Words biggest butthole

[JRT6]

This poll was researched and conducted by the same crack research and verification team Moore used in his last two movies.

[Santos]

I read that Moore was arrested today in France. Seems like when they searched him, they found 200 pounds of crack in his pants.

[TommyF]

LOL, Good Poll, I pick all of the above!:D :D :D

[Undecover]

It goes to show that BULLCRAP SELLS Big Time!

I consider this character to be a "walking" Enquirer News Rag - Nothing More!

[archer0830]

another vote for all of the above.

This guy wont be around too much longer.

[bradruth]

Originally posted by Santos
I read that Moore was arrested today in France. Seems like when they searched him, they found 200 pounds of crack in his pants.

LOL. :D

[Contact]

It's funny how each option has a different percentage...

[Gooch]

Hey, maybe the Republicans will come out with an action flic starring "The Governator" where he's sent back in time to terminate a left wing movie director turned political activist.

[OBird]

Letterman actually had a good joke for once tonight (went something like this): "Well, I went to see "farenheit 911" last night, and I had to wait in line for FOUR HOURS! No, not in the ticket line...michael moore was in front of me at the concession stand."

:D

[SomeGuy]

So any of you guys seen the movie?

[Santos]

I have not seen it. I quit supporting hollywood several years ago.

[keith758]

I heard that when Michael Moore gets into a hot tub, it starts making gravy.

[oscarmitre]

Originally posted by SomeGuy
So any of you guys seen the movie?

Not yet but I will when it comes here. I want to see if it's true about Bush sitting stunned in the school classroom for several minutes when he's told about the WTC disaster. I keep hearing about it but I want to see it for myself.

And there are a few other things in the film I want to see as well, to satisfy myself about them.

Personally I couldn't give a toss if Mikey ate the concession stand itself, I want to see the film. Everything else is bull****.

[156]

Originally posted by Santos
I read that Moore was arrested today in France. Seems like when they searched him, they found 200 pounds of crack in his pants.

http://www.themyscira.com/faces/78.gif Too funny!

I never watch movies, but even if I did, I wouldn't see any of his nonsense. I'm just going to stand by and wait for his 15 minute of shame---er, I mean "fame" to be up.

[Valor55]

I'm not going to contribute to his box office numbers. I'll rent the movie after it's been out a few years and he's not making money of me.

[JB2245]

Originally posted by SomeGuy
So any of you guys seen the movie?

You would have to pay ME to watch that liberal bull$hit propaganda.

[JRT6]

Originally posted by oscarmitre
Not yet but I will when it comes here. I want to see if it's true about Bush sitting stunned in the school classroom for several minutes when he's told about the WTC disaster. I keep hearing about it but I want to see it for myself.
.

He was stunned (who wouldn't be?) and it wasn't for several minutes. That video clip has been shown public literaly from the day it happened which is the problem with the movie: same old conspiracy theories, guilt by association, clever editing and manipulating to make Bush look like a Boob. Some of the liberals are worried that the movie tries to makes Bush look so bad, in a such an obvious propagadist mean spirited way, that it might steer undecided voters and moderates to vote for him.

[DanteSF]

Originally posted by Gooch
Hey, maybe the Republicans will come out with an action flic starring "The Governator" where he's sent back in time to terminate a left wing movie director turned political activist. You win...at life. ;)

[retired]

Originally posted by JRT6
clever editing and manipulating to make Bush look like a Boob.

I don't think that it takes any clever editing or manipulating to accomplish that.:D :D

[nyc]

Originally posted by JB2245
You would have to pay ME to watch that liberal bull$hit propaganda.

Funny how the biggest self-appointed critics don't even bother to watch the film, yet constantly profess to know that it's all "bull$hit propaganda."

[Bart]

Originally posted by JRT6
Some of the liberals are worried that the movie tries to makes Bush look so bad, in a such an obvious propagadist mean spirited way, that it might steer undecided voters and moderates to vote for him.

after seeing the movie, i almost wanted to vote for bush. not because i think he's a great president. but because i felt sorry for him. people with down syndrome speak more cohearantly than he does. fortunately, i quickly came to my senses. :D :D

[Bart]

Originally posted by nyc
Funny how the biggest self-appointed critics don't even bother to watch the film, yet constantly profess to know that it's all "bull$hit propaganda."

what i find funny is when cops like to degrade so called liberals but then join the union 5 minutes after their hired onto the department. if it werent for them damn yankee liberals, there wouldnt be any PBA, FOP or whatever the union is for their respective departments.

on top of that, cops dont make enough money to join the republican elite club. :D :D

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
what i find funny is when cops like to degrade so called liberals but then join the union 5 minutes after their hired onto the department. if it werent for them damn yankee liberals, there wouldnt be any PBA, FOP or whatever the union is for their respective departments.

on top of that, cops dont make enough money to join the republican elite club. :D :D

And they'd have some trouble running with Kerry and Kennedy too. Republicans have no franchise on rich idiots. Congress is full of filthy rich Democrats.

Democrats have strange heros.... Michael Moore flies around in the country in his private jet berating the corporate fat cats???:rolleyes:

Joining a union is hardly contridictory to wanting people to have to work for a living, unlike the Democrats who are happy to get votes by taxing the working so they can give money to the worthless. Helping someone who needs it situationally is a lot different from the Democratic ideal of creating an entire class of welfare recipients... Johnson's "Great Society" is the textbook of that.

[6233108]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
And they'd have some trouble running with Kerry and Kennedy too. Republicans have no franchise on rich idiots. Congress is full of filthy rich Democrats.

Democrats have strange heros.... Michael Moore flies around in the country in his private jet berating the corporate fat cats???:rolleyes:

Joining a union is hardly contridictory to wanting people to have to work for a living, unlike the Democrats who are happy to get votes by taxing the working so they can give money to the worthless. Helping someone who needs it situationally is a lot different from the Democratic ideal of creating an entire class of welfare recipients... Johnson's "Great Society" is the textbook of that.

RDS the Dems like being in the position of slave master or "massa". It's the democrat ideology that government should take care of all your needs from cradle to grave as long as you keep pumping them with adequate tax revenues. The government is the largest union employer, unfortunately they can't reward the hard workers any better than the loser ROD's. Union's are great for helping the lazy *** Mofo's amongst us, the most successful companies reward those that produce and rid themselves quickly of those hacks that deserve unemployment.

[ChrisF202]

Originally posted by SomeGuy
So any of you guys seen the movie?
Yeah, it was his usual c---. He says stuff like Bush sent the Saudis out of the US following 9/11 because they were his buddies, but in reality Richard Clarke sent them out for their own safety as they feared a lynch mob would go after them. He also claims that the Oregon State Police only has 8 troopers on duty statewide at night because of Bush's cuts, impossible when the force has over 1,000 sworn officers. That man makes me mad, very very mad. I was even madder when all the liberals applauded at the end of the movie :mad: :mad: I dont get how some liberals can act as if that man's words are from God, how can they belive that man?

on top of that, cops dont make enough money to join the republican elite club.on top of that, cops dont make enough money to join the republican elite club.
Bart, I dont know about where you live, but where I live a Police Officer (the lowest of like a dozen ranks in a 3,000 member force) or a Deputy Sheriff (again lowest rank out of about 10 in a 1,100 member force) can easily make over $100,000 a year. One sergeant in the sheriff's office made $250,000. Suffolk County cops are the highest paid cops on Earth. Yet, were one of the safest counties in America so I guess they deserve that money for making it so.

[nickg]

Originally posted by nyc
Funny how the biggest self-appointed critics don't even bother to watch the film, yet constantly profess to know that it's all "bull$hit propaganda."

you're an idiot. and that's no bull$hit.

[keith758]

One of the best arguments against Moore's film and it's contentions that Bush and Cheney are so evil and powerfull is: Why is Michael Moore still alive? If they are as powerfull as he professes, wouldn't thay have done something to silence him? If they have enough power to start a war solely to profit from it, wouldn't it stand to reason they could have had him killed, and stopped the production of his film if they were so inclined? Michael Moore is smart enough to know that the liberals and the Democrats will swallow anything that bashes the president without question. He is the atypical hypocrite, bashing the wealthy and elite, when he profits off of them, and is one of them.

[retired]

Originally posted by nickg
you're an idiot. and that's no bull$hit.

As always nickg, your responses are thought out and address the issue head on.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[nyc]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
Joining a union is hardly contridictory to wanting people to have to work for a living, unlike the Democrats who are happy to get votes by taxing the working so they can give money to the worthless.

That's one perspective, but how is racking up a trillion dollar deficit and spending like there's no tomorrow (current Republicans) going to help anyone? Someone's going to have to pay off all that debt created with the Iraq situation and funding those fat tax cuts for the wealthy, and the only revenue stream I can think of that will pay it off is taxes.

I know many like to characterize Democrats as "tax and spend Democrats," but sorry, the Republicans are no more fiscally conservative (maybe even less when you consider that Clinton did maintain a balanced budget) with their "cut taxes and spend even more" mentality.

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by nyc
That's one perspective, but how is racking up a trillion dollar deficit and spending like there's no tomorrow (current Republicans) going to help anyone? Someone's going to have to pay off all that debt created with the Iraq situation and funding those fat tax cuts for the wealthy, and the only revenue stream I can think of that will pay it off is taxes.

I know many like to characterize Democrats as "tax and spend Democrats," but sorry, the Republicans are no more fiscally conservative (maybe even less when you consider that Clinton did maintain a balanced budget) with their "cut taxes and spend even more" mentality.

Those tax cuts to the wealthy that everyone is wringing their hands over is what got the ecomony out of the slump and started it going again..... Each day the economy is becoming less and less of an issue the Democrats can whine about.

Clinton did it by having a Republican Congress. The agreement to balance the budget was make by Bush Sr. with Congress before he left office.... Clinton was great at taking the Republican ideals and using them, like welfare reform.... Clinton was a jerk, but he was a great politician.

A huge part of the deficit came about because of an economy that started failing under Clinton. Sorry, but that's the truth. Bush warned of a recesion during the campaign and Democrats called him an alarmist. It started tanking in April of 2000, 8 months before Bush took office. Also 9-11 caused an increase in spending as did admittedly Iraq. But Iraq wasn't the only cause.

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by 6233108
Union's are great for helping the lazy *** Mofo's amongst us, the most successful companies reward those that produce and rid themselves quickly of those hacks that deserve unemployment.

I'll be happy to compare wages in benefits in a right to work state and a union state. Some of the old guys on my dept when I started recalled when we weren't paid overtime and worked 6 days a week.

Unions can get out of hand, I grant that. Mine has helped people keep jobs that should have been fired, but I'm living quite comfortably on my retirement because of my union. I don't mind the trade off at all. Before that, a lot of cops were working into their 70's because they couldn't afford to retire.

[Valor55]

Originally posted by nyc
Someone's going to have to pay off all that debt created with the Iraq situation and funding those fat tax cuts for the wealthy, and the only revenue stream I can think of that will pay it off is taxes.


I actually live below the federal government's definition of the poverty line. The tax cuts were very helpfull for me and my family. Am I wealthy?

Most conservatives I know don't consider the Republican Party a conservative party. In fact I'm very disappointed Bush lied when he called himself conservative. Considering he's done nothing but increase the size of the government I don't consider him conservative by any definition.

I do know this. Kerry is a pathological liar every time he opens his mouth. Kerry has voted against every major weapons program and improvement to the military. He has also supported gutting our already stretched intelligence services. Do I want him fighting the war on terror? NO WAY. Has Bush made some mistakes? Yes, but at least he's putting up a fight. Kerry would still be massaging the UN trying to get a resolution condemning the 9-11 attacks let alone kicking some Al-Qaeda *****.

[6233108]

Originally posted by ChrisF202
Bart, I dont know about where you live, but where I live a Police Officer (the lowest of like a dozen ranks in a 3,000 member force) or a Deputy Sheriff (again lowest rank out of about 10 in a 1,100 member force) can easily make over $100,000 a year. One sergeant in the sheriff's office made $250,000. Suffolk County cops are the highest paid cops on Earth. Yet, were one of the safest counties in America so I guess they deserve that money for making it so.

Not a valid comparison at all, being that they are THE TOP paid in all of American LE. Most of us make between 50K-85K a year and take home 35K-65K. Unlike corporations we can not write off all of our operating expenses. There are officers in Southern OH making 28K a year:(

[Bart]

Originally posted by ChrisF202

Bart, I dont know about where you live, but where I live a Police Officer (the lowest of like a dozen ranks in a 3,000 member force) or a Deputy Sheriff (again lowest rank out of about 10 in a 1,100 member force) can easily make over $100,000 a year. One sergeant in the sheriff's office made $250,000. Suffolk County cops are the highest paid cops on Earth. Yet, were one of the safest counties in America so I guess they deserve that money for making it so.

of course you can break a hundred grand a year when youre topped out in new york and youre stroking the overtime clock. we used to be able to do that here in florida too until admin caught on to the overtime abuses and capped off the city OT at 10 hours per week. however, off duty security details arent subject to the same restrictions. we're allowed to work 24 hours of details a week.

[Bart]

Originally posted by Valor55
Kerry would still be massaging the UN trying to get a resolution condemning the 9-11 attacks let alone kicking some Al-Qaeda *****.

we may have won the battle against terrorist but we havent won the war. if we had won the war, people still wouldnt be getting beheaded and we still wouldnt be on this orange alert status garbage. if bush can show he can protect me, then i'll be impressed. until then, i want to give somebody else a shot at it.

[Valor55]

Originally posted by Bart
we may have won the battle against terrorist but we havent won the war. if we had won the war, people still wouldnt be getting beheaded and we still wouldnt be on this orange alert status garbage. if bush can show he can protect me, then i'll be impressed. until then, i want to give somebody else a shot at it.

Who? Kerry? He has stated that terrorism is a law enforcement problem not a military one. He isn't going to fight al-qaueda in Afghanistan and Iraq, you and I will be fighting it here (this was Clinton's strategy as well).

I'm not a Bush fan, don't get me wrong. But Kerry on any alternate planet isn't going to put up a fight for anything.

Nobody can guarantee our safety. Not Bush, and not Kerry. There will be terrorist attacks here again, I'm surprised there hasn't been any up until now. But I know if we aren't fighting them in the Middle East with our military, we'll be fighting them here with our police. I know the military can do this job better than we can.

[retired]

Originally posted by Valor55
Who? Kerry? He has stated that terrorism is a law enforcement problem not a military one.



I haven't been able to find that quote by Kerry, but in any event, each of chooses the candidate of our choice. If Kerry is someone candidate of choice, it doen't bother me. If Bush is the candidate of someones choice it doesn't bother me. I make my choice who I will vote for, and if others don't like it, it is their problem, not mine.:) :)

[6233108]

Originally posted by Bart
we may have won the battle against terrorist but we havent won the war. if we had won the war, people still wouldnt be getting beheaded and we still wouldnt be on this orange alert status garbage. if bush can show he can protect me, then i'll be impressed. until then, i want to give somebody else a shot at it.

Bart as long as you do not venture into the war zone of Iraq your head should remain right where it belongs...firmly planted on the dark side of your sphincter:p :eek:

[Bart]

Originally posted by 6233108
Bart as long as you do not venture into the war zone of Iraq your head should remain right where it belongs...firmly planted on the dark side of your sphincter:p :eek:

i suppose since youre here in the states with me, you can show me exactly how to do it.

[nickg]

Originally posted by retired
As always nickg, your responses are thought out and address the issue head on.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

and anyone who thinks that fat *** moore could POSSIBLY make a picture that is NOT a propagandist tool and is in any way, shape, or form "truthful" (a foreign phrase to people like moore) is, and will continue to be, an idiot.

[retired]

Originally posted by nickg
and anyone who thinks that fat *** moore could POSSIBLY make a picture that is NOT a propagandist tool and is in any way, shape, or form "truthful" (a foreign phrase to people like moore) is, and will continue to be, an idiot.


Ahhhh nickg, as always when someone disagrees with you, call them a derogatory name.:rolleyes:

[nyc]

Originally posted by Valor55
I actually live below the federal government's definition of the poverty line. The tax cuts were very helpfull for me and my family. Am I wealthy?

Were they really that helpful? At face value they may look good, but how much is $500 (or whatever it may have been) going to help if local and state taxes go up to compensate for lack of federal funds? How will it help whenever Bush or his successor decide to fix the budget problem and pay off the debt? I actually really am curious because you're one of the few people I've heard actually say that the tax cuts have been useful to you (other than people like Cheney who pocketed something like $100,000).

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by nyc
Were they really that helpful? At face value they may look good, but how much is $500 (or whatever it may have been) going to help if local and state taxes go up to compensate for lack of federal funds? How will it help whenever Bush or his successor decide to fix the budget problem and pay off the debt? I actually really am curious because you're one of the few people I've heard actually say that the tax cuts have been useful to you (other than people like Cheney who pocketed something like $100,000).

What it did was spur the economy by freeing more money for investment. It goes against all the mores of academic economics, but it sure worked. The economy almost immediately started to recover after that tax cut. The truth is in the success.

[nyc]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
What it did was spur the economy by freeing more money for investment. It goes against all the mores of academic economics, but it sure worked. The economy almost immediately started to recover after that tax cut. The truth is in the success.

This may be one way of looking at it but I'm sure you realize that there are just as many people going around saying that the economy really isn't in recovery and that this trickle-down theory doesn't work (which has been disputed since Reagan tried to do it, and personally I'm more inclined to believe it doesn't work). But frankly, I'm going to wait until after the November election to choose whom to believe because right now it's all politics from both sides and it's hard to find the truth amidst all the mudslinging.

[JRT6]

Originally posted by Bart
what i find funny is when cops like to degrade so called liberals but then join the union 5 minutes after their hired onto the department. if it werent for them damn yankee liberals, there wouldnt be any PBA, FOP or whatever the union is for their respective departments.

on top of that, cops dont make enough money to join the republican elite club. :D :D

Actually I don't find it funny that I can't afford to be a so-called liberal. Cuyahoga County sales tax is at 8.5% and that still ain't enough to fund all the great liberal entitlement programs. The democrat controlled county is going bankrupt and the Cleveland PD has had to lay off hundreds of cops rather than the city or county cut one social program. As far as unions the FOP has laid in the laps of liberals repeated over the years and got nothing in return. At leas the conservatives around here don't promise the cops anything.

[JRT6]

There's a bit of thread drift here and the point of this thread wasn't liberal vs conservative. The point was that Michael Moore is the "world's biggest butthole" and won that title through his own selfless and relentless hard work to expose us "stupid white people". I like how whenever all the obvious lies in Moore's movies, including those pointed out by liberal periodicals such as Newsweek, he drops the truth charade and says he was only trying to provoke thought

Actually Moore shows all the classic symptoms of Narsasitic Personality Disorder. A condition characterized by a deep sense of failure and inadequacy typically stemming from early childhood. When Moore's sense of superiority is threatened, and it will happen eventually that guy's just too obnoxious for most people even liberals, we'll all see the true Michael Moore and it will be ugly by anyone standards or biases.

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by nyc
This may be one way of looking at it but I'm sure you realize that there are just as many people going around saying that the economy really isn't in recovery and that this trickle-down theory doesn't work (which has been disputed since Reagan tried to do it, and personally I'm more inclined to believe it doesn't work). But frankly, I'm going to wait until after the November election to choose whom to believe because right now it's all politics from both sides and it's hard to find the truth amidst all the mudslinging.

The tax cut was the only thing that happened and the economy was on a steep downside. Afterwards it took off. Some say that Reagan's trinkle down economics is what gave us the boom in the 90's. I don't really think so, I think it was the artificial dot com explosion. Companies' stocks were rising when they were in fact offering no viable product. All their money came from investors. But I do believe that Reagan's policies helped.

But the government taking money out of the economy doesn't improve it. Business, not government is what runs a nation's economy. Government jobs are a drain where private industry jobs boost everything.

My old city is a micro organism of a Democratic-Socialist government that has shot itself in the foot continually. They raised business taxes to the point that many are leaving the city. One pizza palor owner wanted to move his single proprietorship business across the street and the city billed him $27K for doing so. He packed up and left. We had a chance to get several manufactoring firms to build here that would have created good paying jobs, but they passed us over for a more tax friendly Austin, Texas. Now those Texans have good jobs and are paying taxes.

People complain about corporate tax cuts, etc. but they are what keeps us going. The healthier they are, the more jobs they create and ergo the more people you have paying taxes so you have a stronger government. Liberals just don't seem to grasp that concept.

[6233108]

Originally posted by JRT6
Actually I don't find it funny that I can't afford to be a so-called liberal. Cuyahoga County sales tax is at 8.5% and that still ain't enough to fund all the great liberal entitlement programs. The democrat controlled county is going bankrupt and the Cleveland PD has had to lay off hundreds of cops rather than the city or county cut one social program. As far as unions the FOP has laid in the laps of liberals repeated over the years and got nothing in return. At leas the conservatives around here don't promise the cops anything.

Can I get an AMEN for my RTA brother!! How's good old Sgt. ZUS and Sgt. Jake doing?? I could have not said it better myself!!:D :D

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
What it did was spur the economy by freeing more money for investment. It goes against all the mores of academic economics, but it sure worked. The economy almost immediately started to recover after that tax cut. The truth is in the success.

how are you measuring success? the number of people applying for umemployment compensation? the dow jones? the national average wage? loss/gain of total number of jobs?

i dont know about in your state but florida has yet to have a year since 2000 where we gained more jobs than we lost. the jobs that we are gaining are low wage jobs as opposed to the higher wage white collar jobs that are being outsourced to other contries.

the only sign of an economic upturn that we've seen is in the amout of people receiving unemployment compensation. however, that doesnt mean all is hunky dory down here. that just means that some people were unemployed for so long or some people took a lower wage job that they no longer qualify for benefits.

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
how are you measuring success? the number of people applying for umemployment compensation? the dow jones? the national average wage? loss/gain of total number of jobs?

i dont know about in your state but florida has yet to have a year since 2000 where we gained more jobs than we lost. the jobs that we are gaining are low wage jobs as opposed to the higher wage white collar jobs that are being outsourced to other contries.

the only sign of an economic upturn that we've seen is in the amout of people receiving unemployment compensation. however, that doesnt mean all is hunky dory down here. that just means that some people were unemployed for so long or some people took a lower wage job that they no longer qualify for benefits.

Maybe Florida has it's own economic problem. Wouldn't surprise me when the Democrats can't even make a ballot their own people can understand! It's not hunk dory anywhere, but it's getting better everyday.

1.5 million jobs have been added in the last few months. True, they haven't reached the level that they were pre 2000 when it started tanking and jobs started being lost while Clinton was still in. But the economy is certainly on the rise in all states except maybe Florida. Read the business section of any major newspaper.

But you also have to understand that a lot of those jobs were computer related to the dot.com boom which was artificial. Many had great jobs in businesses that produced no product, only had investor money to pay with. No one is going to be able to recover those jobs.

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
Maybe Florida has it's own economic problem. Wouldn't surprise me when the Democrats can't even make a ballot their own people can understand!

but the democrats have no power here. both the governers office and the house of legislation are controlled by republicans.

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
It's not hunk dory anywhere, but it's getting better everyday.

1.5 million jobs have been added in the last few months. True, they haven't reached the level that they were pre 2000 when it started tanking and jobs started being lost while Clinton was still in. But the economy is certainly on the rise in all states except maybe Florida. Read the business section of any major newspaper.

But you also have to understand that a lot of those jobs were computer related to the dot.com boom which was artificial. Many had great jobs in businesses that produced no product, only had investor money to pay with. No one is going to be able to recover those jobs.

what about the blue collar manufacturing jobs? theyve been outsourced to other countries and havent come back. where are those people working now? or how about pink collar jobs like customer service and tech support operations? those jobs are being oursourced also. what happened to the people working those jobs? theyre probably working at mcdonalds or walmart. there's your 1.5 million jobs.

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
what about the blue collar manufacturing jobs? theyve been outsourced to other countries and havent come back. where are those people working now? or how about pink collar jobs like customer service and tech support operations? those jobs are being oursourced also. what happened to the people working those jobs? theyre probably working at mcdonalds or walmart. there's your 1.5 million jobs.

And the Democrats are going to stop that!:D :D That's a fact of life and is going to be from now on. Bush tried to get steel manufactoring jobs back in this country and met horrible resistance and repercussion from the EU. Blaming Republicans for that is silly.

And I don't see a lot of middle class people working at either McDonalds or Walmart. The same kind of people that were working there 15 years ago are working there now. Nice drama, but not true.

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
And I don't see a lot of middle class people working at either McDonalds or Walmart. The same kind of people that were working there 15 years ago are working there now. Nice drama, but not true.

you say you dont see alot of middle class people working at walmart? how can you tell a middle class person from a lower class person when theyre all wearing the same walmart or mcdonalds uniform? is there some kind of secret hand signal that i dont know about?

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
you say you dont see alot of middle class people working at walmart? how can you tell a middle class person from a lower class person when theyre all wearing the same walmart or mcdonalds uniform? is there some kind of secret hand signal that i dont know about?

Yeah, talk to them for a minute.....:rolleyes:

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
And the Democrats are going to stop that!:D :D That's a fact of life and is going to be from now on. Bush tried to get steel manufactoring jobs back in this country and met horrible resistance and repercussion from the EU. Blaming Republicans for that is silly.


democrats cant stop outsourcing but they can discourage it by eliminating tax breaks to companies that decide to outsource. as it stands now, companies still benefit from tax breaks even if theyre not contributing to our economy.

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
Yeah, talk to them for a minute.....:rolleyes:

oh so its not a secret hand signal. its actually a secret language. i get it now. :rolleyes:

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
democrats cant stop outsourcing but they can discourage it by eliminating tax breaks to companies that decide to outsource. as it stands now, companies still benefit from tax breaks even if theyre not contributing to our economy.

Do that and they move completely out of this country.. Good thinking! Most are only outsourcing parts of their jobs out to other countries and they are the lower paying ones anyway. Do you really think tech reps make much money?

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
oh so its not a secret hand signal. its actually a secret language. i get it now. :rolleyes:

If you can't tell anything about someone by talking to them, how the hell did you ever make it as a cop? Geez, it ain't rocket science. Secret lanquage my butt, it's the level of vocabulary, etc. There's a good reason that most of the people that work there have those jobs unless they're really young.

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
Do that and they move completely out of this country.. Good thinking!

you actually think established corporations will leave the american market and subject themselves to tariffs? americans are consumers. this is the market that corporations from all over the world target. even if for example dell moves to india. another company like sony or toshiba will establish themselves in the market place just like toyota and honda did as long as we treat them right for bringing jobs into the country.

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
If you can't tell anything about someone by talking to them, how the hell did you ever make it as a cop?

do you actually think i get into deep intimate conversation with the cashiers? the extent of my conversations are hello and thank you. i guess you either have alot of time on your hands or you have ESP. i cant tell much about anybody just by a "hello" and a "thank you".

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
do you actually think i get into deep intimate conversation with the cashiers? the extent of my conversations are hello and thank you. i guess you either have alot of time on your hands or you have ESP. i cant tell much about anybody just by a "hello" and a "thank you".

That's your problem then. I talk to a lot of people, including clerks I deal with. So how do you know a lot of middle class people are working there then?

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
you actually think established corporations will leave the american market and subject themselves to tariffs? americans are consumers. this is the market that corporations from all over the world target. even if for example dell moves to india. another company like sony or toshiba will establish themselves in the market place just like toyota and honda did as long as we treat them right for bringing jobs into the country.

Baloney. If they get cheap labor in other countries they can well afford the tariffs just like Honda, Toyota and the like. It wouldn't affect their market share one iota. They lose nothing by moving out of this country. India would welcome them with open arms. Ireland gave HP and IBM great tax breaks to move some of their manufactoring there. They would wet their pants if they moved all their operations to their countries and they could still sell to the US and make more money, tariffs or not.

You have that same goofy attiude that Democrats have about trying to improve the economy by taxing the very people that make it work. Government only leaches off the economy, not sustain it.

As far as jobs in Oregon, this story was posted today:

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_070804_biz_oregon_jobs.2dad25435.html

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
Baloney. If they get cheap labor in other countries they can well afford the tariffs just like Honda, Toyota and the like. It wouldn't affect their market share one iota.

honda, toyota and the like are building their cars here. why? because we take care of companies that bring in jobs through tax breaks.

right now, companies get a piece of pie whether they outsource or not. sweeten that same piece of pie for american companies who keep jobs in america. if they dont keep jobs in america, dont give them any pie at all. im willing to bet that if the government sweetens the pie just enough, companies will reconsider outsourcing.

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
honda, toyota and the like are building their cars here. why? because we take care of companies that bring in jobs through tax breaks.

right now, companies get a piece of pie whether they outsource or not. sweeten that same piece of pie for american companies who keep jobs in america. if they dont keep jobs in america, dont give them any pie at all. im willing to bet that if the government sweetens the pie just enough, companies will reconsider outsourcing.

Toyota and Honda are building cars here because they were pressured to or get higher tariffs. Not tax breaks. They were competing too much with American car makers.

And those companies can make more money than tax breaks would give them if they moved out of the country. And again, they are usually only outsourcing the lower paying jobs, you keep skipping that part.

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
And again, they are usually only outsourcing the lower paying jobs, you keep skipping that part.

lower paying jobs but skilled labor that could lead to advancement in the company nonetheless. how many of those affected by outsourcing will find a comparable job with the same advancement opportunity if this trend continues? im willing to bet hardly any. theyll be the ones working the dead end jobs at walmart.

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
lower paying jobs but skilled labor that could lead to advancement in the company nonetheless. how many of those affected by outsourcing will find a comparable job with the same advancement opportunity if this trend continues? im willing to bet hardly any. theyll be the ones working the dead end jobs at walmart.

How do you come up with stuff like that? Wal-Mart has opportunities for people to advance. Probably better than one as a tech rep because someone with something on the ball will stand out at Wal-Mart. Besides, you never answered my question, how do you know so many middle class are working at Wal-Mart and McDonalds? I've never seen any stats showing that.

The job markets change, that's a fact of life. Thirty years ago logging was the primary industry here in Oregon. Today there is very little and almost all the lumber mills have closed. People that worked there for 25+ years were out of a job and had no other skills. I didn't see the Democrats wringing their hands over that! It was caused by environmentalist demanding a stop to shipping logs overseas. But people had to adapt and get other kinds of jobs Same with outsourcing. The country will have to and will adapt. Companies can't compete even here when they have to pay high wages for low skill jobs. The reason that Dell computer is affordable is because they outsource some of their stuff. Otherwise it would cost you twice as much and then you'd be ****ed again.

Everyone wants high pay and low prices on everything. That would be great if it could happen, but it's impossible.

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
Besides, you never answered my question, how do you know so many middle class are working at Wal-Mart and McDonalds?

i dont know that. however, its a logical assumption. after all, where else are they going to be able to get a job.

BTW, dell computers started outsourcing as recently as 2 years ago. same with HP/compaq. however, their prices havent dropped. as a matter of fact, prices have gone up consistent with inflation. the money saved from outsourcing isnt being rewarded to the consumers. its fattening the pockets of the CEO's.

[nickg]

Originally posted by retired
Ahhhh nickg, as always when someone disagrees with you, call them a derogatory name.:rolleyes:

like the saying goes, "if the foo *****s, wear it"

i'm not calling someone an idiot because they disagree with me, but i'll call them an idiot if, as i stated, they think that moore's "crockumentary" is "truth"!!

i don't know if it's funny or just pathetic that moore can actually dupe so many people. what's even more pathetic is that HE actually believes his own horse*****. well, except for the part where "evil America" lines his own fat *** pockets, then all bets are off.

moore wouldn't think twice of cozying up to pol pot or stalin if it would put money in his bank account.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Bart]

Originally posted by nickg
moore wouldn't think twice of cozying up to pol pot or stalin if it would put money in his bank account.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

im sure cheney and the crew from haliburton wouldnt either. :D

[retired]

Originally posted by nickg
like the saying goes, "if the foo *****s, wear it"

i'm not calling someone an idiot because they disagree with me, but i'll call them an idiot if, as i stated, they think that moore's "crockumentary" is "truth"!!

i don't know if it's funny or just pathetic that moore can actually dupe so many people. what's even more pathetic is that HE actually believes his own horse*****. well, except for the part where "evil America" lines his own fat *** pockets, then all bets are off.

moore wouldn't think twice of cozying up to pol pot or stalin if it would put money in his bank account.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Ahhhh, if only you were in charge of the world, all of us would have to do just what you dictate.:eek: :eek: :(

[nyc]

Originally posted by JRT6
including those pointed out by liberal periodicals such as Newsweek

Did I miss something this past week? When did Newsweek become a "liberal periodical"?

(I hate to break it to you, but Newsweek is neither conservative nor liberal, it's simply a popular mainstream magazine, and really not, IMHO, a very good one at that.)

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
i dont know that. however, its a logical assumption. after all, where else are they going to be able to get a job.

BTW, dell computers started outsourcing as recently as 2 years ago. same with HP/compaq. however, their prices havent dropped. as a matter of fact, prices have gone up consistent with inflation. the money saved from outsourcing isnt being rewarded to the consumers. its fattening the pockets of the CEO's.

I thought you made the Wal-Mart story up.

Even if the CEO made 60 million a year, that would still only be a fraction of the profits Dell makes. The money goes to the investors who buy stocks. Yeah, CEO's are overpayed, but to say a significant portion of the company profits goes to them is ridiculous.

And the prices of computers have gone down if you look at the rise in technology over the last 10 years. Dollar for dollar, you get much more for your money.

Again, outsourcing is the wave of the future. The job market is going to have to adjust to make up for it just like it's done decade after decade in this country starting with the industrial revolution. And again, low prices and high wages in this country are compatable.

[Bart]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
I thought you made the Wal-Mart story up.


what story are you talking about. my first mention of walmart was this: "what happened to the people working those jobs? theyre probably working at mcdonalds or walmart. there's your 1.5 million jobs."

where's the story in that statement? middle class people probably working at walmart. there's no story. :confused:

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
what story are you talking about. my first mention of walmart was this: "what happened to the people working those jobs? theyre probably working at mcdonalds or walmart. there's your 1.5 million jobs."

where's the story in that statement? middle class people probably working at walmart. there's no story. :confused:

Probably in your mind only..... You have nothing to back it up and I seriously doubt people who were making 50K are working for minimum wage at Wal-Mart and McDonalds. Just because it sounds reasonable to you personally doesn't make it true.

If the economy was such a problem, why isn't Kerry still harping about it? Now he's decided he has "values" and it toting that. The Democrats haven't mentioned the economy in weeks, for good reason.

[Valor55]

Originally posted by nyc
Were they really that helpful? At face value they may look good, but how much is $500 (or whatever it may have been) going to help if local and state taxes go up to compensate for lack of federal funds? How will it help whenever Bush or his successor decide to fix the budget problem and pay off the debt? I actually really am curious because you're one of the few people I've heard actually say that the tax cuts have been useful to you (other than people like Cheney who pocketed something like $100,000).

Yes they were. If you didn't find them helpfull why don't you send them back? If you wand to pay more for the federal goverment to **** away and lose have at it. I'd rather spend mine. That initial tax rebate wasn't a lottery win but it was nice to pay off a few bills without sweating the money in blood. Since then the lower tax rate as well as the higher child credits have contributed quite a bit for us. Kerry wants to take that money away from me on top of all the other ways the government manages to bleed me. It's already bad enough I don't need them find another way to steal from me.

[6233108]

RDS and Bart are thread hijackers:D

[Bart]

Originally posted by 6233108
RDS and Bart are thread hijackers:D

i just noticed that. LOL my apologies. ;)

[nyc]

Originally posted by Valor55
That initial tax rebate wasn't a lottery win but it was nice to pay off a few bills without sweating the money in blood.

I hear that, but I'm wondering if your overall taxes have actually increased. How is the situation locally and state-wise? If the feds have less money it generally means cuts to funding channelled to the states, which means they in turn have to find a way to compensate. So, have your taxes stayed the same and you've actually really made a "profit" off the $500, or is that money going toward paying other taxes?

Kerry wants to take that money away from me on top of all the other ways the government manages to bleed me.

Yes, but to that I respond that someone has to pick up the slack and return us to fiscal responsibility. I can understand tax cuts when the economy is great and we have a massive surplus, but when the government is deep in a trillion dollar deficit, overall government expansion, and no end is in sight with the massive spending, someone is eventually going to have to pay for it. I'm not sure that giving already obscenely rich people like Dick Cheney or even Kerry himself several hundred thousand dollar breaks is good for people like you or me. $500 is a sad joke in comparison to what those who really benefited received. And again it'll be people like you or me who will end up paying for this Administration's gross fiscal mismanagement and a few lousy tax return checks aren't going to cut it.

[rebbryan]

our public library has bowling for columbine, i'm gonna check it out to look at all the pretty guns. they'll probably get 9/11 too, so i'll probably check that out too rather than watching it in the theater and giving him my $

[JRT6]

Just because Newsweek doesn't slant it's news as much as TIME dosen't mean it ain't biased. CW says it's pretty darned biased.

I just remembered all the great things liberal Clinton and his friends at the Justic Department did for us in law enforcement:
consent decries

Just ask the fellas at LAPD, Pittsburg PA, Stuebenville OH, Columbus OH, etc. It's the greatest thing to happen to them:rolleyes:

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by nyc
I hear that, but I'm wondering if your overall taxes have actually increased. How is the situation locally and state-wise? If the feds have less money it generally means cuts to funding channelled to the states, which means they in turn have to find a way to compensate. So, have your taxes stayed the same and you've actually really made a "profit" off the $500, or is that money going toward paying other taxes?





The problem with that theory is that the money isn't distributed equitably. Because Robert Byrd is the senior Senator on the Appropriations Committee, tiny West Virginia gets far more dollars than they pay into the federal government. So don't say it's on need, it's on who has the most powerful reps in Congress.

It's more fair to stop federal funding and let each state pay it's own way. I see no reason I should pay for more monuments to Bobby Byrd when my state gets fewer dollars back than they send to Washhington.

[nyc]

Originally posted by JRT6
I just remembered all the great things liberal Clinton and his friends at the Justic Department did for us in law enforcement:
consent decries

Yeah, I can't disagree with that. Personally I didn't think Clinton was that bad, but the consent decrees were pretty stupid. The LAPD already isn't getting enough money as it is and they have to waste millions every year to make sure they're in "compliance" with the decree. Ridiculous.

[nyc]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
So don't say it's on need, it's on who has the most powerful reps in Congress..

Heh, yes, well, I wasn't trying to deny that politics are corrupt, particularly when it comes to disproportionately pork barreling money to particular states.

[Valor55]

Actually recent estimates of the money coming into the government has increased. The government is making more money despite the tax cuts because of all the reinvestment into the economy.

[Bart]

Originally posted by JRT6
I just remembered all the great things liberal Clinton and his friends at the Justic Department did for us in law enforcement:
consent decries

Just ask the fellas at LAPD, Pittsburg PA, Stuebenville OH, Columbus OH, etc. It's the greatest thing to happen to them:rolleyes:

if those departments werent so screwed up, they wouldnt have anything to worry about. my department is lucky to have the chief we have. he came in and cleaned house so we wouldnt have to be subject to oversight. if the admin at LAPD cleaned house before being forced to, they wouldnt be in the position theyre in now.

[nickg]

Originally posted by retired
Ahhhh, if only you were in charge of the world, all of us would have to do just what you dictate.:eek: :eek: :(

retired -- after all this time now you finally DO get it!!!!

:D :D :D

[JRT6]

Originally posted by Bart
if those departments werent so screwed up, they wouldnt have anything to worry about.


Obvously your the expert on the exact problems that each of those departments had and you've determined it no doubt required the draconian so called solutions that have made law enforcement there all but in-effective.

I love how under a consent decree any officer with four or more complaints against them in a year if their found to be unfounded(not unsubstantiated) have to be transfered of fired. Drug dealers in LA carry business cards of IA detectives on them because they know with one call the charge agaisnt them is dropped and a cop is on more complaint closer to the unemployment line. Who suffers from this along with the cops: the citizens of those cities. Bleeding heart liberals my a...

[Bart]

Originally posted by JRT6
Obvously your the expert on the exact problems that each of those departments had and you've determined it no doubt required the draconian so called solutions that have made law enforcement there all but in-effective.


why has federal oversight made law enforcement ineffective? los angeles is experiencing a decline in crime from what i hear. maybe im wrong.

ive been a cop long enough to know that not all cops are right. cops *** up. some departments officers *** up more often than others. my point is that if you do your job in good faith, federal oversight shouldnt be a problem. the only people who see scrutiny as a problem are the ones who either really dont know how to do their jobs or have something to hide.

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Bart
if those departments werent so screwed up, they wouldnt have anything to worry about. my department is lucky to have the chief we have. he came in and cleaned house so we wouldnt have to be subject to oversight. if the admin at LAPD cleaned house before being forced to, they wouldnt be in the position theyre in now.

I wouldn't want to be so bold as to make a judgment on any dept that I'm not personally familiar with.

First, I take just about anything I read in the media with a grain of salt. There are far too many reporters and editors out there with agendas. I'm not saying they're always wrong, but they're not always forthcoming with the whole truth either.

Also, I don't trust the federal government not to do a lot of things for purely political purposes. I'm not convinced some consent decrees didn't come about because of someone owed someone something politically.

And we have a very vocal minority here in Portland that is radical to say the least. They are continually making trumped up or sometimes completely unfounded accusations about police officers, either as a group or individuals. I would certainly hate for my career to be be jepordized by someone taking the word of these creeps. And I finished my career with zero sustained complaints in IA. But I know I made some dirtbags really angry over my time and several did file bogus IA complaints. If unfounded complaints would get you transfered or fired, I'd have been gone. And I did my job by the rules, I wasn't a loose cannon.

[nyc]

Originally posted by Bart
why has federal oversight made law enforcement ineffective? los angeles is experiencing a decline in crime from what i hear. maybe im wrong.

I agree with your general sentiment that some departments are screwed up and need cleaning up, but in the case of the LAPD the consent decree is only serving to waste resources and hamper effective reforms. They're already cash strapped as it is; freeing up those millions could put extra officers on the street where they are needed. Bill Bratton has an excellent track record and can be trusted to do what is necessary without wasteful and useless federal oversight. He cleaned up the Boston transit PD, NYC Transit PD (back when it was still a separate entity), and NYPD. I would assume he will able to do the same with LAPD if people would quit trying to back seat control the department with consent decrees.