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Fordfreak
03-24-2004, 11:09 AM
Michigan law states all firearms must be unloaded, encased and as unaccessible as possible when transporting them in a motor vehicle(including ATV's).

A friend and I both recieved misdemeanor tickets from a Conservation Officer regarding this law while hunting on his property last November. My friend was obviously in violation of this law, he had his rifle slung over his shoulder while riding his four wheeler out of the woods after the hunt.

I however, had my rifle in its proper secured case mounted to my ATV. The problem came when I told the CO that I had my handgun in a small gear bag unloaded and secured to the back of my machine.I think she nearly turned inside trying to grab the bag and get it off my machine so she could check it. She said the hand gun had to be carried in a commercially manufactured case designed for firearms, and wrote me the $120.00 misdemeanor ticket for having an improperly cased weapon on a motor vehicle.What gives with this scenario??? I have seen store bought weapon cases that were no different than the gear bag I was in possesion of.She did not take the weapon from me, just wrote us our tickets and left in a hurry. I didnt even have to go to court over the incident.

Is this misdemeanor going to hurt my chances of getting into the police academy? I know if it shows up on my criminal record it will keep me from aquiring a ccw permit in the State Of Michigan.
Thanks for reading this post and any info. would be appreciated.
Fordfreak

enforcer13
03-24-2004, 11:29 AM
when u fill out the aplacation it will ask about any crimes you have committed but it also says each case will be concidered individually, and im pretty sure what you did wasnt realy that bad.;)

ftlaudcop
03-24-2004, 01:34 PM
i guess if you have a section on your application that ask's if you were summoned into court, i suppose you may have to disclose it.
if ya were not fingerprinted you were not arrested.
also if you were on private property, usually they check for certain permits for hunting etc,but thats about all i would bother with.

Valor55
03-24-2004, 02:07 PM
Why don't you go to court and show the case to the judge and explain that is similar to other cases provided with guns?

Contact
03-24-2004, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Valor55
Why don't you go to court and show the case to the judge and explain that is similar to other cases provided with guns?

Valor, I believe he mentioned he had the gun in a gear bag, in my opinion, sounds like a duffle bag, which is very different from a lockable case, with padding on both sides so the gun can not slide around.

Ford Freak, It isn't that you had the weapon illegally, just the method of carrying it was not approved. That's why she did not take the weapon from you and issued you a ticket. I doubt that this will stop you from getting a CCW, since you have to take a CCW class, which covers the proper methods of carry! :D

JB2245
03-24-2004, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by ftlaudcop
if ya were not fingerprinted you were not arrested.

WRONG! In Michigan, if you are stopped and issued a ticket for a misdemeanor violation you are technically under arrest. The officer has the option of releasing you at the scene or taking you to jail.

Valor55
03-24-2004, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Fordfreak
I have seen store bought weapon cases that were no different than the gear bag I was in possesion of.

That's what I meant, why didn't you take it to the judge and back up that claim?

Frank Booth
03-24-2004, 04:33 PM
A friend and I both recieved misdemeanor tickets from a Conservation Officer regarding this law while hunting on his property last November.

I'd fight the ticket if you were on private property......

kirch
03-24-2004, 04:58 PM
I agree that this sounds like one you should take to court and tell your side to the judge. At the very least, you could settle for a lesser charge.

I notice in your post that you "didn't even have to go to court over the incident". Are you saying there is no court date for this? That would be odd.

ftlaudcop
03-24-2004, 07:06 PM
the part i don't get, is your on private property with the land owner,generally the way you transport a weapon is only on public highways, or area's the public we, such as a parking lot, etc.
other than checking for proper hunting permits, the land owner should have told him to take a hike.

Fordfreak
03-24-2004, 07:17 PM
Thanks for the replies so far, its really frustrating not having a foot to stand on in this situation.

I live 12 hours from the property we were hunting when we got the tickets. I live in SE Michigan, and this incident occured in the western part of the upper penninsula of my state.

I think they like writing people from out of area tickets knowing they wont be able to drive the long distances to contest them in court.All I had to do was call the court for the ticket cost then send them the money order, no appearance or anything.

It doesnt state in the rule book that the gun case has to be lockable,or have padding, only that the weapon has to be encased and unacessable to vehicle occupants.

I really wasn't that worried about the whole thing at first. Only after reading the requirments for a ccw permit did I get upset.Improper transportation of a firearm was one of the disqaulifying misdemeanors listed on the ccw application.

Will this misdemeanor even show up on a BI and if so will a department not hire an applicant due to this violation.Id hate to think the 55 college credits I've aquired trying to become a police officer are in vain!!!
Fordfreak

Photogrrlz
03-24-2004, 07:40 PM
In Ohio as well, if you are issued a summons you were under arrest. It is just summons in lieu of arrest...Anywho I dont think you should have a problem with it. As the others said it case in different.

ftlaudcop
03-24-2004, 07:46 PM
i guess if you were issued a summons, you were arrested, but it be hard to prove you were arrested unless they take yr fingerprints in the court room when yr found guilty.

you will no doubt have to give up that info about that case
as the internet has made it easy for a b.i. to do his job and hit data base's.

if ya want a police job come down to fla, it's a growing state,

those northern state seem like they hire 1 officer a year , don't wanna pay ya good money, and then want ya to be superman with 3 degree's.

99% chance of run in n.c.i.c. that incident will not show up
on a criminal history check

Bart
03-24-2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by ftlaudcop
if ya were not fingerprinted you were not arrested.


if i issue somebody an NTA, its still a misdemeanor arrest that requires a mandatory court appearance.

PhilipCal
03-24-2004, 11:35 PM
Have to begin by saying "I wasn't there",but yah,I've got some reservations on your deal.I'm not conversant with Michigan Law regarding carrying,and the private property issue concerns me as well.You didn't mention whether or not you signed an "Appearance,plea and waiver when you sent the fine into the court.If you did,then the citation may have the effect of a conviction for a misdemeanor.If the situation is as you explained,and I have no reason to doubt you,I don't think it will be an issue on a BI.Just be certain to mention it. Good luck!!

Fordfreak
03-25-2004, 06:14 AM
I remember the Conservation Officer making me sign the ticket before she would give my handgun back to me. So I guess that means I admitted to being guilty of the misdemeanor.

In Michigan you cannot even have an uncased weapon in a boat unless the engine is turned off and all momentum from the engine has ceased.As with ATV's the rider has to dismount the machine before any weapons can be uncased to hunt with, even on private land.

Michigan gun laws are the same for public and private lands.They even make the ATV riders where helmets and buy ORV permits when riding on private land.

Fordfreak

kirch
03-25-2004, 04:29 PM
You've explained to my satisfaction why you didn't go to court on this one. For those who aren't getting it, the court date would have required the defendant to make another 12-hour trip just to attend court. I've had a similar situation. I once got a speeding ticket that I thought was a little dicey. But to fight it in court I would have had to take a day off from work and drive 3 hours one way. The amount of money I would have lost from losing a day of work and paying for the gas was less than the citation. So I paid it.

I'm not one of them, but I've run across a few officers that will cite drivers from other parts of the state specifically because it's likely they won't fight it in court. And they casually drop the threat that, if the fine isn't paid, a warrant could be sworn out for them.

As far as the misdemeanor goes, I wouldn' sweat it. Just make sure you bring it up early in the process and explain the circumstances. I'd be surprised if it did you much harm.

Fordfreak
03-25-2004, 10:37 PM
Thanks again for all the replies. I'm just gonna have to keep my fingers crossed this incident isn't going turn around and bite me later. Im definately still going to persue LE cause thats all I can think about.
Fordfreak

Valor55
03-26-2004, 08:22 PM
Contact your local PD and find out how to get your criminal history. Here in VA you can pay a few bucks and get a listing. You'll know whether it's on there or not.

Also talk to recruiters at the agencies you are interested in and find out if this is going to be an automatic disqualifier or it is something they will still consider you with.

You may be able to petition the court to re-open the case and fight it. You'll need to hire a local attorney to handle all the paperwork at the courthouse and then you'll need to make the trip up there for the hearing. That might be worth it if this is going to keep you out of LE...

JB2245
03-26-2004, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Fordfreak
Thanks again for all the replies. I'm just gonna have to keep my fingers crossed this incident isn't going turn around and bite me later. Im definately still going to persue LE cause thats all I can think about.
Fordfreak

If and when you are asked about this, just be honest. The circumstances you've posted really don't seem that any reasonable background investigator would DQ you for it. Just make sure you tell him/her about all the details. And yes, it probably will show up on your criminal history.