Reserve Police Officers

[IndianaDeputy]

Is there a general acceptance of Reserve Officers in your department and are they given full police powers ?

[packpolice]

They are ok in a pinch, when under staffed, or working a special event or check point. Otherwise my experience has not been so great wth them regarding attitude towards police work.

[Frank Booth]

I don't have a problem with them as long as they don't have a problem with me coming to their union job on the assembly line and bolting on bumpers for free for a shift every now and then.....I always wanted to be a shop rat, but I don't like lifting heavy things.

[18C3V]

Originally posted by packpolice
They are ok in a pinch, when under staffed, or working a special event or check point.

I agree with that. I usually find them lacking in report writing skills but usually most of the guys are using the reserves as a stepping stone to our dept.

[JohnKelly]

I can't answer or comment on this question, because Police Forces in Australia do not have Reserve Officers or Special Constables and nor are they ever likely to have them. Any attempt to introduce unpaid labour would result in strong objections and possible industrial action from the various Police Unions throughout Australia.

However, I find it facinating that there are persons who are prepared to carry out police duties without payment and I would like to hear from members of other Police Forces, such as the UK, on how Reserve Police/Special Constables are regarded in their part of the world.

[retired]

For the most part the reserves in my department were well trained and they didn't interfere in the OT for the regulars, nor did they take away jobs from the regulars.

[retdetsgt]

I agree with Frank Booth, they're scabs... If they have full police powers and used as regular police, they are taking away jobs. You have some guy out there doing for free what you do for a living... No amount of rational is going to change that. I think it also reflects on the professionalism of a dept. when they put free labor out there.

I like to weld, but I suspect some of the reserves that are welders would scream bloody murder if I came to their shop and started working for free. I might not take away his job, but it would allow the owner not to hire someone else as his business expands because I'm working for nothing. If you want to play police officer, do it in your back yard with your kids.

My dept. uses them for special events as security guards, directing traffic at those events, etc. They are NEVER used to take police calls.

Jim

[Vtfuzz]

I have nothing but good things to say about reserves/part-time officers. Working in a severely understaffed department it helps us out immensly having part-time officers come out an lend a hand.

For the life of me I can't see how anyone could say they steal jobs, when in my opinion they aid in giving us a break. It is nice having a part-timer work so I can actually have a day off.

[Frank Booth]

I have nothing but good things to say about reserves/part-time officers. Working in a severely understaffed department it helps us out immensly having part-time officers come out an lend a hand.

Why are you so accepting of reserves if your department is so understaffed????? The answer isn't to get free labor to help out with the low priority stuff, or even, God forbid, take calls as retdet implied. The answer is to get an ordinance passed that requires the police department to have a minimum staffing, or "X" amount of officers relative to the population or number of calls you get per year. The answer is to HIRE MORE COPS!! If Northwest Airlines were understaffed in the pilot department, would you fly on a 747 piloted by a "reserve" who isn't getting paid and only flies 8 hours per month to "help out" because he likes to wear a uniform and fly an airplane around? And if you tell me that reserves aren't out there to play police, but rather to "give back to the community", maybe you can tell me why you don't see any in plain clothes, unarmed, answering the phone at the desk so another officer could be free to take calls....

[MK219]

I am not speaking on behalf of reserves/auxiliary/ specials, etc..

I can see where Frank and retdetsgt are coming from, but I disagree with parts of the complaint. Where I "work" as an auxiliary we are unpaid officers. We mainly do un paid details such as church crossings, Parades, and other traffic situations. Yes, my city is atleast ten guys short on their roster. The budget cut forced them to not replace them. Response time is not as good as it can be. Back-up time is "scary". Point being we need more paid cops, but that is not going to happen. Hey I'd love to be one of those paid officers.
But the fact is what we do doesn't interfere with anyones in the CITY pay. When there is a paid detail to be filled, and the city doesn't have any full-time, reserves, retirerees, it then goes to sheriff, state, or neighboring agencies. We don't even get asked. When the city does "go outside" for details, the city LOSES money, the UNION loses money, and the PD loses money. If we could do the details the Union, the CITY, and the PD can all get their "cut" of the cash.

The only policing we do is Night Patrols. We patrol Municpal property, parks, schools, etc. Does this cross into the regular territory, YES. We can make arrests, but since we don't get paid for court, and we don't get paid enough to handle the liablity, we call the regulars to make the arrest. That doesn't mean we can't or don't, but the prefer response is to call the regulars. This actually means we are just extras ears and eyes for the departments.
We also do stuff that the regulars DON"T want to do. Christmas night last year we got a HUGE snow storm. We were called out to baby sit power lines and fallen trees. You think that the regulars wanted to leave their famlies Christmas night, NO WAY! But we went out there, not for power, glory or fame, but because we do care about public safety.
It is cool to put on the uniform, strap on a gun, and wear the badge. I get a rush everytime I put on the uniform. But we do the boring stuff. All for public safety, and the love for the job, and yes, to gain experience so we can have a better chance to get that 1 job opening that 10,000,000 in Massachusetts are trying to get.

As far as the actual RESERVES. In my city you pass the Civil Circus, and get hired by the city. Once you go through all the BS you become a reserve. go through the full-time academy, you do paid details. but you are just a reserve. Once their is an opening, you now have a chance to be full-time. Its the city way of hiring.

[Photogrrlz]

I myself am a reserve officer and I dont feel we take away from any full time officers. As a township we cant afford to staff many officers as full time so alot of mids are filled by reserve officers who come out and work the weekends and all the odd ball shifts. Also, I am looking into getting a full time position but I need something to keep my certification good at the same time so thats where alot of reserves come from. I take great joy in the work I do and often times I am out more than 1 time a week and work more than a 8 hour shift.

[ofc129]

We have only a few reserve officers, a throwback to the old days, and once they are gone they will not be replaced. Apparently a couple of them pulled something stupid a few years back and that was the end of that. They are only used at special events such as Mardi Gras or the state fair, etc., and occasionally do ride-alongs. The ones I know of off the top of my head are/were full-time officers at other departments that do not afford them the "excitement" our bigger jurisdiction does.

The county uses reserves, and they have a minimum requirement of hours they have to ride each month, but they ride with a full-time officer. It's funny that alot of guys go that route thinking they'll get hired on quicker, but it doesn't work that way unless they know somebody. Why pay somebody when you've got them working for free? By the same token, however, I don't think those jurisdictions with unpaid reserves with little/no police powers are depending on them to the point that they aren't hiring new full-time officers, particularly the smaller jurisdictions. Let's face it, small towns/counties don't have alot of revenue coming in to support it, no matter how much it's needed. Washington County, just north of here, has only 8 deputies and is VERY poor. They couldn't afford any more if they wanted to because the tax base just isn't there.

Kristen

[retdetsgt]

They'll get the tax base for cops, if you make them. Saying that there wouldn't be policing if it wasn't for the reserves is not true.. It takes, on the average 1.5 police per thousand to police an area. If a jurisdiction is understaffed, the public will at some point get wind of it and pay for it.

Oregon is a tax revolt heaven. Schools are closing early, the legislature is wringing it's hands trying come up with a budget after a 750 million shortfall. BUT, every time there is a levy for police, it passes, everytime. Same for fire protection, people will pay for that. But as long as administrators are able to use free labor, they will.

And to say if it wasn't for reserves, you couldn't get a day off, check your labor laws..... If you didn't have reserves and you called in sick, the chief, sheriff, whoever would HAVE to have paid people available to take your place. He would go to the city, county or whoever and you can bet they would come up with money if there was no one out there to protect the jurisdiction. But a reserve is putting someone out of that job.....

Jim

[Frank Booth]

If one of the benefits of having a reserve program is that they do the jobs that the cops don't want to do, how come you never see them in the jobs that don't require a gun and a uniform? I do this job for a paycheck. People who do it for free to wear a gun and a uniform kind of scare me. And why do reserves never anwer that universal question: "What do you do for a living, and how would you feel working with someone who would do it for free?" As far not being able to find a cop who would want to babysit downed wires on Christmas for triple time holiday pay: Don't bet on it. Also: I talked to one reserve a long time ago who told me that as long as one cop was laid off, he and his colleagues would never work a detail. Well, when the layoffs came, and the busy downtown event season came, guess who was walking around downtown in a uniform?

[MK219]

Originally posted by Frank Booth
"What do you do for a living, and how would you feel working with someone who would do it for free?"

I work for a supermarket stocking shelves. I was a manager, but stepped down to persue LE more. As far as someone doing it for free. PM me and I'll give you the address, I'll even let you have my Sticker gun. Could use the help. Unfortunely the uniform isn't as flashy:D

Don't get me wrong Frank, I do understand what you are saying. But I think in moderation reserves/ auxiliary is a good thing. If the Union gets concessions and the reserves/ auxs don't get too big they can get along fine:)

[Watchman]

It takes, on the average 1.5 police per thousand to police an area.

You got that correct.

If a jurisdiction is understaffed, the public will at some point get wind of it and pay for it.

Thats probably true.

We have 30 fulltimers for a population of around 50,000. So,technically, we are staffed at maximum level. State law allows for 1 reserve for each fulltime officer. Right now we have 20 reserves. Due to being spread so thin, we are talking about putting on 5 more.

All we are doing is agumenting the force.

More often than not there are is least one reserve on shift. Often times that all the "backup" there is. Our reserves get into all the same crap that fulltimers do, although we dont do near as much paperwork. Yeah, we take calls. Not one time that I'm aware of has any member of the public ever known the difference. I know I am not as proficent as someone that does it day in and day out for a living. But you know what ? The stuff aint rocket science or nuclear technology. I equate it to being the same as a military reservist. A couple of drills a month and some occasional training. If a shooting war erupts, the enemy will not know the difference if he is killed by a reservist or a 20 year veteran.

Same with the thugs. All they see is the handcuffs you just put on them. Then they start worrying about Bubba at the jailcell who hasnt had a woman in a few years...

[retdetsgt]

The stuff aint rocket science or nuclear technology.

I agree It's not the ablity of the reserve officer to do the job that I'm talking about. But as a couple of us keep harping, how would you like someone coming to where you work and doing the job for free?

As I stated before, after I retired, I took some welding classes and got pretty good at it. I even have a certificate that says that. But you talk about *** whipping in the "Ask a cop" area, what kind of *** whipping do you think I'd get if I showed up at a shop, pulled out my gear and started working for free? I hate to even think about it!

[Deputy757]

Originally posted by Watchman
But you know what ? The stuff aint rocket science or nuclear technology. I equate it to being the same as a military reservist. A couple of drills a month and some occasional training. If a shooting war erupts, the enemy will not know the difference if he is killed by a reservist or a 20 year veteran.

Couple of quick points here. One, a military reservist has been through EXACTLY the same basic training, and technical training for that matter, as a full timer. Two, an enemy may not know the difference betweeen being killed by a reservist or 20 year veteran, but who do you think is going to better accomplish that job? Also, who do you want covering your six in a firefight?

[Frank Booth]

I work for a supermarket stocking shelves. I was a manager, but stepped down to persue LE more.

So you wouldn't have a problem when, after the interview, the chief tells you: "You were the most qualified, and I wanted to hire you, but the mayor just told me that we can save money if we bring two new reseves into the program instead of hiring you."

[Watchman]

what kind of *** whipping do you think I'd get if I showed up at a shop, pulled out my gear and started working for free? I hate to even think about it!

I guess that depends on the workload. If you were the only one on shift,work was backed up and you were spread too thin and the pressure was on,having someone help you may not be a bad thing.

Two, an enemy may not know the difference betweeen being killed by a reservist or 20 year veteran, but who do you think is going to better accomplish that job? Also, who do you want covering your six in a firefight?

Dead is dead. There are no varying degrees.

Since the members of various SEAL Teams are few and far between, Ill take anybody that can see well,shoot straight,hard and fast and has balls of rock.

[Southpaw]

The reserves at our SO go to the academy and have the same powers as full-timers. Our department is an at-will department. We are allowed to patrol solo and receive the same on-going training (EVOC, firearms, etc.) Like anything else, there are good ones and not so good ones. Around here it is mostly seen as a way to get on full-time. The pay issue is pretty much moot because I don't think the county (about 85,000) pays over-time - just comp time.

Reserves here are unpaid. The full-timers seem to have nothing but appreciation for us because:

1. we do special events that they don't want to;
2. we fill in so they can go on vacation, take training, or be on sick leave (otherwise it's a no go)

[Vtfuzz]

Originally posted by Frank Booth
Why are you so accepting of reserves if your department is so understaffed????? The answer isn't to get free labor to help out with the low priority stuff, or even, God forbid, take calls as retdet implied.

Because the whole state is extremely low on officers due to not many people wanting to be cops. There are more jobs than applicants, and a good majority of the applicants get weeded out.

Don't forget you work in a much bigger area than most of us!



The answer is to get an ordinance passed that requires the police department to have a minimum staffing, or "X" amount of officers relative to the population or number of calls you get per year. The answer is to HIRE MORE COPS!!

Sure that's the answer, but in most places it won't happen, that's just life....(like the search and seizure post)


If Northwest Airlines were understaffed in the pilot department, would you fly on a 747 piloted by a "reserve" who isn't getting paid and only flies 8 hours per month to "help out" because he likes to wear a uniform and fly an airplane around?

Would I like it, no. The point made is that reserves fill a nitch in "most" departments. They don't replace anyone because if they were not here, there wouldn't be any one else.


And if you tell me that reserves aren't out there to play police, but rather to "give back to the community", maybe you can tell me why you don't see any in plain clothes, unarmed, answering the phone at the desk so another officer could be free to take calls....

Sure this one is easy...we don't have a desk officer. Also we have things called dispatchers that answer phones and call an officer into the office for walk in complaints.

[Don]

You folks that have such an intensive dislike of reserves are only looking at your (probably fairly large) departments. (Not to mention that I KNOW FRANK loves to stir things up.):D

However, in smaller less well funded areas, reserves certainly are welcome by most full timers. Most of us who have lived/worked in these areas, have been around them long enough to know that the TAX BASE just is not there. So do you send an officer by himself to handle a domestic with weapons, or do you just sit on your *** in the area waiting for the next closest guy to drive 50 to 75 miles for back up.

This is something that the city guys just don't have to worry about. But there are one hell of a lot of small towns and rural counties that do.

Oh, and just for the heck of it, I have to tell you Frank, that we used reserve deputies to work the jail, as well as patrol. Now it just doesn't get any more glamorous than that, does it.:p

We had some civilian dispatchers that were reserve deputies. We had some corrections officers that were reserve deputies. EVERY reserve we had were folks who were trying to get on full time. When you have a small agency, those openings come few and far between.

Sure, in a metropolitan area, I can see where you guys, (particularly if you are of the "union" mind set) would actually FEAR the reserves. I'm not at all sure that I blame you. I've never worked for YOUR administrators. OTOH, YOU have never worked for the same administrators I have.

What I'm trying to say is that everybody has had different experiences with where they have worked. This is not a "one size fits all" type thing.

Oh and Frank, if I haven't said it before, WELCOME BACK!:D

[Frank Booth]

Oh and Frank, if I haven't said it before, WELCOME BACK!

Why thank you....

[Chief Wiggum]

On my dept. reserves have no impact on manning levels because they can only ride with a full time officer. It wouldn't matter if we had 20 reserves riding on a particular night. They count as zero when it comes to determining manning levels. They come in handy on calls requiring 2 officers because the 1 full-timer can take it with his "partner", the reserve.

[MK219]

Wiggum has a good point I didn't mention.

Due to the budget they are not hiring any more officers,PERIOD! Which means officers are out there answering calls solo, back-up is probably on the other end of the city. If you da have a reserve riding with you, you got your back-up. Just to repeat a fact about my city. Reserves have gone through the full-time academy. Now we Auxiliary with half the training, do not ride along with the regular. We do not answer calls. And even though the city council want civilian dispatchers, only full-time officers dispatch (reserve fill-in if there are alot of sick calls)


Frank hell yeah I'd have a problem with that. But that's noy the way the system works. In Mass. you take the test. You pass you go on the list. Chief has to hire from that list. If there is any laid off officers in the state they go on the top of the list and hired first.
Once you do get selected, you are a reserve officer. When a full-time officer postion opens, they select one of the reserve to fill the spot. Real simple. they maintian a certian numbers of full-timers, certain numbers of reserve, based on the city population of 85,000+.
Union would like more officers, but as of now it ain't happening.
In fact we just closed to fire stations due to the budget. And the Fire Union is the strongest union the city!
Where we fall into this mess is also simple. WE ASSIST! when time gets for me to get hired, I wait to be called ( I scored 98 on the exam) Since I have been an auxiliary officer, I've gotten to know the officers, station operation, and government officals. WhenI get to the interview stage I have a better chance of getting hired compared to the others wh tied my score mainly because I've been basically doing the job, had the training etc. I then become a reserve and wait for my turn to become fulltime. REAl SIMPLE!

[Frank Booth]

Once you do get selected, you are a reserve officer. When a full-time officer postion opens, they select one of the reserve to fill the spot.

You have to be a RESERVE officer before you can be a regular, sworn and paid officer?!?!?! That's just......weird....

[PeteBroccolo]

The RCMP **used** to have Reserve Constables - WAY before my time, however, so I am not exactly sure what the criteria for them was. It may have been an ancient version of our current Cadet program, in that the Reserves SEEMED to be the first step, besides Bugler, in joining the Force at one time. Either that, or the Reserves came into being during WWI or WWII as back-fill for our guys that joined the Expeditionary Force (I) or Provost Corps (II).

We do have Auxiliary Constables, who are unpaid, partially-trained civilians who are NOT actually members of the RCMP, but must be security cleared, attend a brief preparation course and now must annually qualify with our sidearm and shotgun, and take refresher training on OC, ASP and strong-hand controls alternating years the same as our Regular Members.

Our A/Cst, however, do NOT work alone, and ESPECIALLY not on general patrol. A/Cst MUST work under the direct supervision of a Regular Member, either one-to-one (general patrol) or one R/M for several A/Cst (for crowd control at large events - NOT riotous groups). Further, although they MUST be familiar with our firearms, our A/Cst do NOT carry sidearms and their Peace Officer authority is ONLY when they are on duty with a R/M.

[Mr.Orange]

posted by FrankBooth:You have to be a RESERVE officer before you can be a regular, sworn and paid officer?!?!?! That's just......weird....

In Mass. you dont have to be a reserve to be hired. Most of the time you take the test, score well and hope the department that you picked is hiring. Some departments swear people in as reserves to circumvent the system. Other departments swear in people as cadets and eventually hire them when the city or towns come up with money.


MK, my question to you is, how does the Police union feel about auxiliary officers? I know where I work we (police union) would NEVER allow auxiliaries to work paid details or patrol duties.

[brownca]

I don't know what state some of you are in, but in california all the reserves go to the same training that i did! I am not saying that i think a agency should staff reserves over full time officers. But on the flip side when your fully staffed and holding 15 calls it sure sounds good when a reserve goes 10-8! Our reserves dont do it for the glory. They come out there and put there lives on the line just as much as anyone of you do! and there not even getting paid for it! So all of you that are SO worried about them taking away from you should evaulate the reason you do this job! I know that I dont do it for the money! I just cant see someone just putting on a uniform that will get you killed just to look COOL, and walk around with a gun on!

[hj2930]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
I agree with Frank Booth, they're scabs... If they have full police powers and used as regular police, they are taking away jobs. You have some guy out there doing for free what you do for a living... No amount of rational is going to change that. I think it also reflects on the professionalism of a dept. when they put free labor out there.

I like to weld, but I suspect some of the reserves that are welders would scream bloody murder if I came to their shop and started working for free. I might not take away his job, but it would allow the owner not to hire someone else as his business expands because I'm working for nothing. If you want to play police officer, do it in your back yard with your kids.

My dept. uses them for special events as security guards, directing traffic at those events, etc. They are NEVER used to take police calls.

Jim

I work in health care and we have folks in our clinics that volunteer all the time. As long as they have a valid license/cert. for what they are doing bring them on. I don't feel threatened.

As for reserves working in jobs out of uniform and unarmed it happens all the time. Just because it doesn't happen in your small corner of the world doesn't mean it isn't going on. There are reserves all over the country doing ID work, paper work, taking desk reports and working crime analysis.

And why the need to take cheap shots with cracks about playing cop in the backyard with the kids? I thought this wasn't personal.:rolleyes:

[Deuce]

Reserves in our city work Fri and Sat. 4p to 12a. They basically find the kids partying and take the beer for themselves:( Then if they find a problem or get in the sh*t they call the route man to come bail their hinds out. They receive no formal academy training and are issued our nicer cruisers. They'd be worth something if they took the nuisance reports for me so I can take care of the more pressing issues. To us they're just wannabes driving around looking all pretty.

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Deuce
Reserves in our city work Fri and Sat. 4p to 12a. They basically find the kids partying and take the beer for themselves:( Then if they find a problem or get in the sh*t they call the route man to come bail their hinds out. They receive no formal academy training and are issued our nicer cruisers. They'd be worth something if they took the nuisance reports for me so I can take care of the more pressing issues. To us they're just wannabes driving around looking all pretty.
There seems to be a wide disparity on how reserves are trained, how/where they work, and how they are viewed by full-timers.

From what I can tell around here and other places, PDs seem to have little use/respect for reserves while sheriff's offices seem to use and like them. At our SO we have a lot of space to cover, don't make any money off writing traffic enforcement tickets, and don't make a lot of money. You get "X" amount of dollars and you deal with it. When gas prices went up last year to $1.75/gallon in the middle of the budget year, we were in a world of hurt. When an inmate has to go to the hospital, guess what budget pays for that? If we hadn't made a big drug/cash bust a while back, we'd still be driving 1996-7 vehicles with 190,000 on them.

The municipalities around here use their reserves mostly as "auxiliaries" and even though they are armed, mostly they are used in public events and as some type of PR. This may have something to do with the union - the SO office here is an at-will department.

For liability purposes we go to the academy and are trained (and keep training) like the full timers. Like some full-timers, there are reserves who take training seriously and those who do not. Like some full-timers, there are reserves who just want to carry a badge, gun, and drive fast in cool cars.

After a pretty long and intense FTO program, we are car-certified, assigned to a team, and can patrol solo. The patrol LT puts us on the schedule to work our 24 hours/month and we fill patrol shifts for vacation, training, etc. and are used for special events. We can work as much as we want. Like a lot of places, it is 95% boredom and the ones wanting fast action all the time gradually fade away.

What I can't understand is reserves/auxiliaries not being armed(or an unarmed "security" guard for that matter). :eek: :eek: You couldn't pay me enough to put on the "target" uniform/badge and go stand around someplace that needs security but won't let you carry a firearm.

[diver923]

In Indiana, the only requirement for training, as far as the State is concerned for reserves, is the 40-hour Pre-Basic Course. This is just what it sounds like - 40 hours of instruction. However, our department requires our reserves to attend the same academy we full-timers do. For a full-timer this is between 24-26 weeks...not sure how long it takes reserves. We do not have very many reserves - maybe 40. However, our local SD has closer to 200, and they are required to attend a specific academy which is harder than the state POST academy for full time officers. Both our department, and the local SD issue takehome cars to reserves, once they complete the academy, FTO and probation.
As far as how the reserves are looked at around here, it depends on the department. The SD uses the reserves as a saturation unit, and as a revenue generator. Our department, the reserves are required to work 24 hours a month, as well as several mandatory details (Indy 500, Brickyard 400, F1, Indiana Black Expo, etc.) I have never heard anyone complain about our reserves.

[MK219]

Originally posted by Mr.Orange
MK, my question to you is, how does the Police union feel about auxiliary officers? I know where I work we (police union) would NEVER allow auxiliaries to work paid details or patrol duties.

First thanks for answering Franks question, saved me time.:)
In my City they do hire you as a paid reserve.

As far as the Union, Auxiliary does not do paid details. As you know already Aux Can't get paid. If the full-time go on strike then by State Law we can not do any police activities whatsoever. This includes even the Sunday mourning church crossing.

As for the union's feeling. I can not speak for the union as a whole. The deputy Chief and Chief has a good respect for what we do. Most of the young officer also respect us and we have a good professional relationship with them. The older officers from what I heard CAN'T stand us. (They must be related to Frank:D )
They really don't mind us doing night patrols as long as we don't interefere with their patrols. Our night patrol basically consist of us checking up on municipal property. We drive behind the schools, parks, stadium, lakes, rest stops, and cemeteries. If we see some one we we investigate why they are there. We tend to get teens drinking, couples "getting to know each other", vandals , etc. Stuff the YOU real Cops CAN'T be bothered with. We deal with them. We carry just in case Sh*t does go down. As a rule we don't respond to A&B, DV's, alarms, or general complaints. If dispatch does decide that due to an unusual call volume at a particular time. they have the choice to call us. ONLY BECAUSE WE ARE THERE. Instead of having 5 officers feild 100 calls, they MAY decide to ask us to assist. but this is very rare. We go out for 5-6 hours drive around and go home.
So we realy don't threaten the union. We make a minimum impact by what we do. If anything Auxiliary is purely a Community Relation thing. WE are officers, but in the most boringest sense of the job.


Just for the record former Auxiliary officers from my city have been hired on these department as FULL-Time Officers:
Los Angeles Police Department

Massachusetts State Police

Haverhill Police Department

Merrimac Police Department

Groveland Police Department

Georgetown Police Department

UMASS Lowell Police Department

Essex County Sheriffs Department

Hillsboro County Corrections Department

Pelham NH Police Department

New York City Police Department

Atlanta Police Department

Merrimack College Police

Mass Dept of Corrections

Reading Police Department

Salem Police Department

Peabody Police Department

Methuen Police Department

And many others.

[MK219]

Originally posted by Deuce
Reserves in our city work Fri and Sat. 4p to 12a. They basically find the kids partying and take the beer for themselves:( Then if they find a problem or get in the sh*t they call the route man to come bail their hinds out. They receive no formal academy training and are issued our nicer cruisers. They'd be worth something if they took the nuisance reports for me so I can take care of the more pressing issues. To us they're just wannabes driving around looking all pretty.

Your in MA, why doesn't your department send them to the academy?
I know some department won't let their Aux carry, some won't even give them police powers. But not train them, that just a huge liabilty waiting to happen! Beside by Mass law, anyone out in uniform must be trained and know CPR.:confused:

[docjay]

I just couldnt think of anything funny to say

[Deuce]

Um, maybe it's just my scrap of the state, but our Aux (reserves/specials whatever)do work details. I admit I haven't asked but I'm sure their not doing it for free.:D I have met some pretty dedicated men/women in our dept. but not that dedicated. Why doesn't my dept. send them through an academy? Why isn't there a laugh out loud smilie????? Um honestly I don't know if they would justify a 20 week academy for someone dispersing the occassional disorderly youth. I would think for liability reasons the dept. would but I haven't seen one in any of our academys. Not even in an inservice class.(not even for first responder training) Now I'm not in our training div. so I admit I could have missed something. Which wouldn't suprise me. But I'm willing to plead out if there's a secret Aux academy that I've never heard of;) Sorry if I've offended. I really do need to brush up on my sensitivity training.:D But it still burns my a** when an Aux gets a new car and I'm driving a sled that wouldn't even pass an inspection!:p Sorry, venting again.......

[diver923]

By details, do you mean part-time security gigs? Our guys are allowed to do that, too. As a matter of fact, several reserves I know are "professional reserves", in that they get their powers, equipment, takehome car, etc, and then work 40 hours a week at part-time gigs. Some of them get deals from local apartment complexes for free rent, or reduced rent, so financially, it is a huge advantage for our reserves to donate 24 hours a month to get these advantages.
Many of the reserves on my PD are retired guys, so you gotta figure, not only do they have their pensions rolling in, but they are earning $800+/week to sit in a car and watch movies, getting free rent, a free car, and free gas....hard to see the downside from their perspective. LOL

[Don]

It just blows me away that any department gives take home cars to reserves! There are so many departments that don't have enough cars to go around for their full timers!

And I certainly DON'T agree in giving the new cars to the reserves and letting your regulars drive POS. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

[diver923]

Don - around here, takehomes are the rule, rather than the exception. I can't think of any departments that don't have them. However, our PD and the local SD are the only two I know of that give them to the reserves. They get the older cars, though.

[Deuce]

negative on the security jobs. The aux guys stand out on the street with the rest of us and wave at the happy motorists. This is also usually for the bigger events. Take home car..I would kill to have a car to myself that nooone has left all their garbage in, or polluted with cigar/cigarette smoke. Blows me away too. But then again I work for a dept. that just layed of 20 guys. The rank and file are driving bones and the supervisors have brandy new Excursions.::rolleyes: Let me stop now before I get all worked up.

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Don
It just blows me away that any department gives take home cars to reserves! There are so many departments that don't have enough cars to go around for their full timers! And I certainly DON'T agree in giving the new cars to the reserves and letting your regulars drive POS. That just doesn't make any sense to me.
We have a vehicle for each reserve team (usually 3-4 members) and it is kept at the team leaders house (:D ). We get the hand downs from the full-timers when they get new vehicles. My 1998 with 165,000 is due to be upgraded very soon :cool: If more than one team member wants to work, they go get another team's vehicle or get a pool car.

[MadMax]

In the last 3 years our office has hired 16 new deputies, out of those 15 were former reserves. The one that was not did not cut the mustard in our FTO program, he had been a Deputy in another County for the past 3 years. Our S.O. usually hires out of the Reserve pool.

We are in the same geographic situation that Don described. On average we have 5 Deputies on patrol. If you were to head east from the S.O. you will travel 85 miles to get to the county line. Going west you will travel 45 miles. Going north you will go 45 miles and south 25 miles. Those of course are on our 2 major hwys. If you were to take county roads you will travel close to a 100 miles from the S.O. to the Canadian border. We have a population near 80,000. We do have local PD in 3 small cities, that usually eaach have 3 LEO's on duty, these towns are all within 15 miles of the S.O.

We are not like Chicago, LA, NY etc.... are back up could be an hour away, not 2-3 min.


This here scab spent a year training with FTO's. Completed my check ride 2 weeks ago and can Patrol all by my lonesome. Every Sgt. but 1(he's on vacation) has told me that I can patrol on their shifts anytime I want, "Just show up".

If the general attitude in my S.O. was, Reserves are scabs, then I would not bother volunteering. But our Deputies like the back up.

OBTW, this scab out shot the paid deputies on the range.... Must be that superior Marine weapons training that I received.

:p

[telcom911]

went to the academy, recieve same training as everyone- and am also the data entry/records clerk. Along with entering all the arrest records, I process all citations.

I have worked 107 hours so far this month, and it is only the 17th, thats more then normal, but some guys wanted to use up some comp time (city does not pay overtime) so here I sit.

I am the only officer on duty in the city, nearest back-up is a deputy about 25 minutes away. I take all calls, have full police powers, and all the responsibility of any other officer.

The city only authorizes 8 full time officers for a college town of about 8000, Chief gets around understaffing by using reserves. We have two of us that work almost full time hours, and another half dozen guys that work events. Thw two of us that work regular are paid, the rest are not.

I would love to be full time but in the current political/fiscal climate that is not going to happen.

Most of the reserves are just doing it for the fun, and thats fine with our full timers, they need the help. ME, I do it for the fun and the $, I've got four kids to feed.

All the departments in my area use reserves, We are not taking anyones job, if we were not here, then what we do just wouldn't get done.


I also shot 'Top Gun' last month in quals, and YES, it was that good Marine Corps training that helped me do it also.

[DAG-3710]

I can understand not wanting to be pushed out of work and be replaced by part time workers. But some of you guys get way to caught up in all the Union crap. (yes I really said it, you heared... or read me) Unions had a time and place, but now they're nothing more then dinosaurs. big money hungry political (organized crime) machines. I'm in a union (only because if I wansn't my car would get burned) and all it does is steal $13.50 bi-weekly from my paycheck without asking and keeps the department screw-off from getting shipped off like he should have been 2 years ago.

Your residents want full time weel trained officers, and they will pay for them. If you do your jobs well you have nothing to fear. Part time and reserve officer help to keep cost and such under control, and are great way to get started in police work. I believe we all started somewhere didn't we?

oh, and incase you hadn't noticed "scabs" are what help protect the wounds. work hard, stick together, and you wont feel threatened by part-time officers.

wow that was a LONG rant. sorry.

[PHXCOP]

I was a reserve. 8-98/8-00 Now Im a certified officer. Heres a rundown of a typical day as a reserve in my old dept.

B4 my shift I put my 16 rounds into my Glock, which I purchased myself. The rounds didnt say "reserve" on them. I put my uniform on, which didnt say "reserve" on it either.


I was an unpaid, unappreciated representative of the department. I was scoffed at by other officers from other departmets. I was discluded at functions and meetings. I was treated like the chuds I arrested.

And I was armed, with a blue uniform no different that any certified officer.

When I was approached by a citizen in need, I was an officer- who was expected to do what officers do, and I did.

I got into my patrol car which didnt say reserve. I did what any officer would do I helped, everyday.

I dont know if my situation is typical.

I wasnt playing cop, I was in college and was actually using the time as a reserve because I wanted to have a leg up when I graduated and was put into an academy. But here are some of the things that I noticed along the way.

While I was treated fairly well by my own department, I was looked at like I was just 1/3 cop. I had the pretty uniform and the clean gun, but I was inferior because I lacked, experience, training, knowledge of laws and officer safety. They were totally right.

I like reserves, and I anticipate some undesired feedback. Reserves may take OT away from some officers in smaller agencies, but not mine.

Reserves are in danger on many levels. They lack training in a lot of cases.(laws, safety etc.) While some depts have a well structured reserve program (like my dept). All the heart in the world wont keep reserves safe. Becasue that armed chud you stop who is a two strike loser doesnt have reserve bullets in his gun either. Reserves, arm yourself with training and tell those certified officers to to to hell if they give you grief.

[IndianaDeputy]

I agree with PHXCOP !!!! Reserves are not going away and if we provide good solid training and cooperate as a team we will all be much safer.

The below listed officers were wearing the same uniform as a full-time officer and paid the ultimate price for their "FREE" committment to the community in which they lived in INDIANA. May "GOD BLESS" each and every officer regardless of their title. The risks are the same and I know of no criminal who is going to say "Hey your a Reserve so I won't harm you".


Incident Details
Cause of Death: Struck by vehicle
Date of Incident: Friday, May 28, 1999
Weapon Used: Not available
Suspect Info: No charges filed

Reserve Deputy Miles was killed after being struck by a camper van while talking to a driver on the side of I-65. Deputy Miles was patrolling the highway and stopped to place a police removal notice on an abandoned vehicle. On his return patrol he noticed the driver of the abandoned vehicle attaching a tow rope to it. He stopped again, asked the driver for identification, and was standing next to the door of the vehicle when the camper van struck him. As the vehicle approached Deputy Miles was able to push the driver out of the way, saving his life and causing him to receive only a broken leg. The impact threw him 126 feet down the roadway and he received multiple internal injuries. The driver of the van stopped immediately and offered his assistance.

Reserve Deputy Miles had been an unpaid, volunteer deputy with the agency for twelve years.



Incident Details
Cause of Death: Automobile accident
Date of Incident: Saturday, January 4, 2003
Weapon Used: Not available
Suspect Info: Not available

Reserve Deputy Hobbs succumbed to injuries received two weeks earlier when she and her partner were involved in an on duty automobile accident on U.S. Highway 93. Their Jeep Cherokee patrol car went out of control after hitting a patch of black-ice. The car spun into the oncoming lanes and was broadsided by a pickup truck. Reserve Deputy Hobbs was transported to Kalispell Regional Medical Center where she succumbed to her injuries 12 days later without regaining consciousness.

Reserve Deputy Hobbs had been with the Lake County Sheriff's Office for just over two years and is survived by her parents, and her husband who is also a reserve deputy and detention officer for the same agency.

[Sig220Man]

I should have closed this one early on, when someone opened a similar topic in "Ask a Cop." To prevent people going back and forth, I'm going to shut it down here. It'll still be open in "Ask a Cop" unless someone screws up and forces us to close it there too.