www.perverted-justice.com [Archive] - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com

10-96

12-03-2004, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by Delta784
I think it's awesome, and I wish them the best of luck.

They have a host of failsafes in place, and I have yet to see a case of someone wrongfully accused by the group. Can you cite a single law that they have broken?

Maybe it's just me, but I'll always side with the protection of our children, versus the privacy/exposing of wanna-be pedophiles. 10-96...have you read any of the bust logs? These are SICK, SICK, people!

As the father of young children, I not only approve of their actions, I encourage them!!!!

Here is a link to how these people don't confirm information and harass a innocent person. http://www.wtvo.com/Global/story.asp?S=2111400&nav=0RePJ7u4. The fail safes are a sham and so is the homepage. These people are not concerned about protecting children, they are all about a power trip and about owning people. Most of the contribs are victims of sexual abuse,enjoy posing as minors plus they have low self esteem so this is a way for them to build up there own. I have read well over 50 chat logs from PJ. They are truely sickening but what ever happen to due process or the right to face your accuser. These people hide behinds 100's of Yahoo ID SN's. I am not a pedophile sympathizer. I don't know about you but if I was a officer of the law I wouldn't be encouraging vigilantism. For a law they have broken its quite clear. They (members of the follow up forums on PJ and PJ contributors) harass busts by telephone and that is a crime in all states. This takes in threatening phone calls or unwanted calls. If your so "protect the children" then why would you support this group who has done very little to protect children. Wouldn't you want to see proper justice served on some of if not all of these sick people?

Duke

12-06-2004, 03:08 AM

"The fail safes are a sham and so is the homepage. These people are not concerned about protecting children, they are all about a power trip and about owning people. Most of the contribs are victims of sexual abuse,enjoy posing as minors plus they have low self esteem so this is a way for them to build up there own."

I don't know how you determined the contributors to the site were victims of sexual abuse trying to seek satisfaction and vindication through their exposing of pedophiles. I really don't know where you got that information...perhaps you could explain?

"I have read well over 50 chat logs from PJ. They are truely sickening but what ever happen to due process or the right to face your accuser."

Nothing has happened to due process...The persons listed on the website are not being tried in a court of law. It is a private website, not a government entity. Nor have the alleged pedophiles lost the right to confront their accusers. They haven't been accused-as in a court of law...that's pretty much what the 6th Amendment was concerned with-"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right...to be confronted with the witnesses against him."

"I am not a pedophile sympathizer."

I dunno, buddy...If you walk like a duck, talk like a duck...

"I don't know about you but if I was a officer of the law I wouldn't be encouraging vigilantism."

We're always hiring qualified people, you should apply and find out why we feel this way. If you were an officer or a parent (doubtful on both accounts) you might have a different opinion about the rights of accused pedophiles, especially when private parties (not the government) are violating their "rights." Telephoning a pedophile to tell them they're a pedophile isn't illegal, as far as I know. The pedophiles can sue in civil court if they're so distraught. Of course, then their little online chats would really become public knowledge...:eek:

"If your so "protect the children" then why would you support this group who has done very little to protect children. Wouldn't you want to see proper justice served on some of if not all of these sick people?"

Certainly, I wish law enforcement had the resources to aggressively pursue these suspects, but we don't! Most agencies don't have the resources to allocate to this problem. Even the big ones that do only have a handful of personnel on hand to work these cases.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think you are really barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Being a parent, or a police officer/deputy (etc) can profoundly change the way you view the world. In ten years as a cop (and I'll soon be a parent), I've found out there are some pretty bad people in this world, and I don't want them anywhere near my kids. If this website helps to accomplish that, I can live with the fact that it makes "alleged" pedophiles uncomfortable with their newfound populartity.

PJ Buster

12-07-2004, 06:28 PM

Delta784 if you are aware of this host of fail-safes they have in place I'd be interested to hear about them. You must work for Perverted-Justice and have inside knowledge. All I see is this amateurish disclaimer on their pages that don't hold water. When challenged people get chided in their forums, IP blocked, and subsequently barred. I for one do not take anything they claim at face value. If you do work for that vigilante group then I question your objectivity here.

Duke, you ask why it should only be trained LE people? Because that's who I put my faith in. Trained & accountable personnel. Not anonymous basement dwelling computer hacker dweebs. You seem not to care if people are harassed at their workplace. Is it not a sworn officer's duty to uphold the law? Were these people duly processed, arrested, sentenced, and found guilty under the law?

You say LE does not have the resources to deal with them all. Do they specifically reject any attempts to file a complaint made by Perverted-Justice people? Are the so-called chat logs (not transcripts) perhaps not sufficient evidence when not conducted by a trained officer? These are serious questions that need to be addressed. Does it not strike you as odd that Perverted-Justice, until recently, had a strict policy for their staff to NOT contact LE? Doing so would result in dismissal? They have since lifted that restriction but only the head honcho there reserves the right to approve LE involvement. It seems citizens are prevented from acting out of conscience and morals once they are members there. Regular folk can call police on an apparent crime taking place.

You contend that the alleged accused have not lost their right to face their accusers. Their right is never granted as ALL members of that site operate under strict anonymity.

I hope you becoming a parent soon will not cloud your comprehension of the law. We are not talking about rights of accused pedophiles. We are talking about the rights of persons featured on an illegitimate website that's registered under fraudulent contact information. This website is listed on The Rick A. Ross Institute for the Study of Destructive Cults, Controversial Groups and Cult Movements:
http://www.rickross.com/groups/perverted_justice.html

These people who are featured there as supposedly having had illicit chats may or may not have done so. There is possibility if identity theft or deliberate set-up, or just plain mistakes.

If you can live with making alleged pedophiles "uncomfortable" on the mere say-so of a website full of unchecked, untrained, and unqualified college kids then your ten years as an officer has jaded you beyond a reasonable amount. Remember that the site has a rather vibrant followup forum where the real witch-hunting takes place. Any one can join in the hunt - do reverse lookups and utilize any and all confidential data bases legal or otherwise to add to the spoils. All based on a piece of chat that has editorial commentary added for "gallows humor" and to bias the readers. Who knows what other alterations the chat log has endured.

Please familiarize yourself with this news-article from *********.com and see what your fellow officers have to say:

"Online Vigilantes: Are Citizens' Groups Overstepping Their Bounds In Trying To Reduce Crime?" - Nov 4/04
http://www.*********.com/*********/frontend/parser.cfm?object=News&tmpl=&operation=full_news&id=93335

...or this case where Perverted-Justice have hindered rather than helped in an investigation:
"Satter case starts to lose momentum" - Dec 4/04
http://www2.townonline.com/sharon/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=139601

Their antics have given the suspect a heads-up and he was able to destroy evidence before the cops arrived. This is what happens when you leave law enforcement to amateurs who take delight on "owning" people more than they would ensuring proper prosecution takes place.

I urge police officers and civilians alike to examine Perverted-Justice closely before deciding their way of anonymous cyber stalkers is the right way.

philipw

12-16-2004, 05:45 PM

Hi Sven! Waves happily....heard the great news?

I am philipw, a member of PJ. I just wanted to mention the conviction PJ evidence scored yesterday, sending a pervert to jail for 2 years.

And then today, 5 counts were laid against a lawyer that PJ caught trying to meet a child for sex.

Christmas could not get any better....well maybe if I get that Mitsibushi I have been eyeing....

Philip W

Cop Writer

12-17-2004, 12:42 PM

It sounds to me like a couple of ACLU members in this thread need to stop visiting kiddie porn sites.

Please make your arguement in support of criminals someplace else.

:rolleyes:

Delta784

12-17-2004, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by PJ Buster
Delta784 if you are aware of this host of fail-safes they have in place I'd be interested to hear about them. You must work for Perverted-Justice and have inside knowledge.

I have absolutely no connection with Perverted Justice, other than being a fan of them. I have had contact with them, questioning their fail-safes, and I'm confident that they're legitimate.

Bottom line.....if you don't try to solicit children on the Internet, you have nothing to fear from Perverted Justice.

Cop Writer

12-17-2004, 05:08 PM

Information superhighway is the last bastion of true free speech. Listen, Steph, the fact is that sometimes we should know EXACTLY what these perverts are saying so that some ACLU JA can't try to say they were "misunderstood". People should see what kind of freaks these people are. ;)

extraaccount

04-13-2005, 02:14 AM

Information uncovered, and subsequently turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) and to other law enforcement agencies, shows that the owner of perverted-justice.com (Xavier Von Erck) has not only corrupted the morals of several minors at his site, but that he has exploited at least one minor.

Satine, a "PeeJ" contributor, who uses the line "Mrs. Von Erck", was only 16 years old when Xavier and the (at that time) co-owner Frank Fencepost was having her have hardcore sexual chats with men in their 20's and 30's, and even possibly having her watch these men masturbate on webcam in order to post it on the front page of perverted-justice.com. She was a 16 year old child when she did her first "bust". The Federal satutes state that a person is a minor until the legal age of 18. Having Satine do that would, by Federal standards, be considered the exploitation of a minor, if I am interpreting the law correctly. Satine's birthdate is: July 16, 1985 and her first "bust" was on January 1, 2002 (it was saved as an HTML file and turned over to authorities).

Further, there is information collected from the perverted-justice.com forums which indicates there are many more minors (Erika, from Canada, was 15 when she became online friends with Xavier Von Erck (owner of perverted-justice.com) and 16 when she started to help out at PeeJ). Crowgirl09 is currently a 14 year old who contacts dangerous predators for perverted-justice and harasses them. Geris was 13 and involved in a "sex" thread on the PeeJ forums in which they were discussing the taste of semen. There are many more minors involved on the PeeJ forums.

Further, evidence has come out, and has been turned over to the above mentioned authorities that proves that Xavier Von Erck himself stole someone's identity and contacted their server host (it was a server that hosts a website called www.corrupted-justice.com, which is an civil rights/anti-vigilante website which questions PJs tactics) claiming that he was this other person, so he could get them to reset the passwords for the www.corrupted-justice.com website.

On top of that, server logs indicate that Xavier Von Erck and those from perverted-justice.com were responsible for three successful hackings of the corrupted-justice.com website.

The chats these alleged perverts have are illegal and I do not condone nor support them. I think each one of them should be turned over to law enforcement and if found guilty in a court of law, be sentenced according to the laws. Each one of them-- not one here and there, but all of them. Those who prey on or exploit minors should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Even when they exploit a 16 year old who uses the online name Satine.

I feel those preying on minors online needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but as you will see in the following two links, they do more harm than good to prosecutions:
http://www2.townonline.com/sharon/opinion/view.bg?articleid=152900
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2004/12/19/sharon_settles_with_accused_official/
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=260587&page=1

here is a list of some of the things they have been able to provide provable information about perverted justice and they have turned the information over to Federal authorities:
1. that the owner of perverted-justice.com has possibly exploited at least one minor (Satine, at age 16 (she is now an adult) was made to go into chat rooms and have hardcore sex chats with men in their late 20s, 30s and possibly even older, in order for the owner of perverted-justice.com to post them on his website.)

2. that the owner of perverted-justice.com has allowed social security and DMV records to be posted on the perverted-justice forums, including the DMV records of people NOT associated with someone they have busted.

3. that the law violation of stalking occurs and is bragged about on the PJ forums. (several busts have had Followup Forum participants stalk their house, taking photos of their house, vehicles, and taking note of who is in the neighborhoods)

4. that the law violation of threats against lives, and against livlihoods are posted on the PJ forums. (one such death threat was recorded on an answering machine tape and has been turned over to authorities).

5. that the owner of perverted-justice HIMSELF stole the identity of the owner of corrupted-justice.com to unlawfully gain access to their servers to get access to their hidden forums and private messages.

6. that on three other occasions, those from perverted-justice.com have hacked into their forum systems, and stolen their databases and stolen their private information.

7. That an elderly relatives of a "bust" have been harassed.

8. That members of "PJ" have harassed neighbors and friends and relatives of "busts".

They have plenty of other proof (such as the fact that they themselves get harassed relentlessly for speaking out against perverted-justice.com with harassing phone calls, harassing instant messenger messages and harassing emails, and so does everyone else who speaks out against perverted-justice.com. Others who were defamed or harassed by those at perverted-justice.com include TeamAmberAlert's site owners (Xavier has posted photos of the owner's house on his site), the well known activist Julie Posey (they called her "money seeking whore"), a civil rights attorney from California who was working on a lawsuit against PJ (they spread lies claiming that attorney is a member of Nambla), and anyone else who speaks out against them.
You should check out their site at http://www.corrupted-justice.com and you will see the truth about perverted-justice.com and they don't just tell you to believe it, they show you actual proof of it, and provide links to where they found the proof on the PJ forums making it easy to verify.

Just look at both sides of the issue before you decide that perverted-justice.com is so great, because if your neighbor is ever busted, you too will become a target of harassment.

One last thing before I sign off on this message:
Take a long hard look at these photos. This was an EX-WIFE of a "bust" who they targeted because they could not find information on that bust himself. This harassment of her has gone on for a full year now, and she had to move to a new town to avoid the threats and harassment. Her small children had to be sent to an "undisclosed location" due to death threats against her and her children because of her ex-husband being "busted" by PJ. They threatened her and her children because they could not get to the bust himself. But here is photos they got of her off of webcam as they told her her life was going to be destroyed:
http://id_this.yafro.com/photo/124941
This is an innocent woman, who had her life destroyed because of PJ-- lets hope you never know someone busted by them, because you too just may have your information posted in their forums.

Newest Updated Information:
http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/index.php/id;1768155789;fp;2;fpid;1
"Man arrested for '01 Airforce hacks

Paul Roberts, IDG News Service

12/04/2005 09:12:15

A popular Venezuelan hacker known as "RaFa" was arrested April 2 and charged with hacking into U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) servers almost four years ago. " *Click link for full article*

But then this:
http://www.securityfocus.com/news/10868

Which discusses the hack attacks against the Air Force and also NASA (I believe it was Seth Pack who did that) this is in the last couple of paragraphs of the news article:
"Pack cooperated with investigators, but intends to help out Nu

Curt581

04-15-2005, 04:25 AM

Hey Neil.. oops, I mean Xtratabasco... Is that you? :eek:

:D :D :D

Bearcatz06

04-15-2005, 09:17 PM

Double posted for some reason.....

Bearcatz06

04-15-2005, 09:17 PM

One of the local KCMO TV Stations used them to find perverts on the 'net.....and had said perverts come to meet the "kids" they were trying to sexually abuse.....and put the whole thing on TV. :D
I have no problems with it other than the fact that they should have gotten the Police involved and arrested the dirtbags.......
They ended up getting a US Navy Recruiter, a guy that was a big-wig with a local church, a relative of one of the owners of Hallmark Greeting Cards, and some scumbag I know from my hometown.

philipw

04-18-2005, 10:37 AM

TeamAmberAlert'

Perhaps the biggest scam on the Internet today. One that preys on the relatives of missing children - extorts money from people who believe they are donating to a legitimate cause - and one that steals information from other web sites and claims it as his own.

James is truly the lowest of the low.

As for the rest of your drivel extraaccount, it is laughable. Please provide all your documented proof.

Oh and BTW - PJ has racked up another first - recently being invited to speak before 2005 annual Crime Prevention Association of Oregon conference, where I am sure if any FBI agents wanted to they could have chatted with the founders.

And what's this...???? Another arrest based on PJ chats....

[QUOTE]On March 23, 2005, fifty-year-old James David Carol was arrested for attempted Child Molestation and Distribution of Pornography to a Minor. Investigators from the Riverside County Sheriff

extraaccount

04-19-2005, 07:49 PM

PhilipW, I hope some of this information will suffice for documented proof, but some of it is hard to document when Mr. Eide aka Xavier Von Erck goes around and puts blocks up on the webarchive site to ensure that people can not access the damning evidence against him.

First the Satine information which proves that Satine was 16 years old when she participated in her first sex chat in order that Mr. Von Erck could post it on his website-- that is a 16 year old having sexual chats with men in their 20's, 30's and older while she was still a minor, at the guidance of Mr. Von Erck.

From her own blog Note the date):
http://www.superpatriot.net/blog/satine/

11:09 AM PDT Sun, May 16th (2004) | [link to post]
http://www.superpatriot.net/blog/satine/?archive=84
A little about me for those that wonder: I am 18 years old and live in the Great Northwest, more precisely, Oregon.
Teala's (Satine) birthdate is:
Birthdate: July 16, 1985
Which means July 16, 2004 she turned 19 years old.

However, her first "bust" was on January 1, 2002:
Bust by Satine @ 1/1/2002 12:00 PM PST

Perverted Justice Mark: Ted, 33
Yahoo IM: oregon_black_guy
Which, doing math would show that she was 16 years old until she turned 17 on July 16, 2002.
Coincidenally we have just found out that yet another contributor was a minor at the time of his participation at perverted-justice.com, Demetrious who was born in 1986 or 1987 and he has recently posted online statine he is a "high school prisoner" meaning he is still in high school, but in 2003 he participated in doing at least two busts (two that are ducumented).

That is two minors that Mr. Von Erck has allowed to have sex chats with minors at least two that have come to the surface, since Mr. Von Erck seems to think that rewriting history is acceptable (like the article in which he told a reporter that perverted-justice.com started in August of 2003 when in fact it was started in mid to late 2001).

If you check out http://www.corrupted-justice.com you will see the facts because they are releasing some of the damning evidence against perverted-justice.com to the public and to media and of course it was already given to the FBI and other law enforcement agencies-- but you would know that since the people from corrupted-justice.com and the authorities already have evidence that Mr. Von Erck participated in the hacking of corrupted-justice.com and you yourself allowed Von Erck under the anonymous name Ombudsman to post it on your www.corrupted-justice.NET website as a way to terrorize the people from corrupted-justice.com into not speaking out against perverted-justice.com. Yes, PhilipW, your name and information was also turned over to the FBI who were planning on turning it over to Canadian authorities, for your participation in harassment, and other crimes.

I, unlike most people who question which side is right, went right to the top- I tried to contact Xavier, but he blew me off (I suppose it was because I did not offer him enough media exposure), but also contacted corrupted-justice.com and was given PROVABLE information that I was able to do searches on and actually investigate to ensure the information was verifiable from outside sources other than corrupted-justice.com. They provided me with information on what to look for and allowed me to do my own investigating into it.

And before you blow your horn claiming I am this person or that person, or your usual claims that because I question perverted-justice.com's tactics then I must be a pedophile enabler or former bust, I am neither. I am a concerned citizen who has seen for my own eyes the exploitation of minors at perverted-justice.com and I have seen for my own eyes the harassment and stalking (both are crimes for any real LE who happens to be reading this) and yes, I have stepped up to give my real name when I myself reported what I saw. I do not have to belong to one side or the other to step up and do the right thing by reporting crimes instead of just posting the names of the loved ones of those comitting crimes and harassing those loved ones. Cowards do that.

For everyone reading, please go over to http://www.corrupted-justice.com and join their forums- they have a forum called "Just The Facts" with verifiable information which will verify every single thing I have told you. That is where I found the information, and have only started to get the truth out once I myself was able to verify, independantly, every single thing.

PhilipW is one of the head moderators of perverted-justice.com and there is plenty of "evidence" which puts him right in the midst of the harassment and attacking innocent people.

I will not repond here any more, because the more I respond, the more my own life is in danger at the hands of the cyber terrorists known as perverted-justice.com.
And thank you PhilipW for making your presence known in this forum, but now please explain for everyone why you support a website that would allow at least TWO MINORS to have hardcore sex chats with adult men in order to post them on a website. Or is that one of the questions you are going to avoid yet again?

Thank you everyone who was willing to look at verifiable facts. Please check out www.corrupted-justice.com and they will be glad to provide REAL LAW ENFORCEMENT with any evidence that is needed or requested.

And tell them that extraaccount sent you (I am someone they provided the information to and were very good with providing the information with no comments or anything to sway my opinions-- they allowed the facts to speak for itself).

philipw

04-20-2005, 09:02 AM

Shame we allow shilling here.

You are laughable extraaccount. :p :p :p

I will not thread jack this thread to address your ridiculous statements. Other then one comment on this:

Yes, PhilipW, your name and information was also turned over to the FBI who were planning on turning it over to Canadian authorities, for your participation in harassment, and other crimes.

Oh no - not the PhBI again. However, I will check with my colleagues (spelled right I hope - I hate that word) and let you know how the investigation is coming along.

BTW - did you catch the latest arrests?

Philip W

philipw

04-20-2005, 09:03 AM

snip.............They ended up getting a US Navy Recruiter, a guy that was a big-wig with a local church, a relative of one of the owners of Hallmark Greeting Cards, and some scumbag I know from my hometown.

BCz06 - I am wondering if you have had any luck following up on this scum bag? Any contact or intervention?

Thanks
Philip W

extraaccount

04-20-2005, 05:12 PM

PhilipW,
it pains me to see you avoiding the simple question:

Why are you supporting a website that has had two or three "staff members" who were minors-- VERIFIABLY minors at the time they had sex chats with men in their 20s and 30s, and in some cases watched them masturbate on webcam.

That is the only question I have for you. This is not rumor or inuendo this is verifable information which DOES check out and was passed onto law enforcement. Demetrious was 15 or 16 when he was having sexual chats with adult men on behalf of perverted-justice.com, and Satine was 16 when she had her first sex chat with adult men on behalf of perverted-justice.com (she had 15 more chats while she was 17 years old) and Erika was 15 when she became friends online with the owner of perverted-justice.com and 16 when she was participating at "PeeJ".

Not to mention those in the followup forum (crowgirl09, Geris, and many others) and especially "teh sex thread" in which Geris himself was discussing the taste of semen when he himself was only 13 or 14 years old. Why is this acceptable to you?

I thought you claimed that you help PROTECT children, not EXPLOIT children (and by federal law, their participation as "contributors" while under the age of 18 IS exploitation).

I am disappointed in not just you, but all of perverted-justice.com. I seriously thought they wanted to protect children but find out they are a bunch of cyber terrorists who become judge, jury and executioner to thousands of people (almost 1000 busts since PeeJ started in 2001 and yes that is verifiable) while at the same time exploiting minors themselves. That is very disappointing. It shows that you can not even trust those who make claims of protecting children to actually care about children, but I guess it all goes back to what Xavier Von Erck (the owner of perverted-justice.com) has said before:
Link to verify it is accurate:
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:ODF1GNBqWI4J:evenflow.abrokencrate. com/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2415%26start%3D45+EvenFlow+Com munity+%22population+control%22&hl=en

Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 2:33 pm
AngryGerman
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Member #: 5
Posts: 206
Location: Portland, OR

I don't like any children. Bringing a child into this society should be considered child abuse. But government controls of any kind just makes the problem worse. Stop feeing people for free (Adam's point on that was spot on) and they'll stop having kids. Can't feed them, won't have any more of them. Compassion is the problem, really.

Anyway that is old history. Bottom line is I am ashamed of you for not standing up and saying that perverted-justice.com exploiting minors is not acceptable. Because exploiting minors is NOT acceptable and those who do it or participate in it should be held accountable in a court of law.

This is my final post on the subject. I will let facts speak for themselves.

BrickCop

04-20-2005, 05:35 PM

Bearcatz06

04-20-2005, 05:59 PM

extraaccount

04-20-2005, 10:32 PM

First, my apologies-- my intention was not to help in "hijacking" this thread, it was to make sure that both sides of the perverted-justice.com issue was heard, with verifiable information, not just inuendo and accusations.

I am not accusing the owner of perverted-justice.com of being a pedophile either. I am just stating that he allowed minors to do "busts" for his website for him to post.

As for PhilipW, he is a head moderator for perverted-justice.com and also was the owner of a website www.corrupted-justice.NET which the owner of perverted-justice.com himself, along with PhilipW, and most of the other "top" people at perverted-justice.com had started to slander, and harass and terrorize the people at www.corrupted-justice.COM. (much of it is backed up on HTML files for verification).

I would say it is a "feud" between perverted-justice.com and corrupted-justice.com but that would be an untrue statement. Two Canadians and four Americans started corrupted-justice.com a year ago (April 29, 2004) after they started voicing their concerns about how perverted-justice.com violated civil rights and broke laws (stalking, harassment, threats, and so much more). They have spent the entire year investigating perverted-justice.com and passing their findings immediately to law enforcement and to lawyers.

Starting approximately June or July of 2004, PhilipW set up corrupted-justice.NET and used those forums to allow people from perverted-justice.com to literally hunt down those who spoke out against them, hack into the corrupted-justice.COM forums and server and post all of the stolen Private Messages and hidden forum posts on the corrupted-justice.NET website. Two members of corrupted-justice.com had their identity stolen online by someone involved in corrupted-justice.NET in one case the person from perverted-justice.com posted very perverted messages claiming to be one member so they could "invent evidence" against him. It is verifiable because they had the wrong address for that person, and the address that was posted on corrupted-justice.net was the address that was given in these perverted messages that someone had made posing as this person from corrupted-justice.com.

To make a long story short, six people started to question perverted-justice.com publicly and have since then, those from perverted-justice.com has harassed them by phone, by instant messenger, by email, talked about putting a bullet in one person, and so much more, in order to "shut them up". It is not a feud. One site is pointing out the flaws of perverted-justice.com an in return perverted-justice.com is using illegal and unethical tactics (hacking, threats, defamation) to shut them up in order that they can keep telling people what they want people to hear, which is not the truth. I just wanted the truth to be told. That is all.

As I said before I will leave this forum, but if you really are confused like you say you are, feel free to check out both sites (especially the followup forums at perverted-justice.com where all of the personal information of neighbors, friends and family members of busts are posted) and also feel free to go to http://www.corrupted-justice.com and in one forum in particular, the "Just The Facts" forum, they are posting links to information both on the perverted-justice.com website and other places around the entire internet which can be independantly verified, of things that perverted-justice.com does wrong. I was a longtime lurker at both sites and decided to follow along but in recent weeks and months I have seen Mr. Von Erck try to "rewrite history" by covering up some of the questionable or illegal acts that perverted-justice.com was involved in, and lie to reporters about when "PeeJ" actually started (the most recent article states it was started in August of 2003, when in fact it was started, and yes there is proof to back this up) back in mid to late 2001. That is two years of wrong doings he is trying to cover up. (ref: http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news/2005/02/17/Focus/Apd-Groups.Fight.Web.Predators-867754.shtml)
"Started in August 2003 by Xavier Von Erck and a friend, the organization's goal, as posted on their Web site is "
Yet there are busts archived all over the internet in search engines that date back to January 1, 2002, with 56 "busts" posted by that date (now they did not do all 56 in one day, so that would indicate that they were doing this in 2001).

Like I said above, my apologies if it seems like I helped in "hijacking" this thread. I just wanted to ensure that verifiable FACTS were stated, not just the rhetoric that those involved at perverted-justice.com want people to hear. That was my only intention.

Now, I may get accused of being this person or that person by those who support perverted-justice.com (everyone who questions them is automatically labeled a "pedo enabler" or "pedo" and in some cases accused of being a disgruntled bust.) I am none of those but there are plenty of people who have been called that, including a well known Civil Rights attorney named Dennis Roberts, whom there was an entire thread on the corrupted-justice.NET website accusing him of being a NAMBLA member, and so many other slanderous things (that thread, has been saved as HTML files to ensure that it can be verified).

Just make sure you check below the "surface" at perverted-justice.com and I am sure those at corrupted-justice.COM will gladly open the doors of their entire site to legitimate law enforcement agencies for them to look below their surface too.

I will no longer post in this thread, no matter what is said.

philipw

04-21-2005, 07:34 AM

*scratching head*

I have no idea WTF is going on or who to believe... :confused:

Am I to understand the founder of the site which is intended to expose pedophiles is (or was accused) of being a pedo himself? :eek: :confused:

Can any of the O.com regulars help me out w/this one? :confused:

Not really. What he is trying to say is that PJ has used minors as contributors. A contributor at PJ, is an adult that goes online pretending to be a minor and sits in chat rooms waiting for adult scum to approach them.

This has long been a whine of the pro-pedo faction - and as evidence they cite posts they have found at various web sites. A suspect source by any means.

He is also rambling about corrupted-justice.NET, a site I host and manage. CJ.net was set up to expose the origianl six members of another site - corrupted-justice.com - four of whom were later to be proven as pedos or very disturbed individual with pedo tendencies.

Quite frankly, if a mod would like to lock, I see no reason for this thread to continue. I appreciate the original posters intent, but allowing a place for the pro-pedo faction to once again mouth off is not needed. Not that extraaccount may be a member of that group, however his constant shilling for a pro group leaves him suspect.

I would also like to express appreciation and a huge thank you to all the LEO's that have come to work with PJ especially over the past year. Your involvement has led to may arrests and convictions. This thanks also extends to DA's who have seen how serious the problem of online solicitation of minors is, and have acted by using the evidence provided by PJ.

When PJ opens in Canada, much of the integration with LEO's here will already be in place. This is in no small part as a result of the acceptance by LEO's and LEA's in the US who have come to see PJ as a positive and useful force. Many Canadian LEO's are awaiting the day.

It is an ongoing and continuous struggle. One that will not end any time soon. The exploitation of children by adults and the sexual solicitation of minors online by adults, is a plague. The efforts of everyone involved are appreciated.

Philip W

To quote a friend: The views expressed are my own and are not representive of any agency or organization that I may be a member of. Nor do they reflect any position I might hold as part of any agency or organization. These are my thoughts, and mine alone.

Netopalis

04-21-2005, 12:58 PM

CGPD4566

04-24-2005, 11:35 PM

VeritasAequitas

04-26-2005, 09:48 AM

I was absolutly disgusted after visiting that site... I couldnt even read 1/2 of what was posted... Just a reminder of how sick and ****ed up some people are.

I really hope that the powers that be find a way to even things out, and those sick ****s will get what they diserve...

And on a side note, I feel that the parents need to do a better job with their children and spend more time with them... I dont think a kid from a healthy family would be on the net and looking for comfort from a 35 year old pervert who makes it clear that he wants to have sex with a 12 year old girl...

SICK!!!!

extraaccount

05-01-2005, 05:56 PM

I'm in utter shock that ANYONE would defend pedophiles... :eek: that's wrong. What's more important to you? Privacy of your sick morales or the innocence of a CHILD. Anyone who is against this site seriously needs to reconsider what they are fighting for, because you're wrong. If you don't agree with me, too bad, because you're wrong. End of story.

What is utterly shocking to me is anyone who even posts at a police forum would not accept that some anonymous thugs on the internet accusing someone of being a pedophile does not make them one. So I could claim you are a wannabe pedophile and post your family's personal information and you think that is acceptable? That is EXACTLY what those at perverted-justice.com do. They have a chat with someone using a screen name. Then they have that person call. Then they use the phone number to trace all kind of information about that person. There has been quite a few times they have had the wrong information. Hell quite a few of them, they can not even find the right address for. Yet to say this type of vigilantism is wrong makes me a bad person???

Every REAL police officer at these forums KNOW that a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. A police officer can actually witness a guy robbing a bank and they still have to call him the alleged perpetrator. That is because he has rights. Perverted-justice.com does not care about rights. I am not defending pedophiles- I want them all to rot in jail once they are found guilty in a court of law. But I am saying that even those accused by some anonymous thugs on the internet have a right to face their accuser in a court of law, the right to remain silent, the right to be judged NOT by a bunch of cyber terrorists but rather by a judge or a jury, all of whom have to be held accountable if they make mistakes.

Those at perverted-justice.com HAVE made plenty of mistakes and HAVE broken laws, yet there is no accountability because they are anonymous, so they can do anything they want and get away with it.

If you think that is alright, then I sure as helll hope you go back to class and learn about people having actual rights-- rights that MUST be upheld.

And a note for PhilipW: I know why you have not put at PJ site up in Canada yet:
http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec163.1.html

Definition of "child pornography"

163.1 (1) In this section, "child pornography" means

(a) a photographic, film, video or other visual representation, whether or not it was made by electronic or mechanical means,

(i) that shows a person who is or is depicted as being under the age of eighteen years and is engaged in or is depicted as engaged in explicit sexual activity, or

(ii) the dominant characteristic of which is the depiction, for a sexual purpose, of a sexual organ or the anal region of a person under the age of eighteen years; or

(b) any written material or visual representation that advocates or counsels sexual activity with a person under the age of eighteen years that would be an offence under this Act.

Just something to consider-- and for everyone else:
There is documented proof that there has been THREE contributors at perverted-justice.com (that is known of so far) that were between the ages of 15 and 17 years old- meaning 15 to 17 year olds going into chat rooms having hardcore sex chats with adults in their 20s, 30s, and older-- and yet nobody out against that?

What is this world coming to? I stand up and say people have rights and am accused of defending pedophiles, yet noone seems concerned that teenage children have been working for perverted-justice.com going out having hardcore sex chats and watching men masturbate on webcam.

I sure hope that some police officers at this forum actually take the time to check out the information I have posted or check out http://www.corrupted-justice.com because they have been reporting it to the FBI who is actively investigating.

I do NOT condone, support or even like the fact that guys would prey on minors online or offline but am even more angered that Xavier Von Erck (the owner of perverted-justice.com) would KNOWINGLY use minors to have sex chats with adults and then not even report them to the police!!

CGPD4566

05-02-2005, 01:58 PM

What is utterly shocking to me is anyone who even posts at a police forum would not accept that some anonymous thugs on the internet accusing someone of being a pedophile does not make them one. So I could claim you are a wannabe pedophile and post your family's personal information and you think that is acceptable? That is EXACTLY what those at perverted-justice.com do. They have a chat with someone using a screen name. Then they have that person call. Then they use the phone number to trace all kind of information about that person. There has been quite a few times they have had the wrong information. Hell quite a few of them, they can not even find the right address for. Yet to say this type of vigilantism is wrong makes me a bad person???

Oh, I apologize. When you put it like that, I was totally out of line... :rolleyes: you can go ahead and call me all you want, fact of the matter is, no one put a gun to my head to solicite a child online, no one put a gun to my head to give out my phone number. If you don't want certain information possibly out on the internet...DONT GIVE IT OUT. You can have NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY if you're giving out your phone number over an online chat client in my opinion. I never said you were a bad person, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I said anyone who defends a pedophile, WITH EVIDENCE BEHIND THE ACCUSATION, is sick...I-N M-Y O-P-I-N-I-O-N.

But I am saying that even those accused by some anonymous thugs on the internet have a right to face their accuser in a court of law, the right to remain silent, the right to be judged NOT by a bunch of cyber terrorists but rather by a judge or a jury, all of whom have to be held accountable if they make mistakes.

Yes, you're correct...if in fact they were being prosecuted which they aren't, so basically your point is moot. Nice zinger though, it would work if they were being prosecuted. If you don't want to be "judged" by a bunch of "cyber terrorists" when they have chatlogs of you soliciting sex to a minor...STOP IT. Don't do it, and you won't have that problem......ever......

You have rights, you have this and that in America, but when you do it online you wave those rights. If I want to be private about something, I wouldn't use a medium that is vastly spread over the internet, especially if it was this such topic.

What is the world coming to? The world is full of sick and twisted *******s and the panzies who stand up for them. You do not have a very convincing case in my eyes to play your role as a "mediator" while expressing your views. It's fine to stand up for rights, but do it when it should be presented. No one gives two ****s about your rights when you solicite a kid online. When it goes to court, I would stand by rights as much as anyone else, but those rights do NOT have to be upheld if you willingly throw them away.

my 2

extraaccount

05-02-2005, 06:43 PM

I am busy right now but hopefully within a week I will have time to respond properly- I appreciate your response but when I respond I will provide you with proof that they do NOT target the bust who had the illegal chat (which I am not defending, he may have rights but so do the minors they are preying on) but they DO target neighbors, co-workers, bosses, and spouses and children of busts. So if you think because Joe Schmoe down the street had an illegal chat, that means I have to endure being harassed and having my rights trampled on, you are sadly mistaken.

Like I said above, I will compose something polite, and factual that you yourself can click on a link to prove, which will show that the "busts" are not the only ones getting harassed-- alot of innocent people who are around a bust are getting harassed, including the children of busts. But if you think that is acceptable to have hundreds of anonymous cyber terrorists calling a neighbors house harassing them, and harassing a boss into firing a "bust" , then I sure hope you are not wearing a badge.

Oh and for the record, PeeJ has 17 thousand plus members MOST OF WHICH signed up, made an initial post (a requirement to see the forums) and then never came back to the PJ site after that. So the majority of their members are people who joined to see what it was about and never came back, they have about one to two hundred AT THE MOST who actually support them and do the harassing, threatening, intimidating, and all the other stuff they are so proud of.

S/O245

05-09-2005, 08:26 AM

i heard about them on the cincinnati news when the preverted justice.com group turned in a cincinnati lawyer and he was arrested i belive he was convicted and sent to prison. He was doing something very wrong and probably also thought he was above the law and he found out different. maybe he will stay in prison maybe someone will Censored so he dont come back out of prison. I dont think child rapists should get jail time. But thats a personal opinion of it. But what i hate to see is a court that gives a bad prison term to a person convicted of such crimes. Some of the terms given are a joke and they judge should be arrested for allowing such things to happen. Some judges in my book are too crooked and need to be locked up.

Delta784

05-09-2005, 11:16 AM

10-36

05-09-2005, 11:44 AM

A lot of blather about nothing. From the most recent bust at Perverted-Justice:

This conviction marks twelve convictions in the last ten months. We are especially pleased of the fact that all twelve convictions have come in twelve different states, showing exactly how wide our cooperation with police is. We are very pleased to have a rate of more than one conviction a month over the last ten months, and hope that this rate only continues for the future. With increasing LE contacts month by month, we can only believe that these successes will continue for years to come.

It may be just me, but one would think that after working with 12 different agencies (and all the agencies required to get these scum to court etc.) in 12 states in such a short period of time would be commendable. To get 12 convictions in that time is rather envious.

I would also think that if there was anything hinky about Perverted-Justice one of those agencies would have caught on and not followed through with the investigation and laying of charges. The resulting media attention must also be attracting a rather close look from various agencies, yet we hear no complaints.

Nope, IMHO, Perverted_justice is doing an excellent job and is living up to their stated principles quite well. They deserve whole hearted encouragement.

r_nevermind

05-13-2005, 08:32 AM

BreakinChains

05-17-2005, 11:54 PM

yeah these guys/gals teamed up with my local news and when people came to the door they filmed them. Sad to say one was a reserve police officer. Some sick people out there.

personallyjulia

05-18-2005, 10:57 AM

10-96

Great site... I will post it as a favorite, right after I throw-up!!! God these people are so evil, so sick! :mad:

jasc451

05-31-2005, 09:12 AM

maybe the reason you should be throwing up isn't because of the site but the people that are posted there.

extraaccount

06-06-2005, 02:55 AM

First, to show confirmable proof that Satine was a minor when she was going into chat rooms having sex chats with men in their 20s, 30s, and 40s and in several cases watched them masturbating on webcam, see here:
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/09/15/perverted_justice/index.html

Written Sept. 15, 2003:
Article says:
"Satine," an 18-year-old college sophomore who lives in Oregon, pretends to be a 13 to 15-year-old girl in Yahoo's regional chat rooms.
but then states:
"Obviously, they're not actual pedophiles," says Satine, who since joining the effort in August 2002 as an unpaid volunteer has made more than 20 such "busts."
but then her first bust was January 1, 2002. So she was doing "busts" in Jaunuary 2002, yet didn't start until August 2002?? Further, she turned 18 on July 16 2003. So that means in January 2002, she was 16 years old and she did one "bust" when 16. She then did fifteen other busts when she was 17 years old which means she did 16 busts total (had sex chats that were posted on the perverted-justice.com website) by the time she hit her 18th birthday. These are not numbers I am pulling out of a hat-- myself and others have been actively investigating perverted-justice.com for more than a year, and turning ALL of the information over to law enforcement agencies, including the FBI agencies in four different states.

Now, it is longer than what I wanted to take to respond, but as for them targeting predators only-- that is not true. Here is just one of several instances in which they targeted the wrong man:
**Please note: In this first example, the person's last name has been edited out to protect the falsely accused**

Saved as HTML-- Thread:
Monticello > Perverted-Justice.com Forums > Perverted Justice - Followup Forums > Southwest and Northwest > Washington > mpeterson14 - Matt, 29 - Burien, WA - 5/23/2004

05-23-2004 #10
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*edit- The Seattle Times reporter is NOT 'our' Matt *******.

05-23-2004 #12
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edited to say:

CONFIRMED: THE MATT ******** AT THE SEATTLE TIMES NEWSPAPER IS NOT OUR PERV. PLEASE LEAVE HIM ALONE.

Same thread, different page:
05-24-2004 #38
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edited to say:

CONFIRMED: THE MATT ******* AT THE SEATTLE TIMES NEWSPAPER IS NOT OUR PERV. PLEASE LEAVE HIM ALONE.
__________________
Seph's Clickables:
Net Abductions
Houston area minors lured away by online "friends" have increased to over one a week

Of the missing teens, 8.6 percent ran away after meeting people on the Internet.

Me: wow...want some lasagna?
soonerjustice781 : umm no thanx, i'm gonna burst

Even after stating over and over that this is NOT the right person, she goes and sends this to the a newspaper staff member:

05-25-2004 #44
Persephone 4125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDog
Do we know anything about Matt's job yet?

I will be e-mailing the Seattle Times. Test of message to follow once it is sent. I will report back any response I get. Please, let's not inundate the ST with emails.

Since this is still the last message, I'll edit this in:

After running the maze of the Seattle Times website, I found an e-mail address for the ***** ***** (as well as the listing for Matt ****** as a reporter in the ****** department). Here is the e-mail I sent:

Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: "<name edit>" <<name edit>@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Subject: Is this your colleague, Matt Peterson?
To: ******@seattletimes.com

Dear Ms ******;

I am a visitor at a website called Perverted Justice
(http://www.perverted-justice.com/). The goal of the
website is to expose adults who try to use the
internet to entice minors into sex. Recently a person
in your area named Matt ****** was posted for having
a chat with a person he believed to be a 13 year old
girl. It was noted that there is a ***** reporter at
the Seattle Times by the name of Matt *****. We
have not confirmed that the man who had the chat is
the Matt ***** at your paper, but Matt the chatter
did send the "girl" a photo of himself, as well as
many other pieces of personal information including
his home phone number (206-***-****) and his home
address (**** *** Ave *, Seattle, WA ******-****). We
invite you to view the photo and the chat to see if
this is your colleague.

The content of the chat logs can be very adult in
nature and rather disturbing. It is our hope that by
exposing these people to the internet community, as
well as their own, that we can prevent children from
being used and exploited for some adult's selfish
purposes.

You can read the chat log here
http://www.perverted-justice.com/?archive=*******.

Please take your time to look at the website. I would
especially like to direct your attention to the FAQ
and Info for Police links at the top of the page as
well as The PeeJ Guide For Parents and First Time
Visitors in the right hand column.

Please give the site a thorough look so you can be
confident that this is a legitimate and serious
website, not a prank or means for people to get petty
revenge.

If you have any questions, you can contact me at this
e-mail address.

Sincerely,
A concerned Mom of 4 daughters
The reply:

05-25-2004 #45
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LISTEN UP PEOPLES!

CONFIRMED The Matt ******* at the Seattle Times is NOT the perv.

Here is the correspondance I received from the sports editor at the Seattle Times:

Subject: RE: Is this your colleague, Matt Peterson?
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:11:23 -0700
From: "***** ******" *****@seattletimes.com> Add to Address Book
To: "<name edit>" <<name edit>@yahoo.com>

<name eidt>:

I am confident this is not our Matt ******. It is not his photo,
phone or address. He's a very honest, sincere young man who works his tail
off here, is not married and not 29.

The name is common, unfortunately, and I would hate to have him stained
with suspicion for this. I have talked to him and passed the email on
to him as well.

Thank you for bringing it to our attention. It is horrifying, and I
commend you for watching out for this kind of abuse.

**** *****

And my reply:

Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: "<name edit>" <<name edit>@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Subject: RE: Is this your colleague, Matt *****?
To: "***** *****" ******@seattletimes.com>

Thank you for your reply. I will let it be known that
Matt ***** at the Seattle Times is not the man from
the chat. I hope the actions of his namesake do not
cause him any grief.

Can anyone who posted anything in regards to the Matt ******* at the Seattle Times please edit their posts and add something to the effect of:

CONFIRMED: THE MATT ******* AT THE SEATTLE TIMES NEWSPAPER IS NOT OUR PERV. PLEASE LEAVE HIM ALONE.

...thank you....
Add to Persephone 4125's Reputation Report Bad Post Reply With Quote
How many times do they have to say that the person is NOT the right person before they stop harassing the wrong person???

extraaccount

06-06-2005, 02:56 AM

another one? Sure thing:
http://web.archive.org/web/20041015212108/http://www.wtvo.com/Global/story.asp?S=2111400&nav=0RePJ7u4

quoting part:
MILWAUKEE (AP) - It's a website created to expose suspected Internet predators. But the site could be targeting innocent people, as a Milwaukee bank teller found out.

Molly Brady got a threatening call from a man who said her phone number was posted on the website as a sexual predator. So, Brady typed her phone number into an Internet search engine and found it was linked to a site called "perverted justice."

Okay, okay-- another example so you get the point, they do NOT have correct information on their website:
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:6mZXcvbomdIJ:www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi%3FArtNum%3D21667%26Disp%3D2+fathertorq ue&hl=en

3. To: FatherTorque (#0)

http://www.perverted-justice.com/index.php?archive=vegaslicker89014

I would like my image taken down immediately! this is a model for my site

this is the massage I have sent you.

you are destroying this mans image, he is not a pedophile! as in the story on http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/09/15/perverted_justice/index_np.html, clearly the girl take an image from anyplace she can, this clearly shows that not only are the images of the pedifiles fake, but now the so called victoms are fake, I would hate to have mt childs image being sent as a teen looking for sex. you are clearly creating hurting a lot more people that just the alleged pedifiles

your whole site goes by the premise that the image your pedophiles use are theirs, how do you validate there images?

you should really rethink about posting images of people, god for bid if my model should get attacked from your site claiming he is a pedophile.

here are two links to show you, if you need me to dig up more photos of my model to prove you have the wrong image to your pedifile

http://www.gaytshirt.com/catalog2/images/images_big/gbFT02_pic6.jpg http://www.gaytshirt.com/catalog2/images/images_big/gbFT07_pic1.jpg

if this is not taken down by Monday I will get a lawyer to sue for damages.

Bill Horton http://www.gaytshirt.com

wmhorton posted on 2004-03-06 10:06:08 ET Reply Trace

That is just SOME of the information we have collected directly proving perverted-justice.com targets the wrong people and has the wrong information posted on their website.

And while I am here, I will post proof that they track down information and post it for all to see, on the CHILDREN of busts. INSTEAD of contacting law enforcement to protect those children, they post the information on their easily accessible forums so any pervert or predator can read it and find children-- I have edited out the child's name for posting here-- I would also like to make it known that Xavier Von Erck (not his real name), owner of perverted-justice.com himself, has posted on his website stating that pedophiles DO read their forums, and in one case one admitted pedophile was posting in their forums debating the pedophilia issue. (I of course have all of that saved also):
From the followup forum thread on the bust:
http://www.perverted-justice.com/?archive=by_tor69

03-17-2004 #5
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WOW and he has a 2 yr old. these guys never stop amazing me. will get to work and see what i can find

03-17-2004 #20
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This is the white pages link that lists 4 *******.
http://www.smartpages.com/whitepage...ds&*******

We just need to find out which one Jason lives at (the Jason that has a 2 year old son named T*******)

03-17-2004 #25
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I tried searching a few places....

but here is my thought- "how many T***** ******'s can there be that were born 2.5 years ago?"

Does anyone know how to look up birth records?
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Just when I was getting used to yesterday, along came today.

03-17-2004 #29
jayRess
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>>> UNCONFIRMED <<<

Searching for a birth notice in the newspaper there
for T****** ******* yields

http://tinyurl.com/2o4fp

which indicates child DOB on or around Sept-**-2001
in the paper shown.

Perhaps it's available in a library somewhere, might
name mother, father and son and help confirm other
info.

Good Luck.

Now, that bust, not only kept whipping his penis out on webcam in front of his 2 year old son (the child they are tracking down info on) but the bust also had a bowl of drugs sitting within reach of the child, and those at perverted-justice.com did NOT report it to police OR even child protection services.. Is perverted-justice.com really what you want to believe is protecting children?? People can not seriously be that naive, can they??

extraaccount

06-06-2005, 03:30 AM

extraaccount

06-06-2005, 05:12 AM

I'm a mother of three young girls, the oldest of whom is 12, and I totally support what "PeeJ" is doing. I also feel, however, that if parents spent more time with their children, monitoring their internet usage (mine don't spend one minute without my husband or me there), then the sort of thing that "PeeJ" does would be unnecessary!

Also, I thought extraaccount said that he wouldn't post anymore! You sound like an enabler to me. Do you have children?

Actually, I am not a biological parent but had spent ten years raising kids for parents who were unable to raise their own kids; So I have been in a parenting role and am furthering my education in child psychology field. So I DO understand how to protect children just fine.

No, I am not an "enabler", but I am a concerned citizen who at first thought perverted-justice.com was a wonderful thing-- I really did. But when I looked into their forums, and saw the names, addresses and even DMV records and social security numbers of people other than the bust (such as DMV records of family members of a bust and DMV records of everyone with the same last name as a bust) I decided that something was just not right. So myself and several other people got together and started to "compare notes" as to what we saw going on at "PJ". We decided to speak out against it, and investigating to find the TRUTH.

What is the real name of perverted-justice.com owner? The one who posts the claims that these busts really had these chats, and claims that they have pedophilic thoughts? It is NOT Xavier Von Erck. That is a pseudonym. A fake name. He is anonymous. If I claimed you were a pedophile, wouldn't you want to know who I am so you can face your accuser? Under the Constitution of the USA, you HAVE that right. You really do. Don't worry, I am not accusing you of anything other than not digging deep enough before you decide PJ is a good thing.

I will be glad to give you my real name too. I am not anonymous, nor is anyone at corrupted-justice.com, the site of concerned citizens who have spent more than one year investigating the activities of perverted-justice.com. You want facts? Go here:
http://www.corrupted-justice.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=43

that link will give you things we feel are wrong with perverted-justice.com, and actual verifiable links and proof of what we feel is wrong with PJ. Not just us saying "they did this and did that", but actual links and information on how to find each and every single thing that is claimed so you yourself can verify it yourself, on the PJ forums, and in news articles, and in independant articles written about PJ.

I really do not want you to take my word for it that PJ is untrained, unethical and engages in some illegal activities. I want you to be responsible enough to verify everything yourself. I want you, before you say PJ is a good thing, to know what REALLY goes on at PJ.

As someone who has been in the parenting role, yes, I wanted to know if my neighbor is a predator, so I can better protect the kids in my care, but I would not want 100 different people calling me anonymously saying "beware of the boogy man".
Most do not even give their real information when they DO contact law enforcement, as evidenced by this post by someone at PJ:
From the perverted-justice.com followup forum for the bust "spongebob_giantdick" (I didnt pick the username, so sorry that it has a foul word in it):
01-06-2005 #21
Noalani
La chingona -

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I have a "name" and cell number I give to goverment agencies when they request it.

Not my name, and the cell number can be changed at any time.

It does give you a sense of credibility when you have a name to give, and a way they can get you if they need to.

But...is is PERSONAL CHOICE. I do not advocate that others do as I do. But it hasnt been a problem yet.
So even when they DO involve government agencies, they do not give their real names and use a disposable cell phone number-- they want to make accusations but do not want to be held accountable if they are wrong (which by my other posts, you can see that they ARE wrong in more than one occasion).

They are cowards-- there is only one who is not anonymous and that is because his screen name is his real name. The rest are anonymous and nobody is able to face their accusers.

As a parental figure, I want to teach the kids in my life that they have to be held accountable for their actions. The PJers have hacked the corrupted-justice.com forums three times, and on a separate occasion, "Xavier Von Erck" stole the identity of Scott Morrow, the owner of corrupted-justice.com in order to trick the server host into resetting passwords so Xavier could illegally gain access to the forums and private messages, which he took, and then posted on the perverted-justice.com sister site which was corrupted-justice.NET. So Xavier himself (using his own IP numbers, no proxies) illegally stole an identity of Scott Morrow to illegally gain access to the corrupted-justice.COM forums, and due to him beng anonymous, how can he be held accountable for that? He thinks he can't, but the FBI has received a report with all evidence including all server logs and a statement from the server host.

That is what is sad-- don't you want your children to learn how to be responsible for their own behaviors and choices? Or do you want them to grow up in a world where anonymous people can destroy their lives and not be held responsible for it if they make a mistake? I sure hope you are teaching them to accept responsibility for their actions and to accept whatever consequences there are when they do something wrong or bad.

I HATE PEDOPHILES- I can not stress that enough, and have spent many years online helping to put child exploiters and child predators behind bars. There are other activists, (one being Julie Posey, who is a world famous online activist protecting children) who have spoken out against perverted-justice.com. Even law enforcement officers have stated that they can impede actual law enforcement investigations.
Read this:
http://www.govtech.net/magazine/story.php?id=91688

"We call them vigilante sites," said Sgt. Dave Jones of the San Diego Police Department's Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force.
and also from the same article:
Law enforcement officials are skeptical, though.

Jones of the San Diego Police Department said his Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force takes tips from anyone, but that information must be confirmed by law enforcement. Evidence provided by groups such as Perverted Justice is almost useless, he said. "It's actually more work for us than if we find the leads ourselves because we have to go back and redo everything they did to confirm what they did."
and:
Jones said he's worked cases where Perverted Justice got in the way of criminal investigators. "We've had them hit on undercover operations we were going on," Jones said. "Law enforcement has gone back to them and said 'Hey, we're working this site. Back off.' They basically go, 'Screw you. We're doing what we want.'"
and:
[QUOTE]"It's sleazy," said C

10-36

06-06-2005, 12:21 PM

So let's see....they just got conviction #15. And the ever so anonymous Xavier and a anonymous contributor had to show up in court, in another state, with the trip paid for by the DA.

Now that's taking anonymous to a brand new level.

Conviction #15 was a different one. Convicted for threatening the anonymous Xavier and the anonymous contributor. But also told to get sexual perversion counselling because of his chat.

I wish I was so anonymous that a DA would fly me to another state, at thier expense and let me bring some of this scum down.

15 convictions! By an anonymous group! Some LEO's would like those stats.

This just in - an arrest in Trenton NJ. The second time the Trenton police have worked with perverted-justice.

This is the second arrest Trenton police have made after working with volunteers from Perverted-Justice.com. In December, they arrested Benjamin Brown of Trenton for attempting to meet what he thought was a 13-year-old girl at a West Chester junior high school.

And the lawyer that is mentioned above...a real winner that one. Also a poster bot for the pro-pedo group (cj.com) who tried to protect him. Read about him here:

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050518/NEWS01/505180351

angelsabove911

06-06-2005, 01:20 PM

All I have to say is .. No online sites are safe and helpful to anyone that has been abused . As I am a victim ,When I got my PC you tend too search the web and then you meet people and you talk and then you find out people are not who they say they are .Or you think a site is nice only to find out that it has nasty stuff on it . We had a site that you can download music and stuff well when my stepson told me it had other stuff I got ready of it .Their is so much out their and it is not easy to get rid of it .1 get busted and closes another site goes up . This is all over the world .They can't even watch the PEDOPHILES that are out on the street ... look at the past months and the children that have died. My God .. their was 1 that was just released and I called to find out were he was at and they had no clue.I had to make tons of calls for 2 weeks and finally they found him .They said they were not able to find him because he had 3 alienness id numbers.Well ,he could of skip town and State in 2 weeks .We all know the programs need to be improved but I don't see it happening .
We just have to watch what is out their and we know what is right and wrong , If you need to turn them in do so .Never give up thinking the system is not going to work ,and what is the use .
I felt that way and still do at times but I keep going .I just get sick of the run around and feel the abuser has more rights then I do .But I did not fight for 16 years for nothing it was for the safety of others as well as myself and family .
We can't get rid of it all but we can stop some ..

Have a great day all
angels

djack16

06-07-2005, 11:53 PM

www.perverted-justice.com is EXACTLY why vigilantism can totally mess up an innocent person's life.

I am ALL for catching pedophiles but I will NEVER sacrifice the rights of any American to do it. These sickos will be brought down by the rules of our nation and not by the rules of an inaccurate web site. They should be doing this privately to protect all parties involved; especially the suspect's family members.

And to label people pedophiles because they don't agree with the vigilante practices of this web site deserves great shame.

CGPD...everybody must have their rights. Sick-f**k, pedophile or not. I'd like to rip their freaking heads off for taking advantage of children like that but it isn't going to happen. They will be put through our system and locked up and I can live with that. Good luck cashing in your 2

djack16

06-07-2005, 11:55 PM

My previous post isn't to deny that I am happy about real pedophiles who were caught. Hell yea. That is awesome. There are other considerations though besides just catching the suspect.

extraaccount

06-14-2005, 04:57 AM

All I have to say is .. No online sites are safe and helpful to anyone that has been abused . As I am a victim ,When I got my PC you tend too search the web and then you meet people and you talk and then you find out people are not who they say they are .

angelsabove911, I am sorry to hear that you were victimized-- I am a survivor of severe sexual abuse myself (maybe that is why I take harassing preditors instead of locking everyone of the 1000+ perverted-justice.com "busts" up in prison as seriously as I do), but I can tell you that there really IS a place where you can feel safe online and seek support, advice, etc. about the abuse issues. Many years ago (about 8 or 9 years ago now) I used to belong to a Usenet support group that was wonderful, but there were so many perverts who would pose as caring people to get details of abuse-- so they petitioned for and succeeded in creating a moderated group-- and the love, support, advice, guidance, etc. is overwhelmingly positive there. I left their after I had begun to actually heal and grow, but many of those who are far along in abuse recovery still stay to help those new to recovery. There really IS life after abuse. Here is a link in case you want to check it out-- I would have tried to send it privately, but decided that it might be uncomfortable to get emails or private messages from a total stranger, so here is the link and my apologies if this post is off topic.
Link is at:
http://asarmcenter.asarian-host.net/

extraaccount

06-14-2005, 05:26 AM

10-36,
I would like to point out somethings you said that make me think you are an avid supporter of perverted-justice.com, and that may be why you are sticking up for them.
You wrote:
So let's see....they just got conviction #15. And the ever so anonymous Xavier and a anonymous contributor had to show up in court, in another state, with the trip paid for by the DA.

First, I never said they were in a different state- I dont think anyone has, and that was only posted about on the perverted-justice.com site.

I wish I was so anonymous that a DA would fly me to another state, at thier expense and let me bring some of this scum down.
Once again, the details of them flying out (and pictures of the airport) were only posted on the perverted-justice.com and angrygerman.com (Xavier's homepage) websites. That means one of two things-- one is that you know enough about Xavier to know what his homepage is, or two, you read the perverted-justice.com site avidly enough to find the one specific page and/or thread in the forums where he discusses his trip. What dedication.

15 convictions! By an anonymous group! Some LEO's would like those stats.

Yes, but I can quote a whole bunch of articles where actual LEO's say that perverted-justice.com has ruined some of their legitimate cases, where perverted-justice.com admins are not cooperating with authorities, and where perverted-justice.com tactics are not endorsed by LEOs and are just dangerous. If you wish, I will be happy to compile them for you.

This just in - an arrest in Trenton NJ. The second time the Trenton police have worked with perverted-justice.
Yea, lets hope this one pleads out before it gets to court or else there will be yet another predator roaming the streets. So far, their chat logs have NOT held up in a court of law in front of a judge or jury. It has been pleads of guilty and convictions for other things (such as parole violations for other unrelated charges, threats made to Xavier, child porn found on the computers, etc) but NEVER for the actual chat logs.

Not like it would matter-- they have had at least 1009 "busts" thus far-- that is over one thousand predators-- and only 15 got punished? Hmm.. seems like going to law enforcement with them is the right thing to do. The few that they actually took to law enforcement, the predators were actually dealt with (but how unfortunate for the families of the guys in jail-- I have actual documented proof from the perverted-justice.com forums itself, which prove that while the predators are in jail, those from perverted-justice.com harass via phone and mail the family members and neighbors and bosses of the predators, dishing out their own perverted justice before REAL justice can even take place-- they are actually perverting justice). Real nice of them to harass the wife of a guy in jail-- yes, they must be heros.

And the lawyer that is mentioned above...a real winner that one. Also a poster bot for the pro-pedo group (cj.com) who tried to protect him. Read about him here:

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050518/NEWS01/505180351

Actually I am not pro-pedo and I am from corrupted-justice.com-- and damn proud of it-- somebody has to stand up for rights when anonymous wannabe terrorist thugs harass innocent people (family members of busts, neighbors of busts, bosses and coworkers of busts, etc.) and besides-- isnt it supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not in front of some anonymous wannabe thugs? And doesn't the Bill of Rights allow us to face our accusers? How can that happen when they are some anonymous thugs from around the country who are too cowardly to stand up for what they truly believe in?
Oh and for the record, how do you know if we helped that lawyer? Only someone with access to our hidden forums would know anything about that, and since when our site was hacked from IP numbers that match the static IP numbers of the perverted-justice.com server, that would lead me to believe you know a lot more than what you are letting on.

Yes, people-- someone using the perverted-justice.com IP numbers posed as the owner of corrupted-justice.com, even used his name (identity theft) to send a letter to our server host claiming they need the passwords reset so they could illegally gain access to our servers. The only details of the busted lawyer (and no we were not helping him) were posted in our hidden forums, which along with that illegal entry into our server and forums, our site was also hacked three additional times. Actual hacking-- the FBI in Houston Texas is currently investigating it. So, how would you know about what we did or did not do unless you yourself have had access to our stolen data?

Please answer.

Thanks for reading this.

10-36

06-14-2005, 09:53 AM

I am an avid supporter pf any organization dedicated to removing child predators from circulation. By any means.

they just got conviction #15.

I am corrected - they now have 16.

Once again, the details of them flying out (and pictures of the airport) were only posted on the perverted-justice.com and angrygerman.com (Xavier's homepage) websites. That means one of two things-- one is that you know enough about Xavier to know what his homepage is, or two, you read the perverted-justice.com site avidly enough to find the one specific page and/or thread in the forums where he discusses his trip. What dedication.

I have no idea what you mean with this paragraph. Are you implying that the entire story was made up? That perverted justice conspired with a DA, the courts and the media to score some more points?

I read hundreds of pages on the Internet everyday. I have read most of the perverted justice site and the site of garbage that you refer to. I have also read another site of garbage that you also belong to. (more on that in a moment).

Since you spend such a great deal of time promoting perverted justice and Xavier, any fool with two fingers could do a google and find all the info they needed. Including massive amounts about you, and your past.

So far, their chat logs have NOT held up in a court of law in front of a judge or jury.

Actually you are wrong there. One conviction was based on the transcripts provided by perverted justice. Just the transcripts alone.

threats made to Xavier, child porn found on the computers, etc) but NEVER for the actual chat logs.

On the recent conviction for uttering threats, the perp was also ordered into sexual deviancy counselling because of his chat logs. If the state had a better law then the "travel to meet" then the perp would have faced much stiffer charges. As it was, the DA did an excellent job in getting this hairball into court and charged and registered.

So wrong again.

(but how unfortunate for the families of the guys in jail-- I have actual documented proof from the perverted-justice.com forums itself, which prove that while the predators are in jail, those from perverted-justice.com harass via phone and mail the family members and neighbors and bosses of the predators, dishing out their own perverted justice before REAL justice can even take place-- they are actually perverting justice)

This entire statement is so stupid that it boggles my mind. I would say that if the perp is in jail then real justice has been done. I would say that once arrested then the path to real justice is underway.

As for the contacting of those around the perp, let me tell you, if a perp lived next door to me, then damn right I would want to know. I would thank who ever called, and his friends if they called again. I would watch my childrten much more closely, and watch the scumbag closely also.

How can that happen when they are some anonymous thugs from around the country who are too cowardly to stand up for what they truly believe in?

This seems to be your favorite rant. However, courts do not allow anonymous testimony exept in very special circumstances. Plus the media attention afforded a number of people at perverted justice, not only in the US but in Canada also. Where is the anonymity?

Oh and for the record, how do you know if we helped that lawyer? Only someone with access to our hidden forums would know anything about that,

Because you are not a very bright man. Other then the fact,, you just admitted it, on the other stupid forum you post to, you openly admitted to helping the lawyer. That was about the same time that the article appeared detailing what a danger to children this lawyer was. Expect another conviction.

Yes, people-- someone using the perverted-justice.com IP numbers posed as the owner of corrupted-justice.com, even used his name (identity theft) to send a letter to our server host claiming they need the passwords reset so they could illegally gain access to our servers.

In fact you stoop to stupidity. Do you have any inkling about how hosting companies work? Do you have any idea at all how hard it is to do what you state above? It is in fact impossible. How do I know? It is my job to know such things. Do you have any inkling how stupid the above statement makes you look?

So, how would you know about what we did or did not do unless you yourself have had access to our stolen data?

The information I post is readily available all over the internet. Including news stories.

You are also paranoid it seems. Anytime any one disagrees with you, points out the fallacies of your arguements, or simply posts a reply to you, you start on about hacking and break ins.

It makes no difference. Your agenda is pretty clear. Your dedication to it, may be commendable, but your methology, and the cause are very suspect.

angelsabove911

06-14-2005, 07:20 PM

angelsabove911, I am sorry to hear that you were victimized-- I am a survivor of severe sexual abuse myself (maybe that is why I take harassing preditors instead of locking everyone of the 1000+ perverted-justice.com "busts" up in prison as seriously as I do), but I can tell you that there really IS a place where you can feel safe online and seek support, advice, etc. about the abuse issues. Many years ago (about 8 or 9 years ago now) I used to belong to a Usenet support group that was wonderful, but there were so many perverts who would pose as caring people to get details of abuse-- so they petitioned for and succeeded in creating a moderated group-- and the love, support, advice, guidance, etc. is overwhelmingly positive there. I left their after I had begun to actually heal and grow, but many of those who are far along in abuse recovery still stay to help those new to recovery. There really IS life after abuse. Here is a link in case you want to check it out-- I would have tried to send it privately, but decided that it might be uncomfortable to get emails or private messages from a total stranger, so here is the link and my apologies if this post is off topic.
Link is at:
http://asarmcenter.asarian-host.net/

Thank You ... I have healed alot thro the years but you can never forget and it comes up at times . Like with me getting a letter that he was getting out and only had less then 2 weeks to do what I had to do .Then I get what I needed only to be told other bad news .Some may feel it's not but you put your self in our shoes.He was deported to Canada which was great but little that I knew he goes their with a clean slat... does not have to register with the registery , and he can travel .I understand he did not do anything in Canada but he was not in jail for 15 years for nothing .He convected with DNA .I hope no child comes near him and it just makes me sick to know that the parents or any1 around him will not know until something happens .

{{ I would have tried to send it privately, but decided that it might be uncomfortable to get emails or private messages from a total stranger, so here is the link and my apologies if this post is off topic.}}
Talking about it help me alot it does not bother me because I wasn't the 1 who did anything wrong .Also I don't feel it was off topic .. it fits right in .I feel we need to get a Nation wide registery all this is all the more to fight for 1 . I have tons of links & will be getting involed with United Way .. I'm sure we will get a Petition out their soon . All we can do is fight untill we get it .

Thanks again
angels

extraaccount

06-16-2005, 05:36 PM

angelsabove,
in real life (as opposed to online) these things tend to hit a little too close to home. Predators are everywhere-- there is no way for anyone to deny that fact. There are predators that prey on the vulnerable-- the elderly, the mentally challenged, and the children. Society DOES have to wake up to the fact that it could be anyone-- the bum wandering down the street, or the man in the business suilt living right next to us. Education is the key, and reporting ALL people who commit crimes, or even attempt to commit a crime.

I feel in some ways that the registeries violate certain rights, MOSTLY due to the fact that they are not really as helpful as they SHOULD be. As one case one showed us, a 19 year old man had sex with his 16 year old girlfriend, even though they were dating for three years and engaged to be married when she turns 18, is put on a registry-- so is the man who grabs a child at the mall, forces her into the bathroom and rapes and beats her. both on the same registry. Both with convictions for rape of a child. Is that 19 year old a danger to children? Of course not, but the law, is the law, is the law.. Most of the registeries do NOT differentiate between the rape of a 1 month old child and the consentual sex of a 19 yr old with his 16 yr old fiance. And therefore are, in my opinion, dangerous. If they are going to have public registeries, they should be responsible enough to write them in a way that we know who we have to watch out for. Would I worry about having my daughter around that 19 yr old? Of course not.. But he is branded for life, due to the law.
I worry that by not telling us on the registeries what age the victim was we are branding people for life, when they may not deserve it. I despise all abusers..Please do not think I dont.
But I feel it needs to be better handled, and I think it should be a WORLD WIDE registry in some manner, and this is why:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8007512/
Headline is:
"U.S. sex offender, convicted drug trafficker ran Sri Lanka orphanage"

I feel your pain and please feel free to contact me in email any time if you need to talk or want to discuss anything.

Good luck to you.