Americans

[JohnKelly]

Generally speaking, do you think that the average American is uneducated in international affairs?

JohnKelly
Australia

[Deputy757]

Yes!

[Chief Wiggum]

Yes!

[krj]

Originally posted by JohnKelly
Generally speaking, do you think that the average American is uneducated in international affairs?

JohnKelly
Australia

I agree with the two other posts - but also think that the average American is also uneducated about NATIONAL affairs (if you asked people on the street, I think that more people could identify J-Lo than could identify Donald Rumsfeld). :rolleyes:

On a personal level, I live in a very rural part of middle-Tennessee. The vast majority of people I speak with every day have never lived more than 50 miles from their original birth place - now THAT'S isolationism! Their lives and their world revolve almost completely around their immediate communities. There is SOME awareness of world events (primarily the threat of terror, and our role in trying to combat that threat). But in this area at least, that's about the extent of concern re: world affairs.

I've lived in a number of different countries (including Australia). None of the countries I have lived in before, have proclaimed themselves the "Greatest Nation in the World", as I have heard often since I moved to this country.

I don't KNOW if a superiority complex makes a nation complacent - but when you're the GREATEST, and KNOW that you can bomb the **** out of anything and anybody, is it important to know what's happening in the rest of the world?? When you and your family have job security, a growing portfolio, a growing waistline, 2.5 cars, a 5,000 square foot house, 6 phones and 5 color TV's - is it important to know what's happening in the rest of the world?? Don't know - never gave it a lot of thought until your question - but am openly speculating that most Americans (as long as their personal lives truck along relatively fine) don't feel a strong need to become educated re: world events.

I would suggest that American's lack of awareness re: international affairs could be a combination of:

1. High personal standard of living
2. Superiority complex - or at least an awareness that we have the most and biggest weapons on the block
3. Decreasing educational standards (I have kids in school - no doubt in my mind that what is expected of them in terms of academic performance is WAAAAY below what was expected when I was in school)
4. Busy lives - and news provided primarily from only one source - TV

Like I said - openly speculating on a Saturday afternoon, and definately painting a picture here in very broad strokes.

[Deputy757]

Originally posted by krj
I've lived in a number of different countries (including Australia). None of the countries I have lived in before, have proclaimed themselves the "Greatest Nation in the World", as I have heard often since I moved to this country.

Well, at the risk of sounding pompous and nationalistic...this is the greatest nation in the world. I've also had an opportunity to visit and live in many other nations. I've yet to live anywhere that comes close to providing it's citizens with the opportunities and the freedoms that the USA does. To be sure, we sometimes take advantage of these freedoms and waste the opportunities that are presented, but they are nevertheless there. Case in point, have you ever heard of someone living the British dream, or the Australian dream...or the Chinese dream (I use China because their economy, when it's performance is compared to ours, is exploding)? No, it's always "the American dream" because this is where you can achieve anything you like as long as you are willing to work hard enough to do it! Ok, ok...maybe not anything...after all, a naturalized citizen can't become president but you know what I mean!
Are Americans oblivious to what is going on outside of their little world. Generally, a resounding yes! I mean, if you want to get their attention, knock out their cable for a day or two...then you'll hear some whining! But the great thing about America is that, though slow to anger, once aroused...you'd better be ready to go the distance because that's how far we will take you!

[JohnKelly]

Thanks for your reply Deputy 757, in relation to my question on whether members think that Americans are uneducated in international affairs.

Could you please clarify your response where you say 'Yes' to the question but then go on to ask the question,

"Have you ever heard of someone living the British dream, or the Australian dream or the Chinese dream?"

How can you pose that question to a people who you admit are uneducated in international affairs?

Surely an American who has no idea as to what is happening outside their own town, let alone their own country, is in no position to judge who is living the British, Australian or Chinese dream.

Thanks,

JohnKelly
Australia

[Sentinel]

I disagree. While I do think that the average American is not as knowledgeable about affairs of countries in Europe I think it has more to do with the fact that the USA is practically a continent compared to countries in Europe. I often hear the USA compared to France or Germany but you have to take into consideration that the US is almost as big as all of Europe. To say that people in France are aware of what is going on in Germany is more like saying that people in NY are aware of what is going on in NJ. The countries of Europe are more like the states of the USA. They are even getting a common currency. Soon it will be the United States of Europe.

As an example of this I ask how aware are Europeans of life in the US? From the Europeans I have met ... NOT VERY. They may be vastly more knowledgeable about the goings on in a country that neighbors them but they are not that aware of a country that is a world away. In a similar fashion Americans are very aware of what is going on in a neighboring state but are not that knowledgeable about a country a world away.

To draw more from it than simple geography is just plain old fashioned American bashing.

[retdetsgt]

America can be rough on people. We don't guarantee you a job, a place to live nor so we even guarantee you an income like many Europeon countries. But we don't take half or better of your pay either. You're given the right to succeed or fail based on your own ingenuity, hard work and of course, luck. Engineers want to come to the US. The unemployable want to go to Europe. There's a reason.

Several Europeon countries, France and Germany included are suffering economically because of their socialistic government. With high immigration, the new unemployable people are enjoying the bounty without working. Even taking the majority of the working people's earnings, 11% or higher unemployment will bankrupt an economy like that. France and Germany are now in default of the very economic rules they were so hardnosed on for other countries.

Europe has always taken the course that the people are highly taxed and in return, the government takes care of them. This goes back to the feudal system. The kings, lords, etc taxed the peasants and in return, took care of them in context of the times. It wasn't a leap to continue that system in a democracy.

Americans have fought heavy taxation from it's birth. We believe the government is not responsible for your every need. Initially, all the government did was protect from foreign invaders. It's gone beyond that now, but not nearly to the extent as Europe. Conversely, if you do well, you get to keep most of your wealth. We gripe when we get taxed 28% of our NET income. We would never tolerate the taxing of 50% or more of the gross. You're allowed to prosper here regardless of class. But class is another problem in Europe I won't get into.

As far as the greatest country in the world, let's look back at WWI and WWII. Britain was about to get it's butt kicked both times until we stepped in. The two countries of France and Britain couldn't handle the one country of Germany. In WWII, we were supplying the UK with a great deal of it's war material and it still wasn't doing well. Our industries converted to war quickly and we played more than a major part in the defeat of both Germany and Japan.

We're blessed with a lot of great agricultural land. We feed a lot of the world's population. Whenever there's a natural disaster just about anywhere in the world, we send assistance. Nobody came to our aid during the California wildfires or the earthquakes. We send out over 19 billion dollars worth of food aid per year. 11 billion in cash. Who else does that?

Yeah, it's an American Dream because you can rise out of poverty and do well for yourself easier in this country than most any other, if you're willing to put out what's necessary. You're not stuck in one economic class.

[JohnKelly]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
America can be rough on people. We don't guarantee you a job, a place to live nor so we even guarantee you an income like many Europeon countries. But we don't take half or better of your pay either. You're given the right to succeed or fail based on your own ingenuity, hard work and of course, luck. Engineers want to come to the US. The unemployable want to go to Europe. There's a reason.

Several Europeon countries, France and Germany included are suffering economically because of their socialistic government. With high immigration, the new unemployable people are enjoying the bounty without working. Even taking the majority of the working people's earnings, 11% or higher unemployment will bankrupt an economy like that. France and Germany are now in default of the very economic rules they were so hardnosed on for other countries.

Europe has always taken the course that the people are highly taxed and in return, the government takes care of them. This goes back to the feudal system. The kings, lords, etc taxed the peasants and in return, took care of them in context of the times. It wasn't a leap to continue that system in a democracy.

Americans have fought heavy taxation from it's birth. We believe the government is not responsible for your every need. Initially, all the government did was protect from foreign invaders. It's gone beyond that now, but not nearly to the extent as Europe. Conversely, if you do well, you get to keep most of your wealth. We gripe when we get taxed 28% of our NET income. We would never tolerate the taxing of 50% or more of the gross. You're allowed to prosper here regardless of class. But class is another problem in Europe I won't get into.

As far as the greatest country in the world, let's look back at WWI and WWII. Britain was about to get it's butt kicked both times until we stepped in. The two countries of France and Britain couldn't handle the one country of Germany. In WWII, we were supplying the UK with a great deal of it's war material and it still wasn't doing well. Our industries converted to war quickly and we played more than a major part in the defeat of both Germany and Japan.

We're blessed with a lot of great agricultural land. We feed a lot of the world's population. Whenever there's a natural disaster just about anywhere in the world, we send assistance. Nobody came to our aid during the California wildfires or the earthquakes. We send out over 19 billion dollars worth of food aid per year. 11 billion in cash. Who else does that?

Yeah, it's an American Dream because you can rise out of poverty and do well for yourself easier in this country than most any other, if you're willing to put out what's necessary. You're not stuck in one economic class.

That's good Mate, but my question was,

"Generally speaking, do you think that the average American is uneducated in international affairs?"

Oh and by the way, Australia and New Zealand sent Firefighters to assist in the last California Fires.

Cheers,

JohnKelly
Australia

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by JohnKelly
That's good Mate, but my question was,

"Generally speaking, do you think that the average American is uneducated in international affairs?"

Oh and by the way, Australia and New Zealand sent Firefighters to assist in the last California Fires.



Australia and N.Z. have always had a different relationship with the US than Europe. Maybe we're all the "step children" of the Brits!:D

To your question, probably. Most people are more concerned with hacking out a living and taking care of their families. The political parties always try to fan the flames about it, but in the end, no one really cares until it affects them via job losses, their family in the military, etc.

I think the majority of Americans are pretty centered politically. You only hear from the fanatics on both sides and the press feeds it too. The average person couldn't care less what was going on in Europe, Asia, etc.

How about the average Australian? Are they fairly educated on it?

[pjam3]

The one poster said it best, most people are familiar with the state next to them and the states around them, but maybe not experts on work affairs.

In Europe, most nations are not that familiar with what really goes on in the United States, Canada, Mexico, every other country.

France might know about Germany because they have a history, they are close to one another.


And in general, most nations will trash America and it's citizens, military, politics, etc, yet when they need help, who is the first people they call on?

America has become a place of specialist. Most american citizens do not need to be experts on foreign and world affairs because we have people who do that.

And if you have lived or visited some countries overseas, you will know that some nations Media is totally controlled by the politicians and government. So what those citizens know about other countries is what the politicians want them to know.

There is no freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press in many nations. So how can you say American's no less then everybody else, when in fact, in many nations, the people only know what their government wants them to. People have been killed in certain countries for trying to spread religion, truths, etc.

American may have problems, but there isn't any other nation that has as many various cultures as ours. And many of our citizens, immigrants, etc know at least a little about world affairs. The biggest is, they'd rather be in american then where they came from.

[Sentinel]

And one more thing I think that a lot of other countries gloss over ... I always hear people from other countries saying "Americans are so ..." The truth is that the USA is not Americans. We are all the countries of the world. When people talk badly about the US they are talking about themselves as we are made up of all the other countries of the world (except of course for native americans who I guess are the only real americans).

Remember that most people of other countries are there by birth but most Americans are American by choice. We or our ancesotrs came here and built this place from the ground up. So when people from England say that "Americans are so stupid" or similar, they don't realize that by saying that they are including the people from their own country that just came here.

Being an American is more a choice or state of mind then a designation on a map. That's another reason the US is not that crazy about the UN. We are the UN. The countries of the world are better represented here by a larger population than in the representavites in the UN.

[JohnKelly]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
Australia and N.Z. have always had a different relationship with the US than Europe. Maybe we're all the "step children" of the Brits!:D

To your question, probably. Most people are more concerned with hacking out a living and taking care of their families. The political parties always try to fan the flames about it, but in the end, no one really cares until it affects them via job losses, their family in the military, etc.

I think the majority of Americans are pretty centered politically. You only hear from the fanatics on both sides and the press feeds it too. The average person couldn't care less what was going on in Europe, Asia, etc.

How about the average Australian? Are they fairly educated on it?

Thanks for the replies and in particular krj.

Yes retdetsgt, in my opinion the average Australian is fairly well up on international affairs and in fact are very interested in international affairs, especially if we play against that country in some form of competitive sport.

The average Australian would for example know far far more about America than the average American would know about Australia.

I think that the big difference is that we want to know about the outside world, whereas the Americans don't.

However, having said that, Australians like Americans are mostly concerned with as you say, "Hacking out a living and caring for their familes." I could also say that the average Australian would care less about their politicians than the Americans do of theirs. Most Australians believe that we have in fact far too many politicians.

It is true that Australia and NZ have a different relationship with the US than Europe and I guess it is because we came to these new lands as pioneers and settlers. Albeit that some of the early Australian settlers really did not have much choice in the matter.

Australia continues to have a close relationship with Britain and many of the older generation Australians still regard Britain as the mother country and that is why on the top left hand corner of our National Flag is the Union Jack and as the saying goes, "We have the old flag to show where we've been and the stars to show us where we're going"

There may be some US members of this Website who are old enough to have served or worked with Australians and who would be aware of the Australian sense of humour, it can sometimes appear insulting but in actual fact, it is a sign of mateship. I have served and worked with the Old Yank or sometimes referred to as the Septic Tanks (meaning full of BS) and I have never seen any anomosity between the two groups, they soldier well together, albeit a lot differently.

Anyhow, I've wandered on a bit but it was my way of answering your question.

Cheers,

JohnKelly
Australia

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by JohnKelly


There may be some US members of this Website who are old enough to have served or worked with Australians and who would be aware of the Australian sense of humour, it can sometimes appear insulting but in actual fact, it is a sign of mateship.

I'm old enough and I did in Vietnam. Actually the only place I ran into Aussies was bars, not the bush.... Wild times! I still have a couple of scars.:D

Another difference is we don't compete internationally all that much in sports. I suppose we do, but people are more interested in the intra country games such as American football, baseball and basketball. Soccer is a little popular, but not that much. It's kind of like the metric system, people are trying to push it on an uninterested public. Rugby, LaCrosse, etc. are primarily played at Ivy League schools in the East. No one else really cares about them.

Although we have a good relationship with the UK, we are the only former colony that had to fight to get independence from them, twice. It was granted to all others without a fight. And our population is not primarily British descent. Although the founders were, it changed quite quickly over the centuries. In fact, it's predicted that in not that many years, Europeon descendants will be in the minority in this country.

Where the majority of Europeons possess passports, only about 20% of Americans get them. A person can do a lot of traveling in this country and not see all of it. And a lot of our fathers and grandfathers went to Europe, but weren't interested enough to go back.

I think Americans are more interested in our politicians because this country does have a major impact on the rest of the world. Opinion is divided between those people who think we should be the world's policeman and those who want us to back out and let the rest of the world take care of itself. I guess I'm more of the latter. I see no reason for NATO to exist any longer and we should pull out. If we could get rid of our dependence on oil, we could let the Mideast go to hell all by itself. But I'm getting off on a tangent, sorry.
Jim

[JohnKelly]

Originally posted by Sentinel
And one more thing I think that a lot of other countries gloss over ... I always hear people from other countries saying "Americans are so ..." The truth is that the USA is not Americans. We are all the countries of the world. When people talk badly about the US they are talking about themselves as we are made up of all the other countries of the world (except of course for native americans who I guess are the only real americans).

Remember that most people of other countries are there by birth but most Americans are American by choice. We or our ancesotrs came here and built this place from the ground up. So when people from England say that "Americans are so stupid" or similar, they don't realize that by saying that they are including the people from their own country that just came here.

Being an American is more a choice or state of mind then a designation on a map. That's another reason the US is not that crazy about the UN. We are the UN. The countries of the world are better represented here by a larger population than in the representavites in the UN.

Its true what you say Sentinel, America is made up of people from countries from all over the world. Is'nt it written somewhere in the US about "Give me your poor......

I am very interested in the Irish American side of things and I love reading the history on the influence the Irish had on the major Police Forces of the US.

Australia is the same as the US in a lot of ways and indeed we too are made up of people from many parts of the world.

Australia or should I say the weak politicans is/are however making a mistake in promoting this so called multiculturism. I believe that if you come to a new land then you should be as one nation, fine, retain and cherish your heritage but be as one nation and adopt your new country.

I see that you make the mistake of many people from the US, in that you refer to all people who are from the United Kingdom or even Ireland as English; not so, but as the Aussies say, "How can I tell the difference between the English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh? You all look and sound the same to me.
;)

On another Website, a young American asked a question about the Royal Marines and he referred to them as the English Marines. It was explained to him that England does not have any Marines but Britain does.

Anyhow, there you go, a bit of an exchange which I hope will add to our knowledge of each other.

Cheers,

JohnKelly
Australia

[nickg]

Originally posted by JohnKelly
Generally speaking, do you think that the average American is uneducated in international affairs?

JohnKelly
Australia

yeah...everyone except the hollywood limosine left wing liberals who think they know foreign policy because they played a politician in a movie once. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by JohnKelly


Australia or should I say the weak politicans is/are however making a mistake in promoting this so called multiculturism. I believe that if you come to a new land then you should be as one nation, fine, retain and cherish your heritage but be as one nation and adopt your new country.



When I was young, I recall reading that at that time, Australia would only allow immigration of white people. Was that true?

[krj]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
When I was young, I recall reading that at that time, Australia would only allow immigration of white people. Was that true?

When we lived in England my family had to have photographs taken of us all, to prove that we were white enough to immigrate to Australia. That was in the late 1960's.

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by JohnKelly
It

Australia or should I say the weak politicans is/are however making a mistake in promoting this so called multiculturism. I believe that if you come to a new land then you should be as one nation, fine, retain and cherish your heritage but be as one nation and adopt your new country.



Which exactly why things like Emerald Societies within police depts are a bad idea. In fact, any suborganization is dangerous. When one member reaches rank, it's natural for them to "take care of" their own.

My father in law is a second generation Irish Catholic and a retired journeyman plumber. He's complained to me more than I wanted to listen about Masons within his union. If a Mason is appointed foreman of a job, the non Masons get the crummy jobs. And there are a lot of crummy plumbing jobs. The Masons on the crew get the dryer, easier ones.

[JohnKelly]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
When I was young, I recall reading that at that time, Australia would only allow immigration of white people. Was that true?

Yes that was true. It was called The White Australia Policy and was in force up until around the early 1970's.

JohnKelly
Australia

[VetWannabeCop]

Probably so but we have our strong points like space travel and medical advancements.

[krj]

And don't forget Dollywood :D



(Reference for our international friends - Dollywood is an amusement park in eastern TN owned by Dolly Parton)

[Sentinel]

One more thing I just thought of too. Perhaps I, as an American , is not that aware of what is going on in SriLanka ... but then again ... is anything of importance going on in SriLanka that I should know about? ;)
I guess what I'm saying in a joking way is that I think that a decent percentage of Americans are aware of the major issues of the world. Perhaps not the minor issues and not of all countries but I think if asked a good portion would know enough.

At least as compared to other countries. I find it hard to believe that a grape farmer in France that works on his fields all day is a scholar while all Americans are doofuses. I don't think the average rice farmer in Indonesia is a world class debater as opposed to a American lawyer.

[VetWannabeCop]

You know it amazes me that some of our International friends on this website boast how worldly they are and understand everyone and are cautious about saying rude things to people not from their country. Just like our last post on how non-Americans are upset about Americans boasting how great their country is, but then post questions like this. Like I have said before it is one more mark to me that Americans aren't the rude ones it is Australians and Europeans. But you know since we as Americans do hold our diversity as a good point and work with it. I know that it is just some Aussies and some Europeans that feel insecure about their country and say things like this about a country they feel they want their country to be like.

[PC August]

While I don't think the 'Americans' threads you refer to were necessary or proved anything, I think it's a bit much to suggest that Aussies and Europeans are just jealous and want their country to be like the States. I suspect they're perfectly content, or as much as anyone is.

You must not be a cop, you're way too sensitive.

[VetWannabeCop]

And you must not be a LEO either or a very poor one. You can't read what I have posted. I wasn't the sensitive one that got on this website crying that I am tired of Americans saying how great their country is or ignorant like this thread in being selective on what nation is the uneducated in International affairs and not realizing that people from all over are probably the same in that you have weaknesses and strong points in all of the people in your country. In the thread on where I believe it was John Kelley again, he was upset that Americans are to boastful (braggarts(Leigh)?) about their country and not being aware of the International members and then post stuff like this thread. And I threw out that it is some Aussies and some Europeans must be jealous in referring to the ones that post threads like this one and the one in the past. So a bad trait for a police officer is being clueless of what is really going on PC August.

[PC August]

Listen Dummy,

If it bugs you so much just ignore it. If it is interesting, comment on it. It's just an internet forum, that's all. I SAID I thought John Kelly's posts were unnecessary. They were. Big deal.

Once again you show your sensitivity by crying and bawling out here. You sound like you're 4 years old. Maybe you are, either way you wouldn't last 10 minutes on the streets.

And if I'm not an LEO someone forgot to tell the city. They keep sending me a cheque every two weeks and letting me sign out their blue and white cars. Go figure.

[jarhead6073]

I don't know about anyone else but I have a hard time gauging the American public. Sometimes I think they're informed, then I watch Leno or 'Street Smarts' and realize how stupid some people are. I'm no expert in foreign affairs but I'm a better than average history student and try to keep up to date on major political and cultural news. I'm especially interested in how the EU is trying to force itself on the European populace. I fully expect to see an attempt at a "United States of Eurpe" within the decade. Maybe 20 years if the EU gets slammed in the next national elections.

I would say that more Americans aren't informed about world events because Americans are so unaffected by what happens around the world. The vast prosperitey of America allows people to go about their lives and never worry about what happens outside of our borders. That's why every time we go to war we have to break out the globes to see who the hell we're talking about.

[Sentinel]

That is a very good point jarhead6073. The French could be very aware of what happens politically in say Germany because something that happens in Germany could have a very severe impact on life in France. Those countries are very interconnected in many ways. However here in the USA we are very insulated against things in other countries changing life here. It would have to be on a grand scale to have an effect here.

[VetWannabeCop]

Ok PC August. Whatever you say. I have read some of your posts and you are a man of your words and never reply back to anyone when you read something you dislike. You may be getting a check but that doesn't qualify you as a good cop. I am 4 years old? Whew! Sounds like some Mature name calling. Grow up PC August. I have only replied back to them to point out the fact they have been upset about some americans posting certain things then coming back and doing the same thing they were upset about. I don't see that as Bawling. I see it as pointing out facts something you are clueless about. I wouldn't last 10 minutes in the streets? Yeah right. If you can, it leaves me with no doubt that I could do it easily.

[PC August]

Originally posted by VetWannabeCop
I wouldn't last 10 minutes in the streets? Yeah right. If you can, it leaves me with no doubt that I could do it easily.

You're wrong. You wouldn't.

[Magnum314]

Deleted for privacy issues by Mag.

[6233108]

Originally posted by Magnum314
A Marine friend put it best when he told me, "If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin."

When it comes to life and death there ain't no such thing called cheating. It's called survival, anything goes. Your Marine friend probably knows this all to well.

[jarhead6073]

Originally posted by Magnum314
I have traveled to European countries and at times am incredible embarrassed by my fellow Americans behavior while on foreign soul and find it no surprise why we are so despised.

Americans hardly have the boorish behavior market cornered. I've seen some Germans who would give any American a run for their money when it comes to being obnoxious. Some Canadians and Japanese too for that matter. The French I've met were OK, nice enough though there was plenty of nationalist ego on both sides to make for interesting conversation. By far the nicest people I've met have been from Great Britian (Scottish, English, and Welsh), an Irishman too. The absolute rudest I would have to say were the Canadians I met in Thailand and Japan. I'm sure there are plenty of great Canadians but most of the ones I've met personally were terrible people.