[retired]

There are sworn affadvits from nurses who cared for Terri that state she is much more aware than people have been led to believe. These nurses lost their jobs for speaking the truth.

Michael Schiavo is no more Terri's husband than I am at this point. His rights as a husband should have been immediately terminated when he entered into his current common law relationship with his girlfriend, with whom he has children.

I think that if he wanted to hide anything, he wouldn't have placed her in several facilities where numerous members of the medical profession have access to her on a daily basis. The one nurse did not los her job for speaking the truth. She lost her job because her emloyer told her not to discuss the situation with the media. She disobeyed that diretive and thus lost her job. At this time how do you know this nurse is speaking the truth anymore than the other medical professionals who have examined her?

While I suppose we feel differently about Michal being her husband, legally he still is. Incidentally, who should have the authority to decide to terminate his rights as a husband because he was with another woman? Who should have the right to terminate anyone's rights as a spouse?

[retired]

Apparently, you've forgotten that Congress approved the war in Iraq? :rolleyes:

They may have approved the military action, but they didn't declare war. Personally I think they were derelict for not accepting their responsibility as the congress.

[Bart]

Good morning Bart....I see a good night sleep has not helped.


a good nights sleep cant always solve all the worlds problems. however, rest easy knowing that its almost over. the supreme court turned down the request to hear the case and gov. bush is barred from forcefully attempting to take custody of schiavo under statutes pertaining to allegations of abuse. i suppose the judge was able to see right through the subterfuge. either way, soon enough, terri will be able to finally rest in peace and the public squabble will end. :(

[wolverine652001]

either way, soon enough, terri will be able to finally rest in peace and the public squabble will end. :(

REST IN PEACE? she's dying BY horrible treatment!
Either way, DONT LET SOMEONE STARVE to death, at least something to speed up the death or just plain insert a lethal injection, but by GOD, don't let someone die painfully!
I don't know why you don't see that starving someone is "finally rest in peace" is a good thing? There are drugs to instantly put someone to death without causing pain.

[Bart]

I don't know why you don't see that starving someone is "finally rest in peace" is a good thing? There are drugs to instantly put someone to death without causing pain.

im not sure why but it doesnt seem lethal injection is an option at this point. if it were, im sure the doctors wouldve administered it by now so they wouldnt have to sit on pins and needles waiting for all the appeals to be exhausted. either way, that girl will be resting in peace despite to being starved to death. once she's in the ground, 15 years of pain will be over.

[Yxboom]

Death by dehydration is one of the most painful forms of death that exist. :(

This kind of treatment is to be expected at a Nazi concentration camp .... but from the United States? And in a hospital? :eek:

[wolverine652001]

It seems like cruel and inhumane treatment to starve someone to death. From what I understand, death by dehydration is one of the most painful forms of death that exist. :(

I know. but Micheal doesn't care how she dies, he wants her dead. And so far, it's a painful starving, no water death.

[retired]

REST IN PEACE? she's dying BY horrible treatment!
Either way, DONT LET SOMEONE STARVE to death, at least something to speed up the death or just plain insert a lethal injection, but by GOD, don't let someone die painfully!
I don't know why you don't see that starving someone is "finally rest in peace" is a good thing? There are drugs to instantly put someone to death without causing pain.

According to several prominent neurologists, she will not experience any pain from the starvation because her cortex is non-functional. Now don't yell at me, I'm just a messenger on this one. :) Disagree with the neurologists. ;)

[retired]

Death by dehydration is one of the most painful forms of death that exist. :(
:eek:

There are medical experts who disagree with you based on her condition.

[Bart]

Death by dehydration is one of the most painful forms of death that exist. :(

This kind of treatment is to be expected at a Nazi concentration camp .... but from the United States? And in a hospital? :eek:

we've got mr drama queen over here. :rolleyes: "death by dehydration" to people like you and me would be cruel. but like the retired said, there are prominent doctors who say she wont feel a thing. the schiavo girl isnt normal by any means. whats bad for us may not be so bad for her.

[Delta784]

there are prominent doctors who say she wont feel a thing.

There are other prominent physicians who say she will feel it. Is this the type of thing where you want to take the chance?

It absolutely infuriates me that murdering pieces of **** like Mumia Abu-Jamal can get endless state & Federal appeals, while someone totally innocent like Terri Schiavo can be tortured to death. :mad:

[bigcop97]

I will just throw my 2 cents in the pot here...

First of all I can only look in from the outside and say what I think. Obviously I am not in the shoes of the people involved. I am not going to pass my judgement regarding this case, just my opinion.

I dont like to think of my loved ones being in the same positions these folks are in...

But looking from the outside...

That disclaimer been said:

My opinion is that I think that it should be the husbands choice what happens. But. I think that it is just absolutely horrible to cut off the food / water supply. Your killing her for all purposes... If your going to do that, just do a lethal injection or some other manner...
She is completely reliant on our help to survive. To knowingly not help her is Neglect. If you have decided to end her "suffering" for gods sake dont do it like that....

Additional disclaimer: (so I dont get torn apart to bad)
This is a tough call, I dont know what I would do if I was in his shoes... I cant ever see saying goodbye voluntarily to my wife... I dont know guys and gals... for me the whole situation is just "tough"

[bigcop97]

According to several prominent neurologists, she will not experience any pain from the starvation because her cortex is non-functional. Now don't yell at me, I'm just a messenger on this one. :) Disagree with the neurologists. ;)

Since that is what is seeming to happen :( , I pray to god your right

[wolverine652001]

Additional disclaimer: (so I dont get torn apart to bad)
This is a tough call, I dont know what I would do if I was in his shoes... I cant ever see saying goodbye voluntarily to my wife... I dont know guys and gals... for me the whole situation is just "tough"



and not to mention, he has GFs and a few of them have KIDS by him. How cold, and have the guts to tell me that isn't cheating.

[Bart]

My opinion is that I think that it should be the husbands choice what happens. But. I think that it is just absolutely horrible to cut off the food / water supply.

i didnt know he had a choice of how she goes. :confused:

[Bart]

and not to mention, he has GFs and a few of them have KIDS by him. How cold, and have the guts to tell me that isn't cheating.

you say GF's as in plural. i didnt read anything about that. i read he had one girlfriend with whom he fathered 2 kids. where did you read he had more than that? the national enquirer or some right-wing christian publication?

[Delta784]

you say GF's as in plural. i didnt read anything about that. i read he had one girlfriend with whom he fathered 2 kids. where did you read he had more than that? the national enquirer or some right-wing christian publication?

Isn't one woman with whom he fathered children enough to demonstrate that he's no longer Terri's husband??? :mad:

I can understand that the guy wants to move on with his life, but just divorce her and leave care up to the parents and siblings, who are more than willing to provide it.

[Yxboom]

Snip...
My opinion is that I think that it should be the husbands choice what happens. The husband has shacked up with a common law wife who has born him a couple of kids. He is no more Terri's husband than I am. (Delta already said that -- just thought I'd point it out again :D ).

There was a time when Democrats represented the underprivileged, but where are they in this case? :eek:

[Delta784]

There was a time when Democrats represented the underprivileged, but where are they in this case? :eek:

For that matter, where are the feminists and the advocates for the disabled??

If Terri Schiavo is allowed to die, it will send us down a slippery slope that I don't even want to think about. What groups of people will be next on the hit list? Autistic kids? Deaf people? I guess it will be whatever group our unelected, unaccountable judiciary decides doesn't have a sufficient quality of life, according to their standards. :mad:

[Yxboom]

This court ordered killing really gets to me.

[wolverine652001]

Isn't one woman with whom he fathered children enough to demonstrate that he's no longer Terri's husband???

I can understand that the guy wants to move on with his life, but just divorce her and leave care up to the parents and siblings, who are more than willing to provide it.



He isn't gonna divorce her, could've divorced her 15 years ago! The only reason he is still with Terri is bc of the ****LOAD of money from the lawsuit.

How can a woman like Terri KNOW she was gonna be brain damaged and tell her husband she does not want to be kept alive? Is there any proof she said that to him DURING her 15 years in a comma? How do you tell someone right before you snap? He claims she said that to him. So after 15 years, and NOW he says that she does NOT want to be alive? He is putting words i her mouth, his money is runningo out he wants her dead so he can keep the rest and I WOULD NOT be surprised that he will LET the Parents pay for the funeral. If I went brain damage, I want my parents to have the right to choose for me, not my wife. Sorry, but at least my parents aren't saving/letting me go for the money, my wife might be in it for the money and I won't tolerate it. I'm not a cash machine for my wife. My parents would NEVER use me for money. I do have a will now, I know I'm 25 now but being a LEO, I could be in a comma anytime or be shot to death. But my parents have the full power over me. Not my gf/fiance/wife (I'm not married but I do have a gf) If my parents are deceased, it would be passed to my brother and sister, if they are deceased, my gf/fiance/wife would be the next on the list.

[Delta784]

How can a woman like Terri KNOW she was gonna be brain damaged and tell her husband she does not want to be kept alive? Is there any proof she said that to him DURING her 15 years in a comma?

If she was actually in a coma, I wouldn't protest letting her die. She has NEVER been in a coma, she is conscious & alert, which makes killing her all the more barbaric.

Years ago, a woman in New Jersey named Karen Ann Quinlan was left in a complete coma due to a mix of alcohol and sedatives. She was completely unresponsive, like she was permanently asleep, and relied on a respirator to breathe for her. Her parents fought for years to "pull the plug", and were eventually successful.

So, we've "advanced" from killing complete vegetables like Karen Ann Quinlan to killing conscious people like Terri Schiavo. What group of disabled people is next on the judiciary hit list? :mad:

[retired]

[QUOTE=wolverine652001]He isn't gonna divorce her, could've divorced her 15 years ago! The only reason he is still with Terri is bc of the ****LOAD of money from the lawsuit.
QUOTE]

So how much money is left from the lawsuit? He also refused a much larger sum of money to divorce her.

[bigcop97]

The husband has shacked up with a common law wife who has born him a couple of kids. He is no more Terri's husband than I am. (Delta already said that -- just thought I'd point it out again :D ).


I did not know that... I guess he has moved on... I dont know enough about this situation to post anything more on it

[wolverine652001]

So how much money is left from the lawsuit? He also refused a much larger sum of money to divorce her.


Do I look like Michael's personal Bank account manager?

[Yxboom]

So how much money is left from the lawsuit? He also refused a much larger sum of money to divorce her.Maybe he still loves his wife? Yeaa, that's it!!! He still loves Terri as his wife!!! And he also loves his live-in girlfriend as his lover!!! He loves his wife and his lover -- that's why he wants his wife dead!!! :eek:

Circular logic. :eek:

[retired]

Do I look like Michael's personal Bank account manager?

I really don't know what you look like, but your'e the one who made the allegation about the money. I assume that since you made that allegation you would know the amount. :confused:

[TXLady]

I just pray that it happens fast. NO ONE knows what she is feeling or is capable of feeling. One group of doctors say one thing and another group the opposite. I pray for her family, too. I know what it's like to watch a loved one die. Under these circumstances I can only imagine their pain is indescribeable. :(

[Delta784]

So how much money is left from the lawsuit? He also refused a much larger sum of money to divorce her.

No one knows for sure, since the Schindlers have been denied access to Terri's financial records, but I've heard the sum of $350,000 mentioned more than once.

As for the million-dollar offer, Michael knows that if he accepted that, he'd look even worse than he does now, if possible.

[retired]

No one knows for sure, since the Schindlers have been denied access to Terri's financial records, but I've heard the sum of $350,000 mentioned more than once.

As for the million-dollar offer, Michael knows that if he accepted that, he'd look even worse than he does now, if possible.

It's in the court records how much was received, and how much went toward care of Teri. Most of the funds have been exhausted at this point according to news reports.

The question is why should they have access to her or his financial records?

[Delta784]

It's in the court records how much was received

Over $1 million.

and how much went toward care of Teri

That would be $0.00 total. The minute that Michael received the lawsuit settlement, he placed a DNR on Terri and stopped all physical therapy.

The question is why should they have access to her or his financial records?

Because that would go a long way towards proving that Michael doesn't give a **** about her, other than her being a paycheck.

[wolverine652001]

Over $1 million.



That would be $0.00 total. The minute that Michael received the lawsuit settlement, he placed a DNR on Terri and stopped all physical therapy.



Because that would go a long way towards proving that Michael doesn't give a **** about her, other than her being a paycheck.


That sounds about right.. I heard a 1993 interview with Terri's father and Terri's brother on the O'Reilly factor tonite.. said that too, Micheal denied any physical therapy to Terri to see if she could do it. Micheal voted NO. When in fact the doctor back in 1993 said she has a chance of coming out of that and she can do it if she is put on physical therapy, but Micheal didn't want that.

[retired]

Over $1 million.



That would be $0.00 total. The minute that Michael received the lawsuit settlement, he placed a DNR on Terri and stopped all physical therapy.



Because that would go a long way towards proving that Michael doesn't give a **** about her, other than her being a paycheck.

$750,000 went directly into a trust fund for the care of Teri. He was and still is unable to touch any of that money, whatever little is left.

[Delta784]

Terri right after her injury, when she received physical therapy;

http://www.terrisfight.net/images/terriprint.jpg

After 8+ years with no therapy, as ordered by Michael Schiavo;

http://www.terrisfight.net/images/index.1.jpg

Can anyone with a room temperature IQ not see the difference??? :mad:

[Bart]

Terri right after her injury, when she received physical therapy;

http://www.terrisfight.net/images/terriprint.jpg

After 8+ years with no therapy, as ordered by Michael Schiavo;

http://www.terrisfight.net/images/index.1.jpg

Can anyone with a room temperature IQ not see the difference??? :mad:

how do you know she wouldnt have looked like that even with therapy?

[Bart]

That would be $0.00 total. The minute that Michael received the lawsuit settlement, he placed a DNR on Terri and stopped all physical therapy.



where do you guys get your information from? according an article in the fort lauderdale sun-sentinel (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/la-na-michael24mar24,0,2141163.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines), "The 1993 medical malpractice award in response to a petition filed by Michael Schiavo on his wife's behalf created a trust in which $750,000 was deposited for Terri Schiavo's medical care and upkeep and $300,000 went to her husband for his suffering and loss. Most of the treatment funds have been spent in the nearly 12 years since the award."

ive just cited a quote from a reputable news source. i have yet to see anybody else who have made allegations of neglect on the husband's part do the same. :rolleyes: that leads me to believe most of you are just talking out of your *****es.

[Yxboom]

Snip...
That leads me to believe most of you are just talking out of your *****es.That's like saying that he loves his wife (Terri) as much as the woman he's shacked up with. :eek:

Who does he love more -- his wife or his live-in lover? Since he wants his wife dead, I think that we all know the answer to that question. :rolleyes:

[wolverine652001]

That's like saying that he loves his wife (Terri) as much as the woman he's shacked up with. :eek:

Who does he love more -- his wife or his live-in lover? Since he wants his wife dead, I think that we all know the answer to that question. :rolleyes:



If you divorce her, You won't get much more money out of her. If you let her die, Micheal can recieve more money from insurance from Terri IF she has any Life Insurance on her.

[Bart]

That's like saying that he loves his wife (Terri) as much as the woman he's shacked up with. :eek:

Who does he love more -- his wife or his live-in lover? Since he wants his wife dead, I think that we all know the answer to that question. :rolleyes:

again, with no credible sources to cite, it looks like youre talking out of your *****.

[Yxboom]

again, with no credible sources to cite, it looks like youre talking out of your *****.Pot calling kettle. ;)

Do you even know what a credible source is??? A credible source is anything that agrees with your point of view, right? < slaps forehead >

Or maybe a credible source is anything that is upheld by the courts, such as the Nazi courts that upheld the "deaths by starvation" in the concentration camps, all for the good of the state because they didn't fit the profile of someone who is worthy of living. What a dangerous and slippery slope this is. :eek:

Is it a credible statement to accuse someone of "speaking out of their *****"? Does that sort of a statement have any credibility? What does it indicate about the person who is making that sort of statement? How do you spell Ad Hominem? :eek:

Or maybe a credible source is a professional journal? ;)

[Bart]

Pot calling kettle. ;)

Do you even know what a credible source is???

sure. i consider a major newspaper a credible source. i provided a link to the article where i got my information regarding the money schiavo claimed in the lawsuit and how that money was disbursed. from what i understand, the sun sentinel obtain that information through court records.

Is it a credible statement to accuse someone of "speaking out of their *****"? Does that sort of a statement have any credibility?

i made that "talking out of the *****" statement in response to those making allegations that schiavo stands to claim millions from the original lawsuit in the event of his wife's death. i challenge anybody to present an article from a credible source supporting that assertion.

[Yxboom]

sure. i consider a major newspaper a credible source. i provided a link to the article where i got my information regarding the money schiavo claimed in the lawsuit and how that money was disbursed. from what i understand, the sun sentinel obtain that information through court records.Okay, now I understand your reasoning. The newspaper is credible by your standards. LOL :p

[Yxboom]

A news story. < scratches head >

Here is a cut from a news story:Snip...
The Florida governor and DCF chief Lucy Hadi held an impromptu news conference to announce that they were considering sheltering Schiavo under the state's adult protection law. The department has been besieged, officials say, by thousands of calls alleging Schiavo is the victim of abuse or neglect.
Source (http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/11233427.htm)

[gottaloveme]

This whole thing is sad. Bottom line at this point is let the woman die. I can't say starving her is the best but assisted suicide is illegal so there seems to be no other option. The question I don't understand is if the husband wanted to move on and disagreed with the parents, why not just divorce her, move on and let her parents care for her? Either he truly is trying to uphold her wishes or he has another agenda. One can only hope she passes quickly and hopefully without pain.

I do think that Congress getting involved and all the legal crap that just went on was not right. It has nothing to do with this case, it has to do with how the legal system was manipulated and how power was shifted for political agendas. Hope Terri is in peace.

[Bart]

A news story. < scratches head >

Here is a cut from a news story:

why didnt you show the follow up to that news story you posted? why didnt you show the part where judge greer dismissed the abuse charges as frivilous and refused the state's request?

[Bart]

Okay, now I understand your reasoning. The newspaper is credible by your standards. LOL :p

in this case, the news papers have been credible since their information is coming straight from court records. you still havent told me where you get your information regarding assertions that the husband is allowing schiavo to die for his personal gain. have you ever heard that old saying "put up or shut up"? :D

[Yxboom]

Snip...
have you ever heard that old saying "put up or shut up"? :DSimply put: You are pro-death.

The United States fought against the pro-death agenda of the Nazi regime. The Nazi judicial system declared it legal to starve people to death in their concentration camps. While a government (any government) may declare "death by starvation" to be legal, it will never be moral. It's so sad that Nazi principles are slowly creeping their way into our judicial system.

While the pro-death agenda may be declared legal by a Florida judge, it will never be moral and, in the bigger picture, those who are involved in the execution of innocent citizens will eventually be held accountable to a Higher Authority. Someday, but that day is obviously not today.

The execution of innocent citizens by legal authorities is Nazism-returned, plain and simple. Once a government begins executing innocent citizens (by court order), then the precedent will open the door for more legal [sic] executions that lack moral judgement. :eek:

German Nazism was not defeated from within, but had to be defeated from without. It was the United States that eventually crushed German Nazism from without. Sadly, Nazism has slowly crept into the American judical system and it will not be overturned from within. It will only be overturned by a Higher Authority from without. :eek:

Many German citizens supported Nazi death tactics. Others simply refused to resist Nazi death tactics because they didn't want to break the law themselves by resisting the Nazis. Other German citizens simply turned a blind eye. It's ironic that we see a similar pattern developing in the United States today. Once "death by starvation" is legally [sic] mandated by judicial authorities, then the door will only open wider.

I don't think that the framers of our constitution ever envisioned, sanctioned or proposed "death by starvation" of citizens. This demonstrates how far to the left our American judiciary has departed from our constitution, which grants the pursuit of "life and liberty." :eek:

These are certainly strange times that we live in.

[retired]

Simply put: You are pro-death.

The United States fought against the pro-death agenda of the Nazi regime. The Nazi judicial system declared it legal to starve people to death in their concentration camps. While a government (any government) may declare "death by starvation" to be legal, it will never be moral. It's so sad that Nazi principles are slowly creeping their way into our judicial system.

While the pro-death agenda may be declared legal by a Florida judge, it will never be moral and, in the bigger picture, those who are involved in the execution of innocent citizens will eventually be held accountable to a Higher Authority. Someday, but that day is obviously not today.

The execution of innocent citizens by legal authorities is Nazism-returned, plain and simple. Once a government begins executing innocent citizens (by court order), then the precedent will open the door for more legal [sic] executions that lack moral judgement. :eek:

German Nazism was not defeated from within, but had to be defeated from without. It was the United States that eventually crushed German Nazism from without. Sadly, Nazism has slowly crept into the American judical system and it will not be overturned from within. It will only be overturned by a Higher Authority from without. :eek:

Many German citizens supported Nazi death tactics. Others simply refused to resist Nazi death tactics because they didn't want to break the law themselves by resisting the Nazis. Other German citizens simply turned a blind eye. It's ironic that we see a similar pattern developing in the United States today. Once "death by starvation" is legally [sic] mandated by judicial authorities, then the door will only open wider.

I don't think that the framers of our constitution ever envisioned, sanctioned or proposed "death by starvation" of citizens. This demonstrates how far to the left our American judiciary has departed from our constitution, which grants the pursuit of "life and liberty." :eek:

These are certainly strange times that we live in.

You make reference to the Nazis about starvation who were facists, and to the right, and then you blame the left for starvation. :confused: You then say that Nazi principles are creeping into our judicial system, but you lastly blame the liberal left for how far the judiciary has departed from the constitution. Which is it? :confused:

[Yxboom]

You make reference to the Nazis about starvation who were facists, and to the right, and then you blame the left for starvation. :confused: You then say that Nazi principles are creeping into our judicial system, but you lastly blame the liberal left for how far the judiciary has departed from the constitution. :confused:If my writing seemed like it blames the "right," then please forgive me, as that was not my intention. :eek:

IMO, Nazism (and the pro-death campaign) is on the "left." :eek:

[Yxboom]

Some people only get it if the news said it first.

There are two sworn statements regarding the fact that Terri attempted to speak and they are not from her parents. Here (http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html) is a list of actual affidavits and several sites you can read them. Forget what the news has said and make your own decision.

[Bart]

Simply put: You are pro-death.


ok, so you say im "pro-death". what does my opinion have to do with anything? all youre doing is dancing around the real issue being that you cant come up with facts along with a credible source to back it up. i dont mind if somebody states an opinion. however, ive seen alot of people here make statements and try to pass them off as facts without any evidence. :rolleyes:

[Bart]

Some people only get it if the news said it first.

There are two sworn statements regarding the fact that Terri attempted to speak and they are not from her parents. Here (http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html) is a list of actual affidavits and several sites you can read them. Forget what the news has said and make your own decision.

the courts have reviewed those sworn statements and have ruled them to be of no credibility.

[Yxboom]

ok, so you say im "pro-death". what does my opinion have to do with anything? Well, for starters, your opinion is valuable at least to you. :Dall youre doing is dancing around the real issue being that you cant come up with facts along with a credible source to back it up. Apparently, you're not reading my posts. But for your sake, I'll re-post what's already been posted for you. :)

Here ya go:Some people only get it if the news said it first.

There are two sworn statements regarding the fact that Terri attempted to speak and they are not from her parents. Here (http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html) is a list of actual affidavits and several sites you can read them. Forget what the news has said and make your own decision.You're welcome. :)i dont mind if somebody states an opinion. however, ive seen alot of people here make statements and try to pass them off as facts without any evidence. :rolleyes:Pot calling kettle. ;) :eek:

[Yxboom]

the courts have reviewed those sworn statements and have ruled them to be of no credibility.Source please? Or are we supposed to take your word for it, simply because you said it? :eek:

You made a blanket statement that all of those affidavits have already been reviewed by the court. How convenient of you to make a blanket statement. You won't be able to find a source to back it up -- and you know it. :eek:

Some of the affidavits of neuro-surgeons were either not allowed into the court or were given no credability or were not allowed in the appeal. That smacks of a "pick-n-choose" pro-death agenda by a pro-death judge (the one who ordered her execution via "death by starvation"). :rolleyes:

During the appeal, nothing new was allowed to be heard by the appellate court. The only thing that was allowed to be reviewed was what the pro-death judge allowed. Thus, affidavits from neuro-surgeons who said that Terri is not in a persistent vegetative state... and who said that she could make vast improvements with therapy... were not allowed into the appellate review. Welcome to the State of Florida. Outsiders don't understand the way it works here. :rolleyes:

Hence, the "death by starvation" sentence was upheld. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't starve my dog to death, let alone a human being that is made in the image of God. :eek:

[Bart]

Source please? Or are we supposed to take your word for it, simply because you said it? :eek:

You made a blanket statement that all of those affidavits have already been reviewed by the court.

youre right. i can admit when im wrong. i apologize for using a bad choice of words. i should have said statements similar to those you provided has been disregarded as not being credible. take for instance the recent statement by dr. cheshire. which says that schiavo is not in a vegatative state but in fact is minimally conscious. according to an article in the miami herald (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/11215365.htm), other doctors discredited cheshire's findings. judging by the way the courts have consistently ruled against schiavo's parents, appearantly the courts agree that cheshire is a quack.

furthermore, schiavo's own parents made statements in court saying that terri attempted to speak her wishes to stay alive in the days before the tube was removed. in another article published in the miami herald (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/11239738.htm), terri's parents stated in court that terri uttered the words "AHHHHHH" and "WAAAAA". terri's parents interpreted those sounds as terri saying, "i want to live." again, judging by the way the courts have ruled, the courts feel that even that statement is frivilous.

[retired]

Another questionable character who filed an affidavit is Dr. William Hammesfahr. He has been censored by the Florida Department of Health for false, deceptive, or misleading advertising as well as failure to practice medicine with the level of care, skill, and ttreatment which is recognized by a reasonable prudent physician.

He also advertises his "Medical Miracles" in the National Enquirer Tabloid. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Interceptor]

Without reading through several pages, here are my thoughts:

-She did not have anything stating that she did not want to be kept alive. What ever you call that paper work.

-we are going off of her husbands word. This coming from a man who is shacked up and has kids with another woman while his wife is in a coma. Do we REALLY believe he has her best interest at heart?

-I was taught that an with an unconcious person, there is an implied consent that they want to be helped. Why would that not be a factor now?

-If I were to not feed or water my dog, I would be arrested for animal cruelty.

-Where does a judge get off deciding who lives and who dies in this matter? This is running right beside putting old folks and retarded people to sleep because "its better for them".

-Last I heard on an interview with her brother, if the family tries to give her some ice chips, they will be arrested. For what??? What is the charge?

I hate to say it here, but if that was my daughter, I think I would have to take one for the team, and take her husband out of the equation.

I became a police officer to help people and defend the helpless. Not watch helplessly while innocent people are left to die by starvation.

[Yxboom]

Snip...
-If I were to not feed or water my dog, I would be arrested for animal cruelty.

-Where does a judge get off deciding who lives and who dies in this matter? This is running right beside putting old folks and retarded people to sleep because "its better for them".

-Last I heard on an interview with her brother, if the family tries to give her some ice chips, they will be arrested. For what??? What is the charge?

I became a police officer to help people and defend the helpless. Not watch helplessly while innocent people are left to die by starvation.Very well said. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. :)

[wolverine652001]

Without reading through several pages, here are my thoughts:

-She did not have anything stating that she did not want to be kept alive. What ever you call that paper work.

-we are going off of her husbands word. This coming from a man who is shacked up and has kids with another woman while his wife is in a coma. Do we REALLY believe he has her best interest at heart?

-I was taught that an with an unconcious person, there is an implied consent that they want to be helped. Why would that not be a factor now?

-If I were to not feed or water my dog, I would be arrested for animal cruelty.

-Where does a judge get off deciding who lives and who dies in this matter? This is running right beside putting old folks and retarded people to sleep because "its better for them".

-Last I heard on an interview with her brother, if the family tries to give her some ice chips, they will be arrested. For what??? What is the charge?

I hate to say it here, but if that was my daughter, I think I would have to take one for the team, and take her husband out of the equation.

I became a police officer to help people and defend the helpless. Not watch helplessly while innocent people are left to die by starvation.

NO KIDDING. I still can't believe heartless bastards. Wait til one of the federal judges go through the same situation, I wouldn't be surprised they would definately change the law or go out of their way to save their wife, children, grandkids in a life or death situation. Just for now, they haven't experience it to know that it does matter.

Again, we go to jail for starving animals and yet her husband isn't gonna divorce bc he is in it for the money. If he wasn't in it for the money, then he could of divorced her and marry his live in girl and kid. But he wants more money, and once Terri dies, more money from insurance.

[Bart]

Without reading through several pages, here are my thoughts:

-She did not have anything stating that she did not want to be kept alive. What ever you call that paper work.

i dont have a living will (at least not yet), but my friends and family know that i wouldnt want to live as a vegetable. just because it aint in writting, doesnt mean i dont want it to happen.

-we are going off of her husbands word. This coming from a man who is shacked up and has kids with another woman while his wife is in a coma. Do we REALLY believe he has her best interest at heart?

i dont think one thing has to do with the other. appearantly, neither do the courts.

-I was taught that an with an unconcious person, there is an implied consent that they want to be helped. Why would that not be a factor now?

appearantly, terri at some point stated that she would not want to be helped if found in this situation. i guess once somebody expresses that wish, implied consent to be helped is no longer.

-If I were to not feed or water my dog, I would be arrested for animal cruelty.

not if a judge gave you permission to do so.

-Where does a judge get off deciding who lives and who dies in this matter? This is running right beside putting old folks and retarded people to sleep because "its better for them".

who should the decision have been left to? the husband or the parents? how about politians? if its left to the husband, the "right to lifers" start bitching and crying. if its left to the family, the "right to die" people will be up in arms.

-Last I heard on an interview with her brother, if the family tries to give her some ice chips, they will be arrested. For what??? What is the charge?

i didnt hear anything about that but i would imagine it would be contempt of court since the judge ruled she should not be fed.

I hate to say it here, but if that was my daughter, I think I would have to take one for the team, and take her husband out of the equation.

you'd be taking more than one for the team. you'd probably be taking it up the ***** a few times a day. you know what they say happens to cops in prison.

I became a police officer to help people and defend the helpless. Not watch helplessly while innocent people are left to die by starvation.

cmon, who are you trying to kid. thats what you tell the oral board when youre trying to get hired on as a cop. you became a cop for the paycheck just like the rest of us. its either that or you just wanted a job where you had power and authority. :D

[retired]

[QUOTE=Interceptor]

I became a police officer to help people and defend the helpless.QUOTE]

You're the only person I know of in LE that became a cop for that reason. ;)

[Delta784]

appearantly, terri at some point stated that she would not want to be helped if found in this situation. i guess once somebody expresses that wish, implied consent to be helped is no longer.

No, she apparently didn't.

Trudy Capone affadavit. (http://www.hospicepatients.org/trudycapone-05-09-01-affidavit-re-terri-schiavo-michael.pdf)

cmon, who are you trying to kid. thats what you tell the oral board when youre trying to get hired on as a cop. you became a cop for the paycheck just like the rest of us. its either that or you just wanted a job where you had power and authority.

I, and I suspect most other cops, didn't initially get on the job for money or power. We really did want to help people and put bad guys away, the fact that after 5+ years we usually realize the futility of it doesn't change the reasons why we became cops in the first place.

[wolverine652001]

No, she apparently didn't.

Trudy Capone affadavit. (http://www.hospicepatients.org/trudycapone-05-09-01-affidavit-re-terri-schiavo-michael.pdf)



I, and I suspect most other cops, didn't initially get on the job for money or power. We really did want to help people and put bad guys away, the fact that after 5+ years we usually realize the futility of it doesn't change the reasons why we became cops in the first place.


I became a cop bc I obey the law and can't stand people getting away with crimes. I'm not in it for the money, shoot, my first deputy job was $9.00 an hour and I still worked there.

[Mraughh]

I've been wondering when either this would crop up or read that Michael got whacked by someone.


(CNN) -- Authorities said a North Carolina man was arrested Friday by FBI agents on charges of soliciting the murder of a judge and the husband of Terri Schiavo, the severely brain-damaged woman at the center of a legal and moral tug of war.

Authorities said Richard Alan Meywes of Fairview, North Carolina, offered $250,000 for the killing of Michael Schiavo and another $50,000 for the death of Circuit Court Judge George Greer, who ordered Schiavo's feeding tube removed a week ago.

Meywes was arrested without incident at his home about 5 p.m. on charges of solicitation of murder and sending threatening communications, authorities said.

He is expected to make an initial appearance Monday in U.S. District Court in Asheville. He will remain in the custody of U.S. marshals until then, authorities said.

A conviction on the charges could bring up to 15 years in prison and up to $500,000 in fines.

The charges were announced by the two lead prosecutors on the case: Paul Perez, U.S. attorney for the Middle District of Florida; and Gretchen Shappert, U.S. attorney for the Western District of North Carolina.

An affidavit filed in support of the charges alleges that Meywes wrote an e-mail Tuesday that said a "bounty with a price tag of $250,000 has been taken out on the head of Michael Schiavo." It also alleges he said an "additional $50,000 has been offered for the elimination of the judge who ruled against Terry in Florida," an apparent reference to Terri Schiavo.

The affidavit also says the same e-mail refers to the recent killings of a judge in Atlanta and family members of a federal judge in Chicago.

Greer, a Pinellas County circuit judge, has been under the protection of two U.S. marshals at all times in recent weeks due to increased threats against his life by those unhappy with his handling of the Schiavo case.

"Mr. Meywes' use of the Internet to convey threats and solicit violent acts is a clear violation of federal law," Perez said in a written statement.

"Regardless of any one person's stance on the complex and heartfelt issues involved in Ms. Schiavo's case, the matter must be resolved within the bounds of our democratic system and rule of law," the statement read. "The use of threats and other scare tactics cannot and will not be tolerated."

Shappert said, "Threats made in interstate commerce will not be ignored by federal law enforcement."

Authorities said the case was a joint investigation by the FBI's Tampa and Charlotte offices, and the Sheriff's Department of Pinellas County, Florida.

[Interceptor]

cmon, who are you trying to kid. thats what you tell the oral board when youre trying to get hired on as a cop. you became a cop for the paycheck just like the rest of us. its either that or you just wanted a job where you had power and authority. :D

Just because my reasons are different form yours doesn't make them wrong. If I were in this for the money, I damn sure would have chosen something that pays better. If you are that shallow that you're just in it for power and authority, hey, good for you. You police your way and I'll police mine. So you and the oral board can stick it. :p

[Styx]

She will die soon and at least they are giving her morphine for the pain.

We can fight back and forth on this one, but in the end.... she will die.
At this point, we can only pray. if you do that. If not, just offer a pleasant thought for her and her family. It is out of human hands at this point....

Hope everyone had a Happy Easter..a day fillled with new hope and maybe a fresh start for some. Go out and write a power of attorney and living will; in some states you dont even need an attorney, just witnesses. Read up on that and make sure to write specifics....its sad and certainly not something we want to think about, but thats life. Talk to you friends, family , and spouse or SO's.....they need to know what you want.

Stay safe.

[BrickCop]

She will die soon and at least they are giving her morphine for the pain.


The Doctors are giving her morphine now? I guess that disproves all the self professed experts who said that this woman's death by dehydration and starvation would be painless. :mad:

[Styx]

The Doctors are giving her morphine now? I guess that disproves all the self professed experts who said that this woman's death by dehydration and starvation would be painless. :mad:

Well that is what I read in two seperate sources....could be a load of malarky for taming of the public....who knows. I hope it is true, though.

[Bart]

If you are that shallow that you're just in it for power and authority, hey, good for you.

im here for the paycheck. they can have the power and authority. those things dont pay my bills.

You police your way and I'll police mine. So you and the oral board can stick it. :p

i love how you come off as soooooo righteous. you must be a rookie. :p

[Styx]

I just read that her father is afraid the doctors will give her an over dose of Morphine to speed up the process. He is nervous and sad; I dont blame him for being worried. When she dies, they cant order an autopsy without the husbands ok, right......so she could be killed with an overdose to speed up the dying process, and the family could never find out what really killed her, right?

Will C.O.D. be listed as starvation...or what? Sorry for being so morbidly curious; its just all so sad and complicated.

I should just stop reading about it.

[Interceptor]

im here for the paycheck. they can have the power and authority. those things dont pay my bills.



i love how you come off as soooooo righteous. you must be a rookie. :p

You must be one of those know it alls I was warned about :rolleyes:

[retired]

im here for the paycheck. they can have the power and authority. those things dont pay my bills.

i love how you come off as soooooo righteous. you must be a rookie. :p



My guess is that he is a rookie. :cool:

[retired]

I just read that her father is afraid the doctors will give her an over dose of Morphine to speed up the process. He is nervous and sad; I dont blame him for being worried. When she dies, they cant order an autopsy without the husbands ok, right......so she could be killed with an overdose to speed up the dying process, and the family could never find out what really killed her, right?

Will C.O.D. be listed as starvation...or what? Sorry for being so morbidly curious; its just all so sad and complicated.

I should just stop reading about it.

I have also read that her father pulled the plug on his mother a few years ago. :rolleyes:

[Interceptor]

And what if I am? I was an officer for two years, and I have been out for over 5. I've spent the last 7 months going through night classes and weekend classes to get my cert back. Not an easy task on top of a regular 8 hour job. If I didn't believe in what I am doing, I wouldn't have gone through all that crap a second time. Experience wise, sure, I'm a rookie. I still stick with my beliefs regardless. I'm not righteous, I just have a very focused view on things, and to me somethings are very black and white. In this case, this is just wrong, no matter what a judge says.

So keep on laughing at the rookie. ;)

[retired]

So keep on laughing at the rookie. ;)

If you say so. ;) :p :D :D

[Delta784]

im here for the paycheck. they can have the power and authority. those things dont pay my bills.



i love how you come off as soooooo righteous. you must be a rookie. :p

I'm also here for the paycheck, but that's not why I became a cop. I don't know of any cops that came on the job with the sole motivation of money. After a few years, the futility of trying to save the world set in, and then it became about the money.

[retired]

After a few years, the futility of trying to save the world set in, and then it became about the money.

Now you and I agree. ;) ;)

[Yxboom]

I'm also here for the paycheck, but that's not why I became a cop. I don't know of any cops that came on the job with the sole motivation of money. After a few years, the futility of trying to save the world set in, and then it became about the money.Many years ago, I was making about 40k a year as a civilian, which was a lot of money in those days (today it's nothing), but I quit my civilian job to become a sworn officer for a paltry 18k per year. However, it sounds like LE was a "financial step up" for Bart when he finally got hired as a cop. Some people simply don't know how to make money in the civilian world and, consequently, LE meets all of their financial needs. Without their cop-job, they would be bagging groceries or doing something similar. LE gives them their identity, along with a paycheck. :eek:

[Yxboom]

We treat our dogs better than Terri. We arrest people for not taking care of their animals, yet we are starving Terry to death via dehydration. :(

Here is a case-in-point:

Two charged with animal cruelty

NORTH PORT -- A North Port couple has been charged with felony animal cruelty Saturday after their dog was run over and they did not seek medical attention because they were going on vacation.

Manuel, 41, and Sandra Menedez, 44, were released from the Sarasota County Jail Saturday on $1,000 bond each.

The arrests stem from an investigation that began in November after the dog sitter took "Ha Ha," a small mixed-breed female dog to the vet for care. The dog sitter told police that Manuel Menedez had accidentally run over the dog. Instead of seeking veterinary treatment, Menedez picked up the dog and put her in the garage. The Menedezs left for vacation the next day.

"Ha Ha" was unable to stand on all four legs and appeared to have an injury to her right rear leg. "Ha Ha" was taken to an emergency vet clinic where she was diagnosed as being underweight and with a fractured right hip and severe flea infestation. Four days later, the dog was taken to the Ashton Animal Clinic in Sarasota and was prescribed pain medication for 14 days and cage rest for eight weeks.

"Ha Ha" was returned to her owners three days later.

The next day, investigators met with Sandra Menedez who told police she knew "Ha Ha" was injured, but did not seek care because the family was going on vacation the following day. Manuel Menedez also said he knew the dog was injured, but didn't take the dog to the vet because it would have disrupted the family's plans.

You can e-mail Renee LePere at lepere@sun-herald.com

source (http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/032905/tp4np11.htm?date=032905&story=tp4np11.htm)

[Styx]

I have also read that her father pulled the plug on his mother a few years ago. :rolleyes:
Are you being a smart *** or is that true?

[Bart]

Somebody in our Goverment take a stand for whats right and reinsert that feeding tube and allow GOD to take Terri in his time not ours. :(

the courts have rebuffed schiavo's parents at every turn. maybe thats god's way of saying its time to let her die. :D

[retired]

Are you being a smart *** or is that true?

When have you ever known me to be a smart-***? :eek:

Tom Delay did the same thing to his father.

November 2003:


AMY GOODMAN: You were also joined by Suzanne Goldenberg of the Guardian. You wrote a very interesting piece, but it was more than a year ago, that found that Terri's father himself, Mr. Schindler, decided to turn off the life support for his own mother, who was ill with pneumonia for a week. Can you talk about that?

SUZANNE GOLDENBERG: Yes, he did. I spent about a day -- the large part of the day with the Schindler

[retired]

March 27, 2005
Tom DeLay Let Father Die in 1988
One of the self-righteous Republicans at the forefront of political efforts to restore Terri Schiavo's feeding tubes was Tom DeLay. He accused Michael Schiavo of "barbarism" and worse for wanting to end the extraordinary medical steps used to keep Terri alive. Yet, DeLay did much the same with his own father.

The Los Angeles Times reveals:

"There was no point to even really talking about it," Maxine DeLay, the congressman's 81-year-old widowed mother, recalled in an interview last week. "There was no way [Charles] wanted to live like that. Tom knew

[Styx]

Thanks retired....I am ashamed that I called you a smart ***.
I was not taught to be disrepectful to my elders, you know !

[retired]

Thanks retired....I am ashamed that I called you a smart ***.
I was not taught to be disrepectful to my elders, you know !

What is this "elder" crap? :p You should be ashamed of that remark. :D :D

[Styx]

What is this "elder" crap? :p You should be ashamed of that remark. :D :D
No...the word elder is one reserved for those who have endured years of hardship, thus knowledge. They deserve our highest level of respect. That is the law of the land and I am a law abiding citizen, oh nobel and wise retired one.

[Bart]

No...the word elder is one reserved for those who have endured years of hardship, thus knowledge.

you gotta remember, retired was a liutenant. he didnt endure hardship. he dispensed it. :D

[Styx]

you gotta remember, retired was a liutenant. he didnt endure hardship. he dispensed it. :D
Well, he had to endure something before he became LT....he didnt just snap his fingers and Vogue his way into that rank, you know!

Sometimes you have to kick some butt to get the respect you deserve.

[retired]

No...the word elder is one reserved for those who have endured years of hardship, thus knowledge. They deserve our highest level of respect. That is the law of the land and I am a law abiding citizen, oh nobel and wise retired one.

The longer you are on this board, the more intelligent you become. ;) You have the best insight of anyone on this board. :) You are to be commended Styx. ;) ;)

[retired]

you gotta remember, retired was a liutenant. he didnt endure hardship. he dispensed it. :D

And I thought that you were an ally? :confused: :rolleyes:

I'll have you know I was a very loving, caring, and compasionate Lt. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Just ask the guys I fired....ummm, I mean helped. :eek:

[Bart]

he didnt just snap his fingers and Vogue his way into that rank, you know!


sure he did. i read in the another thread about him being a professional model. retired is one of those people who made it on their good looks.

[Bart]

And I thought that you were an ally? :confused: :rolleyes:

I'll have you know I was a very loving, caring, and compasionate Lt. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Just ask the guys I fired....ummm, I mean helped. :eek:

LOL. i am your friend. only because you werent my LT. if you were, we definitely wouldnt be on good terms. :D

[retired]

LOL. i am your friend. only because you werent my LT. if you were, we definitely wouldnt be on good terms. :D


That hurt, that really hurt. :( You have no idea how much I wish right now I were your Lt. :eek: :p :D

[Yxboom]

the courts have rebuffed schiavo's parents at every turn. maybe thats god's way of saying its time to let her die. :DThe Nazi authorities rebuffed the Jews at every turn and they starved many of them to death, but God certainly had nothing to do with it.

[retired]

The Nazi authorities rebuffed the Jews at every turn and they starved many of them to death, but God certainly had nothing to do with it.

Why did he allow them to do it? :confused:

[Bart]

The Nazi authorities rebuffed the Jews at every turn and they starved many of them to death, but God certainly had nothing to do with it.

how do you know? maybe god was ****ed off at what the jews did to jesus. :D

[Bart]

That hurt, that really hurt. :( You have no idea how much I wish right now I were your Lt. :eek: :p :D

i dont think that would be so bad. at least you can take a ball breaking as well as you can dish it out. :)

[Delta784]

This isn't over yet. A Federal Appeals Court has agreed to a hearing to reinsert the feeding tube.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151777,00.html

[Mraughh]

Too little too late though in regards to the appeal?
Tom Delaneys father was not the same situation as Terri either. Hypocritical, possibly, doing the right thing? definitly.

[Delta784]

Too little too late though in regards to the appeal?

There is only hope left, at this point. :(

[Yxboom]

If Terry were to be hydrated today, then she would be just fine. We can live without food for 30 to 50 days, but without hydration, we die quickly.

I still can't believe that the court is dehydrating a human to death. These are strange times that we live in.

[Styx]

how do you know? maybe god was ****ed off at what the jews did to jesus. :D
The Romans killed Jesus; the Jews just sat back, silently and watched in fear. They more than likely heckled and cheered as Jesus struggled and died..it was conformity at its best.

This is a whole different thread all together.......

[tk0727]

I have to say one thing for this poor woman.. She's a fighter.. I cannot believe she's still hanging on with what they are doing to her..
I mean, if she didn't have a WILL to live, I think she might have passed already.. What after 12 days? She must be hanging on to something...

[retired]

[QUOTE=tk0727]
I mean, if she didn't have a WILL to live, I think she might have passed already.. QUOTE]

I'm not a neurologist, but from what I have read, she doesn't have any celebral cortex left, thus she doesn't know what a will is or for that matter doesn't know anything. This is just what I have read about the subject, not a personal diagnosis.

[tk0727]

[QUOTE=tk0727]
I mean, if she didn't have a WILL to live, I think she might have passed already.. QUOTE]

I'm not a neurologist, but from what I have read, she doesn't have any celebral cortex left, thus she doesn't know what a will is or for that matter doesn't know anything. This is just what I have read about the subject, not a personal diagnosis.

OH.. well then her body is just hanging on then.. I haven't read up that much on it.. I just feel bad for her

[VSP_Troop]

This woman has been dead for years IMO. If someone gets to the point where a common house plant has a more active life, than its time to pull the plug. Prior to her coma, she went several minutes without oxygen to her brain.... there is no chance of recovery, her brain is gone. I can't imagine anyone who would want to be kept "alive" like that including her... let her go and rest in peace.

[Bklngirl]

Bart,What you said about god allowing the 6 million jews to be systematically slaughtered(1and one half million were children)is a disgustingly anti-sematic thing to say,and was the basis of why the world stood by and allowed it to happen.Shame on you!

[tk0727]

This woman has been dead for years IMO. If someone gets to the point where a common house plant has a more active life, than its time to pull the plug. Prior to her coma, she went several minutes without oxygen to her brain.... there is no chance of recovery, her brain is gone. I can't imagine anyone who would want to be kept "alive" like that including her... let her go and rest in peace.

It's not so much keeping her alive. It's letting her go in a more humane way..

[Yxboom]

When the courts begin issuing death sentences (via starvation or dehydration) against citizens who have never been convicted of a crime, then law abiding citizens who would normally support the courts will begin to turn against the judiciary.

[Bart]

Bart,What you said about god allowing the 6 million jews to be systematically slaughtered(1and one half million were children)is a disgustingly anti-sematic thing to say,and was the basis of why the world stood by and allowed it to happen.Shame on you!

i didnt say i knew that as fact. i said maybe god was ****ed at the jews. in any event, i was being sarcastic.

[wolverine652001]

Okay, I was watching Fox news tonite. Seen some interesting stuff. There is proof back in 2002 that Terri was responding, an audio tape made by her brother. (But is that enuf proof?) Also just revealed that Terri has alot of broken bones, mainly in her pelvis area.


Does anyone hear that too? Doctors are confirming this now. Now the parents are wanting to state an emergency file to the supreme court for these recent proofs. They also want to know why Micheal refused physical therapy to Terri and he took the 5th on that according to his lawyer.




IT all boils down that MICHEAL wants money! He wants her DEAD so he can quit paying the hospice and get more money after shes dead by collecting insurance.

And did anyone watch SouthPark tonite? It was a new one, they combined the Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Terri Shiavo's feeding tube, and PSP.

Kenny died, went to heaven and now the Satan's army is invading Heaven (lord of the ring cue) and the only one who can save Heaven is Kenny (Frodo of lord of the rings) and now he dissappeared and was brought back to life! The doctor succeeded to bringing him back, only a day off of trying, he got Kenny back. Now he is brain damaged! Feeding tube is what is keeping Kenny alive. Now the lawyer were reading the will to the three friends including Cartman. Cartman got the PSP (Portable Playstation) and people rushed in the room and said that Kenny is alive. Cartman is furious!!! He wants Kenny dead so he can get the PSP! Cartman said out of the blue, "Kenny told me that he doesn't want to be alive if he is on life support or feeding tube!" Cartman said, "Fine I'm going to the Supreme Court and have the feeding tube REMOVED!!!" Cartman and his friends argued with each other. Cartman now in front of the federal judges and says, "Kenny told me not to keep him on the Feeding Tube if he is in vegitiative (sp?) condition." the federal judge says. " What guardianship do you have for you to say this?" Cartman: "I'm his BFF." Judge: "BFF?" Cartman: "Best Friends Forever!" *shows the Judge a necklase with a half heart with another half heart missing.* Judge then had a Police Officer and Cartman along with the Judge to prove that Cartman is BFF with Kenny. The doctor and PO walked in with Cartman and the Doc said: " Aight back off, I'm forced to take the feeding tube out!" Parents say:
"WHAT????" The Judge said: "aight let me see the other half of the BFF." the PO said: "Here it is. On a necklace that Kenny is wearing." Judge: "Alright, remove the feeding tube!!!" and walked out. Doc, "sorry folks, I got orders." Then the friends of Kenny said: "That's not RIGHT!!! That's it, we're gonna go get the media INVOLVED!!!"


So the whole concept is that anyone can get away with anything and not get charged for Murder...

another thing, has anyone heard about a strange 911 call from a child that both parents are dead? What in the world is Florida coming to? Everything is happening in Florida day after day!

[Delta784]

Well, the USSC has denied the latest appeal of the Schindlers, which effectively exhausts all legal options. Unless Jeb Bush suddenly grows some King Kong-sized balls and stands up to judicial tyranny, or there is some other deus ex machina incident, Terri Schiavo will be dead by the weekend. Was it really necessary?

Does any cop on this board look at Michael Schivao, and not have all of our scumbag-detecting radar go off at full volume? In a sworn affadavit, one of Terri's former nurses stated that Michael stated numerous times that he didn't know what to do with Terri, because they never talked about it. Seven years after the injury, he suddenly recalls a conversation where she allegedley told him that she wouldn't want to live in that condition. Another nurse's affadavit states that Michael actually tried to kill Terri by injecting her with insulin. Why isn't Michael Schivao being investigated for Attempted Murder and Perjury???

The astounding irony of this incident is the way the the liberal left has howled bloody murder at the intervention of the Federal courts. These are the same people that will file endless appeal after appeal of a serial killer (sometimes against their wishes) under a state sentence of death, in Federal court. In their twisted world, serial killers are worthy of Federal court review, while Terri Schiavo, who never hurt anyone, isn't. It is so hypocritical that I want to scream.

Rest in peace, Terri, you surely deserved better than you got.

[Mraughh]

What kills me is the ACLU supporting her "right to die" when they are all up in arms about disabled peoples rights. Don't know if this is true or not, but I heard from our favorite radio host that the lawyer Filo (sp) is a euthanasia advocate also. Not to mention he was on the board of directors for that hospice.

[Yxboom]

Snip...
In a sworn affadavit, one of Terri's former nurses stated that Michael stated numerous times that he didn't know what to do with Terri, because they never talked about it. Seven years after the injury, he suddenly recalls a conversation where she allegedley told him that she wouldn't want to live in that condition.

Another nurse's affadavit states that Michael actually tried to kill Terri by injecting her with insulin. The above perfectly demonstrates why this case is so bizarre.

Snip...
Does any cop on this board look at Michael Schivao, and not have all of our scumbag-detecting radar go off at full volume? As an investigator, yes, my spidey senses are alerted every time Michael Schivao speaks. He pled the 5th when incriminating questions were asked him about Terri. :rolleyes: That is a common tactic of the guilty. But what goes around eventually comes back around, usually even stronger. A very bitter judgement awaits Michael Schivao -- and he cannot envision what it will be, but it's coming.

[Styx]

I am not even a cop, but my "spidey senses" were firing off long ago. Perhaps it is because of my basic lack of trust of most of mankind. I trust very few people. Dont get me wrong, I am not a witch with a B or anything; I just know people amd human nature.....I am watching my own back , thank you very much...with a little help.

I trust my daddy, mom, my husband, siblings and most of my extended family, including mu husbands family. I have close friends in my life that fit in that category. Meaning, I trust them with my life....and decisions concerning my life.

Am a bitter for not trusting people? Or am I a realist?

[retired]

I am not even a cop, but my "spidey senses" were firing off long ago. Perhaps it is because of my basic lack of trust of most of mankind. I trust very few people. Dont get me wrong, I am not a witch with a B or anything; I just know people amd human nature.....I am watching my own back , thank you very much...with a little help.

I trust my daddy, mom, my husband, siblings and most of my extended family, including mu husbands family. I have close friends in my life that fit in that category. Meaning, I trust them with my life....and decisions concerning my life.

Am a bitter for not trusting people? Or am I a realist?

You can trust me, I'm here to help. :p :D

[Styx]

You can trust me, I'm here to help. :p :D

You know, I probably would end up trusting you....but with a little time. you seem like an overall nice person. Kind of like my brothers are nice and wise.

[Styx]

You can trust me, I'm here to help. :p :D

You know, I probably would end up trusting you....but with a little time. you seem like an overall nice person. Kind of like my brothers are nice and wise.

[gottaloveme]

Whatever your position on this case, she has passed and now has peace.

[LadyLawman]

Terry shaivo has passed on at 9:45 EST she lived just a few towns away and have heard about her suffering for the last 15 years. she is finally in a better place. May god keep her as an angel!

[Styx]

WOW, I didnt know that. May she rest in peace.

Lets all drop this and let it go. It wont end in the media because its not that easy and things are still occuring on a medical and legal level.

We have had a civil and close to heated debate about this. It fabulous that we can have a difference of opinion...but enough is enough.


Use this news event as a learning tool

[wolverine652001]

Since it is a Florida Law that any person who wants a person cremated, has to have a full autopsy (SP?) before doing so. Now Micheal is nervous, They also said that the family was with Terri til the last 10 minutes of her death was spent with Micheal in PRIVATE. What happened in the last 10 minutes before Terri's death? After she died, Micheal found out that it is a law to have a full autopsy before cremating., he got nervous.


We'll find out if he committed attempted murder, murder or not.

[Bklngirl]

Bart,whether you said it as a fact(maybe) or a bit of sarcasm.It was an evil thing to say.My mail woman said that perhaps the Tsunami in Sri Lanka happened because the people there worship cows,and this ****ed god off.I told her that if this is their tradition,and they do it with a pure heat,and they are good people,then it's not the wrong religion for them.She thought a minute,then said "you're right".With all due respect,millions and millions of people were killed in the name of christianity(crusades,witchhunts,Catholic missianaries gave the native Americans who would not accept christianity blankets infected with small pox on purpose,on and on and on)by that twisted way of thinking,should god punish all christians for the behavior of a few?That would not be ant sort of god I would want to worship.I believe god has a way of perfecting us all.For example if someone is a racist,perhaps in their next life they come back as an African American.Careful Bart,maybe in your next life you'll come back as a Jewish person.If you do,welcome abourd!

[retired]

Careful Bart,maybe in your next life you'll come back as a Jewish person.If you do,welcome abourd!

Naw, Bart will come back as Styx. :p :D

[retired]

So why would Michael be nervous about an autopsy?

The Schindlers and Michael Schiavo have reached rare agreement about the need for an autopsy to be performed on Terri Schiavo when she eventually dies. Her parents, who at first opposed having an autopsy, now say they believe she suffered abuse at the hands of her husband and an autopsy could provide evidence of that. Mr. Schiavo denies the abuse charge. His lawyer, George Felos says Michael Schiavo believes an autopsy is necessary to disprove the notion that she could have recovered.

"He has requested this strongly," he said. "He believes it is important to have the public know the full and massive extent of the damage to Mrs. Schiavo's brain through the cardiac arrest in 1990."

[Styx]

Naw, Bart will come back as Styx. :p :D

You make that sound like a bad thing...whats wrong with coming back as me?

[Styx]

So why would Michael be nervous about an autopsy?

The Schindlers and Michael Schiavo have reached rare agreement about the need for an autopsy to be performed on Terri Schiavo when she eventually dies. Her parents, who at first opposed having an autopsy, now say they believe she suffered abuse at the hands of her husband and an autopsy could provide evidence of that. Mr. Schiavo denies the abuse charge. His lawyer, George Felos says Michael Schiavo believes an autopsy is necessary to disprove the notion that she could have recovered.

"He has requested this strongly," he said. "He believes it is important to have the public know the full and massive extent of the damage to Mrs. Schiavo's brain through the cardiac arrest in 1990."

Basically it is to prove that he was right....its all about him. Even though she is dead, now.......its all about him.

Let her rest in peace for Gods sake, why prove anything...almost like a NAH, NAH, NAH,NAH...look, "I was right...let me pour more salt on that wound I have been picking at for 15 years."

May he rot in hell for being so thoughtless and cold to the people who gave his wife the life she so joyously lived before her heart attack.

[gottaloveme]

Well, I thought I was done with this thread but I just have to say a few things. I suspect I will be torched for it. Whatever your side is on this case, let me say what I have heard said on LE issues: We were not THERE. We do not know all the TRUE facts nor I doubt we ever will. The husband could have walked away and turned care over to the parents at any time. He already had kids with another woman so he seemed to be moving on in life. So why did he fight so hard? Was he really trying to honor is wifes verbal wishes or did he think he would finally get a prime time movie out of this?

There are still too many questions as to whether he is friend or foe. I do think that the way she died was not necessary. Starving a person to death does not sound very good. She might have not know what was happening but she might have felt pain. There are many stories of people in comas that actually heard and felt what others thought they would not have. Although this goes against every religious bone in my body, I wish she had just been given an injection and gone to sleep and died in peace and without any pain or suffering.

If anything at all comes from this, put your wishes in writing and give a copy to someone other than your husband and parents. I suspect this story will go on for sometime and I am sure book and movie deals are being made as we speak. It is sad that Terri will actually be forgotten as an individual and instead remembered as a story. :(