Any Officer, please help.....

[George Khawahie]

[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[jaybeetee]

George, I think you may be out of luck. I know for a fact that you will never be a federal officer of any sort-I'm not real optomistic about a job as a local, either. From what i recall from thirdgen, the details perfectly match what PD's fear-bad judgement coupled with opportunism. I don't mean that to sound overly harsh. If you truly do have a one-time bad on your record, I can say I would think that expungment may be a possibility. Didn't you get stopped recently for an equipment problem of some sort on your camaro? I would check w/an attorney. If you show a connection w/your community (like charity/public service) and a TRUE intent to change (i.e. NO more trouble at all) I would think you might have a fighting chance. Why do you want to be a cop? Patrol cars only have lights on top, you know http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif. Check with a lawyer.

[George Khawahie]

Originally posted by jaybeetee:
Didn't you get stopped recently for an equipment problem of some sort on your camaro?

I got pulled over for window tint and blackouts. Nothing else. This is the only thing on my record. I'll try finding a good attorney....Thanks!


------------------

[JKT]

If you do try for an expungement, make sure your attorney follows it through. In doing background investigtions, I have found charges that were "expunged", but not all of the records were gone. You really do need to follow it up through all stages of the arrest and charges (local, state, etc). I have found things on the local lev but not state, and vice versa. If an expungement is done properly, it won't be found, but it would still be a good idea to list it on an application (just in case it isn't "gone") Just a suggestion.

------------------
Good luck and be safe

Jack

[LeeRoy]

The answer to this is yes and no. First of all 484g/487 is a crime that can be prosecuted as a felony or a misdemeanor. If it was a felony conviction even if you have the record "expunged" you cannot become a police officer. I'll bet though in this case they dropped it to a misdemeanor.

Under 1203.4 of the Penal Code you are entitled to have your case dismissed and be found not guilty if you sucessfully complete your probation. After the case is expunged you can legally say in most situations that you have not been arrested.

The term "expunged" is a misnomer because your conviction that was expunged can still be used as a prior if you get arrested again. Also you are required to disclose the prior arrest if you apply for a public job or license. It also does not allow you to own a firearm if the crime you were convicted of was a felony.

As far as becoming a cop in CA you'll have to wait quite a few years before most agencies will look at you. You'll have the best luck getting hired at an agency with high turn over and or lots of employees.
You can be sure that if you get hired the agency will obtain a copy of the police report and will see you dealt with the investigating officers.

You have an uphill battle so be patient. I would expect this to keep you from getting hired as an officer at least until your late 20's and maybe longer. Don't bother talking to a lawyer about the 1203.4 process until after the 3 years are up. You'll just waste your money. Read up on 1203.4 PC at http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html. Good luck.

[George Khawahie]

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[LeeRoy]

Did you plead to a felony or misdemeanor?
If it was a felony no gun in CA for life per section 12021 of the Penal Code. If it was a misdemeanor you can own a firearm now unless you have a condition of probation that says you may not.

[jaybeetee]

were you convicted of a felony? If I remember correctly, you were. If that's the case, you also likely won't be able to vote, or get liscenced/bonded for anything. You didn't answer: Why do you want to be a cop? I'm idly curious. I've never been unpleasant to you before,and I won't be now, but I am curious.

[George Khawahie]

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[jaybeetee]

Oh. Well, failing a commissioned LE position, you could VERY likely land a consultant job w/a PD. Think about that?

------------------
"and another thing-what's with all the bears around here? It's like a freakin' country bear jambaroo..."

[TC]

Try to have the conviction reduced to a misdemeanor. Once again, it will take the assistance of an attorney.

[Niteshift]

Have any of you clicked on the URL in his profile yet?

[LeeRoy]

Good point TC. Per section 17(b) of the penal code the charge can be dropped to a misdemeanor. You may want to consider petitioning the court for such a drop but only after you have showed the court you are not messing up any longer. After at least a year has passed after time of conviction you may want to consider hiring an attorney to go to bat for you.

[jaybeetee]

Niteshift, I assume you are referencing 'e-grotesque'? That's george. He frequents another site that I go to, thirdgen.org. He's...different.

------------------
"and another thing-what's with all the bears around here? It's like a freakin' country bear jambaroo..."

[George Khawahie]

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[George Khawahie]

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[jaybeetee]

Because FELONY crimes disqualify you automatically (as well as prevent the posession of FIREARMS, usually) from LE jobs. Not always so w/misdemeanors-some LE agencies allow for them. Looks like some of these guys are from Cali. and are shooting ya straight. I'd avoid any more police contact were I you. And think about some community service/volunteer work.

[George Khawahie]

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[TC]

George, you have to take it in baby steps. You can't expect to just have the courts drop a felony from your record. You have to chip away at it like a piece of granite. Your first baby step is to have the convicted charge dropped from a felony to a misdemeanor. After you do that, give the dust from chipping at your granite a chance to settle down a bit. Then start chipping away at the misdemeanor. It's a WHOLE lot easier to get a misdemeanor expunged from your record than it is a felony. We get requests like this all the time at my department. When a person goes to have their record cleaned up, they have to petition the state, the FBI (in your case since it's a felony and was most certainly forwarded to NCIC's files), and the department that filed on you. It's not an easy process by any means and will likely cost you a fairly pretty penny to do it.

[This message has been edited by TC (edited 07-02-2000).]

[Don]

George,

All of my law enforcement time was spent in California. With 4 different agencies. I do not believe that you are going to be able to ever be a sworn officer, at least in California.

I have read all of the above posts, and I could be mistaken, but to the best of MY knowledge I don't think you are going to be able to clean up your record to the point that it won't always "haunt" you. It may not be fair, it may not be "right", but I am afraid that is what you are going to find.

I would strongly urge you to seek some other line of work. I say this because I think you are going to wind up spending a lot of money and having a lot of heartache to no avail.

I know that you said you were 18 when you made your mistake. If you had done it at 17, you would not have this problem. Again, it may not be fair, but then life often isn't fair.

Good luck to ya man, and stay straight. There are other honorable professions that are rewarding!

[George Khawahie]

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[Don]

George,

You'd better believe that one mistake can ruin a person's life. Just ask the pregnant high school girl (and her parents).

Listen guy, you don't have to let this mistake ruin your life. You probably are going to have to revamp your career goals, but that is a long way from having a ruined life. There is some type of an old saying something to the effect of "for every door that is closed, two windows are opened."

There are so many dumb things that a person can do that actually will ruin their whole life. You made a mistake, but not a fatal one. You are obviously trying to get past this, and I wish you nothing but the best.

[TC]

George, no. A BB gun does not meet the legal definition of a "firearm".

[George Khawahie]

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[George Khawahie]

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[LeeRoy]

The court record will indicate that the crime was originally charged as a felony but then dropped to a misdemeanor if you are sucessful.

As far as wasting money I disagree. The brand of being a felon is a harsh one. Even if you are not able to become a cop getting rid of the felony will be money well spent.
A felony will keep you from getting many jobs. If you go to work for some company that does government work you might end up needing a security clearance. A felony conviction will preclude you from ever getting a clearance. The 1203.4 PC proceeding (dismissal case after completion of probation) can be accomplished without an attorney. The process of getting the matter dropped to a misdemeanor could be accomplished without an attorney but I would suggest at least consulting one about the proper procedure. It may even be worth having the attorney write the motion for you requesting the case be dropped to a misdemeanor.

This mistake will haunt you for a long time but you can overcome it. I have to disagree with Don though. I have a friend who when he was 19 he was arrested after evading police in a high speed pursuit. He cleaned up his act and moved on with his life. He tried to get hired on as an officer but his past arrest haunted him. He eventually put himself into a police academy as a student and he was hired out of the academy at age 32. Even then he went to a police department with a very poor reputation and even worse pay. All the while he worked hard and lateraled to a better paying agency. His mistake haunted him for almost 15 years but eventually he was able to become an officer.

If you want the court to drop the case to a misdemeanor you have to live an exemplary life. If you have restitution and fines to pay then pay them early. If you have community service to do, do it quickly and do it well. If you do community service for an organization get a manager to write a letter on your behalf. Go to school and get good grades and maybe get a professor to write a letter on your behalf. Has the victim computer company been paid full restitution? If not get it done. Write an apology letter to the company president (don't as for anything now from them).

You messed up but like TC said you can chip away at the mountain and end up with a small stone to deal with. The stone will never go away completely but at least you can move it or carry it in your pocket.

As far as getting and keeping a job be truthful up front about your past. The economy is good and there are jobs out there for you. I don't see law enforcement in the near future but it can be in your distant future if you take some of the advice we've given. Nothing will happen overnight. Good luck to you.

One other thing. What in the heck to do you need a BB gun for? Such a device will only cause you problems. Get rid of it and think of getting rid of your Iroc. Buy a nice granny car. Fast cars will only get you in trouble. You need to live your life like a square for a while if you want to lose that brand of being a felon. If you ever want an inkling of chance of being a cop you'll have to be a square for a lot longer.

[This message has been edited by LeeRoy (edited 07-03-2000).]

[George Khawahie]

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[Don]

LeeRoy,

From Boy George's Posts:

George Khawahie
Junior Member posted 07-03-2000 10:36 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
People have mentioned that you can get a medical waiver for window tint?

George Khawahie
Junior Member posted 07-03-2000 11:07 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes they would, however, the reason I want window tint is to prevent sunfade. I have a 88 Camaro IROC Convertible that I want to keep in better condition. I had tint previously but I got a fix it ticket for it.


My posting (and belief about this situation) was based on the crime committed. There is quite a bit of difference between evading and larceny.

Also in looking at some of George's posts, ie; the bb gun question and now his new topic of wanting to get by with breaking the law on window tinting by lying about some type of physical condition tells me that I sure as hell would not want him for a partner, now, or anytime in the future.

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt over his one arrest, but realistically how many arrestees do you know that were busted "their first time out". The nature of his posts seem to be showing his true character.

Shoot, I don't care - let him spend his money. http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Stay safe out there,
6P1 (retired)

[This message has been edited by Don (edited 07-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Don (edited 07-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Don (edited 07-03-2000).]

[LeeRoy]

Good points Don. I hadn't seen his earlier posts either. Odds are against him even if he follows through with my advice. Think of the rehabilitative effect of my advice if he actually follows it? Even if he doesn't become a cop we'll get him to get in the habit of being a model citizen.

Also I thought about it and its unusual for a first offense in CA to lead to a felony especially for fraud crimes.

George, get rid of the IROC along with the BB gun. At your age it will just cause you "issues." Good luck.

[This message has been edited by LeeRoy (edited 07-03-2000).]

[CustomsCop]

I suggest you look for another line of work. The fact that you are a convicted felon will likely never go away, and with liability and corruption concerns being what they are, you'll always take the hit on a background investigation. Yes, mistakes ruin lives - a felony conviction demonstrates intent and knowingly doing wrong.

[George Khawahie]

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[LeeRoy]

Moral turpitude crimes are things like sex crimes, perjury, fraud and theft crimes. Crimes that involve dishonesty or screwed up morals.

[Lenny]

Originally posted by Niteshift:
Have any of you clicked on the URL in his profile yet?

Yea, I want to partner with this jerk! I bet we could have all kinds of fun on the night shift. http://www.officer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif



[This message has been edited by Lenny (edited 07-08-2000).]

[kd5hqd]

Hey George, if you're still out there, let us know how you are doing!! I for one would love to hear any progress you've made in getting that mess cleared up. I too wish absolutely nothing for you except the very best of luck and times as they come!!!


Kyle

[George Khawahie]

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: George Khawahie ]

[Monty Ealerman]

George:

You might start by making a personal commitment to being scrupulously honest about everything.

From your post in response to the questions about your URL:

I'm not into that website. Its just something I have that draws huge amount of traffic that I used to redirect vistors to other sites of mine.

This doesn't quite tell the whole story, does it?

In fact, all those different domain names on your page, other than the one that links to the Camaro site, send the unsuspecting person to your VStore page.

You're using a bait and switch tactic. You present a link to persons who have a certain interest, and when they click on it, they get presented with an opportunity to buy something you get a commission on, instead of being presented with something having to do with what they were interested in.

At the bottom of the web page that is selling a few peices of electronic gear is the phrase "Fulfillment by VStore".

As you know, you can set up a VStore page for free on VStore, select your own subset of their product line, and write your own prose to advertise it. Any purchases that go through your website result in a commission being paid to you. The credit card processing is handled by VStore.

Of course, all the VStore stuff would be in the address bar on the browser, and that would let the prospective purchaser know about VStore.com, which you don't want, because then the prospective purchaser could then go to VStore.com, see the whole store, and might not go through your page to buy something even if it was something on your VStore page. So you decided to buy your own domain names and route them all to your VStore page. That way, no-one sees the VStore name except in the "Fulfillment by VStore" phrase.

That's not atrociously dishonest, but it's not exemplary either.

As for your legal concerns, I think after you've decided to be scrupulously honest, you might reflect on your characterization of your credit card fraud actions as "a stupid mistake".

If you are describing what you did as a life tactic, you are being accurate in calling it stupid. It's stupid to commit fraud. But is it really accurate to call something a "mistake", if you did it deliberately? It's a mistake in the strategic or tactical sense, in that it isn't sound as a strategy or tactic. But that is a sidelight.

If you want to admit to foolishness, the way you said it is fine. The focus is on the damage to you.

If you want to be neutral about the distinction between the damage to you, and the damage to others, you could say you did something you should not have done.

If you want to acknowledge that what you did harmed others, which is really why you should not have done it, you would have to say that you did something wrong.

I've heard many persons who have committed crimes call them "mistakes", and it has the hollow ring of imperfect contrition to me.

Theft is wrongfully depriving your fellow man of what is rightfully his. It's not just stupid to be a theft offender; it's wrong. It's stupid because of the consequences to you. It's wrong because of the consequences to others.

Imperfect contrition is better than no contrition at all, but it's not quite the real thing.

Are you sorry for doing things wrong that you didn't get caught for?

What's important is to recognize is that what you did was not only a "stupid mistake", because of the consequences to you, but also was a doing of wrong, because of the consequences to someone else.

Theft is a "moral turpitude" crime, because it deliberately damages others. It overvalues you, and undervalues them.

Regarding your police officer aspirations:

It doesn't make sense for a person who is new to obeying the law to be one to enforce it. That's why you'll need some time before anyone is willing to put that much trust in you.

On the other hand, often the most grateful person is the one who has been forgiven the most (paraphrasing from the New Testament). You're not the most dishonest person, but some forgiveness has been extended to you, and you could grow into being one of the most honest persons around.

Your personal character, which I realize you didn't ask about, is more important than clearing the records. If you clear your personal character first, the clearing of the records about you will be the natural next step.

In my opinion, the other respondents have given you very good advice about your situation. In particular, I echo the statement to the effect that you will have to recognize that the derogatory information is propagated to agencies at local, state, and federal levels, and must be cleared at all 3 levels before the records can really be considered clear.

To expunge records that present a truthful and accurate impression is not correct. The court has to be presented with a complaint alleging that records being kept by the government about you present an untruthful and inaccurate impression. If the goverment sees fit to do so, it may present evidence to the contrary. If the court is satisfied that the allegations in the complaint are correct, it will order the state to stop presenting the inaccurate and untruthful unfavorable impression.

The records will be sealed by the court, and government agencies will be ordered to destroy their copies of them. The court process has to happen at both state and federal levels. In general, if the crime is a state crime, the federal court will "rubber stamp" the finding of the state court, but is not obligated to do that, and may not, if the federal government or other states have had problems with you. Once the records are sealed and the orders to destroy the copies are issued and duly carried out, the records will no longer be available to private concerns, or to ordinary inquiries of law enforcement agencies.

The fact of the existence of sealed records will continue to be available to the court, and in certain situations, to certain law enforcement agencies, for their review, but not for them to publish, even amongst themselves. The court can unseal the records if you commit an offense in the future.

Regardless of what happens to the records, you will have to talk about this at a background screening interview if you are being considered for law enforcement work. At that interview, character is what counts most, but that case may disqualify you no matter what, regardless of the disposition.

If you were the examiner, how would you feel about an applicant who had done something like that in the last 10 years?

I hope things work out for the best for you, and I commend you for having the desire to serve the public as a police officer.

Sincerely,

Monty

[This message has been edited by Monty Ealerman (edited 11-29-2000).]