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CHPMarine
03-19-2005, 01:21 PM
i have stopped several off duy LAPD officers. most of the time, they ID themselves right away. i say "dont crash on my beat and have a great day" then kick them loose. the main problem is when a cop doesnt ID themselves right away and you have tme to investigate, possibly smell alcohol. In my opinion, i would rather an off duty cop ID themselves right away, so i dont have enough time to "form any opinions" or take any action. I see ID and walk back to my car.

Delta784
03-19-2005, 03:13 PM
i have stopped several off duy LAPD officers. most of the time, they ID themselves right away. i say "dont crash on my beat and have a great day" then kick them loose. the main problem is when a cop doesnt ID themselves right away and you have tme to investigate, possibly smell alcohol. In my opinion, i would rather an off duty cop ID themselves right away, so i dont have enough time to "form any opinions" or take any action. I see ID and walk back to my car.

Or, they wait until the citation is written before they ID themselves. It's not impossible to void a citation, but it's a real pain in the *** to do it.

Josey Wales
03-19-2005, 04:58 PM
Delta,

In CA is extremely difficult to void a cite. I've done it, but it is a hassle.

Y'know, I find it difficult to believe a cop could start writing a cite before figuring out the driver is a cop. I know it might happen, but it has got to be a rare exception. From my experience, the driver's status is learned right away.

Adios,

JW

CHPMarine
03-19-2005, 05:03 PM
Delta,

In CA is extremely difficult to void a cite. I've done it, but it is a hassle.

Y'know, I find it difficult to believe a cop could start writing a cite before figuring out the driver is a cop. I know it might happen, but it has got to be a rare exception. From my experience, the driver's status is learned right away.

Adios,

JW


I agree!!! we have to jump through many hoops just to void a cite, including writing a memo to our commander explaining why! and you cant say because it was a cop, not good enough.
yes, usually you find out they are a cop right off the bat, but not always. as in the case of my DUI arrest discussed earlier in this thread.

Delta784
03-19-2005, 05:46 PM
Y'know, I find it difficult to believe a cop could start writing a cite before figuring out the driver is a cop. I know it might happen, but it has got to be a rare exception. From my experience, the driver's status is learned right away.

It's usually out-of-state cops that do this, apparently they're not used to professional courtesy.

KBeecher
03-20-2005, 04:34 PM
Well, I can say that all stops I have been on, I usually try to identify myself, but some times it never comes up until the ask the question about guns in the vehicle. I really hate to answer that one because I have heard that some states, including Califa are real sticklers about carrying a gun in your car. I refuse to carry a gun without it being loaded, and there you cant.

So I usually try to watch the speed on the interstates and keep it down enough its not worth the stop for anyone.

So usually I do not verbally identify myself, but if they see my wallet badge and ID when I get my license out, they will normally ask. That's when I ID.

Either way, I have not been ticketed out of state yet, and only given written warnings in state. Thank you guys.

:D

bigcop97
03-20-2005, 11:36 PM
KURT581 posted that a trooper stated to him.... "That badge ain't gonna help you today, boy" when he was stopped.....

I dont know how the WSP admin works but If I ever called another driver/ citizen "boy" in that context I would be in trouble. That is discourteous, unproffesional and demeaning.

If I were you I would have filed a complaint with the WSP, I then would have used all my law enforcement expierience to contest the ticket in court/ subpoena all the possible records/ everything I could have done to make it hard on him....

The second he shows me that kind of disrespect on the roadside he has made an enemy and he has lost any sort of brotherhood that I have with him...

Curt581
03-21-2005, 01:05 AM
KURT581 posted that a trooper stated to him.... "That badge ain't gonna help you today, boy" when he was stopped.....

I dont know how the WSP admin works but If I ever called another driver/ citizen "boy" in that context I would be in trouble. That is discourteous, unproffesional and demeaning.

If I were you I would have filed a complaint with the WSP, I then would have used all my law enforcement expierience to contest the ticket in court/ subpoena all the possible records/ everything I could have done to make it hard on him....

Yeah, I probably could have filed a complaint. I was fairly young, and he looked to be quite a bit older. My attitude then, (mostly still is) was that cops don't file IA complaints on other cops. Whiny 'citizens' trying to weasel out of citations do.

To be honest, I didn't give it much thought when it happened. At that time, I was far more ****ed about the 'adding insult to injury' seatbelt tag than I was about being called anything. Wasn't one ticket enough?

And yeah, I could have taken it to court. The trooper that wrote it was one of several ground cars being run by aircraft on a weekend afternoon. Having him subpoenaed would have meant the aircraft observer being subpoenaed too. If their court time is anything ours, that just means they get a minimum three hours overtime. "Making it hard on him" would have meant adding a few extra dollars to his paycheck.

Truth be told, I was going faster than I should have been. I showed up in court and the DA amended it down. Still leaves a bad taste, though.

PTI
03-21-2005, 11:10 PM
Well, I can say that all stops I have been on, I usually try to identify myself, but some times it never comes up until the ask the question about guns in the vehicle. I really hate to answer that one because I have heard that some states, including Califa are real sticklers about carrying a gun in your car. I refuse to carry a gun without it being loaded, and there you cant.

So I usually try to watch the speed on the interstates and keep it down enough its not worth the stop for anyone.

So usually I do not verbally identify myself, but if they see my wallet badge and ID when I get my license out, they will normally ask. That's when I ID.

Either way, I have not been ticketed out of state yet, and only given written warnings in state. Thank you guys.
:D

KB, check out HR 218, it allows cops to carry in all 50 states now.

KBeecher
03-21-2005, 11:46 PM
KB, check out HR 218, it allows cops to carry in all 50 states now.

I have been trying to get information on when my former agency is going to give some kind of qualifications for the paperwork. All I keep hearing is that I shouldn't worry about catching a cold in summer here in Arizona.

I guess unless the state of Feds step in and force them, most agencies don't even want some of us retired guys around their offices.

I'm wondering if it will take a lawsuit to force the states and the local agencies to comply or if they just don't know what to do. With the admin at my old department could be both.

Thanks for thinking about it though.

bxirish
03-28-2005, 01:06 PM
Why would anyone ever write another cop? As sentinel knows here in nyc we pull over everybody from everywhere and get all kinds of responses(badge out window,and other arrogant things and also very respectful guys and girls). I have never felt the need to lecture and/or summons. THEY ARE COPS!!! It's bad enough we get paid poorly but we can at least watch out for each other.

bitterman
03-28-2005, 08:56 PM
Hello all! I'm new to this forum. I hail from a local Long island NY Department. I too believe in professional courtesy. I realize this is an open forum, but it is no crime to give discretion. it is perfectly within the law..

The vehicle and traffic law in my state (NY) gives all police officers discretion in all violations. It doesn't give conditions. Just discretion. While the stated example is a great example of discretion, why should a off duty police officer be treated differently in the exact same situation?
Discretion applies to all equally. It applies to out of towners, police officers, and doctors on the way to work. The point is it is up to the officer.
As far as professional courtesy, Is it professional for Macy's to give a discount to its employees while you pay full price? Is it professional for a car salesman to sell the same car to different people at different prices? Is it right that Doctors treat each other for free, when you have to pay? Each Profession has it's advantages. It is the way of the world.
I'm not advocating letting officers go in DWI accidents or other crimes. I am advocating using your discretion when dealing with fellow law enforcement personnel. If you can use discretion when dealing with the average citizen, why not your fellow officer?

lawdog1971
03-29-2005, 07:07 AM
I know this is an old, ongoing thread, but I felt compelled to speak up.

The way I look at it, we have too many other problems to worry about to be wasting our energy giving tickets to other cops. If I pull over someone involved in LE, I let it go unless it's something REALLY bad...and in that case, I call a supervisor and let them deal with it. Besides, it's not like there aren't enough traffic violator's on the road to pad your stats when needed.

You never know when you may need another LEO's help and wouldn't it be your dumb luck if the guy coming to your aid was someone you wrote up the month before.

cpd32
03-30-2005, 12:36 PM
If I am stopped I am just corteous to the officer and do not mention I am a LEO unless he happens to ask i f have any guns or weapons in the car. Then I explain why yes I do and why. I have still been cited by a trooper for speeding, the trooper who is assigned the county I live nad work in. Makes no matter to me, he was doing his job and I respect that.

Delta784
03-30-2005, 03:43 PM
I have still been cited by a trooper for speeding, the trooper who is assigned the county I live nad work in. Makes no matter to me, he was doing his job and I respect that.

That **** wouldn't fly around here.

Rob 1529
03-30-2005, 06:20 PM
I agree with you Delta784...that wouldn't happen were I work either. These LEO's are your family. Although I do know LEO's that WOULD write not only another LEO, but litteraly there our family member, yep it happened.....hate to be at his house for Christmas.

Bowles
03-31-2005, 09:28 AM
[SIZE=2] Speaking as a former Police Officer and current Correctional Officer I can tell you that yes, they are two very different jobs. As a police officer I carried a gun, pepper spray, asp baton, cuffs, and rarely arrested more than one person at a time.
As a correctional officer I

KBeecher
03-31-2005, 10:27 PM
[QUOTE=Bowles][SIZE=2] If you choose to or not too extend a professional courtesy to me if I happen to be going 10 miles over the speed limit or forgot to put on my seat belt makes no difference to me. When I

Delta784
03-31-2005, 11:48 PM
[QUOTE=Bowles] If you choose to or not too extend a professional courtesy to me if I happen to be going 10 miles over the speed limit or forgot to put on my seat belt makes no difference to me. When I

USAcop
04-01-2005, 11:01 AM
cops with poor attitudes are the usually the only ones that get written.

personally I am tempted to just throw the cops driver's license as far as I can and tell him he can leave when he finds it.

KBeecher
04-01-2005, 01:06 PM
cops with poor attitudes are the usually the only ones that get written.

personally I am tempted to just throw the cops driver's license as far as I can and tell him he can leave when he finds it.

:D I hope you don't work the interstate, cuz a lot of cops just cannot dodge them semis like they used to.

I guess turn about is fair play, show a bad attitude, ya gonna get some attitude in return. :D

kansascop39
04-01-2005, 07:27 PM
Sorry to say this, but I have written a ticket to a LT from a large agency a county away from me. He was a ***** about it plus he was doing 98 mph in a 60. My feelings are that it is profesional courtesy for him not to drive like that in my jurisdiction. Thats the only cop I ever wrote, others i ahve let go, but coem on 38 miles over the speed limit on a small 2 highway is stupid.

Yes we have a brotherhodd that is nation wide, but I also feel that common sense has to enter into it. I would not write a cop for 15 over and would hope to receive the same consideration, however we have to set a limit somewhere.

Bowles
04-01-2005, 10:32 PM
Professional Courtesy should not apply to anyone who has a blatant disregard for the law. I do not make a habit of speeding and I always wear my seat belt, but even the best of us occasionally have a brain fart.
A badge isn't a license to be an *******. When I was on the street the attitude of the driver was 50% if not more of the determining factor as to if they received a ticket or not.
I was recently in a traffic accident, a lady turned left in front of me I t-boned her. If I'd any inclination that my light was red I'd have stopped. There were 2 independent witnesses to the accident who both said I had the red light. The officer had no choice but to give me a ticket. He cited me for

JHoek
04-04-2005, 12:21 PM
It does not matter how fast he/she was driving, or what type of violation was committed,

I WILL NOT TICKET ANOTHER OFFICER.

I am not going to lecture them on safe driving either. When I see the badge I say "have a nice day" then I walk back to my cruiser and go about my business.

It just that simple :)

I don't understand why anyone you would even think about writing another officer.

chrlys4thangel
04-07-2005, 12:23 AM
other than VERY EXTREME circumstances.....I have NEVER written another cop (it's have a nice day bro) I have NEVER written a firefighter/Paramedic for that matter....****, they may be working on me someday

The Joker
04-07-2005, 06:51 AM
I pulled over many many many officers and never once would i even consider writing them a ticket. The only thing i draw the line at is DUI and careless or some other disregarding action........

-J. Brad Davis

Florida police are a different breed. Most are nice but some would write their mama a ticket. Lets just face it, some brother officers are ******. I work with some so I know. They have no respect for anyone let alone another officer.

Josey Wales
04-07-2005, 11:41 AM
KBeecher,

The following


That is what it is all about, will you or won't you put you life on the line for another uniform, regardless of color or type?


If you can't answer yes, you may as well just retire on the job.

is about the most hypocritical post I have read on this forum. You begin here by proclaiming to all that you'd gladly arrest a fellow cop for drunk driving if his/her demeanor was somehow offensive to you! And now you write that a cop should find a new career if they won't sacrafice his/her life for you. Bud, you're about as whacked as the come!

Beecher, you should have abided by your advice before you conned an agency into letting you become part of what once was the greatest fratenity in this nation!!! :mad: Take care you your brother officers; don't frce them to live by your twisted standards! :mad:


JW

Josey Wales
04-08-2005, 06:47 AM
other than VERY EXTREME circumstances.....I have NEVER written another cop (it's have a nice day bro) I have NEVER written a firefighter/Paramedic for that matter....****, they may be working on me someday

Please tell me of the cops you have cited under "very extreme circumstances." I am curious to know how one justifies citing another cop.

Thanks so much,

JW

chrlys4thangel
04-08-2005, 11:21 AM
Please tell me of the cops you have cited under "very extreme circumstances." I am curious to know how one justifies citing another cop.

Thanks so much,

JW


well, I was fortunate enough to work a 2 vehicle DUI fatality...I will give you one guess as to who the driver was (at fault that is ) yup, another cop! killed a 19 y/o female that was on her way home from work...

that is what I meant by VERY EXTREME......maybe I should have clarified more on the subject....

Delta784
04-08-2005, 11:26 AM
well, I was fortunate enough to work a 2 vehicle DUI fatality...I will give you one guess as to who the driver was (at fault that is ) yup, another cop! killed a 19 y/o female that was on her way home from work...

that is what I meant by VERY EXTREME......maybe I should have clarified more on the subject....

I don't know where you work, but around here we arrest for an OUI fatality, not cite.

chrlys4thangel
04-08-2005, 01:12 PM
I don't know where you work, but around here we arrest for an OUI fatality, not cite.

let me try this again :)

yes Delta, it is the same here...it was an arrest, thats what I meant by extreme...and JW, I have never or would never cite, stroke (minds out of the gutter gentlemen) or write another officer....

I guess this is what I get for reading into a post...sorry for the confusion

Josey Wales
04-08-2005, 02:16 PM
chrlys4thangel,

You did a commendable job of acquitting yourself. You seem like a stand-up chick.

Take care & stay safe,

JW

sexcrimes84
04-08-2005, 08:12 PM
many years ago when i was in uniform i stopped a few off duty officers i suspected for dui. made them park the car and gave a ride home. always made contact w/someone at the house who promised to keep him/her in for the night.

glad this never happened, but if an officer would have been involved in an auto accident driving drunk with civilian witnesses involved/around, well i would have had to do my job. no sense in me potentialy risking my job for something he did wrong. on the other hand, drunk officer in a ditch,no damage,no witnesses, tow truck and ride home.

i cant think of a reason why i would have cited an off duty officer for a simple speeding infraction,although i stopped a few.

edit: whats the deal with the green and red symbols by my name. i see iam red!! is that bad or something?

chrlys4thangel
04-08-2005, 11:40 PM
chrlys4thangel,

You did a commendable job of acquitting yourself. You seem like a stand-up chick.

Take care & stay safe,

JW

whyyyyy JW....I do believe you made me blush :p

ditto to you...watch your six

KBeecher
04-09-2005, 06:36 AM
KBeecher,

is about the most hypocritical post I have read on this forum. You begin here by proclaiming to all that you'd gladly arrest a fellow cop for drunk driving if his/her demeanor was somehow offensive to you! And now you write that a cop should find a new career if they won't sacrafice his/her life for you. Bud, you're about as whacked as the come!

Beecher, you should have abided by your advice before you conned an agency into letting you become part of what once was the greatest fratenity in this nation!!! :mad: Take care you your brother officers; don't frce them to live by your twisted standards! :mad: JW

JW, I think you need to read the posts a little closer. I would arrest an officer if he was a danger and refused to cooperate. I could care less if his demeanor was offensive to me or anyone else. If he is a danger, then he needs to be taken off the road and kept off it until he is not. And if he refused to cooperate because he is an idiot while drinking, then he can spend his time with the rest of the idiots.

And by the way, I did not say "sacrifice his/herlife", I said if you are not willing to put your life on the line for another officer then you might as well retire on duty.

Let's get something perfectly straight JW, you might wear a uniform and you might not. I don't care. But I spent 22 years dealing with street scum that I had more respect for than you. I have expressed an opinion, and I made it clear it was my opinion. You didn't like it, so what? You are not the end all of police information and correctness. Your opinion counts just as much mine does, and just as little. I am not going to get into any "mine is bigger than yours" match, as it would be a waste of my time.

:D So if you don't like my posts, stick your mouse where the sun don't shine and put me on your ignore list.

Until then why don't you try reading the posts and admitting that they are opinions and everyone has one. It's alright not to agree with you, because you are not the only one who is or was LE.

Curt581
04-09-2005, 06:52 AM
KB...

We need an "applause" smiley.

I'd post another rep point for you if the board would let me.

BECPA
04-09-2005, 11:09 AM
I'm just wondering what some of you think of Bail Enforcement Agents ?
I worked as a County Corrections Officer for a while and then took a job as a Bail Enforcement Agent, we are trained and licensed (in most states)however BEA's are not LEO's and pursuant to Federal & State Law we only have arrest authority over the Bail Fugitive we are hired to apprehend.

I had a situation once where I was driving a Crown Vic with our organizations logo and name "Bail Enforcement ect.." this vehicle is normally used for prisoner transports but I was using it for personal use because my vehicle was being repaired, the transport vehicle was registered in the next state where our main office was located and the vehicle had a custom plate, the local PD stopped me (several units converged) and they advised that they thought something was up when they kept seeing a cruiser with out of state plates still in town after 2 weeks and for some reason the custom plate was not showing in the computer.

I have no problem with being stopped but they began giving me attitude about driving the vehicle for personal use, not telling them I was in town and accusing me of having a phony plate on the car, I provided them with the registration verifying the plate but they still insisted that the plate was illegal however they didn't write me any tickets.

I always call and notify the local PD before I plan to make an arrest but after thinking about the situation I decided that even though I wasn't working any local cases I probably should have let the local PD know I was around, so I contacted the DMV and got a letter confirming that the plate on the vehicle was valid and I brought that along with copies of my credentials including a copy of my Corrections Badge and ID (which I wrote former Officer on the Copy) to the local PD so they would become familiar with me.

A few months later I learned that one of the officers called my former supervisor at the County Jail to verify that I had worked there and gave the impression that I was out badging people with my old CO Badge, and he was saying that the plate was illegal and the letter from the DMV was phony, this same officer also tried to tell me I had no arrest authority over my "fugitives".

I was always polite and respectfull and didn't deserve to be treated like this and for the sake of my reputation I needed to clarify this situation so I sent the chief of police a letter explaining what happened, I never mentioned the Officers name but they figured out who it was, a LT called me to advise that they had no problem with me and to call him if there were any more problems.

Does anyone have any comments or think I should have handled the situation differently ?

me ofc
04-09-2005, 07:06 PM
now what about an officers family? Just the other day my Fianc

Josey Wales
04-10-2005, 08:22 AM
KBeecher

The following is from you:


I have given breaks to other officers, as they have probably given me breaks. But I refuse to let an officer who shows such lack of common sense as to become belligerent toward me or another officer while driving drunk back out on the street. And if it takes going to jail rather than getting a ride from me or another officer, he gets to go to jail.

Attitude is everything, and lack of respect is part of it.

Then you added this:


JW, I think you need to read the posts a little closer. I would arrest an officer if he was a danger and refused to cooperate. I could care less if his demeanor was offensive to me or anyone else. If he is a danger, then he needs to be taken off the road and kept off it until he is not. And if he refused to cooperate because he is an idiot while drinking, then he can spend his time with the rest of the idiots.

First you wrote that you would arrest an officer for DUI if his/her demeanor were offensive to you, then in your latest post you have vainly attempted to weasel your way out of it! First it was attitude now you got some **** about "danger and refuse to cooperate" going on. So what's up with this? Is it just that fact that it is dangerous to drive drunk that would be catalyst for you to jump into your Ponch & John mode? And God forbid a cop not cooperate with you...like excerising his/her Constitutional rights to remain silent. I'm sure that would provoke an Arizona Tough Cop like you right into your ninja response!

Ya'see ATC, I have exceptional comprehension skills. What ****es you off is that I also have exquisite weasel spotting skills. Now I know you're not long on intelligence as the following will attest:


Let's get something perfectly straight JW, you might wear a uniform and you might not. I don't care. But I spent 22 years dealing with street scum that I had more respect for than you. I have expressed an opinion, and I made it clear it was my opinion. You didn't like it, so what? You are not the end all of police information and correctness. Your opinion counts just as much mine does, and just as little. I am not going to get into any "mine is bigger than yours" match, as it would be a waste of my time.

There is no doubt in my mind that you cannot distinguish a dirtbag from a cop; in fact, this is how you justify treating cops with no respsect. You justify arresting cops by alleging they are dirtbags who have dissed you and had a 'tude thereby forcing you to arrest them! :mad:

Finally, it is awfully stupid to allege we are arguing opinions here, almost another weasel clause. Show me posts here that are in fact something other than opinions. This whole thread is nothing but opinion! We all know we're arguing opinions, and my opinion of your first post is that it was authored by a Casper Milquetoast who once aspired to work with Walter Mitty at Fantasy PD. The fact of the matter is that you may at one time have been a cop, but your posts here cause me to doubt whether you really were, or if you were, how you were perceived by your colleagues!

JW

Josey Wales
04-10-2005, 08:24 AM
KB...

We need an "applause" smiley.

I'd post another rep point for you if the board would let me.

Curt,

There is no doubt that you and KB are two of a kind! :cool: Tell me how to support your buddy for you and I'll help you do what you couldn't do for yourself! ;)

Stay tight,

JW

KBeecher
04-10-2005, 05:26 PM
KBeecher

First it was attitude now you got some **** about "danger and refuse to cooperate" going on.
:rolleyes:
You got it jw, that is exactly what I meant by attitude, similar to what you are expressing toward me. Let me guess, at one time you pulled your macho brotherhood of cops attitude when you got popped for doing something illegal? I guess it must not have worked cuz you sure get all worked up over the "brotherhood". I sincerely doubt if you pulled that bull on someone who actually did real police work, and didn't work a "bow and arrow squad" like you, you wouldn't get away with it.

So what's up with this? Is it just that fact that it is dangerous to drive drunk
Let me see, do you even know how dangerous it is to drive drunk or are you getting all your information from "Bloody Highway" you saw in high school drivers ed?

that would be catalyst for you to jump into your Ponch & John mode?
Let me guess that would be the heros where you work or worked at?

And God forbid a cop not cooperate with you...like excerising his/her Constitutional rights to remain silent. :confused:

Go right ahead, I have no problem with anyone exercising their Right to remain silent. I always found it easier to issue the year suspension forms than run through an Intoxilyzer or get blood via a search warrant. But then again if all he did was refuse to blow no big deal, he loses his license for a year. And I never lost a DUI in court, even without the Intox results.

I'm sure that would provoke an Arizona Tough Cop like you right into your ninja response!

:eek:
You have found my secret skills out oh evil one!!!!

Ya'see ATC, I have exceptional comprehension skills. What ****es you off is that I also have exquisite weasel spotting skills. Now I know you're not long on intelligence as the following will attest:
There is no doubt in my mind that you cannot distinguish a dirtbag from a cop; in fact, this is how you justify treating cops with no respsect. You justify arresting cops by alleging they are dirtbags who have dissed you and had a 'tude thereby forcing you to arrest them! :mad:

Really sorry about that, try to relax and take your blood pressure meds now. I forgot that you are from the oldddddddddddddddd school, where there were never any bad cops. Oh I forgot to add, if you look really close I think the closest I ever came to arresting one was when I had to give him a ticket for an accident. ;)

Finally, it is awfully stupid to allege we are arguing opinions here, almost another weasel clause. Show me posts here that are in fact something other than opinions. This whole thread is nothing but opinion! We all know we're arguing opinions, and my opinion of your first post is that it was authored by a Casper Milquetoast who once aspired to work with Walter Mitty at Fantasy PD. The fact of the matter is that you may at one time have been a cop, but your posts here cause me to doubt whether you really were, or if you were, how you were perceived by your colleagues!

JW

Most of the work I did was with a smaller department, but we still had SWAT, firearms, instructors, FTO's, and all the other stuff you bigger city people had. We just did our job and if one of us got in trouble, off the job, we sucked it up and went on with our life, we didn't blame the other officer, or cry and whine about a brotherhood. We did what all officers should do, support the officer anyway possible. And that does not mean taking bull from him like you would suggest an officer is obligated to do.

As for my colleagues, they would back me up and I would back them up, off duty or on duty.

So jw, why don't you do as I suggested, put me on your ignore list and we can go on with expressing opinons, of which mine would be the right one. Then everyone else could express theirs also.

And by the way, could you possibly let me know the address to that PD you seem so familar with, you know the one that you seem to have such intimate knowledge of, the one you appear to have worked for, that's right Fantasy PD. I figure they are probably in need of a few good cops if your are any example of that department. Of course it is wrong of me to presume that, since one officer is not a true representative of a whole department. MY BAD.
:cool:

winq
04-11-2005, 10:44 AM
Every town or job has someone who will write anyone...they are probably the guy/gal everone hates. No wants to work with ect...this probably is 1% of LE. It's when that one guy writes someone from a different agency,it gives everone else a bad name. In terms of DWI's, i will do everything short of risking my own job help another LEO out.

KBeecher
04-11-2005, 01:54 PM
We had one like that at my agency. He was a Canadian turned American who was also a retired U. S. Marine.

We all just took it for granted that he was unable to divorce himself from that Marine Corp gung ho spirit. He wa a good guy and no one that I know of hated him. They did have a hard time trying to explain him to other LE agencies. Bue he was still an excellent officer.

gpinindy
04-11-2005, 04:31 PM
I have a sheriff star decal on my back window of my POV... can't miss it. I never need to id myself... they always ask first.

Would you write a cops spouse if you knew that officer personally. i.e. you recognized the last name?

Josey Wales
04-11-2005, 04:49 PM
We had one like that at my agency.

Yeah, we know: his initials were KBeecher! :D

JW

KBeecher
04-12-2005, 07:05 AM
Yeah, we know: his initials were KBeecher! :D

JW

jw good one :rolleyes: just what the board needs, you and 10,000 other comedians. :D

Josey Wales
04-12-2005, 08:16 AM
KBeecher,

We have you has the forum's joker, so I thought it was time to interject reality; hence:
Yeah, we know: his initials were KBeecher!


JW

KBeecher
04-12-2005, 08:26 AM
KBeecher,We have you has the forum's joker, so I thought it was time to interject reality; hence: JW

Again jw, good one :rolleyes: now do you think you could at least allow others to get their comments in on their opinion of the thread or at least of me?

I really must apologize to you for letting me get under your skin. I had thought that you would realize I refuse to have a battle of wits with a half-wit like you. I hate going up against an unarmed and witless person such as you.

So, if you would like, just put me on your ignore list and follow the advice of a good man. "If you have nothing good to say about a man in front of his face don't say anything behind his back. He might turn around and hear you and commence to whupping your *****."

And jw, I have used restraint so far, I would suggest you put me on your ignore list and leave it at that. You can even brag to all your cohorts at Fantasy PD that you won this scintillating put down contest you have engaged in. I'll let everybody know that you won in real life

Josey Wales
04-12-2005, 10:43 AM
KBeecher,


So, if you would like, just put me on your ignore list and follow the advice of a good man. "If you have nothing good to say about a man in front of his face don't say anything behind his back. He might turn around and hear you and commence to whupping your *****."

Ooooooh, I feel so threatened by the above poorly written admonishment. By golly, I'll bet you are your code enforcement agency's model of command presence! :eek: As for me, well good ol' Honest Abe's refrain, sightly modified for the cyber age, suits me just fine: It's better to remain quiet and thought a fool than to access your keyboard and remove all doubt. ;)


And jw, I have used restraint so far, I would suggest you put me on your ignore list and leave it at that.

What'd he say??? :confused: Hell, all you have used to date is gobbledygook! With your lack of logic and reasoning skills, I'll bet a rookie had to write your reports...probably handled your calls, too! Anyway, I'll take you up on your threat. Show me what you got, big boy. :D

What kind of fool would access a forum such as this with untenable opinions and then demand to be ignored when his fallacies are exposed? If you want to be ignored, Beecher, talk to your wife! I'm sure she's accompished at tuning you out...just like your colleagues were. Hell, I'll bet you're on your former agency's ignore list...that is, if there is a former agency. Do you still feel left out at Christmas time? :cool:

JW

KBeecher
04-12-2005, 08:39 PM
KBeecher,
Ooooooh, I feel so threatened by the above poorly written admonishment. By golly, I'll bet you are your code enforcement agency's model of command presence! :eek: As for me, well good ol' Honest Abe's refrain, sightly modified for the cyber age, suits me just fine: It's better to remain quiet and thought a fool than to access your keyboard and remove all doubt. ;)

Again jw, good one. Gee, Code Enforcement, such a good life, I don't wear a gun or uniform, I don't make arrests, I don't have to argue with people like you and they pay me a very good wage, lets me buy the chrome I want. And yes I have to agree with your quote from Abe, you have erased all doubt with me and some others I am sure, that you are a fool.


What'd he say??? :confused: Hell, all you have used to date is gobbledygook! With your lack of logic and reasoning skills, I'll bet a rookie had to write your reports...probably handled your calls, too! Anyway, I'll take you up on your threat. Show me what you got, big boy. :D

Yes, your right, I had rookies like you handle my calls when I was an FTO for several years. But I really have to say that if your language, grammar and spelling used in your reports is anything like you display on this board, your evaluations would have been 1's across the board at my old agency. Sorry, we just didn't have room for overzealous, egotistical, indocile throwbacks like you. We canned them before they got to the physical.

What kind of fool would access a forum such as this with untenable opinions and then demand to be ignored when his fallacies are exposed?

I don't know, what kind of fool are you?

If you want to be ignored, Beecher, talk to your wife! I'm sure she's accompished at tuning you out...just like your colleagues were. Hell, I'll bet you're on your former agency's ignore list...that is, if there is a former agency. Do you still feel left out at Christmas time? :cool:

JW

Not married, never worried about colleagues tuning me out since they normally came to me for advice when confronting a situation they had not had before. And since I am not a reserve and did my time, I don't feel a need to keep in contact with my agency. I will on occaisions attend the picnics and the FOP Christmas party, but do not have a burning urge like some jw to associate only with active officers. I spend my time for myself not to fulfill some burning desire to be cop again, such as I feel you may be doing.

Off.Cartman916
04-19-2005, 12:19 AM
I have a new twist....carpool lanes??? Has anyone ever popped a fellow cop using one, when he was alone in the car? I'll be honest I use them all the time, when I'm running late. I'm just curiuos...what your reaction would be..

Slippery Pete
04-19-2005, 03:19 PM
Carpool lanes are a stupid idea. We don't have any in my neck of the woods, but if we did I wouldn't cite anyone for it unless they really ****ed me off. And I wouldn't stop anybody for it unless I really wanted in their car.

Speaking of carpool lanes, I always wondered why an empty bus is allowed in the carpool lane. Not only is the driver the lone occupant, but it's disel engine is polluting more than a passenger car and it's girth takes up much more space than a passenger car.

NPD21
04-24-2005, 01:31 PM
I have read some things on this post regarding the Ohio State Highway Patrol and just thought I would add my two cents....... I was on my way home from work last night driving faster than I should have been and was stopped by a State Trooper. The moment he saw my Dept I.D. he said " have a good one" and walked back to his car, killed his lights and drove away. I just wanted to relay the positive experience that I had with the OSHP and maybe dispel some of the myths about them ALWAYS writing other cops :)

3/4s
04-24-2005, 02:45 PM
I haven't been following this thread for awhile as it's usually the same thing written differently. I myself never ever wrote another cop for traffic and was fortunate enough to never being put in a situation that was a "must arrest" such as DWI with injuries or fatalities. If you worked in Podunk and had an attitude you might get yelled at but never written up. We only have each other and I always figure it's good to have lots of friends.

So why am I adding to this dogpile at this late date? Well, it's like this, I was stopped for speeding last week. Yep, major brain fart. 4 lane road, very light traffic, broad daylight.

I see him coming so I pull over even before he lights me up. He pulls behind me and runs my Disabled Veteran plate. Young Township cop, very sharp and professional. He goes through his spiel and I tell him I know I was speeding but didn't realize how fast. (true) He asks for my license and paperwork and I say before I proceed that I'm armed and a retired p.o. He asks where the gun is and I tell him. Then I ask can I get my wallet out and he says don't make any sudden moves. I get my wallet out and he won't look at my I.D. card. Now I'm thinking this isn't going well. These guys don't have audio or video so that's not a problem.

He asks me why I don't have the new sticker on my plate and I tell him it should be there because I remember putting it on. He takes a real good look at my Disabled Veteran plate and says "Ok, I missed it".

As he's back in his car I realize he thinks he's writing one of his own since I never said I was a NYC cop. Nice.

Anyway, he gives me a break, instead of speed he writes one for disobeying a traffic control device, no points. $105.50. I sign the ticket and get my copy. Only then do I tell him that when he goes on those trips to the big city and gets stopped he'd be on his way in about 10 seconds or less. No answer.

I guess one man's P.C. is another man's $105.50. I paid it, That's the end of it.

Delta784
04-24-2005, 02:50 PM
Let me get this straight.....you have a Disabled Veteran license plate, AND a retired police ID, but he still wrote you a citation??? :mad:

That cop had a ****ty FTO.

3/4s
04-24-2005, 04:01 PM
Yes and yes. Whatever, they're out there. At least it was a no point ticket.

Off.Cartman916
04-25-2005, 12:43 AM
Anyway, he gives me a break, instead of speed he writes one for disobeying a traffic control device, no points. $105.50.

I get the vibe that you might not want to make a big issue about this, but on principle alone I would make a stink about it....I would drop by his station and have a conversation with the on duty supervisor about him lying on a cite....point or no point he still cited a cop

VSPClem
04-25-2005, 03:57 AM
OFFCART,

While I agree citing a cop is bad karma...Im not sure him making a stink about the cop lying on the cite is a good idea in this case, and here is why.

The lie actually reduced the penalty 3/4s would have gotten. While there is no instance a PO should lie 3/4 may find himself in a bigger storm of trouble, by possible incurring the original charge that should have been made.

3/4s
04-25-2005, 07:01 AM
He didn't lie. The traffic control device was the speed limit sign. They seem to have some leeway here on this. I don't recall doing it but I didn't write that many movers. He said he gave me a break. So be it. My point is P.C. is not automatic. The guy in uniform wins.

PeteBroccolo
04-25-2005, 09:54 AM
How about this - no one, especially LEO/PO, like being called on their indiscretions, especially if it means having to pay a fine and suffer other consequences, but also no LEO/PO likes HAVING to speak to another LEO/PO about their indiscretions. So, MAYBE, just MAYBE, if ALL of us LEO/PO paid more attention to our driving habits, on AND especially off duty, this problem will go away.

And yes, I have HAD to charge other LEO/PO for situations ranging from seat belt non-use to driving while BAC over.

VSPClem
04-25-2005, 11:59 AM
HAD to charge for not wearing a seat-belt?

I totally agree that off duty POs need to watch what their are doing, and nothing upsets me more than stopping an off duty PO who is driving over 20 or so miles per hour. It puts the guy in uniform in just as awkward a spot, but I still have discretion and may "warn, summons, or arrest" where are you that requires you HAVE to write a PO for not wearing a seatbelt....big difference between that and DUI.

tntkop
05-01-2005, 01:47 AM
I just keep a donut in the glove box. When I get stopped, I hold it out the window and say, "want one?" If that don't work, my trunk monkey tosses one at him. If that don't work, trunk monkey will hump his leg, then I go to jail and monkey goes to the dog pound.

VSPClem
05-01-2005, 01:18 PM
Trunk Monkey was a cool investment, but they never told me I need to put air holes in the trunk...lear the hard way I guess. Poor monkey.

Tazman
05-05-2005, 10:39 AM
As some of you read in a previous post, I recieved a speeding ticket in WI back in February. I made contact with the prosecutor to find out WI has no diversion program. I have now paid my first speeding ticket.

Are things that bad between officers that we no longer go the extra mile for each other? How are you suppose to trust a brother in blue when you know he would hang you in a heart beat. There are about 15 of us that go to WI snowmobilig every year but we will not be going back since they seem to dislike other officers up there. I know there are some great officers in WI but the few I ran into have no use for other officers.

What a shame:(

x5150x
05-05-2005, 12:33 PM
Not all of us WI LEOs are like that...the problem is mostly with State Troopers.

Tazman
05-05-2005, 12:54 PM
It's funny you should mention that, it was a State Trooper that wrote me. I was still extremly polite but I did ask him how many of his fellow officers actually trust him but he had no reply.

I'm in no way saying we are above the law but we give people breaks all the time.

johnoycop
05-08-2005, 07:40 PM
I am from Georgia...well about a year ago I had to take a trip to Illinois(my mother had a stroke) anyway while travelling through Tennessee I was pulled over by a state trooper for speeding...I don't know what he clocked me at but do know I was pushing 20 over on the interstate(stupid me) well I have a window sticker for my dept. , so after he got my license and ins. he asked for my I.D. , I thought great now he is going to keep'em or call my chief...lol...but he just said have a nice day , handed me my stuff and that was it. He was very proffessional and I was very lucky. NOW do not try that in Alabama or at least not the trooper that stopped for 66 in a 55...I got that ticket even after identifying myself...his response was I don't care who you are...I told him thank you. I just hope his attitude changes or he changes proffessions...I deserved the ticket but not the attitude.

PeteBroccolo
05-09-2005, 06:38 PM
HAD to charge for not wearing a seat-belt?
Many years ago, but well after the legislation came into effect. It happened to be the lone parking ticket writer working for the city where I was posted. We were working an enforcement project - he was not wearing his belt, but was wearing his uniform. His response when being served? "You better never park downtown!" I was shaking in my boots after that.

Someday I may be able to expand on the Driving While BAC >, but that matter has not been disposed of yet.

Stan Switek
05-11-2005, 01:33 PM
Many years ago, but well after the legislation came into effect. It happened to be the lone parking ticket writer working for the city where I was posted. We were working an enforcement project - he was not wearing his belt, but was wearing his uniform. His response when being served? "You better never park downtown!" I was shaking in my boots after that.

Someday I may be able to expand on the Driving While BAC >, but that matter has not been disposed of yet.

Pete,

Just curious. Why couldn't you give the seat belt guy a verbal warning?

sha4433
05-22-2005, 04:10 AM
other than VERY EXTREME circumstances.....I have NEVER written another cop (it's have a nice day bro) I have NEVER written a firefighter/Paramedic for that matter....****, they may be working on me someday

No ****! I won't write nurses, doctors, court clerks, corrections officers or military personnel, and even violators I think fall into the "jury pool" for traffic infractions. Traffic laws are tools to take dirtbags to jail. I usually don't stop a car unless I know someone is going to jail inside it.

I stopped a soldier's wife driving like a total jackass the other day...her husband was in Iraq...there is no way was going to cite her. If she lied and got one over on me, who cares?

And...to those officers/troopers that do write other officers, I hope to god you are getting your *** kicked one day and the officer you wrote the ticket is your backup. I'd obey every traffic law on the way, and give plenty of verbal commands (while you got your *** kicked) before taking action.

To put things into perspective, if that officer/trooper is willing to screw another officer, what kind of impression do they leave on the average citizen? Probably not one we need.

SinePari
05-22-2005, 05:28 AM
Yesterday I pulled over a former part timer from a nearby town. He did 15 years and left for whatever reason. His inspection sticker was expired for 3 years, no front plate and no seatbelt. I mean, 3 years? WTF? His ****box wouldn't pass inspection 3 years ago and it wasn't getting any better.

Anyway, I said since you were "on the job" for so long, I asked him to name the Ch/Sec for his violations and the fine amounts. He nailed all 3 on the head and I sent him on his merry way without any paper.

How's that for PC?

Delta784
05-22-2005, 11:27 AM
Anyway, I said since you were "on the job" for so long, I asked him to name the Ch/Sec for his violations and the fine amounts. He nailed all 3 on the head and I sent him on his merry way without any paper.

How's that for PC?

You would have gotten me, because I have no idea what the Ch/Sec are for those infractions. I'd have to look them up or ask someone. :eek: :D

The only ones I know off-hand;

89-9: Traffic lights & posted signs.

90-7: Defective equipment.

90-22G: Littering from M/V (pet peeve).

I know that OUI/Reckless/OAS/OAR are 90-23 & 90-24, but I always get them mixed-up. Thank goodness for computerized booking sheets. :D

OFCDDUKE
05-22-2005, 08:45 PM
I work in a small department about 5 mins outside of New Orleans. I don't know how you guys up north do things but at least around the New Orleans area, all you have to do is tell the officer your on the job and show your department ID. Unless the officer is one of those that doesn't believe in professional courtsey, and believe it or not we have some, you won't have a problem. I have been pulled over a few times and have never had a problem, in fact my wife has even been pulled over and told the officer that she was married to a cop and did not have a problem.

nocode
05-25-2005, 11:16 AM
Here in South Louisiana we do things the same way. Same principles, etc., but I've had to train myself to slow down when I'm off duty; on-duty I was always trying to go from complaint to complaint as quick as possible and carried those driving habits into my civilian life!

nocode
05-25-2005, 11:19 AM
I work in a small department about 5 mins outside of New Orleans.
Whey you say "small" are you referring to JP?

Delta784
05-25-2005, 01:25 PM
I don't know how you guys up north do things but at least around the New Orleans area, all you have to do is tell the officer your on the job and show your department ID.

With very few exceptions, PD's in Massachusetts will always extend professional courtesy. I've heard that the state police in CT and NH can be ******, but I've never been stopped by them, so I have no first-hand knowledge.

SinePari
05-25-2005, 03:29 PM
I've heard that the state police in CT and NH can be ******

No pro baseball, football, hockey, or basketball teams :D

Delta784
05-25-2005, 03:32 PM
No pro baseball, football, hockey, or basketball teams :D

Good point! :D

SuperSix5
05-26-2005, 12:33 PM
With very few exceptions, PD's in Massachusetts will always extend professional courtesy. I've heard that the state police in CT and NH can be ******, but I've never been stopped by them, so I have no first-hand knowledge.

Same in CT. There are always the few exceptions, but even the troopers will tip their hat to you. Now civillians however, tend to meet a whole other trooper, but I hear it's the same way with the MASP.

Delta784
05-26-2005, 12:38 PM
Now civillians however, tend to meet a whole other trooper, but I hear it's the same way with the MASP.

In all fairness, the MSP is slowly shedding its image for being ******. Merging with some other state LE agencies in the 1990's did a lot for that, in addition to some enlightened members of the command staff, who realized they had alienated just about every other LE agency in the state.

SinePari
05-26-2005, 06:11 PM
In all fairness, the MSP is slowly shedding its image for being ******. Merging with some other state LE agencies in the 1990's did a lot for that, in addition to some enlightened members of the command staff, who realized they had alienated just about every other LE agency in the state.

C'mon man...I know you have that Norman Rockwell poster "The Runaway" in your bedroom. Shhhh, it'll be our little secret and I won't tell Brickcop ;)

Delta784
05-26-2005, 06:39 PM
C'mon man...I know you have that Norman Rockwell poster "The Runaway" in your bedroom. Shhhh, it'll be our little secret and I won't tell Brickcop ;)

I used to have it in my family room, but it lost out a few years ago to pictures of my kids. Priorities, you know. ;)

flatbadge
05-27-2005, 10:51 PM
Here in South Louisiana we do things the same way. Same principles, etc., but I've had to train myself to slow down when I'm off duty; on-duty I was always trying to go from complaint to complaint as quick as possible and carried those driving habits into my civilian life!



Damn.. I havent been on this forum for a year, and this thread is still alive.

prariedogcop
05-28-2005, 02:37 AM
The concept of "professional courtesy" is often based along "quid pro quo" lines. What is it that a CO would do for me in his line of work? Get me two deserts with my dinner when I get locked up?



We COs might not get you two deserts... but we WILL keep you away from the perp you arrested last week if you get locked up. Hell... We KEEP the badguys you catch... otherwise the Criminal Justice system would be no more useful than Fish and Game's "Catch anf Release" program

But since all we are to you guys are Prison Guards... hey, what do I know... right?

PDC

White639
05-31-2005, 05:01 PM
This is my first time to post, but thought that this is a great topic to put some thought into. Working in Colorado professional courtesy is highly regarded (by most). What is usually seen is the hands on the wheel, the interior light and the statement of "just to let you know I am on off-duty officer and am armed." It's polite and not to over the top. We also check i.d.'s instead of just a badge though.

SeVere
05-31-2005, 05:17 PM
I have read some things on this post regarding the Ohio State Highway Patrol and just thought I would add my two cents....... I was on my way home from work last night driving faster than I should have been and was stopped by a State Trooper. The moment he saw my Dept I.D. he said " have a good one" and walked back to his car, killed his lights and drove away. I just wanted to relay the positive experience that I had with the OSHP and maybe dispel some of the myths about them ALWAYS writing other cops :)


I got stopped by Ohio State Highway Patrol as well, the officer extended courtesy and was very nice.

BufordTJustice
06-03-2005, 10:13 AM
I am new to this as I just registered yesterday, but I am going on my tenth year as a PO in Massachusetts. I have stopped LEO's from other juristictions and other states and have NEVER had any one of them give an attitude or disrespect me. On the other hand I have been pretty lucky as I have never been stopped since being on the job and hopefully never will, not to say I haven't exceeded the speed limit on occations. But the only thing I can really say is to those officers who will write up another brother or sister officer, do you expect that little bit of PC when you are stopped and if so, would you let that other officer who stopped you know that you cite brother and sister officers.

SuperSix5
06-03-2005, 11:58 AM
I just got stopped somewhere in PA on I-81 this past Sunday by a forest ranger! I guess that the PA Bureau of Forestry has jurisdiction on highways that run through state forest land. I was quite surprised.

Anyway, no lecture about my outrageously fast speed, no ticket. He just advised me to slow down and stay safe. Pretty nice guy.

KapsFB
06-03-2005, 12:25 PM
I got lectured about a decade ago because I didnt ID myself. I realy didnt do anything wrong and the officer was to me kinda a jerk. When I finally ID myself, I got lectured for not ID myself.

I now, at his request, if stopped, (hasnt happened in years) say I am armed, why and that is that.

I still dont' believe in waving the badge out the window when stopped. Too me it looks bad. Do it suttle.
I usually travel with my weapon stored in the glove box or consol, right next to my registration. So when asked to produce the registration...."It's in there but there's also a Glock 40 sitting on top". Most will then ask for you badge/ID. This is all done of course with your hands on the wheel in plain sight. Hasn't failed yet. That's on four wheels.

On the bike it's a little tougher. I usually don't carry or if I do, I'd promptly let them know "I'm armed". Haven't been pulled on the bike.....yet.

Sentinel
06-04-2005, 08:59 AM
I just got stopped somewhere in PA on I-81 this past Sunday by a forest ranger! I guess that the PA Bureau of Forestry has jurisdiction on highways that run through state forest land. I was quite surprised.

Anyway, no lecture about my outrageously fast speed, no ticket. He just advised me to slow down and stay safe. Pretty nice guy.Yeah, PA are a pretty good bunch of guys. I got stopped there a long time ago and ended up sitting there for almost an hour talking with the trooper. I left with a very bunch of patches and a hat and he got some old NYPD stuff.

Odd how in some places a traffic stop turns into a problem with some departments/guys and other ones turn into friendships you could have for life. Guess it depends on your attitude toward brother officers on both sides I guess.

otj287
06-08-2005, 09:01 PM
I can't speak for the State Police, but here in CT, you should have no problem with PC. Yes, we'll ask for an ID, not just a badge.

I was stopped a few years back in Myrtle Beach while looking for my hotel. He said I was going 31 in a 25. I apologized and explained I was on the job and just looking for my hotel. He returned a few minutes later (I thought he was going to write me, actually) and said have a nice day.

No long talks, or exchange of plesantries, but he did extend the courtesy. Personally, I won't ticket another cop (active or retired). We're all in the same brotherhood.

haus409
06-11-2005, 07:01 PM
I did write an Officer's wife a few months ago. I didn't know who she was until the ticket was already written, I'd already explained it and had her sign. (He wasn't a local Officer, so I didn't know the name) She didn't complain though, she was doing 20+ over and she didn't have proof of insurance. I only wrote her one.

Also, just a few weeks after I got off of FT, I wrote a local firefighter/paramedic. He had completely blown a stop sign, and gave me a "So what" attitude when I first approached. Again, I didn't know who he was until he started griping when I gave him the ticket. He went to Chief the next day and Chief told him "So what" and to go to court. Boy that started a feud.

SinePari
06-12-2005, 06:41 PM
I was stopped a few years back in Myrtle Beach while looking for my hotel. He said I was going 31 in a 25.

That is such chicken ****...6 mph over. How small does your penis have to be to stop someone for that?

1006smith
06-15-2005, 03:22 AM
I"ll try to answer the traffic stop in the south (Texas area) question.

I work for a sheriff's department in Texas. I think the problem is the way that I am informed that I have pulled over an LEO that ticks me off. We have a large city department near us and many of them live in our county. When I have pulled some of their officers over they roll their window down 1/2 way and stick their badge out the window as if saying "I'm a ____ city police officer and I don't have the time or desire to speak to you". It has happens so much that I thought it might be dept. policy so I ask. No policy.

At least wait until I am at the window before trying to impress me with your badge. Besides, a bright metal object coming out the window at night may get you shot.

jtm553
06-15-2005, 10:55 AM
What about a DUI on another officer? No accident, no weaving, no speeding, say the guy does a u turn on the interstate at night with no approaching traffic. Was not me but someone I know. Blew .11g%bac. What happens in this situation?

Delta784
06-15-2005, 02:05 PM
What about a DUI on another officer? No accident, no weaving, no speeding, say the guy does a u turn on the interstate at night with no approaching traffic. Was not me but someone I know. Blew .11g%bac. What happens in this situation?

Same as I would do for a civilian under the same circumstances....make sure he gets home safely, and doesn't have access to his car until the next morning. In a cop's case, that means driving him home, and storing his car at the PD garage (secured facility). For a civilian, a taxi and a tow.

USAcop
06-15-2005, 06:39 PM
I"ll try to answer the traffic stop in the south (Texas area) question.

I work for a sheriff's department in Texas. I think the problem is the way that I am informed that I have pulled over an LEO that ticks me off. We have a large city department near us and many of them live in our county. When I have pulled some of their officers over they roll their window down 1/2 way and stick their badge out the window as if saying "I'm a ____ city police officer and I don't have the time or desire to speak to you". It has happens so much that I thought it might be dept. policy so I ask. No policy.

At least wait until I am at the window before trying to impress me with your badge. Besides, a bright metal object coming out the window at night may get you shot.

You let these people treat you like that?

I would grab his ID and throw it into the bushes and tell him he could leave when he found it.

Looking down on other cops is probably my second biggest pet peeve.

BufordTJustice
06-16-2005, 11:52 AM
PC.....professional curtisy to some, protective custody for others. Support the brotherhood. :D

bomboy124
06-18-2005, 11:57 PM
I don't know too many guys on my department that would write another officer. I think the big thing for me is being humble.

Radio
06-20-2005, 12:44 PM
Down south here in Texas if a fellow officer stops you -- dont get Attitude. Just because your a police officer doesent mean you wont get a ticket. Attitude is the #1 cause of recieveing a ticket or more.

In my opinion and experience:
1) dont be all "hay man im a cop" the second he walks up to the car. That just comes off Arrogent and sounds like you Expect to get out of a ticket because of being a police officer.
2) haveing badge + ID out in plain View is Good. Anything you can Say w/o saying it is good
3) if you forget that: let him/her finish their approach schpeel (im so n so, i stopped you for), Allways Sir or maam - Do not disrespect, Then think of a polite way to let the On duty Officer know who you are.
4) One I say or something along these lines: "Incase it makes any difference to you I am a police officer."
In the south i dont know about any where else that is a polit thing to say. It keeps the Ball in the On Duty Officers Ct. and lets them know your not Expecting to get out of the ticket but incase they want to be nice youll graceiously accept :) .

And if you keep your gun in plain view .. hands on the wheel and identify your self as soon as he/she walks up, and dont get ****ed if asked to step out of the vehicle if you dont allready have your ID and badge ready to go.

Lastly When you Recieve just a warning (written / Verbal) its - Thank you Sir/maam i really appriciate it.

TheMP5guy
06-22-2005, 08:42 PM
Down south here in Texas if a fellow officer stops you -- dont get Attitude. Just because your a police officer doesent mean you wont get a ticket. Attitude is the #1 cause of recieveing a ticket or more.

In my opinion and experience:
1) dont be all "hay man im a cop" the second he walks up to the car. That just comes off Arrogent and sounds like you Expect to get out of a ticket because of being a police officer.
2) haveing badge + ID out in plain View is Good. Anything you can Say w/o saying it is good
3) if you forget that: let him/her finish their approach schpeel (im so n so, i stopped you for), Allways Sir or maam - Do not disrespect, Then think of a polite way to let the On duty Officer know who you are.
4) One I say or something along these lines: "Incase it makes any difference to you I am a police officer."
In the south i dont know about any where else that is a polit thing to say. It keeps the Ball in the On Duty Officers Ct. and lets them know your not Expecting to get out of the ticket but incase they want to be nice youll graceiously accept :) .

And if you keep your gun in plain view .. hands on the wheel and identify your self as soon as he/she walks up, and dont get ****ed if asked to step out of the vehicle if you dont allready have your ID and badge ready to go.

Lastly When you Recieve just a warning (written / Verbal) its - Thank you Sir/maam i really appriciate it.

Wow, a lot of rules for getting off a simple ticket. That's bull****. Every time I stop another cop I expect him to say right off the bat "sorry man, I'm an officer too". I'll look at his badge, laugh and tell him to have a good day. There shouldn't be rules 1-17 to follow.

Dave2886
06-22-2005, 09:26 PM
Wow, a lot of rules for getting off a simple ticket. That's bull****. Every time I stop another cop I expect him to say right off the bat "sorry man, I'm an officer too". I'll look at his badge, laugh and tell him to have a good day. There shouldn't be rules 1-17 to follow.
I agree. And just for everyone's info, not every cop in the south is like that. I can't see myself or anyone I work with expecting a certain ritual in order to grant PC.

SinePari
06-23-2005, 04:45 AM
Wow, a lot of rules for getting off a simple ticket. That's bull****. Every time I stop another cop I expect him to say right off the bat "sorry man, I'm an officer too". I'll look at his badge, laugh and tell him to have a good day. There shouldn't be rules 1-17 to follow.

No doubt...I didn't have an attitude until I read that post by Radio. They expect us to shine their boots too?

dsquierj
06-23-2005, 01:14 PM
This has been a great (and long-lasting) post. My thoughts are this: first of all, try to hold yourself to a higher standard than the general public, particularly with respect to your driving habits. If for some reason, you do get pulled over, I agree that a subtle approach to identifying yourself (badge on pass seat, hand ID card with license to officer) is far more professional than an in-your-face "I'M A COP!" approach. This helps officers with recording equipment make a more discretionary judgement on whether to extend a professional courtesy.

In the few times I have been stopped, only one resulted in a citation. I was driving across the country and was stopped by a Nebraska State Patrol Trooper. My badge and gun were on the passenger seat. The trooper asked if I was a cop, and asked to see my ID as well as license. He then requested that I sit with him in his patrol car. I sat in the passenger seat and we were "talking shop" while he verified my information. Then he started writing me a citation. I said what are you doing? He replied that he was writing me a ticket (RADAR - 82 in a 75 zone). I was incredulous, especially after we had been having a nice conversation. I said that I wasn't going to fight the ticket or anything, but asked him to think about who would stop for him in the middle of nowhere, should he be in the middle of a knock-down-drag-out fight for his life. This was 6 years ago, but I'm still a bit miffed (and yes, I still would stop and help him).

BayCityBrawler
06-23-2005, 01:40 PM
This has been a great (and long-lasting) post. My thoughts are this: first of all, try to hold yourself to a higher standard than the general public, particularly with respect to your driving habits. If for some reason, you do get pulled over, I agree that a subtle approach to identifying yourself (badge on pass seat, hand ID card with license to officer) is far more professional than an in-your-face "I'M A COP!" approach. This helps officers with recording equipment make a more discretionary judgement on whether to extend a professional courtesy.

In the few times I have been stopped, only one resulted in a citation. I was driving across the country and was stopped by a Nebraska State Patrol Trooper. My badge and gun were on the passenger seat. The trooper asked if I was a cop, and asked to see my ID as well as license. He then requested that I sit with him in his patrol car. I sat in the passenger seat and we were "talking shop" while he verified my information. Then he started writing me a citation. I said what are you doing? He replied that he was writing me a ticket (RADAR - 82 in a 75 zone). I was incredulous, especially after we had been having a nice conversation. I said that I wasn't going to fight the ticket or anything, but asked him to think about who would stop for him in the middle of nowhere, should he be in the middle of a knock-down-drag-out fight for his life. This was 6 years ago, but I'm still a bit miffed (and yes, I still would stop and help him).

A little off topic, but this is not the first time I've heard of a Nebraska state trooper ask the violator to sit next to them in the patrol cruiser. Is this standard? Are they trained to do this? Maybe they are taught a different perspective but I would never have a suspect or a violator in the seat next to me right next to my sidearm. Please someone respond if they think otherwise. I'm not saying it was unsafe with above person seeing he was a cop, but I've heard of them doing it before and the person wasn't a cop.

ccsocop
07-01-2005, 06:21 PM
I don't agree with flashing your badge or handing the officer your ID with the license. A much better way is to say "I just wanted to let you know I'm armed". When the officer ask's why you tell him your a cop and show your badge and ID. When I was on the road I never had another officer give me a hard time when I pulled them over. I treat officers like anyone else. If your nice and know what you did I have no problem cutting anyone a break. There are much worse people out there that need to be ticketed or arrested.

satpak77
07-02-2005, 01:52 PM
I always keep my DL in my credentials holder anyway...I rarely exceed the speed limit but maybe three times in the last ten years, yes, I got stopped for speeding, all highway, never city.

Usually I pull completely off the shoulder, almost into the grass, and immediately roll down the window and place my left arm along the window sill and my right hand resting on my left arm. If at night, dome light goes on immediately.

Most times I get asked "Do you know why I stopped you" to which I answer "Yes sir, for doing 75 in a 55" which is met with surprise as I admit my guilt on car mic/camera.

Yes sir/no sir at all times, and when asked for license, I pull it out, not "flashing my badge" but if the officer is watching my hands, he will indeed see that my DL is with my badge. At NO POINT do I "flash the badge" or wave it in his face, however my credential holder is now in my lap, partially open, having just pulled my DL out of it. 99% of the time, the officer will then ask me who I am with, etc.

I always make it a point to apologize for the incident and give out a business card or a patch to the officer.

An old-timer told me to treat all LE with respect, regardless of department or pay scale......

TGK
07-03-2005, 04:59 PM
I'm a police officer in Dallas, and I got stopped last night :( I pulled way off of the the roadway and turned the dome light on. I told my passenger to grab the dash board, and I grabbed the steering wheel.

He asked for my DL and insurance. I advised him that before I reached for my insurance that my weapon was in the glove compartment and that I was an off duty police officer.

He requested my bad and ID, told me to slow down and that was it. I sure as heck didn't want to open my glove compartment and him to see the gun...

NARC999
07-03-2005, 06:27 PM
I took the time to register into this site basically to reply to this thread.

I'm amazed and a little saddened about how anal we are. Please fella's, if I'm caught speeding in your area, and I am polite, courteous, and tell you I am a copper, please don't cite me. We have enough problems to deal with. Lets not eat our own. Jesus, let us not forget, it's just an infraction.

If you happen to be one of those hard nosed, better than everybody else cops, that ticket other cops because of your higher morale standard--consider this. Most any cop would help out another in a dangerous situation, no matter where they are, or what jurisdiction they are in. The guy your citing may very well save your life, or a family members life one day. When it all gets stacked up, does a traffic ticket really matter??

On rules-- Remember fellas, it's the facts, not necessarily the presentation.
I have had several different types of encounters with cops I have pulled over, hell, one was even a little rude. I didn't ticket any of them, why, because they are cops and deal with the same crap that I do. Yeah, the rude one ****ed me off, but I'm not going to attitude adjust another cop by giving them a cite.

A final thought. If some CHP guy gives me a ticket, I'm not going to start a ticket war with the CHP. How truly pathetic. God, I really hope no civilians read this stuff.

TheMP5guy
07-04-2005, 12:20 AM
I took the time to register into this site basically to reply to this thread.

I'm amazed and a little saddened about how anal we are. Please fella's, if I'm caught speeding in your area, and I am polite, courteous, and tell you I am a copper, please don't cite me. We have enough problems to deal with. Lets not eat our own. Jesus, let us not forget, it's just an infraction.

If you happen to be one of those hard nosed, better than everybody else cops, that ticket other cops because of your higher morale standard--consider this. Most any cop would help out another in a dangerous situation, no matter where they are, or what jurisdiction they are in. The guy your citing may very well save your life, or a family members life one day. When it all gets stacked up, does a traffic ticket really matter??

On rules-- Remember fellas, it's the facts, not necessarily the presentation.
I have had several different types of encounters with cops I have pulled over, hell, one was even a little rude. I didn't ticket any of them, why, because they are cops and deal with the same crap that I do. Yeah, the rude one ****ed me off, but I'm not going to attitude adjust another cop by giving them a cite.

A final thought. If some CHP guy gives me a ticket, I'm not going to start a ticket war with the CHP. How truly pathetic. God, I really hope no civilians read this stuff.

Exactly. Well said. But it is almost impossible to reach the ticket nazi's who really believe in their cause. ****, I was even quoted by one traffic geek that said "speed kills more than murder every year"

Delta784
07-04-2005, 01:07 AM
Exactly. Well said. But it is almost impossible to reach the ticket nazi's who really believe in their cause.

It's almost impossible to dissuade the "true believers", but I like to watch, with smug satisfaction, as the ones on my PD arrive at the inevitable conclusion that they're just engaging in pointless bull**** that no one else cares about.

Resq14
07-06-2005, 04:08 AM
It's almost impossible to dissuade the "true believers", but I like to watch, with smug satisfaction, as the ones on my PD arrive at the inevitable conclusion that they're just engaging in pointless bull**** that no one else cares about.

Another great quote.

Thank you.

:D

marshaldan
07-11-2005, 07:34 PM
I took the time to register into this site basically to reply to this thread.

I'm amazed and a little saddened about how anal we are. Please fella's, if I'm caught speeding in your area, and I am polite, courteous, and tell you I am a copper, please don't cite me. We have enough problems to deal with. Lets not eat our own. Jesus, let us not forget, it's just an infraction.

If you happen to be one of those hard nosed, better than everybody else cops, that ticket other cops because of your higher morale standard--consider this. Most any cop would help out another in a dangerous situation, no matter where they are, or what jurisdiction they are in. The guy your citing may very well save your life, or a family members life one day. When it all gets stacked up, does a traffic ticket really matter??

On rules-- Remember fellas, it's the facts, not necessarily the presentation.
I have had several different types of encounters with cops I have pulled over, hell, one was even a little rude. I didn't ticket any of them, why, because they are cops and deal with the same crap that I do. Yeah, the rude one ****ed me off, but I'm not going to attitude adjust another cop by giving them a cite.

A final thought. If some CHP guy gives me a ticket, I'm not going to start a ticket war with the CHP. How truly pathetic. God, I really hope no civilians read this stuff.


This actually happened in the `60`s between the CHP and LAPD. It came to the point that they were citing each other in marked units.

I was OCSO and not part of the fight.

I do carry some spare patches. A lot of guys collect.

marshaldan
07-11-2005, 07:54 PM
I took the time to register into this site basically to reply to this thread.

I'm amazed and a little saddened about how anal we are. Please fella's, if I'm caught speeding in your area, and I am polite, courteous, and tell you I am a copper, please don't cite me. We have enough problems to deal with. Lets not eat our own. Jesus, let us not forget, it's just an infraction.

If you happen to be one of those hard nosed, better than everybody else cops, that ticket other cops because of your higher morale standard--consider this. Most any cop would help out another in a dangerous situation, no matter where they are, or what jurisdiction they are in. The guy your citing may very well save your life, or a family members life one day. When it all gets stacked up, does a traffic ticket really matter??

On rules-- Remember fellas, it's the facts, not necessarily the presentation.
I have had several different types of encounters with cops I have pulled over, hell, one was even a little rude. I didn't ticket any of them, why, because they are cops and deal with the same crap that I do. Yeah, the rude one ****ed me off, but I'm not going to attitude adjust another cop by giving them a cite.

A final thought. If some CHP guy gives me a ticket, I'm not going to start a ticket war with the CHP. How truly pathetic. God, I really hope no civilians read this stuff.

It might be a good thing if citizens were able to understand how we think.
Many cops now are civilians. Remember the definition. You are either subject to UCMJ or you are not.

marshaldan
07-11-2005, 08:03 PM
I keep my DL in my badge case. It would be hard not to notice the ID card on the top. Not to mention the tin.
So, the officer knows who I am.
What he wants to do is up to him.

I can always speak with a judge.

I stopped and helped a Texas Ranger in the middle of nowhere once. My wife and child were in the car. We had six Mexs and six keys of brown. Rangers travel alone. Back up was about an hour.

Who else would do that out of state, or have the shotgun and side arm to do it with?

ccsocop
07-11-2005, 09:38 PM
I stopped and helped a Texas Ranger in the middle of nowhere once. My wife and child were in the car. We had six Mexs and six keys of brown. Rangers travel alone. Back up was about an hour.

Boy your lucky the texas ranger didn't find your six Mexs and six keys of brown.

JTA1186
07-13-2005, 09:14 AM
In VA, it seems that a majority of troopers hate it when you badge them right away, (especially when you're doing 40 over). I agree with the tactical approach..."I'm really sorry, by the way I have my off-duty weapon with me." They say, "You're a cop?" I say. "Yeah I'm really sorry I just had my head up my *** for a minute." If they ask, I show my ID card at that point. It's only happened twice to me in the past ten years, but that approach got good reviews both times. Just food for thought.

1186

"Speed safely!"

NARC999
07-13-2005, 03:08 PM
I think that guy has dyslexia


I stopped and helped a Texas Ranger in the middle of nowhere once. My wife and child were in the car. We had six Mexs and six keys of brown. Rangers travel alone. Back up was about an hour.

Boy your lucky the texas ranger didn't find your six Mexs and six keys of brown.

Bosworth55
07-14-2005, 11:06 AM
How do you handle F.O.P tags. Do you still stop?

MICHAELH663
07-15-2005, 03:17 PM
How do you handle F.O.P tags. Do you still stop?

Everyone and their mother literally has a police union sticker on their car. I have 2 ex girlfriends still with CLEAT stickers on their windshields, taking advantage when they can. With experience, you should be able to tell the cop sticker from the "booster" (supporter) sticker.

Hey, TX DPS, you guys know what I'm talkin' about with your crappy support the Texas State Troopers Association Stickers and the telemarketers keep like 97% of the funds, and 3% turned over to the actual DPSOA.

When coming upon the "real" sticker, I always ask "who is the officer?" and point to the sticker. In Texas, it is usually up by the inspection and registration stickers. And then we go from there in establishing how much courtesy you should get.

Bosworth55
07-16-2005, 09:12 AM
Everyone and their mother literally has a police union sticker on their car. I have 2 ex girlfriends still with CLEAT stickers on their windshields, taking advantage when they can. With experience, you should be able to tell the cop sticker from the "booster" (supporter) sticker.

Hey, TX DPS, you guys know what I'm talkin' about with your crappy support the Texas State Troopers Association Stickers and the telemarketers keep like 97% of the funds, and 3% turned over to the actual DPSOA.

When coming upon the "real" sticker, I always ask "who is the officer?" and point to the sticker. In Texas, it is usually up by the inspection and registration stickers. And then we go from there in establishing how much courtesy you should get.



My tag on my truck is a F.O.P tag not a sticker. You are right about everyone having one. In western N.C. a sticker dosen't mean there LEO. And last time I checked F.O.P stickers say supporter for non LEO.

smallville
07-16-2005, 02:41 PM
'Everyone and their mother literally has a police union sticker on their car.'

You should come work on Long Island. I usually have to stop 20 cars to get my usual 8 movers. You hear a lot of garbage if you write over a card, no matter what the circumstances. We got a call to a local HS for cars racing. I pull over an old Corvette that's unreg./unisured/uninsp. that's doing 60 in the 20 mph school zone. The 19 year old had an attitude problem, but ID'd himself as a NYC cop's son. He lived nearby so I told him to drive home. I followed him and told him the car couldn't be on the road.
The next, day the kids back. I bring him home again and call his Dad this time. The Dad was great and thanked me. I told him the school was calling and this was the last break I could give. He assured me it wouldn't happen again.
2 days later the kid's back. This time I give him 5 tickets and impound the car.
The 'grateful' Dad calls the PBA and wants to file a 'complaint' about me. The PBA was OK but seemed to take the NYC cops side over mine. They told me there were plenty of other cars to write. I felt I was more than reasonable.
Thoughts from anyone?

Cruiser
07-16-2005, 03:22 PM
What you did was more than reasonable in giving the kid a break. Three times and you are out and it would not even matter if this was a cop, much less his kid. There was a tatal disrespect for you and your area of responsibilities. Any more questions about why I don't like Unions? :mad: Smallville, I would have written him the second time and maybe even the first being as how he had an attitude and what he was doing. Hell, you even had a call on him! PC only extends so far and respect is a two way street. You did right.

deewee.hunter
07-17-2005, 12:19 AM
got pulled over doing 75 in a 55. i was on the way to work and was enroute to a call in my personal vehicle. when tyhe cop pulled me over, he walked up to the car and when he noticed who i was(had my uniform on), immediately told me to have a nice day and let me go. i did not expect anything other than what he felt he needed to do and when he let me move on i apoligysed and thanked him. i have since backed him up on a couple of calls, and after getting to know him i have learned he is a really good officer. i have shown courtesy to 3 other officers stopping them while speeding in and around my town. i think that by showing common courtesy to fellow officers it is just showing respect for the proffession. no, it is not a given right to speed or break the law, but i fell like the only friends i have are other officers, and if i can, im going to show them courtesy. i have only been on the job for 1 year and have alot to learn from my fellow officers, i work in a 5 man department and i feel like just because i work in a small town, i can still show respect to other officers

SinePari
07-22-2005, 07:46 AM
I agree with the tactical approach

Jump out of the car and take cover? Put on your BDUs and grab your long gun?
How about TACTFUL...

Sorry, couldn't resist :D

depdawg
07-22-2005, 10:16 PM
cobra90gt, your right, just try parking around 1300 beaubien, but as for ticketing another leo, just badge me and we'll call it a day. (now thats the sheriff's side in detroit

SPM
07-23-2005, 07:30 AM
The story isn't mine, it's of a local PD Sgt. whom I know.

So one night, it's raining pretty hard. The Sgt. is on duty, it's pretty dark (duh, nighttime), and traffic in the area isn't all that thick at all. It's a city street.

Suddenly, a car passes the Sgt.'s vehicle with excessive speed. With not too much more to consider, the Sgt lights up the car.

Car pulls over.

Remember, it's raining... hard.

So the sgt gets out and walks up to this car. The window (ALL windows) are still rolled up. Right when he gets to the drivers door, the window rolls down about one inch and out comes a badge from a larger nearby city agency. Slightly confused, the Sgt. takes the badge...

and the window zips right back up!


The Sgt. isn't too sure what to do about this, but he is sure he is getting soaked. So he makes his way back to his patrol car and thinks for a minute. The plates come back "Confidential, *agencies abbriviation*". He did see a duffle bag in the passenger seat with some duty gear... So he isn't worried about the badge being fake... moreso the manner in which he recieved the badge.

So, he tosses the badge on his dashboard and starts writing some reports he was behind on. About 10.. maybe 15 minutes later, he notices the car is kinda shaking... because the driver is getting out.

It's still raining pretty damn hard.

The driver then marches back to the patrol car (looking ****ed), and bangs on the window. He is getting pretty wet.

The Sgt. rolls his window down about one inch, slides the badge out, and

*zip*

up goes the window.

The ****ed off cop goes back to his car and takes off.

*end of story*


Personally, I was impressed that the sgt was so cool about it. Funny story though!

Dave2886
07-23-2005, 09:41 AM
lol...good story!

PeteBroccolo
07-23-2005, 07:00 PM
The story isn't mine, it's of a local PD Sgt. whom I know.

So one night, it's raining pretty hard. The Sgt. is on duty, it's pretty dark (duh, nighttime), and traffic in the area isn't all that thick at all. It's a city street.

Suddenly, a car passes the Sgt.'s vehicle with excessive speed. With not too much more to consider, the Sgt lights up the car.

Car pulls over.

Remember, it's raining... hard.

So the sgt gets out and walks up to this car. The window (ALL windows) are still rolled up. Right when he gets to the drivers door, the window rolls down about one inch and out comes a badge from a larger nearby city agency. Slightly confused, the Sgt. takes the badge...

and the window zips right back up!


The Sgt. isn't too sure what to do about this, but he is sure he is getting soaked. So he makes his way back to his patrol car and thinks for a minute. The plates come back "Confidential, *agencies abbriviation*". He did see a duffle bag in the passenger seat with some duty gear... So he isn't worried about the badge being fake... moreso the manner in which he recieved the badge.

So, he tosses the badge on his dashboard and starts writing some reports he was behind on. About 10.. maybe 15 minutes later, he notices the car is kinda shaking... because the driver is getting out.

It's still raining pretty damn hard.

The driver then marches back to the patrol car (looking ****ed), and bangs on the window. He is getting pretty wet.

The Sgt. rolls his window down about one inch, slides the badge out, and

*zip*

up goes the window.

The ****ed off cop goes back to his car and takes off.

*end of story*


Personally, I was impressed that the sgt was so cool about it. Funny story though!
Hopefully, the holder of the offered-and-returned badge was of a rank FAR HIGHER than a Sgt, which would make this a FANTASTICALLY funny story!

Did I mention that I still work for a living and have NOT been promoted?! :D

mickmack111
07-27-2005, 03:18 AM
My personal way of informing another LEO that I'm an LEO during a traffic stop is to, of course, 10-2 on the steering wheel; then as they approach, I immidiately inform them that I have a weapon in the vehicle. They ask if I have a concealed handgun permit (TX), and I say "no, I'm a police officer. My badge and ID are in my wallet in my back pocket. Can I get it?"
This has always worked, the few times I've been pulled over. They've always let me go right after that. Big departments (Austin PD) and small ones appreciate it. Just a thought. That way, I'm not badging them, and they're relieved that I'm a cop. It also shows repect that I'm not hanging my shield out the window.

Redders
07-31-2005, 06:20 AM
My personal way of informing another LEO that I'm an LEO during a traffic stop is to, of course, 10-2 on the steering wheel; then as they approach, I immidiately inform them that I have a weapon in the vehicle. They ask if I have a concealed handgun permit (TX), and I say "no, I'm a police officer. My badge and ID are in my wallet in my back pocket. Can I get it?"
This has always worked, the few times I've been pulled over. They've always let me go right after that. Big departments (Austin PD) and small ones appreciate it. Just a thought. That way, I'm not badging them, and they're relieved that I'm a cop. It also shows repect that I'm not hanging my shield out the window.


I would agree that would be the best way to do the same here in Nebraska. At our training center they tell you there is no such thing as professional curtesy. Which is of course BS. I pulled and NSP Trooper over the over day and he said "I've got a gun in the car" of course my interest was instantly perked then he said "I'm a trooper, my badge is with the gun, my state ID and driver's license is in my wallet" Everything was good to go after that.

spanky14
08-01-2005, 05:11 AM
Please forgive me if this sounds stupid, it's my first time.

Being from a small town in the midwest, I have both given professional courtesy and not given it. The one and only time I have written a brother a ticket for a minor traffic offense was when he would not even allow me to tell him why I had pulled him over. The stop went like this:

I walk up to the car, and out comes an ID card. I recognize the card as being from a large city to the West of my town. I start to tell the driver why I had stopped him, and he said that he knew he was speeding, he was doing 56 in a 25. I then asked him for his driver's license, and he told me that he did not want to give it to me, and that his ID would do. At this point, I was still planning on letting him go. I again asked for his DL, and he again told me he did not want to give it to me, and that he would only give me his ID card. By this time, I was starting to get irritated, and again politely asked for his DL. I then told him that the traffic stop was on video, and that I needed to see his DL. The driver then handed me his DL along with his ID. I took the DL and gave him back the ID. I then went back to my patrol car and wrote him a citation. He was still cussing me as I got back in my car after having him sign.

That being said, I have more times than I can count, extended professional courtesy to officers from that same agency. I have also been on the receiving end of a citation after providing my ID with my DL. I knew I was speeding, and it was in a different state, so I accepted the citation and later mailed in my payment, along with a business card of course. I later found out that the court in Texas where I sent the payment changed the citation to a non-moving violation.

Dave2886
08-01-2005, 06:16 AM
I walk up to the car, and out comes an ID card. I recognize the card as being from a large city to the West of my town. I start to tell the driver why I had stopped him, and he said that he knew he was speeding, he was doing 56 in a 25. I then asked him for his driver's license, and he told me that he did not want to give it to me, and that his ID would do. At this point, I was still planning on letting him go.
Just out of curiosity, why did you even ask him for is license when you already knew he was a cop? Don't the police departments down there require their officers to have valid licenses? Besides, you said you were planning on letting him go, so what was your reason for wanting to see it in the first place?

I'm not condoning his behavior either, he should have just given it to you when you asked, but I have to say you could have avoided the entire nasty incident by telling him to slow it down and have a nice day as soon as you saw his police ID.

dvsmnstr
08-04-2005, 09:34 AM
usally around here (mid jersey) most of the guys that get pulled over have there hands in plain view, there badge on there lap (if you stick it out the window and the officer has the video going you get the "why did you let him go because he is a cop?") and just say i'm sorry officer then a few seconds of bs and both say there be safe's and off they go.

spanky14
08-04-2005, 05:26 PM
Two simple words. Department Policy. And I had a video camera rolling.

weiner
08-05-2005, 02:17 PM
Per my reply on another thread, I just gave my first ever citation to another officer. He was being a moron and popping wheelies at over 90 mph in heavy traffic on a saturday afternoon on his Yamaha.
In the end, he was lucky to get a single hit for the wheelie and not multiple felonies for reckless, endangerment and excess speed. If he had crashed, he would have gone straight to hospital and then jail if he lived.
Being a LEO on duty doesnt mean one can be a fool off duty.

fortisi876
08-05-2005, 06:53 PM
Hello All!

This is my first post here, I will admit this specific topic is what got me to register here.

I am a 15 yr LE veteran in the North Jersey area and reading some of the posts made in this thread just has me shaking my head. In my specific area, issuing a brother officer for a traffic violation is practically unheard of. Dont get me wrong Im sure it happens on occassion but we're also one of the most densely populated areas in the country so it doesnt surprise me that it does happen every so often.

In my 15 yrs Ive been assigned to various units/divisions including traffic and I can say without hesitation that I have NEVER issued a brother/sister officer a traffic summons whether they were state, county or municipal LEO's, retired or even out of state. NEVER!!! not once! Is NJ the only state that actually gives a LEO 'DISCRETION' on motor vehicle stops?

I dont know maybe I lean towards the old school rational, its just not right. We have so many JO's working against us (ppl in blue) that it boggles the mind on how ANY LEO can even consider for a second writing one of their own. I'll even go as far in saying that I have been spoken down to during a mv stop by a LEO, (he was so arrogant in thinking I was wrong for stopping him as if I knew he was a cop) rather than making the incident worse I chose to turn my back, get in my unit and leave. Even tho I thought he was a JO for giving me an attitude I chose to be the bigger man for the good of LE and walk away. I think when you write a cop it just starts an unnecessary war between two agencies.....is it really worth it?

Now with that being said, I will share my most recent experience:
I was recently pulled over and cited for speeding (78/60) in South Central Virginia on a 2 lane State Highway by a State Trooper. When I saw him behind me, I slowed down immediately which wasnt difficult since I was pulling a trailer and looked for the best place to pull over since there was no shoulder. He walks up to the truck stating his reason for the mv stop and requested the appropriate documents. I was cautious in being polite and said "yes Sir", asked my buddy to give me the registration and insurance since it was his truck and I gave him my identification along with the requested documents. He barely glances at my ID when he gave it back to me stating, " I wont be needing this. Ill be back with your speeding summons shortly". Before letting him walk away, (just in case he thought it was a courtesy card instead of my Department ID) I said to him, "Excuse me, I guess you dont consider giving courtesy to LE from out of state down here?" His reply was "Courtesy given is courtesy received. Where was the courtesy when you didnt abide by our local laws". :eek: Thats all I needed to hear and kept my mouth shut for the rest of the stop. I had two friends with me, I could practically hear their jaws bouncing off the floor, just to break the tension one of them said to me, "I cant believe Cletus is giving you a speeding ticket." :D After 10-15 minutes, (I got to admit I was still hopeful he'd do the right thing) he issued me my speeding summons.

Doesnt he know he wrote the very same guy that would of risked his own life (off duty AND out of state) if he saw him getting his @ss handed to him on the side of the highway or ANYWHERE for that matter???

I will be the first to admit that I was wrong, with that being said, I got to ask you guys/ladies.....has their ever been a time when a friend and/or family member lets you take their new car out for a spin, you look down and say holy crap Im going a lot faster than I should be???

Well, I had just jumped in the drivers seat of my buddies Excursion no more than 10 minutes prior and thats basically what happened....it didnt help that the highway we were on was 10 miles worth of rolling hills. I have no doubt that trooper hit me (radar) on the down slope of one of those hills. Its just not my character to drive that fast, for crying out loud, I drove the rest of the way home on I95 only doing 70-72mph.........and no, the ticket had nothing to do with that! :D

Since this incident, I am sorry to say that I have reevaluated the way I will be doing business with LE from Virginia, particularly the State Police. I believe its on every one of us to police our own when they do something this stupid.
I have atleast 10 yrs left in my career, I will be making several wallet sized copies of my summons to pass along with their summons if the day comes that I stop a Va. State Trooper.

All I can do when I think about this incident is shake my head in disgust, Ive let civilians go on much worse violations if their license was clean or if their had been a substantial amount of time since their last violation, both of which was the case with me.....putting aside that I am a LEO. It just doesnt make much sense to me but pay back will be a bitch for that agency now.

Be SAFE everyone!

sflcop
08-05-2005, 07:46 PM
Hello All!

This is my first post here, I will admit this specific topic is what got me to register here.

I am a 15 yr LE veteran in the North Jersey area and reading some of the posts made in this thread just has me shaking my head. In my specific area, issuing a brother officer for a traffic violation is practically unheard of. Dont get me wrong Im sure it happens on occassion but we're also one of the most densely populated areas in the country so it doesnt surprise me that it does happen every so often.

In my 15 yrs Ive been assigned to various units/divisions including traffic and I can say without hesitation that I have NEVER issued a brother/sister officer a traffic summons whether they were state, county or municipal LEO's, retired or even out of state. NEVER!!! not once! Is NJ the only state that actually gives a LEO 'DISCRETION' on motor vehicle stops?

I dont know maybe I lean towards the old school rational, its just not right. We have so many JO's working against us (ppl in blue) that it boggles the mind on how ANY LEO can even consider for a second writing one of their own. I'll even go as far in saying that I have been spoken down to during a mv stop by a LEO, (he was so arrogant in thinking I was wrong for stopping him as if I knew he was a cop) rather than making the incident worse I chose to turn my back, get in my unit and leave. Even tho I thought he was a JO for giving me an attitude I chose to be the bigger man for the good of LE and walk away. I think when you write a cop it just starts an unnecessary war between two agencies.....is it really worth it?

Now with being said, I will share my most recent experience:
I was recently pulled over and cited for speeding (78/60) in South Central Virginia on a 2 lane State Highway by a State Trooper. When I saw him behind me, I slowed down immediately which wasnt difficult since I was pulling a trailer and looked for the best place to pull over since there was no shoulder. He walks up to the truck stating his reason for the mv stop and requested appropriate documents. I was cautious in being polite and said "yes Sir", asked my buddy to give me the registration and insurance since it was his truck and I gave him my identification along with the requested documents. He barely glances at my ID when he gave it back to me stating, " I wont be needing this. Ill be back with your speeding summons shortly". Before letting him walk away, (just in case he thought it was a courtesy card instead of my Department ID) I said to him, "Excuse me, I guess you dont consider giving courtesy to LE from out of state down here?" His reply was "Courtesy given is courtesy received. Where was the courtesy when you didnt abide by our local laws". :eek: Thats all I needed to hear and kept my mouth shut for the rest of the stop. I had two friends with me, I could practically hear their jaws bouncing off the floor, just to break the tension one of them said to me, "I cant believe Cletus is giving you a speeding ticket." :D After 10-15 minutes, (I got to admit I was still hopeful he'd do the right thing) he issued me my speeding summons.

Doesnt he know he wrote the very same guy that would of risked his own life (off duty and out of state) if he saw him getting his @ss handed to him???

I will be the first to admit that I was wrong, with that being said, I got to ask you guys/ladies.....has their ever been a time when a friend and/or family member lets you take their new car out for a spin, you look down and say holy crap Im going a lot faster than I should be???

Well, I had just jumped in the drivers seat of my buddies Excursion no more than 10 minutes prior and thats basically what happened....it didnt help that the highway we were on was 10 miles worth of rolling hills. I have no doubt that trooper hit me (radar) on the down slope of one of those hills. Its just not my character to drive that fast, for crying out loud, I drove the rest of the way home on I95 only doing 70-72mph.........and no, the ticket had nothing to do with that! :D

Since this incident, I am sorry to say that I have reevaluated the way I will be doing business with LE from Virginia, particularly the State Police. I believe its on every one of us to police our own when they do something this stupid.
I have atleast 10 yrs left in my career, I will be making several wallet sized copies of my summons to pass along with their summons if the day comes that I stop a Va. State Trooper.

All I can do when I think about this incident is shake my head in disgust, Ive let civilians go on much worse violations if their license was clean or if their had been a substantial amount of time since their last violation, both of which was the case with me.....putting aside that I am a LEO. It just doesnt make much sense to me but pay back will be a bitch for that agency now.

Be SAFE everyone!

AMEN BROTHER!!!

mobrien316
08-05-2005, 09:08 PM
Apparently I view this issue differently than most.

When you are speeding and get pulled over by an on-duty officer that means you were doing something wrong, and the officer was doing his job by stopping you. There are two people at the traffic stop

gotthblues
08-05-2005, 10:11 PM
i know i will get hammered for this, but here goes,,i had just received my badge, 21yr old, just bought a crotch rocket, and got stopped by tx hwy ptrl. for well, just a little over the speed limit, on a divided hwy, i was northbound, he was southbound, i saw him, he saw me,,,i look over my shoulder and see him cutting the median, of course in just a few seconds i was out of sight, over a hill, i pulled over on the shoulder, turned off the bike, took off my helmet, got off the bike and stood there with hands in plain view, he pulls up,,one of his first questions was why i didnt keep going, anyway, as i was new, i had the badge wallet and everything in it (freekin rookie), i tried to hide the badge but he saw the wallet and knew what i was,,and insiisted that i hand him my badge and commis. card..anyway after a severe, severe *** chewin, he turned around and walked off, dont know why,,but after that, it had to be pretty severe for me to even think about handing out a hard card to another officer.

mobrien316
08-05-2005, 10:16 PM
i know i will get hammered for this, but here goes,,i had just received my badge, 21yr old, just bought a crotch rocket, and got stopped by tx hwy ptrl. for well, just a little over the speed limit, on a divided hwy, i was northbound, he was southbound, i saw him, he saw me,,,i look over my shoulder and see him cutting the median, of course in just a few seconds i was out of sight, over a hill, i pulled over on the shoulder, turned off the bike, took off my helmet, got off the bike and stood there with hands in plain view, he pulls up,,one of his first questions was why i didnt keep going, anyway, as i was new, i had the badge wallet and everything in it (freekin rookie), i tried to hide the badge but he saw the wallet and knew what i was,,and insiisted that i hand him my badge and commis. card..anyway after a severe, severe *** chewin, he turned around and walked off, dont know why,,but after that, it had to be pretty severe for me to even think about handing out a hard card to another officer.
So you think it has to be pretty severe for you to ticket another cop? There

fortisi876
08-06-2005, 12:43 AM
Apparently I view this issue differently than most.
With all due respect......thank God for that!

I think some people have a hard time understanding the difference between traffic violations and criminal activity. What kind person must an individual be to ever feel the need to issue a LEO a traffic summons? Thats what we're talking about here arent we? Does this same LEO ever give warnings to other civilians in the same predicament?
If yes, then what possibly can be the motivating factor in issuing a brother officer a summons? Doesnt like the way he looks? The way he speaks? The agency he works for? The initial eye contact?
I dont get it, Id like to understand why a LEO would ever feel the need to write a cop?

Can ANYONE answer that?

As far as being right or wrong at a mv stop, who's disputing that?
Ive let EVERY cop go without any hesitation, without asking for their documents once it was brought to my attention that they are 'on the job'.....why? cause these are the very same people I would count on if I was in need of assistance.
How the heck would you feel if you called out for assistance in the middle of the night and the one cop that gets there first to help you out of a jam would be someone you had issued a summons to? Pretty awkward no? That summons would seem pretty trivial at this point wouldnt it since he/she may have just saved you from a beat down or even worse...no?

I swear some LEO's take traffic too seriously at times, I agree control is needed obviously but discretion and some common sense as far as speed, location and weather come a long way in being an effective LEO or a JO.

Just my worthless $.02!

Delta784
08-06-2005, 12:49 AM
Id like to understand why a LEO would ever feel the need to write a cop?

Can ANYONE answer that?

Small penis syndrome.

SinePari
08-06-2005, 05:36 AM
I dont get it, Id like to understand why a LEO would ever feel the need to write a cop?

Welcome to the boards and if you do a search, you'll find EXTENSIVE chatter about VA State Police writing all LE including themselves. There is at least one member here claiming to be VSP but never chimes in on this topic.

fortisi876
08-06-2005, 09:19 AM
Thnx for the heads up SinePari, I was going to do that search when I first joined the site but then I got caught up in this thread. :)

The VSP must be a special kind of organization to be the way they are....... :rolleyes:

mobrien316
08-06-2005, 09:54 AM
I think some people have a hard time understanding the difference between traffic violations and criminal activity. What kind person must an individual be to ever feel the need to issue a LEO a traffic summons?
I would respond by asking what kind of a police officer feels that he is above the law? How can a police officer EXPECT and DEMAND immunity from traffic violations?


Does this same LEO ever give warnings to other civilians in the same predicament?
If there is an officer specifically targeting any one segment of the population, including cops, and giving that segment tickets for violations which only rate a warning to everyone else, that would be wrong.


If yes, then what possibly can be the motivating factor in issuing a brother officer a summons? Doesnt like the way he looks? The way he speaks? The agency he works for? The initial eye contact?
I dont get it, Id like to understand why a LEO would ever feel the need to write a cop?

Can ANYONE answer that?
I

fortisi876
08-06-2005, 06:34 PM
First of all, I never said anything about a LEO not backing you up so Im not sure where your pulling that from.
All Im saying is that if you wrote a cop and that same cop saves your hide/life down the road, I THINK it would make for an awkward encounter.
Officer who writes cops:
"Hey man thanks for the help, these two jokers were acting a little funny inside the car, did you see the gun under the floor mat? Anyhow thank you, whats your name again?"
Assisting Officer: Uhhhh Im the guy you issued a summons to 4 months ago.....

I think you're kidding yourself if you dont think it wouldnt be.

You keep bringing up 'expect' & 'demand' immunity, Ive never said either. IMO it goes beyond that I dont think any of us expect it, however, it should go without saying.

Can you agree on the fact that we arent the most popular occupation in existence?
If you're in agreement then why make unnecessary waves within our little blue community?
When it comes down to it, WE are the only ones who can count on one another when that time is needed.

"If there is an officer specifically targeting any one segment of the population, including cops, and giving that segment tickets for violations which only rate a warning to everyone else, that would be wrong."
My comment wasnt suggesting any type of targeting, I think you read too much into things or atleast what Ive written. All I meant by that comment is if a LEO ever gave a warning to a civilian that he wasnt willing to give to a LEO, I THINK its pretty messed up. And please dont compare us to civilians, Id like to think those of us in LE are a little more dependable if the time comes we need someone.

And just for the record, I worked with many guys who felt the need to hammer almost 80-90% of their stops, I dont believe even they would consider writing a cop. As for me, Ive hammered mostly just scumbags...ie. drunks, warrant suspects, suspected narcotic buyers, suspended drivers and the occassional driver in dire need of an attitude adjustment. Other than that, if they were respectful and it wasnt anything too crazy they went home with a verbal/written warning. I dont believe in hurting good tax paying people.

Again this is where DISCRETION comes to play, no where does it say we SHALL OR MUST write a summons.

Delta784
08-07-2005, 12:56 AM
And please bear in mind that I have never written another cop a ticket.

Why do I not believe that? :rolleyes:

I think I've made my position clear, but I'll repeat it here;

If I stop a law enforcement officer, I don't care if they're campus, town, city, county, state, Federal, whatever. I will NOT cite them, unless I'm backed into an impossible corner. The only exception to that rule is FBI Agents, who seem to do little more for law enforcement than taking our intel, and arresting cops for bull**** Federal civil rights charges. I'd hook an FBI Agent in a nanosecond.

For traffic stops;

Cooperative cop - "Have a good day/night, and stay safe".

Arrogant cop - "You should realize that I'm letting you go only because of the brotherhood between cops. Please don't abuse that brotherhood in the future, and treat other cops as you would want to be treated".

A-Hole cop - "I would never write another cop, so I'm not going to write you. However, I get off at 12am, and I'd be glad to meet you after that to settle our differences. Name the place".

Now;

Drunk cop - Drive him home, and store his vehicle in the police garage until the next morning.

Drunk cop involved in an accident that doesn't involve serious injury - Have him claim a head injury, go to the hospital, and refuse the blood test. Store his car in the police garage until the next morning.

Drunk cop involved in an accident that does involve serious injury - Call a supervisor. Do whatever the supervisor says, as long as it's a lawful order. That's why the supervisor makes the big $$$.

sflcop
08-07-2005, 01:37 AM
[QUOTE=mobrien316]So you think it has to be pretty severe for you to ticket another cop? There

mobrien316
08-07-2005, 10:38 AM
First of all, I never said anything about a LEO not backing you up so Im not sure where your pulling that from.
Look back at this thread and others with related topics. It seems that every couple of lines someone mentions that if you write a ticket to another cop you might be out on your own someday with only that cop to back you up. What is the inference to be made there? Why does that keep coming up if it is not in fact some sort of veiled implication that an officer who gets a ticket won

fortisi876
08-07-2005, 12:32 PM
[QUOTE=mobrien316]The way I would look at it is if I were given a ticket and then I ran into the officer on a stop, I would be embarrassed because, even though I

mobrien316
08-07-2005, 01:46 PM
Obviously, by reading your posts you're an intelligent person but I think you get caught up to the letter of the law a little too much. You should of went to law school cause you're a good debater! :) ;)
Before I go any further in this discussion Id like a couple questions answered, Ive noticed you've completely ignored one word Ive mentioned several times, DISCRETION. If the law gives a LEO discretion in a MVS how can you sit there and say there is nothing wrong with citing a LEO?
Do you EVER speed (yea Im talking 1+) off duty or even on duty but not going to call or commit any other form of moving violations?

Delta: Sorry guy but I got to disagree with the whole FBI thing, even tho I pretty much despise their work ethic as well. And dont even mention them in front of my Sgt!!! LOL!
I disagree because in reality the problem is with the upper management not S/A Joe Blow, with that being said some of them tend to be on the pompous side so I wouldnt be against letting them think they're going to be cited while Im scratching out a warning. :D
I don

fortisi876
08-07-2005, 09:09 PM
There you go again trying to rationalize for me.

As for the speeding question, Ill take that as a YES you do speed....
Again you should refrain from 'trying' to understand or guess why a particular question is asked. I asked it because I was just wondering if you happen to be down on luck and you got cited several times in one year for moving violations, got your license suspended and lost your job if you'd be whistling the same tune.

Im going to walk away now this is getting old.

winq
08-07-2005, 10:16 PM
Is NJ the only state that actually gives a LEO 'DISCRETION' on motor vehicle stops?

No....New York and most 99% of LEO's in the northeast. can't vouch for the rest of the USA. But having read the many a threads on these boards, I would have to say your chances of getting tagged are greater down south and out west. Just my observations

SinePari
08-08-2005, 08:41 AM
Is NJ the only state that actually gives a LEO 'DISCRETION' on motor vehicle stops?

In my area (MA) any badge of office will do. My penis is big enough without having to show my power over another LEO.

The funny thing about this thread is that we've all been stopped once or twice and we all EXPECT to get off no problemo. But when we don't we cry like little girls until someone comforts us knowing that officer was a ***** for doing so.

jarobins
08-08-2005, 09:33 AM
Welcome to the boards and if you do a search, you'll find EXTENSIVE chatter about VA State Police writing all LE including themselves. There is at least one member here claiming to be VSP but never chimes in on this topic.

Not sure to which member you were referring to. I usually just read this board but don't post much. I never chimed in because I don't feel the need to defend something that someone posts on the internet. Most stories are urban legends, one-sided, or told second-hand. I do know that some Troopers have written tickets to other LEO's, just as I know that some city cops and deputies have written tickets to off-duty Troopers. However, I refuse to spread gossip like a school-girl about situations in which I have no personal knowledge.

As mentioned in another thread, State Police and Highway Patrol have the stereotype as being opposed to PC. I can only guess it is because we come into contact with LEO's far more often than a city or county cop does. I stop on average about 2-3 LEO's per week, sometimes more. During "Bike Week" at Myrtle Beach I stop about 4-5 LEO's per day. I have only written 2 in ten years (for which I had my reasons) out of the hundreds that I have stopped. Yet, I am sure those two went back and bad mouthed the VSP and failed to tell the whole story. At the same time the others I have let go usually will not go tell their buddies that they got pulled for DUI and let go. So the only stories that get out there are the ones where the Trooper was jerk and wrote another LEO.

FWIW, I have been pulled over about a dozen times and the only negative encounter was with a town cop in SC. I got a written warning and after he called for two backup units he asked for consent to search. Although, I thought the situation was ridiculous I know the problem was with the individual and not the Department.

SinePari
08-08-2005, 01:30 PM
I never chimed in because I don't feel the need to defend something that someone posts on the internet. Most stories are urban legends, one-sided, or told second-hand.

Nobody's asking you to defend anything. This BB is for open debate and some good natured ribbing. I work for the SP and take as much as I dish out. When you have a large dept rumors and jabs will always be there.

PeteBroccolo
08-08-2005, 01:42 PM
As I have said before, I HAVE charged other LEO/PO - some from my Force, others from other PS. Some charges have been Provincial Statute traffic offences (stop signs, no bike helmet, seat belt), some have been Criminal Code offences (BAC Over).

I have also been stopped (speeding) and NOT charged, either because the investigator was a member of my Force and recognized me, or they figured out from my licence (out of jurisdiction), haircut and/or demeanour that I was an LEO/PO.

If the investigator CHOOSES to use their discretion, that is THEIR choice, IF they are able to. The charges that I have proceeded with per above are some of the top collision-related injury & death causal factors in Canada, plus my stops are recorded on video tapes which are reviewable by my supervisors, so I have litlle or no choice.

IF I deal with an LEO/PO for a situation where I CAN use more discretion (ie: minor equipment infractions or speeding) and is a situation for which I COULD, and HAVE, warned a civilian without charging them, then I WILL warn, and HAVE warned, the LEO/PO rather than give them a ticket.

As far as I am concerned, the BEST way for us to handle these matters is to NOT commit such violations when we are off-duty, but IF we have, then do NOT show ANY documents to the investigating officer OTHER THAN your drivers licence and registration. IF you carry your LEO/PO ID card and/or badge in such a way that they would be VERY noticeable while producing your drivers licence and vehicle registration, then CHANGE WHERE YOU CARRY THOSE DOCUMENTS, or CHANGE YOUR DRIVING HABITS!

IF we want to be considered by the public as honest, up-right and trusted members of an honourable occupation, then we HAVE to display such traits 24/7/365, and it is NOT that hard to do. Do NOT even try to mock me for sounding superior - I have made mistakes in my career, too, and am just trying to help guide the up-and-coming LEO/PO to avoid mistakes made, and problems caused for myself and others, by myself and other LEO/PO.

If we can't admit our past, and try to make ourselves, and others, better LEO/PO after learning from our past performance, then why are any of us still performing these duties?

gotthblues
08-08-2005, 04:07 PM
[QUOTE=mobrien316]So you think it has to be pretty severe for you to ticket another cop? There

SgtJohnnyLaw
08-09-2005, 01:21 PM
I've never written another LEO a cite and probably never will. I have arrested a few though...........

actiontrooper
08-10-2005, 01:55 AM
Please forgive me if this sounds stupid, it's my first time.

Being from a small town in the midwest, I have both given professional courtesy and not given it. The one and only time I have written a brother a ticket for a minor traffic offense was when he would not even allow me to tell him why I had pulled him over. The stop went like this:

I walk up to the car, and out comes an ID card. I recognize the card as being from a large city to the West of my town. I start to tell the driver why I had stopped him, and he said that he knew he was speeding, he was doing 56 in a 25. I then asked him for his driver's license, and he told me that he did not want to give it to me, and that his ID would do. At this point, I was still planning on letting him go. I again asked for his DL, and he again told me he did not want to give it to me, and that he would only give me his ID card. By this time, I was starting to get irritated, and again politely asked for his DL. I then told him that the traffic stop was on video, and that I needed to see his DL. The driver then handed me his DL along with his ID. I took the DL and gave him back the ID. I then went back to my patrol car and wrote him a citation. He was still cussing me as I got back in my car after having him sign.

That being said, I have more times than I can count, extended professional courtesy to officers from that same agency. I have also been on the receiving end of a citation after providing my ID with my DL. I knew I was speeding, and it was in a different state, so I accepted the citation and later mailed in my payment, along with a business card of course. I later found out that the court in Texas where I sent the payment changed the citation to a non-moving violation.
What is the definition of "professional courtesy" in Kansas? I was taught that the on duty uniformed leo is obviously in charge and the off duty or retired leo should be cooperative, respectful and compliant. During a traffic stop it would appear common sense for the off duty or retired leo to cooperate and have pertinent paperwork produced immediately and without question. In my home state if an off duty or retired leo from any jurisdiction is pulled over for a traffic infraction, is polite and civil, has a valid id, they are normally warned and admonished like any other citizen might be, and sent on their way. My one experience with the Kansas Highway Patrol would lead me to believe professional courtesy as I understand it is non existent, and one can expect a ticket if one makes any mistake, as far as traffic infractions go. Maybe professional courtesy has different meanings, or no meaning in some areas. There may not be a universal consensus? I always thought giving someone the benefit of doubt and giving a warning was more than enough. A little good will goes a long way.

BufordTJustice
08-11-2005, 02:38 PM
you gotta remember, alot of cops work in towns like mayberry rfd. one horse towns where your back up is barney fife. they dont understand the brotherhood because they dont experience the same kind of dangers that we face. they dont depend on each other as much as urban cops do. if you go to any major city like new york, boston, LA, san fran, seattle, detroit, miami, or tampa, professional courtesy applies. its all just a cultural difference and nothing we say or do will change the way things are. i live 40 miles away from my district station up in the suburbs and you better believe i watch my speed going home in my marked patrol car. things wont change. i'll just have to be careful. my only other alternative is to move back down south which im not prepared to do.

Get your head out of your ***.......small town, big city, state or whatever a cop is a cop and whether your dept. is 25 or 2500 we all take the same risks going to work. If you need more info on this take a look at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial webpage....lot of small town cops on there as well. Because you are a brother officer, I will extend you a little PC on your above comment and figured you must have had a brain fart to even write a idiotic statement.... :mad:

gotthblues
08-11-2005, 03:50 PM
Get your head out of your ***.......small town, big city, state or whatever a cop is a cop and whether your dept. is 25 or 2500 we all take the same risks going to work. If you need more info on this take a look at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial webpage....lot of small town cops on there as well. Because you are a brother officer, I will extend you a little PC on your above comment and figured you must have had a brain fart to even write a idiotic statement.... :mad:
true,,true,,,well put.

setexas
08-11-2005, 04:43 PM
Get your head out of your ***.......small town, big city, state or whatever a cop is a cop and whether your dept. is 25 or 2500 we all take the same risks going to work. If you need more info on this take a look at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial webpage....lot of small town cops on there as well. Because you are a brother officer, I will extend you a little PC on your above comment and figured you must have had a brain fart to even write a idiotic statement.... :mad:


I agree. He is suffering from a major case of cranial rectitus. Those of us that work in the county alone, with no backup handle more sh*t alone than he ever will. You try responding to a burglary in progress at 3am in the middle of the woods with no backup. When some of us call for help, it is far away and we are lucky if the radio hits the repeater.

gotthblues
08-11-2005, 05:02 PM
yup,,terds from the cities also hit small towns cause they know that officers are spread thin,, so its just as dangerous there as it is in the metro, the volume may not be the same, but the dangers are still there.

Omega4
08-11-2005, 07:43 PM
Get your head out of your ***.......small town, big city, state or whatever a cop is a cop and whether your dept. is 25 or 2500 we all take the same risks going to work. If you need more info on this take a look at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial webpage....lot of small town cops on there as well. Because you are a brother officer, I will extend you a little PC on your above comment and figured you must have had a brain fart to even write a idiotic statement.... :mad:

I agree that was one of my grips as a Military Police Officer. My "big city" civilian counterparts telling me I didn't "do squat" except check I.D. cards and write traffic tickets. I don't know how many times, due to manpower shortages, I responded to DV calls alone, alarm calls alone, person with a weapon by myslef. Oh we could get cover from our civilian counterparts on an "availability" basis. I will say that was east coast problem though. Here, SDPD was very responsive.

Omega4
08-11-2005, 07:50 PM
by the way. As an MP, you wouldn't believe how many retired or reserve military personnel are LEO's. I never ever wrote one for a LEO. One did kinda irritate me and I gave her the, "Ya know better speech" but that was it.

SkyCop418
08-12-2005, 01:01 PM
Sounds about right. I usually have hands on the wheel, interior light on and advise the officer that im on the job and that my duty weapon is on my hip and my creds are in my rear pocket. I have no problems with that at all. What are your feelings on "Thin Blue Line" Stickers??

mobrien316
08-12-2005, 03:57 PM
Sounds about right. I usually have hands on the wheel, interior light on and advise the officer that im on the job and that my duty weapon is on my hip and my creds are in my rear pocket. I have no problems with that at all. What are your feelings on "Thin Blue Line" Stickers??
To me, stickers implying any kind of police affiliation are worthless. I've pulled over lots of people who had nothing to do with police, but had a PAC, PAL, or thin blue line sticker on their car.

If I pull over an LEO or the spouse of an LEO, it is their responsibility to say something. I don't think it sounds right for me to ask.

Me: "Good evening. Before I write you a ticket, I just wanted to ask if you are a police officer or are in any way related to a police officer? Oh, you're not? In that case you will be receiving a ticket."

That just sounds bad.

gotthblues
08-12-2005, 04:08 PM
Me: "Good evening. Before I write you a ticket, I just wanted to ask if you are a police officer or are in any way related to a police officer? Oh, you're not? In that case you will be receiving a ticket."

That just sounds bad.
you mean they didnt teach you that in the academy! :D

SkyCop418
08-12-2005, 06:54 PM
I agree with you on the thin blue line sticker, i wanted to make sure i wasn't the only one who felt that way. I also agree that i shouldnt have to ask you if you are on the job but i also feel that you shouldnt just hang your badge out the window and expect to get away with it. Anyone ever hear about the NYPD/ NYSP war of the tickets??

Chase211
08-12-2005, 08:57 PM
I'm disturbed about BART's comments regarding "small" town cops. There's a thousand ways of thinking one is better than the other depending on the size of the department or city they work in.

My question is why? There's a lot of "small town" officers I know that I would rather go through the door with or have back me up than some of the "big town" officers. Of course, it's the other way around too.

We all do the same job, and risk our lives everyday...on and off duty. People who try to sound better than everyone else is probably in the job for the wrong reason.

Just my two cents....

SkyCop418
08-13-2005, 03:13 PM
I agree with ya'll. Small town, big town, university, airport, we all carry a badge and a gun and we all took an oath so to me if you're a cop you're a cop, I don't care if you are state, federal, small town or big town. I do expect that if stuff goes south that you be there to watch my back cause i'd do the same for you! I've seen some bad stuff happin in small towns and the officers handled it like any other officer would handle it and they got the job done and went home safely at night.

Matter is , i extend that professional courtesy to ALL cops.

To all : Keep going, and stay safe!

smallville
08-13-2005, 03:38 PM
We have a Sgt. on our job, female, who is nuts. As a PO she would write parking tickets to her fellow officers while they played softball. And, yes, she rarely extended courtesy.
Well, last week she went insane and wrote 1 of our detectives who used to be in her squad. The detective called the DO who ordered the Sgt. not to write the ticket. The good Sgt. called HQ to make a complaint against the DO and wrote the stop sign ticket.
Someone from the PBA reached out to her to ask why she wrote a fellow officer and asked her to do the right thing. Her reply?
She told them she would be 'tracking' the ticket and if they got it dismissed she'd go to the attorney general and media.
Can you believe this POS? :mad:

SkyCop418
08-13-2005, 03:52 PM
Wow :eek:

fortisi876
08-13-2005, 09:02 PM
Can you believe this POS? :mad:
Unfortunately yes.

Maybe someone needs to give her a taste of her own medicine.

TheMP5guy
08-14-2005, 04:47 AM
I can't believe cops who write cops. In my dept, this topic would have ended a long time ago with "we do not write eachother" If you want to teach someone a lesson on the rules of the road, stop the citizen who is oblivious to them, not the cop who drives a vehicle day in and day out for a living.

mobrien316
08-14-2005, 09:55 AM
Unfortunately yes.

Maybe someone needs to give her a taste of her own medicine.
I really don't get this. You are one of the many, many posters on this board who believe it is morally wrong to write another cop. Yet you are willing to do it for the sake of revenge.

Well, I suppose as long as you have a "good reason" then it's no longer morally wrong.

Shouldn't we do the things we think are right, regardless of what the people around us do?

fortisi876
08-14-2005, 10:21 AM
Wait a minute but you've been preaching that there is nothing wrong with a LEO writing another LEO so long as he or she is doing their job, right or wrong???

Cmon Obrien, you cant have it both ways, make up your mind already! :D

Perhaps if she was on the receiving end of a summons or two, she would be more inclined to thinking WTF??? And change her ways!
That may not happen on the first stop tho and Im sure it wont be her last moving violation. Heck someone with her mentality, she may have a suspended DL inside of a yr.

Incidently, its pretty obvious to me that you will 'never get it' when it comes to this topic. Mind you, its my position that those of you who dont are in the minority on this subject.

fortisi876
08-14-2005, 10:28 AM
Shouldn't we do the things we think are right, regardless of what the people around us do?
Id like to know how and when it is EVER right to issue a LEO when you are letting civilians go on the same violation. Not one of you LEO writers (or those who think its ok) have yet to reply to that.
Now if you have some @sswipe who writes EVERYONE all the time, well, that would make more sense to me.

cleetus0219
08-14-2005, 11:14 AM
Small penis syndrome.

LOL.

:p

cleetus0219
08-14-2005, 11:25 AM
I really don't get this. You are one of the many, many posters on this board who believe it is morally wrong to write another cop. Yet you are willing to do it for the sake of revenge.

Well, I suppose as long as you have a "good reason" then it's no longer morally wrong.

Shouldn't we do the things we think are right, regardless of what the people around us do?


Are you kidding? You think it's RIGHT to write one of us for speeding or changing a lane without a signal? Get a clue, dude. As Fortisi said over and over, we let normal people go for this type of thing all the time. There is no reason you HAVE to write another cop unless there are some severe circumstances- ie. you're on tape and the boss is up your ***.

Obrien- you and your boys that don't see the line between us and them, and how we need to stick together don't deserve to be riding around wearing a badge to begin with. You going to write your mother too?

Only one time in my career was I ever questioned about not writing another cop, and that was because my Lt was a guy like you that only saw statutes and summonses when he was on the road. He wasn't good for anything else either, just coming in with his 30 a month.

sflcop
08-14-2005, 11:26 AM
:mad:
We have a Sgt. on our job, female, who is nuts. As a PO she would write parking tickets to her fellow officers while they played softball. And, yes, she rarely extended courtesy.
Well, last week she went insane and wrote 1 of our detectives who used to be in her squad. The detective called the DO who ordered the Sgt. not to write the ticket. The good Sgt. called HQ to make a complaint against the DO and wrote the stop sign ticket.
Someone from the PBA reached out to her to ask why she wrote a fellow officer and asked her to do the right thing. Her reply?
She told them she would be 'tracking' the ticket and if they got it dismissed she'd go to the attorney general and media.
Can you believe this POS?

This amazes me. She would take a traffic citation issue all the way to the AG and the media? I do not understand people like this. Before everyone jumps down my throat... understand that I AM NOT condoning what I am about to say... but in my deparment she would have a very difficult time getting backup in a timely fashion from a lot of officers if that was her attitude. She would also find herself on the receiving end of many citations as she was coming to and from work, to and from the grocery store, etc. Her license would be suspended within 6 months, and that would be the end of her on the road. Jesus.... I do not understand LEO's that write other LEO's, ESPECIALLY ones that you work with day in and day out. How the hell did she get her stripes?!?!?! :mad:

mobrien316
08-14-2005, 11:36 AM
Reread my post.

I was simply asking, as I have in the past, why you would engage in an activity that you feel is wrong just because someone did it to you. If you truly believe it is wrong when "they" do it then why would you do it? Shouldn't you do what you feel is right regardless of how others act?

I am not trying to have it both ways. I don't believe there is anything inherently wrong with an officer enforcing the law in an impartial manner.

TheMP5guy
08-14-2005, 01:07 PM
I compare a cop who gives another cop a ticket to a cop who rats out another cop. By issuing us a ticket, your telling our supervisors that we did something wrong. Tell me, if you were on a call with your partener, and he did something unprofessional (minor) like swear at a citizen, would you then go run to you supervisor and tell? You cops who write other cops are so light that I'm guessing you would. I mean if your morals and work ethic are at such a high standard, then why wouldn't you tell, right? Get your heads out of your asses.

smallville
08-14-2005, 02:41 PM
Well, several yars ago she was ordered from the Prec. picnic because she wanted to cite cops for, 'open container' of beer.

KBeecher
08-14-2005, 04:19 PM
he did something unprofessional (minor) like swear at a citizen, would you then go run to you supervisor and tell?

Don't know about you but the officer who swears at a citizen, unless he's under a lot of stress having to fight with the guy at the time, will receive a *** chewing from me when we clear the call. When he acts "unprofessionally" or like the street puke he's addressing, then he makes me look bad and can cause me grief, either by escalating a problem or having to do paper for the complaint

I have no use for an officer who is not under stress using words to a citizen that we would arrest if someone else complained about the language he used.

But I would not go to a supervisor over it, unless it became a detriment to me or other officers on calls.

Either way, it sounds as if there is an officer who does not realize what Law Enforcement is about and that someone wants to play tit for tat. And its not good for anyone to have that type of garbage going on.

fortisi876
08-14-2005, 04:19 PM
unless there are some severe circumstances- ie. you're on tape and the boss is up your ***.
That must be one bored supervisor!
Anyway even then, it wouldnt take much to jot a note down on scrap paper stating that you're on tape and the summons will be taken care of in court.

On second thought, any supervisor who gives you sh@t about stats or suggests mandatory issuance of summonses should be put in check, its illegal to order someone to write summonses. Also, lets not forget about the discretion the law gives us whether on tape or not.

Dave2886
08-14-2005, 05:59 PM
I compare a cop who gives another cop a ticket to a cop who rats out another cop. By issuing us a ticket, your telling our supervisors that we did something wrong. Tell me, if you were on a call with your partener, and he did something unprofessional (minor) like swear at a citizen, would you then go run to you supervisor and tell? You cops who write other cops are so light that I'm guessing you would. I mean if your morals and work ethic are at such a high standard, then why wouldn't you tell, right? Get your heads out of your asses.
Amen brother!

Dave2886
08-14-2005, 06:09 PM
Don't know about you but the officer who swears at a citizen, unless he's under a lot of stress having to fight with the guy at the time, will receive a *** chewing from me when we clear the call. When he acts "unprofessionally" or like the street puke he's addressing, then he makes me look bad and can cause me grief, either by escalating a problem or having to do paper for the complaint

I have no use for an officer who is not under stress using words to a citizen that we would arrest if someone else complained about the language he used.
Are you kidding me? You must work in a nice area, because if you worked in a rougher area, you'd know that sometimes profanity is the only thing some people understand and respond to. I'm not saying that I swear at everyone, or that it's okay to do so, but SOMETIMES it is necessary and, in fact, seems to be effective. I do agree that if the situation was de-escalating and my partner started cussing at the subject in an inflamatory manner, that would irritate me, but I certainly wouldn't "chew his ***" over it. Unless you're a supervisor, or an FTO training a rookie, or maybe senior to the other guy by 10 years or more, you don't need to be chewing anyone's *** over something as trivial as profanity.

cleetus0219
08-14-2005, 08:02 PM
That must be one bored supervisor!
Anyway even then, it wouldnt take much to jot a note down on scrap paper stating that you're on tape and the summons will be taken care of in court.

On second thought, any supervisor who gives you sh@t about stats or suggests mandatory issuance of summonses should be put in check, its illegal to order someone to write summonses. Also, lets not forget about the discretion the law gives us whether on tape or not.

That was just an example of one of those situations where you are forced to do something. I HAVE had a boss order me to write a ticket once. Unfortunately, the guy that I wrote did not take it to court. I would have loved to say that my Lt ordered me to write the summons and have that recorded in court.

As far as I can tell, it is NOT illegal to have your boss order you to write a summons. I think it's insubordination to not follow a legal order. Unless you can find me written proof stating that no supervisor shall order a subordinate to write a summons, then I'm stuck following what they tell me to do whether or not I like it.

fortisi876
08-14-2005, 08:42 PM
you got PM! :)

TheMP5guy
08-15-2005, 12:55 AM
But I would not go to a supervisor over it, unless it became a detriment to me or other officers on calls.


You missed my point until you reached your above response. I just gave an example of someone being a rat, and you proved you wouldn't.

KBeecher
08-15-2005, 10:00 AM
I'm not saying that I swear at everyone, or that it's okay to do so, but SOMETIMES it is necessary and, in fact, seems to be effective. I do agree that if the situation was de-escalating and my partner started cussing at the subject in an inflamatory manner, that would irritate me, but I certainly wouldn't "chew his ***" over it.

I don't know of any place as a police officer that would be considered "nice", when you are working. Profanity is stooping to their level and shows you have lost control of the problem.

And if you worked with me and became a danger to me by using it and raising the level of the confrontation you would get an *** chewing from me. I didn't care if you were junior or senior, you made it unsafe for me and I would not allow that from you or anyone else.

Its real simple, if you couldn't do anything but contribute to the problem I didn't want you there as a backup. And if you did it once, you would do it again. Dealing with persons under stress was hard enough without a big mouth badge happy cop agitating them.

KBeecher
08-15-2005, 10:06 AM
You missed my point until you reached your above response. I just gave an example of someone being a rat, and you proved you wouldn't.

Up until the time the officer did it again, it would be a simple *** chewing, but if it continued without his trying not to do it, then it would be his supervisor that would be doing the *** chewing. I have been there and done that as they say, as an FTO and as a street officer. Was never happy with it but if it was necessary due to officer safety it was done.

I didn't write other officers unless it was required by policy. And since catching you speeding was not a mandatory ticket, nor were most of the others, I didn't write them.

As I expressed in past, anything that was criminal and there was no laditude by our policy, domestic violence and Dui's with accidents are two that come to mind, I was free to do what I felt was necessary.

Rally
08-17-2005, 05:49 AM
I don't know of any place as a police officer that would be considered "nice", when you are working. Profanity is stooping to their level and shows you have lost control of the problem.

And if you worked with me and became a danger to me by using it and raising the level of the confrontation you would get an *** chewing from me. I didn't care if you were junior or senior, you made it unsafe for me and I would not allow that from you or anyone else.

Its real simple, if you couldn't do anything but contribute to the problem I didn't want you there as a backup. And if you did it once, you would do it again. Dealing with persons under stress was hard enough without a big mouth badge happy cop agitating them.

I agree with Dave in terms that no type of language should be used to escalate or create a dangerous situation. I don't think that is what Dave was saying. But is using swear words wrong? I say no. And like Dave said it is a necessary evil. It lets them know you are serious, but should not be used if the situation does not call for it.

I am new to this website but I see such different views. I know, I know, everyone is different, different regions yadda yadda yadda......But does a lot of disagreement come from highway police VS. non-highway police. I am not a highway officer, but since I do pull traffic once in awhile, if it's purely a traffic stop, meaning I have no interest in arresting the driver, it's usually always a different person. A city cop deals with a lot of the same outstanding citizens every day, and I usually don't start the conversation with "Good morning Mr. ****bag, I'm Officer....."

What do you guys/gals think? Am I way off?

KBeecher
08-17-2005, 09:26 AM
And like Dave said it is a necessary evil. It lets them know you are serious, but should not be used if the situation does not call for it.



I really don't see where the use of profanity makes someone think you are serious. When a violator uses it to me, I know he has lost control. Even he knows that he could and in some cases is arrested for the use of words that offend or would want someone to retaliate physically.

Not only does it show lack of control, it shows the judge, jury or your supervisors that you lost control and there might be a problem with anger control or management. And why would anyone want to give their supervisors another reason to call them on the carpet or give them some costly time off. My understanding of most agencies is that there is a little clause known as "we are not positive you were wrong but we think you were so we are going to give you some time off to think about it." Goes under the heading of "and other actions that cause discredit to the agency."

Sorry, where I worked we got along with the Highway Patrol and even there policies were clear about the use of profanity toward citizens. You don't do it.

Either way even if the violator is not offended, what about the onlookers who are? They hear it and make the complaint because they were offended by the language. Too bad, but it does happen and most departments would take action on it.

TheMP5guy
08-17-2005, 08:31 PM
I really don't see where the use of profanity makes someone think you are serious. When a violator uses it to me, I know he has lost control. Even he knows that he could and in some cases is arrested for the use of words that offend or would want someone to retaliate physically.

Not only does it show lack of control, it shows the judge, jury or your supervisors that you lost control and there might be a problem with anger control or management. And why would anyone want to give their supervisors another reason to call them on the carpet or give them some costly time off. My understanding of most agencies is that there is a little clause known as "we are not positive you were wrong but we think you were so we are going to give you some time off to think about it." Goes under the heading of "and other actions that cause discredit to the agency."

Sorry, where I worked we got along with the Highway Patrol and even there policies were clear about the use of profanity toward citizens. You don't do it.

Either way even if the violator is not offended, what about the onlookers who are? They hear it and make the complaint because they were offended by the language. Too bad, but it does happen and most departments would take action on it.

I agree that sometimes it is necessary. Try talking to a gang banger while trying to build the foundation of raport. Talking police lingo will not cut it. You have to talk at their level if it means conversing with them using swear words or directing it towards them. Sure, not the average Joe Blow who you stop for speeding, use common sense. Never say never and never say always, there is a circumstance where you should use it and should not.

Dave2886
08-19-2005, 12:05 AM
I agree that sometimes it is necessary. Try talking to a gang banger while trying to build the foundation of raport. Talking police lingo will not cut it. You have to talk at their level if it means conversing with them using swear words or directing it towards them. Sure, not the average Joe Blow who you stop for speeding, use common sense. Never say never and never say always, there is a circumstance where you should use it and should not.Thank you! That's what I've been trying to get across. I think it should go without saying that it's a bad idea to use profanity in a situation where you're being recorded (traffic stops) and/or onlookers can hear it. And like I've already stated, it's definately bad to use it when it's only going to escalate the situation. Obviously, you've got to use common sense, but apparently I've got to spell that out for some people here. :rolleyes:

All I'm saying is that SOMETIMES, it is helpful, and in fact, is the only thing that some people understand. It's hard to communicate effectively with someone if you're not talking the same language, and the simple fact is, for some people profanity is an integral part of their language.

RSS603
08-19-2005, 01:08 AM
I've been "on the job" in metro ATL for 15 years, and from my experience, the best way to go is to have the job ID card behind the license, or in some other plain view area (not the badge itself). That way, the uniformed officer can see it and ask if you are on the job or not.
If you dont have the ID card, down here we have laminated P.O.S.T. certification cards which we are required to carry, these could be useful also. Like someones else wrote earlier, after speaking to the driver for a few minutes, a vetran officer will usually be able to tell.
Now, we did have a few rookies who had their license photo taken in uniform, but that's another story.....

marshaldan
08-20-2005, 05:33 AM
I have had it with this. You act like a decent human being, you skate.
If you are really deserving, I will write your agency describing your actions. I will not cite you.
I am quite sure that yore agency will have a talk with you.

LATIN COP
08-22-2005, 02:42 AM
Am still a rookie I work in Fl. North of Orlando. I believe any person who is LEO should be given a break. Just because of the brother hood and I give a lot of civilians enough breaks every day I try to balance the number of ticket's I give to the number of break I given. One cop a month I give a break should not hurt anyone feeling's. I haven

TheMP5guy
08-24-2005, 07:46 PM
Cops do NOT write other COPS. Period. If you need a ticket that bad, you have problems.

Ladies and gents, I believe that sums it up.

mobrien316
08-24-2005, 08:24 PM
Cops do NOT write other COPS. Period. If you need a ticket that bad, you have problems.
Rather than summing it up, I would submit that thinking this way is the problem.

You can feel free to ask for a break if you get pulled over. The cop pulling you over may choose to give you a break. But it does not come with the badge. You are not immune to the traffic laws just because you enforce them.

What is the difference between an off-duty officer who becomes upset when he is pulled over for speeding and gets a ticket, and a wealthy person who gets upset when he is pulled over for speeding and gets a ticket? Both people are refusing to take responsibility for their own actions; both people have a sense of entitlement that they believe should exempt them from minor offenses such as traffic violations. The only difference is that the cop

mobrien316
08-24-2005, 08:45 PM
Seek help troll.
Well, that bit of logic sure convinced me of the error of my ways.

Do you have any sort of intelligent reasoning behind blaming the guy who is just doing his job? Or is it simply that your sense of entitlement is so firmly entrenched that you have never bothered to think of any justification at all?

I'd like to hear some of the reasons for your beliefs, reasons that you would be proud to repeat in front of TV cameras or the local Police Commission or City Council. If there's nothing inherently wrong with the police believing themselves to be immune to minor traffic offenses then surely you or anyone who shares your beliefs wouldn't be timid about speaking out publicly about them, right?

gotthblues
08-24-2005, 09:13 PM
[QUOTE=mobrien316]Rather than summing it up, I would submit that thinking this way is the problem.

You can feel free to ask for a break if you get pulled over. The cop pulling you over may choose to give you a break. But it does not come with the badge. You are not immune to the traffic laws just because you enforce them.

What is the difference between an off-duty officer who becomes upset when he is pulled over for speeding and gets a ticket, and a wealthy person who gets upset when he is pulled over for speeding and gets a ticket? Both people are refusing to take responsibility for their own actions; both people have a sense of entitlement that they believe should exempt them from minor offenses such as traffic violations. The only difference is that the cop

fortisi876
08-25-2005, 02:22 AM
disregard....... :rolleyes:

ICE-MAN
08-25-2005, 03:47 AM
Last time I checked we all put on our gun belts on the same way and we all have to deal with the same Police Problems every day. I dont know about other area's in the U.S. but in my area in Central Florida my agency and other agency work together hand in hand. So we have a lot of professional courtesy with each other. I would like to hear from a NYPD guy on the subject of professional curtesy.

actiontrooper
08-25-2005, 05:12 AM
Hi Ice-Man. The unwritten standard operating procedure is to extend professional courtesy no ifs and or buts. Are there some rare individuals that write parkers to other officers in front of the precinct station house? I do recall one such nut nearly 20 years ago. He seemed to love to write tickets to fire and police mos right in front of the station house, even when instructed not to by supervisors and union delegates. He was transferred to a galaxy far far away...I'm sure he enjoyed his new job writing mos summonses in the other borough. Sure there is the rare loon that has it out for his fellow LEOs, usually an emotionally unstable and not too popular character. Is there the rare NYPD officer that may write an out of state officer or fellow NYPD officer? Possibly. They may exist and are the rare exception. If so let us know on NYPD rant. We'd be very unhappy to hear of a NYC cop writing another cop a ticket. We'd also be very unhappy to hear of an NYPD officer being anything but curteous and hospitable to a visiting LEO from another state. We are, of course, trained the uniformed officer is in charge and should be treated with respect. When that happens there usually isn't a problem. I don't think anyone is encouraging leo's to disregard traffic laws but we are taught to exercise discretion, and part of that discretion is recognizing that we are entitled to warn and admonish anyone, and police personnel fit in that category just as well as any other citizen. I never wrote a law enforcement officer a summons. No friend or relative of mine on the NYPD did. I didn't think the offending officers were above the law. I just felt if they were risking their life and were a target in uniform just like me. The next time we might have met was at one of our funerals. They didn't need a ticket to educate them to traffic laws, they probably already know about traffic laws. Everybody, including LEOs make inadvertent mistakes, even when driving, I think that is a given. I understand where mobrien316 is coming from, although I'd be coming from a slightly different perspective. Professional courtesy isn't an entitlement, but is a viable option at one's discretion that I'd strongly encourage. I know quite a few former NYPD officers now employed in law enforcement in Florida, and I'd hope they are still honoring professional courtesy there. I know a good friend working near Orlando that has assisted on duty officers on more than one occassion while on his way to work in uniform. I know I'll always owe him for the countless times he had my back during gun runs and shootings and I have the privilege of being alive to be writing this. I'd hope another LEO would take that into consideration and extend him professional courtesy, without having to know he was there for me when bullets were flying. That's the way it should be on or off duty, whether in one's home state or visiting elsewhere... try to stick together, back each other up and stay safe. I know when I die I won't be reflecting on the one cop I could have written a ticket, I just might be reflecting on the brothers and sisters in uniform that made a lasting impression on my life.

TheMP5guy
08-25-2005, 10:30 AM
Well, that bit of logic sure convinced me of the error of my ways.

Do you have any sort of intelligent reasoning behind blaming the guy who is just doing his job? Or is it simply that your sense of entitlement is so firmly entrenched that you have never bothered to think of any justification at all?

I'd like to hear some of the reasons for your beliefs, reasons that you would be proud to repeat in front of TV cameras or the local Police Commission or City Council. If there's nothing inherently wrong with the police believing themselves to be immune to minor traffic offenses then surely you or anyone who shares your beliefs wouldn't be timid about speaking out publicly about them, right?

I guess you will never understand what it means to look after eachother, on or off-duty. What's the point in reasoning with you. You obviously do believe in p/c because you said you've never written a cop, so why are you contradicting yourself?

mobrien316
08-25-2005, 10:53 AM
I guess you will never understand what it means to look after eachother, on or off-duty. What's the point in reasoning with you. You obviously do believe in p/c because you said you've never written a cop, so why are you contradicting yourself?
I am not contradicting myself. I have repeatedly said that when I pull over a cop I introduce myself, ask them where they work, and tell them to have a nice night. But, if I am pulled over by a cop, I do not expect them to grant me immunity from the traffic laws. That is not a contradiction; they are two different things.

Even though I choose not to ticket other cops, I don

backinblue
08-26-2005, 12:57 AM
Although I would not write another officer a citation that doesn't mean some don't tick me off. I've had other officers hold their badge out the window and fly by while I'm running radar. This ticks me off to no end, and sometimes I pull the car over to verify but I don't write other PO's tickets. I don't think its the right thing to do because if I saw another officer in need of help on duty or off, gun or no gun, no matter what agency I would be the first person out of my car backing them up as I think we all would do right?

fortisi876
08-26-2005, 04:24 PM
[QUOTE=mobrien316]Or was it when I said I wouldn

mobrien316
08-26-2005, 05:02 PM
I gotta ask you a couple questions (and please do not read into anything this time around just answer them plainly)......Basically you're saying if you were given a citation for, lets say, speeding you'd be ok with it cuz you know you were wrong, yes?

If yes, whats the likelyhood of you breaking another traffic violation soon afterwards?

Explanation will follow later.....
I don

fortisi876
08-26-2005, 09:00 PM
[QUOTE=mobrien316]I don

mobrien316
08-26-2005, 10:59 PM
Thnx for answering.

IMHO, I think 99.9% of drivers break some sort of traffic law more times than they give themselves credit for. If they're so careful in not speeding (1+ over the limit) then Id be willing to bet they're probably obstructing the flow of traffic somewhere, ultimately breaking another violation.

So basically, I think you probably break more traffic laws than you'll ever care to admit or possibly dont even pay much attention to, possibly, like making that quick lane change without a signal. Or maybe BS'ing on the cell phone or even failing to wear your seatbelt.

Im quite certain if the 'majority' of LEO's had your rational and you kept getting hammered for the littlest violations which resulted in your DL getting suspended and you ultimately fired........call me crazy but I think you'd start seeing things our (the majority as you put it) way. I think you should count your lucky stars that the majority see it MY/OUR way cuz that's just plain ole job security for you.

When I was in traffic, 99% of my stops were for pc, not traffic STATS........I certainly never busted hard working Joe Blow civilians balls so I'd sure as hell would NEVER bust a cops balls for something Ive let hundreds of civilians off on. Right wrong who gives a *****?
You dont write cops (= sworn officers/agents)......EVER..........PERIOD!

You

fortisi876
08-27-2005, 12:58 AM
I already aknowledged that you do NOT cite other LEO's.
I guess Im just clueless on trying to understand how you can think its ok when one does, thats all.

As for the "MY/OUR", in your own post above you had already seemed to alienate yourself from those of us who disagree that its 'ok' to cite a cop, when you said, "I apparently disagree with the majority of the posters ". There was nothing strong or negative about it, just pointing out the differing of opinions. I think you just have a habit of overreacting to certain posts/verbage, not completely your fault since reading something on here doesnt always get a specific point across as easily as when your standing face to face with someone.

Oh and your 1+ mph remark was a little confusing to me, speeding is speeding right? Or is it just wrong after a specific mph?
The bottom line is, if the majority cops agree with you thats its ok to write cops for breaking traffic laws (i.e. technically that'd be 1+ over for speeding) then Id just about guarantee if you kept getting hammered and your job is at risk then even you would not find it okay anymore.
Everyone breaks traffic laws...EVERYONE not just cops.......so when I hear ppl talking about right and wrong it just doesnt make much sense to me.

MC34
09-02-2005, 02:10 AM
Hello,
I have read this post and site on & off for some time now and am very interested in hearing the different brother/sister officers views on this topic. Alot of great info and opinions all around. However, a few days ago my somewhat still 'idealistic' view of the treatment one would get from some 'brother/sister officers' was ruined. I have been in LE for six years, and am a motorcycle/traffic P.O. who does a fair amount of ticket writing. I have never cited a LEO... I do not beleive LEO's are above the law, but discretion is ours people, and there are PLENTY of real bad guys out there to catch. I have attended and taught multiple trainings w/ cops from all over, and now a day later I'm going to write you, if I catch you speeding, when we could be side by side fighting for our life together on the side of the road??? Come on, I know I'd stop and help you off duty and most would probably do the same...not many other types jobs can say that they share that camaraderie . The reason behind my loss of faith is a ticket written to my sister by a state trooper in Virginia. She is a police officer also, who was driving with our elderly mother and her 5yr old daughter, to TN to visit family. She was stopped, ID'd herself w/ her license and LE Id only, and was extremely polite, apologized and explained that she was driving for day #2 and trying to beat the incoming hurricane, and still had another 7 hours to go. The trooper could've cared less, gave her back her LE ID, and came back 10 minutes later w/ a cite for speeding. When asked about any prof. courtesy he said he gave it to her by taking 5 mph off her speed....and he was a boss, no less... I know she was wrong for speeding and courtesy isn

BufordTJustice
09-02-2005, 12:24 PM
[P.S. When she asked another trooper down the road some about if this lack of PC is a common thing in this area, his reply.....'I don

MC34
09-02-2005, 06:07 PM
Yep, and I am sure they would be the first ones to throw their badges and ID's at you if one of us stopped them down the road. Seems to be an ego thing. :mad:[/QUOTE]

Absoluely, and one day they will definately be pulled over, at the mercy of another LEO, who more than likely, will consider them a brother P.O. and give 'em a break. And I'm sure they'll take it.....
P.S. When mentioned, to other guys on my job, I found out 3 others have been cited in VA by SP...what gives??? :mad:

actiontrooper
09-19-2005, 11:44 AM
Maybe someone from the Virginia State Police can explain their actions and policies? Car stop #1 The NYPD was travelling through Virginia, with only the lead car with the turrets on in the left lane, and the ENTIRE caravan was pulled over by the Virginia State Troopers.

The Troopers then proceeded to read the riot act to the NYPD personnel for driving in the left lane and using their turret lights. Seems the Troopers only use their lights when responding to "real emergencies", and we weren't authorized to use them. So the NYPD group had to proceed in the right lane with no lights.

Now bear in mind that Virginia was the only state that didn't give us a Police escort through their state. Va carstop #2 "On the way down to NO we were stopped by a trooper sgt from va and he stated "we know what you do up north and we don't do that here" that was after id ing ourselves and what we were doing he also stated"I don't care if you are in a marked car (we were not) we will ticket you"he also ran the name of the driver on his computer and told us that we were lucky that the trooper in the county next to him was off that night. After he let us go then followed us for a little bit.
What gives in Virginia?

hiroller
09-20-2005, 08:54 PM
The few times that I have been stopped in california (three in 10 years by the CHP) After they asked for my drivers lic,reg and proof of insurance I tell them my duty weapon is in the glove box....2 times it worked and one time he stated I should know better...So I took the ticket like a man.

ACCREDMGR
09-20-2005, 10:56 PM
I don't make a habit of getting pulled over for the main reason that I DO NOT like being detained against my will. But if it does happen, I get my get my license/insurance out, and close my wallet. As they are looking at my license but before they leave to go back to the squad car I have said in a humble manner, "I am not looking for any preferential treatment but just letting you know I work for _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ PD. Although it may be implied that I'm asking for a break, my main point is to let them know as a COURTESY that they have nothing to worry about with me during the stop. At that point they ask me to see my ID and I'll show it. From then on it's been "ok take care". But I know full well that he doesn't owe me anything and if he decides to write me, I won't be extremely happy about it but like the last guy said, just take the ticket and go on.

I've been stopped on the shoulder waiting before the squad car even finishes turning around. And like someone else said, you can pick out someone in our business. The guy came up to my car and simply asks "What Department You with" before even seeing any ID.

What I do not appreciate though, and this is probably for another thread all together, is when PC gets based on b.s. And these type of guys give the rest of us a bad name. Driving home from work one night I was about a mile from my house, in a residential neighborhood. It was late, around 3:00 A.M. I stopped for the stop sign, made a complete stop by the way, and soon enough the squad was lit up behind me.

This kid comes up, probably no more then 22 years old even though he looked about 16. Usually I change at work but this time I'm in my uniform but wearing a spring jacket. This kid has my license and is looking it over, and I'm waiting for him to say why he stopped me. Finally he says "I pulled you over for going through that stop sign back there." I was so stunned that he said that, my immediate reaction was to say "What.....Get the #$%^ out of here" with a puzzled/eyebrows raised look. I think he was so shocked that the violator was not all about "Yes sir, Yes officer...." He didn't know what to say, he goes with an even dumber look....bottom lip hanging down..."What?" I said "You and I both know that I stopped just fine for that stop sign". Now, as I said that I'm showing my badge/ID and he saw inside my jacket. This kid looks just like he got busted on candid camera. Smiles and hands my stuff back and giggling, he says "Yeah......you got me, I'm just hunting for drunks".

Now the thing that aggravates me the most is he admits he's making things up to look for drunks. How many others are out there hassling innocent people? Worse, and I'm not advocating drunk driving by any means, but if I was some stupid drunk, that stop sign ticket was the false PC ticket. That officers integrity is out the window with me!

JLFINFAN
09-21-2005, 12:41 AM
In Oklahoma, I've pulled over several officers before. They showed me their badge. I'd ask to see their commission card to verify. After that, I'd ask them to have a safe evening.

I was pulled over a few weeks ago. I was speeding and should have been paying attention. Fortunately, I was in uniform heading home from work. I was apologetic. The officer looked at me, smiled, and said "Have a nice evening."

I'm guess I'm lucky in the sense that when I've pulled over other LEOs, none have been jerks about it. While some "flashed the badge", they tried to be discreet about it.

The problem I'm having is pulling over the 17 year old daughter of a fellow officer and friend. I've popped her twice for speeding in the last 10 days. I have not cited her, since she is on her father's insurance and I certainly don't want to jack up his rates. Hell, he'd probably have to fork out at least part of the $$$ for the ticket anyway. (He has enough problems at home as it is.) But I don't want her to think she can get away with flying down the highway either. I told her next time I'd be talking to her Dad when he comes in to relieve me on shift! :)

SMOKEROX
09-21-2005, 12:58 AM
Cops do NOT write other COPS. Period. If you need a ticket that bad, you have problems.

DAMN RIGHT! That is "REAL COPS" do not write other cops. Period.

In no other single profession, that I can think of, is there as much liability to what you do both "ON and OFF-DUTY" as there is in law enforcement.

I'm NOT a drinker, personally. And I want to be clear on that because I'm not out there being hypocritical or asking to skate around the rules for my own benefit.

However, I have never and will never jam up another cop for driving drunk or under the influence.

Park his car on the road and drop him off at the station for him to call a ride? Absolutely! And, for the record, I'll cover my *** on paper in case it comes back. It's not like I'm drawing blood levels on the street where I'm boxed into forcing me into an arrest.

You lock up a cop for drunk driving, you "F-UP" his whole career.

The normal citizen gets popped for D.U.I. or some driving offense and it has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING OR EFFECT ON HIS/HER PROFESSION. Even a load hauler or truck driver will get a judicial driving permit and still be able to perform their job requirements.

You JAM up a COP and you just wiped out his career, pension, and worse, his family's ability to survive financially.

And for any of you that do jam up cops, especially on some PETTY AZZ CIVIL INFRACTIONS--TRAFFIC ONLY--that mandate the use of discretion, you should be ASHAMED of yourselves.

And no matter what lies you tell other people, when you look at yourself in the mirror, you know damn well you ain't no real cop! You're just playin' DRESS UP like it's F-IN HALLOWEEN!

cleetus0219
09-21-2005, 01:51 AM
Did that really happen in Virginia? I can't believe any cop would treat another like that. It sounded like he went out of his way to f with those guys. That is ludicrous.

I'd be ****ed if some guy gave me a ticket for speeding, not using a blinker, or some other grab *** violation, plain and simple. I give other guys breaks, and yes- I do expect a break myself, unless I did something completely absurd.

I guess the northeast is a little different. We seem to have respect for one another, and don't get annoyed that officer X was breaking traffic laws "in MY town," or "on MY roads." The guys that take traffic violations personally have some issues they need to see a shrink for, which seems to be the case with the Virginia guys and other 'super troopers.'

actiontrooper
09-21-2005, 10:19 AM
cleetus0219, please be assured that the story I relate is true, factual and MANY uniformed NYPD officers witnessed the event. This is in stark contrast to the professionalism, co-operation, and respect shown by members of your homestate of NJ that stopped the caravan for the following reasons, to a) shut down the bridge b) help the caravan into NYC. I have also included the response from the Virginia State Police. I do not allege, as Mr.Cox does, that a Hallifax Deputy Sheriff was the officer that pulled over the caravan, that is the Virginia State Police response. Dear Officer:

Lieutenant Colonel E.A. Stockton, Director of the Bureau of Field Operations for the Virginia State Police asked that I thank you for and respond to your e-mail of September 20, 2005 regarding the recent caravan of police vehicles stopped in Virginia.

I regret your displeasure with the actions taken regarding this incident.

All troopers are trained and encouraged to use professional discretion in the execution of their duties as a police officer in that they may warn, summons or arrest for violations coming to their attention. Our troopers are urged to set high community standards both in their careers and in their personal lives by conducting themselves with professionalism, ethics and decorum.

The vehicles in question were stopped by an Augusta County Sheriff's Deputy in part, due to complaints received through our communications centers regarding the legality of the vehicles and the unsafe manner in which they were being operated, and after the vehicles were recorded traveling in excess of 90 mph with their emergency equipment activated.

The Department of State Police has a responsibility to promote highway safety in our Commonwealth and the actions taken by our trooper appear to be supported by the factual information regarding this matter.

It is also the policy of the Virginia State Police to investigate all allegations of misconduct of troopers and take appropriate action as deemed necessary.

Bud Cox
Business Manager
Virginia State Police
804-674-2127
Bud.Cox@vsp.virginia.gov
I am not certain if the caravan in question had NYC buses in the caravan. The buses have a governor set at 55mph, though. His response verifies the story, although with some dispute as to alleged actual speed, did in fact occur. NYPD officers in the caravan state the caravan was traveling at approximately 65mph. I have a few questions of my own... Has it been ascertained a Augusta County Sheriff's Deputy was the officer that pulled the caravan over? It has also been reported that the caravan was pulled over twice in the state of Virginia. Does anyone know the facts at hand. That would be important in refuting Bud Cox's allegations of the caravan going "in excessive of 90mph". If this is the case the memo book and sworn affidavit of the trooper or deputy in question can be subpoenaed to ascertain the true facts in the case, since willful mistatements of fact by the officer in question either written or orally would constitute misconduct and "It is also the policy of the Virginia State Police to investigate all allegations of misconduct of troopers and take appropriate action as deemed necessary."

cleetus0219
09-21-2005, 12:04 PM
That is ridiculous.

First, how can it be "reported" that they're going in excess of 90mph? Did a civillian pace them, or was it some concerned citizen that just thought they were going that fast because they're used to doing 35 in the fast lane?

If the dispatcher or whoever took the initial call of these awful "speeders" had any balls at all they would have told the concerned citizen that if the lights are activated on an emergency vehicle, get out of the way and let them go about their business.

WTPD3534
09-21-2005, 01:18 PM
That doesn't surprise me one bit. I've told this story before on here, but a few years ago my partner along with a few other officers from my dept were driving to South Carolina for SWAT training when they were pulled over by VA State Police in their MARKED UNITS and given speeding tickets. I can't even imagine doing something like that. What is in the water down in VA?!

COLDONE
09-21-2005, 05:05 PM
As long as the MOS is modest they get a break every time. I don't want any attitude, we get that enough already. A simple 'you got me, I'm sorry' and credentials will suffice.

ocsd69
10-02-2005, 06:01 AM
Its so sad to see other LEO writing other LEO :( , There are sooooo may A holes out there you can write, MY thing is i dont write COPS ,Fireman, Doctors, Military, Teachers, Family Members of LEO And people that show me respect.

njpd
10-02-2005, 11:44 AM
To all those who defend the actions of VSP Troopers in general.

Please understand where us northern state cops are coming from.

VSP troopers have a reputation of not giving us cops up north professional courtesy. Us northern state cops did not created this reputation. Obviously, enough incidents have occurred between VSP troopers and off-duty northern state cops where there have been numerous situations where no professional courtesy was given and the only thing that was given was a summons, a lecture like we were a child, and an nasty attitude.

We also understand that NOT ALL VSP troopers are like this. But it seems to me that enough VSP troopers have created this reputation for their entire department.

There were few VSP troopers who posted on another thread which is now closed, explaining to us all that they have never given another officer a ticket and asked us not to judge their entire department based on the actions of a few. They also state that 99.9% of their collegues do not write tickets to cops. Unfortunately, that is very hard to believe.

Like I mentioned before, enough VSP troopers have given other cops tickets where a reputation was created. The few VSP Troopers who have given other cops professional courtesy should really look at their department and try to understand why they have that reputation. Us northern state cops just did not make up that reputation.

That being said, you guys also need to understand the anger from us northern cops about the 2 recent incidents regarding the convoy from NY and NJ. These 2 incidents, unfortunately for the VSP troopers, have given the reputation of showing no professional courtesy to us northern cops, an exclaimation (for a lack of a better word) for their already created reputation.

In my personal opinion both incidents involving all departments could have been handled differently. I wasn't there like most on this forum, so how it should have been handled is difficult to say.

Look, we don't hear about NY,NJ,MA,PA,etc. etc., etc. cops having a reputation of giving southern cops tickets. Yes we all do have few aholes that give other cops tickets and thats in all departments in all states. But it's not enough, to have a bad reputation like the VSP.

Majority of the cops up north will, regardless of the bad experiences with VSP or other southern departments, always give that professional courtesey, regardless of where your're from. On the same token, don't be surprised if one of you southern cops, esp from VSP, receive the "same professional courtesy" VSP troopers give us northern state cops.

BOTTOM LINE IS PEOPLE, WE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT HAVE THE GREAT POWER OF DISCRETION . USE IT ACCORDINGLY. IF IT IS NOT AN EGREGEOUS OFFENSE, PUT YOUR EGOS ASIDE AND JUST MOVE ON.

WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME SIDE. WE HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE THAT CAN'T STAND US OR WANT TO FIGHT US, LET'S NOT DO IT TO EACH OTHER.

STAY SAFE AND STAY ALERT. :)

cleetus0219
10-02-2005, 12:03 PM
(insert whole post here)

Excellent post.

Delta784
10-02-2005, 12:39 PM
For those VSP people that are apologizing for the actions of a "few" of their bretheren, you should instead spend your time applying some good old peer pressure to your wayward co-workers.

Just recently, we had a clueless rookie that wrote the daughter of a fairly high-ranking state police officer. It almost ended in a blanket-party when he tried to turn-in the citation. He now knows better.

Mike 842
10-02-2005, 02:10 PM
I've read thru these posts on PC and I'll say this: In 24 years spent in Patrol, and a good portion of that time as a Sergeant, I've NEVER written another Policeman, sheriff's deputy or state trooper a traffic ticket. I've never written one to an Officer's immediate family member or to doctors, nurses or firemen either. To those that state their Lt or chief wants them to write L.E., when things go bad, as they very often do, it's not going to be the Public information Officer or asst chief, or anyone else up there in that tower that will respond to get your cookies out of the fire, it's going to be a street cop,on duty or off, remember that. If we don't look out for each other, no one else will.

universitycop02
10-02-2005, 05:22 PM
However, I have never and will never jam up another cop for driving drunk or under the influence.

Park his car on the road and drop him off at the station for him to call a ride? Absolutely! And, for the record, I'll cover my *** on paper in case it comes back. It's not like I'm drawing blood levels on the street where I'm boxed into forcing me into an arrest.

You lock up a cop for drunk driving, you "F-UP" his whole career.

The normal citizen gets popped for D.U.I. or some driving offense and it has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING OR EFFECT ON HIS/HER PROFESSION. Even a load hauler or truck driver will get a judicial driving permit and still be able to perform their job requirements.

You JAM up a COP and you just wiped out his career, pension, and worse, his family's ability to survive financially.


I'm sorry but I have a big problem with this one. Speeding and other infractions sure show some PC. But when it comes to DWI I'm sorry he/she is going to jail, no if's and's or but's about it. He/She should know better then to get behind a vehicle after they have been drinking. Alot of things can be let go, I.E. speeding, etc, however DWI isn't one of them. If the officer loose's his job, etc over it then I'm sorry, they shouldn't have been driving drunk.

winq
10-02-2005, 05:52 PM
I'm sorry but I have a big problem with this one. Speeding and other infractions sure show some PC. But when it comes to DWI I'm sorry he/she is going to jail, no if's and's or but's about it. He/She should know better then to get behind a vehicle after they have been drinking. Alot of things can be let go, I.E. speeding, etc, however DWI isn't one of them. If the officer loose's his job, etc over it then I'm sorry, they shouldn't have been driving drunk.



"Sigh"........that all i can say (see NJPD's post)

universitycop02
10-02-2005, 06:34 PM
"Sigh"........that all i can say (see NJPD's post)

I read the post. I also said in my post alot of things can be let go, however DWI isn't one of them. We as officer's are no better then anyone else. IT seems from reading this post that alot of you think you are, however you are not. Just because you carry a badge and a gun doesn't mean you can go out and do whatever you want. Let me ask, why do all of you that cry about PC think you are better then anyone else out here on the street? Do you not put your pants on one leg at a time?

At our training for this year we got into a big talk about PC, and one of the departments that were in the class with us was talking about how a ADA was stopped for speeding and given a ticket, the ADA of course thought he shouldn't get a ticket for 96 in 55 because he was the local ADA. We all agree'd the officer was in the right by writing the ticket.

cleetus0219
10-02-2005, 08:24 PM
I read the post. I also said in my post alot of things can be let go, however DWI isn't one of them. We as officer's are no better then anyone else. IT seems from reading this post that alot of you think you are, however you are not. Just because you carry a badge and a gun doesn't mean you can go out and do whatever you want. Let me ask, why do all of you that cry about PC think you are better then anyone else out here on the street? Do you not put your pants on one leg at a time?

At our training for this year we got into a big talk about PC, and one of the departments that were in the class with us was talking about how a ADA was stopped for speeding and given a ticket, the ADA of course thought he shouldn't get a ticket for 96 in 55 because he was the local ADA. We all agree'd the officer was in the right by writing the ticket.

Oh god, one of these guys.....

If dis here fella runs throo MAY town, he'll be gettin' hisself a ticket. May moms wuda gots herself a ticket too.

The ONLY time you have to lock up a drunk cop is when he's involved in a multi-vehicle or major crash with witnesses present.

And by the way, how can you guarantee 100% the guy is drunk in the field anyhow?? You can't. It all comes down to discretion, proper report writing, and not being a rookie anymore. It'll come with time bro.

universitycop02
10-02-2005, 08:34 PM
Oh god, one of these guys.....

If dis here fella runs throo MAY town, he'll be gettin' hisself a ticket. May moms wuda gots herself a ticket too.

The ONLY time you have to lock up a drunk cop is when he's involved in a multi-vehicle or major crash with witnesses present.

And by the way, how can you guarantee 100% the guy is drunk in the field anyhow?? You can't. It all comes down to discretion, proper report writing, and not being a rookie anymore. It'll come with time bro.

Pretty funny, however I've never heard anyone talk like that. But you guys up north keep on telling yourselves that you think we talk like that.

I've arrested enough DWI's that I've got a good idea from SFST that they will blow over the .08 limit. There again it bothers me that other cops think just because they are cops they can break the law, drive around drunk etc. Like I said before, minor traffic offense's can be over looked, DWI however, is not going to be over looked.

ocsd69
10-03-2005, 01:13 AM
I've stopped people for DWI, parked there car and got them a ride home, And i would do the same for every LEO out there. DWI's can be over look providing there are no car accidents or peds struck. You mean to tell me in your life time you have never had 1 or 2 drinks and got behind the wheel DUI?

winq
10-03-2005, 02:06 AM
You mean to tell me in your life time you have never had 1 or 2 drinks and got behind the wheel DUI?[/QUOTE

If he did that he would have to lock himself up :)

cleetus0219
10-03-2005, 11:03 AM
Those guys down south hold themselves to a higher standard too. I'd not be surprised if they turned themselves in.

Dave2886
10-03-2005, 04:22 PM
My hero...

fortisi876
10-03-2005, 04:30 PM
Alot of things can be let go, I.E. speeding, etc, however DWI isn't one of them. If the officer loose's his job, etc over it then I'm sorry, they shouldn't have been driving drunk.


We as officer's are no better then anyone else. IT seems from reading this post that alot of you think you are, however you are not. Just because you carry a badge and a gun doesn't mean you can go out and do whatever you want. Let me ask, why do all of you that cry about PC think you are better then anyone else out here on the street? Do you not put your pants on one leg at a time?

Am I the only one who sees a flaw in these two statements?
One minute you're saying its ok to let cops go on specific traffic violations and then the next you're asking dont we all put our pants on the same way. Which is it going to be?
Either you are a HYPOCRIT or you're not. Personally, I think ALL LEO's are hypocrits to an extent, I also think anyone who doesnt admit it is full of *****!

Im at the point of thinking that possibly you guys that work in smaller or less populated areas need to have stricter views in certain violation than others just to keep you going. I got involved in LE to help people MORE than hurt them, in my 15 yrs Ive never lost focus of that. So yes, there have been certain times under special circumstances that I have let an operator who was possibly DUI, park his car and call a cab or friend. Unlike you who will see the negaive side of that action, IMO, I think I just improved the image of LE to one guy. Rather than getting caught up with what the academy or some book insists on doing, every one of us have discretion.....USE IT!
Time of day, location and attitude comes a long way in who gets wood and who doesnt.

UniversityCop: I know you're a PRO in the DUI field but let me ask you something, how stupid are you going to feel that one time a LEO doesnt blow .08?

Again barring any accidents/witnesses, I dont think giving anyone especially a LEO a break hurts anyone. If your paths cross a second time thats a different story.
Lastly, I really wish I can call BS to all you guys who say that a LEO MUST get hooked if DUI........Im willing to bet a weeks salary if you're working the night of a Departmental function and one of your bosses were two sheets to the wind, Id bet your candy @sses wouldnt do a thing about it, except the right thing possibly.

universitycop02
10-03-2005, 04:46 PM
I'm curious though, how do you personally determine who you lock up for DWI? Do you do SFST's only, or do you have a portable alco-sensor as well? Assuming you do, because someone as 8-up as you are for DWIs would naturally buy his own if his agency didn't issue him one, what is your threshold for taking someone? I know what the limit is, but I'm asking you at what point do you decide they've got to go for a ride with you? What I'm getting at is, have you never given a civilian who blew a .09 on the road a break? Or do you lock them up anyway, and watch them blow .07s downtown?

Aside from being on video/audio and obtaining PC for the stop, I do perform SFST's along with an alco-sensor reading. We have alco's in each car, and they are calibrated every 30 days. Threshold for taking someone down? .08 or higher, even if they blew a .07 or lower when I'm done with the test. Half the time they refuse the intoxilyzer anyways after getting there so if they had blew a .08 on the road with the alco then they may still have been at a .08 or lower, however they just screwed theirselves by refusing. I've never let anyone who blew a .08 or high walk. We have went to trial on DWI charges where the person blew a .04 and was convicted off of the officers video which showed the guy falling down numerious times.


And since you say you do DWIs all the time, how many times have you seen someone you really didn't think was that drunk, and then they blow .14s? I'm not saying it's okay to drive drunk, and I definately think we need to be aggressive with locking up people who are truly intoxicated and dangerous, but I would submit to you that not everyone is truly drunk at .08 or even .10. Some people are not fit to drive at .05. The point is, we have discretion for a reason, and to not use it to help out a cop is ridiculous.

See it all the time, get the same story, how much you had to drink tonight sir/miss, oh only 2 beers and that was about 2 hours ago. I've only had a few (probably enough to count on both hands) that have blew .08 - .10, the rest usually blow .10 up to the last one I had blew a .31 twice 30 minutes after the fact. Yes we do have discretion, however I draw the line at DWI.


What good are you accomplishing by locking a cop up and potentially ending his career, when all he did was make a stupid mistake? Are the roads any safer than if you just let his sober girlfriend drive, or call a friend, or a cab or just give him a ride home? Jail is not always the best answer, even for civilians, not just ourselves.

As I stated before, this is something I take a hard stand on, I'm willing to let alot of things slip, however a officer driving drunk isn't one of them. You and everyone else can think what they want, however at the end of the night I can still go home and lay my head down and sleep at night.



Oh, and would everyone else please not let this toolbag worsen our already negative reputation down here? I assure you, at least in the city I work, most of us are not dicks like that, and we do take care of eachother, whenever possible. Sorry for the long post.

So let me get this, I'm a dick becuase I won't cut another cop a break for dwi? Its not wonder the public already has a bad taste for cops in the first place. I nfact I could really care less what anyone thinks, because I can go lay down at the end of my shift and not have to worry about if that cop I let go that was drunk killed someone down the road. I can also tell you that I know alot of other officers, county, city and state that feel the same way as I do. I guess thought the rest of you don't want to hear that, as it appears cops should just be allowed to do whatever it is they want to with nothing being said to them.

universitycop02
10-03-2005, 04:55 PM
One minute you're saying its ok to let cops go on specific traffic violations and then the next you're asking dont we all put our pants on the same way. Which is it going to be?
Either you are a HYPOCRIT or you're not. Personally, I think ALL LEO's are hypocrits to an extent, I also think anyone who doesnt admit it is full of *****!

Any profession you go into has its benefits, you work at a resturant you get free food, etc. Law enforcement is the same way, however just like at a resturant you have to draw the line, you don't want your employee's eating your best steaks everyday for a meal. And I draw the line for PC at DWI.


UniversityCop: I know you're a PRO in the DUI field but let me ask you something, how stupid are you going to feel that one time a LEO doesnt blow .08?

None at all, I don't feel stupid for a citizen on the street if they do, so why would I feel any different?

fortisi876
10-03-2005, 06:01 PM
None at all, I don't feel stupid for a citizen on the street if they do, so why would I feel any different?
Well that wouldnt surprise me, the difference between us is that I wouldnt have brought in anyone (let alone a LEO) if it was a borderline dui job.

MemphisCop
10-03-2005, 06:11 PM
OK...let's see here....Once again, from the Land of Elvis, who was incidentally, a Reserve Shelby County Sheriff Captain, among other things.........

MY professional courtesy viewpoint, as many VETERAN officers down South, is this:

Firstly, as far as whether you're in East BumF**k, TN or Memphis, that really shouldn't matter. They use NCIC and NLETS too, and should know what it means to be a police officer. That means that in our own jurisdictions we face SIMILAR hazards, which are relative to the community, even differentiated in the city by what ward you work. Where I work, in the "hood", its common to handle 15 to 20 calls a shift, multiple shootings, agg assaults, rapes etc, including fighting with suspects, drunks and whoever. After awhile, even THAT becomes routine. In the more affluent sections of the city, they deal mostly in report calls, shopliftings, traffic tickets, etc. , dealing with a different class of folks who usually don't fight them, appreciate their presence and make their tour of duty a bit more pleasant. In the rural little towns, once again, the occasional "Floyd's drunk again", or Molly hit Ed, traffic stops and dope stops don't make their jobs easier, just different. Neither one of those two might not SEE a shooting, let alone be shot at, or work one, BUT they can be shot, run over or die on duty, just as easily as we in the hood, maybe with less frequency, but that wouldn't make them any less dead. With all that in mind, I further clarify the "professional courtesy" by saying that John Q. Public does NOT risk his life every day when he goes to work, and that alone gives me the "officer's discretion" in whether to write or not to whomever I choose, based of course on severity.

Now I give 99% of us the credit of having enough common sense to discount the "Well if the officer committed a crime....." bullsh&T. We all know that all bets are off in that scenario, as well as if it's an accident and someone has been hurt. If I stop a DUI officer, and it hasn't been an accident, and no one has been injured, I'm gonna get his dumb as& home, not to jail.

The easiest sign that the speeder is a cop is the "FOP" or "PBA" tag on their car. That doesn't even warrant more than a wave from me and turning off the blues when I get close enough to see those tags. I don't lecture another officer or his family member on what they should have been doing, and don't want them to do the same to me or my wife. She puts up enough with the sleepless nights when I'm held over the shift with 40 calls down...The argument about not having those tags because "Then the bad guys know you're the po-leece and they F&ck up your car" is more BS. I've had FOP tags for over 9 years and never had a scratch put on or anything messed with.

So, if I do have to walk up there, I'd rather not have the badge sticking out the window. I personally would rather have the ID and badge shown to me with their license. A cordial exchange usually ensues and , might ask for a patch or pin, and always have one in return for out of area officers, then on your way you go. Sentinel makes a good point about the stolen badge, and if that's the case, the bad guys wouldn't have the D/L to match.

That's it. Simple. No B/S, no lecture. I figure he's had enough where he works, and that's probably why he's on vacation or driving through anyway.

So, my Northern brothers, y'all get the picture up there? It's not a North/South thing, it's an individual thing. The Thin Blue Line doesn't stop at the Mason-DIxon line.

www.memphiscop.com


Stay safe

universitycop02
10-03-2005, 06:16 PM
Well that wouldnt surprise me, the difference between us is that I wouldnt have brought in anyone (let alone a LEO) if it was a borderline dui job.

Not sure how it works in your state but here you have wait 30 minutes after arrival at the intoxilyzer room to give the test. You go through a set of questions then they give first breath, machine calibrates its self and you give second breath. In this state you take the lower of the two, so if someone is a 0.09, .08 by the time they are done they can be below the legal limit. It all depends on how your body acts with alcohol. I've had people that blew .10 on a alco on teh side of the road, but by the time the room is open (only two intoxilyzers, you wait your turn) they were down to below the legal limit.