National ID Card

[Photogrrlz]

Got this in a email a lil bit ago..Have you all heard about it?

Battle over the National ID Card now moves to the Senate

Thursday, February 17, 2005

"The U.S. House of Representatives passed a national ID bill last week that masqueraded as 'immigration reform.' ... In reality, the bill is a Trojan horse. It pretends to offer desperately needed border control in order to con a credulous Congress into sacrificing more of our constitutionally protected liberty." -- Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)

Rep. Ron Paul got it right. H.R. 418 is not about immigration control as much as it is about citizen control.

Last week, the U.S. House of Representatives voted 261-161 to send H.R. 418, the so-called "REAL ID Act of 2005," over to the Senate. The bill federalizes the issuance of drivers' licenses, an activity which until recently has always been a state function. Because no American will be able to fly, take a train or buy a gun from a dealer without a driver's license that meets the federal standards in the bill, H.R. 418 has effectively created a National ID card.

The bill's future in the Senate is uncertain at this time, although Rep. Paul's office has told Gun Owners of America that House leaders are contemplating whether to attach H.R. 418 as an amendment to the tsunami relief bill.

Lambasting the bill on the floor of the House last week, Rep. Paul noted that the legislation gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to expand the required information that goes into drivers

[6233108]

Rep. Paul is a man of integrity and a true Constitutionalist, he realizes that this goes too far. The have their Patriot Act why is there a need for further intrusiveness. CLOSE THE BORDERS WHILE WE ARE AT WAR!!!! You want to go to Mexico or Canada....fly there, we have better controls over air travel.

[JohnKelly]

There are discussions being held in the Australian Parliament and also the British Parliament in relation to the introduction of a National ID Card.

It was my understanding that the US already had a National ID system, in the form of a Social Security Number?

[txinvestigator1]

The bill would simply set requirements for states to issue official State ID such as Drivers Licenses and ID cards.

It in no way establishes a federal ID.

[retired]

The bill would simply set requirements for states to issue official State ID such as Drivers Licenses and ID cards.

It in no way establishes a federal ID.


Ron Paul and others certainly disagree with you. If your state doesn't subscribe to the federal standards, you can't board a plane without it.

The National ID Trojan Horse

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

The U.S. House of Representatives passed a national ID bill last week that masqueraded as

[retired]

I suspect I have a much stronger oppostion to fedeal intrusion into our lives than most people. I resent this HR 418 bill, and consider it just another step toward federal domination.

Department Of Homeland Security Seeking Power To Suspend All Laws
Date: Monday, February 07 2005 @ 15:58:16 PST
Topic: News

On January 26, 2005, Rep. Sensenbrenner introduced the REAL ID Act of 2005 (H.R. 418). In the name of homeland security, it includes a number of items changing immigration laws, use of drivers' licenses, etc.

But -- most overlooked -- is Section 102 of this bill. It would empower the Secretary of Homeland Security to suspend any and all laws in order to ensure the "expeditious" construction of a set of barriers and roads south of San Diego, to keep illegal immigrants out. It also would prohibit ANY judicial review of the Secretary of Homeland Security's decision to suspend any law. ON EDIT: While the law the bill references mentions barriers and roads "near San Diego," it does not appear to be (technically speaking) limited to that area -- but to any barriers or roads "in the vicinity of the United States border."




SEC. 102. WAIVER OF LAWS NECESSARY FOR IMPROVEMENT OF BARRIERS AT BORDERS.
Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended to read as follows:

`(c) Waiver-

`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.

`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court shall have jurisdiction--

`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or

`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.




Editor: Some of us would read this to be that the Department of Homeland Security is seeking to have the power to suspend any law which they feel may not be in their best interest, to set up nazi-like checkpoints anywhere in America. These checkpoints on the surface would be to curb illegal immigration, but in reality would be more on the order of having a legal reason to stop citizens for any reason when traveling from any point to any point.

Some laws are never used. Some laws, if worded too vaguely, can be used for anything. Vague laws are very dangerous.

In this case, giving DHS power to suspend any law, if you should be traveling from point A to point B, they could now have the right to search you, your vehicle (U.S. Constitution, 4th amendment), waive the need for a trial (U.S. Constitution, 5th amendment) and if they feel that they should hold you indefinately (U.S. Constitution, 6th and 8th amendments). Lets say that they decide that you're a threat for something you've said, something you've written, or a newspaper that you may have (Hmmmm, U.S. Constitution, 1st amendment).

Lets wrap this in a scenerio that they'd like to play off. Say you are of the Muslim faith, 3rd generation American, with few printed stories from Al Jazeera, with a pocket knife and a roll of twine, obviously you were going to do something bad.

Now lets give it another scenerio. You're a farmer from the mid-west, with a roll of twine, a pocket knife, a printed copy of the latest edition of the NRA magazine, and a hunting rifle, legally stored in the trunk of your car.

Where I grew up, the later scenerio could have been 50% of the vehicles on the road.

In either scenerio, these are Americans, who have committed no crimes. You would get no trial, because the courts have no jurisdiction over you. It is up to their whim to what happens to you. You may get jail time at an un-named facility, without the right to appeal. They may decide to up the ante a bit.

It wouldn't be hard to add charges to this. 20 gallons of explosive materials. 10+ pounds of corrosive acids. 5+ gallons of poisonous liquids. If you have a car, you're carrying these around every day. Gasoline, your car battery, and antifreeze.

Myself, this scares me. I may have a roll of twine in my car. I may have a pocket knife, and I may have many printed materials from this web site. Am I a danger or a terrorist? No. I'm a regular hard-working American citizen. Could I end up in jail or worse if a DHS checkpoint guard is having a bad day? Yes.

How broadly they interpret a U.S. Border is even worse. There is currently a U.S. Customs/Immigration checkpoint North of San Diego. If you're white, you may pass. If you're hispanic, you will be stopped. Every time I've gone through that checkpoint, I've seen hispanic people being loaded up in Immigration vans, assumingly to be deported.

[retired]

Another perspective on HR418.


The Beast is Back

"Real I.D." for an all too real world

Brian Doherty


Even in a relationship that has clearly gone somewhere beyond abusive, it can hurt to be reminded how little our "partners" in D.C.

[BrickCop]

Rep. Paul is a man of integrity and a true Constitutionalist, he realizes that this goes too far. The have their Patriot Act why is there a need for further intrusiveness. CLOSE THE BORDERS WHILE WE ARE AT WAR!!!! You want to go to Mexico or Canada....fly there, we have better controls over air travel.

I agree 100%.

For years Drug Smugglers, Welfare Leeches and wannabe Terrorists have enjoyed miles and miles of unguarded border to stride across. I'd rather stop them there than try the needle in the haystack approach. What good is a National ID card once they've already sneaked into the country.

I don't fear the "Big Brother" concerns that some have about a National ID card. Does anyone actually think that the US government cannot already track you down or spy on you if they really wanted to? They don't need your National ID card for that.

For me the ID card is now wasting the time, money and resources that could be better spent for increased border security.

Why are we not doing this? Why does Bush give a **** what Vincente Fox thinks of US?

[Photogrrlz]

and I thought this post was dead.....

But I will add more....

It was a lil while back, but did you all hear about I beleive in NY that woman that wear religious vales (sp?) don't have to take it off for their ID to be taken... What the heck is up with that.... Can validate a persons photo with it... :mad:

[Mraughh]

Heh, it's pretty scary how easily you can be found and classified by the Gov't if you are a law-abiding citizen nowadays.

*WARNING OFFENSIVE OPINION* Harsh times call for harsh measures. If you are caught trying to cross the border you should be shot on sight. No more of this namby-pamby crap thats been going on for the past 40+ years. Of course the hispanic lobbyists are vhemently fighting any border legislation. Lol, no I am not a racist either, I learned to hate individuals rather than entire races.

[Slippery Pete]

I think it's a good idea to standardize state IDs. And since the pictures aren't really that clear, I wouldn't even mind having a thumbprint being attached to the ID. But that's as far as it needs to go. An ID should be just that-- a document that positively identifies who the person is, and nothing more. I hadn't heard about this bill, but it sounds like it goes way beyond simply standardizing state IDs. Thanks Photogrrlz, for bringing it to my attention.

[Batman21]

I think it's a good idea to standardize state IDs. And since the pictures aren't really that clear, I wouldn't even mind having a thumbprint being attached to the ID. But that's as far as it needs to go. An ID should be just that-- a document that positively identifies who the person is, and nothing more. I hadn't heard about this bill, but it sounds like it goes way beyond simply standardizing state IDs. Thanks Photogrrlz, for bringing it to my attention.

To some what piggy back off of the above. I think standardization is good and if it makes my life eaiser then I am ok with it.

There are a lot of people that say that this is big brother and all that, but why, How?

As far as helping the imigrant problem I think the idea was that if someone didnt have one or couldnt get one then should not be able to be in this country.

[retired]

[QUOTE=Batman21]I think standardization is good and if it makes my life eaiser then I am ok with it.

QUOTE]

Why is it good for the American public? Why should Alabama have to have the same DL as New Mexico?

[frank]

I am for having a card that every person in the USA and those comming into the USA could carry with thier finger print and somehow DNA information and blood sample letter ..so if your hurt... The Police can dispatch this to the local hospital if the accident person would say need blood ect...It could be hidden in a driver licence number, so it could picked up by Police for emergencies ect and say even when going after Suspects..why?..Every body has to carry a drivers licence and we know there is information on it through the numbers...I think everything including whats spoken above should be a part of the licence and should be updated on all as they are reapplied for.This should be a law!I think this could help in the fight on terrorism.
Anyone caught without this card at any time, would get fined big time! I do not personally think it would be a break in our confidentiality issues..I believe it would be worth the time for our security!Especailly since people are doing all these make overs you see on T.V. It is scarey nowing people can change thier looks these days..Say if Bin laden moved next to you, but he changed his looks! The card would have information that he or anybody would not be able to change..Get the idea!I know there is a couple of loop holes with this idea..But it's worth the time..People are getting smarter with crimes ect...You know the what I am talking of!
In a doe case:" Missing person or found person dead"..They could trace this card information to find out who it is..I hope you understand what I am trying to say!

[retired]

I am for having a card that every person in the USA and those comming into the USA could carry with thier finger print and somehow DNA information and blood sample letter ..so if your hurt... The Police can dispatch this to the local hospital if the accident person would say need blood ect...It could be hidden in a driver licence number, so it could picked up by Police for emergencies ect and say even when going after Suspects..why?..Every body has to carry a drivers licence and we know there is information on it through the numbers...I think everything including whats spoken above should be a part of the licence and should be updated on all as they are reapplied for.This should be a law!I think this could help in the fight on terrorism.
Anyone caught without this card at any time, would get fined big time! I do not personally think it would be a break in our confidentiality issues..I believe it would be worth the time for our security!Especailly since people are doing all these make overs you see on T.V. It is scarey nowing people can change thier looks these days..Say if Bin laden moved next to you, but he changed his looks! The card would have information that he or anybody would not be able to change..Get the idea!I know there is a couple of loop holes with this idea..But it's worth the time..People are getting smarter with crimes ect...You know the what I am talking of!
In a doe case:" Missing person or found person dead"..They could trace this card information to find out who it is..I hope you understand what I am trying to say!


Right Frank, and we could set up roadblocks and checkpoints everywhere in the US. And when we are told to produce our papers, we better be ready or as you say, we get fined big time, or better yet, why not shipped to a concentration camp? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Mraughh]

Right Frank, and we could set up roadblocks and checkpoints everywhere in the US. And when we are told to produce our papers, we better be ready or as you say, we get fined big time, or better yet, why not shipped to a concentration camp? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

We are in agreement.

[gottaloveme]

Personally I do not really see an issue with a national ID. Your personal information is already well known to whoever wants to know it anyways. Of course my take is if you don't have anything to hide, whats the big deal? I know some think it is just another invasion of privacy but we have not really had true privacy in decades. :cool: Flame away. :rolleyes:

[retired]

Personally I do not really see an issue with a national ID. Your personal information is already well known to whoever wants to know it anyways. Of course my take is if you don't have anything to hide, whats the big deal? I know some think it is just another invasion of privacy but we have not really had true privacy in decades. :cool: Flame away. :rolleyes:

The issue is that it is the government invading your privacy and maintaining a database on you. If you want a DL you are forced to furnish the info. The government already abuses their power and authority enough. Why can't the states decide whatinfo they want for a DL?

I don't buy the "if you have nothing to hide, what's the big deal"? The Jews in Nazi Germany originally had nothing to hide.

[gottaloveme]

I am not sure how the execution of innocent jews by a mad man has anything to do with a national ID. :rolleyes:

Perhaps I do not understand what the national ID is all about. The gov't already has all your personal information information so what is it that you think they will be getting in addition? I understand the privacy issue but our country has to move past that. My understanding is that if we want certain levels of security and protection we may have to give up some things and part of our privacy includes that. If given a choice of disclosing certain information about me or risking being blown up, I would give the information.

That may seem extreme to you but I really don't know how else this country can increase security. If there is a better idea, I am for it.

[Watchman]

My understanding is that if we want certain levels of security and protection we may have to give up some things and part of our privacy includes that. If given a choice of disclosing certain information about me or risking being blown up, I would give the information.



Bulls*it.

Your apparent lack of understanding just about guarantees that we will lose some more of our personal rights in the never ending quest for "peace and safety".

Everyday we are giving up bits and pieces of freedom, not so much that you notice, because if you did you might get upset and raise hell about it, but its done in a way that one day we'll all wake up and we'll wonder where it all went.
There will ALWAYS be a "crisis" of some sort. Whether it is a real one or it is fabricated matters not. With attitudes like yours, it will only serve to expedite the constant erosion of our freedoms.



To pharaprhase Ben Franklin who said it said it best...

'Those that would give up essential freedom for safety deserve neither...



Frankly, the lack of understanding by some on this particular post about the intrusion of the federal government into our personal lives has me somewhat concerned. If the general public is half as clueless as some of the posters here, it's just a matter of time till the phrase" your papers please" will be as common here as was in Nazi Germany.

[Ken K]

Hopefully you all saw the information on ChoicePoint selling information from its database to companies that turned out to be bogus. ChoicePoint collects millions of records on all of us for insurance and credit purposes, and they just got violated. Good old identity theft here we go.

A recent posting on the Assoc. of Certified Fraud Examiners site claims an IRS security check resulted in 35 IRS auditors/agents providing their passwords to a caller posing as an IRS IT specialist. This is absolutely against IRS policy per this post and was given even when the auditor/agent could not verify the caller's ID as being an IRS employee.

So if this ID bill will establish yet another database of my information, I'd prefer not to have it. I'd rather not get calls from Mexico that I am behind on the payments for my ocean front home, which I know nothing about.

I have an idea, let's just tattoo our soc numbers on our wrists. Avoids having a card you might leave at home and they can just scan us wherever we go. And, what's all of this have to do with Germany? Well...

[Ken K]

Here's the article on the IRS. Sorry, another long one.

Auditors Find IRS Workers Prone to HackersBy MARY DALRYMPLEAP Tax WriterWASHINGTON (AP) -- More than one-third of Internal Revenue Service employees and managers who were contacted by Treasury Department inspectors posing as computer technicians provided their computer login and changed their password, a government report said Wednesday.

The report by the Treasury Department's inspector general for tax administration reveals a human flaw in the security system that protects taxpayer data.It also comes on the heels of accounts of thieves' breaking into computer systems of private data suppliers ChoicePoint Inc. and LexisNexis.

The auditors called 100 IRS employees and managers, portraying themselves as personnel from the information technology help desk trying to correct a network problem. They asked the employees to provide their network logon name and temporarily change their password to one they suggested."We were able to convince 35 managers and employees to provide us their username and change their password," the report said.

That was a 50 percent improvement when compared with a similar test in 2001, when 71 employees cooperated and changed their passwords.

"With an employee's user account name and password, a hacker could gain access to that employee's access privileges," the report said."Even more significant, a disgruntled employee could use the same social engineering tactics and obtain another employee's username and password," auditors said.With some knowledge of IRS systems, such an employee could more easily get access to taxpayer data or damage the agency's computer systems.

Employees gave several reasons for complying with the request, in violation with IRS rules that prohibit employees from divulging their passwords.Some said they were not aware of the hacking technique and did not suspect foul play, or they wanted to be as helpful as possible to the computer technicians.

Some were having network problems at the time, so the call seemed logical.Other employees could not find the caller's name on a global IRS employee directory but gave their information anyway. Some hesitated but got approval from their managers to cooperate.

Within two days after the test, the IRS issued an e-mail alert about the hacking technique and instructed employees to notify security officials if they get such calls.

The agency also included warnings into its mandatory security training.

[gottaloveme]

Well you have your views but they sound a little paranoid to me. I am in an industry where I can frankly access things about you that would not make you happy. Everytime you get a credit card, auto loan, mortgage etc, you SIGN away your right to privacy. If you want money and toys, then you give up your information. If you don't want to give that up, then save your money and buy things with cash. You cannot expect lending industries to just hand you money without knowing about you and how to get that money back when you decide not to pay.

It may not be nice, but it is fact. People are quick to complain about big brother and the corporate nazi's, however, those same people put out their hand for money. You can't have your cake and eat it too, sorry.

[Ken K]

Well, if that last post is directed at me, you have no idea where I spent my career, but I'll tell you this, database access was my friend. I spent a lot of time chasing fake ID's and frauds of all types. My enitire life was not in LE.

I don't like anyone having too much, but I certainly understand I need to have some info out there to get credit.

My dealing with a credit bureau on my info is one thing. Having the gov't get into it more than they already are, and possibly sharing with other gov'ts, if that is what this bill does, scares the heck out of me.

Now I'm a nice, honest guy, so give me access to everything. I promise I won't abuse it. I mean, I chase bad guys and that alone justifys it.

[gottaloveme]

Ken, that post was not directed at anyone specific. My point was that to obtain some things you may have to give other things up. Nothing is for free anymore. I have been in my profession for over twenty years and seen quite a bit. If I am stopped by an officer or arrested I suspect you could probably view about anything you want on me, even things I may not know are public on me. That seems to be ok to all but once the gov't steps in then it sounds like you are saying hands off.

Don't be offended, I just really don't think the ID thing is that big of a deal.

[retired]

My understanding is that if we want certain levels of security and protection we may have to give up some things and part of our privacy includes that. If given a choice of disclosing certain information about me or risking being blown up, I would give the information.

That may seem extreme to you but I really don't know how else this country can increase security. If there is a better idea, I am for it.


So you are willing to surrender your Bill of Rights so you can have the perception of safety and security? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Hard to believe that any American would surrender those rights.

MOst of us would prefer not to be blown up. But do you really think we are at a high risk of being blown up, or do you think that maybe the government is keeping the people in a constant state of fear and paranoia?

I'm sure that a national ID card will stop terror in its tracks. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I can see it now, Al Queda stops plans for terror attacks in US, US has a national ID card. :eek:

[retired]

My understanding is that if we want certain levels of security and protection we may have to give up some things and part of our privacy includes that. If given a choice of disclosing certain information about me or risking being blown up, I would give the information.



Bulls*it.

Your apparent lack of understanding just about guarantees that we will lose some more of our personal rights in the never ending quest for "peace and safety".

Everyday we are giving up bits and pieces of freedom, not so much that you notice, because if you did you might get upset and raise hell about it, but its done in a way that one day we'll all wake up and we'll wonder where it all went.
There will ALWAYS be a "crisis" of some sort. Whether it is a real one or it is fabricated matters not. With attitudes like yours, it will only serve to expedite the constant erosion of our freedoms.



To pharaprhase Ben Franklin who said it said it best...

'Those that would give up essential freedom for safety deserve neither...



Frankly, the lack of understanding by some on this particular post about the intrusion of the federal government into our personal lives has me somewhat concerned. If the general public is half as clueless as some of the posters here, it's just a matter of time till the phrase" your papers please" will be as common here as was in Nazi Germany.

Well said Watchman! :) :)

[gottaloveme]

So you are willing to surrender your Bill of Rights so you can have the perception of safety and security? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Hard to believe that any American would surrender those rights.

MOst of us would prefer not to be blown up. But do you really think we are at a high risk of being blown up, or do you think that maybe the government is keeping the people in a constant state of fear and paranoia?

I'm sure that a national ID card will stop terror in its tracks. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I can see it now, Al Queda stops plans for terror attacks in US, US has a national ID card. :eek:

Obviously I must be missing something. What rights am I really giving up? So gov't will have a database that has about the same stuff in it that LE data bases have. Between law, legal, credit, license, IRS and medical, I pretty much think the gov't has about all they want. Again, I think I am just repeating myself so I will end this here. I just don't understand what the big deal is and how I am "giving up my American rights". This big brother conspiracy stuff is just way too easy. :rolleyes:

[retired]

Obviously I must be missing something. What rights am I really giving up? So gov't will have a database that has about the same stuff in it that LE data bases have. Between law, legal, credit, license, IRS and medical, I pretty much think the gov't has about all they want. Again, I think I am just repeating myself so I will end this here. I just don't understand what the big deal is and how I am "giving up my American rights". This big brother conspiracy stuff is just way too easy. :rolleyes:

Of course the govenemnt will not abuse any new authority they get. :rolleyes: Where do you live, in a shell? :confused:

Here are some excerpts about the hazards of a national ID card.


Under the measure, states must verify they are giving licenses to U.S. citizens and legal residents. If they fail to do so, federal officers cannot accept licenses from residents of those states as proof of identity to get on an airplane or into a federal building. :eek:

Lilienthal, whose think tank says it is politically and culturally conservative, asked what is there to stop the government from eventually requiring information about people's health, criminal backgrounds or gun ownership. :mad:

Larry Pratt, executive director of Springfield, Va.-based Gun Owners of America, says the bill "hands an open-ended blank check" to the government to collect information about people.

States can opt out of the requirements, but the bill would withhold money from states for driver's license improvements if they do (federal extortion) :mad:

A national identification card, in whatever form it may take, will allow the federal government to inappropriately monitor the movements and transactions of every American. History shows that governments inevitably use the power to monitor the actions of people in harmful ways. Claims that the government will protect the privacy of Americans when implementing a national identification card ring hollow. We would do well to remember what happened with the Social Security number. It was introduced with solemn restrictions on how it could be used, but it has become a de facto national identifier.

This legislation gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to expand required information on driver

[1911]

Well you have your views but they sound a little paranoid to me. I am in an industry where I can frankly access things about you that would not make you happy. Everytime you get a credit card, auto loan, mortgage etc, you SIGN away your right to privacy. If you want money and toys, then you give up your information. If you don't want to give that up, then save your money and buy things with cash. You cannot expect lending industries to just hand you money without knowing about you and how to get that money back when you decide not to pay.

It may not be nice, but it is fact. People are quick to complain about big brother and the corporate nazi's, however, those same people put out their hand for money. You can't have your cake and eat it too, sorry.

So then let's let the government do whatever it wants. Is that what you are saying? Sounds like it.

[Ken K]

gottaloveme, I did take a little offense since you used the word paranoid. I don't think I am. I prefer less gov't whenever possible.

In reading all this it is difficult to really tell the future ramifications. I am mostly conecerned about sharing the info with other gov'ts that I have no say in what they do. If that is in fact a provision!?

Is it just a mater of time before you need that ID card to get medical treatment, buy food, gas, and other necessities? Then the very fact we need that card bothers me.

Good thread. Sorry if you thought I was all that offended. But remember the old cliche', your not paranoid if someone is out to get you. At least that is what the voices keep telling me!

[frank]

I know what you mean, that giving up privacy is bad,but on the other hand if one of my familly members was kid napped and was never found then down the line years later, they find some remains and because they had this information in a card maybe they could find out instantly it is your lost familly member.That would also be sad,but it would be closier for a family that finely found that person..Anyway, something like that! Maybe we won't see this happen now...a card with such information...but I give a 1000 years or so I will bet it will happen.With all the stuff happeneing around us technology moves and we have no choice but to go with it!Look doctors are putting our information on the net....Put a number in and you get your health records shown to everyone...That sucks!..and worst off the hackers who know you, will use that to their advantage also!I might be paranoid....... SO!!It's a no brianer that the stuff you are paranoid about,Quote:It happens to people all the time..
So to that I say....better to have that extra protection, at least it will be a life line,if something should happen to you!Maybe they will come up with an idea that everyone will like and trust too!

[Watchman]

What amazes me is the fact that for the last several thousand years mankind had survived without a universal ID card.

If anyone here would like to give up more to the government, thats fine with me.

I personally would rather not lose some freedom for the idea, because once its gone, its gone forever.

You want it to make yourself feel better about life and you think that the little government issued card will "protect" you...go for it.

Just dont "require" me to do it.

[1sgkelly]

Lets see; got my Fed creds, my retired military ID, my CCW card, my armed guard lic., my state cert for weapons trainer, my Taser instructor ID, my library card, my drivers license, three credit cards, ASP certs, NRA membership card, mortgage, checking acct., two video rental cards, two car registrations and an old security clearance. :eek:

And I'm married. :D

I think if anybody wants to check up on me they wouldn

[frank]

The next serviver show will be....who will be able to let there information go all over T.V and who will leave first from ambarrassment or shame? Well, I won't have to worry about either one.. I'm all of the above......Sorry! had no arrests though! Thank God!and they already know I'm odd and nuts!So the information that goes out there aint going to give them the thrill there looking for!
As the song goes!"I am the black sheep of the Familly!"

[Pendragon]

I don't have so much a problem with a national *drivers license*, are traffic laws really THAT different from one state to the next, does the asphalt change, do the drivers get more stupid, or smarter, are the cars different?
Why can I drive in all 50 states as visitor with my state license, but as soon as I live there, I have to get a license in that state?
I know, it's probably revenue generation...

I do however, have a problem with a national ID card, especially as it's outlined in the bill. But I also have a problem with some of the current laws.

If I am walking down the street, minding my own business, IMO, no one has the right to force me to identify myself, or detain me until I do (since you didn't have the right to ask for it in the first place). This is pretty much the same as asking me for my 'papers'.

and FWIW, no, I've never just been asked for ID for no apparent reason, doesn't mean I think it's ok to do.

[lightfighter21]

Every time I think of a national I.D card, I think of those WWII movies when the Gestopo agent states "PAPERS PLEASE"

[KBeecher]

I am going to suppose that everyone on this board is licensed by their state to drive a Motor Vehicle. I am also going to suppose that in order to get that license everyone had to identify themselves with at least one piece of ID, possibly another state ID or Driver's license or even a birth certificate or SSN card.

Now, how many have stopped people from out of their own state and looked at the driver's license they were handed and thouhgt one of the following:
1: What a piece of crap this state license is, made of paper and has no picture and could be anyone since it has no physical description.

2: I don't need to ask this guy/gal anything about themselves, its all on the DL and even has a picture of the person that handed it to me. Great plastic coating with holograms in it to prevent fraud. Here's you license and ticket, have a great day.

I have seen state licenses that are like #1 and #2. I much prefer #2 because if my license ever gets stolen and they try to use it, they will be caught well before the person with #1 license does. And talk about ruin your credit history.

The bills I have seen are for one thing, to make the states use a license that is hard to duplicate, has the information necessary on it to show an officer who you are, including those ugly pictures. The news awhile back was all about the muslim woman who claimed her picture with a veil off for a driver's license would be a violation of her privacy and religion. Okay then you don't have a license to drive since its not a right but a privelege. She took state to court and a lower court said she did not have to have a picture without veil on her face.

Now, when you get to court explain to the judge that the person you gave the ticket to is the same one sitting there. No, its not, its some other person in a dress and veil who you cannot identify.

I believe this call for what everyone says is a National ID card is nothing but the feds telling the states, look you got to get your stuff together so that everyone is equal. The traffic laws are mostly the same throughout the states, why shouldn't what a driver license contains and shows be essentially the same as far as information and quality?

[1sgkelly]

Every time I think of a national I.D card, I think of those WWII movies when the Gestopo agent states "PAPERS PLEASE"

Kind of like a trooper asking for license, registration and insurance.
:rolleyes: