check list for evaluating new pistol

[Cagney]

Anyone have a check list you use for evaluating a new pistol when you try it out at the range? I don't have enough shoot experience to be comparing my accuracy, for example, to my favorite pistol.

[J.DIXON]

Narrow the requirements down a little for me. Is this going to be an on duty or off duty weapon? Does it matter if it's a revolver or auto,and what caliber were you considering?

[Cagney]

It is for my academy training and then may serve as my duty weapon, if my hiring department will let me use it and I still like it. We've been given a list to choose from. I'd never shot a pistol until this week, so I don't have experience to use as a comparison.
Before I get lost in trying out a bunch of pistols and not being able to recall what I liked and didn't like, I figured I should start making some notes.

So far I've shot the Glock 19 and the Sig 239. (I got the list after shooting the Sig 239 and it isn't on the list from which I must choose.) However, the Sig seemed to have more recoil. After one swiming week of looking at guns, I like the most simplistic. Price isn't an issue, but I hate to spend a lot of money for something I'm not sure is a great gun for me.

When I'm thinking about a checklist, I'm thinking about things like:
1) Fire several rounds in rapid succession. This seemed to be a way to show me how much the gun was moving around -- or my inability at this point to hold it still. :( It didn't occur to me to shoot the Glock several times quickly, as it was the first time I'd ever shot. I was thinking that those of you with lots of experience might have suggestions about what to make note of.

I'm only looking at 9mm. It must be a semi-automatic. I think I'd prefer a Double Action Only pistol. I'm a small framed woman so low weight and small size are considerations for me.

In case it matters, here's the list:

"Semi-automatic

Glock: 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 31, 32, 34, 35
Sig Sauer: 220, 225, 259, 228, 226, 229
Smith and Wesson: 39 series, 59 series, 909, 910, SW 99
Berreta: 92FS
H&K USP: 9mm, .45 no variant 7
Rupert P95
Accepted caliber's: 9mm, 10mm, .357, .40, .45
No weapon labled 'SUB-COMPACT' is accepted, regardless of brand."

I've looked at the SW99 (it has a adjustable grips which I liked) and the H&K USP. The range has both of these; I plan to shoot them tomorrow.

[FedDC]

From that list, I would gladly choose a Sig 226 in .40 or 9mm. Behind that, I love my Beretta 92. It is the smoothest firearm that I have ever felt and rivals many of the custom 1911s that I have handled. I Recomend the Sig and here is why: RELIABILITY! You will never find a gun that is more reliable than the sigs. It is just that simple. The SEALs use the 226 for a reason, you can beat it and sink it in the ocean for a month, pull it out and it will fire. It is also super durable and will last for years and years, something that can not be said about the plastic pistols. For a new shooter, the sig is simple...no external safety to mess with. Just pull and shoot. I carry a sig and have over 12K through my personal weapon. It has NEVER Jammed or failed to fire. That is amazing compared to what I have experienced with other pistols.

Stay away from Glocks. I know I will get flamed for this, but seriously...there is a reason that the spec ops guys, FBI HRT, USMS SOG, and LAPD SWAT all went with a metal framed gun. They are just more durable. Glocks "Torture" test is a joke in comparison to what the military put the 92s through. Glocks have a great PD dept and they are "Sexy" since all the rap songs sing about them, but they are not the most reliable or durable. They are ok, but not the best. And yes, my agency does issue glocks and I have one assigned to me, but I will never carry it again after it's frame recall and its mag follower failures...and the sights falling off (No they weren't plastic)...and the mag catch getting eaten by sand from a training area...I could go on and on about our disposable tupperware guns.

Go with the sig. PM me of you need a good price. I know a guy that sells them super cheap.

[FedDC]

One more thing, if you are going to get good, you have to shoot more than just your duty weapon. Buy and inexpensive 22 pistol like a Ruger and shoot it a lot. The ammo is less $ and it has no recoil to cause flinch or any other issues. It will make you a much better shot.

[LPDtactical]

I couldn't agree more with the Sig P226. I have a 226 assigned as my duty weapon, and also have a 226 assigned as my SWAT pistol. both are in 9mm. I have shot just about every pistol imaginable, and haven't found one that I like better than the Sig. I even own a glock, and carry it as a BUG. Glocks are nice, and I wouldn't sell mine for $1000, but it doesn't compare to the reliability and accuracy I get with the Sig. I have put COUNTLESS rounds through both of my Sigs, and I have never had a malfunction (other than ammo related) under even the worst conditions.

[J.DIXON]

Another vote for the Sig. I carried a P220 45acp and loved it. If I could carry a Sig on duty,the P220 would be it. As far as what I think is the best Sig on the market,the P229 .40cal wins hands down. The size of the P229 is large enough for duty carry (12 round mags),yet small enough to be easily concealed off duty. It is the most accurate of all the Sigs. It has a decent chambering in the .40,which IMHO is the smallest round you should consider for duty use. The recoil difference in a 9mm and a .40cal is not enough to notice,so go with a .40. The 9mm is not known for its great stopping power.

Any of the gunmakers and all of the calibers (with exception of the 9mm)that you listed will make a good duty weapon no matter which one you choose. Just stay away from the Ruger P series. Ruger makes great revolvers,but their auto's flat suck.

[flatbadge]

I like My glock 22. We carry 185 grain federal rounds and I can tell you they work.

[KL]

Another vote for the Sig. I used to carry the P229 in .40 and I know guys who carried the P226 in 9mm. Very well regarded! I don't think you will have anyone question your choice. The only reason I could see to not go for a Sig would be cost, which you said is not an issue.

[nightsniper]

CZ-100
9x19mm, or .40 cal.
http://www.world.guns.ru/handguns/cz100.jpg

Sig Pro
9mm, or .40cal
http://www.world.guns.ru/handguns/sigpro.jpg

CZ-G2000
9mm. or .40cal
http://www.world.guns.ru/handguns/cz-g2000.jpg

But I like this better:D
Colt "Python Elite"
.357 Magnum
6 rounds mag.
http://www.world.guns.ru/handguns/colt_python_elite.jpg

[Delta_V]

You really need to shoot several of those pistols and then find out which ones work better for YOU. Make sure the gun feels good in your hands. Everyone has posted great information about SiGs. I love my 226, however it's a full-size gun and depending on how large your hands are, you may feel more comfortable with a 229 or 228. Although they're both great guns, I'd stay away from the 225 and 220 simply because of the fact that they only carry eight rounds (like the 239). The one thing that you have to remember about SiGs is that you have to take care of it. Especially if you live in a humid or coastal environment, SiGs are more prone to rusting than many other of those models. You will have to clean it pretty regularly.

You say that you might want a DAO weapon, so you may want to look at Glocks or an HK USP with the new LEM trigger. These two manufacturers make DAO pistols (although Glock calls it 'safe action') with lighter trigger pulls than most others. With a DAO SiG, you're going to consistantly have about a 10.5lb. trigger pull on every shot. Even with a lot of practice and training, that can still effect your accuracy. With a Glock or LEM USP, it should only be around six or seven pounds. It is possible to reduce the trigger pull of a firearm through gunsmithing, however many departments frown upon officers having any trigger work done to their duty weapons. Personally, I feel no need to go with a DAO gun. Your firearms intructors will train you in making the transition from DA to SA, and there is no greater chance of an AD from a DA/SA gun as their is from a DAO gun.

I didn't see it on the list, but the HK P2000 is supposed to be an excellent gun, although I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. It's a smaller variant of the USP, holds 13+1 rounds, and has the LEM trigger. You might see if the academy people would add it to the list, seeing as it's a new gun they may just not know about it.

And nightsniper, the SigPro is a joke. I cannot believe that the firearm even has the SiG name on it. It has a lousy trigger compared to other SiGs, has terrible balance, and is no where as accurate as a P226 or 229. SiG should never have gotten into the 'cheap plastic gun' market.

[nightsniper]

www.world.guns.ru
select english version and check out that joke "SigPro"...

Type: Double Action or Double Action Only
Chamber: 9x19mm Para, .40 S&W
Weight unloaded: 700g
Length: 190mm
Barrel length: 99mm
Capacity: 15 (9mm) or 12 (.40) rounds


This handgun is the first polymer frame one from SIG-Sauer. It has one-piece, integral fire control unit that is easily converted from DA/SA to DAO without the use of special tools. Also this gun featured patented firing pin safety and and all-stainless-steel slide. Interchangeable grips provide both comfort and control. Reports says that this handgun is very accurate, reliable and comfortable, as one may suspect from SIG-Sauer firearm.
Technically, it is a recoil-operated, locked breech firearm with locking principle similar to other SIG-Sauer handguns such as P229.

:p

[Delta_V]

nightsniper,

I am well aware of the specifications of the SigPro and fail to see any point to your previous post. I've owned a SigPro. I put about two thousand rounds through it before I decided that it was a subpar pistol that does not represent what the SiG line is known for. The guide rod and recoil spring are not as durable as the ones in the classic pistols, the trigger isn't as smooth, not to mention the gun has worse balance than any other polymer framed pistol I've held. I know other people who were disappointed with the SigPro. Have you owned a SigPro, or even SHOT a SigPro? Have you owned and shot other models in SiG's classic line to compare them? My guess is that since you're in Canada, that's probably a negative.

Also, do you have shooting any of the other firearms you pictured? How many of those have you owned? Do you have YOUR OWN opinion on the SigPro or any of these other guns that is based upon YOUR experiences, or do you just believe everything you read on internet firearms sites and in gun magazines?

And by the way, your above post has some misinformation about the SigPro. The SP2340 is available in .40 AND in .357SIG.

[TheCollective]

Cagney Whereabouts in TX are you? If you are close to College Station (where I live) I would strongly recomend Champion Firearms. They have a wonderful indoor shooting range and very helpful personnel to help you with your selection. No I don't work there but my experience there has always been top-notch.

Personally, I would go with the Sig 229 (my wife's current favorite and object of lust) or the Glock 19. I personally carry a G19, my wife carries a G27 (subcompact 40 cal) but she REALLY wants a 229.

The 229 we recently shot in 357 Sig was phenomonal. Trigger was smooth with a clean break. Recoil was little to moderate. Although 357 Sig has WAY too much muzzle flash for me to use as a defensive cartridge, the gun shot very well. Since the 357 Sig cartridge is very similar to 40S&W, I think the 229 in 40 would be very similar to the gun we shot.

If you haven't yet, shoot a G23 (40 cal same size as 19). Recoil is moderate and you get 13+1 vs. 12+1 in the 229.

H&K guns seem to be good but recoil on the USP 40 I shot recently was pretty snappy compared to a 229. More muzzle flip than I liked.

Whatever you choose be sure you try all of your options and don't let other people's opinions influence your final decision, because in the end its YOUR butt on the line.

[nightsniper]

2 PatrickM98
"SigPro" - no experience
"CZ-100" - YES
"CZ G2000" - YES
"Colt Python Elite" - YES (and also with Colt 1853 officer model, black powder load)

And also have an experience with next weapons systems:
AR-15, BROWNING, BERETTA (9mm, .40cal), S&W (.22), Luger 9mm, Colt 1911, Glock 9mm, .40 cal, 45 cal, OSR-.22 cal, AK-47, AK-105 (5,45mm), AKM (7,62mm), SVD (7,62x54mm), Sub-machine gun KEDR - 9mm, ALF - 9mm, VSK-12,7 mm, PM-9mm, TT-7,62mm, all modifycations shotguns from different countrys, SKS-7,62mm carbine, M21 (.308), full auto APS - 9mm. And 2 shots from 64mm anti-tank system.
http://www.nightsniper666.nightmail.ru/MY%20%20PHOTO%20%20ALBUM./
I do not have photos with some russian weapons, because that places prohibited from photographing it.

About experiense - thousands rounds :rolleyes:
Where I got all that weapons systems? You see, my father was a kolonel of Russian special police.:) He is teaching me all this:rolleyes: Here I have excellent instructor and I go on my training.

About ownering. My father every time saying me:"Never holding any weapons at home, except duty weapon". Why? That is a secret;)

I had BIG experiense from all ****ing world. Monholia (border with China), Russia, Ukraine, Canada and who knows what will be next...( I hope I staying in Canada) Maybe, if in police after 1-2 years well be boring, I`ll apply to Canadian army (airborne), and after 3 years well join to special force.:confused:

[krj]

Nightsniper - there is NO Canadian Airborne anymore. Too bad - I think you might have gotten along well with some of them. :rolleyes:

[nightsniper]

Queen Own Rifles, airborne division:p

[krj]

You're correct - Queens' Own has an airborne division. QOR is a reserve infantry unit (not reg. forces) with a small (very small) airborne contingency. I'm not gonna argue the point too much. You obviously have it worked out - when the police job gets too boring you can just move on over to airborne. :)

[nightsniper]

Is is can be a infantry unit, with sniper school. But, if next year I will win "green card" to USA, I`ll goint to join US SEALs.:D

[Delta_V]

So you've never shot the SigPro or any other SiG firearm, yet you know enough about it to say how great it is and how similar it is to the rest of their line? Interesting.

You're a funny person. First you want to be a SWAT officer and sniper, then you want to be an airborne member of Canada's military, and now you want to be a SEAL!! By the way...if your father was indeed a high ranking member of the Russian "secret police," you'll probably never get any kind of position with the US government that requires a security clearance. Bye Bye SEALS!

And a great new sig you have there...I think someone may have a problem passing the psych exam. ;)

[nightsniper]

:D cool!
But do NOT mix SPECIAL POLICE with SECRET POLICE:rolleyes:
My father was in special police, it is same to SWAT:D, he was a chief of that unit . And secret police mean KGB, before 1990, after 1990 it is a FSB. (same to CIA).;) If you are worked in secret police, you can NOT going out side your country for the next 15-20 years:) It is depend what livel of top secret information you know. In some cases you never can go out side of Russia.

[nightsniper]

Sorry if you do not anderstanded joke about Queen rifles, SEALs, snipers and other **** lake that - it was a JOKE;) I am a COP on forever:)