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jonb83
09-11-2004, 02:47 AM
A longtime friend of mine is a Mason. I just started college in January to become a cop. He was telling me that a majority of police officers are freemasons and being one can help you get promoted. Is this true and how many police officers are actually freemasons?

Delta784
09-11-2004, 02:57 AM
I'm a Mason, but I don't advertise it.

As a matter of fact, it's probably a detriment for me, with the overwhelming majority of my PD being Irish/Catholic.

If you agree with the principles of Freemasonry, then you should apply. If you don't, then don't apply. Don't base your job prospects on this.

Frank Booth
09-11-2004, 07:19 AM
I'm a Stonecutter.........

Contact
09-11-2004, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by Frank Booth
I'm a Stonecutter.........

Show-off. :p

156
09-11-2004, 09:33 AM
I've known three Freemasons in my life and none of them would answer one single question I've ever had about their group. I find that a bit suspicious. If what the Freemasons do are so great, why all the secrecy? Why is it you have to join to discover what it's all about? Do you buy a car without driving it first? Do you apply to a college without knowing anything about the curriculum?

I can't help but wonder what is it the Freemasons actually do at their lodge meetings? I've looked up some sites on Freemasonry and they were all pretty vague. Most of them just said that if you were of good moral character, a 21+ year old male, and believed in a higher power, you should apply. Are women allowed? Are blacks allowed? I'm guessing the answer to both of those questions is no. I personally am against organizations that are exclusive to one particular race, sex or religion. I know some black people who've applied to the Moose Lodge and their application was tossed in the trash immediately. I was told that by the governor of that particular lodge. He's married to my cousin.

I know the Lions Club is big into collecting old eye glasses and having them refurbished and they also pay for poor people to have their eyes examined and get glasses. A lot of the Moose Lodges have scholarship funds. Do the Freemasons do any sort of public service activities? Do they help anyone outside their walls? I'm really curious about that because I've never seen or heard of anything they do. Everything seems to be done in secret and behind closed doors. It seems a bit cult-like, in my opinion.

Frank Booth
09-11-2004, 10:05 AM
There are plenty of black Masons, and the women have their own little group...the "Stars of Kierkegard" or something like that...The Order of the Eastern Star...that's it....They have their own handshake that is different than the guys' handshake too...


Do the Freemasons do any sort of public service activities? Do they help anyone outside their walls? I'm really curious about that because I've never seen or heard of anything they do.

You've never heard of the "Moslem Shriners" or "Shrine Hospital"??? Never seen those middle aged guys driving go carts or mini-bikes in parades while dressed as old west cavalry guys or clowns? Never seen the Shriner Harley Davidson drill team??? They're all Masons....I'm sure it's all out there on the internet....

156
09-11-2004, 10:45 AM
Frank, I looked up several sites online about the Freemasons and as I said before, most were very vague and I never could get a clear picture of what exactly it is they do. I was under the impression that the Shriners were a separate cult--er, I mean group-and weren't the same as the Freemasons.

I went to a Kazim Shrine Circus (or something like that) once and I was disgusted. The animals looked malnourished and mistreated and the performers all looked way too young to be dressed like that. I can remember a bunch of fiftyish men dressed up like clowns, complete with wigs and makeup, and they were riding tricycles. All the other men were walking around in their hats with their tassles swinging. Secret handshakes, passwords, and weird clothing creeps me out a little.

On the Flintstones when Fred and Barney would put on their hats and head out to their Loyal Order of the Water Buffalos meetings, I always knew they were up to no good. LOL

Delta784
09-11-2004, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by 156
Are women allowed?

No. It's a fraternity, meaning men only.


Originally posted by 156
Are blacks allowed?

Of course.


Originally posted by 156
I know the Lions Club is big into collecting old eye glasses and having them refurbished and they also pay for poor people to have their eyes examined and get glasses. A lot of the Moose Lodges have scholarship funds. Do the Freemasons do any sort of public service activities? Do they help anyone outside their walls?

I actually laughed out loud when I read that. The Lions Club are amateurs compared to the Masons in regards to charity. As a matter of fact, charity is the #1 tenent of Freemasonry.

Have you ever heard of the Shriner's Burns Hospitals? To be a Shriner, you first have to be a Mason in good standing. They provide the best burns treatment in the world, regardless of the ability to pay.

Masonry is also heavily involved in a child identification program known as CHIP, which photographs & fingerprints children in case they're lost or abducted.

This doesn't even count the things my lodge has done on a local level. I've manned a Salvation Army kettle at Christmas, helped put a new roof on a homeless shelter, taken disabled veterans on fishing outings, and many other things.

Worldwide, the Masons spend about $2 million per day on charity. Per day. So, to answer your question.....yes, we Masons do help people outside our "walls".

BigJoe
09-11-2004, 12:28 PM
I'm a Mason and I happen to be black. I'm also a 32nd degree Mason and Shriner. I'm just 27, I love the fraternity and I have yet to reap any benefits from it, probably because I don't advertise I'm a member.

mikeyfatpants0
09-11-2004, 05:49 PM
At my university there is a CJ professor who teaches a course with about 600 students in it. He spends about a month talking about how Masons are a satanic cult who abduct, torture and sacrifice thousands of children a year. He also claims that they are getting into law enforcement and other governmental positions so they can take over the world pretty soon. I'm sure glad that my tution pays his salary.

x5150x
09-11-2004, 07:00 PM
I am proud to be a Mason.

The only secrets we have are our modes of recognition (passwords, handshakes). You would tell me you have a credit card...you might even show it to me...but would you give me your password?

Our lodges are well-marked, our meeting times are advertised openly, our membership often wears or displays symbols showing their affiliation with Masonry.

Most of our presidents were Masons.

Your grandfather or great-grandfather was probably a Mason.

People tend to be frightened by what they don't understand...you will hear many lies and distortions regarding Masonry. Ask a Mason and he will be glad to explain thigs to you. If he is vague it is because he doesn't believe you are serious about learning about the organization or are one of the people who likes to spread falsehoods...why should he waste his time?

If any of you are serious about learing more feel free to PM me or any of the other Masons on this board.
2B1ASK1

Frank Booth
09-11-2004, 07:29 PM
He spends about a month talking about how Masons are a satanic cult who abduct, torture and sacrifice thousands of children a year.

That would be the people who run "The Potter's House".

archer0830
09-11-2004, 09:00 PM
I need to go with 156 on this one. I've been trying to get infomation on Freemasonry and it's not easy to come across. It almost seems as though the only way to get information is from a Mason themselves or after you join. I've been to a few good web pages but they don't give very good information. Just say enough to make you want to learn more. I'm sure I'd have to personally talk to a Mason or join before I'm able to learn more. Isn't that what cults do???

No, I don't understand Freemasonry. What concerns me more is how I can't get any streight up information on it.

Seems fishy.

Bart
09-11-2004, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by jonb83
A longtime friend of mine is a Mason. I just started college in January to become a cop. He was telling me that a majority of police officers are freemasons and being one can help you get promoted. Is this true and how many police officers are actually freemasons?

out of the many officers i know, i only know of 2 who are masons. id have to say your buddy is wrong in his assumption that most cops are masons.

Bart
09-11-2004, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by 156
Are blacks allowed? I'm guessing the answer to both of those questions is no.

blacks are allowed. one of the 2 guys i know are masons happens to be black. the other guy is jewish.

BigJoe
09-11-2004, 10:26 PM
Why should FreeMasons give out the passwords? If you visited several websites and they had wonderful information then you learned something about FreeMasonry that 75% of the world didn't know. If you want straight up info on Masonry then join. Go ask anyone who happens to be a member of a college fraternity you want straight up information on their fraternity and see what they tell ya,lol.

Delta784
09-12-2004, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by x5150x
People tend to be frightened by what they don't understand...you will hear many lies and distortions regarding Masonry. Ask a Mason and he will be glad to explain thigs to you. If he is vague it is because he doesn't believe you are serious about learning about the organization or are one of the people who likes to spread falsehoods...why should he waste his time?

Excellent points.

One of the best things I've seen in regards to Freemasonry is "We're not a secret society, we're a society with secrets". That is so true.

One of the worst things I've seen is allegations that we discriminate. Membership requirements for the Masons are very simple;

1) Male, 21 or older.

2) Good moral character.

3) Believe in one supreme being.

The supreme being can be God, Allah, Jehovah, whatever. My lodge has Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, and Muslim members.

ptcop531
09-12-2004, 03:05 AM
I, too am a 32nd degree Mason. I served as Master of my Lodge last year. The Masons is not a 'secret society'. It is a 'society with secrets'. However, many libraries and book stores have excellent books on the subject. It is said we have secrets, and I guess we do, but, again certain books and websites give them all out.
There is a secret handshake. If you were to see two Masons together, you probably would not see how it is done. It is just one way of acknowledging each other, and recognizing each other. It is an honorable fraternity. Some states recognize black Masons, some do not. The black fraternity of Masons is called Prince Hall Masonry. We in Indiana started 'recognizing' Prince Hall Masons as Masons, but I have yet to had the opportunity to sit with them in my Lodge, or their Lodge. I hope to someday.
I would not say that Masonry has advanced my career. It could have years ago, but I did not use it for that. In the big cities, in the 'old' days it helped advance you, (I have often heard),not really sure if it helps now or not. Only one or two guys with rank on my department are Masons, I do not think it helped advance them, not do I think they would be likely to really 'help' someone advance.

archer0830
09-12-2004, 03:38 PM
A "blindfold", called "hoodwink" is always placed on the candidate, to mean "he is living in spiritual darkness", be it a Christian, or a Jew, heis living "in darkness, helplessness and ignorance. Having been wandering amid the errors and covered over with the pollutions of the outer and profane world"... so, a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim candidate for Mason "is living in spiritual darkness"!... and Christianity or Judaism or Islam are full of errors!... and a "profane world"!...

... And the candidate has to ware the "cable row" around his neck as a sign of slavery, of submission, not Christ nor to the Church, but to the Master Mason and the Lodge... and he will be told and swear that "only the Lodge leads men into spiritual light"... because "he is iniquity coming to our door, seeking the new birth".

- And most initiates to Masonry do all of this without really knowing what they are doing or saying... but it is the first big step to strip a Christian from the "iniquity of Christianity"!.


1- In the First Degree of "Apprentice", he swears, with his hand on the Bible, "I (name), in the presence of Almighty God, most solemnly promise and swear that I will always hail, ever conceal, and never reveal any of the arts, parts of points of the hidden mysteries of Freemasonry... binding myself under the penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out, and my body buried in the rough sands of the see..." (Duncan's Ritual, pp. 34-35).

I know this is all symbolic but again I ask. Why is everything such a secret?

I know this web page is against Freemasonry and actually conciders is a cult but is there any response to this?

The web page has much, much more to say. If you have the time, check it out. But it has quit a bit of information.

http://religion-cults.com/Secret/Freemasonry/freemas2.html

archer0830
09-12-2004, 03:43 PM
Oh and by the way. The only way I could get this much information about Freemasonry was to get it off of a page that conciders it a cult! I just don't understand why Freemasons feel the need to keep everything a secret.

PeteBroccolo
09-12-2004, 04:25 PM
This may seem a little odd, but here comes a cradle-Catholic and 18-year 3rd-Degree member of the Knights of Columbus to help support the Masons and Shriners on this forum.

One of my uncles was a Shriner, I have worked with several members of the RCMP that were, or still are, either Masons or gone on to the Shriners, and know many other Municipal PS members and fine upstanding civilian members of various communities who are either Masons or Shriners.

The Masons are a fraternal organization, similar to the Knights of Columbus. I know that many of their wives are members of the Order of the Eastern Star. Some friends of mine were in Demolay (sorry if I spelled that wrong), which is for the children of Masons/Eastern Star.

There are, unfortunately, drunken, promiscuous Masons and Shriners, as there are, further unfortunately, men similarly lacking in their morals in the K of C. However, for the most part, Masons and Shriners are fine, upstanding members of the community who care deeply for their fellow man, and work hard to help those in need.

I would no sooner talk about the "secret" works of the K of C with someone whom I do not know to be a Brother Knight in good standing, than I would expect a Mason or Shriner to share such information with someone whom is not of their order and standing.

That does not mean, however, that there are not some friendly rivalries between our Orders. Nothing like a dart or bowling tournament to bring out the hot air!

archer0830
09-12-2004, 04:42 PM
However, for the most part, Masons and Shriners are fine, upstanding members of the community who care deeply for their fellow man, and work hard to help those in need.
I don't want to come off like I'm making personal attacks at individual members. I am questioning the group as a whole. For example, most presidents and famous people that were Freemasons were honerary Freemasons and never attended one meeting.

Also:


They claim about $300 millions a year to hospitals and other institutions, which is good but not that much, considering that if every Mason contributes just $5 per week, they can collect $1,300 millions per year. In 1985, "Circuses" of the Shriners generated $23 million, and only 2% went to medical care of children. In 1984, out of $17 million only 1% went to charity, the rest for the Order! (Orlando Sentinel, June 29, 1986).

The group as a whole just seems very deceitful.

156
09-12-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by archer0830
I just don't understand why Freemasons feel the need to keep everything a secret.

Me either. Even though there have been claims here how it's an honorable (albeit admittedly surreptitious organization), I have a hard time believing it's 100% on the up and up when there has to be secret passwords, secret handshakes and everyone is loath to reveal anything that goes on at a meeting. Not to mention that women have to be in a separate entity and blacks aren't allowed in (in some states). Are we still living in the 1960s?

Delta784
09-13-2004, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by archer0830
But it has quit a bit of information.

It also has quite a bit of bull****.

What I don't understand is why you care if there are secret handshakes, code words, etc. Do you show the same concern for college fraternities or the Knights of Columbus?

It's obvious that you've already made up your mind, and apparently have some axe to grind with Freemasonry, so I'm not going to bother responding anymore.

archer0830
09-13-2004, 01:40 AM
No I don't worry about Frats. They clearly state what they are all about. Freemasonry doesn't.

Don't mean to start a big arguement over it and like I said, I'm not trying to attack you or anybody else personally. Just curious. So far what I've found is negative and now you don't want to talk about it. Interesting.

Delta784
09-13-2004, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by archer0830
So far what I've found is negative and now you don't want to talk about it. Interesting.

It's also interesting that you have completely ignored all the positive things about Freemasonry that I and others have posted.

I'll discuss Freemasonry all day, but only with someone who actually has an open mind. You haven't come close to displaying that.

archer0830
09-13-2004, 01:54 AM
I do have an open mind, don't get me wrong. Is there any good web page you can refer me too? I'd be more then happy to visit it.

Delta784
09-13-2004, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by archer0830
I do have an open mind, don't get me wrong. Is there any good web page you can refer me too?

The first Grand Lodge in the United States;

http://www.glmasons-mass.org/

A bit of the charity work that Masons do;

http://www.shrinershq.org/hospitals/burninst/

archer0830
09-13-2004, 02:11 AM
Alrighty I'll check those out.

ptcop531
09-13-2004, 04:09 AM
Archer, I hope those websites answer your questions about Freemasonry.
It is an honorable Fraternity. In Indiana, the Grand Lodge, (the governing body of Indiana Freemasonry) is doing a few things that I have a problem with concerning membership, but I am proud to be a Freemason, and the son of a Freemason, none the less.
In my 21 years of membership, I have never heard of devil worshipping in Lodge. It disappoints me that such things are said about Freemasonry. Freemasons are not perfect people. Like cops, they come from the human population, and humans do have flaws, so Freemasons, like cops, are not perfect.:eek:

x5150x
09-13-2004, 09:54 AM
I find it interesting that only 1 poster from this thread has contacted me via PM to take me up on my offer to ask me, a Mason, their questions.

That might make one question the true motives of archer and the like...

156
09-13-2004, 11:31 AM
First of all, I have no "motives." What you said is nothing more than typical cop-speak (i.e., trying to coerce someone into "admitting" something when they've done absolutely nothing wrong).

Secondly, I asked several questions here on the board; some of which were answered and others completely ignored. Are questions about Freemasons only answered in private now, not publicly? Again with the secrets!

x5150x
09-13-2004, 01:52 PM
156...okay, post your questions and I'll (and I'm sure my other brothers) will answer each and every one of them right here, in public.

Go.

archer0830
09-13-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by x5150x
156...okay, post your questions and I'll (and I'm sure my other brothers) will answer each and every one of them right here, in public.

Go.

May I take you up on that offer?

-Please explain to me what your "society" is all about. I understand Freemasons do a lot of charity work, which is outstanding. I also do charity work and am very proud of what I have done. You should be too. Is this simply a group of guys that like to get together and chit chat on the side? Is it just like, as you say, a fraternity?

-Explain to me the different degrees and how you achieve them. What do they mean?

-Why are many famous people labled as a Freemason when they have never been to one meeting. What does it mean to be an "honerary Freemason." How does one achieve that status?

-Why is it that nearly all Christian dominations are against Freemasonry?

EXAMPLES:
---------------

-- Catholics:
Freemasons have been excommunicated from the Catholic Church by 8 Popes: In 1738 by Clement XII "In Eminenti", the first of 20 bulls against Freemasonry. Pius IX issued 6 bulls attacking Masonry. Leo XIII, in 1884, in "Humanum Genus", and endorsed the view that the Freemasons' "real supreme aim" is "to persecute Christianity with untamed hatred, and they will never rest until they see cast to the ground all religious institutions established by the Pope"... and the last one, John Paul II in 1983... you can not be a Catholic and a Mason!
If you want to be a Mason, you are automatically out of the Catholic Church, excommunicated!... these are the words issued by Cardinal Ratzinger, approved and ordered by John Paul II in Nov. 1983: "The Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. Catholics who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. Local Ecclesiastical authorities do not have the faculty to pronounce a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which may include a diminution of the above-mentioned judgment".


- Baptist leaders, have referred to it as "an ungodly brotherhood of satanic darkness"; "there is an inherent incompatibility between Masonry and the Christian faith"; "there is a great danger that the Christian Mason may find himself compromising his allegiance to Jesus" (The Baptist Union of Scotland, 1965).

- Lutherans, say "Masonry amounts to idolatry" (Missouri Synod, 1959).

- Presbyterians: "Masonry is a religious institution and as such is definitely anti-Christian (General Assembly, Rochester, 1942).

- The Church of England: "A number of very fundamental reasons to question the compatibility of Freemasonry with Christianity (General Synod, London, 1987... and several members of the committee were Masons).

- Russian Orthodox Church: "Any Orthodox who joins Masonry losses all the right and privileges of his membership in the Church (Acker, "Strange Altars", pag.60).

- Methodists: "There is a great danger that the Christian who becomes a Freemason will find himself comprising his Christian beliefs. Methodists should not become Masons (General Assembly, London, 1985).

---------------

-If charity is the main cause of Freemasonry, then why does, in most cases, only 1-10% of all income from Circuses, which were established for charitable causes, go to charity? Freemasonry claims $300 million dollars in charity per year. That is not a bad thing. That is great. But this does not even scrape the surface of the amount of money coming in. If charity is not the main cause, then what is?

And finally,

-What exactly goes on at your meetings?

Now before you get all defensive, let me explain my "motives". When this thread first started, I was very interested in what Freemasonry was all about. I knew next to nothing about it and thought it might be something worth joining. However, I could not find much information on the web and could not get any information from Freemasons on this board. Finally, I began to come across some pages that explained how the society works. The only problem is the pages didn't have good things to say. When I found information which raised some red flags and questioned it, nobody wanted to respond to me anymore. These are the questions I have come up with and if there are reasonable answers to them, it might still be something I'll look into. However, I have a feeling this will be brushed aside and my questions will go unanswered. And again, I am not trying to make personal attacks. If I come across that way, I apologize right now.

I have no gripe with Freemasons. They have done nothing to me and I respect the cherity aspect of what they have done. I'm not saying Freemasonry is bad. I've just found some information thats a bit confusing and makes Freemasonry look bad. If it can be explained, that would be wonderful.

Mike

Pedalin'Cop
09-13-2004, 05:22 PM
To become one....ask one.

Yxboom
09-13-2004, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Posted by archer0830
I have a feeling this will be brushed aside and my questions will go unanswered. Mike, keep reading. :)

Quote:
Posted by archer0830
-Please explain to me what your "society" is all about. Freemasonry is a fraternity that makes good men better. Convicted felons are not allowed to join. Candidates must be of good moral character - upstanding pillars of the community.

Quote:
Posted by archer0830
I understand Freemasons do a lot of charity work, which is outstanding. I also do charity work and am very proud of what I have done. You should be too. Is this simply a group of guys that like to get together and chit chat on the side? Is it just like, as you say, a fraternity?The goal of Freemasonry is simply to make good men better. Since it's a fraternity, yes, a bond of brotherhood develops. And regarding the charity -- it's all about the kids!!!

Quote:
Posted by archer0830
-Explain to me the different degrees and how you achieve them. What do they mean?Each degree is about personal enrichment and helps to educate the Mason about issues such as morality, trustworthiness, honor, duty and other noble attributes of honest men.

Quote:
Posted by archer0830
-Why are many famous people labled as a Freemason when they have never been to one meeting. There is a lot of mininformation floating around on the internet. For example, if you type the word "UFO" into the search engine at google.com, you will be brought to hundreds of crackpot websites that have more in common with science fiction than reality. Welcome to the world of the internet, where the reader must be very careful what he chooses to believe!!!

Quote:
Posted by archer0830
What does it mean to be an "honerary Freemason." How does one achieve that status?Universities often bestow "honorary doctorates" on distinguished individuals within the community, which is to recoginize them for their honorable contributions to mankind or to their community or to a cause. An honorary degree in Freemasonry is no different.

Quote:
Posted by archer0830
-Why is it that nearly all Christian dominations are against Freemasonry?That is simply not true. Did you read that on the internet? LOL

Quote:
Posted by archer0830
If you want to be a Mason, you are automatically out of the Catholic Church, excommunicated!That is simply not true. I have a personal friend who is a Mason, as well as a faithful Catholic who attends mass every Sunday. He is also an usher at his church. ;)

Quote:
Posted by archer0830
- Baptist leaders, have referred to it as "an ungodly brotherhood of satanic darkness"; "there is an inherent incompatibility between Masonry and the Christian faith"; Ah, more internet reading. LOL

Quote:
Posted by archer0830
-If charity is the main cause of Freemasonry, then why does, in most cases, only 1-10% of all income from Circuses, which were established for charitable causes, go to charity? Who told you this lie? I'll bet that you can't give the name of an accountant who made any such statement. It's just another example of crazy UFO stories that can be read on the internet. But people will believe whatever they want. < shrugs shoulders >

Quote:
Posted by archer0830
-What exactly goes on at your meetings?Good men are made better, with each and every fraternal meeting. :)

Quote:
Posted by archer0830
Now before you get all defensive, let me explain my "motives". When this thread first started, I was very interested in what Freemasonry was all about. I knew next to nothing about it and thought it might be something worth joining. Here is a website where you can ask Masons more questions:

TheLodgeRoom.com (http://www.thelodgeroom.com/forum/)

x5150x
09-13-2004, 06:44 PM
I think YXBOOM answered your questions as well as I could.

By the way...I am a Catholic...so was/is every Mason in my family!

In fact, if you do a little research, a certain Pope was a Mason.

nickg
09-14-2004, 02:15 PM
as groucho marx once said "i refuse to join any club that would have me as a member!!"

Bodie
09-14-2004, 08:02 PM
Extensive responses here.
My dad is a Shriner and past president of th shrine club in his home county. They do a lot iof good inc the Shriners Burn Hospital in Cincinnati for badly burnt kids.
All treatment can be free if a family has no insurance and can't ever pay.
There is a shrine Provost Unit that is police officers and is full of high ranking leo officials from all over Ohio.

As a teen I was in DeMolay the youth group for young men. I was later on my I think 24th birthday given a petition signed by a judge and two high ranking Masons so I coudl join. But we moved and I never did join.

Most high ranking State patrol officers here are masons if not shriners as are many sheriffs and police chiefs as well a local fed such as FBI.

A Worthy Organization

retdetsgt
09-14-2004, 08:24 PM
I'm kinda like nickg, I never had a desire to join any organization. Well, actually I did join a local Elks Lodge once because they had a pretty good gym and the monthly dues were cheaper than gym fees. I never went to a lodge meeting, drank in the bar or even ate there. I quit when I found a better gym for a decent fee.

My Dad wasn't in the Masons, but he was in the Lions Club and they did a lot of charity work, but mostly they just got together. I never cared that much for male bonding and companionship, I guess.

My wife's uncle is a muckymuck in the state Shriners and their hospital does do a lot of good work. I can't speak for the % of money that they collect that actually goes there, I don't care. But they actively look for kids they can help. That to me is a pretty good deal.

The only thing that bothered me was when my ex wife put my daughters into some kind of Eastern Star?!? or something like that. They had some sort of pageant where the 11 year old girls dressed up like little adults and paraded them around. I was invited to the deal and got real uncomfortable with some of the comments there by the men about how "beautiful" these little girls looked. I told my ex that this was it, no more Eastern Star crap and she pulled them out. Her relatives were masons and got them into it. I talked to my daughter later (she's now 33) and she told me she was uncomfortable with it too and glad I put a stop to it.

ptcop531
09-15-2004, 06:03 AM
Just a few notes:
Order of Eastern Star is for both Masons and women.
Order of DeMolay is for young men 13 to 21
Order of Rainbow Girls for girls 13 to 21
Order of Job's Daughters is for girls 13 to 21
There are a few other groups as well for Masons and women.
All are worthwhile organizations. No funny stuff allowed.
To be a Shriner, you must be a Mason first.:)

jonb83
09-16-2004, 03:08 PM
Man, take a look at this ruckus that I caused. All that I really asked was that how many of the police officers are Masons and would it help me get promoted or hired. I'm planning on calling up my buddy who wants me to join on his word. Chances are that I'm joing because quite frankly, how can it hurt? It can only help and build my resume.

archer0830
09-16-2004, 03:20 PM
Yeah jonb83! You come on our board to start arguements?!?!? :D :D :D

Well good luck with whatever you decide. I've decided to just let this go. I've stirred up enough as it is. :p

ptcop531
09-17-2004, 02:10 AM
Actually, you should be careful about putting membership in Freemasonry on a resume'. As this thread proves, there are different opinions and misunderstandings about what Freemasonry is about.

SCConstable2004
09-17-2004, 09:39 AM
Several of you have stated that many of the Masons you know won't tell you much. Unfortunately it is because most masons are not active enough to know what they can and cannot tell you. The reality is that they can tell you a whole lot but they don't know much because of their inactivity and ignorance.

As for the secrecy, just answer a few questions for me:

1. How often do you and your wife/girlfried have err... relations?
2. How much money do you make?
3. What is your Social Security Number?
4. How about a credit card number?
5. What is you mother's Maiden name?
6. Address?
7. Why doesn't your department dispatch over the local FM radio station?

The simple answer is that all of the above are none of my business? What? You have secrets? But it is no secret that you have a probaly had err... relations, you have an income, you have a SSN (if you're legal), probably have credit card, most likely were born of a woman somewhere, you live somewhere, and your department does dispatch. Since I am not you or a member of your department, I have no need to know. Fear often comes from ignorance. If you want good information find a knowledgable active Mason, preferably a past or present officer and he will likely tell you more than you think.

nickg
09-17-2004, 10:49 AM
[i]Originally posted by SCConstable2004


As for the secrecy, just answer a few questions for me:

1. How often do you and your wife/girlfried have err... relations?
2. How much money do you make?
3. What is your Social Security Number?
4. How about a credit card number?
5. What is you mother's Maiden name?
6. Address?
7. Why doesn't your department dispatch over the local FM radio station?



1. 11
2. i'm filthy rich and independently wealthy. i just work because i like the comaraderie.
3. 666-66-6666
4. 6666-6060-6969-0000
5. Goose
6. Hell
7. because they don't play classic rock at dispatch

156
09-17-2004, 04:22 PM
SCConstable2004, I get what you're trying to say, however I find your logic a bit skewed. You're comparing apples to oranges.

I've asked multiple questions here concerning Freemasons and all I've gotten are indistinct, ambiguous responses about how they're a group of good men trying to become better men. Sorry, that's not an answer. Everyone keeps inviting questions, yet every single response is veiled in secrecy.

How would you all like it if you were questioning me for an alleged crime and when I was asked where I was on a certain date at a certain time I replied with, "I was being charitable and making myself a better person" and refused to elaborate? If you pressed me for further information and I told you that you'd clearly read some misinformation about me on the internet and it wasn't true, yet had nothing concrete to offer you to the contrary, would you just accept that? Would I be released? I don't think so.

If Freemasons insist on their secrecy, passwords, special handshakes and other covert practices that's fine and you have a right to do so. Just don't pretend to be an open book about the organization when you're obviously not.

Yxboom
09-17-2004, 05:24 PM
Yes, we are sworn not to divulge certain Masonic practices; that is a pre-condition to join. Should we break our oath, simply because you're accusing us of being secretative? I'm more interested in knowing why you're so curious. :D

Masonry is veeeeeeeeeeery old. How much do you think Masonry has changed since President George Washington joined the Craft? :)

archer0830
09-17-2004, 05:47 PM
TRYING TO....KEEP MY.....MOUTH SHUT!!! :p

I said I'd stop stirring stuff up and I guess I'll stick to that. It's so hard not getting the last word in. :D

Yxboom
09-17-2004, 05:55 PM
I admit that I didn't answer every question because that would require a lot of writing. I'll answer a hard question that was asked -- "What does each degree stand for?"

Here ya go!!![list]1

kirch
09-17-2004, 05:58 PM
I've tried to stay out of this discussion because I know almost nothing about Freemasonry and don't like commenting on topics I have little to no knowledge of. I have been asked to join but have chosen not to because I do not meet one of their criterium.

However, since the Masons themselves are responsible for the informational black hole, I don't feel too bad about basing my opinions on what little information there is out there. Personally, I feel that a group that encourages a bunch of grown men to use secret handshakes, passwords et al is a bit silly.

archer0830
09-17-2004, 06:43 PM
As you can see, moral principles are inculcated into each degree.
But....but....but......ok mike, calm down and keep your mouth shut. ;) ;)

Yxboom
09-17-2004, 07:03 PM
Conspiracy theories?Quote:
Posted by archer0830
But.... but.... but...... ok mike, calm down and keep your mouth shut. ;) ;) The secrets about UFOs and aliens must be kept secret!!! ;) ;)

archer0830
09-17-2004, 07:13 PM
Hardy hardy har har :p

156
09-17-2004, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Yxboom
I'm more interested in knowing why you're so curious. :D

I'll tell you my secrets if you'll tell me yours. ;)

By the way, thanks for posting all the degrees. I can't begin to describe to you how interesting I found that to be. Seriously! I appreciate it.

BrickCop
09-18-2004, 02:25 PM
I know practically nothing about Freemasonary but I remember my church going Catholic mother recoil in horror when I mentioned that a (freemason)co- worker suggested I join.

She never elaborated on why she felt that way.

What is the cause/origin of the Catholic distrust/disdain of the freemasons? I realize this negativity may be baseless but why out of all of the noble organizations is this the one singled out (by Catholics)?

I don't get it. :confused:

retdetsgt
09-18-2004, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by BRICKCOP
What is the cause/origin of the Catholic distrust/disdain of the freemasons? I realize this negativity may be baseless but why out of all of the noble organizations is this the one singled out (by Catholics)?

I don't get it. :confused:

I dunno either. My father in law, who's an Irish Catholic hates Masons. He's a retired plumber and he swears that those in the union conspired to make sure that Masons always got the foremen jobs, etc. He still rants about how the Catholic, non Masons always got the dirtiest jobs on construction sites. And plumbers can have some pretty dirty jobs! I'm not saying this for the truth of the matter, only what he has said many times. He certainly believes it and he was a union plumber for 40 years.

x5150x
09-18-2004, 07:51 PM
I come from a long line of Catholic Masons...I think the problem comes from a certain Pope who was extremely anti-Mason...but, there was a Pope or two before him that were Masons. I apologize for not having the names handy...maybe someone could look them up?

Delta784
09-19-2004, 01:47 AM
The Catholic Church's opposition to Freemasonry is rooted in the same reasons why many ordinary citizens distrust/fear the fraternity.

Ignorance.

I'm willing to bet good money that if you asked any high-ranking person in a Catholic Archdiocese why the Catholic Church opposes Freemasonry, they either won't have an answer, or the answer will be the same old tired lies about Masons worshipping Satan, etc.

There are a quite a few Catholic members of my Lodge.

156
09-19-2004, 09:19 AM
Delta, of course we're ignorant about Freemasonry. That's because no one will tell us anything! I have repeatedly asked Freemasons (both in person and here on this board) various questions and I get the same thing over and over -- nothing. I'm left to draw my own conclusions.

Yxboom
09-19-2004, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Posted by 156
Of course we're ignorant about Freemasonry. That's because no one will tell us anything! I have repeatedly asked Freemasons here on this board various questions and I get the same thing over and over -- nothing. I'm left to draw my own conclusions. Are you telling us that my answers-to-questions here in this thread are not real answers? For you to say that "no" questions have been answered in this thread is simply not true and is a bold faced lie. I am now left to question your motivation in telling a lie. This will be my last responce to you. Good bye.

Go back and re-read this thread and you'll see the answers that I posted.

156
09-19-2004, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Yxboom
I am now left to question your motivation in telling a lie.

When I read that, I said to myself, "He's got to be a detective!" I checked your profile and I was right.

There has been so much discussion on this thread that I've forgotten every question I've asked, but there are still a few that remain unanswered.

1. Why are blacks and women made separate? Why must they have their own entity? That seems a bit discriminatory to me.

2. Why the need for passwords and secret handshakes? Aren't Freemasons mere mortals like the rest of us? Why be so furtive?

3. Besides "making good men better," what exactly goes on at a lodge meeting?


Since you're no longer going to respond to me, I'm not expecting a reply. I just wanted to show you that while you did provide information on the various degrees, there were several aspects of Freemasonry you (and others) avoided.

Valor55
09-19-2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by x5150x
I come from a long line of Catholic Masons...I think the problem comes from a certain Pope who was extremely anti-Mason...but, there was a Pope or two before him that were Masons. I apologize for not having the names handy...maybe someone could look them up?

As far as I can tell any prejudice against Masonry is prudential and not doctrinal. This means that faithful Catholics are free to disagree with the Church. Membership is not necessarily sinfull and faithful Catholics are free to join and participate.

I don't know what the big deal is with Masonry. It's a fraternal service oriented organization. Secrecy in its ceremonies fosters a common bond that is special and not shared by others. If they were doing anything outright evil I doubt they would really be able to keep it secret and you'd see lots of former members "outting" the organization (instead of conspiracy theorists who have no first hand knowledge).

College fraternities have their own initiations that foster that brotherhood and common bond.

Law enforcement also has some similarities. Although our "initiation" isn't secret we all benefit from the common brotherhood of our profession. At the very least we require graduation from an accredited academy and often one must prove themselves worthy through baptism of our rookie year.

Some people are looking for that fraternal bond and do so through private clubs like the Masons where they can also participate in service programs that help their communities.

Yxboom
09-19-2004, 04:23 PM
Quote:
Posted by 156
There has been so much discussion on this thread that I've forgotten every question I've asked, but there are still a few that remain unanswered.
1. Why are blacks and women made separate? Why must they have their own entity? That seems a bit discriminatory to me.
2. Why the need for passwords and secret handshakes? Aren't Freemasons mere mortals like the rest of us? Why be so furtive?
3. Besides "making good men better," what exactly goes on at a lodge meeting?
Since you're no longer going to respond to me, I'm not expecting a reply. I just wanted to show you that while you did provide information on the various degrees, there were several aspects of Freemasonry you (and others) avoided. Okay, fair enough. Here are more answers that are provided by Stephen Dafoe:Quote:
Posted by 156
1. Why are blacks made separate? Why must they have their own entity? That seems a bit discriminatory to me. Blacks are permitted in our lodges. you are confusing the fact that there is Prince Hall Masonry, which is a separate Masonic organization. It was established in a time when racial equality was virtually non-existent. I would suspect that during those days, Blacks were not permitted to be law enforcement officers either. Recognition issues between conventional lodges and Prince Hall lodges very from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and it is an issue greatly debated among Masons today. Quote:
Posted by 156
1. Why are women made separate? Why must they have their own entity? That seems a bit discriminatory to me.
With respect to women, Freemasonry is a fraternal order. We can no more expect to admit women than we can expect a sorority to admit men. Ths being said, orders such as The Order of the Eastern Star are an integral part of the Masonic family and the chapters and lodges often meet in the same buildings and work well together on various projects. Quote:
Posted by 156
2. Why the need for passwords and secret handshakes? Aren't Freemasons mere mortals like the rest of us? Why be so furtive? I note with interest that this forum has or had a number of areas for members of law enforcement only. Much of Freemasonry is about tradition. Each of our passwords and pass grips have a lesson behind them and are a continuation of a long standing tradition. All trades have lingo and traditions unique to the industry that are virtually incomprehensible to those outside the group. Quote:
Posted by 156
3. Besides "making good men better," what exactly goes on at a lodge meeting? Well like any other group, we vote on matters of business, we discuss charitable projects being conducted by our various lodges, we educate ourselves on philosophical matters and share a common meal of fellowship.

If you would like to know more about Freemasonry and what it is all about visit:

www.thelodgeroom.com/what2.html

156
09-19-2004, 08:34 PM
Yxboom, thank you. I really wasn't trying to be difficult; I only wanted simple answers to simple questions. Thank you for providing them for me. I'm satisfied now and will be quiet. :)

I'll check out the link as well.

Delta784
09-19-2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Yxboom
Recognition issues between conventional lodges and Prince Hall lodges very from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and it is an issue greatly debated among Masons today.

I'll mention here that the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts (the oldest grand lodge in the US) recognizes the Prince Hall lodges.

Yxboom
09-19-2004, 08:44 PM
156,

That's cool. :)

Trixie
10-02-2004, 10:45 AM
I have heard that during meetings Masons wear aprons. Is that true and if so what is the symbolism/purpose behind it?

Thanks.

Delta784
10-02-2004, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Trixie
I have heard that during meetings Masons wear aprons. Is that true and if so what is the symbolism/purpose behind it?

That's true. It represents the origins of Freemasonry, which started with actual Masons (those who work with stone), who wear aprons to this day.

Cougarman
10-02-2004, 11:15 AM
The reason for the apron being worn by the operative masons of the past was to protect their clothing. The nature of the work was such that their clothing was in danger of being scraped, rubbed, and cut by tools, stones, and other rough surfaces. It is commonly known as the "badge" of a modern speculative Freemason and is worn as a symbol of the dignity of work.

SaNdMaN
10-02-2004, 03:09 PM
Uhhh yeah...Not to sound like an *** here, but how come I was able to research quite a bit about the Masons on my own and those starting this thread couldn't?

I'm not a Mason, I most likely will never join, but why crack on the guys because they have secret handshakes and "rituals?" If the organization makes the members feel that they are becoming better men for it, I have no problem with it. I don't seem to be contacting groups of rouge, violent masons on a nightly basis and have yet to see the shriners pull a drive-by in one of their little cars.

Quite honestly, and I may be wrong on this and if I am then a mason can correct me (if they are allowed to), but the masons can trace their organization back to the Knights Templar. Now, if I was in any way associated with the Knight Templar, and knowing what happened to them, then I'd be pretty secretive myself.

As far as listing the posts of all the organized religions crying out against the masons, that's about as ironic as it gets. Next time you want to ask a catholic about the masons go to Northern Ireland. Then ask them about the Protestants. If you want to ask a jew then go to Israel and then ask about the Muslim (Arab). Quite frankly, and in my somewhat warped opinion, organized religion is about the most divisive force in the world today. (And no, I'm not a satanist or atheist).

Ziggs
10-02-2004, 09:16 PM
I find all of this quite comical only because I am a pledge for a fraternity this semester at UW. People understand that there are secretive things about college fraternities but no one calls them cults. No ever has expected to get into a frat if you are a female yet someone expects to with the masons? It seems people are intentionally trying to think of the masons as some fishy, cult-like organization without finding out the facts first.

Cougarman
10-02-2004, 09:17 PM
I'm not a Mason, I most likely will never join, but why crack on the guys because they have secret handshakes and "rituals?"A lot of people are convinced that such secrecy is a danger to them, but what most people don't understand is that it's all available to the public through various venues. What I find interesting is that there are literally hundreds of fraternal organizations with "secret handshakes" and "passwords" but because Freemasonry is the largest (approximately six million strong) it serves as a bigger target for people who want to throw rocks at it.


If the organization makes the members feel that they are becoming better men for it, I have no problem with it. I don't seem to be contacting groups of rouge, violent masons on a nightly basis and have yet to see the shriners pull a drive-by in one of their little cars.The policy of silence by Freemasonry has allowed a lot of conspiracy theories to be floated without challenge and some of them are accepted as truths amongst the conspiracy theorist underground. You know if the masons are ruling the world (I'm a mason, btw) then why can't I get a better job or get the winning numbers to the powerball drawing?


Quite honestly, and I may be wrong on this and if I am then a mason can correct me (if they are allowed to), but the masons can trace their organization back to the Knights Templar. That is a popular theory and I'm torn between that one and the theory that our roots are traced back to the guilds of operative stonemasons. There are a number of more obscure theories, but in truth, no one knows for sure and it's a subject of debate in the circles who care enough to debate about it.


Now, if I was in any way associated with the Knight Templar, and knowing what happened to them, then I'd be pretty secretive myself.The Roman Catholic Church opened some archives that exhonerated the Knights Templar of any wrong doing. It wasn't a really big story, but I attribute that to the fact that not many people have heard of the KT except in perhaps a casual passing reference.


As far as listing the posts of all the organized religions crying out against the masons, that's about as ironic as it gets.That arises in from the fact that Freemasonry requires the brother to believe in a supreme being, without specifying which one. Many people who are intolerant of other religions, are also intolerant of the fact that Freemasonry ISN'T intolerant of other religions.

south
10-03-2004, 01:54 AM
This thread rocks. I've asked many of these questions myself.:)

SaNdMaN
10-03-2004, 02:38 PM
That is a popular theory and I'm torn between that one and the theory that our roots are traced back to the guilds of operative stonemasons. There are a number of more obscure theories, but in truth, no one knows for sure and it's a subject of debate in the circles who care enough to debate about it.

I'm no expert by any means but I do see the logic in the theory. I think the masons already existed but that the surviving Teplars joined up with them on the sly. DeMolay was the founder or leader of the KT at one point, wasn't he?


The Roman Catholic Church opened some archives that exhonerated the Knights Templar of any wrong doing.

I would say that falls firmly in the "Ain't that a bitch" catagory. They shoulda done that before they killed them off.:p

Cougarman
10-03-2004, 04:03 PM
Jacques DeMolay was named the Grand Master of the Knights Templar in 1298.

I'm presently trying to dig up the specifications about how the KT was absolved of the various accusations lodged against them. If I recall correctly, it was the Pope who issued a statement following the disclosure of some documents that were stored in an archive. Anyway, I'll post what I find.

The reason for their persecution lies in King Philip wanting their wealth, and by getting Pope Clement to condemn the Templars, he was able to seize that wealth.

Sgt. Friday
10-03-2004, 08:33 PM
The Clowns, they scare me. I have nightmares, and the midget Clowns are just pure evil:eek:

How do they get so many Clowns in such little cars, I bet thats one of those secerts they won't tell us:D

SaNdMaN
10-03-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Cougarman
The reason for their persecution lies in King Philip wanting their wealth, and by getting Pope Clement to condemn the Templars, he was able to seize that wealth.

From what I've researched, again no expert and it was some time ago, Phillip didn't get very much of their wealth, or their lands. There was also alot of speculation about why so many in the organization allowed themselves to be sacrificed without any resistance so that a small group could flee. The most intriguing story I found was that the KT had(have) in their possession the Holy Grail, and that is why so many gave up, to cause a diversion to ensure its safe passage. Maybe not true, but definitely sparks the imagination.

I am one of those guys who disdains organized religion and fanaticism, but I definitely respect the honor of the KT, and no one can argue with the accomplishments of the group. To forgoe everything, and to completely devote onself to the service of others while expecting nothing in return, is definitely an admirable trait. I guess that is why I lean toward the KT version of the mason origin. It has the most heart and many of the traits I'm familiar with in the masons seem to be derivitave of the KT.


How do they get so many Clowns in such little cars, I bet thats one of those secerts they won't tell us

I think you have your clowns twisted Friday. B&B has the midget clowns and cars packed full of clowns. The shriners have the big dudes and little cars (which, of course, is no less unnerving):D

Deputy757
10-04-2004, 12:25 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yxboom
[B]
29

Cougarman
10-04-2004, 01:07 AM
How do they get so many Clowns in such little cars, I bet thats one of those secerts they won't tell usActually that particular secret was originally P.T. Barnum's but I'm not sure who owns the rights to it today :D


That arises in from the fact that Freemasonry requires the brother to believe in a supreme being, without specifying which one. Many people who are intolerant of other religions, are also intolerant of the fact that Freemasonry ISN'T intolerant of other religions.

Again, a Christian simply can't believe in a generalized supreme being. Freemasonry doesn't instruct the Christian to believe in a generalized supreme being, it teaches the brother to believe in whatever God he serves. Perhaps I should have articulated my original statement differently, as my statement was simply that Freemasonry requires you to believe in a supreme being, but does not instruct you in which one to believe nor how to serve. It is left to the brother to serve the god of his understanding in a way which his religion teaches.


Once you profess that there are possibly other gods besides God then you have forsaken your faith as a Christian.Freemasonry doesn't require that you concede the existance of any other Gods besides the one you serve.


And holding to your belief in only one God, the God of the Bible, and Christ is not being intolerant of other religions.Thats the whole point, each brother is free to believe as he believes, and is taught to find his answers in the doctrine specified by his beliefs.


People are perfectly free to believe what they want and I think it's great that people believe in something. But you can't promulgate both ideas without creating a conflict.There is no conflict, in fact, Freemasonry is designed to prevent conflict by precluding the discussion of religion in lodge, since such discussion often turns into an argument over who God is, which is divisive.

SaNdMaN
10-04-2004, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by Deputy757
But you can't promulgate both ideas without creating a conflict.

No, that is exactly why Christians, and all other organized religions, have a problem with masons. There is no flexibility within organized religion. And, in the example of the off-shoots of Christianity, there are even bigger fallacies.

I don't want to turn this thread into a religion discussion, just saying that if the religions of the world were more respectful of the beliefs of ALL of the people of the world, there would be a hell of a lot less problems...

Cougarman
10-04-2004, 02:59 AM
Here is an excerpt of a recently discovered letter that speaks to a secret exoneration of the KT.

http://www.letterneversent.com/index.php/archives/2002/03/31/pope-secretly-pardoned-templars/

- Begin copy -

The Knights Templar � properly called The Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Solomon � were founded during the early Crusades in the 12th century, when they protected pilgrims to the Holy Land, together with the Hospitallers (or Knights of St John). The Templars were so called because they were given part of the former Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem as their headquarters.

Noting that de Molay and the Knights had asked his pardon, the Pope wrote: �We hereby decree that they are absolved by the church and may again receive Christian sacraments.� Signor Forgione said that the Pope had failed to make this absolution public because the scandal of the Templars had aroused extreme passions and he feared a church schism. Philip IV had de Molay and other Templar leaders put to death before the Pope�s verdict could be published, and it was subsequently lost.

- End copy -

E. Baluze, Vitae Paparum Avenionensium, II, p.121 contains the exhonoration issued by the Pope through the cardinals who interrogated the Tempars in Chinon. Unfortunately, this particular reference is literary and not online in any venue that I can locate, and is written in Italian.

usmcski
10-04-2004, 03:35 AM
www.freemasonry.org
www.thelodgeroom.com

Deputy757
10-04-2004, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by SaNdMaN
There is no flexibility within organized religion. And, in the example of the off-shoots of Christianity, there are even bigger fallacies.

I don't want to turn this thread into a religion discussion, just saying that if the religions of the world were more respectful of the beliefs of ALL of the people of the world, there would be a hell of a lot less problems...
You're right, perhaps we should take it to PM or another thread. But to respond to the above, just because you believe that your religion is "right" doesn't mean you are not respectful of other's beliefs. There aren't that many religions that advocate violence anyway. It's typically man using religion as a smokescreen in order to do whatever he wants to do.

Netopalis
10-04-2004, 02:08 PM
I haven't read every post but I read most of them. I am not a mason, I have consider joining though. I do hold membership to a organization known as OA, Its not as well known or as big as masonary. Its alot like freemasonary but we promote different thing like outdoor life, camping, fishing like ect... We have secret handshakes, passwords, and rites. The reason we keep it a secret for us, and I figture this is the masons reason as well is to keep the honor, and prestige there. Also the secretecy help keeps people who isn't a member interested about it.

If they didn't have there secrets would you be asking for information about it? Or be interested in joining as much?

I am a Christian. I do believe people have the right to believe how they want too. In my church I am look down on because I am againest mission work. I have made it know we have no right to go to another country and tell them were right there wrong and there going to hell unless they believe in our way. On top of that I wouldn't like it if Budda come over here and did that to me. I also hate it when Jaova witness comes to the door telling I'm wrong and we both pray to the same god. I think some people take bible too seriously as in if it isn't word for word in the bible that its right, then its a sin.

Yxboom
10-04-2004, 05:42 PM
Posted by usmcski
www.thelodgeroom.com Unfortunately, the lodge room has closed, but another new and unused Masonic chat room is here:

http://www.trowel.com/phpbb2/ :D

Garbage Man
10-05-2004, 06:05 AM
In the midst of all this high brow theological discourse I have a really stupid question that maybe you Mason folks could answer for me. It is in no way intended to be a commentary on your organization.

Was Abner Doubleday a Mason?

I ask this cuz I am a fan of baseball and have often looked at the baseball diamond configuration and noted it exactly replicates the masonic symbol. If this has allready been commented on I am sorry but in truth I just do not have the time to read 5 pages of posts.

retdetsgt
10-05-2004, 03:48 PM
I think that I read that's it's a myth that Doubleday actually invented baseball. Really.... It might be on Snopes, but I did read some article that said baseball sorta evolved and Doubleday got credit. Too bad about the Cubs..... Again.....

Yxboom
10-05-2004, 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Garbage Man
Snip...
Was Abner Doubleday a Mason? I ask this cuz I am a fan of baseball and have often looked at the baseball diamond configuration and noted it exactly replicates the masonic symbol. If this has allready been commented on I am sorry but in truth I just do not have the time to read 5 pages of posts. No, he's not, but the symbolic similarity that you noted is absolutely remarkable!!!

archer0830
10-06-2004, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by retdetsgt
I think that I read that's it's a myth that Doubleday actually invented baseball. Really.... It might be on Snopes, but I did read some article that said baseball sorta evolved and Doubleday got credit. Too bad about the Cubs..... Again.....
I said I wouldn't post on this thread again...but about the Cubs. :mad: :o :( :( :(
It's hard to be a Cubbie fan.

Yxboom
10-06-2004, 05:41 PM
Wow, this is a long thread!!! I had no idea that Freemasonry would generate this much interest.

SaNdMaN
10-08-2004, 04:05 AM
For me it is a very interesting subject, primarily, as I've discussed above, because of the speculation of the involvement of the KT.

I enjoyed this thread as not only was it informative, but it's cool to see a thread go this long without a flame war...:D