Spain Wimps Out to Terrorists

[BrickCop]

First a disclaimer...I never thought we should have went into Iraq in the first place because I just didn't seem them as a clear and present danger/imminent threat. To me we are wasting US soldiers lives and billions and billions of taxpayer dollars on a primitive culture whose people are either too ignorant to embrace, or simply don't want the freedom we are offering them. We should have tripled up the number of troops hunting for Bin Laden in Afghanistan instead IMO.

Having said that terrorists should not dictate the terms of foreign policy/military decisions.

Now in the wake of Spain's train bombing their government almost immediately announces they're pulling out of Iraq by June 30th. That would be like the US withdrawing from the Middle East days after 9/11.

What kind of a message does that send to future terrorists? Cowardice in the face of evil only breeds more it.... IMO.

Just my two cents..........yours?:confused:

[retired]

Originally posted by BRICKCOP
First a disclaimer...I never thought we should have went into Iraq in the first place because I just didn't seem them as a clear and present danger/imminent threat. To me we are wasting US soldiers lives and billions and billions of taxpayer dollars on a primitive culture whose people are either too ignorant to embrace, or simply don't want the freedom we are offering them. We should have tripled up the number of troops hunting for Bin Laden in Afghanistan instead IMO.

Having said that terrorists should not dictate the terms of foreign policy/military decisions.

Now in the wake of Spain's train bombing their government almost immediately announces they're pulling out of Iraq by June 30th. That would be like the US withdrawing from the Middle East days after 9/11.

What kind of a message does that send to future terrorists? Cowardice in the face of evil only breeds more it.... IMO.

Just my two cents..........yours?:confused:

I think that the new government would have withdrawn from Iraq with or without the bombings. The person elected was adamently against the attack on Iraq, and said so on many occasions. I don't think the bombings had anything to do with Spain withdrawing their troops. I think it did have an influence on the outcome of he election.

[Marky Mark]

I agree with retired, Spain's troops, while appreciated, are not strategically significant (like the UK's are). I do think the AlQaeda timed this attack accordingly, since the conservative government has come down hard on suspected terror groups, and a more candyass socialist administration is more likely to give them quarter.

In his book "See No Evil", former CIA officer Robert Baer noted that radical Islamic organizations operated freely in London, largely due to Politically Correct concerns about "tolerating diversity".:rolleyes: They wouldn't even send out an Arabic-fluent agent to collect and read radical newspapers being sold openly on street corners. I see Spain headed down the same road.

[BrickCop]

Spain's military participation is more symbolic than anything, the fact they announce pulling out so soon after the bombings simply sends the wrong message.

retired, I also beleive the newly elected government would have probably pulled them out anyway but the timing will just prove that in this case terrorism worked.

Terrorists 1 Spain 0

Again we should get out of Iraq for opions I listed in other post but as far as the war on terrorism goes most of the world seems content not to get involved under an undeclared appeasement doctrine.

[Cockney Corner]

Well, that's the great thing about living in the West. We have democracy.

As regards Islamic militants operating freely in the UK. I'm sure the concern about upsetting certain communities played a part. However, I imagine the fact that Islamic terrorists weren't actually carrying out atrocities in this country was also a major factor. Let sleeping dogs lie and all that. Short sighted but there you go.

[3/4s]

Although opposition to the war was high in Spain, polls taken right before the bombings indicated the election was going to the incumbents.

Spain has been a big help with intelligence and their navy is with ours intercepting suspicious ships in the Gulf region.

The new Spanish prez elect has stated he's going to rush over here and endorse Kerry.:eek:

[Cockney Corner]

I imagine a foreign politician coming over to endorse a candidate goes down about as well in the US as it would over here,

[rugbyman]

Starter for 10...who can name the new Spanish PM (without looking it up)

exactly.........

[SomeGuy]

Originally posted by 3/4s

The new Spanish prez elect has stated he's going to rush over here and endorse Kerry.:eek:

You have a source for that?

Anyway, I've got to say that the US should follow Spain's lead. Trying to stop terrorism is like trying to stop the drug trade. It just isn't going to happen. Instead, we should focus on getting rid of the causes of terrorism instead of the terrorists themselves. More will just pop up until the motivation for terrorism is removed.

[That Guy]

Instead, we should focus on getting rid of the causes of terrorism instead of the terrorists themselves.

Please explain what and how these causes will change the course. From what I've gathered these terrorits don't like anyone but other Muslims since they are extremists and look at us as "infidels". Now smaller "homegrown" groups like are aganist the gov'ts they live under.

TGY

[6233108]

Originally posted by 3/4s
Although opposition to the war was high in Spain, polls taken right before the bombings indicated the election was going to the incumbents.

Spain has been a big help with intelligence and their navy is with ours intercepting suspicious ships in the Gulf region.

The new Spanish prez elect has stated he's going to rush over here and endorse Kerry.:eek:


Alqeada I imagine are big endorsers of Kerry, probably big campaign contributors too.

[Deniz]

Back to the original question, IMO, Spain just gave the terrorists one of their biggest victories and a reason to plan and execute more similar bombings as well as making it easier for their recruitment. As for the statement on terrorists only liking other muslims, that is not true. Turkey is a secular state with %99 of its population being muslim. They still copped their fair share of the bombings.

IMO %99 of terrorist activity is based on bluff and if what spain did is anything to go by, as far as the they are concerned, they won. I find it frustrating that they made the decision to retreat like that. Good on you Spain!

[retired]

Originally posted by Deniz
Back to the original question, IMO, Spain just gave the terrorists one of their biggest victories and a reason to plan and execute more similar bombings as well as making it easier for their recruitment. As for the statement on terrorists only liking other muslims, that is not true. Turkey is a secular state with %99 of its population being muslim. They still copped their fair share of the bombings.

IMO %99 of terrorist activity is based on bluff and if what spain did is anything to go by, as far as the they are concerned, they won. I find it frustrating that they made the decision to retreat like that. Good on you Spain!

I'm puzzeled, how exactly did Spain retreat, or hand a "victory" to terrorism?

[Deniz]

Originally posted by retired
I'm puzzeled, how exactly did Spain retreat, or hand a "victory" to terrorism?

Its their timing of their announcement. The new government may have wanted to do that, which is fine but anouncing it to international media right after the bombings would have put a big smile on the terrorists face.

Unless its proven that its ETA that did it, which is very debatable at this stage, to the best of my knowledge. In which case, we're discussing something thats purely fictional.

[retired]

Originally posted by Deniz
Its their timing of their announcement. The new government may have wanted to do that, which is fine but anouncing it to international media right after the bombings would have put a big smile on the terrorists face.

Unless its proven that its ETA that did it, which is very debatable at this stage, to the best of my knowledge. In which case, we're discussing something thats purely fictional.

Okay, I must be thick. What announcement did they make that was poor timing, and what was it that the new government wanted to do that they shouldn't have announced to the internationl media?

I'm still not clear on how Spain retreated. What did they retreat from?

[Deniz]

Originally posted by retired
Okay, I must be thick. What announcement did they make that was poor timing, and what was it that the new government wanted to do that they shouldn't have announced to the internationl media?

I'm still not clear on how Spain retreated. What did they retreat from?

I thought I heard the news say that Spain announced it was withdrawing its troops from Iraq, 2 days after the bombings if memory serves correct.

[retired]

Originally posted by Deniz
I thought I heard the news say that Spain announced it was withdrawing its troops from Iraq, 2 days after the bombings if memory serves correct.

I think the new leader said when he takes office he intends to withdraw the troops by June. But he had already opposed the involvement of Spanish troops in Iraq before he was elected. That wasn't a surprise nor was it unexpected, bombing or no bombing.
What I am trying to figure out is why everyone is saying that Spain is a coward, Spain retreats, etc.

[Deniz]

Originally posted by retired
I think the new leader said when he takes office he intends to withdraw the troops by June. But he had already opposed the involvement of Spanish troops in Iraq before he was elected. That wasn't a surprise nor was it unexpected, bombing or no bombing.
What I am trying to figure out is why everyone is saying that Spain is a coward, Spain retreats, etc.

Well, I guess its for the same reason I said it.

I'm only going by how media reflected it. :confused: which leaves me confused.

But that wouldn't be the first time media announced things at certain times for more effect would it..
:rolleyes:

[NSWCop]

Spain used to be a Moslem country.. in fact, it was the Christian revolt that drove the Moors from Spain that directly lead to the Spanish Inquisition! And is probably the reason the Catholic Church is so strong in the country now!

Having said that, it is fair to assume that Spain is probably the only European country that has had direct experience with fanatical Moslems actually running the place.

So, it is not beyond the bounds of probability that the bombings were very surgically placed, if done by Al Queda.

Consider, the bombs went off 2 days before the general elections. The incumbent party was polled to win the elections. The opposition party had a policy of disengagement for Iraq.

2 Days is just enough time for the message to sink in, not enough time for reason to prevail.

So, a country with a historic experience of Moslem conquest, and all it entails (conquest that is..) is emotionally shocked. They don't want to be in Iraq anyway (polls indicated that a vast majority of Spaniards were against the war), so they turn to the person who can stop the bombs and,not so incidently get them out of Iraq.

The only victory that the terrorists can claim is when people make statements to the effect that Spain retreated, etc. That is also part of the strategy.

Give the Spaniards a break !!