For the UK cops

[co911]

South Australia POLICE NOW RECRUITING

requriements: expect:
1.minimum 3 yrs UK pol experience 1.support from SAPOL
for immigration on arrival
2.willing to serve anywhere in SA 2. 6 weeks leave
3.EXCELLENT salary

[Cockney Corner.]

Yeah, I've seen that. The ad went in the UK trade paper "Police Review", which was delivered to me and everyone else Friday 10 December. Applications have to be in to the Embassy Wednesday 15 December. Strange.

Makes me wish I was unattached and in my early twenties, like most of the people I work with. But I'm in my early 30's with one sprog and another on the way, so I guess I'm stuck in Britain for the duration.

[jandarees]

I saw this advertised, it gave us 2 days to complete form and get it to Australia House, we had no chance.
However looks like Canadian Forces also want UK officers migrating over there, this was also on the Police Review site:confused:

[Sgt. Friday]

Six weeks leave, right off the bat in your first year!!! OUTSTANDING....

Could you provide a currency exchange in salary to US Dollars? Thanks Many.

Good Holidays to our brothers/sisters in law enforcement overseas.:)

[jandarees]

Sgt Friday.

Currency exchange as follows.

Aus $32000

UK

[Sgt Lobster]

6 weeks annual leave to start certainly sounds pretty good. You need to have over 20 years service in the UK to get that amount of annual leave :(

If I was 20 years younger I'd probably give it at go, but as things stand I can retire on a full pension in 8 years. I understand that police pension provisions in Australia are non-existent and you have to rely on State provisions?


Lobster.

[JohnKelly]

British police clamour for SA jobs
December 29, 2004

BRITISH police officers have responded in droves to a South Australian recruitment drive, despite the prospect of a 30 per cent pay cut.

The clamour to leave is a damning indictment on morale in the force, says Britain's Opposition Tory party.

It published figures last night indicating 400 officers had applied to SA Police, which is seeking to recruit just 60 candidates to put through a training course in Adelaide.

A constable with four years' experience could expect to earn about $43,700 in Australia, compared to about $63,520 in England and Wales. A sergeant with four years' service would earn about $61,680 in South Australia compared to about $86,725 in Britain, the report says.

Opposition spokesman David Davis said the number of officers resigning from the police force had more than doubled since Tony Blair came to power in 1997. A shortlist of candidates will be selected for assessment in Britain before 60 are chosen and flown to Adelaide for a 12-week training course in March next year.
Source: news.com.au

South Australia Police (http://www.sapolice.sa.gov.au)

[JohnKelly]

Originally posted by Sgt Lobster
.... I understand that police pension provisions in Australia are non-existent and you have to rely on State provisions?

Lobster.

Lobster, the above information that you were given was incorrect and although I cannot speak for all Australian Police Forces, I can certainly lay claim to the fact that the Force which I am a member would have one of the best Superannuation Schemes in Australia. :)

Cheers.

[Sgt Lobster]

John,

I was told my an officer in the New South Wales Police that they have had no police pension provisons since 1988?


Lobster.

[gazza]

VIC POL,MFB,AMBOS=ESSS...Best scheme going, Corrections ended up with bugger all as per the norm....ahhhhhhh well we are the forgotten ones:D

[Bobbycop]

That doesn't seem much of a wage for a Copper really.
Can new recruits survive alright on that amount out in South Australia ?
Is the cost of living really that good or are people scrimping to make a living?
I've had a look at the price of houses on the web and although Adelaide looks like a beautiful city, the house prices and salary don't add up.
Not that they do in the UK either.
I have been led to believe that other essentials are cheaper out in Oz, such as food, vehicles and petrol.
Would a British bobby be foolish to throw away their service and wage in order to experience the laid back atmosphere and nice weather?:confused:

[mpjsg7767]

Originally posted by Bobbycop
That doesn't seem much of a wage for a Copper really.
Can new recruits survive alright on that amount out in South Australia ?
Would a British bobby be foolish to throw away their service and wage in order to experience the laid back atmosphere and nice weather?:confused:
I can't speak for SA but here in Western Australia, a few blokes from the UK and Irish Police have joined and done alright for themselves. One of the guys I had as a trainee was ex-job in the UK. He's been in about 12 years and has just been made up to Inspector. Normally it takes longer than that to reach that rank, but our department has introduced rank jumping where if you meet the criteria you can bypass the next rank and get promoted to the one after.
But we have the same leave as SA, 6 weeks every year as well as 13 weeks long service leave every 7 years, unlimited sick leave and full coverage for medical expenses. The base rate probably seems a bit low but you have to really factor in shift penalties and overtime which can be a tidy sum. I know I certainly don't scrimp and save on my wage.

[Bobbycop]

How does the rank system work in Australia?
Is promotion based on paper exams, role plays and interview like in the UK?
What is a 'senior constable' or 'brevet sergeant'?
I'd be interested to know.

[mpjsg7767]

Originally posted by Bobbycop
How does the rank system work in Australia?
Is promotion based on paper exams, role plays and interview like in the UK?
What is a 'senior constable' or 'brevet sergeant'?
I'd be interested to know.
Each state has slight differences. In WA, rank goes in the following order: Probationary Constable (first 2 years); Constable; First Class Constable; Senior Constable; Sergeant; Senior Sergeant; Inspector; Superintendant; Commander; Assistant Commissioner; Deputy Commissioner and finally Commissioner.

To be promoted to 1/c Const or Senior Constable, you have to complete a number of paper exams at your work place, they are not that hard. For Sergeant and above, you have to submit and application addressing the critera to get an interview. If you pass the interview, you either get a spot first up or go into a pool. You have one year to pick up a Sergeant position or you have to re-apply.

Senior Constable has been described as being the king of the sh*ts and sh*t of the kings, you do the roles of worker and supervisor, more of a supervisor nowadays. We don't have any brevet ranks anymore, they were phased out a few years ago. If a position of Sergeant or above is vacant, someone can fill the role in an "acting" capacity.

[Bobbycop]

Thanks for that.
I think it makes more sense the Australian way than in the UK.

[mpjsg7767]

Originally posted by Bobbycop
Thanks for that.
I think it makes more sense the Australian way than in the UK.
I've heard you have fast tracking there as well, but what is the UK way??? since we are based on you guys. What is your rank structure compared to us?

[Sgt Lobster]

UK Provincial forces have the following rank structure:
Constable, Sergeant, Inspector, Chief Inspector, Superintendent,
Chief Superintendent, Assistant Chief Constable, Deputy Chief Constable & Chief Constable.

In the 2 London Forces the rank structure is different above Chief Superintendent:

City of London Police has a Commander, Assistant Commissioner & Commissioner.

Metropolitan Police has: Commander; Deputy Assistant Commissioner;
Assistant Commissioner; Deputy Commissioner & Commissioner.

At the moment we have no direct entry above constable level but we do have the High Potential Development Scheme/HPDS. This scheme ensures rapid rise through the ranks for those that make the grade.

Inspectors and above do not hold commissions.

I understand though the Metropolitan Commissioner and the Deputy Commissioner, hold office under a Royal Warrant and are not actually constables.


Lobster.:D

[mpjsg7767]

Basically the same as us, as it should be since we are based on the same system. The only difference is we got rid of the Chief Inspector and Chief Superintendant ranks a few years back when they streamlined the heirachy. Inspectors made up under the old system hold commissions, but those made up now are on contracts.

[Sgt Lobster]

Constables are on probation for the first 2 years but are not classed as a separate rank as such. We don't have senior constables or senior sergeants either. The Metropolitan Police up to I think 1972, did have a station sergeant/1st class detective sergeant rank between sergeant and inspector. The Metropolitan is a huge force currently over 30,000 bobbies and needs an organisational structure to match. As a comparison the largest force outside the Metropolitan - Greater Manchester Police has around 8,000 officers. My force which is a large county constabulary has around 3,5000 officers, so we are about a tenth the size of the Metropolitan but we don't police the biggest city in Europe.


Lobster.

[mpjsg7767]

Originally posted by Sgt Lobster
[B]Constables are on probation for the first 2 years but are not classed as a separate rank as such. My force which is a large county constabulary has around 3,5000 officers, so we are about a tenth the size of the Metropolitan but we don't police the biggest city in Europe.
Our Constables are on the same two year probation as well with an assessment book for us to fill in.
I like your numbers though, for the entire state we have about 5000 officers, up from the 3,500 when I first joined. Our biggest problem is distance as we cover 2.5 million square kilometres. Once you get out in the bush, the less support and backup there is. It can get a bit dicey sometimes.

[Bobbycop]

How do you Police such a big area?
I work on a division that you can drive across within twenty minutes.
Even then if I get a job that requires a fifteen minute drive, when i'm due off duty, I'm not best pleased.
It is the case that you are planning to go home and the next thing you know there's an incident 100 miles away that you need to get to?
There are some remote places out your way.

[Sgt Lobster]

MP,

I've just had a look at our force website and apparently we police over 2,000 square mile, with 124 miles of coastline and 256 miles of motorway. Projected establishments from 31/03/05 are 3,681 police officers, 1,771 police staff including 110 Police Community Support Officers serving a static population of around 1.5 million. I reckon it would take a good 30 - 35 minutes to drive from one end of our Division to the other sticking to the speed limits. I work in a very urban section which means pretty good response times, but things are not so good in our more rural areas.

http://www.lancashire.police.uk/


Lobster

[mpjsg7767]

Originally posted by Bobbycop
How do you Police such a big area?
I work on a division that you can drive across within twenty minutes.
Even then if I get a job that requires a fifteen minute drive, when i'm due off duty, I'm not best pleased.
It is the case that you are planning to go home and the next thing you know there's an incident 100 miles away that you need to get to?
There are some remote places out your way.
I was at a country station only a couple of hundred kms from the city. We had about 20 blokes covering general duties, traffic, CIB & community policing. Although you're based in one town, you had a number of other towns that you would look after as well. Sometimes you'd get jobs in towns 50-60 kms away and the time factor can work in your favour, i.e brawl in the pub, by the time you get there driving at priority the place is shut up and they've all gone home. But you listen to the radio to see if the blokes in the other towns need backup, but you are still 20-30 mins away. Up north and out in the desert distances are even greater, a few places do week long desert patrols to the remote communities.

In the city you don't have the same distances, the district I'm in has 8 stations covering 634 square km's of metropolitan area, coastline, a bit of country and Rottnest Island.

[NSWCop]

G'Day...

I'm back...

Sgt LOBSTER:
What you heard is correct in-so-far as the superannuation of post 1988 NSWPol. officers is concerned. We have no Police specific superanuation nor do we have a police specific Worker's Compensation scheme. In both we are covered by the regular (read lousy) public service schemes.

And, while we are talking about size :cool:

I recall, during my single-unit station days, I covered (as the single copper), an area of 1,400 square kilometres. Talk about a long time for back-up to arrive!!:eek:

[mpjsg7767]

Originally posted by Sgt Lobster
I've just had a look at our force website and apparently we police over 2,000 square mile, with 124 miles of coastline and 256 miles of motorway. Projected establishments from 31/03/05 are 3,681 police officers, 1,771 police staff including 110 Police Community Support Officers serving a static population of around 1.5 million. I reckon it would take a good 30 - 35 minutes to drive from one end of our Division to the other sticking to the speed limits. I work in a very urban section which means pretty good response times, but things are not so good in our more rural areas.Lobster
Our district would take an hour and a half or so to drive from one end to another sticking to the road rules. But as with most of the metro region, you at least have back up out there somewhere, response times for the most serious matters are very good and then tail off for the less serious matters. I guess it's a common thread in most states and territories in Australia, once you get out in the bush, the distance is the most telling thing. We still have our share of 1 man stations although they are trying to shut them down or increase the staff to at least 2 or 3 man stations. I had the opporunity to relieve as the OIC at one of the 1 man stations and it's a different style of policing, but immensely enjoyable.

Had a quick look at your website, quite impressed. Ours is really maintained well enough, but it would only have come into being in the last few years.

[Sgt Lobster]

MP,

I've taken a look at your force website looks slightly sunnier than in good old Blightie :D

[mpjsg7767]

Originally posted by Sgt Lobster
I've taken a look at your force website looks slightly sunnier than in good old Blightie :D
Sgt Lobster,
That's one of the things we really shouldn't complain about, the summer months are sensational if you like sunshine, short skirts, bikinis, beaches, women, and most importantly cold beer in a pub with a view of the pasing parade. And then you have your off duty time as well!!!;)

[Sgt Lobster]

I work on the coast but I don't think the Irish Sea has got much comparison to Oz!!

[JohnKelly]

Originally posted by Sgt Lobster
I work on the coast but I don't think the Irish Sea has got much comparison to Oz!!

Hey Lobster, they don't have Kippers in Oz; unless you buy them in a can. :)

[mpjsg7767]

Originally posted by JohnKelly
Hey Lobster, they don't have Kippers in Oz; unless you buy them in a can. :)
John,
Kippers are alright :eek: but I'll stick to the crayfish, prawns and crabs.

[Sgt Lobster]

John Kelly,

Canned kippers now there's a thought:)

Lobster.

[Sleuth]

Sgt. Lobster, I have a question. You posted that "Inspectors and above do not hold commissions". What does that mean? Are they not sworn officers with arrest powers?
In my agency, everyone who was a Special Agent had a Commission Book, his/her credentials that included arrest powers.

[Sgt Lobster]

Sleuth,

Yes inspectors and above in the UK are constables and hold full police powers, except the deputy commissioner & commissioner of the Met who hold office under Royal Warrant.

Inspectors and above in many former British Colonial police forces held commissions like an officer in the armed services.


Lobster.

[Sleuth]

Thanks for clearing that up. We went by "Rank Equivelency" - my pay grade with Customs was the same as a Lt. Col in our Army. Means exactly ... nothing!

[Sgt Lobster]

Sleuth,

Customs Officers in the UK also hold commissions.

A good example of a British based police force with commissioned officers would be the RCMP; apart from constables, I understand they have a wide range of NCOs and commissioned officers.


Lobster.

[JohnKelly]

[COLOR=Blue]"Scores of British Cops Have Jetted Off For New Jobs - As Bobbies Down Under."

"100 officers have swapped the rain and strain of home for the relaxed sunshine lifestyle of Adelaide in Australia.
The first 84 officers - ranging from PC's to Inspectors - are now undergoing three month training courses.

The wages are comparable to the UK and the cost of living is cheaper. But officers have also been lured by summer temperatures off 100%F, cheap housing, beaches with top surfing and thirteen of the world

[co911]

"We have the best police in the world ". Here we go again, another stupid comment which begs the question, why then are they leaving in such high numbers Einstein?

[ftlaudcop]

how much outta pocket expense's when ya start does a new
police officewr incurr...

uniforms
boots,shoes,socks,
leather gear,
self defense weapons
and is it replaced yearly...or when needed

www.schackdaddy.com

[Sgt Lobster]

how much outta pocket expense's when ya start does a new
police officewr incurr...

uniforms
boots,shoes,socks,
leather gear,
self defense weapons
and is it replaced yearly...or when needed

www.schackdaddy.com

You don't, UK forces provide everything apart from your socks and underwear. You get annual allowances of shirts, ties, trousers etc other items get replaced on condemnation or loss.



Lobster.

[JohnKelly]

"We have the best police in the world ". Here we go again, another stupid comment which begs the question, why then are they leaving in such high numbers Einstein?

Jeez co911, you are a depressing argumentive soul.

The old Brit likes to get around.

Mate, he discovered and settled the country that you now live in and he also discoverd and settled the great land that I live in, and whilst he discoverd our New Countries, he also invaded my Old Country.

If it wasn't for England, we wouldn't be where we are today.

Alas, they can no longer play a decent game of competitive Cricket or Rugby and as far as Soccer is concerned, ah well, if it wasn't for Manchester United or Celtic, the game wouln't exist, and in any case most of the players of those teams are Irish. :eek:

The UK Officers will be welcome in Australia, albeit as Whinging Poms, but as their forefathers did, they will make a contribution to this great nation.

The Jack and the Stars of the Southern Cross that you see on our flag has a meaning,

"We've the old flag to show where we've been and the stars to show where we're going".

Cheers.

[co911]

Sorry John, I stand by my opinion. I think the comment is shallow, naive and unsupported by fact. If you find that depressing and argumentative, so be it. I don't see how Britain's colonization history has much to do with contemporaray law enforcement as US policing is now far removed from that practised in the UK. I won't expect a reply since you tend to opt out of threads you disagree with but you have my opinion nonetheless.

[JohnKelly]

cco911, I am not going to argue with you over what was reported in the UK Sun Newspaper as statements made by the UK Police Federation Chairman.

Why don't you write to the Chairman of the UK Police Federation and tell him that his comments were stupid, shallow and naive.

I'm sure he'll appreciate your opinions, them being all the way from you in America.

Ok, you've got my reply, but this is where I definitely opt out.

I know your style ;)

[Sgt Lobster]

Let's put things into perspective 'The Sun' is one of Rupert Murdock's tabloids and likes a sensational story. There are currently over 140,000 officers in England & Wales, policing an area about the size of Florida. Many people in the UK have relatives in Australia and New Zealand, and up until fairly recently it was relatively easy for a Pom to emmigrate to these countries; so it is hardly surprising that this recruitment drive attracted a lot of interest.

I am certainly not going to start claiming that the police in the UK are the best thing since sliced bread, for a start we still have numerous forces and each is different in some way from the next. I'm also not going to start debating Britain's colonial past. Mrs Jan Berry is the chairman of the Police Federation of England & Wales (like a trade union) and represents 138,000, constables, sergeants, inspectors and chief inspectors. The government here is constantly attacking our conditions of service so the quote below is aimed squarely at them. As an aside we currently have two Australians serving as officers in my Division and to be honest this is not unusual in the UK. Like any large organisation we loose officers but for every post we have there are literally hundreds of applicants. If a UK force advertised in Australia I wouldn't be surprised if it also attracted a lot of interest.

Who in their right mind wouldn't be tempted with the prospect of policing in the sun and the relaxed Australian life style?

[QUOTE]Police Federation chairman Jan Berry, who represents 124,000 officers in England and Wales, said

[JohnKelly]

Let's put things into perspective........

Lobster.

Thank you to Sgt Lobster, for putting things into perspective.

Cheers.

[Ex-plod]

Here we go again, good old civy comms officer co911 trying to be devicive and argumentative :o The whole point of the international aspect of these forums is to try and learn about each other and hopefully incorpoarte and develop each others strengths and good ideas so that everyone improves. No one is perfect and dependant on your point of view, peoples countries have different good and bad sides.I could just as easily make a list of dumb *** things you have in america as I could a list of things we have here. That goes for the present as well as the past. Not many countries with a history of expansion into indigenous lands have much to write home about, ask the Hopi or Navajo in your neck of the woods. You cant seperate the past from the present unless you like to re write history although saying that, Hollywood does a damn good job...U571, Braveheart, that crap about two Yank pilots winning the Battle of Britain on their own..the list is depresssingly long and lapped up by the gullible.
Stop trying to pick fights and try and learn something

[co911]

Thanks for the insight, I can see exactly why you are an "Ex-Plod". Sorry to burst your bubble of insanity but I'm a 13 yr veteran officer who has worked nothing but operational duties since I started. Never worked in "civvy comms" and don't plan to. Sorry.

I take umbrage (look it up), at anyone who claims that they have "the best police in the world" because it is simply a stupid remark.

By the way, big words like "devicive" are soooo much more impressive if you can spell them.

[Welpe]

U571, that crap about two Yank pilots winning the Battle of Britain

As a Yank and a serious WWII historian, I thoroughly apologize for the long list of garbage Hollywood produces. If it makes you feel any better, they tend to slaughter American history too. :(

[Sleuth]

We all get a share of the screwed up history. I was watching a Brit documentery about WWII, when the announcer calmly stated that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on December 11th.
He must have used an old English calender.

[Cockney Corner.]

I would add that some of the criticism that is directed against Hollywood over here is a little unfair. "Saving Private Ryan" got a bit of a kicking fr'instance because there aren't any British characters and it was taken as implying that only Americans landed on D Day. The fact that we landed at completely different beaches, and it would have been a little odd if Brits were wandering around on Omaha, rather got overlooked.

However, I can't defend the movie "Pearl Harbor" no matter how charitable I'm being. It's just rubbish.

[JohnKelly]

The Topic is or was, 'For The UK Cops' and it was in relation to UK Police Officers being recruited to the South Australian Police.

How then have we gone from that to Hollywood - Ameican History - Pearl Harbour & Saving Private Ryan. :confused:

[JohnKelly]

South Australia

[Sleuth]

Thanks, JOhn, that is interesting. I would like to read their views on switching from unarmed to armed policing (with revolvers, even!).

[AnGardaSiochana]

The PSNI and Australian forces are looking for Gardai to join the forces. ONly 3 applied for the PSNi compared to 300 looking to Oz for the future.

Know a few of the lads that applied, they are just sick of being treated like **** and are looking forward to good weather, money and equipment. ;)

Wasnt for the little one I would be on the plane a long time ago!

[DOAcop38]

The Topic is or was, 'For The UK Cops' and it was in relation to UK Police Officers being recruited to the South Australian Police.

How then have we gone from that to Hollywood - Ameican History - Pearl Harbour & Saving Private Ryan. :confused:


...AAAhhh, 'cause we Americans SUFFER from "A.D.D"( besides being somewhat violent,hard drinking, " very ignorant on social/world history/politics- only in the U.S. would Adults worry about wether the Kids 'TV show "The Tele Tubbies" have GAY characters- ,self serving,naive,self destructive,overly playful, and quite possibly insane) :D :D :D :D .Even in the U.S. ,officers that are brave and willing enough ,leave other states-mainly the cold,dirty and low paying East coast ,for the Southern or the Western states to start over in law enforcement.The only difference is that police training and principle,as well as tactics and laws are a bit different from state to state ,unlike the UK,so retraining takes more time. Met a Classmate that was from the UK ( former London Metro PD ) though raised in England his father was an American , and he decided that ,after (6) yrs on the force ,he'd relocate to the U.S. and California;He's happy to work LAPD and the only thing he missed about UK was the beer and his "mates" on the Dept's soccer ( he called it "footey") team.He also said that citzns were quicker to mouth off to you here than in the UK,but the crime was the same.

[DOAcop38]

Also, though its a little off the subject -what exactly are the differences betwn the police agencies(UK,Australia and New Zealand) are the laws and training that similar?or are they based more on regional issues? Seems that England has so many applicants ,they can afford to lose candidates to other "former" colonies, but wouldn't the population locally handle the needs of the various Depts in terms of recruiting?Also, even further off the subject, but can anyone tell me the difference btwn the city of London UK PD and the London Metro PD?are they totally different jursidictions are can they patrol,arrest,pursue suspects ,and investigate crimes within each others areas?

[Sgt Lobster]

Also, though its a little off the subject -what exactly are the differences betwn the police agencies(UK,Australia and New Zealand) are the laws and training that similar?or are they based more on regional issues? Seems that England has so many applicants ,they can afford to lose candidates to other "former" colonies, but wouldn't the population locally handle the needs of the various Depts in terms of recruiting?Also, even further off the subject, but can anyone tell me the difference btwn the city of London UK PD and the London Metro PD?are they totally different jursidictions are can they patrol,arrest,pursue suspects ,and investigate crimes within each others areas?


I'll try and give a summary of how things work in the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

England & Wales has one judicial system and is presently divided into 43 police areas/forces. Each force is autonomous and has its own chief constable (commissioner in London) & Police Authority.

Scotland has a separate legal system and is policed by 8 regional forces with their own chief constables & Police Boards.

Northern Ireland has a similar legal system to England & Wales and is policed by the Police Service of Northern Ireland/PSNI formerly the Royal Ulster Constabulary RC/RUC GC. The PSNI is a national force and is permanently armed, again it has a chief constable & a Police Authority.

From 01/04/06 we will also have the Serious Organised Crime Agency/SOCA.

A number of other police forces maintained by Government Departments, statutory bodies and private undertaking also exist e.g. British Transport Police/BTP, Ministry of Defence/MOD Police etc.

The Metropolitan & City of London Police are different forces. However all regular constables in England & Wales have jurisdiction throughout the 2 countries & limited jurisdiction in Scotland & Northern Ireland - there are reciprical agreements for officers in Scotland & Northern Ireland.

This is only a brief pen picture of UK policing :)

This is a helpful link:

http://www.police.uk/


Lobster.

[Cockney Corner.]

can they patrol,arrest,pursue suspects ,and investigate crimes within each others areas?

Yes. Any English or Welsh officer has full arrest powers anywhere in England and Wales. We might pursue suspects into another force area but would of course let them know so that they could help. We wouldn't patrol another force's area unless they specifically requested it.